I think KDE 4.3.2 even starts-up faster than Gnome... [Archive]

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 06:34 PM

NoaHall

October 11th, 2009, 06:37 PM

Stop making threads about KDE.

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 06:50 PM

Stop making threads about KDE.

Well I'm afraid there's a limit to how long you can hold back the truth ^_^

EDIT -- and I'm sorry I don't mean to be a bore it's just, it can be frustrating how much it gets ignored and how much bad press it gets ._. It was only supposed to be an observation anyway as I really did think KDE was slower until I gave it another go :)

With every release of KDE 4.x it seems more and more silly to ignore it.

Falc7

October 11th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Mine loads slower than gnome :( but i still use kde more

baskar007

October 11th, 2009, 06:58 PM

Tipped OuT

October 11th, 2009, 07:04 PM

KDE have full bag of buggy. i have gnome and kde installed ubuntu 9.04. My expren... is KDe loads slower then gnome, (also KDE very very slow in LOgout) but i am still using kde. i dont know why?

Looks good?

OpenGuard

October 11th, 2009, 07:06 PM

15 seconds from cold-boot and I'm ready to work ( system fully loaded ) - I don't think that KDE can beat that.

NoaHall

October 11th, 2009, 07:08 PM

Installed KDE again yesterday to check it was just how I remembered it, and yep, it sucked.

Tipped OuT

October 11th, 2009, 07:11 PM

I really don't like the fact that KDE 4 uses Fences. I really would just like a normal desktop with icons that are not in a little box.

baskar007

October 11th, 2009, 07:12 PM

Looks good?
ya i like its UI.
and speed of lanching application's

kc3

October 11th, 2009, 07:13 PM

idk, I still think Gnome is faster loading than KDE, not that it matters, neither of'm can beat WindowMaker :D haha

baskar007

October 11th, 2009, 07:13 PM

Any one known what is the problem is this?

My KDE logout takes 1min for displaying boot screen:confused:.

fela

October 11th, 2009, 07:16 PM

What do you think? Has anyone tried this? I find the boot into KDE significantly faster and more responsive than the boot into Gnome, even with compositing enabled. I then find Qt and maybe even GTK apps load faster (I haven't tried these fully yet).

It even fired up Amarok and Gnome-DO and was STILL faster! lol

What do you think? Has anyone else seen the 2 to compare?

Hoppi :)

The debian team apparently hasn't yet approved 4.3.2 for 'testing' yet... :(

Although I use 4.3.1 and it starts up fast enough - about as fast as XP on this machine, with compositing enabled, and Amarok, Konqueror, Kmail and a couple konsoles in autostart (well, remember-session). That's quite a feat actually...the XP installation is about 3 days old and all it loads is AVG antivirus....now windows really does suck, in almost every way. Damn, I came to that conclusion AGAIN! Maybe it is actually RIGHT! ](*,)

Screwdriver0815

October 11th, 2009, 07:22 PM

@Hoppi: no matter what the "shut up and stop talking about KDE" people (I wanted to write "trolls" but its maybe a little bit harsh) say:

I have had the same impression. KDE 4.3.2 is also stable like a rock. its a huge step forward compared to KDE 4.2 and this was good too.

@tipped out:

I really don't like the fact that KDE 4 uses Fences. I really would just like a normal desktop with icons that are not in a little box.

no problem at all. right-click in the desktop --> "desktop preferences" and then choose "folder view" as type for the desktop activity. Voila: normal desktop enabled. After that you can remove the widget "folder view" which is the "little box" which contains the folders of the desktop.
maybe the english titles/names of these preferences are different to my descrition because I have translated it from german

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 07:25 PM

Installed KDE again yesterday to check it was just how I remembered it, and yep, it sucked.

I wish I understood the way you see this, but we will simply HAVE to agree to disagree!

NoaHall

October 11th, 2009, 07:28 PM

Warpnow

October 11th, 2009, 07:35 PM

I can barely count to 1 before gnome is loaded GDM so I doubt its faster, and if it is, its not too relevent to me.

*snip*

RiceMonster

October 11th, 2009, 07:36 PM

Stop trolling.

For the love of God, he's not trolling. I swear, people on here have no idea how to spot a troll.

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 07:38 PM

@Hoppi: no matter what the "shut up and stop talking about KDE" people (I wanted to write "trolls" but its maybe a little bit harsh) say:

I have had the same impression. KDE 4.3.2 is also stable like a rock. its a huge step forward compared to KDE 4.2 and this was good too.

Yeah exactly, I get very confused by the anti-KDE crowd. It's probably just because a) people do often choose Linux to get AWAY from Windows and KDE does bear a resemblance to it b) Canonical's OS range is still Gnome-focused c) KDE was looking a bit rough around the edges in it's earlier 4.x releases and d) It's still lacking in a few bits and bobs which Gnome has due to 4.x still being very new, these will come within the next couple of main releases.

Fundamentally though KDE 4 is from the ground up an incredibly well-designed and attractive desktop. Gnome 3 really does have some serious competition on it's hands.

praveesh

October 11th, 2009, 07:38 PM

I haven't tried 4.3.2 , but 4.3.1 doesn't load faster than Gnome. But it loads the applications faster . Can we expect performance improvements between maintainance releases? I think many of the people who posted in this thread are using kde4.2 . The packages for jaunty in the official repo are 4.2's . I have to agree that the 4.3.x release is a huge improvement over 4.2.x

OpenGuard

October 11th, 2009, 07:39 PM

For the love of God, he's not trolling. I swear, people on here have no idea how to spot a troll.

I wouldn't do that.

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 07:40 PM

But seriously, come on. It's slow and bloated. It's like a car filled with weights, so heavy it can't drive straight or get good speed. The only good thing about it is that it's pretty by default. That's it.

But we've covered this, I find it to be VERY fast, I find it to start applications fast, react fast, load up fast... and I don't even have a fast machine! Many other people find this too and have said it here on the forums.

Just because something looks like it's going to be slow based on how much it appears to be doing, it doesn't mean that it is.

I haven't tried 4.3.2 , but 4.3.1 doesn't load faster than Gnome. But it loads the applications faster . Can we expect performance improvements between maintainance releases? I think many of the people who posted in this thread are using kde4.2 . The packages for jaunty in the official repo are 4.2's . I have to agree that the 4.3.x release is a huge improvement over 4.2.x

Yeah I didn't really like 4.2 that much, I found the earlier 4.x releases were a bit too buggy for my liking and to be honest back then I didn't know what they had planned. Also with a bit of experience you come to kind of "read" projects better, and I had no idea it was going to progress and develop as fast as it has.

praveesh

October 11th, 2009, 07:46 PM

It's amazing that the kde has all the bells and whistles the vista has , yet it is much faster.

Screwdriver0815

October 11th, 2009, 07:59 PM

Yeah exactly, I get very confused by the anti-KDE crowd. It's probably just because a) people do often choose Linux to get AWAY from Windows and KDE does bear a resemblance to it b) Canonical's OS range is still Gnome-focused c) KDE was looking a bit rough around the edges in it's earlier 4.x releases and d) It's still lacking in a few bits and bobs which Gnome has due to 4.x still being very new, these will come within the next couple of main releases.

Fundamentally though KDE 4 is from the ground up an incredibly well-designed and attractive desktop. Gnome 3 really does have some serious competition on it's hands.

I would like to add another reason for the anti-KDE behaviour: its some kind like "the system, I have is the best and no-one else has a better one. If someone says that something is better than my stuff, I'll bash it."
Like, you go to a windowsforum and troll around with Linux... guess what happens... the same I think. Also the same as when someone praises windows over here (but I am guilty for bashing then too). :D

I don't know if I should like Gnome 3. I didn't test it but the pics and descriptions I saw make a little bit strange impressions to me. But anyway, I am open-minded and I also believe in progress. Thats why I will test Gnome 3 and see... when I get the chance to do so.

I haven't tried 4.3.2 , but 4.3.1 doesn't load faster than Gnome. But it loads the applications faster . Can we expect performance improvements between maintainance releases? I think many of the people who posted in this thread are using kde4.2 . The packages for jaunty in the official repo are 4.2's . I have to agree that the 4.3.x release is a huge improvement over 4.2.x
if you get your hands on KDE 4.3.2 you will see another huge step forward.
So 4.3.1 already was great, 4.3.2 is even greater :D

TheNessus

October 11th, 2009, 08:08 PM

I'd be happy to use KDE had it not force me to have a zillions programs I don't use.

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 08:13 PM

I don't know if I should like Gnome 3. I didn't test it but the pics and descriptions I saw make a little bit strange impressions to me. But anyway, I am open-minded and I also believe in progress. Thats why I will test Gnome 3 and see... when I get the chance to do so.

Yeah Gnome Shell isn't too bad, I dunno I mean it has some good ideas but it needs slightly better implementation. I also hope that more work is planned on GTK and the backend code, and also that it will have good support for people who can't or don't want to run compositing and stuff.

I mean, it's not that I hate Gnome, I just think it could do with a bit more development or possibly even an overhaul if it wants to look totally modern.

if you get your hands on KDE 4.3.2 you will see another huge step forward.
So 4.3.1 already was great, 4.3.2 is even greater :D

Yeah I did think it felt faster and more polished than 4.3. It truly is staggering the speed at which it's improving :)

OpenGuard

October 11th, 2009, 08:18 PM

I'd be happy to use KDE had it not force me to have a zillions programs I don't use.

KDE by itself is pretty clean - zillions of programs comes with kubuntu-desktop ( which is Ubuntu's job, not KDE's ).

TheNessus

October 11th, 2009, 08:20 PM

KDE by itself is pretty clean - zillions of programs comes with kubuntu-desktop ( which is Ubuntu's job, not KDE's ).
Yes, well. I learned that only after I got KDE on my ubuntu as it indeed installed kubuntu-desktop. Where and how could I get just KDE?

Screwdriver0815

October 11th, 2009, 08:26 PM

I'd be happy to use KDE had it not force me to have a zillions programs I don't use.
and these programs are....?

Yeah Gnome Shell isn't too bad, I dunno I mean it has some good ideas but it needs slightly better implementation. I also hope that more work is planned on GTK and the backend code, and also that it will have good support for people who can't or don't want to run compositing and stuff.

I mean, it's not that I hate Gnome, I just think it could do with a bit more development or possibly even an overhaul if it wants to look totally modern.

I also don't hate Gnome (why should I? I have spent 50 euros on donations to them, as well as to KDE).
The strange thing about it is: since I use KDE, Gnome looks a little bit clunky to me. The style of the icons and also the window-borders and so on. I don't know why.
As I saw Gnome shell the first time, I saw this "clunkyness" again. But maybe (and I am confident that this will happen) the Gnome guys do some optical tuning too.
What confuses me, is this "Zeitgeist" stuff. As far as I understood, this is a search functionality which adopts to the human behaviour of remembering things not by date but by situations or something.
Now, as I have tuned my working style to the computer-requirements ("where is it stored, when was it changed the last time?"), I feel a bit confused: will I be able to adopt to the "Zeitgeist"?

But anyway, maybe I switch to KDE completly because all my favourite apps are KDE-stuff. One exception: Amarok sucks, Rhythmbox FTW! :D

NCLI

October 11th, 2009, 08:36 PM

I think there's a package called kubuntu-minimal. Not on Ubuntu right now so I can't check, but it's called something like that.

Tipped OuT

October 11th, 2009, 08:36 PM

@tipped out:

no problem at all. right-click in the desktop --> "desktop preferences" and then choose "folder view" as type for the desktop activity. Voila: normal desktop enabled. After that you can remove the widget "folder view" which is the "little box" which contains the folders of the desktop.
maybe the english titles/names of these preferences are different to my descrition because I have translated it from german

Oh... thank you very much screwdriver. I oh you one.

KiwiNZ

October 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 08:39 PM

and these programs are....?

I also don't hate Gnome (why should I? I have spent 50 euros on donations to them, as well as to KDE).
The strange thing about it is: since I use KDE, Gnome looks a little bit clunky to me. The style of the icons and also the window-borders and so on. I don't know why.
As I saw Gnome shell the first time, I saw this "clunkyness" again. But maybe (and I am confident that this will happen) the Gnome guys do some optical tuning too.
What confuses me, is this "Zeitgeist" stuff. As far as I understood, this is a search functionality which adopts to the human behaviour of remembering things not by date but by situations or something.
Now, as I have tuned my working style to the computer-requirements ("where is it stored, when was it changed the last time?"), I feel a bit confused: will I be able to adopt to the "Zeitgeist"?

But anyway, maybe I switch to KDE completly because all my favourite apps are KDE-stuff. One exception: Amarok sucks, Rhythmbox FTW! :D

Haha I think that's a little harsh - Amarok is gradually getting there but yeah I think it could do with some interface tweaks and maybe an option to revert quickly back to the "classic" style of 1.x.

I find Gnome clunky too - KDE kinda "flows". It is hard to explain though yeah.

To be honest though I think all this aside, the situation will sort itself out. If KDE is the superior desktop, it will eventually prove itself as such, and if Gnome is, it will as well. If Ubuntu decides not to adopt KDE as it's most supported GUI even if it is superior, then another distribution such as openSUSE or a newcomer which DOES support it may take the lead. I think at the end of the day, survival of the fittest shall prevail! :)

TheNessus

October 11th, 2009, 08:43 PM

I think there's a package called kubuntu-minimal. Not on Ubuntu right now so I can't check, but it's called something like that.
ok, spanks

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 08:43 PM

What ever windows manager works best for a particular user then that is great .

Its all about .....wait for it......... CHOICE :)

So if you have tried KDE and didn't like it fine , don't use it, and the same with Gnome or any of the other choices. That is what choice is all about . What works for you, and its neither right nor wrong.

Yeah I know, it's just sometimes you want some actual proof of people's negative observations ._. Usually people bash KDE over and over until you actually ask for proof or some evidence, at which point they go completely silent.

KiwiNZ

October 11th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Yeah I know, it's just sometimes you want some actual proof of people's negative observations ._. Usually people bash KDE over and over until you actually ask for proof or some evidence, at which point they go completely silent.

There are many Leemings that like to bash. Use what works for you.

isaacj87

October 11th, 2009, 08:58 PM

I usually sit in the background and watch threads about KDE and it never ceases to amaze me. Even after the redemption that is KDE 4.3 was released, people still find ways to bad mouth KDE. I think it's quite unfair.

I've been using Linux for a couple years now and I do enjoy the simplicity of Gnome, but I love the amazing tenacity and dedication the KDE team has for its baby. That said, KDE 4.0, 4.1 and 4.2 are a bit rough around the edges, but the potential can be clearly seen. KDE 4.3 is definitely a milestone in KDE history. Whether you agree or disagree with the team's direction, you can't deny their hardwork.

But to be honest, I don't think KDE 4.3.2 starts up faster than Gnome. I think that KDE is now on a level playing field with Gnome in terms of stability. It runs smoothly with little RAM usage on my netbook. Futhermore, the features found in KDE surpass Gnome and you can't deny the integration.

I think it's a shame that open-source users would bash open-source products.

Screwdriver0815

October 11th, 2009, 09:05 PM

Haha I think that's a little harsh - Amarok is gradually getting there but yeah I think it could do with some interface tweaks and maybe an option to revert quickly back to the "classic" style of 1.x.

I find Gnome clunky too - KDE kinda "flows". It is hard to explain though yeah.

To be honest though I think all this aside, the situation will sort itself out. If KDE is the superior desktop, it will eventually prove itself as such, and if Gnome is, it will as well. If Ubuntu decides not to adopt KDE as it's most supported GUI even if it is superior, then another distribution such as openSUSE or a newcomer which DOES support it may take the lead. I think at the end of the day, survival of the fittest shall prevail! :)
yeah, maybe I am a bit to hard to the Amarok guys. But for me the whole surface just sucks. Anyway... its just an app and its all about choice and taste.

As KiwiNZ said, its all about choice. And thats the great thing about FOSS: you can use whatever you want. I do so: one KDE desktop, one Gnome. Both work for me.
I don't think it is about winning or something. There are users who like KDE and others who like Gnome and others who like different DE's. Choice is the magical word. :D
But as you said, Hoppi, it makes me kind of sad too, when people say "KDE sucks" and they never have used it longer than for an hour or so. Or to top it all, they maybe never have used it at all and just know it from pictures.
Because this is really unfair to the developers of KDE and all related applications. They are doing a really good job and they deserve some respect for that.

anyway, KDE 4.3.2 is great and I think the KDE guys have a really good and high development speed and also the right concept.

Tipped OuT

October 11th, 2009, 09:07 PM

What ever windows manager works best for a particular user then that is great .

Its all about .....wait for it......... CHOICE :)

So if you have tried KDE and didn't like it fine , don't use it, and the same with Gnome or any of the other choices. That is what choice is all about . What works for you, and its neither right nor wrong.

I suggest you copy and paste that some where for later. Another WM bashing thread will open up, and you'll need to post that again, until people get the message. ;)

Dharmachakra

October 11th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Hmm... I'm tempted to try it out. I haven't really used KDE4 at all. I could use Basket in it's own environment...

Regenweald

October 11th, 2009, 09:21 PM

EDIT -- and I'm sorry I don't mean to be a bore it's just, it can be frustrating how much it gets ignored and how much bad press it gets ._. It was only supposed to be an observation anyway as I really did think KDE was slower until I gave it another go :)

With every release of KDE 4.x it seems more and more silly to ignore it.

So the plan is to annoy everyone into using KDE hoppi ? KDE is a great environment. Allow everyone to make their own choice. These masked KDE vs Gnome threads achieve nothing much.

fela

October 11th, 2009, 09:23 PM

Installed KDE again yesterday to check it was just how I remembered it, and yep, it sucked.

That's what I thought until 4.2 was released.

Boom!!!

October 11th, 2009, 09:25 PM

fela

October 11th, 2009, 09:28 PM

But seriously, come on. It's slow and bloated. It's like a car filled with weights, so heavy it can't drive straight or get good speed. The only good thing about it is that it's pretty by default. That's it.

If that were the truth I wouldn't be using it, as I really couldn't give a damn about looks to be honest, as long as I can get the job done. What I find/like about KDE is that it has so many things that you can configure just to your way, almost like conky or something. I'm the type that likes to have complete control over his system, and that's why I use Linux.

As for looks, as I said I don't care about them. The fact that KDE might be 'pretty' for some people by default, means nothing to me, but I still love the desktop environment.

Boom!!!

October 11th, 2009, 09:29 PM

fela

October 11th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Gnome 3 really does have some serious competition on it's hands.

Gnome 3 is a joke! I don't know how they've managed to suffocate such a nice, simnple, fast, good, desktop environment into a bloated mass that depends on OpenGL to minimize a window...maybe this is what the gnome devs were saving all their 'innovation' for! :lolflag:

Regenweald

October 11th, 2009, 09:32 PM

I have been saying this for the last week. but this is a Gnome-sentric forum dude nobody wants to hear it.

This is the problem with the FOSS world in general, Someone makes a choice then needs to have their choice validated by everyone else choosing what they did then saying how awesome it is.

I use Ubuntu ! why doesn't everyone else ?!
I think Arch is better! you should too!
KDE looks great! everyone should use it!
Arrgh!! I use linux! everyone else should to!!

Make your choice, live your life, there's more important decisions to be made guys.

KiwiNZ

October 11th, 2009, 09:47 PM

I have been saying this for the last week. but this is a Gnome-sentric forum dude nobody wants to hear it.

You make the decision for so many members ? :confused:

RiceMonster

October 11th, 2009, 09:48 PM

I have been saying this for the last week. but this is a Gnome-sentric forum dude nobody wants to hear it.

No it isn't. This forum supports Kubuntu and Xubuntu as well. People are free to talk about different DEs, WMs and operating systems in the community cafe if they want as well. What kind of a forum would this be if there was rules about which software we were allowed to talk about?

This is the problem with the FOSS world in general, Someone makes a choice then needs to have their choice validated by everyone else choosing what they did then saying how awesome it is.

I use Ubuntu ! why doesn't everyone else ?!
I think Arch is better! you should too!
KDE looks great! everyone should use it!
Arrgh!! I use linux! everyone else should to!!

Make your choice, live your life, there's more important decisions to be made guys.

+9001

NormanFLinux

October 11th, 2009, 09:50 PM

Kubuntu Netbook Edition reboots in under 2 minutes. 60 seconds to shut down and 60 seconds to reboot to the desktop.

Screwdriver0815

October 11th, 2009, 10:03 PM

Further more they seems to be something wrong with kde, how can it boot so fast to the desktop, it's just not right.
:confused:

This new speed seems to have come in the latest update. because previously it was slower than Gnome for me.
guess what KDE 4.3.2 is? Maybe the latest update? :D

@Regenwald: I don't think that hoppi wanted to start a new KDE vs Gnome thing. He wanted to share some experiences I think. When it is an impression to you that he wanted to start Gnome vs KDE, then its a kind of interpretation on your side I think.
additionally its not just about validating a choice. Its also about "I use xyz, I don't want to hear about alternatives because otherwise I think to myself that I was stupid to fiddle around with things while the alternative stuff just works -- so no one wants to hear that". Its the same level of craziness in my eyes.

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 10:05 PM

I have been saying this for the last week. but this is a Gnome-sentric forum dude nobody wants to hear it.

I think there is some truth in that, mainly because Ubuntu, as much as people pretend Kubuntu and that get as much attention, is a Gnome-centric distribution.

I mean, there are a lot of KDE supporters on here too, I know that, but we seem to always be fighting waves of blunt negativity! lol

And I know it's about choice, and I know I was probably igniting the KDE Vs Gnome thing by comparing KDEs start-up to Gnome is particular as opposed to just making a general statement about it's speed.

The reason I said it with such enthusiasm though was because I really thought that KDE was significantly slower to boot, to load applications and to react, as that's what a lot of people on here seem to imply with great confidence. And then you actually sit down and use it and find it's very fast and responsive. I was just amazed by that and didn't expect it :)

MickS

October 11th, 2009, 10:06 PM

I have no idea if KDE boots faster, I like KDE too much now to bother with Gnome.

Mick

hoppipolla

October 11th, 2009, 11:17 PM

I have no idea if KDE boots faster, I like KDE too much now to bother with Gnome.

Mick

heh, yeah I'd be on KDE too but for some reason sound on Karmic seems to work better in Gnome at the moment... I think the sound management tools are better on Gnome on Ubuntu.

madjr

October 11th, 2009, 11:28 PM

I really don't like the fact that KDE 4 uses Fences. I really would just like a normal desktop with icons that are not in a little box.

this is specially why i use kde4 now (i too didn;t know how to use it at first)

with a messy desktop like gnome's:

http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/my-desktop.jpg

you can't use widgets well and i end up hating all the clutter + mounted usb drive and CDs show up on top of other icons >.<

right now on my kde i have over 100 icons on the desktop folder view "aka what u call fence" and it looks incredibly clean + all my plasmoids fit perfectly

also in windows i hate the clutter, win7 is the same mess, thanks kde for this :guitar:

fela

October 11th, 2009, 11:31 PM

Haha I think that's a little harsh - Amarok is gradually getting there but yeah I think it could do with some interface tweaks and maybe an option to revert quickly back to the "classic" style of 1.x.

I couldn't care less about the interface - the only thing that bothers me about both amaroks is that at the start of alot of automatic song changes, the first couple of seconds are missed which is, as you can imagine, incredibly annoying.

I find Gnome clunky too - KDE kinda "flows". It is hard to explain though yeah.

I like both DEs tbh...I think they both kinda "flow" ;) Just KDE beats gnome's *** on configurability and looks, and IMO QT4 > GTK2.

To be honest though I think all this aside, the situation will sort itself out. If KDE is the superior desktop, it will eventually prove itself as such, and if Gnome is, it will as well.

In my opinion both GNOME and KDE are brilliant - but they're for different purposes. If you want a brilliantly stable, speedy and easy to use desktop environment then I have to say GNOME wins, sometimes by a long shot. But if you want bling, configurability, lots of features, a good compositor (kwin + xrender) and aren't on a mission-critical system then you should use KDE. Sometimes I do get frustrated at KDE and want back GNOME's simplicity and (yes) responsiveness, but I love KDE's configurability.

If Ubuntu decides not to adopt KDE as it's most supported GUI even if it is superior, then another distribution such as openSUSE or a newcomer which DOES support it may take the lead. I think at the end of the day, survival of the fittest shall prevail! :)

OpenSuSE, UGH!!!! I had such a nasty experience with that...ugh...

About the 'survival of the fittest' - again, KDE and GNOME will always coexist and will always be popular - with different people. There is a reason PIXAR use Gnome, but there is a reason KDE exists. At least I think pixar use gnome...

Tipped OuT

October 11th, 2009, 11:36 PM

this is specially why i use kde4 now (i too didn;t know how to use it at first)

with a messy desktop like gnome's:

you can't use widgets well and i end up hating all the clutter + mounted usb drive and CDs show up on top of other icons >.<

right now on my kde i have over 100 icons on the desktop folder view "aka what u call fence" and it looks incredibly clean + all my plasmoids fit perfectly

also in windows i hate the clutter, win7 is the same mess, thanks kde for this :guitar:

Cool, but not cool. Somebody already told me how to get a regular desktop in KDE, so I won't have to deal with that annoying box you call "folder view".

Glad it all works for you though. Cheers.

OpenGuard

October 11th, 2009, 11:36 PM

this is specially why i use kde4 now (i too didn;t know how to use it at first)

with a messy desktop like gnome's:

you can't use widgets well and i end up hating all the clutter + mounted usb drive and CDs show up on top of other icons >.<

right now on my kde i have over 100 icons on the desktop folder view "aka what u call fence" and it looks incredibly clean + all my plasmoids fit perfectly

also in windows i hate the clutter, win7 is the same mess, thanks kde for this :guitar:

Why on earth someone would make his desktop look like that ? I mean, if you don't have the time to put your books into your home directory, etc., maybe it's worth switching to Windows ( which will clean up all the mess for you automatically ) ? No need to highlight non-existing problems.

NoaHall

October 11th, 2009, 11:39 PM

this is specially why i use kde4 now (i too didn;t know how to use it at first)

with a messy desktop like gnome's:

http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/my-desktop.jpg

you can't use widgets well and i end up hating all the clutter + mounted usb drive and CDs show up on top of other icons >.<

right now on my kde i have over 100 icons on the desktop folder view "aka what u call fence" and it looks incredibly clean + all my plasmoids fit perfectly

also in windows i hate the clutter, win7 is the same mess, thanks kde for this :guitar:

Your problem isn't gnome's fault, it is your own. My "Desktop" folder was in the same state, tbh, but I made a script to regularly move files from there into the correct location depending on the extension. Ah, the things you can do with a little knowledge.

days_of_ruin

October 11th, 2009, 11:42 PM

this is specially why i use kde4 now (i too didn;t know how to use it at first)

with a messy desktop like gnome's:

http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/my-desktop.jpg

you can't use widgets well and i end up hating all the clutter + mounted usb drive and CDs show up on top of other icons >.<

right now on my kde i have over 100 icons on the desktop folder view "aka what u call fence" and it looks incredibly clean + all my plasmoids fit perfectly

also in windows i hate the clutter, win7 is the same mess, thanks kde for this :guitar:

That's a problem with you, not Gnome. Would it kill you to move all that crap into a different folder? Also you can disable showing drives on the desktop.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 12:40 AM

I do not pay for KDE nor do I pay for Gnome. I have had to pay for Windows numerous times when I purchase a new PC, it is bundled into the price. I will not complain about others hard work and programming efforts that make both desktops possible. To me, it is like going to a friend's house for dinner and complaining that you don't like sweet potatoes or peas. If you don't like it, don't eat it. You are free to head over to the nearest drive-thru and pay for your meal. :popcorn:
That being said, I currently use Kubuntu 9.04 with the latest KDE 4.3 update. I keep my most frequently used icons in the bottom panel. There is a Quick Access folder view (folder icon with star) that lets you quickly browse your file system without opening a file manager until you decide to, similar to Finder in Mac OSX. My home folder is just to the right of it in case I decide to launch Dophin file manager. I rarely need to open Kmenu (start menu). Since all of my most frequently used programs are docked in the panel, I can use the favorites tab in Kmenu to launch less frequently used programs like Gimp. The task manager for managing opened windows is on the panel at the top of the desktop. I am free from Windows and have nothing to complain about. My PC and laptop both have the security and functionality of a Mac for half the price.
I find KDE configurable, responsive, functional, visually appealing and best of all -- it is free.

Rob

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 12:50 AM

That's a problem with you, not Gnome. Would it kill you to move all that crap into a different folder? Also you can disable showing drives on the desktop.

I disagree, Gnome really should arrange it's icons better than that. Windows, KDE and even probably OSX manage it - why can't Gnome?

And yeah I know it isn't a contest :)

I guess I just try to look for unity behind one desktop more, which is good in that it leads to faster development, but maybe I just need to accept that this is simply NOT the way open source works, and there's nothing wrong with that! :)

Even though things on Linux do feel a tad Gnome-centric right now (probably because of the bumpy transition to KDE 4.x) it will even out more in time :)

jonian_g

October 12th, 2009, 01:02 AM

I don't get that debate Gnome vs KDE.

I use them both and I like them both. Gnome on desktop, kde on laptop. They are very fast on my machines.
I also use Xfce on a netbook and I like it too.

Get over that debate. It is very old.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 01:24 AM

I don't get that debate Gnome vs KDE.

Get over that debate. It is very old.
Not only do I understand it, I strongly encourage debate and discussion. Without these things, one gets Windows Vista. One pays for it. One is stuck with it. If someone wants to offer a suggestion for new features or how it can be improved, simply call someone in Redmond who will be glad to take one's call. ;)
This is what makes being a Linux user a wonderful experience. Freedom to choose. Freedom to discuss. Freedom.
To quote Janis:
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.

samjh

October 12th, 2009, 01:31 AM

My KDE loads around 2 seconds faster than Gnome from the login screen. Not significant, IMHO.

jonian_g

October 12th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Not only do I understand it, I strongly encourage debate and discussion. Without these things, you get Windows Vista. You pay for it. You are stuck with it. If you want to offer a suggestion for new features or how it can be improved, you simply call someone in Redmond who will be glad to take your call. ;)
This is what makes being a Linux user a wonderful experience. Freedom to choose. Freedom to discuss. Freedom.
To quote Janis:
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.

I was referring to KDE sucks or Gnome sucks comments.

I don't get the point of your comments, quoting my post, about microsoft (I don't use windows at all) + I'm one of the developers of new karmic artwork, which means that I'm pretty involved with linux. So there is no need to preach me about software freedom and such.

PS: It is not debate that drives things forward but competition and collaboration.

Exodist

October 12th, 2009, 01:49 AM

I am not sure if KDE loads faster then Gnome, basically since I havent speed tested them on the same system with same settings and variables. But I am dang sure it is a lot faster then it used to be. I have been very impressed with its performance. Even on the live Kubuntu CD its very very responsive, more so then GNOME. That its self is a positive sign.

KDE 4.3.2 is new DE. To compare it to Gnome is like comparing Vista to XP. Wait, even thats a bad example.. Blahh.. lol
Well anyway lets wait and compare KDE4 to GNOME3.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 02:25 AM

KDE 4.3.2 is new DE. To compare it to Gnome is like comparing Vista to XP. Wait, even thats a bad example.. Blahh.. lol
Well anyway lets wait and compare KDE4 to GNOME3.

Yeah that will be interesting :)

Warpnow

October 12th, 2009, 02:57 AM

I disagree, Gnome really should arrange it's icons better than that. Windows, KDE and even probably OSX manage it - why can't Gnome?

Gnome leaves users the oppurtunity to manage their own icons. If you want gnome to, just right click and select clean up by name. Problem solves.

I, for one, think gnome looks very elegant.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9903/screenshotiw.png

The high ram usage is due to programs running in the background. I don't actually use near that much ram running just chromium. :-p

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:00 AM

Gnome leaves users the oppurtunity to manage their own icons. If you want gnome to, just right click and select clean up by name. Problem solves.

I, for one, think gnome looks very elegant.

The high ram usage is due to programs running in the background. I don't actually use near that much ram running just chromium. :-p

Could you please downsize the screenshot just a bit so I can see it without scrolling side to side and up and down in Firefox?

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:04 AM

Gnome leaves users the oppurtunity to manage their own icons. If you want gnome to, just right click and select clean up by name. Problem solves.

I, for one, think gnome looks very elegant.

The high ram usage is due to programs running in the background. I don't actually use near that much ram running just chromium. :-pLOL nevermind. I agree, it looks very nice and simple. Clean and uncluttered.

BigCityCat

October 12th, 2009, 03:07 AM

I started with KDE but because they do not have a handle on their network manager. They are constantly updating it and screwing up my wireless. They finally broke it so I moved to Gnome. My wireless works and I have no fear that ubuntu will jack my wireless. After that, I have found that GTK themes look nicer than anything KDE puts out. Including air. Gnome works much better that's all there is to it.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/bigcitycat/Screenshot777.png

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:13 AM

I started with KDE but because they do not have a handle on their network manager. They are constantly updating it and screwing up my wireless. They finally broke it so I moved to Gnome. My wireless works and I have no fear that ubuntu will jack my wireless.

I can't speak about that. I manage my wireless on my laptop automatically at home by editing /etc/network/interfaces and I manage it everywhere else at the terminal with iwlist scan, iwconfig, dhclient etc.
Or one can use a simple script (where your wireless device is wlan0):

#! /bin/bash
ifconfig wlan0
iwconfig wlan0 essid NETWORK_ID key WIRELESS_KEY
dhclient wlan0

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 03:17 AM

LOL nevermind. I agree, it looks very nice and simple. Clean and uncluttered.

Only because he doesn't HAVE any icons on it and it has a nice background! lol

I'll show you something.

http://i35.tinypic.com/xb0e52.jpg

Nice grid. lol

I'm not saying Gnome is terrible, I'm really not. I'm just saying it has glaring faults ._.

BigCityCat

October 12th, 2009, 03:25 AM

I can't speak about that. I manage my wireless on my laptop automatically at home by editing /etc/network/interfaces and I manage it everywhere else at the terminal with iwlist scan, iwconfig, dhclient etc.
Or one can use a simple script (where your wireless device is wlan0):

#! /bin/bash
ifconfig wlan0
iwconfig wlan0 essid NETWORK_ID key WIRELESS_KEY
dhclient wlan0

I have a broadcom driver that requires me to use the wl driver. I had edited some of those files as well, but my point is more that because KDE is still working on their Network Manager they keep updating it, and that is causing me to have to figure out how to fix every time. I'm not extremely experienced so I found myself constantly worried that it would just stop working and I wouldn't be able to fix it. That finally happened. I think Gnome considers their Network Manger fixed. They seem to be finished tweaking it, so I have it working and I feel more secure about it.

I like KDE but from using both of them I feel more secure with Gnome.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:25 AM

Only because he doesn't HAVE any icons on it and it has a nice background! lol

I'll show you something.

http://i35.tinypic.com/xb0e52.jpg

Nice grid. lol

I'm not saying Gnome is terrible, I'm really not. I'm just saying it has glaring faults ._.
I was trying to be nice. ;) But now that the cat is out of the bag, I agree with you. I don't particularly enjoy the user interface of Gnome. Plus it very much has a Windows 98 feel to me. Sqares, lines . . .
Ok, maybe Windows 2000.

salemboot

October 12th, 2009, 03:27 AM

Here's my desktop :)

Gnome just has more polish. All the themes available are impressive. I don't like the new login screen on GDM and it seems like its become difficult to edit.

KDE probably needs more developers and artist willing to theme it. I think people are still in shock from the massive changes.

Just my 2 cents.

http://www.pimpworks.org/~squirrl/Screenshots/somework.png

praveesh

October 12th, 2009, 03:27 AM

Yes, well. I learned that only after I got KDE on my ubuntu as it indeed installed kubuntu-desktop. Where and how could I get just KDE?

install the packages kde-minimal ,kde-standard , kde-full according to your needs

Warpnow

October 12th, 2009, 03:29 AM

Only because he doesn't HAVE any icons on it and it has a nice background! lol

I'll show you something.

http://i35.tinypic.com/xb0e52.jpg

Nice grid. lol

I'm not saying Gnome is terrible, I'm really not. I'm just saying it has glaring faults ._.

Why would I dump random files on the desktop when typing that file name or part of it opens the file via gnome-do docky? It would be much slower to click on it than launch the file. The same is usually true of any application launcher.

Plus...your screen shot has the "Clean up by name" button in it...click it...

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:31 AM

I have a broadcom driver that requires me to use the wl driver. I had edited some of those files as well, but my point is more that because KDE is still working on their Network Manager they keep updating it, and that is causing me to have to figure out how to fix every time. I'm not extremely experienced so I found myself constantly worried that it would just stop working and I wouldn't be able to fix it. That finally happened. I think Gnome considers their Network Manger fixed. They seem to be finished tweaking it, so I have it working and I feel more secure about it.

I like KDE but from using both of them I feel more secure with Gnome.

I hear you. I was just offering some side advice. It is always good to know the command line in case you can't get your Xsession to load and get an error message. You can still get an internet connection using your wireless. Maybe perform updates, uninstall some software, or use a command line web browser like links2 to read a forum for help. ;)

praveesh

October 12th, 2009, 03:33 AM

Haha I think that's a little harsh - Amarok is gradually getting there but yeah I think it could do with some interface tweaks and maybe an option to revert quickly back to the "classic" style of 1.x.

I find Gnome clunky too - KDE kinda "flows". It is hard to explain though yeah.

To be honest though I think all this aside, the situation will sort itself out. If KDE is the superior desktop, it will eventually prove itself as such, and if Gnome is, it will as well. If Ubuntu decides not to adopt KDE as it's most supported GUI even if it is superior, then another distribution such as openSUSE or a newcomer which DOES support it may take the lead. I think at the end of the day, survival of the fittest shall prevail! :)

I don't completely agree. Unless the new distribution ship free cd, I don't think they can take the lead.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:34 AM

Here's my desktop :)

http://www.pimpworks.org/~squirrl/Screenshots/somework.png

Very Dark and Moody, lol. I went to high school with kids like you. J/K. I like the rounded buttons a little better.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 03:35 AM

Why would I dump random files on the desktop when typing that file name or part of it opens the file via gnome-do docky? It would be much slower to click on it than launch the file. The same is usually true of any application launcher.

Plus...your screen shot has the "Clean up by name" button in it...click it...

But where's the grid? Notice how on Windows, KDE 3.x and probably Mac there is a rigid, well-spaced grid to stop the icons and text from overlapping like that. And yeah I know KDE 4.x doesn't do it either yet (at least not last time I tried), but then again they are fancy widgets and 4.x is a work in progress... I'm sure this will improve :)

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:37 AM

I don't completely agree. Unless the new distribution ship free cd, I don't think they can take the lead.

I remember when I used to get AOL dialup CD's in the mail at least once a week. I eventually started using them as coasters on the coffee table. ;)

BigCityCat

October 12th, 2009, 03:37 AM

I hear you. I was just offering some side advice. It is always good to know the command line in case you can't get your Xsession to load and get an error message. You can still get an internet connection using your wireless. Maybe perform updates, uninstall some software, or use a command line web browser like links2 to read a forum for help. ;)

I'm getting better and better with the command line, but it comes with experience. I will keep your suggestion in mind.

The next time I buy any hardware. I will be buying with Linux in mind, but my laptop will probably last another 5 years minimum.

Rogue dog

October 12th, 2009, 03:42 AM

Yes, well. I learned that only after I got KDE on my ubuntu as it indeed installed kubuntu-desktop. Where and how could I get just KDE?

https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/Beta/Kubuntu

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:47 AM

I'm getting better and better with the command line, but it comes with experience. I will keep your suggestion in mind.

The next time I buy any hardware. I will be buying with Linux in mind, but my laptop will probably last another 5 years minimum.

You can always try those commands out just to see how they work. Really kind of cool. You can do it in Gnome. You can control your wireless from the command line, really!!
And here was the link I copied the script from btw, to give credit where credit is due:
http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/14/connect-to-a-wireless-network-via-command-line/

Not that it is anything complex. Try these instructions out sometime for fun. You never know, you might enjoy it.

Warpnow

October 12th, 2009, 03:48 AM

But where's the grid? Notice how on Windows, KDE 3.x and probably Mac there is a rigid, well-spaced grid to stop the icons and text from overlapping like that. And yeah I know KDE 4.x doesn't do it either yet (at least not last time I tried), but then again they are fancy widgets and 4.x is a work in progress... I'm sure this will improve :)

If I'm sorting through files I'll use nautilus. I kinda like being able to drag my icons wherever I want. On my second monitor, there are alot of them running in their own X sessions. I organize them into shapes when I'm bored.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 03:51 AM

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:53 AM

But where's the grid? Notice how on Windows, KDE 3.x and probably Mac there is a rigid, well-spaced grid to stop the icons and text from overlapping like that. And yeah I know KDE 4.x doesn't do it either yet (at least not last time I tried), but then again they are fancy widgets and 4.x is a work in progress... I'm sure this will improve :)

Sure it does. IF you use folder view on the desktop, right click and select icons>sort icons or align to grid or lock icons in place. Also you can unlock the widgets, right click your folder view, click on settings, and edit how many lines of text are visible beneath an icon, the size of the icons, etc.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:54 AM

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:57 AM

If I'm sorting through files I'll use nautilus. I kinda like being able to drag my icons wherever I want. On my second monitor, there are alot of them running in their own X sessions. I organize them into shapes when I'm bored.

You sound like me, BORED. I have gotten my computers set up so completely functional that they can now just sit there. I have nothing left to configure or rearrange. I backup some stuff now and then, download some torrents. Maybe I should learn a programming language. I

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 03:58 AM

Sure it does. IF you use folder view on the desktop, right click and select icons>sort icons or align to grid or lock icons in place. Also you can unlock the widgets, right click your folder view, click on settings, and edit how many lines of text are visible beneath an icon, the size of the icons, etc.

I stand corrected :)

I don't think it automatically aligns them to a grid when you place them though does it? Does it have that option? Like in Windows I mean.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 04:02 AM

You sound like me, BORED. I have gotten my computers set up so completely functional that they can now just sit there. I have nothing left to configure or rearrange. I backup some stuff now and then, download some torrents. Maybe I should learn a programming language. I

I don't actually often get bored at the pc, as I'm getting quite into things like internet marketing so that gives me something to do pretty much all the time lol

Plus a few other little bits and pieces that are fun and vaguely constructive lol

I do still have the occasional technical issue on here probably because it's Karmic and that, but overall yeah I just like having a functional, working and fairly enjoyable to use system :)

Viva

October 12th, 2009, 04:05 AM

I don't think there is much difference between the default installs, but gnome-panel applets can slow down the start up time significantly.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:07 AM

I stand corrected :)

I don't think it automatically aligns them to a grid when you place them though does it? Does it have that option? Like in Windows I mean.

http://welshpixie.efx3.com/files/2009/07/winders-desktop.jpg

This is just an example, but that behavior is not default in all Windows versions. I know in XP if I delete or move an Icon it leaves holes or overlaps. You have to right click the desktop, click on icons . . .
You know the drill. :P
At least for me.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:12 AM

I don't actually often get bored at the pc, as I'm getting quite into things like internet marketing so that gives me something to do pretty much all the time lol

Plus a few other little bits and pieces that are fun and vaguely constructive lol

I do still have the occasional technical issue on here probably because it's Karmic and that, but overall yeah I just like having a functional, working and fairly enjoyable to use system :)

That brings up a good point. I have everything working the way I need it. Printers, scanner, networking. Should I even consider upgrading to Karmic when it is finally released? Why or why not? I don't need any additional functionality at this point. I am a happy camper.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 04:18 AM

http://welshpixie.efx3.com/files/2009/07/winders-desktop.jpg

This is just an example, but that behavior is not default in all Windows versions. I know in XP if I delete or move an Icon it leaves holes or overlaps. You have to right click the desktop, click on icons . . .
You know the drill. :P
At least for me.

But isn't that just if you switch the grid off entirely?

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 04:24 AM

I don't think KDE is as themeable as gnome, but it certainly looks better by default.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:24 AM

But isn't that just if you switch the grid off entirely?

I have not found it to always be enabled by default. Of course, I have used many different XP installation cd's over the years. At school and work, for clients, etc. I have not found it to always be enabled by default is what I am saying. Or maybe it got unchecked somehow. Registry cleaners, software installs, etc. Who knows.
The good news is though, KDE 4.3 is pretty well organized when it comes to the desktop and icon placement. Especially considering everything is contained to the folder view by default.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 04:28 AM

I have not found it to always be enabled by default. Of course, I have used many different XP installation cd's over the years. At school and work, for clients, etc. I have not found it to always be enabled by default is what I am saying. Or maybe it got unchecked somehow. Registry cleaners, software installs, etc. Who knows.
The good news is though, KDE 4.3 is pretty well organized when it comes to the desktop and icon placement. Especially considering everything is contained to the folder view by default.

Yeah that's a beautiful feature :)

I hope they continue this kind of clever, subtle innovation :)

I don't think there is much difference between the default installs, but gnome-panel applets can slow down the start up time significantly.

Yeah that may well have been what is slowing down my Gnome start-up! It does take a little while, although as you can see from the screenie it's not THAT heavy other than all the shortcut icons in the top bar.

SomeGuyDude

October 12th, 2009, 04:30 AM

Boot time may go the lowest on my "features I give a ***** about" list. It's a neat novelty but considering I'm not turning my computer off and on every hour it's not that crucial.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:32 AM

I don't think KDE is as theme-able as gnome, but it certainly looks better by default.

I don't know. This is the default KDE 4.3 and the attachment is my KDE 4.3. I think it is quite versatile.

http://www.itnewstoday.com/wp-includes/images/kde43b1review/Screenshot.png

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:45 AM

Boot time may go the lowest on my "features I give a ***** about" list. It's a neat novelty but considering I'm not turning my computer off and on every hour it's not that crucial.

Right? I have been using Linux for many years. I remember when you restarted networking from the command line:
sudo service networking restart
or network depending on your distribution.
Or install a new driver. Then load it into the kernel.

sudo mopdrobe name-of-driver

And now all the advice is reboot. Install this or that software. Reboot. LOL.

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 06:15 AM

I don't know. This is the default KDE 4.3 and the attachment is my KDE 4.3. I think it is quite versatile.

Can I see a screenshot of a window on yours?

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 06:28 AM

Can I see a screenshot of a window on yours?

Different computer, similar setup.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 06:40 AM

Different computer, similar setup.

Wow that's seriously pretty! And that's not even 4.3.x is it? I might be wrong, but to me that looks more like 4.2 judging by the plasma button thingy? ^_^

I don't think KDE is as themeable as gnome, but it certainly looks better by default.

I have actually always found KDE releases at least aim to be incredibly customizable. The 3.x series by it's peak was amazingly flexible and themeable - you could get it looking like pretty much whatever you want! I made it look exactly like Windows XP once so much so that you genuinely couldn't tell :)

4.x is not QUITE at that level yet but it's very, very close :)

Boot time may go the lowest on my "features I give a ***** about" list. It's a neat novelty but considering I'm not turning my computer off and on every hour it's not that crucial.

True :) And my judgement probably was based on a rather cluttered Gnome desktop at least in the top panel, so I apologize for it not being a totally "fair test"! heh :)

Thing is I don't really mind either, I just always though KDE would be significantly slower to start due to the nature of it's desktop and what people often say online. I was really surprised though as it's amazing how fast it shoots through it's setup and gives you a responsive desktop even before the panel and system tray have finished populating themselves!

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 06:48 AM

(deleted due to double post :) )

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 07:01 AM

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 07:01 AM

Wow that's seriously pretty! And that's not even 4.3.x is it? I might be wrong, but to me that looks more like 4.2 judging by the plasma button thingy? ^_^

I have actually always found KDE releases at least aim to be incredibly customizable. The 3.x series by it's peak was amazingly flexible and themeable - you could get it looking like pretty much whatever you want! I made it look exactly like Windows XP once so much so that you genuinely couldn't tell :)

4.x is not QUITE at that level yet but it's very, very close :)

True :) And my judgement probably was based on a rather cluttered Gnome desktop at least in the top panel, so I apologize for it not being a totally "fair test"! heh :)

Thing is I don't really mind either, I just always though KDE would be significantly slower to start due to the nature of it's desktop and what people often say online. I was really surprised though as it's amazing how fast it shoots through it's setup and gives you a responsive desktop even before the panel and system tray have finished populating themselves!

Yes it is 4.3, the latest. ;) see my previous post below:

I don't know. This is the default KDE 4.3 and the attachment is my KDE 4.3. I think it is quite versatile.

http://www.itnewstoday.com/wp-includes/images/kde43b1review/Screenshot.png

hanzomon4

October 12th, 2009, 07:03 AM

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 07:10 AM

I would be using kde4 but it's knetwork-manager could not connect to to my schools network, wouldn't even try. It's a known/reported bug and yeah I could have used gnome's network-manager but I'm all for no compromises.
see my previous post:

I can't speak about that. I manage my wireless on my laptop automatically at home by editing /etc/network/interfaces and I manage it everywhere else at the terminal with iwlist scan, iwconfig, dhclient etc.
Or one can use a simple script (where your wireless device is wlan0):

#! /bin/bash
ifconfig wlan0
iwconfig wlan0 essid NETWORK_ID key WIRELESS_KEY
dhclient wlan0

AND

You can always try those commands out just to see how they work. Really kind of cool. You can do it in Gnome. You can control your wireless from the command line, really!!
And here was the link I copied the script from btw, to give credit where credit is due:
http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/14/connect-to-a-wireless-network-via-command-line/

Not that it is anything complex. Try these instructions out sometime for fun. You never know, you might enjoy it.

renkinjutsu

October 12th, 2009, 07:32 AM

Only because he doesn't HAVE any icons on it and it has a nice background! lol

I'll show you something.

<snip>

Nice grid. lol

I'm not saying Gnome is terrible, I'm really not. I'm just saying it has glaring faults ._.
You have to admit though.. gnome DOES look pretty sexy if you know what you're doing..

These guys know what they're doing...
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=91411&file1=91411-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=Elegant+Brit+Desktop+Variant
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=91647&file1=91647-1.jpg&file2=91647-2.jpg&file3=&name=deviant+desktop+%5Boct.+08%5D
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=89329&file1=89329-1.jpg&file2=89329-2.jpg&file3=&name=deviant+desktop+[sept.+08]

my desktop loads up pretty quickly.. although i'm not actually running a gnome-session

gnome-settings-daemon
/home/moymoy/.conky/start &
scim-bridge &
deluged &
deluge -u web &
gnome-panel &

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 07:45 AM

You have to admit though.. gnome DOES look pretty sexy if you know what you're doing..

These guys know what they're doing...
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=91411&file1=91411-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=Elegant+Brit+Desktop+Variant
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=91647&file1=91647-1.jpg&file2=91647-2.jpg&file3=&name=deviant+desktop+%5Boct.+08%5D
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=89329&file1=89329-1.jpg&file2=89329-2.jpg&file3=&name=deviant+desktop+[sept.+08]

my desktop loads up pretty quickly.. although i'm not actually running a gnome-session

gnome-settings-daemon
/home/moymoy/.conky/start &
scim-bridge &
deluged &
deluge -u web &
gnome-panel &
I'll give you some credit on the third one. The first two links look not so pretty to me. It reminds me of themes on Windows 98.
so +1

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 07:49 AM

After using KDE4 I'm starting to think that both window managers need a long way to go. KDE has alot of things that gnome doesn't that I like but the opposite also applies.

I find that KDE tends to show and emphasise UI elements that aren't used much, and Kwin isn't as configurable as compiz. However the size of elements, and the use of spacing is much better in KDE making some of its UI elements much slicker. Also the taskbar somehow looks so much cooler (after making font size 7 and with oxygen theme). The menu however is poorly designed and it usually takes more clicks to use things in KDE. Also gnome applications look horrible in it.

I could write more on both sides.

Someone should try and take the good of both DEs and make a better one.

I disagree, I think the K Menu is pretty cool and isn't that far off the Windows Vista menu for example, it's largely the same isn't it?

As for GTK apps in KDE - they really do look great on here but I don't know why - it might be something you have to install or whatever but seriously, they look nearly as good as the native Qt apps :)

Other than the tools needing a little more polish to catch up with Gnome's (as hanzomon4 would probably agree!), I really think KDE is an astounding desktop and in my opinion a strong contender for the best in the world (that sounds like quite a statement I know, but I believe it is true ^_^)

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 07:52 AM

Actually it might be 'cause I install kde minimal.

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 07:53 AM

Gnome can look slicker than KDE with the right customisation.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 07:54 AM

After using KDE4 I'm starting to think that both window managers need a long way to go. KDE has alot of things that gnome doesn't that I like but the opposite also applies.

I find that KDE tends to show and emphasise UI elements that aren't used much, and Kwin isn't as configurable as compiz. However the size of elements, and the use of spacing is much better in KDE making some of its UI elements much slicker. Also the taskbar somehow looks so much cooler (after making font size 7 and with oxygen theme). The menu however is poorly designed and it usually takes more clicks to use things in KDE. Also gnome applications look horrible in it.

I could write more on both sides.

Someone should try and take the good of both DEs and make a better one.

The menu is fine if you know how to use it. You have to right click on the items you use most and >add favorites. Then next time you open Kmenu they are right there in front of you on the favorites tab. No need to browse or click. You can put icons on the panel or desktop as well, which frees up space on the favorites tab. I rarely have to open KMENU since everything is right on my desktop mac style. If you find yourself spending all of your time in Kmenu, then you are just not doing it right.

unknownPoster

October 12th, 2009, 07:55 AM

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 07:55 AM

I'll give you some credit on the third one. The first two links look not so pretty to me. It reminds me of themes on Windows 98.
so +1

Yeah ditto, the third is cool (cool background too rofl), but see these are mainly desktop aesthetics tricks that you could pull off with most DEs. You can get Fluxbox, Windows XP, KDE, Gnome... pretty much anything looking absolutely astounding if you know what you are doing!

You should have seen my m8's Windows XP from about 5 years ago! It was pretty awesome lol

Gnome can look slicker than KDE with the right customisation.

True, but that's usually down to how minimal and lightweight a WM is. There is a chance you could get something like Fluxbox to look even slicker than Gnome! lol

unknownPoster

October 12th, 2009, 07:56 AM

Gnome can look slicker than KDE with the right customisation.

That's purely subjective.

Sashin

October 12th, 2009, 07:59 AM

That's purely subjective.

Yep.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 08:01 AM

From a compilation point of view, KDE is vastly superior to Gnome. Gnome has so many dependencies compared to KDE. On my hardware all of KDE took roughly 2-3 hours to compile while Gnome took about 6.

My only regret is that KDE lacks a well-integrated web-browser. I'd support KDE much more if Firefox had QT client.

Yeah I know what you mean - I have my fingers crossed for Arora to improve!

To be fair though, I can't imagine there are many disadvantages running Google Chrome in KDE as opposed to Gnome. It is so fast anyway and most Linux machines have the GTK libraries installed anyway. I am looking forward to Arora, but at the moment I use Chrome or Chromium like a shot! :)

unknownPoster

October 12th, 2009, 08:06 AM

Yeah I know what you mean - I have my fingers crossed for Arora to improve!

To be fair though, I can't imagine there are many disadvantages running Google Chrome in KDE as opposed to Gnome. It is so fast anyway and most Linux machines have the GTK libraries installed anyway. I am looking forward to Arora, but at the moment I use Chrome or Chromium like a shot! :)

As of now, Chromium is far too unstable for me.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what kind of dependencies Chromium has, as I haven't compiled and used it since it was first released.

If I remember correctly it uses Cairo as opposed to GTK or QT, but I may be wrong.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 08:06 AM

Yeah ditto, the third is cool (cool background too rofl), but see these are mainly desktop aesthetics tricks that you could pull off with most DEs. You can get Fluxbox, Windows XP, KDE, Gnome... pretty much anything looking absolutely astounding if you know what you are doing!

You should have seen my m8's Windows XP from about 5 years ago! It was pretty awesome lol

True, but that's usually down to how minimal and lightweight a WM is. There is a chance you could get something like Fluxbox to look even slicker than Gnome! lol

Minimal and lightweight is important if you have slower hard drives (IDE 5400rpm), a low-end graphics card , and only 1GB of RAM installed. If you are milking an older machine for what it is worth, certainly boot times are an important factor in choosing a DE. But if you have a newer computer and 3GB of RAM or more and a good graphics card, I don't see that you are going to have to be concerned about speed or performance. The newer computers will perform quickly, regardless of whether you migrate to 64bit or stick with a 32bit OS.

Screwdriver0815

October 12th, 2009, 09:09 AM

After using KDE4 I'm starting to think that both window managers need a long way to go. KDE has alot of things that gnome doesn't that I like but the opposite also applies.

I find that KDE tends to show and emphasise UI elements that aren't used much, and Kwin isn't as configurable as compiz. However the size of elements, and the use of spacing is much better in KDE making some of its UI elements much slicker. Also the taskbar somehow looks so much cooler (after making font size 7 and with oxygen theme). The menu however is poorly designed and it usually takes more clicks to use things in KDE. Also gnome applications look horrible in it.

I could write more on both sides.

Someone should try and take the good of both DEs and make a better one.

for "saving mouseclicks" in the menu, just right-klick on the menu-button in the taskbar, choose "Kmenu settings" and then in the respective menu choose "change categories on mouse hover".

or unlock the widgets, right-click on the menu-button and choose "classic menustyle"

to get gnome applications look more KDE-ish, simply install the package "gtk-qt-engine" and then go to the systemsettings, category "appearance" and choose "GTK-styles and Fonts" in the categories on the left-hand side (where you also can choose icons, windows, startup-screen). Then activate the option "use my KDE style in GTK applications". Restart KDE, done.

:guitar:

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 09:14 AM

for "saving mouseclicks" in the menu, just right-klick on the menu-button in the taskbar, choose "Kmenu settings" and then in the respective menu choose "change categories on mouse hover".

or unlock the widgets, right-click on the menu-button and choose "classic menustyle"

to get gnome applications look more KDE-ish, simply install the package "gtk-qt-engine" and then go to the systemsettings, category "appearance" and choose "GTK-styles and Fonts" in the categories on the left-hand side (where you also can choose icons, windows, startup-screen). Then activate the option "use my KDE style in GTK applications". Restart KDE, done.

:guitar:

Excellent tips. Thanks.

Screwdriver0815

October 12th, 2009, 09:38 AM

Excellent tips. Thanks.

you're welcome! :D

I would be using kde4 but it's knetwork-manager could not connect to to my schools network, wouldn't even try. It's a known/reported bug and yeah I could have used gnome's network-manager but I'm all for no compromises.

thats the fault of Kubuntu, as all other KDE-distro's have the Gnome-networkmanager by default AFAIK.
There is also wicd, another networkmanager which is not dependend on Gnome. But I don't have any experience with it. I will get experience when Kubuntu Karmic comes out... then I will switch the Laptop to KDE and there I need a working WLAN.

praveesh

October 12th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Why on earth someone would make his desktop look like that ? I mean, if you don't have the time to put your books into your home directory, etc., maybe it's worth switching to Windows ( which will clean up all the mess for you automatically ) ? No need to highlight non-existing problems.

to my knowledge, kde also arranges the icons automatically

synsterky

October 12th, 2009, 01:08 PM

BigCityCat

October 12th, 2009, 01:30 PM

You can always try those commands out just to see how they work. Really kind of cool. You can do it in Gnome. You can control your wireless from the command line, really!!
And here was the link I copied the script from btw, to give credit where credit is due:
http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/14/connect-to-a-wireless-network-via-command-line/

Not that it is anything complex. Try these instructions out sometime for fun. You never know, you might enjoy it.

I will give it a try.

I live in Orlando too.

BigCityCat

October 12th, 2009, 01:51 PM

From a compilation point of view, KDE is vastly superior to Gnome. Gnome has so many dependencies compared to KDE. On my hardware all of KDE took roughly 2-3 hours to compile while Gnome took about 6.

My only regret is that KDE lacks a well-integrated web-browser. I'd support KDE much more if Firefox had QT client.

I think it does have a qt client(gtk-qt-engine). Then configure it from apperance/gtk settings. Use qt4. Im not sure if that is what you meant. Here is how mine turned out before I switched to Gnome.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/bigcitycat/snapshot3.png

This is a good thread for Firefox integration in KDE.

http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17786

Screwdriver0815

October 12th, 2009, 02:19 PM

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this (couldn't be bothered reading the whole 13 pages), but I think "Gnome Shell" may be of some interest.

This could provide some interesting competition in regards to KDE's out of box attractiveness vs Gnome's.
yes, I have mentioned it before as well as Hoppi :D

I for one say that Gnome Shell is quite interesting and I definitly will test it, as soon as I get my hands on it resp. as soon as it is in a more advanced development state.
At the moment I am a little bit confused about it because it looks still like the "old" Gnome... but anyway, I am more interested in how the menus and the "user guiding" is done in Gnome shell.

My only regret is that KDE lacks a well-integrated web-browser. I'd support KDE much more if Firefox had QT client.

personally I am fine with Konqueror. It has got some improvements in the latest updates and it now has a similar speed to Firefox.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 03:05 PM

unknownPoster

October 12th, 2009, 04:13 PM

personally I am fine with Konqueror. It has got some improvements in the latest updates and it now has a similar speed to Firefox.

I suppose I should add that I work for a University and Konqueror doesn't meet my needs. Many of our web-based systems only work with Firefox or IE.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:24 PM

I will give it a try.

I live in Orlando too.

Awesome!

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 04:27 PM

I think it does have a qt client(gtk-qt-engine). Then configure it from apperance/gtk settings. Use qt4. Im not sure if that is what you meant. Here is how mine turned out before I switched to Gnome.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/bigcitycat/snapshot3.png

This is a good thread for Firefox integration in KDE.

http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17786

Important to note: I keep the lastest Firefox (3.5.3) using Ubuntuzilla rather than Ubuntu's older version from the repositories. The oxygen theme is for older versions of Firefox.

Rogue dog

October 12th, 2009, 07:30 PM

Goodness me, what a thread this is. hoppipolla can certainly put em up.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_294/121727678892RVt9.jpg

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Goodness me, what a thread this is. hoppipolla can certainly put em up.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_294/121727678892RVt9.jpg

It has been a thoroughly healthy discussion I must say.

praveesh

October 12th, 2009, 07:51 PM

I haven't expect this thread to go this much long . I've expected this to be thrown to the recurring discussions waste basket. Good work hoppi .

Islington

October 12th, 2009, 07:58 PM

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 08:05 PM

I could kiss you. In karmic the kdenetwork manager seems to work 95% of the time. Always good to know a backup.
This is Linux. It is usually much faster for an experienced Linux user to do something from the command line than it is to use GUI tools. It is more flexible, quicker, and gives your more control over your hardware and operating system.
The GUI is great but people tend to rely on it too much. I am glad I was able to point you in the right direction. You can save the directions to a text file in your home directory in case you find your self in a "terminal only" situation and need to connect to the internet.
Just open the file by typing nano name-of-file.

Like Susan Boyle, I've never been kissed. ;)

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 08:53 PM

Wow this thread really has gone on for a long time! lol

It's actually really nice it has turned into such a calm discussion as well, as I know they can go quite aggressive at times! lol

Oh, I'm back on KDE and I have a few minimal issues (it's been a while so of course the little details still surprise me :) ) -

The fonts look a little crumbly and not quite as perfected as in Gnome, although I did just fiddle with some settings in Appearance > Fonts so maybe that will fix it!

Yeah GTK apps don't look QUITE as good, but there really isn't much in it!

I do still think some of the menus and panels in applications such as Kopete need re-thinking to avoid "feature bloat", this is normally something that comes with time (remember Gaim before 2.0?) but it might make it look a bit more polished... overall though Kopete is sweet and much better than I remember it!

That's about it though!

Ah KDE! Live long and prosper! rofl ^_^

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 09:09 PM

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 09:19 PM

I changed the system fonts to Sergoe UI from my Vista partition on my laptop. I must say that is the one nice feature that Windows Vista brought to the table. A nice crisp, clean TT font.

Ah, do we have no equivalents? Gnome does have nice clear fonts though doesn't it?

(and no I have no trouble in the world admitting when Gnome does something well or better than KDE, which is quite often the case when something on KDE 4.x still lacks polish :) )

monkeyKata

October 12th, 2009, 09:22 PM

I'd be happy to use KDE had it not force me to have a zillions programs I don't use.

There's a way to only install the kdebase, and kdebase-workspace packages, along with their dependencies and libraries, maybe kwin, to have a minimal install of kde. I did that using this ppa to get version 4.3.2:

https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports

And from there I installed any native KDE apps I wanted.

Also, anyone else liking Kword? Version 2.0 or 2.1(beta's available through another ppa, which for me got rid of a prolonged loading time when creating/opening documents: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/koffice2.1-beta2) I really like the look and feel, to me it seems quite professional. Version 2.1 also has an export to pdf feature now.

I personally have been using both DEs(recently checking out kde) and find myself wishing I could combine elements from each into one. I also think this forum must be pretty open to other desktop environments, by looking regularly at the desktop screenshot threads in the café and seeing the variety of pics; fluxbox(or some kind of box), of course gnome, and lots of kde.

rb0171610

October 12th, 2009, 09:46 PM

Ah, do we have no equivalents? Gnome does have nice clear fonts though doesn't it?

(and no I have no trouble in the world admitting when Gnome does something well or better than KDE, which is quite often the case when something on KDE 4.x still lacks polish :) )
There may be equivalents but I just like Vista's default font. I think it is really clear and clean. There's a ton of TTFs in my system. I just think Vista's looks nice.
It is a personal preference.

hoppipolla

October 12th, 2009, 10:19 PM

Also, anyone else liking Kword? Version 2.0 or 2.1(beta's available through another ppa, which for me got rid of a prolonged loading time when creating/opening documents: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/koffice2.1-beta2) I really like the look and feel, to me it seems quite professional. Version 2.1 also has an export to pdf feature now.

I personally have been using both DEs(recently checking out kde) and find myself wishing I could combine elements from each into one. I also think this forum must be pretty open to other desktop environments, by looking regularly at the desktop screenshot threads in the café and seeing the variety of pics; fluxbox(or some kind of box), of course gnome, and lots of kde.

I've only really ever tried OpenOffice - I should give KOffice a go sometime then :)

And yeah I think the DEs could learn a bit from each other. I think KDE could benefit from the clean, polished interface that Gnome has, I'm hoping it will come closer to this as the 4.x branch matures :)