UK amends guidelines on assisted suicide prosecutions

[t0p]

The director of public prosecutions in England & Wales has announced that family members who assist a relative to commit suicide will not be prosecuted as long as they do not maliciously encourage them and assist only a "clear, settled and informed wish" to die (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/23/assisted-suicide-guidelines-legal). The move comes after the law lords ruled earlier this year that Debbie Purdy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/jul/30/debbie-purdy-assisted-suicide-legal-victory), who has multiple sclerosis, had the right to know whether her husband, Omar Puente, would be prosecuted if he helped her travel abroad to die, backing her call for a clear policy statement on the risk of prosecution.

This hasn't legalized assisting a suicide in England & Wales. But it does mean that people who, for instance, help a terminally ill relative go to the Swiss suicide clinic Dignitas, will no longer face prosecution on return to the UK.

[bodyharvester]

question: this thread concerns law rather than politics, i think, so will it be closed?

also its about time they clarified that law

[handy]

Thanks for posting that link t0p, it reflects a large step forward; to me anyway.

[t0p]

question: this thread concerns law rather than politics, i think, so will it be closed?


My opinion (perhaps unsurprisingly, as thread starter) is that there's no reason to close this thread. It isn't about religion or politics, and it isn't causing any "drama".

It's also a very interesting subject that I'm sure a lot of forum members will like to debate.

[bodyharvester]

My opinion (perhaps unsurprisingly, as thread starter) is that there's no reason to close this thread. It isn't about religion or politics, and it isn't causing any "drama".

It's also a very interesting subject that I'm sure a lot of forum members will like to debate.

i understand, i hope it does create a useful and informative debate.

[handy]

Anyway, if it falls in a heap here, bring it over to the General section of otherOS.org & we can pursue it there. ;)

[t0p]

One reason often given by opponents to changing the guidelines is the danger that some people might be pressured into suicide by relatives who want tthem out of the way. I think this issue has been resolved by the fact that assisting a suicide hasn't actually been legalized, and that the guidelines specify that you can only help someone who has a strong, stated desire to kill him/herself. If there's any suggestion that someone's been pressured or "persuaded" to take his/her own life, the police will investigate and prosecution may follow.

[ChrT]

I'm all for stupid people seeking permanent solutions to temporary problems. In fact, those of them too dumb to do it themselves should be entitled to any help they need in carrying out their (lack of) will.

[etnlIcarus]

I'm all for stupid people seeking permanent solutions to temporary problems. In fact, those of them too dumb to do it themselves should be entitled to any help they need in carrying out their (lack of) will.

Troll troll is troll.

Also, you can spin it however you want but far less politically-charged subjects have been locked under the Mickey Mouse rule.

I might've agreed with you but if experience has taught me anything, it's that these forums don't deserve nice things. :P

[handy]

It is a very complex problem.

Particularly because greed is such a strong motivator in so many people.

This causes not just family members, but doctors & other hospital staff (even hospitals) to become involved in the offing of someone for the benefit of one or more 3rd parties short term personal gain.

[handy]

I'll make a translation of etnlIcarus' post & say that there is little chance that this thread will last due to the percentage of immature participants in this sub-forum, & also due to the possibility of religious fundamentalism raising its ugly head.

I surely do hope that it does go the distance as it is most certainly an interesting topic, & not only interesting, but one that is becoming more pertinent every day as our populations age & the non-renewable resources that the lifestyle of the world we know depend on dwindle at an ever increasing rate.

[etnlIcarus]

Nah, the Mickey Mouse rule is: imagine any post as said by Mickey Mouse. If you're having trouble imagining it, that post is too grown-up for these forums.

Like I said, I might've supported this thread, had I not been jaded by my experiences on these boards, of late.

Edit: Also, religious fundamentalism seems to be the least of UF's crazy.

[handy]

Nah, the Mickey Mouse rule is: imagine any post as said by Mickey Mouse. If you're having trouble imagining it, that post is too grown-up for these forums.

Like I said, I might've supported this thread, had I not been jaded by my experiences on these boards, of late.

Under those circumstances, then you should go & not return, you are giving nothing, & basically becoming a troll that will most likely hasten the closure of this thread.

[etnlIcarus]

No, I still enjoy these forums. It's only the subjects of substance that really grate me. Well, not the subjects themselves; more the responses they and I receive.

[handy]

No, I still enjoy these forums. It's only the subjects of substance that really grate me. Well, not the subjects themselves; more the responses they and I receive.

Cya, this thread is stuffed already as far as substance is concerned. & I was right, you are a troll. :(

[Edit:] I'll put you in my ignore list & cross my fingers for the thread. :)

[etnlIcarus]

Cya, this thread is stuffed already as far as substance is concerned. & I was right, you are a troll. :(

[Edit:] I'll put you in my ignore list & cross my fingers for the thread. :)

Nothing I've said would seem to warrant the conclusion that I'm a troll. This wouldn't have anything to do with our earlier discourse, would it?

[bodyharvester]

Nothing I've said would seem to warrant the conclusion that I'm a troll. This wouldn't have anything to do with our earlier discourse, would it?

troll...is overused nowadays.

[etnlIcarus]

On these forums, yes. Make any contravening point and you're accused of being a troll, at the very least.

[bodyharvester]

slang changes so quickly, to be a troll could be nothing more than state a difference of opinion

EDIT: i would like to hear from people who live in other countries what their legal status on assisted suicides is like, if they know

[etnlIcarus]

Pfft, in SA it's controversial when someone wants to refuse treatment/care.

[handy]

@bodyharvester: Have you seen the movie Soylent Green?:lolflag:

Your user name is quite funny in in relation to this thread. :)

[t0p]

Pfft, in SA it's controversial when someone wants to refuse treatment/care.

In the UK, if you refuse treatment there's a reasonable chance of the doctors declaring you mentally unfit and forcing treatment on you.

But of course it's a tricky subject. Should an anorexic patient close to death be force-fed? Many doctors would say yes, and that's common treatment for anorexics here.

And that kind of logic can be extended to justify forcibly stopping a patient from commiting suicide. If a psychiatrist decides that the patient's wish to die is "irrational", the patient may be kept alive at all costs. This is one reason why some people want to kill themselves before they are at a psychiatrist's mercy. And if the subject has left it a little too late and is physically incapable of flipping the switch himself, or prefers to die in the calm, quiet atmosphere of a Swiss clinic, he may need a little help. So is the relative who assists him achieve this goal a good and selfless friend? Or an irresponsible, possibly evil character for helping the mentally-ill patient to do himself in?

[bodyharvester]

@bodyharvester: Have you seen the movie Soylent Green?:lolflag:

Your user name is quite funny in in relation to this thread. :)

xD
ive never seen the movie although ive heard of it

my user name is actually from a game called Body Harvest on the Nintendo 64 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Harvest

if a doctor declares you unfit to make your own choices they get to do what they want, that includes force-feeding and giving you any number of drugs to prolong your life

[handy]

Many doctors see a patients death as the loss of a paying customer. :(

[bodyharvester]

Many doctors see a patients death as the loss of a paying customer. :(

true, but in england we dont have to pay for our basic health care, i could pay for private health care but i couldnt afford that

[etnlIcarus]

true, but in england we dont have to pay for our basic health care, i could pay for private health care but i couldnt afford that

Not to grant handy his soapbox but the BHS is still paying your doctor.

[bodyharvester]

Not to grant handy his soapbox but the BHS is still paying your doctor.

good point, although i wonder what doctors think about all this:(

[handy]

true, but in england we dont have to pay for our basic health care, i could pay for private health care but i couldnt afford that

In Oz we have Medicare, which is a the public health care system.

It matters not, the doctors get paid for what they do, not for how many hours they have clocked in for. Though GP's work in 15 minute lumps for general consultations.

Different medical procedures are allocated different rates of pay here, if the Dr. is being payed via a private health fund they can often make more money under certain circumstances.

[dmizer]

Sorry folks, this thread is political.

Thank you all for participating.