Toyota Prius may be banned from the USA

[LowSky]

According to a bunch of news floating around the web, here's one link;
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2009/10/07/toyota-s-prius-threatened-by-probe.aspx


A company Called Paice LLC is suing Toyota, claiming that Paice invented the Hybrid system that Toyota uses. If the courts does claim that Paice is the legal owner to the system Toyota would have to stop selling its hybrid models in the US.
Strangely when I looked into the Paice company a bit and notice that the management team is made of of many old executives from Ford and GM.

http://www.paice.net/Management/tabid/54/Default.aspx

Something tells me these guys are trying to get one of the most popular of Japanese cars off the road in the US to help the domestic brands a bit.

what do you guys think? Does this sound fishy? Even the court that judging this has been known to side with some fishy stuff in the past.

[Mehall]

It's more than possibley true.

Patent Trolls are rampant in the US, not just for Software Patents.

[SuperSonic4]

Probable but then the US has long seemed backward like that to me

[openfly]

I thought they'd be banned because shipping them over outweighed their environmental benefit as supposedly green vehicles. Oh that and the best way to fix our busted automotive industry in the US would be to treat asian automakers the same way they treat US automakers.

Basically make it impossible for them to sell their cars hear until they start playing fair.

[ElSlunko]

It's possible I guess. Hybrids were in very early development in the US but the projects were abandoned. One of the big "woopsies" GM apologized for.

[earthpigg]

I thought they'd be banned because shipping them over outweighed their environmental benefit as supposedly green vehicles.

are you sure they aren't made in the US?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/map%20of%20toyota%20factories%20in%20the%20US/montages/tmc_map1.jpg

[SunnyRabbiera]

They want to inch into a market that has eluded the American car industry.
American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it

[Screwdriver0815]

if Paice wins the lawsuit, Toyota will open their petty cash and pay them some millions. Thats it

Toyota is not GM. Toyota still has some money, being the largest car manufacturer in the world ;)


American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it

where do you want to go then? Over here, also everything is dead.

[NoaHall]

I dream of a Russian ice filled location with no other people for 15 miles.

[Dharmachakra]

That's a fairly misleading title.

[SunnyRabbiera]

where do you want to go then? Over here, also everything is dead.

To sea, to sea...
My undersea kingdom awaits.

[tsali]

This is business as usual. Nothing to see here. Move along...

[CJ Master]

That's a fairly misleading title.

Agreed. Should be changed to "Toyota Prius may be banned from the USA."

[samjh]

Something tells me these guys are trying to get one of the most popular of Japanese cars off the road in the US to help the domestic brands a bit.

what do you guys think? Does this sound fishy? Even the court that judging this has been known to side with some fishy stuff in the past.

Not fishy at all.

It's well-known that Alex Severinsky invented hybrid vehicle engine technology. And the law suit against Toyota has been going on for over four years; Severinsky won his case in 2005, and Toyota has since appealed. It's not a new issue.

Paice is not a patent troll, and Severinsky is no fly-by-night phony. If Toyota used his patented technology without due permission, they should pay.

http://www.eng.umd.edu/ihof/inductees/severinsky.html

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it


<sarcasm> This seems like a patent lawsuit, similar to Software Intellectual Property lawsuits. These are going rampant.

You better leave as soon as possible. After the Tax rate rises to pay for all the auto, bank, etc., bailouts, you are not going to afford to do anything other than survive.

But, where can you go? It is a global problem. Many countries have done the same things as America (I assume you mean USA). </sarcasm>

[cprofitt]

They want to inch into a market that has eluded the American car industry.
American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it

I have contemplated leaving as well... I have the ability to go to most Common Wealth countries and use the 'right of abode'... but I have thus far not made that choice. My hope is that the USA will be able to do as England did and slip a bit, but not crash and burn.

[KiwiNZ]

Title edited to be more accurate

[handy]

I have contemplated leaving as well... I have the ability to go to most Common Wealth countries and use the 'right of abode'... but I have thus far not made that choice. My hope is that the USA will be able to do as England did and slip a bit, but not crash and burn.

A lot of slipping has gone on for one reason or another throughout the history of the world. Even before humanity existed; species that were once dominant are now extinct.

[rodh]

Well if one is to look up the history of the electric car, they were here before gasoline.

[Exodist]

are you sure they aren't made in the US?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/map%20of%20toyota%20factories%20in%20the%20US/montages/tmc_map1.jpg

Most all Toyotas used in the US are made in the US. Most anyway.

[MasterNetra]

are you sure they aren't made in the US?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/map%20of%20toyota%20factories%20in%20the%20US/montages/tmc_map1.jpg

Many would be made in the US, Just because the company is based in Japan doesn't mean the car isn't made in the US, Toyota has a number of car factories here in the US. And in truth there isn't such thing as 100% American Car as its parts come from all over the globe. If you want to support america just purchase the particular units made here in America, there is some number on one of the doors or something that indicates it via the number 1 i believe, I could be mistaken on the location and number.

[tsali]

They want to inch into a market that has eluded the American car industry.
American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it

The most efficient mid-size hybrid in the US is a FORD (Fusion Hybrid) - and it looks an drives like a real car.

If you haven't driven a Fusion lately, then the statement "American autos are dead" is unfounded. The Fusion drives as well as a Honda Accord. Now all Ford has to do is prove that it's just as reliable.

As far as leaving, a lot of airlines are ready when you are. Hope you enjoy wherever it is you go...

Here's a novel concept...why don't you work to fix the things you don't like here?

[Screwdriver0815]

The Fusion drives as well as a Honda Accord.

so it must be crap then? SCNR :D

[PuddingKnife]

Most of the fuel (oil) used in a cars lifetime is used during its construction.

Prius leaving the states would not make a huge dent in the current economic/energy crisis given the fact that our entire economic paradigm is based on infinite growth on a finite planet.

[Tristam Green]

They want to inch into a market that has eluded the American car industry.
American autos are dead, America itself is dead...
I want out of this friggin country if I could afford it

Door, avoid, backside, way out, etc.

Cheers.

[handy]

Most of the fuel (oil) used in a cars lifetime is used during its construction.

Does that statement include the proportion of costs in finding the raw materials & then, mining, transporting, refining, transporting, extruding, transporting, extruding, transporting, manufacturing, assembling, transporting, storing, transporting, displaying, & then finally delivering the motor vehicle?

Of course there are all of the other costs, including those of the infrastructure; employees & all of the things they do to get to & from work & be looked after whilst there, then there are the insurance companies & government bodies involved, unions (in some countries anyway) & on it goes.

Boy we have an expensive (in oh so many ways) lifestyle. That most of us just take for granted.

[PuddingKnife]

Does that statement include the proportion of costs in finding the raw materials & then, mining, transporting, refining, transporting, extruding, transporting, extruding, transporting, manufacturing, assembling, transporting, storing, transporting, displaying, & then finally delivering the motor vehicle?

Of course there are all of the other costs, including those of the infrastructure; employees & all of the things they do to get to & from work & be looked after whilst there, then there are the insurance companies & government bodies involved, unions (in some countries anyway) & on it goes.

Boy we have an expensive (in oh so many ways) lifestyle. That most of us just take for granted.


Yes. And we do have an expensive, unsustainable lifestyle that threatens the future of industrial civilization. Hybrid cars are too little, too late.

[GMU_DodgyHodgy]

Well I think the talk of American demise yet (Obama and the Dems are trying their hardest though) - you have no where else to go.

My family in Germany is moving over here because of the economy and the dwindling population there and the increase of Muslim immigrants that make them feel unwelcome in their own hometown.

Regarding the American car industry - it has been dealt a blow - A blow it needed to feel because it hase been insulated from the poor decision it made with unions and beauracratic bloat over time.

Ford is doing well because it hammered its unions and lowered its US cost structure three years ago. They have invested in new models and technologies and have good cash flow. GM - while going through bankruptcy - have actually slashed its union contracts and is finally reducing its number of model lines to a reasonable number. It's biggest competitor Toyota has three lines so should GM. Having said that - I bought a new Cadillac CTS and it is an outstanding vehicle. So yeah - we still have some gas in the tank.

Few also realize that many foreign brands are owned by American ones: Mazda and Volvo are owned by Ford. Suzuki and Daewoo by GM. Mitsubishi is actually owned by a US private capital group.

Now regarding the Prius - the law suit is legitimate as there is documented evidence the technology was developed and patented by this company. Unlike software patents - these are legitimate as it is a real physical practical technology.

[handy]

That's the way, hammer the unions.

The last thing we should do is look after the worker...

Let the corporations have it their way, they have been looking after us pretty well really, as a quick glance around the world will show.

I think surfs with hot & cold running water, cooking facilities & a bed, a TV & fridge if they are lucky, are doing pretty well; it should make them feel like it is all worth while, this grinding of a life away for THE MAN.

I'm sure it is all in our best interest in the long run.

[Eddie Wilson]

That's the way, hammer the unions.

The last thing we should do is look after the worker...

Let the corporations have it their way, they have been looking after us pretty well really, as a quick glance around the world will show.

I think surfs with hot & cold running water, cooking facilities & a bed, a TV & fridge if they are lucky, are doing pretty well; it should make them feel like it is all worth while, this grinding of a life away for THE MAN.

I'm sure it is all in our best interest in the long run.

The unions haven't looked after the workers for decades. The thing about union workers is you can still make crappy products and still expect to get paid a lot more than you are worth. The unions has caused most American companies to price themselves right out of the global market with their unreasonable contracts. I've been in several unions and I've seen how they work. Until the bloodsucking unions can be brought under some kind of control more American companies will suffer because of union greed.

[handy]

Just as well there aren't any unions in China eh!

[Groucho Marxist]

According to a bunch of news floating around the web, here's one link;
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2009/10/07/toyota-s-prius-threatened-by-probe.aspx


A company Called Paice LLC is suing Toyota, claiming that Paice invented the Hybrid system that Toyota uses. If the courts does claim that Paice is the legal owner to the system Toyota would have to stop selling its hybrid models in the US.
Strangely when I looked into the Paice company a bit and notice that the management team is made of of many old executives from Ford and GM.

http://www.paice.net/Management/tabid/54/Default.aspx

Something tells me these guys are trying to get one of the most popular of Japanese cars off the road in the US to help the domestic brands a bit.

what do you guys think? Does this sound fishy? Even the court that judging this has been known to side with some fishy stuff in the past.

If the "Big Three" are behind it, at least it would not seem out of character. After all, they're the same companies that caused the downfall of San Fransisco's efficient mass transit system in the late 40's.

[GMU_DodgyHodgy]

That's the way, hammer the unions.

The last thing we should do is look after the worker...

Let the corporations have it their way, they have been looking after us pretty well really, as a quick glance around the world will show.

I think surfs with hot & cold running water, cooking facilities & a bed, a TV & fridge if they are lucky, are doing pretty well; it should make them feel like it is all worth while, this grinding of a life away for THE MAN.

I'm sure it is all in our best interest in the long run.


i think workers and free men can look out for themselves. If you have marketable skills and a solid work ethic - you can get a job and do well for yourself. We have minimum wage in this country along with workplace safety regulation and oversight (OSHA), overtime pay requirements, etc.

It has been many decades since unions have looked out for workers. Compulsory dues, harrassment of people who don't want to join the union, resistance to report on use of union dues, poor management of union pension funds, combative relationship with companies instead of collaborating with them. Union workers at the US auto companies retire at 52 with 95% pay and full medical. The "job banks" pay people not to work - GM alone had 9000 people getting paid to warm a couch. it is not hard to see why many of the newer and successful big three plants are in the south of the US and foreign brands like Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Mitsubishi, and others are building engine, stamping, and assembly plants there.

[handy]

We could have a long (I'm sure) detailed debate on this subject, but it will just be closed for breaching the CoC.

So lets just leave it at knowing that we disagree with each other, & most likely a great deal. You won't change my mind & I won't change yours, so... :popcorn:

[starcannon]

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,520,353&OS=7,520,353&RS=7,520,353
If thats the patent, I can't believe it'll stand. It's so broad, and there is already previous art. Just looks like a vampire to me.

[starcannon]

Most of the fuel (oil) used in a cars lifetime is used during its construction.

Prius leaving the states would not make a huge dent in the current economic/energy crisis given the fact that our entire economic paradigm is based on infinite growth on a finite planet.
+1
emphasis placed by me.