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sidious1741
September 28th, 2009, 08:37 PM
I have two questions on the subject.
1: Besides passports in some countries, where else is RFID being used?
2: Why would anyone use it? I heard that it is "supposed" to help security. How does it do anything for security?

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 08:42 PM
arphids are pretty prevelant but they will become much more common in the near future. they put them in newer credit cards (the ones you wave rather than swipe), work ID badges, Cellphones (in japan you can pay for most things by waving your phone over a receiver), library books, laptops, cargo crates, children, dogs, whales, and just about anythign else you would want to track.

check out the (Fiction) book "Little Brother" to get some of the more likely ways that they will be used in future. not great literature, but a vaguely interesting story.

personally I need to get around to making a faraday cage for my work id, just to prevent accidental contact with a sensor.

xpod
September 28th, 2009, 08:48 PM
I have two questions on the subject.
1: Besides passports in some countries, where else is RFID being used?
2: Why would anyone use it? I heard that it is "supposed" to help security. How does it do anything for security?

How about having it on your school supplied netbook (http://www.itnews.com.au/News/156528,nsw-seeks-to-build-unhackable-netbook-network.aspx) ?

JillSwift
September 28th, 2009, 08:50 PM
My kittehs all have RFIDs under their skin. It's like a collar with tags, only they can't hang themselves with the collar, and the tags can't get lost.

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 08:52 PM
for part 2 of your question, it just makes it easier for humans to perform a methodical task. for instance it is much easier to tag your inventory items, and then walk down each ilse of your warehouse, rather than pull each box off the shelf and scan it or compare the serial number agains your paper list or whatever.
the passports have it embedded so that we can jsut walk through an arch and be identified. it just allows us to be lazy. thats all.

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 08:53 PM
My kittehs all have RFIDs under their skin. It's like a collar with tags, only they can't hang themselves with the collar, and the tags can't get lost.

I had hoped i was being facetious with the "Children" item, but it;s probably only a matter of time.

LowSky
September 28th, 2009, 08:56 PM
The biggest ditrubuter of cheap goods, Walmart, will be using them to help with maintaining time on shipments and for checkout. Less will get lost in transit and that means less Shrink, and in the Retail industry, Shrink is the biggest killer to profits except healthcare but thats not the discussion.

Just think of the day when they can ring you all up, and charge you with out being on a line. You just walk out the door and its done.

CJ Master
September 28th, 2009, 09:01 PM
check out the (Fiction) book "Little Brother" to get some of the more likely ways that they will be used in future. not great literature, but a vaguely interesting story.


I was thinking more along the lines of "Big Brother."

JillSwift
September 28th, 2009, 09:03 PM
I had hoped i was being facetious with the "Children" item, but it;s probably only a matter of time.
Possibly, assuming there really are benefits to chipping your kids. Cat's can't identify themselves to police to help find their way home, and children don't need to have a record of their rabies shots... though come to think of it, they do need a record of their MMR vaccines for school here. Hmmmm...

pwnst*r
September 28th, 2009, 09:17 PM
RFID is fairly easy to crack. i had RFID on my debit card, but also carried it in a faraday cage wallet. my company was going to use it in distribution, but there are quite a few hurdles to overcome which i'm not at liberty to discuss. as mentioned, walmart uses it in distribution.

sidious1741
September 28th, 2009, 09:23 PM
So I see some cool uses for them but where are they used only as a tracking device? For instance, doas777 said that his work uses them. I also heard about a school that used them for "security." If RFID is only for kool things like not needing to be in a line, then why is the EFF and Richard Stallman so against RFID?

gnomeuser
September 28th, 2009, 09:34 PM
How about having it on your school supplied netbook (http://www.itnews.com.au/News/156528,nsw-seeks-to-build-unhackable-netbook-network.aspx) ?

Doesn't seem big on privacy or anonymity though.. I put that thing in the school bag and they can track me everywhere I go. The implications are a bit scary to be honest and it gets people used to being tracked from an early age without I assume teaching them about the impact on your privacy. Nor do I see mention of a policy on how to use this technology, can they just track you regardless or lock your machine down for whatever reason.

It seems like dangerous territory.

Another risk here, they call this thing unhackable but I have not seen any supplementary data from penetration testers nor a protocol for ongoing testing.

You use this device and they know where you go, they determine what you are allowed to see. They finally it seems also decide which OS you will be running as wiping the harddisk appears to render the device useless. Orwell would be proud.

The final concern they are not it appears leveraging the technology to protect the user, say a device is lost or stolen. I didn't notice them deploying encryption or using some of this nifty tech to do crazy crypto for password protection.

I fear this device.

pwnst*r
September 28th, 2009, 09:43 PM
If RFID is only for kool things like not needing to be in a line, then why is the EFF and Richard Stallman so against RFID?

if it has any personal information on it, well, there's your answer.

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 09:48 PM
So I see some cool uses for them but where are they used only as a tracking device? For instance, doas777 said that his work uses them. I also heard about a school that used them for "security." If RFID is only for kool things like not needing to be in a line, then why is the EFF and Richard Stallman so against RFID?

because arphids allow data to flow from the subject (me and my workID) to a database with no human intervention, and without the subjects knowledge. they enable the creation of huge behavorial databases that can be mined for patterns or specific profiles. the applications are almost endless, but they all make privacy impossible for the humans around them.

look at the realid act. realid won;'t have arphids but it will be swipable, and DHS has plans to make scanners for them cheap and plentiful so everyone gets scanned everywhere (going into a bar, or concert hall or museam etc). the mag strip has your entire ID profile embedded in it UNECRYPTED. they discussed it and decided that protecting us by encrypting that data was too expensive and might produce false negatives. so post realid, every bouncer at every bar you go to, will have your name address phone ssn drivers lic # etc.

zmjjmz
September 28th, 2009, 09:56 PM
Unencrypted RFID is unsafe because it can be skimmed/jammed. If implemented correctly, RFID could work to our benefit, but there's a lack of this proper implementation.

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Unencrypted RFID is unsafe because it can be skimmed/jammed. If implemented correctly, RFID could work to our benefit, but there's a lack of this proper implementation.

true, but that requires the people that implement the infrastructure (DHS, banks, employeers) be understanding and respectful to people, and value the individuals right to privacy more than their driving interests.

not going to happen. That is why te EFF and the FSF and the CDT are against them. the only value you can get with them can cut both ways and harm us as easily as help. we simply can't trust folks to do the right thing.

skillllllz
September 28th, 2009, 10:08 PM
true, but that requires the people that implement the infrastructure (DHS, banks, employeers) be understanding and respectful to people, and value the individuals right to privacy more than their driving interests.

not going to happen.


...which is exactly why I use a drill to destroy and remove the RFID chips from all of my credit/debit cards. I don't have one in my passport yet, but when I do, I'll destroy that sucker too.

sidious1741
September 28th, 2009, 10:09 PM
DHS has plans to make scanners for them cheap and plentiful so everyone gets scanned everywhere (going into a bar, or concert hall or museam etc). the mag strip has your entire ID profile embedded in it UNECRYPTED. they discussed it and decided that protecting us by encrypting that data was too expensive and might produce false negatives. so post realid, every bouncer at every bar you go to, will have your name address phone ssn drivers lic # etc.

That's freaky, how is DHS doing on that?

doas777
September 28th, 2009, 11:00 PM
That's freaky, how is DHS doing on that?
not as hot last I checked. 19 states sued over the realid acts fiduciary requirements, so it is in limbo for now, but in the next 2 years some deadlines will hit that require you to use realid or a passport to board any plane, or enter a state park or other state facility. their doing that, so that the states that resist have to answer to their people as to why. personally I wish I was in one of those 19 states...

earthpigg
September 28th, 2009, 11:18 PM
2: Why would anyone use it? I heard that it is "supposed" to help security. How does it do anything for security?

it is not for your security, it is for the security of Big Brother and the State and theoretically to protect your fellow citizens from you.

are you a criminal or intent on harming anyone?

if not, then go ahead smash your passport RFID with a hammer. on accident, of course.

it is not required for your passport to be valid.

handy
September 29th, 2009, 12:03 AM
There are already people who have had their children chipped in the U.S.

The plan is to have everyone chipped, you are then track-able via satellite, you pay as you walk past a scanner for whatever? You become perpetually ID-able; all databases in your life become accessible through the key of the chip injected into your body just after your umbilical cord was cut.

Very scary I think.

If you get offside with the powers that be, then they just turn your chip off. They will also be able to find you easily, unless you dig the chip out. Which then brings to mind the new form of crime where the wealthy are mugged/killed & have their chip stolen to give access to their finances & whatever else.

ID theft will become rife, & the stakes will be much higher than having your credit card, drivers license or passport nicked.

Hopefully the technical problems will remain large enough & the human rights advocates remain loud enough, to stop such a violation of humanity from ever happening.

CJ Master
September 29th, 2009, 02:13 AM
I would leave the US before what handy describes happens. I knew it would happen someday, though. I just hope it's a long, long way aways.

earthpigg
September 29th, 2009, 02:18 AM
I would leave the US before what handy describes happens. I knew it would happen someday, though. I just hope it's a long, long way aways.

well, if you dont leave the US then you are just condemning your grandchildren or children to the fate you fear.

if you really think it is a problem, my vote is for fixing it instead of running.

CJ Master
September 29th, 2009, 02:20 AM
well, if you dont leave the US then you are just condemning your grandchildren or children to the fate you fear.

if you really think it is a problem, my vote is for fixing it instead of running.

Ah - but the beauty of running is that you get results so much faster. ;)

pwnst*r
September 29th, 2009, 02:22 AM
I would leave the US before what handy describes happens. I knew it would happen someday, though. I just hope it's a long, long way aways.

awesome cowardice action.

CJ Master
September 29th, 2009, 02:25 AM
awesome cowardice action.

Oh right, I suppose you'd be the one to stop all of it? It's an message board, it's alright to tell the truth, even if it looks "cowardly." ;)

handy
September 29th, 2009, 02:35 AM
I would leave the US before what handy describes happens. I knew it would happen someday, though. I just hope it's a long, long way aways.

By that time the U.S. borders with both Canada & Mexico will be gone, so you'll have to get yourself down into Southern Central America or risk being thrown overboard by some pirates that take all of your money for the privilege of being a most uncomfortably stored piece of fresh shark food...

Adding your voice to the growing number of human rights activists is a far safer thing to do, it may also keep the various varieties of sharks just that little bit skinnier too. :)

CJ Master
September 29th, 2009, 02:38 AM
By that time the U.S. borders with both Canada & Mexico will be gone, so you'll have to get yourself down into Southern Central America or risk being thrown overboard by some pirates that take all of your money for the privilege of being a most uncomfortably stored piece of fresh shark food...

Adding your voice to the growing number of human rights activists is a far safer thing to do, it may also keep the various varieties of sharks just that little bit skinnier too. :)

I would go to Great Brittan, there's something there I want to do anyway :).

handy
September 29th, 2009, 03:04 AM
I would go to Great Brittan, there's something there I want to do anyway :).

Providing you are allowed out/in, & can afford the various costs, which will continue to increase so as only people of "value" are allowed to cross borders.

Much as it already is today in so many countries, but it will continue to worsen, due to the continual use of the so called security threat that has/is being used against the alien & the poor people by that small group who have something to gain by the use of such tactics.

Anyway, the best we can do is throw our united voices at these selfish ideas; exemplified in this thread by the RFID chip. Say no to having your children chipped, vote against people that are for the expansion of such practices, no matter how good they say it is for YOU, & continue to educate ourselves so we can see the wolves under the wool. ;)

lswb
September 29th, 2009, 03:09 AM
I would go to Great Brittan, there's something there I want to do anyway :).

I believe Great Britain is further along the path of reduced privacy than the USA is at this time. They have a relatively extensive network of cameras and have already had cases of abuse by various authorities using them for purposes beyond their legislated intent.

earthpigg
September 29th, 2009, 03:11 AM
indeed, i would certainly not seek refuge in the UK if i was concerned about to much government meddling in my private affairs...

Frak
September 29th, 2009, 03:50 AM
Say you want to quickly stroll through the market. All you have to do is have your RFID credit card (which are common today) and an RFID on all items you want to purchase. When you want to leave, just make sure everything you want is in your cart, and your card is in your pocket, and stroll through the hood (similar to metal detectors used in airports). All items will be instantly scanned and charged to your RFID credit card. Makes cashiers a thing of the past.

pwnst*r
September 29th, 2009, 03:56 AM
Say you want to quickly stroll through the market. All you have to do is have your RFID credit card (which are common today) and an RFID on all items you want to purchase. When you want to leave, just make sure everything you want is in your cart, and your card is in your pocket, and stroll through the hood (similar to metal detectors used in airports). All items will be instantly scanned and charged to your RFID credit card. Makes cashiers a thing of the past.

hooray for eliminating more jobs!

Frak
September 29th, 2009, 04:08 AM
hooray for eliminating more jobs!
Hate to say it, but we are a service based economy. Manual labor is exported.

handy
September 29th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Say you want to quickly stroll through the market. All you have to do is have your RFID credit card (which are common today) and an RFID on all items you want to purchase. When you want to leave, just make sure everything you want is in your cart, and your card is in your pocket, and stroll through the hood (similar to metal detectors used in airports). All items will be instantly scanned and charged to your RFID credit card. Makes cashiers a thing of the past.

& to extend that further, the status of your pantry can be surveyed remotely, & your shopping list automatically updated for your weekly shopping drop, which you can of course edit to suit your requirements by a certain time & day of the week, before it is automatically dispatched or prepared for your drive through pick up.

I'm sure some people think that is great.

I don't for a variety of reasons.

Too much detailed information regarding the worlds population is in the hands of too few people.

The little corner store where you get personalised service (hell, you even get a person) is disappearing, let alone the speed with which this is happening.

Jobs continue to be displaced by technology. In the end this widens the gab between those who have & those that don't have, & it also snowballs the numbers of those that don't have.

pwnst*r
September 29th, 2009, 05:12 AM
Hate to say it, but we are a service based economy. Manual labor is exported.

still sucks.

either way, the scenario you described has been tested and used in my company's "pop up" stores and it's not a big hit.

Frak
September 29th, 2009, 05:18 AM
The little corner store where you get personalised service (hell, you even get a person) is disappearing, let alone the speed with which this is happening.

That is true. We had a little Grocery mart in town that I liked. Wasn't big, about the size of say a reasonable flat (without the walls), but it had great people in it. The person who owned the larger store in town, named Sooners, lowered their prices until the other store had to close down. Even though the prices were (way) higher at the smaller store, I still shopped there.

Anyways, there was also this woman who sold bootlegged jewelry. She also tried to fraud people out of money through bill payments. (You need to pay your bills, you go to her, pay a fee, and she'll send the obligation to the companies say that it was successfully paid that day)
She was recently evicted from her storefront because the owner had sold his space to IHOP. And I'm happy because she stole at least $400 from me.

I know that was off-topic, but it happened, and it was interesting.:)

handy
September 29th, 2009, 08:56 AM
On that one Frak: When we get ripped off by a little person, I think (anyway) that many of us actually have some chance of being able to afford the litigation & such (if it comes to that?), but when we are dealing with corporations, let alone multi-national corporations, & then as we go up the levels of corporate power, there are those at the top, that use the revolving door at the highest levels of government & corporate directorship.

So as we ascend these levels, the chances for a single person being able to acquire an equitable result diminishes dramatically.

Occasionally a class action makes it through the system here & there in the world, & they sometimes have a massive win (Philip Morris comes to mind :)). These are not just very rare, they are so rare that they are priceless, when compared to the consistent inequitable harvesting of all of the individual's (that are collectively called humanity's) resources that is going on 24/7 in ALL but a tiny part of this world.

The resources that I am referring to are more than what most individuals consider in their day to day lives.

When a rainforest like the Amazon, is being decimated at a ridiculous speed, or dead zones are appearing & growing in our oceans, or deserts are growing in Australia & Africa; the people (who actually have communication media) aren't having this incredibly important information pumped into them every evening & throughout the day, via their news bulletins.

Why?

Because the shareholder's returns (which turn into directors having increased bonuses) are paramount, & the news corporations are in on the act; also because (I can't believe I have to say this) they (99.99% of all corporations, & their management) only exist to make profit, & to gain more political power & real assets, which in the end they can just call profit. (Not all corporations are into profit no matter what the human or environmental cost that they can manage to get away with.)

Have you noticed, that it is all but impossible for an outsider, to actually be able to find an individual inside a corporation that is responsible for anything!

This makes corporations (the larger the harder) very likely the hardest target, when it comes to making them face their humanitarian & environmental responsibilities.

Whether it be an individual, a group, or even in some cases a national government (depending on how high up the corporate tree we are) that is trying to get a corporation to behave responsibly, the cards can be very much stacked against them, as the corporations, due to their wealth, use the smartest number crunchers & legal eagles to protect them from any possible costs. This of course includes taxes.

The RFID chip & associated technology would ultimately be controlled by those that own the banking cartels; they already own & control most if not all of the governments that they are interested in; & obviously any country where the population has a debt.

If you think that, that is a silly statement, then I'll translate it into the following interpretation: The wealthiest people on the planet will own this technology, because they can. If you were that wealthy, why wouldn't you? (Some of us would choose differently, but such a choice is not the most common human nature, though having said that, that doesn't mean that because most would, that it is ok.)

(I can't pursue this any further on this forum, I hope I haven't already stretched it too far. I don't want this thread closed due to my input. So anyone who does want to pursue it beyond the Ubuntu forums code of conduct, please click on the OS Talk forum link in my signature & start/join a thread there?)

Eisenwinter
September 29th, 2009, 12:21 PM
it just allows us to be lazy. thats all.
Yes, and it also allows the government to track your every move, and know your location 24/7.

The location of the RFID chip, at least, and since you think it'll make life more comfortable, people will carry it with them 24/7.

This thing should be destroyed.

Their goal is to get everyone chipped with an RFID microchip, and if you don't obey, they'll simply turn off your chip, and then you can't participate in society.

Refuse to obey "authority"? They'll turn off your chip. You can't buy anything, you can't use any new technology, and so on...

etnlIcarus
September 29th, 2009, 01:15 PM
If RFID is only for kool things like not needing to be in a line, then why is the EFF ... so against RFID?

Well that is mildly worrying.


If RFID is only for kool things like not needing to be in a line, then why is ... Richard Stallman so against RFID?

Well that is mildly comforting.



Ambivalence. http://uyac.com.au/forum/images/smilies/psyduck.gif

Edit: Lock in 3, 2, 1...

gnomeuser
September 29th, 2009, 01:29 PM
I am reminded of this classic essay (http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0606.html#1) on the value of privacy.

xpod
September 29th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Doesn't seem big on privacy or anonymity though.. I put that thing in the school bag and they can track me everywhere I go. The implications are a bit scary to be honest and it gets people used to being tracked from an early age without I assume teaching them about the impact on your privacy. Nor do I see mention of a policy on how to use this technology, can they just track you regardless or lock your machine down for whatever reason.

It seems like dangerous territory.

Another risk here, they call this thing unhackable but I have not seen any supplementary data from penetration testers nor a protocol for ongoing testing.

You use this device and they know where you go, they determine what you are allowed to see. They finally it seems also decide which OS you will be running as wiping the harddisk appears to render the device useless. Orwell would be proud.

The final concern they are not it appears leveraging the technology to protect the user, say a device is lost or stolen. I didn't notice them deploying encryption or using some of this nifty tech to do crazy crypto for password protection.

I fear this device.

I`m with you.The whole idea just feels rather uncomfortable.
I`m sure many here would have great fun with the thing though, breaching that agreement they`d signed in every way possible.

pwnst*r
September 29th, 2009, 01:58 PM
I am reminded of this classic essay (http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0606.html#1) on the value of privacy.

great read, although i'll link to the original author's page (Wired)

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2006/05/70886

wersdaluv
September 29th, 2009, 02:03 PM
They're going to use it here for car registration stickers

doas777
September 29th, 2009, 03:42 PM
They're going to use it here for car registration stickers

likely, but they already have cameras for that, that are available for rent appearently:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/28/dvla_castrol/

sidious1741
September 29th, 2009, 10:45 PM
I have a couple of thoughts. If you can basically walk out of a store with groceries, I would love to pull out my RFID credit card of my own home-made aluminium wallet to buy groceries. Just pull it out and then put it back in. What's wrong with that?

The thought that RFID will help with security sounds very familiar with the big public key cryptography thing from 1970-now. "People's lives are at steak!!!" I'm one that greatly values truth. Was there ever a case where public key crypto costed lives? The worse that I heard is that ONE kid-napper had an encrypted document on his computer. So how will it help with security? I think the security card is pretty poor. But about cameras, the cameras can't identify your face and track it. I'm against RFID anything but isn't the security thing is more valid for cameras?

My biggest concern is realid.


look at the realid act. realid won;'t have arphids but it will be swipable, and DHS has plans to make scanners for them cheap and plentiful so everyone gets scanned everywhere (going into a bar, or concert hall or museam etc). the mag strip has your entire ID profile embedded in it UNECRYPTED. they discussed it and decided that protecting us by encrypting that data was too expensive and might produce false negatives. so post realid, every bouncer at every bar you go to, will have your name address phone ssn drivers lic # etc.


in the next 2 years some deadlines will hit that require you to use realid or a passport to board any plane, or enter a state park or other state facility.

sidious1741
September 29th, 2009, 10:58 PM
Well that is mildly worrying.



Well that is mildly comforting.



Ambivalence. http://uyac.com.au/forum/images/smilies/psyduck.gif

Edit: Lock in 3, 2, 1...

What's that supposed to mean?

skillllllz
September 29th, 2009, 11:09 PM
...I would love to pull out my RFID credit card of my own home-made aluminium wallet to buy groceries. Just pull it out and then put it back in. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all in that scenario. That is simply your choice, as it is mine to not have to use RFID at all. As long as there is a choice to not have to use it, I and many others will be quite happy.


But about cameras, the cameras can't identify your face and track it.

Yet... The technology isn't quite there yet, but it is in fact on its way.

As with any technology, you can bet that someone, somewhere, at some time, is going to attempt to abuse it.

doas777
September 30th, 2009, 12:50 AM
I have a couple of thoughts. If you can basically walk out of a store with groceries, I would love to pull out my RFID credit card of my own home-made aluminium wallet to buy groceries. Just pull it out and then put it back in. What's wrong with that?

The thought that RFID will help with security sounds very familiar with the big public key cryptography thing from 1970-now. "People's lives are at steak!!!" I'm one that greatly values truth. Was there ever a case where public key crypto costed lives? The worse that I heard is that ONE kid-napper had an encrypted document on his computer. So how will it help with security? I think the security card is pretty poor. But about cameras, the cameras can't identify your face and track it. I'm against RFID anything but isn't the security thing is more valid for cameras?

My biggest concern is realid.

well here is an example for arphids gone wrong:
embed them in every car licensed in a county. then install sensors in each intersection.
now you have the ability to create a database that is constantly updated on exactly where everyone goes at all times, with no human intervention.

in terms of encryption, most would bring up enigma. the allies claim that allen turing breaking the code won them the war.

sdowney717
September 30th, 2009, 01:29 AM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98386

killer chips


LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER
'Killer Chip' tracks humans, releases poison
Saudi inventor applies for rights to GPS-linked lethal security device
Posted: May 16, 2009
11:00 pm Eastern

By Jay Baggett
2009 WorldNetDaily

Chip implant

You can run, but you cannot hide ... and if you try, one push of a button will cause a lethal poison to immediately begin flowing through your body.

That's the Orwellian future a Saudi inventor was seeking to bring to Germany until that nation's patent office announced last week it was rejecting his request to patent what has been dubbed the "Killer Chip."

The tiny semiconductor device is intended to be surgically implanted or injected into the body, according to the patent application, for the purpose of tracking visitors from other nations by global-positioning satellites and preventing them from overstaying their visas.

t0p
September 30th, 2009, 02:20 AM
But about cameras, the cameras can't identify your face and track it.

Facial recognition is far from perfected yet, but it gets better all the time. The technology in use in the London borough of Newham and in Birmingham (UK) at the start of the decade was not very good - there were claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_system#Effectiveness) that it never recognized a single criminal's face (but there were also claims that it reduced crime in Newham by 34%) - but in 2006 facial recognition algorithms were evaluated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_system#Recent_Improvements) to be between 10 and 100 times more effective than the early systems. Some of the algorithms were able to outperform human participants in recognizing faces and could uniquely identify identical twins. UK security company Zycomm claim that their facial recognition system has an 80 or 90 per cent chance (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/13/face_ware_hotel_guests/) of recognising someone in its files. BAE Systems have CCTV technology that can read lips (http://www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-34258.htm) as well as recognize faces. And now there's software called "Intelligent Pedestrian Surveillance (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3918-smart-software-linked-to-cctv-can-spot-dubious-behaviour.html)" which can apparently "spot dubious behaviour".

There are 1 million cameras in London, over 4 million in the UK as a whole. The UK has 1% of the world's population and over 20% of the world's cameras. And one important question is: what are all the CCTV cameras in the UK for? Not to catch criminals. The Metropolitan police admit that that only one crime per year is solved for every 1,000 CCTV cameras installed in the UK (http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/londons-million-cctv-cameras-highly-ineffective-in-solving-crimes). No, the cameras are there to watch us. And I'm sure RFID will also be used for surveillance, despite all the stuff we're told about avoiding queues in supermarkets.

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 11:51 AM
What's that supposed to mean?

Ditto.

sidious1741
September 30th, 2009, 12:03 PM
Ditto.

I'm so confused. I just don't understand what you're saying about Stallman and the EFF.

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 12:35 PM
The implication was that Stallman being worried about it, meant it probably wasn't anything to be worried about.

God damn, I hate having to explain jokes.

pwnst*r
September 30th, 2009, 02:08 PM
kinda takes the fun out of it.

sidious1741
September 30th, 2009, 02:11 PM
The implication was that Stallman being worried about it, meant it probably wasn't anything to be worried about.

God damn, I hate having to explain jokes.

I know what you mean, but at least now I understand. What confused me is that you said "mildly comforting" instead of "nothing to worry about"

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 02:19 PM
I would complain about the direction this thread's taken but truth be told, it's better than the emotional pow-wow and broad-come-ridiculous ideological assertions that cluttered up the previous pages.

Any other jokes you want to pick apart? I know there's a bunch of Venture Bros references I've slipped into my posts, over the last couple of months. Want to dissect that?

doas777
September 30th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I would complain about the direction this thread's taken but truth be told, it's better than the emotional pow-wow and broad-come-ridiculous ideological assertions that cluttered up the previous pages.

Any other jokes you want to pick apart? I know there's a bunch of Venture Bros references I've slipped into my posts, over the last couple of months. Want to dissect that?

so i guess we should call you big brother? looking after all of us benevolently of course. 'casue we should trust you, right?

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Because if I'm not with you, I'm part of the conspiracy!

doas777
September 30th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Because if I'm not with you, I'm part of the conspiracy!
no, more that your making light of somthing i take seriously and care about. that is never nice.

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 02:44 PM
Don't get me wrong, I agree that privacy is of great importance. It's just that the general tone of this thread is ...well, it makes me embarrassed to have reached the same conclusions as many of the people here, who've either developed/bought into elaborate narratives, and/or pay such lip service to staying abreast of affairs, that all they have to contribute is vague insinuations about how 'they're always out to get you/keep you down'. The occasional interspersion of technical discussion, is the only thing that redeems this thread.

This thread wasn't serious to begin with. If you take the subject seriously, you should be as disappointed as I.

doas777
September 30th, 2009, 02:52 PM
fair enough

etnlIcarus
September 30th, 2009, 03:12 PM
My contributions would be more constructive but who are we kidding: even if we don't become mired in a discussion about what a horrible person I am, the moment an argument starts, the mods will decide to enforce the no politics rule.

sidious1741
September 30th, 2009, 06:11 PM
My contributions would be more constructive but who are we kidding: even if we don't become mired in a discussion about what a horrible person I am, the moment an argument starts, the mods will decide to enforce the no politics rule.

I know what you mean. I started this thread just to get a better idea of what is actually happenning with RFID. I wanted to hear what multiple people have to say about it instead of reading articles written by usually one person. Though there is a lot of arguing, I have learned a lot from this thread. I had never heard of realid before. But I do agree that this tread has gotten very political.

mkendall
October 1st, 2009, 02:17 AM
The implication was that Stallman being worried about it, meant it probably wasn't anything to be worried about.

God damn, I hate having to explain jokes.

Eh, what do you know from funny? pff