IBM (and Canonical) takes on Microsoft

[longtom]

See here (www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26548:ibm-takes-on-microsoft&catid=69:business&Itemid=58).

Will Microsoft take note or shrug it off like an elefant shrugs of a fly....

[koshatnik]

No one shrugs off IBM as if they were a fly. They are in the top 3 biggest IT companies on the planet.

[RiceMonster]

No one shrugs off IBM as if they were a fly. They are in the top 3 biggest IT companies on the planet.

As for as I know, they are larger and very likely more profitable than Microsoft. They are ranked 14th on fortune 500, whereas Microsoft is ranked 35th. Definitely not a company to shrug off.

[longtom]

As for as I know, they are larger and very likely more profitable than Microsoft. They are ranked 14th on fortune 500, whereas Microsoft is ranked 35th. Definitely not a company to shrug off.

Point taken. So - how much of a possible threat is this to Microsoft?

[lykwydchykyn]

How about instead of asking what this is going to do to Microsoft, we look at what it's going to do for Ubuntu, Linux, and FOSS. We've got IBM pushing a desktop Linux solution for large businesses based on Ubuntu.

Once there are a few major deployments of this, I predict good things for the quality of Ubuntu in general. I suppose the biggest downside I see it that the bundle is based around Lotus which is proprietary, so no improvements coming back to OpenOffice.org or any FOSS mail clients here.

[scragar]

Point taken. So - how much of a possible threat is this to Microsoft?

Not much unfornately, it's very hard to get people to consider switching OS, and even if you offer very cheap systems most people will either take the cheap system and install illegal copies of windows, or buy one and take it back because they can't install some windows based game without a load of work(installing wine, configuring wine, installing program, running into a problem, tech support for game doesn't support linux...).

[RiceMonster]

Not much unfornately, it's very hard to get people to consider switching OS, and even if you offer very cheap systems most people will either take the cheap system and install illegal copies of windows, or buy one and take it back because they can't install some windows based game without a load of work(installing wine, configuring wine, installing program, running into a problem, tech support for game doesn't support linux...).

This is not targeted towards consumers. Read the article.

[lykwydchykyn]

EDIT: RiceMonster beat me to it. I'll make this post worthwhile:

What you have to keep in mind about IBM is that they don't sell software, they sell solutions. In other words, it's not just "here's a disc, go do whatever (just don't break the EULA)", it's "Let's look at your needs and sell you the hardware/software/support package that will take care of all your needs".


This bundle is a "solution" aimed at specific situations with specific needs at a certain pricepoint. They have "solutions" that use Windows as well.

That's not to say that it's small potatoes for a company the size (and history) of IBM using Ubuntu as part of a desktop solution; but the spin that this is IBM and Canonical "taking on Microsoft" misses the mark a bit.

[scragar]

This is not targeted towards consumers. Read the article.

I read the first half of the article, I stopped reading after that because the advert covered some of the text, reloading the page fixed it. Sorry.

I have to say if you can get a goverment to switch to open source it looks like a real move for the future, I do hope that trend continues.

[Sealbhach]

How about instead of asking what this is going to do to Microsoft, we look at what it's going to do for Ubuntu, Linux, and FOSS. We've got IBM pushing a desktop Linux solution for large businesses based on Ubuntu.


Yup, it's a huge endorsement for Canonical, will help them get more PC vendors to provide an Ubuntu alternative.

.

[Bölvaður]

This is aimed at South Africa where the customers are more likely to support a fellow southafrican.
It has nothing to do with Mircosoft at all, but more of Ubuntu possibly gaining momentum in South Africa, which is a good start.

What I imagine is that there will not be too much happening for us because of this just yet. It might lead to bigger things, but only if this will be successful.

Microsoft actually have people to lobby against their competition, but I guess IBM knows that already pretty well.

[Groucho Marxist]

As for as I know, they are larger and very likely more profitable than Microsoft. They are ranked 14th on fortune 500, whereas Microsoft is ranked 35th. Definitely not a company to shrug off.

I don't think Microsoft should be messing with a company that openly allied itself with Nazi Germany and aided in the destruction of millions of human beings (http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/home.php) {the book, btw, is terrifying when contemplating how pervasive the company is in the 21st century}.

[RiceMonster]

I don't think Microsoft should be messing with a company that openly allied itself with Nazi Germany and aided in the destruction of millions of human beings (http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/home.php) {the book, btw, is terrifying when contemplating how pervasive the company is in the 21st century}.

Wow, that's COMPLETELY relevant to this topic!

Why do we always have to delve into how evil the company at hand is?

[spoons]

Wow, that's COMPLETELY relevant to this topic!

Also it doesn't exactly look unbiased...

[Dragonbite]

Didn't read it all (lunchtime) but sounds interesting.

Canonical's and Ubuntu's position gives it the unique advantage over Red Hat or Novell. The Community driven/developed version is also the company supported version is the "best of both worlds" and I can't think of any company (post-RH9) in the same position.

[cityrama]

This is aimed at South Africa where the customers are more likely to support a fellow southafrican.
It has nothing to do with Mircosoft at all, but more of Ubuntu possibly gaining momentum in South Africa, which is a good start.

What I imagine is that there will not be too much happening for us because of this just yet. It might lead to bigger things, but only if this will be successful.

Microsoft actually have people to lobby against their competition, but I guess IBM knows that already pretty well.

But Canonical is a UK company. with Ubuntu being just one piece of they software.

[ddrichardson]

I don't think Microsoft should be messing with a company that openly allied itself with Nazi Germany and aided in the destruction of millions of human beings (http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/home.php) {the book, btw, is terrifying when contemplating how pervasive the company is in the 21st century}.
Playing devil's advocate, IBM have never acknowledged the allegations.

On the other hand, as a company they offer health benefits to same sex partners, the Stonewall UK equality index (http://w3.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Search_the_Database&Template=/CustomSource/WorkNet/srch_dtl.cfm&srchtype=QS&searchid=34&orgid=1238) rates them first, they have been rated in the top hundred (http://web.archive.org/web/20041017073511/http://www.workingwoman.com/top10.html) working mother friendly companies and have been employing a disabled veterans since the first world war.

[Grenage]

the book, btw, is terrifying when contemplating how pervasive the company is in the 21st century

I also found it terrifying; it's terrifying that any company would agree to publish such a book. It was poorly written and rife with speculation.

Back on topic: It's nice news; I don't know how much difference it will make, but it's great to have ties with such a ubiquitous company.

[Groucho Marxist]

Wow, that's COMPLETELY relevant to this topic!

Why do we always have to delve into how evil the company at hand is?

Ignoring the sardonic undertones of the above post, I strongly believe that it is relevant. IBM seeks profits where they can find it, just as all capitalist enterprises do. However, I offered a historical counterpoint to the discussion to illustrate just how far this company has gone to seek said profit.

[lykwydchykyn]

If the same folks that ran IBM in 1933 are still running it today, I'd really be scared.

[RiceMonster]

Ignoring the sardonic undertones of the above post, I strongly believe that it is relevant. IBM seeks profits where they can find it, just as all capitalist enterprises do. However, I offered a historical counterpoint to the discussion to illustrate just how far this company has gone to seek said profit.

No, it is not relevant. It's nearing 70 years ago that this happened. The company has gone through a lot of different changes and is run by different people. Do you really think the people running IBM today would condone these actions? I'm sorry, but you cannot hold the current people running IBM accountable for these action just like you cannot hold the current people running Germany accountable for the actions of the Nazis. The people involved at the time, yes, they are fully accountable and what they did is horrible. However, we are talking about different times and different people.

Again, why do these discussions ALWAYS end up being about why the company at hand is evil?

[Bölvaður]

But Canonical is a UK company. with Ubuntu being just one piece of they software.

I am a bit lost.
I dont think that is relevant to my post. MS is considered from SA and what does Canonical has to do with anything? It's not like they own Ubuntu, only the trademark and they are the biggest contributor to the project.. but that has nothing to do with what I said I would assume.

I am very very puzzled.

[Groucho Marxist]

No, it is not relevant. It's nearing 70 years ago that this happened. The company has gone through a lot of different changes and is run by different people. Do you really think the people running IBM today would condone these actions? I'm sorry, but you cannot hold the current people running IBM accountable for these action just like you cannot hold the current people running Germany accountable for the actions of the Nazis. The people involved at the time, yes, they are fully accountable and what they did is horrible. However, we are talking about different times and different people.

Again, why do these discussions ALWAYS end up being about why the company at hand is evil?

The above proposes a "white-washing" of history wherein present parties are allowed to remain ignorant to information which may affect how the transaction occurs. I am proposing an examination of attitudes and behaviors pertaining to this company so that I can ascertain whether or not I wish to associate with said company.

[MasterNetra]

As for as I know, they are larger and very likely more profitable than Microsoft. They are ranked 14th on fortune 500, whereas Microsoft is ranked 35th. Definitely not a company to shrug off.

Don't think thats accurate. According to CNN IBM ranks Number 8 as most profitable for 2009. While Microsoft ranks 3rd.(source (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/companies/profits/)) As for Biggest Company in 2009, IBM holds at 9th place, while Microsoft is 3rd. (source (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/companies/biggest/)) Still though IBM is not a company to shrug off. Of course the rankings are not to the IT Field Specificaly but rather out of the full Fortunate 500, but still both much higher up the latter with M$ above...for now.

[OceanWinds]

I think cannonical has a ways to come before it can become competitive with microsoft. Its not user friendly, or user friendly enough in alot of areas... and this will be where microsoft dominates. I am the most knowledgable in my circles when it comes to computers, and I struggle quite a bit wit ubuntu. lol... and maybe that doesnt mean much, but I could see alot of people throwing their puters out the window when they cant get their wireless goin.

Once Cannonical has an OS which the average person can use/transition to very very easily... then Microsoft will have a good reason to be nervous.

Aswell I have seen some of the units they send down to africa. They are bare bottom units, and not much can be done to modify the machines OS. They are strictly geared towards internet usage, and have a few basic tools... and maybe a usb slot to pull off documents. So maybe if is a bare bottom machine I could see cannonical and ibm being competitive.

AS for the notebook market in north america and europe. I dont see how any opensource operating system can compete with windows yet. Maybe this is my own experience... but I find anything wireless with opensource takes alot of tweaking. Not to mention everything in OpenSource takes alot more tweaking to get working than windows. But I find especially bluetooth and wireless networking. Something I dont find with windows. I still think windows is brutal... I cant stand using it.

I guess I think its just a bit Naive to think cannonical and ibm could take out microsoft just yet.

Just my 2 cents.

[ddrichardson]

It's surprising how many people don't read the original article before posting on a public forum.

[j.bell730]

Don't think thats accurate. According to CNN IBM ranks Number 8 as most profitable for 2009. While Microsoft ranks 3rd.(source (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/companies/profits/)) As for Biggest Company in 2009, IBM holds at 9th place, while Microsoft is 3rd. (source (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/companies/biggest/)) Still though IBM is not a company to shrug off. Of course the rankings are not to the IT Field Specificaly but rather out of the full Fortunate 500, but still both much higher up the latter with M$ above...for now.

We're talking about different lists (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/full_list/) here. Check numbers 14 and 35.

EDIT - Edited from 2008 list to 2009.

[Dragonbite]

The above proposes a "white-washing" of history wherein present parties are allowed to remain ignorant to information which may affect how the transaction occurs. I am proposing an examination of attitudes and behaviors pertaining to this company so that I can ascertain whether or not I wish to associate with said company.

And in those days nobody did business w/Nazi's or Japan? You cannot judge past indiscretions with today's principals. Hindsight is 20/20 (actually, no it is not, but we'd like to think it is).

I may have my history wrong, but I thought the concentration camps and extent of the Holocaust came to light closer to the end of the war and so in the beginning it was just a power-mongering country trying to seize control.

Should America be darned because they didn't jump into the war immediately, instead waiting until the attacks started effecting America?

Should I be paying back people I've never met because my family came from a Southern (USA) state and had a plantation until some time after the (American) Civil War?

Ok, enough politics and stuff. This post is not to become political (yeah, I know.. I just did, but I will stop now), it is about Canonical and IBM working together to get FOSS and Linux on the desktops of enterprises.

[NormanFLinux]

The initiative is targeted at Third World governments. The alliance between IBM and Canonical will help to reshape the server market in much of the world. Take that Redmond!

[DeadSuperHero]

Random point, does this picture of Mark Shuttleworth remind anyone else of Russel Crowe from "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"?

Or at least some kind of sea captain?


http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/pictures/Mark_Shuttleworth-new.jpg


He should try and rock that look more often.

[JDShu]

I lol'd at the picture.

If these solutions can really reduce costs for developing nation governments, that would be awesome. If a side effect was more widespread usage of open standards, so much the better!

[Exodist]

I am for anything that has the potential to **** off Ballmer. :)

[lykwydchykyn]

It's surprising how many people don't read the original article before posting on a public forum.

Par for the course, really...

[pookiebear]

P.R. have to wait for 6 months and see if it takes off. The MS spin was just to see if it would get some traction in the press.
IBM should have been selling linux on the Thinkpads WAY before they sold that division off to lenovo.

[dragos240]

Netbook wise, I think microsoft will be panicking. Their operating systems use more ram, more video memory, and the Linux one's do more. I think Linux will dominate the netbook industry.

[Dragonbite]

P.R. have to wait for 6 months and see if it takes off. The MS spin was just to see if it would get some traction in the press.
IBM should have been selling linux on the Thinkpads WAY before they sold that division off to lenovo.

I thought they tried selling with Linux (IBM or Lenovo) installed, using SLED (Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop).

The problem is that SLED is company backed, but openSUSE has the community support and is more usable than SLED.

As opposed to Ubuntu where it benefits from the community involvement *AND* corporate backing and support.

Maybe Red Hat should not have abandoned this structure way back with Red Hat 9.0?

[KiwiNZ]

This not about politics past or present . please keep it out of this thread.

[Mark76]

I think cannonical has a ways to come before it can become competitive with microsoft. Its not user friendly, or user friendly enough in alot of areas...

Justify that remark.

I won't have people dropping in randomly claiming that Ubuntu/Linux isn't user friendly and providing no proof to back up their claims.

Point to one instance where Windows is more User Friendly than Ubuntu that Ubuntu has any control over.

[MasterNetra]

justify that remark.

I won't have people dropping in randomly claiming that ubuntu/linux isn't user friendly and providing no proof to back up their claims.

Point to one instance where windows is more user friendly than ubuntu that ubuntu has any control over.

+1

[mkendall]

I think cannonical has a ways to come before it can become competitive with microsoft. Its not user friendly, or user friendly enough in alot of areas...

My counter argument, if MS is so user-friendly how come I want to kick my dog in frustration every time I have to use it? Case in point, when I hook up my laptop directly to my router Network Manager automatically detects it and switches from eth1 to eth0. Windows? Not at all, in fact, I have to spend 5-15 minutes trying to figure out how to get Windows to recognize the new connection before I get fed up with it all and simply reboot the system (and then wait 5+ minutes before I can do anything.)

Microsoft user friendly? Hardly.

[GMU_DodgyHodgy]

I work for IBM In their Global Business Services unit. So I have a perspective on how IBM sees linux and open source.

To point to a previous poster - IBM is in the business of selling solutiona - integrated hardware/software/services stack to address enterprise wide/government problems. GBS was set up to take IBM verticals (Hardware/Software/Micro0electronics/services) and develop solutions.

However - having said that - the past 5years has seen movement to get a presence on the desktop. There has been a huge investment in its Lotus software line (Notes/Sametime/Symphony et al) which has resulted in gains against MS Exchange. However, they also invested resources in getting all of our desktop and middleware (Websphere products) to run on all platforms - Windows, OSX, and Linux. Internally we have consultants using all platforms for their laptops (Windows/Linux (ubuntu & Novell) and OSX) to see how this software platforms integrate together with IBM software.

To date it has worked very well. You even see partners in GBS on financial management projects using Apple laptops running OSX or Thinkpads running Ubuntu. The idea is if IBM can run its internal business and prepare client deliverables on all these platforms - then it can be made a viable offering to other businesses.

It is safe to say there is a lot more going on inside IBM regarding Linux and open source than meets the eye in this article and it is being done to prepare for something on a larger scale.

[toupeiro]

This is pretty exciting news and a great position for Canonical to be in.

This article is sort of all over the place with terminology and business models. Do I think netbooks will take off? Yes. Do I think cloud computing at the home business model will be achieved through thin clients? no. The article doesn't really have a solid direction of which markets they are most interested in, business or personal. It talks about being geared towards African governments, but it suggests quite a bit more. I'd like to read this from a source a bit more .. levelheaded?? Either way, very exciting news for ubuntu.