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Purpley
September 20th, 2009, 08:08 AM
I thought I'd share with you my argument with many teachers at my school. They say I have to own a computer with windows on it for Computer Applications. I also need a windows computer for many other classes, Tech, Photography etc. apparently And I'm annoying them because while their going on about how great windows xp is and how useful it is. I'm making their lives a pain because they have to make an exception for me and write me a whole new lesson because I dont own Word and Powerpoint etc. because I absolutely refuse to spend 300$ on windows. They've begun to really hate me because they saw me in the hall ways passing out free ubuntu cd's to a bunch of kids in school. And it makes me feel good inside knowing a teacher or two has probably because of me looked up linux because of our argument. Anyway, I thought I'd share my two cents on how I'm getting the word about linux out. How about you guys?

moviemaniac
September 20th, 2009, 08:15 AM
Well, you know, in the case of Linux resistance is NOT futile :D

I can relate to your situation knowing a few administrators of school-networks. But over here in Austria change is happening. By next year schools won't get any more money from the government to buy stuff like MS Word (hello Gimp, Open Office...) and one or two years after that the government also won't provide any money for the OS (hello Linux). I know two administrators in schools in my area that are preparing a more or less complete switch to Linux - because of the cost but also because they want to teach the children how to use a computer (including how it works) and not how to work with one specific piece of proprietary software.

Stay strong, continue on your path - change is happening!

~unknown
September 20th, 2009, 01:29 PM
The teachers in my school just can't understand that anything else than Windows is even possible to exist! But everyone in our class keeps complaining that the computers suck. I'm currently using a computer with approximately the same hardware as the ones in our school, and it isn't really that slow at all when using Linux! \\:D/

Exodist
September 20th, 2009, 01:37 PM
The way the budget crisis is globally no school should be using or forcing anyone to purchase expensive software. Also as tight as the budget is for schools they all should be converting to free alternatives.

This is something big that I am fighting for in the community and slowly gaining ground on. But its a big hill to climb.

sunchiqua
September 20th, 2009, 01:46 PM
I would give you F just because of the fact that you refuse to use what you should. School is school .. you can't set your own rules there. If it really annoys you and you don't want to learn, quit. I believe this is the way how people get their degrees and finally, upon getting a job, doesn't know what to do with Microsoft Office and other, very popular applications.
Currently, seems that the value of your life/career is less than being a Linux user. Rejecting every single piece of advice is the way to nowhere .. good luck!

Exodist
September 20th, 2009, 01:51 PM
I would give you F just because of the fact that you refuse to use what you should. School is school .. you can't set your own rules there. If it really annoys you and you don't want to learn, quit. I believe this is the way how people get their degrees and finally, upon getting a job, doesn't know what to do with Microsoft Office and other, very popular applications.
Currently, seems that the value of your life/career is less than being a Linux user. Rejecting every single piece of advice is the way to nowhere .. good luck!

No one should be forced to purchase expensive software in a FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Only thing he should have to worry with is lunch money and the cloths on his back. Its expensive enough to have to worry with those and also make sure he has the supplies needed to do his work on. If he was in college I would agree with one. You dont take a VisC++ class and walk in expecting them to let you run GLADE. But in a normal public school. They shouldn't force anything.


Hacking is like sex. You get in, you get out, and hope that you didn't leave something that can be traced back to you ..
BTW, you signature doesnt use the term "Hacking" correctly. Hackers dont break into anything. Crackers do..

sunchiqua
September 20th, 2009, 01:55 PM
No one should be forced to purchase expensive software in a FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Only thing he should have to worry with is lunch money and the cloths on his back. Its expensive enough to have to worry with those and also make sure he has the supplies needed to do his work on. If he was in college I would agree with one. You dont take a VisC++ class and walk in expecting them to let you run GLADE. But in a normal public school. They shouldn't force anything.

Actually, even colleges doesn't force you to buy anything ( mostly ). From my own experience, we just went to the library and took all the CD's we needed ( licensed of course ). Anyway, I think I've missed the point a bit .. still can't find the place where "FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL" was mentioned :-s


BTW, you signature doesnt use the term "Hacking" correctly. Hackers dont break into anything. Crackers do..

Wrong! Crackers get in, set access to "allow" and pass it to hackers, who get in and continue the job of crackers :p

SuperSonic4
September 20th, 2009, 01:55 PM
It is not implausible that the normal lessons can be ran on Linux, just that the staff don't know this.

sideaway
September 20th, 2009, 01:57 PM
I think that's a little harsh sunchiqua. If there's a moral delemma in the real world, I'd stand up for what I believed in. Conformality isn't something a school need be teaching tbh. I did art-design back when I was at school, while 90% of the class used PS, me and one other used GIMP. We both did fairly well in our national assessment. It's not your tools that count, it's your product.

Especially at university, things are much more open to interpretation, free thinking and the ability to use initiative. Schools should not produce clones. Who knows, in the near future some job may come up where he needs a background in linux...

School is not just school. Schooling is a constantly evolving methodology that should adapt with its resources and subjects. Not a set in stone set of rules and practices.

Currently, I think he sees his life skills and morals being more important than a few teachers comfort. And I whole heartedly agree with him. Good on you kid.

Exodist
September 20th, 2009, 01:59 PM
I think that's a little harsh sunchiqua. If there's a moral delemma in the real world, I'd stand up for what I believed in. Conformality isn't something a school need be teaching tbh. I did art-design back when I was at school, while 90% of the class used PS, me and one other used GIMP. We both did fairly well in our national assessment. It's not your tools that count, it's your product.

Especially at university, things are much more open to interpretation, free thinking and the ability to use initiative. Schools should not produce clones. Who knows, in the near future some job may come up where he needs a background in linux...

School is not just school. Schooling is a constantly evolving methodology that should adapt with its resources and subjects. Not a set in stone set of rules and practices.

Currently, I think he sees his life skills and morals being more important than a few teachers comfort. And I whole heartedly agree with him. Good on you kid.

Agreed!



Wrong! Crackers get in, set access to "allow" and pass it to hackers, who get in and continue the job of crackers /smile and wave, smile and wave...

MarcusW
September 20th, 2009, 02:01 PM
We have a teacher who sneaks in pro-open-source-comments now and then during his lectures, and the computer science program actually uses solaris and programs in emacs. :) Almost all teachers use macbooks at the lectures though, don't think I've seen a teacher using a free operating system. (one guy uses xp, takes minutes to open "my computer". That's awesome in the middle of a lecture)

I would be pretty pissed if we were expected to have a windows copy. School (including the computers) is open 24/7 for students, so I just go there if I really need PS or something like that. Can't you just do the required work in school?

sunchiqua
September 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
I think that's a little harsh sunchiqua. If there's a moral delemma in the real world, I'd stand up for what I believed in. Conformality isn't something a school need be teaching tbh. I did art-design back when I was at school, while 90% of the class used PS, me and one other used GIMP. We both did fairly well in our national assessment. It's not your tools that count, it's your product.

Especially at university, things are much more open to interpretation, free thinking and the ability to use initiative. Schools should not produce clones. Who knows, in the near future some job may come up where he needs a background in linux...

School is not just school. Schooling is a constantly evolving methodology that should adapt with its resources and subjects. Not a set in stone set of rules and practices.

Currently, I think he sees his life skills and morals being more important than a few teachers comfort. And I whole heartedly agree with him. Good on you kid.

True, however, if you do have an alternative ( like you said, you used GIMP instead of PS ), you need to prove that it's worth that. I mean, if you say you'll use some weird OS/software, would I believe you ? I think it's rather a way to ensure than you'll actually learn something, not do something else, closer to what you like ( hobby != school ).

SuperSonic4
September 20th, 2009, 02:05 PM
The job of school is primarily to teach you the skills you need to get by in life. As most of the business world currently uses Microsoft it's in the school's interest to teach microsoft.

If you want to learn linux or use it to get the work done fine, however, this should be done on your own time. The OP could be the next big thing in Linux however it's far more likely they won't.

Exodist
September 20th, 2009, 02:05 PM
We have a teacher who sneaks in pro-open-source-comments now and then during his lectures, and the computer science program actually uses solaris and programs in emacs. :) Almost all teachers use macbooks at the lectures though, don't think I've seen a teacher using a free operating system. (one guy uses xp, takes minutes to open "my computer". That's awesome in the middle of a lecture)

I would be pretty pissed if we were expected to have a windows copy. School (including the computers) is open 24/7 for students, so I just go there if I really need PS or something like that. Can't you just do the required work in school?

Would Depend.
Where I live students are not able to, about 3:30 the school is locked and no one is allowed back in. Also most (98%) live many miles from the school on top of that. So staying after school is not even an option.

aysiu
September 20th, 2009, 02:54 PM
The job of school is primarily to teach you the skills you need to get by in life. As most of the business world currently uses Microsoft it's in the school's interest to teach microsoft. That's not really the job of a school. And if it is, my schools failed me miserably. Drawing with little turtles on an Apple computer... how did that give me skills I need to get by in the business world, in which I have to do mail merges and pivot tables twenty years later? I never learned Microsoft Office or use Windows NT of any variety when I was in elementary, middle, secondary school, or in university.

And yet somehow I am still, as a Linux user, the person all my co-workers come to with Windows problems (I am not official tech support, by the way).

Any school that believes learning Windows programs as they currently exists will serve you professionally for the rest of your life doesn't realize how quickly technology changes. Ten years ago, broadband internet, high res digital photos, social networking, and the prevalence of iTunes/iPods/iPhones was unheard of.

Now, all of a sudden, business is very concerned with having Twitter, Facebook, and blog presence. Uh, they didn't teach me Twitter and Facebook in school... so that means I can't do that stuff?

If a school teaches anything about computers, it should be general principles, not specific programs. Just as a class in literature shouldn't teach you only a specific novel or poem but general critical thinking and writing skills. The computer program is a tool to teaching you something larger. Likewise, the novel is just a tool to teaching you something larger.

I don't think teachers should have to rearrange the entire curriculum for one Linux user, though. That's kind of ridiculous. It'd be like if the literature teacher said "We're reading The Great Gatsby" and the student said "Well, I don't read The Great Gatsby. I have The Sound and the Fury at home, though. Can we read that instead?" You can probably teach all the same reading and thinking skills with either book, but if the teacher says "We're using this tool to learn," then you'd better have that tool.


I'm making their lives a pain because they have to make an exception for me and write me a whole new lesson because I dont own Word and Powerpoint etc. because I absolutely refuse to spend 300$ on windows. I don't get this part. Use OpenOffice. It isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, but it is about 99% compatible. It should still be able to open and save Word and Powerpoint files.

stwschool
September 20th, 2009, 04:15 PM
I agree with a lot of what aysiu said (and I'm a teacher, just to declare my interest in this). Personally, I make a point of ensuring that none of the work my students do requires them to purchase any software. We work on Windows and Linux at school, and use MS Office, Photoshop, GIMP, Scribus, Inkscape, OpenOffice, etc, so it's a healthy mix.

I check at the start of the year what my students are running, and if I need to tweak things I do, but generally changing the lesson from MS Office to OpenOffice or vice versa doesn't take that much work. Why do I do this? Because I get more homework back from students this way, and fewer complaints. Generally, if we've got a multiplatform mix I use cross-platform open-source apps for any homework. If we've got primarily Windows in a class and they all have MS Office we use that for homework.

However, one very important thing, and a key factor in why my school computer education worked, is this. I make sure that the students use lots of things that they DON'T have at home. They mostly use windows? We'll mostly use Linux. They mostly have Linux? We'll mostly use Windows. Why? Because they're probably already familiar with their home system, in their comfort zone. Taking them out of it makes them think. It makes them think about why things work as they do, rather than just slavishly clicking buttons. It worked for me. I had an Atari ST at home, and at school we used BBCs, then Acorns, then PCs.


Any school that believes learning Windows programs as they currently exists will serve you professionally for the rest of your life doesn't realize how quickly technology changes.

Spot on. I can teach them all the current apps. I can get betas before they're properly out. However, it won't help in the long run. If they know how to find things out for themselves, how the system as a whole works, then they'll be able to work with anything, and that is my number one goal.

Finally, to the OP. When I was a kid I used to do stuff like that. It didn't get me far and looking back I just looked like a prat. Get out, enjoy yourself, don't hang around handing out cds, just enjoy your computing, try out the Windows side (it won't hurt you, I promise) and have an open mind about both open and closed source. If your teachers want you to do something, just get it done, and learn as much as you can from it. If you can do it using OS tools, great, if not, live with it. It's school, you're there to get grades to do better things, and to learn as much as you can, that includes about Windows.

I did lots of cool stuff in my spare time (programming games from the age of 12 for instance) but school won't do that, that's not their job. They're there to give a broad overview of lots of subjects. Some you'll like, some you'll not, but you need to fully experience them to decide whether you like them. So try it. Don't be like a finnicky cat, try it before you decide you don't like it. As the Dr Pepper ads say.. what's the worst that could happen?

Purpley
September 21st, 2009, 03:17 AM
I don't get this part. Use OpenOffice. It isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, but it is about 99% compatible. It should still be able to open and save Word and Powerpoint files.
I know it's compatible but with Powerpoint and a few Word documents the templates don't format correctly.

I don't think teachers should have to rearrange the entire curriculum for one Linux user, though.
I may have over-exaggerated with that point. They don't have to rearrange a entire curriculum; the most they have to do is modify my assignments slightly. Sorry for that.

I would give you F just because of the fact that you refuse to use what you should. School is school .. you can't set your own rules there. If it really annoys you and you don't want to learn, quit. I believe this is the way how people get their degrees and finally, upon getting a job, doesn't know what to do with Microsoft Office and other, very popular applications.
Currently, seems that the value of your life/career is less than being a Linux user. Rejecting every single piece of advice is the way to nowhere .. good luck!
You would give me an F for me not having the money to buy software? I agree I can't set my own rules and I don't. I certainly don't mind learning how to use Microsoft Office I understand its essential in later life to be successful I have no problem with that. It's just when they assign me certain homework It's not that I don't want to do it; it's because I can't go out and buy Windows because of money problems.

Get out, enjoy yourself, don't hang around handing out cds,
I do, I'm not trying to be a prat. I simply feel that Linux is not that well heard and ought to be and try to at least contribute to the community by getting the word out. Either way, I have to wait about 10 minutes out on my bus platform so their isn't much else I can do.

Frak
September 21st, 2009, 05:40 AM
As a past unit buyer/supplier for a school, I'll tell you right now that the reason MS Word is the defacto in schools is due to the hefty discount they give for it.

Unit Price for 2003? $10 each. Unit Price for 2007? $10 each, but since we already had 2003, they knocked of $5. So, Unit Price for 2007? $5.

The teachers job is to not worry about anything they weren't already taught. School is a get in/get out building. The teachers are there to follow what the cirriculum gave them, and it's not their duty to worry about a technology that's foreign to the instructors. The State (my state) pays to make sure this doesn't happen. The number 1 priority is to get as much instruction time in as possible, in the most efficient manner possible.

Schools are a business. They exist to turn a profit too. Case in point: Excess funds from Grants are used to the School's choosing. Use the least amount of cash, the more money the school can throw around. Why not use OpenOffice? Instructors would gripe, they may not know how to use it, or it may slow down instruction. The amount in a Grant is directly proportional to the amount of instruction time fit into a set cirriculum.

hobo14
September 21st, 2009, 06:12 AM
Well, you know, in the case of Linux resistance is NOT futile :D

I can relate to your situation knowing a few administrators of school-networks. But over here in Austria change is happening. By next year schools won't get any more money from the government to buy stuff like MS Word (hello Gimp, Open Office...) and one or two years after that the government also won't provide any money for the OS (hello Linux). I know two administrators in schools in my area that are preparing a more or less complete switch to Linux - because of the cost but also because they want to teach the children how to use a computer (including how it works) and not how to work with one specific piece of proprietary software.

Stay strong, continue on your path - change is happening!

That's great! Hope I see the same happen here (Australia).



Wrong! Crackers get in, set access to "allow" and pass it to hackers, who get in and continue the job of crackers :p
Wrong! You have no idea what a hacker is.



I had an Atari ST at home, and at school we used BBCs, then Acorns, then PCs.
Snap!



I'm a uni student doing a CS degree, we submit all work in pure text, pdf or latex .tex

Dullstar
September 21st, 2009, 06:15 AM
I agree with a lot of what aysiu said (and I'm a teacher, just to declare my interest in this). Personally, I make a point of ensuring that none of the work my students do requires them to purchase any software. We work on Windows and Linux at school, and use MS Office, Photoshop, GIMP, Scribus, Inkscape, OpenOffice, etc, so it's a healthy mix.

I check at the start of the year what my students are running, and if I need to tweak things I do, but generally changing the lesson from MS Office to OpenOffice or vice versa doesn't take that much work. Why do I do this? Because I get more homework back from students this way, and fewer complaints. Generally, if we've got a multiplatform mix I use cross-platform open-source apps for any homework. If we've got primarily Windows in a class and they all have MS Office we use that for homework.

However, one very important thing, and a key factor in why my school computer education worked, is this. I make sure that the students use lots of things that they DON'T have at home. They mostly use windows? We'll mostly use Linux. They mostly have Linux? We'll mostly use Windows. Why? Because they're probably already familiar with their home system, in their comfort zone. Taking them out of it makes them think. It makes them think about why things work as they do, rather than just slavishly clicking buttons. It worked for me. I had an Atari ST at home, and at school we used BBCs, then Acorns, then PCs.



Spot on. I can teach them all the current apps. I can get betas before they're properly out. However, it won't help in the long run. If they know how to find things out for themselves, how the system as a whole works, then they'll be able to work with anything, and that is my number one goal.

Finally, to the OP. When I was a kid I used to do stuff like that. It didn't get me far and looking back I just looked like a prat. Get out, enjoy yourself, don't hang around handing out cds, just enjoy your computing, try out the Windows side (it won't hurt you, I promise) and have an open mind about both open and closed source. If your teachers want you to do something, just get it done, and learn as much as you can from it. If you can do it using OS tools, great, if not, live with it. It's school, you're there to get grades to do better things, and to learn as much as you can, that includes about Windows.

I did lots of cool stuff in my spare time (programming games from the age of 12 for instance) but school won't do that, that's not their job. They're there to give a broad overview of lots of subjects. Some you'll like, some you'll not, but you need to fully experience them to decide whether you like them. So try it. Don't be like a finnicky cat, try it before you decide you don't like it. As the Dr Pepper ads say.. what's the worst that could happen?

That looked like a good post, until you got to some of the later points...

The Windows side of things practically stabbed me. Ugh.
I take it schools where you are from don't suck? Where I'm from, I am "learning" things that they taught several years ago (nice how when they made the standards, they just wrote up the first grade ones in some word processor and then copied and pasted them to make the standards for later grades. 7th Grade (year of school, out of 12, not counting college) and only learning about 20-40 things? In 1/2 year, I have learned more from Wikipedia than I have from 7 years and about 3-5 weeks of school. Maybe I should become a teacher when I grow up, and - oh wait, I'd get fired for suggesting being a teacher that ACTUALLY TEACHES.

Dullstar
September 21st, 2009, 06:22 AM
That's not really the job of a school. And if it is, my schools failed me miserably. Drawing with little turtles on an Apple computer... how did that give me skills I need to get by in the business world, in which I have to do mail merges and pivot tables twenty years later? I never learned Microsoft Office or use Windows NT of any variety when I was in elementary, middle, secondary school, or in university.

And yet somehow I am still, as a Linux user, the person all my co-workers come to with Windows problems (I am not official tech support, by the way).

Any school that believes learning Windows programs as they currently exists will serve you professionally for the rest of your life doesn't realize how quickly technology changes. Ten years ago, broadband internet, high res digital photos, social networking, and the prevalence of iTunes/iPods/iPhones was unheard of.

Now, all of a sudden, business is very concerned with having Twitter, Facebook, and blog presence. Uh, they didn't teach me Twitter and Facebook in school... so that means I can't do that stuff?

If a school teaches anything about computers, it should be general principles, not specific programs. Just as a class in literature shouldn't teach you only a specific novel or poem but general critical thinking and writing skills. The computer program is a tool to teaching you something larger. Likewise, the novel is just a tool to teaching you something larger.

I don't think teachers should have to rearrange the entire curriculum for one Linux user, though. That's kind of ridiculous. It'd be like if the literature teacher said "We're reading The Great Gatsby" and the student said "Well, I don't read The Great Gatsby. I have The Sound and the Fury at home, though. Can we read that instead?" You can probably teach all the same reading and thinking skills with either book, but if the teacher says "We're using this tool to learn," then you'd better have that tool.

I don't get this part. Use OpenOffice. It isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, but it is about 99% compatible. It should still be able to open and save Word and Powerpoint files.

My schools are failing me as well. A funny thing here is that when I was younger, they were actually wasting time teaching how to use KidPix, or something like that, a program that has probably by now vanished into obscurity. And I am very close to burning some CD's for two of my teachers. I just hope I don't get any MS Publisher homework.

sunchiqua
September 21st, 2009, 01:37 PM
You would give me an F for me not having the money to buy software? I agree I can't set my own rules and I don't. I certainly don't mind learning how to use Microsoft Office I understand its essential in later life to be successful I have no problem with that. It's just when they assign me certain homework It's not that I don't want to do it; it's because I can't go out and buy Windows because of money problems.


In that case, I've misunderstood you. Sorry :(



Wrong! You have no idea what a hacker is.

Learn how to speak in full senteces and I might start listening to you ;)

stwschool
September 21st, 2009, 02:05 PM
That looked like a good post, until you got to some of the later points...

The Windows side of things practically stabbed me. Ugh.
I take it schools where you are from don't suck? Where I'm from, I am "learning" things that they taught several years ago (nice how when they made the standards, they just wrote up the first grade ones in some word processor and then copied and pasted them to make the standards for later grades. 7th Grade (year of school, out of 12, not counting college) and only learning about 20-40 things? In 1/2 year, I have learned more from Wikipedia than I have from 7 years and about 3-5 weeks of school. Maybe I should become a teacher when I grow up, and - oh wait, I'd get fired for suggesting being a teacher that ACTUALLY TEACHES.
As I've mentioned in my previous posts, I'm lucky to have a certain amount of flexibility in what I can teach. I also come from an IT industry background (used to be a programmer), which in my experience is unusual. My lessons don't suck because I have the knowledge and the opportunity to make them not suck. The tricky thing is good IT people generally suck at teaching (I did when I started, it doesn't come naturally to me, but I enjoy the challenge and I'm not bad these days), and most will avoid anything like teaching because it's rather alien to them.

"The Windows side of things practically stabbed me. Ugh." A bit dramatic I think. It's an operating system. It's not a good one, but it's only an OS. I use Linux for technical rather than philosophical reasons, and teach my students to do the same (ie choose a tool for a job, be it windows, linux, mac, Photoshop, gimp, MS Office, openoffice) and I think this will do them a lot of good.

If you get publisher homework, do it in Publisher. If you don't have publisher, use Scribus and give your teacher the PDF and the .sla file along with a link to download scribus. I personally wouldn't object if my student had enough sense to try another package if they didn't have a particular one.

stwschool
September 21st, 2009, 02:10 PM
I know it's compatible but with Powerpoint and a few Word documents the templates don't format correctly.

I may have over-exaggerated with that point. They don't have to rearrange a entire curriculum; the most they have to do is modify my assignments slightly. Sorry for that.

You would give me an F for me not having the money to buy software? I agree I can't set my own rules and I don't. I certainly don't mind learning how to use Microsoft Office I understand its essential in later life to be successful I have no problem with that. It's just when they assign me certain homework It's not that I don't want to do it; it's because I can't go out and buy Windows because of money problems.

I do, I'm not trying to be a prat. I simply feel that Linux is not that well heard and ought to be and try to at least contribute to the community by getting the word out. Either way, I have to wait about 10 minutes out on my bus platform so their isn't much else I can do.
To the OP, linux can look after itself, let it. Concentrate on your education, so that you can make that change from a position of strength. You can make change happen more effectively as a person in a position of responsibility than working in mcdonalds so make sure you get a good education and then you can do your thing.

People are finding out about linux, but does it matter even if they don't? Linux will gain more adoption as it becomes more and more superior to Windows (and looking at progress over the last 5 years or so that's definitely happening), and as Windows users get more fed up with malware. Let it happen in its own time, don't force the issue. I've had more people switch seeing me happy with my computer than I ever did trying to ram it down peoples throats. Just learn to relax a little. Seriously, it'll do you some good.

hobo14
September 21st, 2009, 02:19 PM
Learn how to speak in full senteces and I might start listening to you ;)

Did I write anything less than a full sentence?
Please don't start listening to me, I want no part of the responsibility of educating you.

marchwarden
September 21st, 2009, 02:23 PM
Learn how to speak in full senteces and I might start listening to you ;)

sunchiqua, it looks like you were too busy being rude to realise that you mis-spelled "sentences" (how ironic).

qamelian
September 21st, 2009, 02:25 PM
Drawing with little turtles on an Apple computer... how did that give me skills I need to get by in the business world, ...
Hm, I think we have a job for you in management! :)

sunchiqua
September 21st, 2009, 02:27 PM
Did I write anything less than a full sentence?
Please don't start listening to me, I want no part of the responsibility of educating you.

:lolflag:

I wonder, why people always try to be smarter than others ? I mean, do you really think that I will consider you smarter than me, just because of the fact that you can disagree, without explaining the "real" situation ?
For the future knowledge, you've just successfully disagreed with a very well known quote, not me.


sunchiqua, it looks like you were too busy being rude to realise that you mis-spelled "sentences" (how ironic).

So what ? Have you ever though about the fact that not everyone is from english speaking regions ?

stwschool
September 21st, 2009, 02:34 PM
Hm, I think we have a job for you in management! :)
I do actually use KTurtle for the little ones to introduce some basic (and I mean VERY basic!) programming concepts, so they begin to form the idea of a program as a sequence of steps. Obviously later on we get a bit more advanced (grade 8 have been using PHP) but it's a good place to start, and get the kids thinking logically about setting up a sequence of instructions. Thing is it doesn't come naturally, it needs to be taught to most kids.

Funny enough though some of mine surprised me today and showed me something I'd not even thought of, extending what I'd taught them with their own ideas, it was really cool as they managed to create something kinda close to those fractal images from some really simple bits of code, it was fabulous! Those moments really make teaching a cool thing to do.

scrooge_74
September 21st, 2009, 02:35 PM
My schools are failing me as well. A funny thing here is that when I was younger, they were actually wasting time teaching how to use KidPix, or something like that, a program that has probably by now vanished into obscurity. And I am very close to burning some CD's for two of my teachers. I just hope I don't get any MS Publisher homework.
I think there is an app call scribus that can do similar as MS Publisher.

To the OP, any chance you could find a not so hard headed teacher you could sit and talk and show some linux, maybe that way you could get some allies and mayyyybbbeee get to see the principal and show him, but not just show him, make a little presentation including costs that way they see other aspects of why linux is a good idea

stwschool
September 21st, 2009, 02:48 PM
I think there is an app call scribus that can do similar as MS Publisher.

To the OP, any chance you could find a not so hard headed teacher you could sit and talk and show some linux, maybe that way you could get some allies and mayyyybbbeee get to see the principal and show him, but not just show him, make a little presentation including costs that way they see other aspects of why linux is a good idea
Scribus is excellent. Cross-platform too.

hobo14
September 21st, 2009, 03:18 PM
:lolflag:

I wonder, why people always try to be smarter than others ? I mean, do you really think that I will consider you smarter than me, just because of the fact that you can disagree, without explaining the "real" situation ?
For the future knowledge, you've just successfully disagreed with a very well known quote, not me.
Check the definition of "well known".

Was my aim to make you believe I am smarter than you, and would I care if I succeeded?

You didn't want to hear an explanation, remember?:

Learn how to speak in full senteces and I might start listening to you ;)

stwschool
September 21st, 2009, 03:22 PM
Oh do cut it out you two. You'll get this locked.

MasterNetra
September 21st, 2009, 03:39 PM
Ha! React OS will conquer both window and Linux! :lolflag:

I agree that schools shouldn't be teaching software, but rather general methods & skills that don't rely on a particular software or OS, giving the rate of development.