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oobuntoo
September 15th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I'll will admit that I don't closely follow Haiku's development. But from reading comments about it over at the osnews.com, it seems such a big deal to a lot of people. I tried to find out more about Haiku, which took 8 years just to reached apha 1, but simplt don't find anything special about it. Maybe I'm missing something. Does it bring anything new to the table that Windows, OSX, and Linux didn't already have? Anybody knows?:confused:

handy
September 15th, 2009, 10:20 AM
I've suggested that this thread should be combined with the other Haiku thread.

In answer to your question, have a look at this old Haiku video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879#

You may appreciate some of the wonders of Haiku that so many of us are waiting to develop into common usage.

gnomeuser
September 15th, 2009, 10:30 AM
It is pretty clear you never spend time on BeOS. It is still one of the most amazing OSes ever built. It was extremely advanced for it's time, it was smooth in use (e.g. you could easily play several videos at once on the BeBox which was a lowly dual core 66MHz or there abouts machine).

BeOS is a big deal and Haiku is the natural reimplementation of this fantastic OS.

However the use of extensive threading also made it hard to program correctly, today more modern and less drastic (and less efficient) approaches to using multiple cores have arisen such as Apples Grand Central Dispatch.

oobuntoo
September 15th, 2009, 11:00 AM
It is pretty clear you never spend time on BeOS. It is still one of the most amazing OSes ever built. It was extremely advanced for it's time, it was smooth in use (e.g. you could easily play several videos at once on the BeBox which was a lowly dual core 66MHz or there abouts machine).

BeOS is a big deal and Haiku is the natural reimplementation of this fantastic OS.

However the use of extensive threading also made it hard to program correctly, today more modern and less drastic (and less efficient) approaches to using multiple cores have arisen such as Apples Grand Central Dispatch.

You're right, I've never used BeOS or Haiku. That is why I asked. I don't want to jump in and invest time in testing/using an OS that I don't know where it's heading. Given the fact that it took so long to get to apha 1 and so many basic features haven't yet been implemented, according to this wiki ( http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/FutureHaikuFeatures ), I just don't know if I will still be alive when it reaches final release.

handy
September 15th, 2009, 11:25 AM
You're right, I've never used BeOS or Haiku. That is why I asked. I don't want to jump in and invest time in testing/using an OS that I don't know where it's heading. Given the fact that it took so long to get to apha 1 and so many basic features haven't yet been implemented, according to this wiki ( http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/FutureHaikuFeatures ), I just don't know if I will still be alive when it reaches final release.

So why don't you turn your logic around & evaluate the question this way?

To start with, if it reaches final release, it has to still be alive? :)

Haiku has been in sustained development long enough to reach Alpha_1. This says something in itself when it is considered that it is not just another relatively easy Linux distro; it is a rewritten BEOS compatible system with an entirely new & highly advanced file system.

After the current Alpha_1 release, there will be a great deal more feedback due to the sudden increase of users. There will also be an increase in the amount of coding help, due to the expanded awareness or the existence of Haiku & also due to the enthusiasm that this growing awareness will generate for Haiku.

If you actually looked at the video I linked to, apart from anything else, you may have noticed the amazing abilities of the BE file system.

There is a great deal more; though if you are truly interested, you will do a tiny bit of research, (instead of asking to be spoon fed) as there is a great deal of information regarding Haiku available.

I gave you the movie link because you gave me the impression that you weren't really into doing the reading/research, as you find it takes too long to find anything out.

If you find patience? Go & do some reading on the Haiku website? From such an endeavor you will learn what the current goals are & just where the dev' team is up to in this regard on the various fronts.

Another thing that maybe worth mentioning, is that if you can afford the download of the Haiku.iso, it is a LiveCD, so you don't have to install it on your machine, (though it will function VERY much quicker if you do put it on a HDD) to be able to look at it & test it against your hardware. After which, if you see that your hardware is supported then you can if you choose, install it to a partition one way or another.

So long of course that you don't think that all of that is a waste of your time, with regard to testing an unknown. For some reason (demonstrated in you post) I think you will very likely find that Haiku Alpha_1 is a waste of your time, so you should probably just move onto something else.

Though, I could be wrong, I certainly have been many times before... :)

3rdalbum
September 15th, 2009, 11:47 AM
I've suggested that this thread should be combined with the other Haiku thread.

In answer to your question, have a look at this old Haiku video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879#

You may appreciate some of the wonders of Haiku that so many of us are waiting to develop into common usage.

I reckon that the old classic "Playing six videos on the faces of a rotating cube" was a pre-rendered object :-P

I might take a look at the video though, and I'll be putting Haiku into a virtual machine later on.

gnomeuser
September 15th, 2009, 12:22 PM
I reckon that the old classic "Playing six videos on the faces of a rotating cube" was a pre-rendered object :-P

I might take a look at the video though, and I'll be putting Haiku into a virtual machine later on.


Actually it is a Google Tech Talk from the people behind Haiku (interestingly in attendance is a lot of former Be employees who are now with Google). It's well worth the hour of your life it takes to watch it.

but yes, BeOS playing multiple videos at once without skipping a frame is pretty damn impressive given the hardware.. my Core 2 Duo can't even do that today on Linux with one video.

handy
September 15th, 2009, 12:52 PM
Really truly!

Why wouldn't any old IT dude be at least appreciative & grateful that at last Haiku is now alpha_1 & available in a variety of installable formats?

This release will bring in an increased number of bug reports & I expect an increase in coders.

It has mouse bugs on my hardware.

These will probably be the first to be sorted for the next release.

In Haiku, I could surf the web in Firefox 2.2, without any configuration on my behalf at all, it just worked!

This is critical as far as I can see. If people can access the web via Haiku, then they are going to use it one way or another.

I'm stoked, I only need the mouse bugs I experience fixed & I'll be running Haiku consistently as my 2nd system.

Wow! :guitar:

Sporkman
September 15th, 2009, 02:29 PM
I'll will admit that I don't closely follow Haiku's development. But from reading comments about it over at the osnews.com, it seems such a big deal to a lot of people. I tried to find out more about Haiku, which took 8 years just to reached apha 1, but simplt don't find anything special about it. Maybe I'm missing something. Does it bring anything new to the table that Windows, OSX, and Linux didn't already have? Anybody knows?:confused:

From the FAQ (http://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq):


Why not Linux?

Linux-based distributions stack up software -- the Linux kernel, the X Window System, and various DEs with disparate toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt -- that do not necessarily share the same guidelines and/or goals. This lack of consistency and overall vision manifests itself in increased complexity, insufficient integration, and inefficient solutions, making the use of your computer more complicated than it should actually be. [top]

Instead, Haiku has a single focus on personal computing and is driven by a unified vision for the whole OS. That, we believe, enables Haiku to provide a leaner, cleaner and more efficient system capable of providing a better user experience that is simple and uniform throughout. [top]

Looks interesting.

pwnst*r
September 15th, 2009, 03:02 PM
From the FAQ (http://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq):



Looks interesting.

with that snippet, it does look interesting.

handy
September 15th, 2009, 03:12 PM
Go here to explore the Haiku site, it is a really nice place to be?

http://haiku-os.org/

3rdalbum
September 15th, 2009, 04:27 PM
but yes, BeOS playing multiple videos at once without skipping a frame is pretty damn impressive given the hardware.. my Core 2 Duo can't even do that today on Linux with one video.

You're kidding, right? Videos back then had to be able to decode on-the-fly with a much weedier processor, at smaller resolutions than today's videos. Because we've got Core 2 Duos now, our videos come in more processor-intensive compression formats.

CJ Master
September 15th, 2009, 05:01 PM
You're kidding, right? Videos back then had to be able to decode on-the-fly with a much weedier processor, at smaller resolutions than today's videos. Because we've got Core 2 Duos now, our videos come in more processor-intensive compression formats.

I really don't get what you're saying. Linux (or, rather, X) wasn't able to show multiple videos at a time while Haiku could. What does process-intensiveness have to do with it?

mantisdolphin
September 15th, 2009, 05:17 PM
I've got Haiku running on a 10GB partition, dual-booting with CrunchBang, on an old Sony Vaio box:

Haiku R1/alpha1 (Revision 32907) Kernel, Sept. 2.
P4 2GHz
512MB RAM/84MB used

Not bad! Just need a wireless stack for a Sabrent PCI G802 card.

I want so badly to put this on a Dell Mini 9 with SSD. I'm not hopeful about any Broadcom wireless driver support though.

----------------
Now playing: Pat Metheny - Travels (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/pat+metheny/track/pat+metheny)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

CJ Master
September 15th, 2009, 05:22 PM
By the way, how's hardware support on it? I would think it'd be low right now considering it's still in Alpha.

Regenweald
September 15th, 2009, 07:16 PM
I really don't get what you're saying. Linux (or, rather, X) wasn't able to show multiple videos at a time while Haiku could. That does process-intensiveness have to do with it?

I have to agree, BeOS could run *many* videos simultaneously without any degradation whatsoever at a time when processors were sub 1Ghz and single core. Linux, Windows and Mac were nowhere near that capability. If Haiku is really a modernized implementation of the same technology, we may finally have an OS capable of optimally using our hugely powerful processors.

Long live the Haiku!

gnomeuser
September 15th, 2009, 07:44 PM
You're kidding, right? Videos back then had to be able to decode on-the-fly with a much weedier processor, at smaller resolutions than today's videos. Because we've got Core 2 Duos now, our videos come in more processor-intensive compression formats.

You really should come and experience the splendor that is my machine running Linux

dragos240
September 15th, 2009, 07:55 PM
I have tried it, it's stable i'll give it that. It also is trying to mimic BeOS.

Regenweald
September 15th, 2009, 08:28 PM
It also is trying to mimic BeOS.

You are a master of understatement :lolflag:

Think i'll try it in a container next year. depending on my Opensolaris move.

Ric_NYC
September 15th, 2009, 08:39 PM
I used BeOS many years ago.
There are 2 things that I remember well:

1) software installation: simply download the program, click on it... Ready! No command lines.

2) It was based on Unix... (the "friendliest" Unix at that time).

NormanFLinux
September 15th, 2009, 08:51 PM
It looks promising. There are two strikes against Haiku: lack of support for wireless cards and no package management tool which means downloading and installing updates and additional software isn't possible for now. When it matures, it may become a worthy rival to Linux, Mac OSX and Windows.

dragos240
September 15th, 2009, 08:56 PM
I used BeOS many years ago.
There are 2 things that I remember well:

1) software installation: simply download the program, click on it... Ready! No command lines.

2) It was based on Unix... (the "friendliest" Unix at that time).

I was told BeOS was not Unix, and Haiku wasn't either.

Frak
September 15th, 2009, 09:47 PM
I personally *love* Haiku. And, not to flame or anything here, but I, myself, believe that this is what Ubuntu should be shooting for.

yabbadabbadont
September 15th, 2009, 09:59 PM
My "The BeOS Bible" and installation CD are still on one of my bookcases. I've never been able to get myself to discard them. :D

Finally, an installable reimplementation that will run on my (modernish) hardware. Happy Days!

Sporkman
September 15th, 2009, 10:01 PM
I don't suppose we could take a debian/ubuntu userland & slap in a Hiaku kernel, eh?

BeRReGoN
September 16th, 2009, 12:43 AM
I don't suppose we could take a debian/ubuntu userland & slap in a Hiaku kernel, eh?
Short Answer: No :)

I remember reading a thread about archlinux. Some was really tired to see a lot of fan of arch saying try arch! or i'm using arch (meaning: i'm so good) :P

I hope that sooner or later people will be tired to read: Try haiku! :)

Disreali
September 16th, 2009, 01:08 AM
I used BeOS many years ago.
There are 2 things that I remember well:

1) software installation: simply download the program, click on it... Ready! No command lines.

2) It was based on Unix... (the "friendliest" Unix at that time).

1) yes

2) BeOS want not based on anything. It was built from the ground up to be free of backwards compatibility, including *NIX

Frak
September 16th, 2009, 01:11 AM
1) software installation: simply download the program, click on it... Ready! No command lines.

Every time I suggest this to Ubuntu, I get labeled a troll because it's so "Microsoftish". When Haiku does it, it's awesome.

Lesson? Hurry up and finish Haiku so I can switch to using you instead!

handy
September 16th, 2009, 01:45 AM
The stated first goal of Haiku is for it to be at first release, 100% compatible with BeOS.

After that they will then look at how they will extend Haiku.

CJ Master
September 16th, 2009, 01:51 AM
The stated first goal of Haiku is for it to be at first release, 100% compatible with BeOS.

After that they will then look at how they will extend Haiku.

Please forgive me, but this late into the game it's pretty dumb to want full compatibility with BeOS. It's like Microsoft's major plan before they release W7 would be to get full compatibility with DOS... Is BeOS not very old and obsolete? Then again, I could very well be completely wrong or missing something.

I tried Haiku and I have to say that I'm rather disappointed...

Well, in itself Haiku is a decent system, but with all this BeOS hype around it I was expecting a new revolutionary OS... Everything I could do in Haiku I could do in Windows/GNOME, and probably easier. For some dumb reason clicking on an HTML file loads up notepad instead of Firefox, and the menu seemed rather below-par. Not to mention the lack of a package manager.

Well, can't wait for another 8 years when they'll release the beta. ;)

pelle.k
September 16th, 2009, 01:56 AM
I don't suppose we could take a debian/ubuntu userland & slap in a Hiaku kernel, eh?
*shrug* - I think i speak for most haiku users/devs when i say we don't want debian/ubuntu (even though i love ubuntu for what is it).
Some bits and pieces cant be avoided, like gcc, bash, coreutils - but other than that, i like to see haiku do it's own thing.

handy
September 16th, 2009, 02:35 AM
@CJ Master: That is the Haiku strategy. After 100% BeOS compatibility they will then grow from that footing.

The AROS development is doing a similar thing. They are creating a system that is open-source with the first goal of it being 100% compatible with AmigaOS 3.1. After which they will extend AROS as they see fit.

BeOS & the AmigaOS were brilliant systems. Many of us think it is wonderful that these people are putting in so much hard work to bring these systems into the 21st century.

Haiku will be my permanent No.2 system as soon as the mouse bug that effects my No.2 machine is fixed.

Sporkman
September 16th, 2009, 02:41 AM
So:

Which is the better OS?

1. Haiku
2. Arch Linux
3. FreeBSD

Frak
September 16th, 2009, 02:44 AM
So:

Which is the better OS?

1. Haiku
2. Arch Linux
3. FreeBSD
Subjective, but if Haiku was completed today: Haiku.

ynnhoj
September 16th, 2009, 03:12 AM
i've been following the development of Haiku (on and off) for a while now, and i'm excited to see they've finally put up an alpha release. can't wait to download it and test it out!

handy
September 16th, 2009, 04:48 AM
So:

Which is the better OS?

1. Haiku
2. Arch Linux
3. FreeBSD

I love my FreeNAS system, though it is certainly specialised.

Arch has been my favourite system since early last year.

I look forward to using Haiku on my 2nd machine, though I think it is impossible to make a valid subjective judgement on best OS at this early stage, as the Haiku system still requires a great deal of further development.

CJ Master
September 16th, 2009, 06:13 AM
@CJ Master: That is the Haiku strategy. After 100% BeOS compatibility they will then grow from that footing.

The AROS development is doing a similar thing. They are creating a system that is open-source with the first goal of it being 100% compatible with AmigaOS 3.1. After which they will extend AROS as they see fit.

BeOS & the AmigaOS were brilliant systems. Many of us think it is wonderful that these people are putting in so much hard work to bring these systems into the 21st century.

Haiku will be my permanent No.2 system as soon as the mouse bug that effects my No.2 machine is fixed.

But why? It seems like wasted effort, good for a little nostalgia and little else.

Frak
September 16th, 2009, 06:36 AM
But why? It seems like wasted effort, good for a little nostalgia and little else.
Their (sorta) main goal now is to be a 100% dedicated desktop OS. The BeOS thing is great, but they've started to look into the future with it. Their system is now built from the ground up for Desktop (Home, multimedia, web, etc.) use.

handy
September 16th, 2009, 07:53 AM
But why? It seems like wasted effort, good for a little nostalgia and little else.

It's not nostalgia, the system is beautiful, the file system is incredibly advanced, the desktop is so simple that Apple may regret that they didn't choose BeOS when they were thinking about it. :)

Actually, I can see now that I will have a more satisfactory free alternative for when I become too demented to be able to use Linux. I thought it was going to be OS X (or whatever it will be called by then) but Haiku is far more attractive, to me anyway.

& it is fast.

I wonder whether you are just throwing out these lines to catch fish? :)

xArv3nx
September 16th, 2009, 08:13 AM
I like Haiku, it supports all my hardware out of the box (except 3d for my nvidia card -- understandable) and is very fast.

just one problem: the interface is horrid. i mean really. it's different and that may be why.. but it just feels.. old.... and is insanely hard to move around in. the file browser sucks too.

i gotta give them props though, this is much better than skyos which was in beta stages and pretty much only supported virtualized hardware.

chucky chuckaluck
September 16th, 2009, 08:20 AM
(e.g. you could easily play several videos at once on the BeBox which was a lowly dual core 66MHz or there abouts machine).

i guess i'm naive, but when would anyone need to play more than one video at a time? (a tribute to charles ives, perhaps?)

yabbadabbadont
September 16th, 2009, 08:28 AM
i guess i'm naive, but when would anyone need to play more than one video at a time? (a tribute to charles ives, perhaps?)

It was just a way of demonstrating how the multithreadedness (I know it isn't a real word) of the system allowed for smooth application functioning while under stress.

On my old 233MHz P-II, as a test I played two videos, three mp3s, and compiled a program without any of the media stuttering. Further, BeOS properly mixed all of the audio while both Windows and Linux of the time either couldn't do it, or required jumping through hoops to get limited mixing. I tried the same feat in Windows and Linux on the same machine with the same media files. (I was triple-booting at that time) Windows (95 or 98, not sure which it was) BSOD'd on me. Linux actually managed to play everything without errors, but it all stuttered badly and there was only sound from the first source.

chucky chuckaluck
September 16th, 2009, 08:32 AM
oooooooooooh, i see.

Sporkman
September 16th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I love my FreeNAS system, though it is certainly specialised.

What do you love about it?

MasterNetra
September 16th, 2009, 03:00 PM
What do you love about it?

I wonder how well it handles DVD's and TV Viewing...

t0p
September 16th, 2009, 03:24 PM
It's not nostalgia, the system is beautiful, the file system is incredibly advanced, the desktop is so simple that Apple may regret that they didn't choose BeOS when they were thinking about it. :)

Actually, I can see now that I will have a more satisfactory free alternative for when I become too demented to be able to use Linux. I thought it was going to be OS X (or whatever it will be called by then) but Haiku is far more attractive, to me anyway.

& it is fast.

I wonder whether you are just throwing out these lines to catch fish? :)

No, I can see where CJ Master is coming from. It may make sense to base Haiku on BeOS and its "beautiful file system", but compatibility makes little or no sense to me. Why waste time and effort on backward compatibility? Are users likely to run old BeOS programs on their new Haiku systems?

SomeGuyDude
September 16th, 2009, 03:50 PM
This Haiku thing looks interesting, but I cannot see myself actually using it any time soon.

ve4cib
September 16th, 2009, 05:37 PM
I'm definitely intrigued by it. Unfortunately I can't seem to be able to get networking to work with it in VirtualBox. I'll need to figure out how to fix that later...

The rest of it looks nice though. I can see the interface working well on a tablet.

moster
September 16th, 2009, 07:34 PM
I remember what was it capable of on pentium 200, I cannot imagine on P 3000 :) Actually, it was only OS I recall really love to use. No stutter no slowdowns.... In 1998 they were thinking about support for 16 cores, amazing.

I somehow doubt they can pull it now. Too few people, too many hardware.. too demanding and complex drivers.

stuart.reinke
September 16th, 2009, 08:08 PM
I checked out their website. Found it interesting, and downloaded the iso.

One question, does anybody know where the software apps come from? Does it use it's own native apps, run Linux apps, or (gasp) Windows apps?

I couldn't find an answer to my question on their site (I might have overlooked it. I was in a hury), thought I'd ask here.

I plan to give the live cd a run later.

gnomeuser
September 16th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Another thing to consider, BeOS is from the ground up a microkernel design with a focus on low latency rather than throughput. It makes a horrible server but a wonderful desktop.

For the time BeOS was incredibly advanced, it did things on hardware which the competitors could only dream about. It was smooth in use, had elegant filesystem features (in fact some of the things we are now talking about doing with things like tracker were built into the filesystem back on BeOS).

Today we consider a modern machine on SSDs booting in 10 seconds to be incredible but BeOS did that back then on hardware with much more meager specifications.

It was an incredible OS experience, it deserves every bit the chance for a new life Haiku gives it. It may very well never be what Linux is but it is a fantastic piece of OS history and should be experienced.

There are many things it doesn't do that modern OSes do but for the time it was nothing short of stunning.

I often find myself thinking what would have happened if Apple had decided to buy Be instead of NeXT as they originally was in talks to do. For the multimedia rich use cases Apple target it would have made a fantastic base and I think it's a shame that they didn't get a change to mix the impressive technology that Be packed with the usability expertise Apple carries.

Also I am pissy that Linux currently has latencies on my machine in excess of 2000ms, fsync causing minute long lagging. It honestly takes me more than 45 mins to watch a 30 min video clip. I can't watch flash at all because of lagging and stalling in the interface. I know this hardware is capable of not being such a pain. I know that a lot of this is down to bugs but part of me also screams that the design of Linux really is grounded in horrid mistakes that makes this thing just that much worse. I love Linux but every so often I really want to take it to the backyard and pump it full of cheap hot lead.

moster
September 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM
gnomeuser, totally know what you mean :D

NormanFLinux
September 16th, 2009, 08:28 PM
There is still GEOS which is an OS that in its day ran on Brother notebooks and a few mobile devices. Its still a 16 bit operating system. The only thing people don't like about it is its GUI interface may be too kid-like for users.

CJ Master
September 16th, 2009, 08:37 PM
No, I can see where CJ Master is coming from. It may make sense to base Haiku on BeOS and its "beautiful file system", but compatibility makes little or no sense to me. Why waste time and effort on backward compatibility? Are users likely to run old BeOS programs on their new Haiku systems?

You hit the nail on the head. While BeOS may have been a wonderful system by now its applications are all obsolete, it is a very old system after all.

hanzomon4
September 16th, 2009, 09:41 PM
another thing to consider, beos is from the ground up a microkernel design with a focus on low latency rather than throughput. It makes a horrible server but a wonderful desktop.

For the time beos was incredibly advanced, it did things on hardware which the competitors could only dream about. It was smooth in use, had elegant filesystem features (in fact some of the things we are now talking about doing with things like tracker were built into the filesystem back on beos).

Today we consider a modern machine on ssds booting in 10 seconds to be incredible but beos did that back then on hardware with much more meager specifications.

It was an incredible os experience, it deserves every bit the chance for a new life haiku gives it. It may very well never be what linux is but it is a fantastic piece of os history and should be experienced.

There are many things it doesn't do that modern oses do but for the time it was nothing short of stunning.

I often find myself thinking what would have happened if apple had decided to buy be instead of next as they originally was in talks to do. For the multimedia rich use cases apple target it would have made a fantastic base and i think it's a shame that they didn't get a change to mix the impressive technology that be packed with the usability expertise apple carries.

Also i am pissy that linux currently has latencies on my machine in excess of 2000ms, fsync causing minute long lagging. It honestly takes me more than 45 mins to watch a 30 min video clip. I can't watch flash at all because of lagging and stalling in the interface. I know this hardware is capable of not being such a pain. I know that a lot of this is down to bugs but part of me also screams that the design of linux really is grounded in horrid mistakes that makes this thing just that much worse. I love linux but every so often i really want to take it to the backyard and pump it full of cheap hot lead.

yes =D>

ubongo2008
September 16th, 2009, 09:46 PM
Also I am pissy that Linux currently has latencies on my machine in excess of 2000ms, fsync causing minute long lagging. It honestly takes me more than 45 mins to watch a 30 min video clip. I can't watch flash at all because of lagging and stalling in the interface. I know this hardware is capable of not being such a pain. I know that a lot of this is down to bugs but part of me also screams that the design of Linux really is grounded in horrid mistakes that makes this thing just that much worse. I love Linux but every so often I really want to take it to the backyard and pump it full of cheap hot lead.


well sounds like some installation issues, but flash? you know that it is

1. closed source (at least the adobe flash) and
2. that it is so slow because it doesn't have any hardware acceleration?

you may use GreaseMonkey firefox script + vlc-mozilla to use xine or mplayer to watch flashmovies.

3. try an real-time kernel if latencies is what you are about


personaly i don't like that Mac-like stuff drop an app to desktop use it ... or everything in one place with one style .... i like exactly the fact that for linux there is nothing pressed in tight directions. I like it the way it is: customizable to the last bits and pieces.

belive it or not i had tried hours to uninstall an app on an mac machine until i found out that i should drop it into the trash ... well for me that was just too simple

Slug71
September 16th, 2009, 10:27 PM
Dammit i hate this forum, now i have to try this too.:P

When a new version is released can you just update to that version like with Linux or is a reinstall required?

moster
September 16th, 2009, 10:33 PM
I only now realise that Alpha1 is done! I am waiting for this few years :D

I try it in virtualbox and it so fast that is not realistic. hm... cold start 12 sec, shutdown 2-3 sec. Cold start web browser based on firefox 2.0 is 2.8 sec. I know it is not loaded yet with everything but whole OS seems blazing fast.

Just to compare, I have OpenSolaris in virtualbox too. OpenSolaris feels like someone pull handbrake comparing to haiku.

NormanFLinux
September 16th, 2009, 10:34 PM
You can do an in-place upgrade on Ubuntu and on PCLOS. When a new version is released, the distribution will offer an upgrade option and once the upgrade is complete you can then reboot into the new version. I have done that a few times in Kubuntu on Jaunty Jacklope just downloading and upgrading to a new KDE version from the Jaunty backports with no problems.

Slug71
September 16th, 2009, 10:41 PM
You can do an in-place upgrade on Ubuntu and on PCLOS. When a new version is released, the distribution will offer an upgrade option and once the upgrade is complete you can then reboot into the new version. I have done that a few times in Kubuntu on Jaunty Jacklope just downloading and upgrading to a new KDE version from the Jaunty backports with no problems.

Yeh i am aware of that but was asking if thats possible with Haiku?

NormanFLinux
September 16th, 2009, 10:46 PM
No - not with the Haiku alpha. It lacks a package manager and update utility so any upgrade would require a fresh install.

Frak
September 16th, 2009, 10:48 PM
Yeh i am aware of that but was asking if thats possible with Haiku?
No. No upgrading system has been implemented yet. They'll implement that after they finish the core system.

DeadSuperHero
September 16th, 2009, 10:50 PM
I can't wait to see their Webkit port.

Interestingly enough, I met one of the project leaders (Urias, I think) at OSCON back in July. Apparently they had been speculating on adapting the Qt toolkit for the system due to its extendability.

ubongo2008
September 16th, 2009, 10:55 PM
Yeh i am aware of that but was asking if thats possible with Haiku?

did you follow this thread ... it took years to get an alpha out ... so there won't be much upgrading any time soon :lolflag:

moster
September 16th, 2009, 11:03 PM
did you follow this thread ... it took years to get an alpha out ... so there won't be much upgrading any time soon :lolflag:

WHAT!? I am expecting EXPLODING of development after alpha1 :D

(let me dream for a while)

Regenweald
September 16th, 2009, 11:08 PM
I can't wait to see their Webkit port.

Interestingly enough, I met one of the project leaders (Urias, I think) at OSCON back in July. Apparently they had been speculating on adapting the Qt toolkit for the system due to its extendability.

While I am no fan of the KDE desktop, I do think that Qt is a great development platform : SMplayer, Maemo.... So that a well designed, multi-threaded Qt desktop may well give Haiku a very modern attractive desktop. It would look hot is all i'm saying.

Regenweald
September 16th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Well, can't wait for another 8 years when they'll release the beta. ;)


did you follow this thread ... it took years to get an alpha out ... so there won't be much upgrading any time soon :lolflag:

Not trying to be argumentative here, but i don't get the joke ;) We are talking about an entire operating system here: Kernel, FS, network subsystems etc. all done in 8 meager years. This is not 8 years to alpha for a DE or 8 years to alpha for a Linux distro. This was all written from scratch by a handful of developers with foundation technology rivaling everything else today.

Why i respect the project: They wrote it for me, a desktop user. It's not server tech below a mashup of packaged components trying to be a desktop OS. It is a desktop OS :)

Frak
September 16th, 2009, 11:26 PM
Why i respect the project: They wrote it for me, a desktop user. It's not server tech below a mashup of packaged components trying to be a desktop OS. It is a desktop OS :)

This is possibly one of the largest problems with Linux. Many of the components were never made for personal use. Instead, they were moulded for use in a Desktop system. While they did well, it will never match a system that was specifically designed to be a Desktop OS.

Slug71
September 16th, 2009, 11:33 PM
No - not with the Haiku alpha. It lacks a package manager and update utility so any upgrade would require a fresh install.


No. No upgrading system has been implemented yet. They'll implement that after they finish the core system.

That sucks. Might wait then as it will be going on a system with multiple OS's and i dont wanna be screwing with the boatloaders everytime.

ubongo2008
September 16th, 2009, 11:42 PM
Not trying to be argumentative here, but i don't get the joke ;) We are talking about an entire operating system here: Kernel, FS, network subsystems etc. all done in 8 meager years. This is not 8 years to alpha for a DE or 8 years to alpha for a Linux distro. This was all written from scratch by a handful of developers with foundation technology rivaling everything else today.

Why i respect the project: They wrote it for me, a desktop user. It's not server tech below a mashup of packaged components trying to be a desktop OS. It is a desktop OS :)

well my intention was not to play an joke on them ... i respect their work of course but nevertheless i think it will still take some time

Regenweald
September 16th, 2009, 11:57 PM
This is possibly one of the largest problems with Linux. Many of the components were never made for personal use. Instead, they were moulded for use in a Desktop system. While they did well, it will never match a system that was specifically designed to be a Desktop OS.

For sure, Linux does exceedingly well IMO but the monolithic kernel does have a lot of features that many of us will never use.


well my intention was not to play an joke on them ... i respect their work of course but nevertheless i think it will still take some time

and i agree :) I think in another 2-3 years it will be one of the leaders, well maybe not leader but probably one of the best...The prospect of a desktop OS working the way it *should* is very exciting.

Warpnow
September 17th, 2009, 01:06 AM
All I know is that the liveCD ran extremely slow for me. 20 minutes to get a menu, and over 5 for each application to open.

handy
September 17th, 2009, 01:32 AM
What do you love about it?

FreeNAS setup really quickly & simply, it is reliable as can be, it has a superb client side browser interface for observation/adjustment/control.

I never have to think about it, it just works exactly as it is supposed to, that's all I can think of off hand. :)

handy
September 17th, 2009, 01:34 AM
I wonder how well it handles DVD's and TV Viewing...

You obviously don't know what your talking about:

http://www.freenas.org/

handy
September 17th, 2009, 01:39 AM
No, I can see where CJ Master is coming from. It may make sense to base Haiku on BeOS and its "beautiful file system", but compatibility makes little or no sense to me. Why waste time and effort on backward compatibility? Are users likely to run old BeOS programs on their new Haiku systems?

Being 100% compatible with BeOS, is just the first step. After which Haiku will grow beyond. There are apparently quite a few projects running parallel to Haiku that will rely on Haiku.

Spend some time on their website?

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 01:47 AM
You obviously don't know what your talking about:

http://www.freenas.org/

I am talking about Haiku.

---

At any rate it doesn't even load on my Dell Latitude D530, (still talking about Haiku) Kernel Panics, it posted a error code but I forgot it and didn't have anything to write it down with at the time, but meh. Loads fine on my old Gateway 500se though. LiveCD's responsiveness has room for improvement...but then again it was being ran through the Gateway's CD-ROM instead of it DVD-ROM and well its a Live-CD of course. All in all I suppose its alright, wouldn't detect my Netgear USB Wireless adapter but then again neither has any Linux Distro so really no points off on that.

NormanFLinux
September 17th, 2009, 01:52 AM
You need an Atheros wireless card. Its Linux-friendly. I'd ditch the Netgear if I was you.

Meh

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 01:56 AM
You need an Atheros wireless card. Its Linux-friendly. I'd ditch the Netgear if I was you.

Meh

lol sure send me one.

I also got a Encore one, its crap on windows but is ok in Linux.

handy
September 17th, 2009, 01:59 AM
All in all I suppose its alright, wouldn't detect my Netgear USB Wireless adapter but then again neither has any Linux Distro so really no points off on that.

Did you read the Haiku installation notes? There is no wireless support at this stage.

Alpha_1, there isn't a package manager, there isn't LOTS of things.

BUT it installs for many, it is incredibly fast for many, it also has bugs for many.

I think that the Alpha release will increase interest, support, bug reports & the overall speed of development of Haiku. All good news.

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Did you read the Haiku installation notes? There is no wireless support at this stage.

Alpha_1, there isn't a package manager, there isn't LOTS of things.

BUT it installs for many, it is incredibly fast for many, it also has bugs for many.

I think that the Alpha release will increase interest, support, bug reports & the overall speed of development of Haiku. All good news.

Nope I'm illiterate. :p But I suppose could possibly be the reason for it. Who knows. prehaps it just doesn't feel like detecting it :p

benj1
September 17th, 2009, 02:18 AM
This is possibly one of the largest problems with Linux. Many of the components were never made for personal use. Instead, they were moulded for use in a Desktop system. While they did well, it will never match a system that was specifically designed to be a Desktop OS.

but the greatest stengths of unix, and by extension linux come from their non desktop roots, they were designed as multi user systems unlike windows et al.

to be fair linux started being written 18 years ago, a hell of a lot has changed in that time, in another 18 years alot more will change, and it will probably transpire that haiku has got somethings wrong.

im fairly confident a broadly designed os will adapt in the future better than one that has been specifically designed (if that makes sense)

Frak
September 17th, 2009, 02:32 AM
to be fair linux started being written 18 years ago, a hell of a lot has changed in that time, in another 18 years alot more will change, and it will probably transpire that haiku has got somethings wrong.

The GNU Project started long before the Linux project begun. Again, the GNU project is filling in a broad range of interests, not focusing on one ideal.


im fairly confident a broadly designed os will adapt in the future better than one that has been specifically designed (if that makes sense)

No, it doesn't make sense. If all I have to worry about is desktop support, I don't have to worry about the server users having problems and possibly b0rking both platforms.

CJ Master
September 17th, 2009, 02:40 AM
Being 100% compatible with BeOS, is just the first step. After which Haiku will grow beyond. There are apparently quite a few projects running parallel to Haiku that will rely on Haiku.

Spend some time on their website?

Yes, I know it's the first step! It simply seems like an unnecessary first step, although I guess it's all a matter of opinion.

benj1
September 17th, 2009, 03:16 AM
No, it doesn't make sense. If all I have to worry about is desktop support, I don't have to worry about the server users having problems and possibly b0rking both platforms.

i was talking from a basic design perspective,
linux was designed in 1991, computing was very different then, if you had made a desktop specific system then, you would have no end of problems now, as microsoft is finding out now due to essentially not taking the internet into account.
haiku is being written for now, in 18 years god knows how we will use our pcs.

the point is haiku is being specifically designed as a desktop system, at this present moment, yes it may be better in many/most/all desktop orientated aspects but in the future it may not be able to keep up with change precisely because it has been specifically designed for the desktop.
linux on the other hand make less assumptions on how it is to be used and so is alot more flexible, yes it may not be the best desktop os now, but in the future when we all control computers through a plug in our cranium linux will be better able to adapt.

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 03:29 AM
i was talking from a basic design perspective,
linux was designed in 1991, computing was very different then, if you had made a desktop specific system then, you would have no end of problems now, as microsoft is finding out now due to essentially not taking the internet into account.
haiku is being written for now, in 18 years god knows how we will use our pcs.

the point is haiku is being specifically designed as a desktop system, at this present moment, yes it may be better in many/most/all desktop orientated aspects but in the future it may not be able to keep up with change precisely because it has been specifically designed for the desktop.
linux on the other hand make less assumptions on how it is to be used and so is alot more flexible, yes it may not be the best desktop os now, but in the future when we all control computers through a plug in our cranium linux will be better able to adapt.

Linux started as a desktop system. :) In fact it only ran on 386 (which back then was know as the IBM PC or IBM-compatible PC). It's around 95-96 when it started showing promise as a server. Linus designed Linux with very little portability in mind, it was hard coded for 386. It just kind of inherited portability later on.

However, Linux is based on UNIX, and UNIX is far far far away from a "PC OS", in fact it was designed around the time where huge mainframes was the norm. :) So some of the architecture reflects this, down to the names of devices like "tty1" (stands for teletype, an ancient I/O device). In fact making a successful UNIX desktop OS has a lot of hiding the complexity of the underlying architecture from the user. ;-)

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 03:38 AM
The whole six videos running at once thing doesn't say much. Most of the CPU complexity of playing a video occurs due to the synthesis of the frames from the compressed information. Modern codecs can compress the file size of a video significantly, but this comes at a cost of massive signal decoding complexity. This taxes the CPU more. So a better example is could BeOS decode a HD H.264 video running on a 300Mhz processor? I wouldn't think so. :lolflag:

Software wise, the codec is the thing that really matters in the CPU complexity of the synthesis algorithm. The scheduler may play a small part, but this mostly if the system is under stress. Otherwise most of the processes on your system are sleeping anyway. :)

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 03:45 AM
ooh I just thought of something when they say they are just focusing on desktops do they mean just the actual desktop pcs or are Laptops understood as part of this "desktop" focus? Just trying to make sure this is clear. If Laptops are being left out in the cold that could no doubt explain why it didn't work on my dell...

CJ Master
September 17th, 2009, 03:48 AM
ooh I just thought of something when they say they are just focusing on desktops do they mean just the actual desktop pcs or are Laptops understood as part of this "desktop" focus? Just trying to make sure this is clear. If Laptops are being left out in the cold that could no doubt explain why it didn't work on my dell...

"Desktop" as in "not server," pretty much. (Along with "not supercomputer," etc.)

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 03:49 AM
ooh I just thought of something when they say they are just focusing on desktops do they mean just the actual desktop pcs or are Laptops understood as part of this "desktop" focus? Just trying to make sure this is clear. If Laptops are being left out in the cold that could no doubt explain why it didn't work on my dell...

It didn't work on your Dell because it lacks drivers, or the drivers are faulty in some way. Basically the entire PC ecosystem is a giant mess, with thousands of different models of different chips and hardware. Drivers have to be written for them

If you look at the Linux kernel source code, almost all of it is drivers. Seriously. And the Linux kernel is like close to 8 million lines of code. That is massive, if you are wondering. :)

Frak
September 17th, 2009, 03:54 AM
However, Linux is based on UNIX

I hear this a lot.

dragos240
September 17th, 2009, 03:55 AM
Linux started as a desktop system. :) In fact it only ran on 386 (which back then was know as the IBM PC or IBM-compatible PC). It's around 95-96 when it started showing promise as a server. Linus designed Linux with very little portability in mind, it was hard coded for 386. It just kind of inherited portability later on.

However, Linux is based on UNIX, and UNIX is far far far away from a "PC OS", in fact it was designed around the time where huge mainframes was the norm. :) So some of the architecture reflects this, down to the names of devices like "tty1" (stands for teletype, an ancient I/O device). In fact making a successful UNIX desktop OS has a lot of hiding the complexity of the underlying architecture from the user. ;-)

WRONG! Linux is based on the concept of unix, and is built from scratch.

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 03:56 AM
It didn't work on your Dell because it lacks drivers, or the drivers are faulty in some way. Basically the entire PC ecosystem is a giant mess, with thousands of different models of different chips and hardware. Drivers have to be written for them

If you look at the Linux kernel source code, almost all of it is drivers. Seriously. And the Linux kernel is like close to 8 million lines of code. That is massive, if you are wondering. :)

I think the error code was 0303 or something like it, and I remember it mentioning it be at 0x0 afterwards or something like that, if that helps at all.

Frak
September 17th, 2009, 03:57 AM
WRONG! Linux is based on the concept of unix, and is built from scratch.
Clooooooose

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 03:58 AM
WRONG! Linux is based on the concept of unix, and is built from scratch.

That is what I meant when I said "based on". In English this is a very subjective qualifier.

Linux is based on UNIX as Blade Runner is based on Do Andriods Dream of Electronic Sheep.

Both very good works of art, I may add. :)

Frak
September 17th, 2009, 04:00 AM
That is what I meant when I said "based on". In English this is a very subjective qualifier.

Linux is based on UNIX as Blade Runner is based on Do Andriods Dream of Electronic Sheep.

Both very good works of art, I may add. :)
Wasn't inspired, wasn't based on. Linux was inspired/based on Minix. It has almost nothing to do with UNIX.

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 04:01 AM
I think the error code was 0303 or something like it, and I remember it mentioning it be at 0x0 afterwards or something like that, if that helps at all.

You can register with the bug tracker: http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki

And report it directly, but please be as detailed as possible in your bug report.

CJ Master
September 17th, 2009, 04:02 AM
Wasn't inspired, wasn't based on. Linux was inspired/based on Minix. It has almost nothing to do with UNIX.

Exactly, I'm not sure why people keep thinking it's based on UNIX. Where's the love for Minix?

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 04:03 AM
Wasn't inspired, wasn't based on. Linux was inspired/based on Minix. It has almost nothing to do with UNIX.

Minix is based on UNIX by the way.

If you look at Wikipedia it will clearly state:
Linux (commonly pronounced /ˈlɪnʌks/, LI-nuks)[5][6][7] is a generic term referring to Unix-like computer operating systems based on the Linux kernel.

Not to mention Linux process, threading, socket and security models (parts of POSIX of course), are based on UNIX fundamentals.

You can be pedantic though, I don't mind. :lolflag:

MasterNetra
September 17th, 2009, 04:04 AM
Correction
It was:
Panic: Fatal Exception "NMI Interrupt" has occurred. Error code: 0x0

(I think I got it verbatim, Short Term Memorization )

Update: Submitted a Ticket for it.

yabbadabbadont
September 17th, 2009, 04:05 AM
Minix is based on UNIX by the way.

I thought that Minix was "castrated Multix"...

Frak
September 17th, 2009, 04:05 AM
Minix is based on UNIX by the way.

If you look at Wikipedia it will clearly state:
Linux (commonly pronounced /ˈlɪnʌks/, LI-nuks)[5][6][7] is a generic term referring to Unix-like computer operating systems based on the Linux kernel.

Not to mention Linux process, threading, socket and security models (parts of POSIX of course), are based on UNIX fundamentals.

You can be pedantic though, I don't mind. :lolflag:
Unix-like is much different than based-on Unix.

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 04:09 AM
I thought that Minix was "castrated Multix"...

It's a UNIX-like OS. It's very simple though, designed to be easy to understand and small (originally for teaching purposes).

It's an OS that you probably will get to hack on if you ever take an OS design course at a reputable university. That's because it comes bundled as part of the textbook.

Although a lot of schools are now going with the Dino book, so no MINIX. :(

dragos240
September 17th, 2009, 04:11 AM
I might actually try haiku, when it finally gets wireless support.

yabbadabbadont
September 17th, 2009, 04:18 AM
No it's a UNIX-like OS. It's very simple though, designed to be easy to understand and small (originally for teaching purposes).

It's an OS that you probably will get to hack on if you ever take an OS design course at a reputable university. That's because it comes bundled as part of the textbook.

Although a lot of schools are now going with the Dino book, so no MINIX. :(

My OS design class occurred at about the same time that Tanenbaum's book was being written...

(the first language taught in the curriculum was FORTRAN :lol:)

Edit: Actually, I took the FORTRAN class as part of an engineering course of study before I switched to CS and Math. By the time I had switched, Pascal was used as the first language.

benj1
September 17th, 2009, 04:21 AM
Linux started as a desktop system. :) In fact it only ran on 386 (which back then was know as the IBM PC or IBM-compatible PC). It's around 95-96 when it started showing promise as a server. Linus designed Linux with very little portability in mind, it was hard coded for 386. It just kind of inherited portability later on.

However, Linux is based on UNIX, and UNIX is far far far away from a "PC OS", in fact it was designed around the time where huge mainframes was the norm. :) So some of the architecture reflects this, down to the names of devices like "tty1" (stands for teletype, an ancient I/O device). In fact making a successful UNIX desktop OS has a lot of hiding the complexity of the underlying architecture from the user. ;-)

if linux had been written as a desktop os it wouldnt have been written in the same way as it has been, ie to be a unix clone/posix compatible/etc so my point still stands :P

phrostbyte
September 17th, 2009, 04:26 AM
My OS design class occurred at about the same time that Tanenbaum's book was being written...

(the first language taught in the curriculum was FORTRAN :lol:)

Edit: Actually, I took the FORTRAN class as part of an engineering course of study before I switched to CS and Math. By the time I had switched, Pascal was used as the first language.

FORTRAN!! That's awesome. :) LAPACK is probably one of the most useful things to come from FORTRAN. :KS I use it very often (in it's C form).

No Pascal at the school I went to. Actually the Intro to CS course was thought with C, which from what I understand is fairly uncommon (AFAIK most schools use Scheme or Java).

FuriousGeorge
September 17th, 2009, 06:10 AM
The only thing more encouraging to me than the Alpha release is that people on this forum are not flaming it.

When I saw the title of this thread I remembered a friend of mine who is the only other person I've ever personally known to use Linux as a primary Desktop. He's been using it since before I tried the BeOS, and he just loved to trash (read: feel threatened) by BeOS.

He was so happy to see Be Inc go under, and his eyes even twinkled as he told me it was dead. Years later he would never miss an opportunity to try and convince me it really was dead, despite several "spin offs".

It's nice to see members of this forum are as a whole nothing like him.

I was always "into" computers. Then one day I decided to try out the BeOS and no OS has ever felt the same. When Be, Inc. started to go under I waited a while to see if anyone would pick it up, then I jumped ship to Mandrake... then to Gentoo where I stayed until last year. Then I switched to Kubuntu, and I've used that primarily until last week when an upgrade broke my RAID (sigh). I've always like Linux, but like a dysfunctional couple, we are on break again.

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't even try to fix it. I just started using Vista primarily. I'm sure it was my fault I broke bootup, and I'm sure an individual > me could have avoided it, but I just don't have it in me anymore.

I see the point a lot of people are making regarding the seeming futility of having the #1 design goal be R5 compatibility. Perhaps the devs feel that the years of BeOS development provide a better platform than none to build upon. Checkout www.bebits.com. You can't compare to Linux, but the amount of software written for this OS is non-trivial.

To those astonished by how long it took, I have to agree with the fellows who have already pointed out: This is a whole OS, not some app or E17 (ok, bad example there ;) )

oobuntoo
September 17th, 2009, 06:33 AM
One thing that bothers me when I looked at Haiku's roadmap is that they have floppy support listed. Why bother with obsolete technology nobody uses anymore. If they keep wasting time on things like this, Duke Nukem Forever will probably get released before Haiku.

hanzomon4
September 17th, 2009, 07:30 AM
One thing that bothers me when I looked at Haiku's roadmap is that they have floppy support listed. Why bother with obsolete technology nobody uses anymore. If they keep wasting time on things like this, Duke Nukem Forever will probably get released before Haiku.

Dude I just had to go out and buy a zip disk for an emu sampler I'm using in my Studio Techniques class. It only takes zip and floppy, talk about being in a state of shock.

moster
September 17th, 2009, 08:15 AM
if linux had been written as a desktop os it wouldnt have been written in the same way as it has been, ie to be a unix clone/posix compatible/etc so my point still stands :P

Lets be totally honest. Linus created free OS for his desktop usage. I do not think he actually think of any specific task (server, multimedia, etc). Just free OS to for general computing.

I still somehow doubt that haiku developers can finish this. Just look how many people is involved in linux. Firms like Intel and others... and still not just there yet. After so many years and so many peoples making effort we still have flaky sound support for example. Just to compare, I do not remember sound problems even in original windows 95. If soundcard was supported it just worked fullstop.

I just do not see haw 100 haiku developers can make same effort as 5000 linux guys in less amount of time of course if it not gonna take another 8 years to final product.

Somebody?

koki
September 17th, 2009, 08:42 AM
Please forgive me, but this late into the game it's pretty dumb to want full compatibility with BeOS. It's like Microsoft's major plan before they release W7 would be to get full compatibility with DOS... Is BeOS not very old and obsolete? Then again, I could very well be completely wrong or missing something.

The binary compatibility goal was not so much for the sake of being able to run old (closed source) binaries, but more to keep the devs focused on a well-defined development target.


Well, in itself Haiku is a decent system, but with all this BeOS hype around it I was expecting a new revolutionary OS... Everything I could do in Haiku I could do in Windows/GNOME, and probably easier.

Haiku does not claim to be a replacement for Windows/Linux/Mac today, but rather a long-term proposition with a specific focus on personal computing.

[QUOTE=CJ Master;7955716]For some dumb reason clicking on an HTML file loads up notepad instead of Firefox, and the menu seemed rather below-par.

The HTML file opening in the text editor (it is not Notepad, btw) is a bug; please, keep in mind that what you tested is alpha software, so there bugs, both known and unknown ones. By the way, bug reports can be filed here:

http://dev.haiku-os.org


Not to mention the lack of a package manager.

Haiku does not suffer from the Linux-style dependency hell, so the lack of a package manager is not critical at this stage. That being said, a package manager is being planned though, and is most likely to be included in the first release following R1.


Well, can't wait for another 8 years when they'll release the beta. ;)

You will most likely be surprised at how fast the following development milestones and the final R1 will come.

bigboy_pdb
September 17th, 2009, 08:51 AM
In response to the original question, which is "What's the big deal with Haiku OS?", the answer is: Nothing (for most people and for the time being).

To gain support an OS needs to fill a user niche or it has to do something that other OSes cannot do.

For example, Windows is used due to its popularity, people's dependency on it, and due to its support for video games. MACs are marketed as being very simple, and Linux is a system that is highly customizable and useful for hackers and developers.

Unless Haiku OS does something revolutionary or fills a niche that many people feels is important then most people won't find it interesting.

I watched a few videos on it for a little while and read some information on it and I didn't see anything that I thought made it worth downloading. Even if it's end design gives it the potential to be faster than other OSes, an alpha release which has limited features and functionality cannot be compared to other stable and feature rich OSes.

Also, the goals of the project don't need to be developed in conjunction and it seems as though they should be split up into different projects. This makes it seem as though the project results won't be widely adopted.

Perhaps, in the future, it may become interesting.

handy
September 17th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Lets be totally honest. Linus created free OS for his desktop usage. I do not think he actually think of any specific task (server, multimedia, etc). Just free OS to for general computing.

You should have a look at the "Revolution OS" movie, it is legally free on the internet, & very educational.

Linus created (using GNU dev' packages) the kernel for what turned out to be, in combination with so many other GNU packages (without which the OS would not have been possible at that stage, or any stage thus far, now that I think about it) an OS that was eventually called Linux.

A prime reason why he wanted to do this, was to have a free OS that could run on his own personal computer to further his studies. As he (like most every other student) couldn't possibly afford a mini or mainframe computer running Minix, which is what he used at his university.



I still somehow doubt that haiku developers can finish this. Just look how many people is involved in linux. Firms like Intel and others... and still not just there yet. After so many years and so many peoples making effort we still have flaky sound support for example. Just to compare, I do not remember sound problems even in original windows 95. If soundcard was supported it just worked fullstop.

As an IT tech' that used to work on & build those machines that ran win3, 95, 98 & such. The sound cards did work if they were supported, but they didn't all just work; you had to make jumper settings on all of them. Many of them were a total pain in the neck, often requiring a certain order in what you did, that is, when you installed the card & the windows OS & such, the installation of the drivers for many of these cards could take a lot of time stuffing about before the sound would work, or at least work properly.

I think that the Haiku dev's will benefit a great deal from the work that the Linux people have already done with regard to reverse engineering drivers. The code will have to be translated into Haiku, which I'm sure is easier said than done. ;)



I just do not see haw 100 haiku developers can make same effort as 5000 linux guys in less amount of time of course if it not gonna take another 8 years to final product.

I think that the hardest work for Haiku may be over. The dev's have created from scratch, an already improved in many ways free BeOS called Haiku & it is at Alpha_1. In only 8 years, which is incredible.

This Alpha, is already generating more interest, which will translate into many more users, bug reports & more coders, all of which will speed the development of Haiku up dramatically, there really should be an ongoing snowball effect.

The other thing in Haiku's benefit, is that it is not intended to be used as a server, so there is all of that which Linux does so well, that doesn't have to be developed for Haiku.

Lets just see as the coming months & years roll by what Haiku has for us. I think that this Alpha release has put Haiku on the IT map, & that the recognition of Haiku will just keep on growing.

I certainly hope so anyway. :)

FuriousGeorge
September 17th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Lets be totally honest. Linus created free
I just do not see haw 100 haiku developers can make same effort as 5000 linux guys in less amount of time of course if it not gonna take another 8 years to final product.

Somebody?

Lets say they get up to 1666 developers, and the scope of their project is 1/3 of Linux's. They'll have 1/3rd the developers for 1/3rd the scope. (100% Scope of Linux - Server Platform - Embedded Platform - Others = 33%)

Just thinking wishfully.




To gain support an OS needs to fill a user niche or it has to do something that other OSes cannot do.


You're absolutely right. BeOS always wanted to be the "MultemediaOS". I think they coined that term. There was always hope that given the merits of the platform someone would write a good sound / video editing app, and things would snowball from there.

It came with a sound mixing app (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dmiX) that basically exemplified the genius of the system. A 3D plane was presented to the user. Audio files dragged onto this plane would cause a "bar" (as in bar graph) to be displayed. Dragging the bar left and right adjusted the balance of the stereo, while forward and backwards adjusted the volume. Under the plane users could drag the start time of the selected file to and fro on a time line. You could spin the plane around just for eye candy. I'd never mixed audio before or since, but it took five seconds to figure out how that app worked.

http://www.masuseki.com/be/r5/r5_apps/3DMix.png

Small potatoes today, no doubt, but in 1999 it felt like magic. And yes, I could play 4 low res videos and 8 mp3s without dropping frames or stuttering audio on my PII-250 Slot1 Intel (Why? because I could.). Sure, no big deal today, but still no system has ever felt as responsive.

Anyway, the "Killer App", as the community used to call it, never materialized, perhaps because Be Inc decided to refocus their efforts to BeIA, basically an OS for embedded applications. One went to market and flopped, and I believe Compaq was the hardware supplier.

Alas, the BeIA powered refrigerator never materialized. I'm not making that up. It was at least a nominally better concept than the 1969 $10,600 45KG Honeywell 316 Kitchen Computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_316).

Mornedhel
September 17th, 2009, 11:02 AM
After so many years and so many peoples making effort we still have flaky sound support for example. Just to compare, I do not remember sound problems even in original windows 95. If soundcard was supported it just worked fullstop.

1. Sound is flaky on Linux in no small part because we have several layers all trying to achieve the same thing : OSS, ALSA, PulseAudio. BSDs have OSS 4 working fine. The sound architecture in Linux is mostly broken, but we keep PulseAudio for a feature that about no one uses (sound over network).

2. "Just to compare", I have sound problems right now on a mainstream laptop with an up to date driver on an up to date Vista. No sound comes out of the front panel jacks, only from the built in speakers. It works in Linux (apart for the multiplexing issues). It used to work fine in Vista as well : it broke after an update.

3. Linux is largely a community-driven effort with no single goal : a usable OS emerged from that effort more by coincidence than anything (enough userland apps were created that it became usable by mostly anyone). Haiku has a community, but as far as I can tell their roadmaps cover the entire project, they don't have a roadmap for Gnome, another for the kernel, etc.

Of particular interest is a ticket in the Unscheduled milestone, "Kernel module to enable Linux drivers in Haiku". So they don't have to rewrite everything from the ground up, either.

free10
September 17th, 2009, 11:26 AM
Haiku is just released for more general consumption ALPHA Haiku 1.0 but this is mainly for coders and developers to use. Before it was released they showed that it had 4000 bugs and they had stomped out 3000 of them.

BeOS was designed in the 90s from scratch "for the future", and a future we are just NOW are entering. Intel in the 90s (a partner and heavy investor in it) tested it in their labs and showed it stable running 8 CPUS, and in fact you could chose how many CPUs you wanted it to use in a simple menu showing 1 to 8. BeOS was actually made for 8 CPUs to run their system just as Intel was telling them of their future plans in the 90s. Today I do not know ANY operating system built and designed for more than ONE cpu because they are all very OLD base systems decades before the 90s and they have to follow the rules or laws of the very old systems that never saw the future coming and was designed around text handling.

Yes they can run on more than one CPU but they do it more in a simulation way and still today most of their apps have only 1 or two threads. 2 was the minimum to run on BeOS per app and 8 threads was "recommended" for each one.

BeOS did is 6 or 7 videos in the 90s on 90s slow slow hardware and slow single small drives even with "uncompressed" video raw files. Boot times were 30 seconds THEN for BeOS and now 7 to 12 in early alpha state and it will drop more. Must be another trick LOL

All GUIs looks are changeable in desktop systems and so in Haiku. It has the 90s look of a Mac 09 but with advancements, which BeOS was designed for at first. with BeOS. Haiku has more advancement though on how they "work" then BeOS. It is all user changeable.

It took 8 years to get this far, because it is brand spanking new almost totally and not some minor code variation of previous coding AND because for about 4 or 5 years it was being done and in the control of ONE MAN by himself on his free time. Two years ago there was over 7 million lines of code in Haiku. A few years back the one guy turned the code over to a team of about 5 guys I think to take it the rest of the way and to guide finishing it off. They do a lot of the coding now but are picking up more volunteers and Google has been suppling a few for them each summer the last 3 years under their summer of code programs.

Now how long to solve the wifi, the mouse cursor bug some see, or the other little headaches or incomplete features?? Well it depends on how many people join their small merry band of coders worldwide. The excitement is building and so are the coders and developers in the last months.

Here are some short videos

Haiku OS running on Asus EeePC 701

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTk02o3GaPg

Urias-McCullough---Haiku-Project---LinuxWorld-2008

http://www.gvsmedia.com/video-2/J41MIFllX8M/Urias-McCullough---Haiku-Project---LinuxWorld-2008

a simple tutorial for the Haiku OS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbnc_bgb1YM

Haiku-Presentation.mp4

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1792768391431887158&ei=JfWxSp68O5OerAKl9LHyAQ&q=haiku+OS&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

How Fast Can Haiku Be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnjM-kaZje0

Haiku OS booting and and turning off in an EeePC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VQ2_BBFOI

Windows on Haiku OS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwULTCODdA

Google Tech Talks February 13, 2007 ABSTRACT This is an introduction to Haiku

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879&ei=QQCyStrkNpq2qwKBtbH3AQ&q=haiku+os&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

BeOS Demo video....64mb of ram, 3gig hard drive, 2 video cards (about 4 or 8 megs of ram on each), CPUs 2 PII @ 266mhz

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1659841654840942756&ei=GAGySv2hHISSrAKkpY2PAg&q=beos+OS&hl=en&emb=1&client=firefox-a#

Software, but not all will work as some are dead links now for some of the BeOS software and you may need one for the Haiku version.

http://www.bebits.com/

Microsoft testified under oath the BeOS was going to put them and all others out of business IF they were allow on computers loaded with Windows in dual boot. They said as BeOS gained more apps the users would more and more choose booting into BeOS and eventually never boot into Windows again for anything. They also said because it could run on so many types of hardware all other companies like Apple would fall too. Well they killed the company but BeOS is resurfacing under open source Haiku and no where for them to hide now especially with todays technologies.

moster
September 17th, 2009, 11:44 AM
free10, I just have to say WoW :)

Portmanteaufu
September 17th, 2009, 09:42 PM
This is exciting! I'm particularly inspired by the notion that Haiku has allegedly done amazing things with multithreading deep in the kernel -- I'll definitely learn the ins and outs of a new operating system if it means huge performance benefits. Are these changes something that Linux could gradually incorporate? Can anyone explain them to me in some detail? (Analogies are always appreciated! :) )

That said, I would be coming to Haiku from a Linux-heavy background. Can anyone point me to some documentation illustrating the differences I would have to overcome to write Haiku software or port Linux programs to Haiku? If, for instance, I wanted to move GIMP to Haiku, would I be completely stymied by the lack of GTK+ on Haiku? Does Haiku have only one GUI library?

I note that their website says that they are "largely" Posix-compliant. What's missing?

(Note: I've read the FAQ et al on their website. I didn't happen upon the answers to my questions. Please don't flog me if I was just too unlucky to spot them. Tyvm!)

Regenweald
September 17th, 2009, 09:51 PM
:lolflag:Why are so many attacking Haiku though ? I mean, no one is going to snatch away your beloved OS of choice...So why the typical FOSS tribal hatred and stupidity ?

handy
September 17th, 2009, 09:52 PM
@Portmanteaufu: I think you should join the Haiku forum, as you will get accurate answers & pointers from those involved in the development of Haiku.

Sircoelho
September 17th, 2009, 11:12 PM
I love minimalism and I like the OS premise. But needs a LOT of work. I gave a try and felt like using Linux in 1999.

moster
September 17th, 2009, 11:24 PM
State of the art technology, open source and desktop priority. What more a real man need? ;)

oobuntoo
September 17th, 2009, 11:52 PM
:lolflag:Why are so many attacking Haiku though ? I mean, no one is going to snatch away your beloved OS of choice...So why the typical FOSS tribal hatred and stupidity ?

Nobody is attacking Haiku. People just don't understand why there's so much praise and hype for an OS that has very little to show and taken so long just to get to alpha stage. Perhaps one day (20 years from now?) it might become an OS that people are touting it to be, but not today. So, tone down the hype just a bit. :wink:

tjwoosta
September 18th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Its funny, I know people that say the same things about linux, minus the alpha stage of course.

Sporkman
September 18th, 2009, 12:08 AM
Its funny, I know people that say the same things about linux, minus the alpha stage of course.

...but linux has wireless support. :)

Regenweald
September 18th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Nobody is attacking Haiku. People just don't understand why there's so much praise and hype for an OS that has very little to show and taken so long just to get to alpha stage. Perhaps one day (20 years from now?) it might become an OS that people are touting it to be, but not today. So, tone down the hype just a bit. :wink:

But why the aggressive tone ? and the snide 20 years remark ? An OS based on different ideals with more promising technology and some people are happy/excited for the project. You are not interested, cool, but should no one else be ?

handy
September 18th, 2009, 12:54 AM
Quite a few of us have been keeping an eye on Haiku for years. So the Alpha_1 release is a really important milestone for us. Therefore enthusiasm (get it where you can). :)

I used to use Zeta-OS some years ago, which is BeOS based.

I'm still not sure if Zeta-OS is/was legal? :lolflag:

CJ Master
September 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM
:lolflag:Why are so many attacking Haiku though ? I mean, no one is going to snatch away your beloved OS of choice...So why the typical FOSS tribal hatred and stupidity ?

I see nobody attacking Haiku.

Grifulkin
September 18th, 2009, 01:02 AM
I just installed it in virtual box, in 10 minutes. It's fast, it's easy to use, it has some cool stuff packaged with it, what is not to like? If you don't like it fine, but I find all these new things very interesting. I now have a dual boot XP/Jaunty with Arch and Haiku in Virtualbox. God I love technology.

Also if there is a problem the program pops up and asks if you would like to see the debugger. I've never seen that before.

handy
September 18th, 2009, 01:11 AM
Also if there is a problem the program pops up and asks if you would like to see the debugger. I've never seen that before.

At least it is more polite than the way the old AmigaOS used to throw the rectangular red bordered Guru Meditation with its ID number & hex memory addresses! :P

Regenweald
September 18th, 2009, 01:55 AM
Also seems like there is a *lot* of former BeOS fans/developers who are ready to go on this project. With a quality alpha out things look promising :)

free10
September 18th, 2009, 05:38 AM
Also seems like there is a *lot* of former BeOS fans/developers who are ready to go on this project. With a quality alpha out things look promising :)

A lot true but how many and in how many countries is totally unknown. When BeOS "PE" was put on line around 2000 for free download there were around 1 million copies downloaded the first day. How many more in the days following it who knows. Today is way different in many different ways that you would give it a large edge over anything else, but at the same time it has lost some of its advantages because of advancements in hardware and operating systems many of which came from BeOS.

On the other hand a lot of road blocks put on BeOS by the Microsoft monopoly on drivers and other things seems to be loosening up quite a bit thanks to Ubuntu and other shifts in the commercial world. People play around more with their computers today and operating systems. I think in a month we might get a better idea on how this is going over and will playout.

oobuntoo
September 18th, 2009, 07:22 AM
But why the aggressive tone ? and the snide 20 years remark ? An OS based on different ideals with more promising technology and some people are happy/excited for the project. You are not interested, cool, but should no one else be ?

No aggression here, just pointing out the obvious. My 20-years remark is based on the numbers of developers behind this project and the fact that it took 8 years just to release an alpha. People are assuming that somehow a horde of developers are just going to jump on the Haiku bandwagon now that an alpha is released.

moster
September 18th, 2009, 08:55 AM
ppl, remember how in cheap horror movies there is always a guy who do not believe in anything when sh*t starts to happend? Of course, he never survives :D

Something like that we have in real life "Naah, its all bull.."

:D

mmix
September 18th, 2009, 09:06 AM
IIRC, Haiku's GUI is not based on Xorg nor DirectX.

Mornedhel
September 18th, 2009, 10:46 AM
No aggression here, just pointing out the obvious. My 20-years remark is based on the numbers of developers behind this project and the fact that it took 8 years just to release an alpha. People are assuming that somehow a horde of developers are just going to jump on the Haiku bandwagon now that an alpha is released.

Mohkay. I'm genuinely curious : how long did it take for Linux to get to the state that Haiku is at now ?

Regenweald
September 18th, 2009, 01:46 PM
No aggression here, just pointing out the obvious. My 20-years remark is based on the numbers of developers behind this project and the fact that it took 8 years just to release an alpha. People are assuming that somehow a horde of developers are just going to jump on the Haiku bandwagon now that an alpha is released.

But that is exactly the point, 8 years to functional alpha with writing an OS from scratch with a *very* small development team is amazing. You must not know very much about software development ;) This is not a software suite, It's an ENTIRE OS.

eby
September 18th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Can anyone point me to some documentation illustrating the differences I would have to overcome to write Haiku software or port Linux programs to Haiku? If, for instance, I wanted to move GIMP to Haiku,

GIMP is already available.

If you are interested in BeOS programming, try these first,

http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/

MasterNetra
September 18th, 2009, 05:48 PM
Correction
It was:
Panic: Fatal Exception "NMI Interrupt" has occurred. Error code: 0x0

(I think I got it verbatim, Short Term Memorization )

Update: Submitted a Ticket for it.


lol turned out to be a warning...sort of, and at the prompt just had to type continue and off it happily went! Thought I'd share that in case someone else runs into it. :)

CJ Master
September 18th, 2009, 06:06 PM
IIRC, Haiku's GUI is not based on Xorg nor DirectX.

Of course, also considering that DirectX is closed-source and is only for Windows. Did anybody on this topic actually say the Haiku used X or DirectX?

oobuntoo
September 18th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Mohkay. I'm genuinely curious : how long did it take for Linux to get to the state that Haiku is at now ?

Here is a linux timeline by Linux Journal:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6000

Linux was started in Aug. 1991 and by 1998 it was already being used by then start-up Google and offered to consumers by PC vendors like Dell and Gateway. I was already using Redhat 5.2 in 1998.
Where are we with Haiku after 8 years? If there was going to be a wide support for Haiku, it would have happened already.

moster
September 18th, 2009, 10:19 PM
Here is a linux timeline by Linux Journal:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6000

Linux was started in Aug. 1991 and by 1998 it was already being used by then start-up Google and offered to consumers by PC vendors like Dell and Gateway. I was already using Redhat 5.2 in 1998.
Where are we with Haiku after 8 years? If there was going to be a wide support for Haiku, it would have happened already.

I think that was largely because only linux was only free/opensource contender at that time. Now we have linux and here is no point in rush from here anywhere else. Open source gurus, enthusiasts, activists, etc are at home now and it is hard find reasons to change it.

Frak
September 18th, 2009, 10:32 PM
If there was going to be a wide support for Haiku, it would have happened already.

If BeOS made a great, scalable server OS, it would have had wide support. That, though, is not is goal, and therefore it will not experience the same process that GNU/Linux went through. Haiku will be accepted by Netbook manufacturers first, if anything. Why not now? What Netbook manufacturer wants an Alpha OS on their hardware?

NormanFLinux
September 18th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Its not ready for the consumer market. GEOS met a similar fate on the Brother line of notebooks. People just turned thumbs down to a non-Windows OS.

free10
September 19th, 2009, 05:43 AM
No aggression here, just pointing out the obvious. My 20-years remark is based on the numbers of developers behind this project and the fact that it took 8 years just to release an alpha. People are assuming that somehow a horde of developers are just going to jump on the Haiku bandwagon now that an alpha is released.

According to the reports below something big is a foot with Haiku and it's release of alpha 1. It is not just another NIX alpha hitting the scene but is the most FEARED OS of all time and it NOT NIX. It is MUCH faster, very stable, yet simple to use for the technically illiterate but combines a terminal for power users.

Microsoft did everything in its power to destroy it as BeOS and to keep it out of the market and OFF consumers computers. They muscled Best Buy to pull computers of their shelves loaded with it. It could run INSIDE of Windows similar to VM does now and on an update to Windows destroyed it. It dual booted with Windows and on the next versions of Windows on install it sought out any BeOS system on th users hard drive and wiped those partitions out. Dell was going to supply BeOS to their customers on their computers and Microsoft said they would destroy Dell if they did. Compaq had been pressured not to market an Internet appliance in partnership with Be Inc. Microsoft acted to artificially depress Be Inc's IPO. In Japan Hitachi verbally committed to Be that it would pre-install BeOS alongside Windows on a line of its personal computers. Hitachi also informed Be that after it had notified Microsoft of its intent to pre-install BeOS, Microsoft sent two managers to Japan to express Microsoft’s anger over the arrangement. Microsoft also threatened to raise the price of Windows to Hitachi if Hitachi installed Be’s boot manager on its computers. Hitachi was forced to remove any indication BeOS was loaded onto those computers too from the boot, the instructions for it, the outside of their computers, or any advertising they did for the computer.

http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/24/ms-multi-boot-sabotage/

Apple refused to disclose certain architectural information about its G3
PowerPC G3

PowerPC G3 was a designation used by Apple Computer to a third generation of PowerPC microprocessors from the PowerPC 750 family designed and manufactured by IBM and Motorola/Freescale Semiconductor....
line of computers—information Be deemed critical to making BeOS work on the latest hardware from Apple. In 1997, Power Computing
Power Computing

Power Computing Corporation was the first company selected by Apple Computer to create Macintosh-compatible computers. Stephen ?Steve? Kahng, a computer engineer best known for his design of the Leading Edge Model D, founded the company in November 1993....
began bundling BeOS (on a CD for optional installation) with its line of PowerPC-based Macintosh clone
Macintosh clone

A Macintosh clone is a personal computer made by a manufacturer other than Apple Inc., using Macintosh Firmwares and system software....
s. These systems could dual boot
Dual boot

Multi boot or Multi booting is the act of installing multiple operating systems on a computer, and being able to choose which one to Booting when switching on the computer power....
either the Mac OS
Mac OS

Mac OS is the trademarked name for a series of graphical user interface-based operating systems developed by Apple Inc. for their Macintosh line of computer systems....
or BeOS, with a startup screen offering the choice and Steve Jobs went after the clones.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/BeOS

Dangerous to the status quo.

Here comes Haiku and being open source now with an even more liberal MIT BDS license than Linux and it can't be stopped especially with the distribution market today the way it is.

There were some power housed developers behind BeOS and many more who wanted to be and for a whole lots of reasons they didn't dare. Yes, I see the possibility of Haiku gaining a lot supporters and developers quick.

soviet design deviant art presents a new wallpaper for the first Haiku Alpha

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs50/i/2009/260/f/a/Haiku_tan_Wallpaper_Pack_by_sovietdesign.png

What do reviewers say about Haiku below??


http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/09/hands-on-with-haiku-back-to-the-future-of-beos.ars

http://www.osnews.com/story/22156/In_the_Round_Haiku_Alpha_Released

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43975/140/

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/09/haiku_os_beta_1.html;jsessionid=2NV4NMMPFS3BPQE1GH PCKH4ATMY32JVN

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/beos-lives-again

keiichidono
September 19th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Thanks free, I casually read all the facts and links before but your post really opened my eyes. To add on, Be Inc created an integrated web browser operating system that also "happened" to not take off. Reminds me of Chrome OS. I wonder if Palm Inc would mind releasing all the original Be OS code under Apache like they did for some of the code.

-grubby
September 19th, 2009, 07:05 AM
I wonder if Palm Inc would mind releasing all the original Be OS code under Apache like they did for some of the code.

BeOS is now owned by Access Co (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Co.).

keiichidono
September 19th, 2009, 07:20 AM
BeOS is now owned by Access Co (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Co.).

Thanks for the update. Since they're active FOSS contributors have they open sourced Be OS? If not, i wonder if they would if we asked.

free10
September 19th, 2009, 07:43 AM
Thanks free, I casually read all the facts and links before but your post really opened my eyes. To add on, Be Inc created an integrated web browser operating system that also "happened" to not take off. Reminds me of Chrome OS. I wonder if Palm Inc would mind releasing all the original Be OS code under Apache like they did for some of the code.

Palm after they used part of the code and getting Gassee and many of the Be coders it then split into two companies, with one being Palm Source and then I believe it was bought by a company in Japan called Access that does a lot of custom software for Nokia and other big companies on cell phones, and I don't think they would want to give up the code.

But the source code for BeOS did go out the back door of Be Inc before they closed down but it is illegal to use or open source because of contracts.

Yep BeOS had its own very raw but fast and simple browser included called Netpositive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetPositive

http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/16-workhorse_apps/

but then Opera made a version for it
http://www.opera.com/download/?os=beos

and they got Firefox too though the best and fastest versions of it were call Bezilla, because it could not be called Firefox with the needed code operations made too it to run fast on BeOS. Sea Monkey was another one after the company closed that was ported over for BeOS.

Haiku should be able run run all these easily with minor changes BUT they are developing a NEW browser as well for it using Webkit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit

They worked on it and some other things using Google's summer of code students

http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/leavengood/2009-07-17/haiku_webkit_port_patches_are_now_being_committed_ webkit_repository

https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-unassigned/2009-August/128338.html

To take care of the lack of flash they are using VLC to play them and when HTML5 comes out videos will play supposedly without flash needed.

Haiku should be fairly well set on browsers shortly I think.

pwnst*r
September 19th, 2009, 12:22 PM
What do reviewers say about Haiku below??


http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/09/hands-on-with-haiku-back-to-the-future-of-beos.ars

http://www.osnews.com/story/22156/In_the_Round_Haiku_Alpha_Released

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43975/140/

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/09/haiku_os_beta_1.html;jsessionid=2NV4NMMPFS3BPQE1GH PCKH4ATMY32JVN

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/beos-lives-again

i would hardly call this:


Haiku, says the developers' website, is an "open source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful."

Haiku is now in alpha, but it's obvious that there's a lot of support from a number of developers. The OS, according to the Haiku web site, has a fully threaded design for use with multiprocessor CPUs, a custom kernel, a rich object oriented API and is aimed specifically at personal computing.

...a review by any stretch of the imagination.

handy
September 19th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Thanks for those very informative posts free10. :)

Starlight
September 19th, 2009, 09:09 PM
It looks interesting, but it doesn't seem to play any mp3 files. :( Does it mean that it doesn't have the codecs, or that it doesn't like my computer for some reason?

gnomeuser
September 19th, 2009, 09:28 PM
It looks interesting, but it doesn't seem to play any mp3 files. :( Does it mean that it doesn't have the codecs, or that it doesn't like my computer for some reason?

If they were to ship codecs they would be able to be sued into oblivion by amongst others the MPEG-LA. Even if they pointed you to a place to get support they might be in danger of a lawsuit for "contributory patent infingement" which is pretty much as much bad news as it sounds.

Starlight
September 19th, 2009, 09:32 PM
If they were to ship codecs they would be able to be sued into oblivion by amongst others the MPEG-LA. Even if they pointed you to a place to get support they might be in danger of a lawsuit for "contributory patent infingement" which is pretty much as much bad news as it sounds.
Thanks for the information, it seems the patent laws are really weird. I hope there will be some way to play mp3s on Haiku eventually, like it's possible on Linux.

yabbadabbadont
September 19th, 2009, 09:36 PM
I would assume it would be possible. I could play them on BeOS and Haiku is supposed to be binary compatible, so the same software should work. Check http://www.bebits.com/ to see if you can find the right software there.

SomeGuyDude
September 19th, 2009, 09:50 PM
I like how anyone who isn't buying the hype is getting slapped with the "WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUL?!?" crap.

It looks... nifty, but without some indication of how it's going to revolutionize my computing I don't see what makes it leaps and bounds ahead of what's already out there. It almost looks like a case of reinventing the wheel just 'cause.

yabbadabbadont
September 19th, 2009, 09:56 PM
I like how anyone who isn't buying the hype is getting slapped with the "WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUL?!?" crap.

WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUL?!? :twisted:


It almost looks like a case of reinventing the wheel just 'cause.

You say that like it is a bad thing... ;)

I agree about fanboyism though. (on any topic) I do hope it gets to a usable state though, as I have fond memories of BeOS and like to play with new toys. :D

SomeGuyDude
September 19th, 2009, 09:59 PM
I switched from Windows to Linux because I saw SIGNIFICANT usage differences. I hop from distro to distro because I see something huge that one offers that another doesn't. I can't really see anything in Haiku at this early phase to warrant the hype it's getting.

Sometimes I think people 'round here leap on the new thing just because it's "the new thing". Like that one kernel that everyone talks about periodically that never materializes.

Frak
September 19th, 2009, 10:16 PM
I switched from Windows to Linux because I saw SIGNIFICANT usage differences. I hop from distro to distro because I see something huge that one offers that another doesn't. I can't really see anything in Haiku at this early phase to warrant the hype it's getting.

Sometimes I think people 'round here leap on the new thing just because it's "the new thing". Like that one kernel that everyone talks about periodically that never materializes.
I like it for a few reasons.

1. I think the interface manager is better than what X can provide. The icons use a special vector format to facilitate embedding into the file's inode. This way, the current WM doesn't need to fetch another image from the drive to show the icon for a certain "thing". It can be loaded directly from the file itself, which saves immense amounts of time when you compare file sizes between the 3rd party image and the one integrated into the inode.

Besides that, Haiku can do things on a simple card with no GLX that X would need GLX for.

2. The file system in Haiku is created for large file sizes, which constitutes media. Linux doesn't really have anything that matches the file system used in Haiku.

3. The kernel was created from the ground up for Desktop use. There are no unnecessary bits that would make your computer great for being a server, since you won't use them anyway. The system was optimized for games, multimedia, and everyday use. It was NOT created for server or thin-client use.

ElSlunko
September 19th, 2009, 10:34 PM
I liked it. Besides performance I really really liked the file system.

gnomeuser
September 19th, 2009, 10:36 PM
Thanks for the information, it seems the patent laws are really weird. I hope there will be some way to play mp3s on Haiku eventually, like it's possible on Linux.

When the patents on the mp3 technology runs out then you will be free to use it whereever you please. The last patent expires in 2017 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3#Licensing_and_patent_issues) in the US according to our friend Wikipedia. Till then you have to either:

a) have a license
b) live in a country that does not acknowledge software patents

For both cases you must realise that even supplying you with the information on how to get the unlicensed open source implementations may legally endanger a company.

There are legally licensed options such as the Fluendo codec pack, which are available at a cost to cover the support and the MPEG-LA licensing fees. These we are free to refer people to and I whole heartedly recommend the fluendo pack for people who must have this functionality but a legally prevented from using the open source implementations.

If you feel the situation surrounding patents and it's influence on you is not acceptable, consider using your power a voter to let your politicians know how you feel on this subject.

moster
September 19th, 2009, 10:48 PM
It looks... nifty, but without some indication of how it's going to revolutionize my computing I don't see what makes it leaps and bounds ahead of what's already out there. It almost looks like a case of reinventing the wheel just 'cause.

Hey, nobody is forcing you. open source is one and another. If linux is perfect for you, there is absolutely no need for change. For me.. well, lets just say that I had one kernel upgrade mockup too much :D

Starlight
September 19th, 2009, 10:56 PM
When the patents on the mp3 technology runs out then you will be free to use it whereever you please. The last patent expires in 2017 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3#Licensing_and_patent_issues) in the US according to our friend Wikipedia. Till then you have to either:

a) have a license
b) live in a country that does not acknowledge software patents

For both cases you must realise that even supplying you with the information on how to get the unlicensed open source implementations may legally endanger a company.

There are legally licensed options such as the Fluendo codec pack, which are available at a cost to cover the support and the MPEG-LA licensing fees. These we are free to refer people to and I whole heartedly recommend the fluendo pack for people who must have this functionality but a legally prevented from using the open source implementations.

If you feel the situation surrounding patents and it's influence on you is not acceptable, consider using your power a voter to let your politicians know how you feel on this subject.

Fortunately, there are no software patents in my country, I think. :) But that does sound like a difficult situation. Hmmmm... I'm sure Haiku has developers in different countries, including those without software patents. So maybe they could host the open source codecs on a server in such a country, and make it available as an optional add-on that doesn't get installed automatically?

gnomeuser
September 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM
Fortunately, there are no software patents in my country, I think. :) But that does sound like a difficult situation. Hmmmm... I'm sure Haiku has developers in different countries, including those without software patents. So maybe they could host the open source codecs on a server in such a country, and make it available as an optional add-on that doesn't get installed automatically?

While this is now going somewhat offtopic.

The situation you have to consider is: Company foo is incorporated in country A with software patents, they then put patent infringing code on a server in country B which does not have software patents.

Company foo now can get sued in country A for contributory patent infringement, 3 very expensive words for which they have no defence.

What Canonical does specifically is being incorporated in the Ilse of Man where there are no such thing as software patents. This doesn't eliminate the threat entirely according to my sources but I suspect that it will hold up in at least a few courts making it a safeish option.

And back on topic:

This all goes back to the importance of letting your opinion be heard and supporting open standards with patent grants. Your machine might not play MP3 files but it will play Ogg Vorbis files.

Progress can be made in several ways, e.g. let your opinion be heard in a polite and respectful manner to your elected officials to make sure that it is a consideration for them.
When you buy hardware like a portable player support companies that support open standards (e.g. the Sansa Fuze plays Ogg Vorbis files) and let them know that was a factor in your purchase.

Little things to make a difference and without much effort. Together we might make the world safe for open source vendors.

free10
September 20th, 2009, 12:42 AM
There are some things left out of the alpha release for legal reasons including certain fonts. Yes, they have them and they may be in some of the earlier "builds" for "testing" but just a guess. If they are you might strip them out and put them is alpha and have them work. There is also something call BeShare at bebits and if it works with alpha you might see if codecs show up there for download. It is also a cool place to find some BeOS software not generally available elsewhere now too. Remember this was the "media OS" so they have codecs also on youtube some of the earlier Haiku builds were playing movies and sounds and those require codecs.

In fact BeOS had something called TuneTracker for radio broadcasts.

http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/27-tune_tracker/

Font rendering in this release is not optimal. Due to the uncertain situation about patents, the official release has disabled code, which is known to be patented. This sadly includes hinting code used by FreeType that would provide better looking font rendering if enabled. Once the situation is better understood and a decision has been made these technologies might get re-enabled for official releases...The hda driver for HD Audio devices is known to fail with at least some VIA and nVidia devices. Some newer codecs are also not yet supported...Haiku does not yet have support for wireless networking.



Of course it might be an audio diver problem don't know.

keiichidono
September 20th, 2009, 09:26 AM
What makes BeOS so special today?
http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/what_makes_beos_so_special_today

Is it possible to reverse engineer BeOS to add into Haiku?
http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/it_possible_reverse_engineer_beos_add_haiku

moster
September 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM
It looks interesting, but it doesn't seem to play any mp3 files. :( Does it mean that it doesn't have the codecs, or that it doesn't like my computer for some reason?
http://i39.tinypic.com/16k3pzb.gif


This can be said only by windows user.

Starlight
September 20th, 2009, 05:16 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/16k3pzb.gif


This can be said only by windows user.

I suggest you replace your telepathy ring with a new one (http://cgi.ebay.com/UNICORN-POWERS-OF-TELEPORTATION-TELEPATHY-HAUNTED-RING_W0QQitemZ170382937436QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item27ab9d4d5c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14), because yours seems to be malfunctioning, your mind reading skills are rather unimpressive :P I use Windows sometimes to play games, but for the last few years I've been using different Linux distributions, mostly Ubuntu.

moster
September 20th, 2009, 07:19 PM
I suggest you replace your telepathy ring with a new one (http://cgi.ebay.com/UNICORN-POWERS-OF-TELEPORTATION-TELEPATHY-HAUNTED-RING_W0QQitemZ170382937436QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item27ab9d4d5c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14), because yours seems to be malfunctioning, your mind reading skills are rather unimpressive :P I use Windows sometimes to play games, but for the last few years I've been using different Linux distributions, mostly Ubuntu.

Why? It obviously working perfectly :D Ok, ok, I believe you. And I do not wish to spam this thread because I like it.

PatrickMoore
September 20th, 2009, 10:34 PM
Go here to explore the Haiku site, it is a really nice place to be?

http://haiku-os.org/

Having looked at the website, it does look nice. But being someone who is constantly trying to meld efficiency and aesthetic beauty will the product be able to keep up with distributions of linux that are both blisteringly fast as well as beautifully elegant due to the benefit of being on a consistant release cycle? i mean e17 is on track to being stable which means distributions like opengeu which is great should be improved. not to mention gnome 3 is in development or at least is being brainstormed. will they make haiku as innovative and attractive?

CJ Master
September 20th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Having looked at the website, it does look nice. But being someone who is constantly trying to meld efficiency and aesthetic beauty will the product be able to keep up with distributions of linux that are both blisteringly fast as well as beautifully elegant due to the benefit of being on a consistant release cycle? i mean e17 is on track to being stable which means distributions like opengeu which is great should be improved. not to mention gnome 3 is in development or at least is being brainstormed. will they make haiku as innovative and attractive?

KDE is really the only distro where the eye candy is amazing but not sickening. Haiku is an OS where the elegence comes from the simplicity.

handy
September 20th, 2009, 11:04 PM
It really is too early to be able to make informed judgments regarding how Haiku will be at final first release.

As far as speed is concerned:

From my own experience thus far, & being one who runs a fairly minimalist install of Arch/Openbox, on 64bit boxes, Haiku is extraordinarily fast in comparison to my very fast Arch boxes; at booting/shutting down & opening app's.

It certainly will be interesting to watch the Haiku development unfold...

yabbadabbadont
September 20th, 2009, 11:11 PM
If only my 250GB SATA drive hadn't decided to eat itself this past week... I had a nice homey partition all picked out for testing Haiku. :(

moster
September 20th, 2009, 11:36 PM
If only my 250GB SATA drive hadn't decided to eat itself this past week... I had a nice homey partition all picked out for testing Haiku. :(

Alpha stage OS on a main machine. If any comfort, you should be given posthumous a medal for courage. You went down for for the science. Shots, flag... rest in peace.

kelean
September 21st, 2009, 02:31 AM
I tried it but it would not boot. I get a few dots at the top of the screen. Then the cd drive runs, the monitor goes to sleep, and then comes back on and does nothing.

I am really looking forward to giving the a look. It sounds very cool.

My machine is a dell opti-plex p-4 3.0. I will keep looking for new releases for haiku.

free10
September 21st, 2009, 03:05 AM
I tried it but it would not boot. I get a few dots at the top of the screen. Then the cd drive runs, the monitor goes to sleep, and then comes back on and does nothing.

I am really looking forward to giving the a look. It sounds very cool.

My machine is a dell opti-plex p-4 3.0. I will keep looking for new releases for haiku.

The optiplex series gave even BeOS fits sometimes but also normally worked and Haiku seems to run on some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSMT8cM20m0

You could try the VMware version but you are probably better off just waiting until it is more developed.

billdotson
September 21st, 2009, 05:31 AM
So this alpha 1 isn't even 64 bit? Is this supposed to turn into a "competitor" to Linux and/or a competitor to Windows or OS X (obviously not alpha 1 release though)? I had the vmware image from a few years ago and there really wasn't much of anything to do on it. I don't know anything about it now.

free10
September 21st, 2009, 07:15 AM
So this alpha 1 isn't even 64 bit? Is this supposed to turn into a "competitor" to Linux and/or a competitor to Windows or OS X (obviously not alpha 1 release though)? I had the vmware image from a few years ago and there really wasn't much of anything to do on it. I don't know anything about it now.

Parts of it should still be 64 bits just as BeOS was partially 64 bits but only 32 bits at the kernel. The latest snow leopard boots in only 32 bits too and is not true 64 bit. Now with all that said full 64 bits is on the menu for haiku, but not right now as there are bigger fish to fry/work on and build up and polish.

Plus as they said in the past the speed is so high now with Haiku that a little added 64 bits will add little to its already awesome speed. It will get faster and the more CPUs the faster it gets.

yabbadabbadont
September 21st, 2009, 07:51 AM
.... that a little added 64 bits will add little to its already awesome speed. ....

And will add nothing for those of us with 32-bit processors... :D

free10
September 21st, 2009, 08:47 AM
For the first time I just tried the CD ISO on my computer. It is a home made GA ep35 DS3P Gigabyte board with a Q6600 duo Quad Intel CPU and a Nvidia 7300GT graphics card 4 gigs of DDR2 ram, and everything seemed to work except for a lack of network connection. Maybe it was my Ethernet chip or the wired DSL modem but no worky. The DHCP information looked about right in the fields for networking but didn't check closely.

I did get a few crashes but thats expected and I could see my Ubuntu drive and the files on it and could access them which was surprising in a way.

With BeOS it could not read a drive unless the partitions were number in order on the drive but looks like they fix this and I am real happy with this.

I opened up Pulse which is a real time graphic app of CPU speed and in my case showing 4 of them and they were loafing just watching a few movies at once while playing an MP3.

The Live CD mode is way slow but I know mounted it would be rocket fast. I am not sure it detected my video card correctly or was in Vesa mode but it still looked decent and usable though a little fuzzy to me. I didn't even check the resolution or a number of other things since it was just a live CD.

I was surprised really it booted on mine and gulped when I saw the boot icons show up on the screen and lit up one after the other. I made it short and fast test to take it easy on my DVD recorder spinning away, and just checked a few things. I was amazed it worked that well.

Mornedhel
September 21st, 2009, 10:32 AM
Maybe it was my Ethernet chip or the wired DSL modem but no worky. The DHCP information looked about right in the fields for networking but didn't check closely.

I was surprised by this at first too, but after going into the network preferences and forcing it to use Ethernet, it worked fine. A glitch, I guess.


I am not sure it detected my video card correctly or was in Vesa mode but it still looked decent and usable though a little fuzzy to me. I didn't even check the resolution or a number of other things since it was just a live CD.

IIRC it boots in 1024x768 by default. I switched it to 1280x800, which is the best my laptop's screen can do, and it looked very crispy.

It looks promising. I'll be sure to check it again when the application ecosystem is more developed and more bugs are ironed out.

free10
September 21st, 2009, 09:42 PM
I was surprised by this at first too, but after going into the network preferences and forcing it to use Ethernet, it worked fine. A glitch, I guess.



IIRC it boots in 1024x768 by default. I switched it to 1280x800, which is the best my laptop's screen can do, and it looked very crispy.

It looks promising. I'll be sure to check it again when the application ecosystem is more developed and more bugs are ironed out.

I will mount it if I can get my DSL running with it, but not for my main system at all right now. Like you said it needs more work to use it a lot more but it is not designed to be the main one right now.

Turning PnP off in Bios, and doing a few tricks on boot (hit space bar as Haiku starts to boot for more options too) may make it more stable too. I need to investigate more on what it can do right now. My basic needs are very meager to have it as my main OS because of its simplicity and extreme speed. I need flash that works and VLC might do the trick. I want email with thunderbird and need it to recognize my Nikon D70 or a USB card reader and I need yahoo msn Google chat, like Pidgin all in one. BeOS use to have this.

These are my every day things, plus movies or music and some graphics work thrown in. The things I seldom do I also need that Ubuntu does well I can just reboot into Ubuntu. I like Ubuntu but it is not near as fast. I think Haiku and Ubuntu are going to make a great dynamic duo especially as SSD drives come down more in price making Ubuntu really fly. I also like have two systems in my machine for a broader choice of graphics software I can use on the same picture creating layers of effects.

SomeGuyDude
September 21st, 2009, 10:48 PM
I like it for a few reasons.

1. I think the interface manager is better than what X can provide. The icons use a special vector format to facilitate embedding into the file's inode. This way, the current WM doesn't need to fetch another image from the drive to show the icon for a certain "thing". It can be loaded directly from the file itself, which saves immense amounts of time when you compare file sizes between the 3rd party image and the one integrated into the inode.

Besides that, Haiku can do things on a simple card with no GLX that X would need GLX for.

2. The file system in Haiku is created for large file sizes, which constitutes media. Linux doesn't really have anything that matches the file system used in Haiku.

3. The kernel was created from the ground up for Desktop use. There are no unnecessary bits that would make your computer great for being a server, since you won't use them anyway. The system was optimized for games, multimedia, and everyday use. It was NOT created for server or thin-client use.

That's all great, but it doesn't constitute a significant change from an end-user perspective. I mean, I have a computer built in 2008, I'm not often moving around multi-gig files. It's great that it's built for everyday use, but without some massive overhauls to the way the user INTERACTS with the OS, I have no reason to switch.

It's like if I told you to get a new car, because this new car has slightly better suspension and you can't hear it switch gears as much. Okay, great, that IS slightly better, but it's far from revolutionary.

billdotson
September 21st, 2009, 11:25 PM
So does this Haiku OS have a chance of competing with Windows or OS X? What about Linux? If it is as great as they say it is I would love to see it get popular.

On a side note I heard OS/2 was an amazing operating system and still is. Can anyone confirm this? How good would OS/2 be if IBM open-sourced it (I know they haven't yet and sounds like they won't any time soon due to some Microsoft thing I think.. that or maybe they are making a comeback.. :p )?

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 12:19 AM
Haiku needs wireless card support, a package manager and repositories to be in contention with Linux and Windows.

Its promising as an implementation of BEOS... but its not there yet.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 12:54 AM
That's all great, but it doesn't constitute a significant change from an end-user perspective.

110% Absolutely Wrong. Big files is not mutli-gig files. Big files are those that span tens or hundreds of megabytes, not gigabytes. Everything else also constitutes faster speeds on an end user system. One example of this is being able to watch 7 full-length movies at once, with no lag, on a 9-year-old Dell with a 1.4GHz Pentium 4. No acceleration. That implies that this system can do anything, easily, without a need for expensive parts.

To an end user perspective, this drives costs down for computers. It is VERY noticeable.

Regenweald
September 22nd, 2009, 01:59 AM
As for the comparison between Haiku 32bit and Linux 64bit, i'd say, for a desktop system nowdays 64bit is near useless. It's nice to install and i DO use it but that is simply because I have a 64bit capable proc. So why not. After all is said and done, it boils back down to x86 which chokes the power of all intel and AMD processors anyway. Enter Haiku 32bit with an UNDERLYING ARCHITECTURE capable of true multithreading and parallel processing running circles around desktop linux possibly. So I'd take 32bit multithreading over 64bit one-at-a-time anyday. 64bit capable processing and 64bit processing seem different to me.

free10
September 22nd, 2009, 02:51 AM
So does this Haiku OS have a chance of competing with Windows or OS X? What about Linux? If it is as great as they say it is I would love to see it get popular.

On a side note I heard OS/2 was an amazing operating system and still is. Can anyone confirm this? How good would OS/2 be if IBM open-sourced it (I know they haven't yet and sounds like they won't any time soon due to some Microsoft thing I think.. that or maybe they are making a comeback.. :p )?

Competing in what way or ways???

Fastest boot and shutdown??
Fastest time to load and install onto a new drive??
The fastest and easiest to learn for the first time??
The most stable with the least problems??
The widest hardware ability to operate fast over the most years and still stays fast??
The highest customer satisfaction??
The most users??
The most apps or useless apps??
The cheapest??
The most ability to astound people??
The easiest portability from one computer to the next??
The most ways it can be hacked and is??
The most viruses and spyware infestations??
The lowest cost of ownership and operation??

I am not worried about Haiku getting very popular because it does not need that many cooks for my purposes, but it has its very winning ways as people just glimpsed with the first alpha one release.

How to sell Haiku, just turn it on or just pull the plug or both lol Open 5 songs and 5 movies at once LOL Shut down and reboot all in seconds. Better yet boot off a memory stick on THEIR hardware and do this LOL
Keep a VMware type image on their too if they run one of those.

Oh this is not the 90s LOL In the government's case against Microsoft the government estimated BeOS had only 750,000 users so was too small to be real competition to Microsoft, but Microsoft had drivers, software, and distribution channels basically blocked to BeOS.

The scene in drivers and software and distribution is way different today and because it is open source their is nothing Microsoft can do to stop Haiku. It is almost a wide open field this time and they will get a lot more users than 750,000 users fairly quick I think before even Beta hits. I am reading where former BeOS developers after seeing alpha are heading back that way with their projects. It has only been a week and the word just seems to keep spreading.

I have Ubuntu so Haiku does not need the be number one or even number 10 to make me very very happy with it and in fact just a few things more to be good to go for me.:guitar:

free10
September 22nd, 2009, 03:17 AM
Haiku needs wireless card support, a package manager and repositories to be in contention with Linux and Windows.

Its promising as an implementation of BEOS... but its not there yet.

$2,000 bounty currently on Wifi. They have Bebits for a repository for Haiku and BeOS and you are right they need a package manager again but maybe more needed later. They need a good board like this one and the greenboard still seems dead they had years ago. We used usenet for years but few seem to use usenet now. They are going to need stories on all the neat features and tricks hidden from view in the system. For example you are watching a movie home made or otherwise and you can drag a copy of that scene or frame out of the movie on to the desktop and save it. Sound recorder has some nifty tricks too and all real simple.

Oh well they have come so far with it all already I am not worried and it is one hot little system and its going to get a lot hotter..

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 03:31 AM
Check out the PC/OS thread here. In many ways, it a tribute to BEOS. But it is NOT a clone of BEOS or Haiku. It like them in some ways and different in others. Yes, it is Ubuntu-derived.

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 04:08 AM
What cool is you can test out Haiku with a German inspired BEOS Ubuntu spinoff:

ZevenOS Haiku-DD Installer:

http://www.zevenos.com/about/haiku-dd-installer

Skripka
September 22nd, 2009, 04:18 AM
What cool is you can test out Haiku with a German inspired BEOS Ubuntu spinoff:

ZevenOS Haiku-DD Installer:

http://www.zevenos.com/about/haiku-dd-installer

It does not matter HOW MUCH you theme Ubuntu, it is NOT Haiku OS.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 04:35 AM
It does not matter HOW MUCH you theme Ubuntu, it is NOT Haiku OS.
Nuts, beat me to it.

DeadSuperHero
September 22nd, 2009, 04:36 AM
Check out the PC/OS thread here. In many ways, it a tribute to BEOS. But it is NOT a clone of BEOS or Haiku. It like them in some ways and different in others. Yes, it is Ubuntu-derived.

I find those ways to be incredibly few. Oh, it looks like it kind of. But, for the most part it's a GARBAGE theme job. It has all the bloat of a big monolithic kernel that's been forked hundreds of times and re-merged; such is what you get with a research kernel.

BeOS was nothing of that sort, and actually focused on unified APIs to make things easier for both programmers and the end users. Haiku is a continuation of that.

It's like saying that all I want is a nice shiny spoon, and all you can come up with is a FORK.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 04:53 AM
It's like saying that all I want is a nice shiny spoon, and all you can come up with is a FORK.

And then wrap it in duct tape to make it look and act like a spoon. It may work like a spoon, and it may look like a spoon (sorta) but it ain't a spoon.

CJ Master
September 22nd, 2009, 04:53 AM
And then wrap it in duct tape to make it look and act like a spoon. It may work like a spoon, and it may look like a spoon (sorta) but it ain't a spoon.

Oh you spoony bard.

SomeGuyDude
September 22nd, 2009, 05:05 AM
110% Absolutely Wrong. Big files is not mutli-gig files. Big files are those that span tens or hundreds of megabytes, not gigabytes. Everything else also constitutes faster speeds on an end user system. One example of this is being able to watch 7 full-length movies at once, with no lag, on a 9-year-old Dell with a 1.4GHz Pentium 4. No acceleration. That implies that this system can do anything, easily, without a need for expensive parts.

To an end user perspective, this drives costs down for computers. It is VERY noticeable.

1) I don't have a 9-year-old computer.

2) I will never, ever, watch 7 movies at once.

Again, try and explain how all of these advancements will actually affect my usage. It's like giving me a car that can drive 250mph. Yeah sure that's great, but I'll never be going over 85 so who gives a crap?

Again, ALL this thing seems to do is enable me to what I already do slightly faster. Hooray. The difference between Linux and Windows is one of customization, ease of updating, security, less hard drive space taken up (which means more space for my files), simplicity, options, etc. Speed is, frankly, such a minor point in the scheme of things. If HaikuOS actually offers a significant difference in HOW I use my machine, my response is a resounding meh.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 05:10 AM
I wonder how will they deal with costs. Linux is mostly sever os so that is main money maker but haiku...

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 05:11 AM
Which is not the original. No one is claiming what they are developing is or can be what BEOS was. Its possible to incorporate its elements into Linux but a full-fledged BEOS replacement desktop appears to be years away.

hanzomon4
September 22nd, 2009, 05:23 AM
Which is not the original. No one is claiming what they are developing is or can be what BEOS was. Its possible to incorporate its elements into Linux but a full-fledged BEOS replacement desktop appears to be years away.

Only theme elements.. Beos had a lot of things that all the major OSes are still trying to get right. The filesystem, Multi-threaded from the ground up. I'm sure there was more. pc/os is as close to BEos as any linux, the theme is not what matters the most in regards to BE although it is cool.

donniezazen
September 22nd, 2009, 05:26 AM
Why do we need 100s of Linux Distro? If all of the developers can work on only one distro it would end up the best one instead of several crappy underdeveloped ones.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 05:28 AM
1) I don't have a 9-year-old computer.

2) I will never, ever, watch 7 movies at once.

Again, try and explain how all of these advancements will actually affect my usage. It's like giving me a car that can drive 250mph. Yeah sure that's great, but I'll never be going over 85 so who gives a crap?

Again, ALL this thing seems to do is enable me to what I already do slightly faster. Hooray. The difference between Linux and Windows is one of customization, ease of updating, security, less hard drive space taken up (which means more space for my files), simplicity, options, etc. Speed is, frankly, such a minor point in the scheme of things. If HaikuOS actually offers a significant difference in HOW I use my machine, my response is a resounding meh.
I told you why it was great, and you still ignored it and paraphrased what you wanted.


IG IG IG IG IG, IGNORED! A.K.A. Not worthy of my attention.

Skripka
September 22nd, 2009, 05:30 AM
Why do we need 100s of Linux Distro? If all of the developers can work on only one distro it would end up the best one instead of several crappy underdeveloped ones.

Those 100s of Linux distros developed because there is NO perfect one-size-fits-all environment.

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 05:32 AM
Exactly. If Haiku succeeds, I suspect it won't be the only BEOS on the market. In Linux the principle is free choice and no one distro suits every one. Windows and Mac OSX users who come to Linux are bewildered at the sheer variety available.

free10
September 22nd, 2009, 05:33 AM
What cool is you can test out Haiku with a German inspired BEOS Ubuntu spinoff:

ZevenOS Haiku-DD Installer:

http://www.zevenos.com/about/haiku-dd-installer


Well not needed now and I notice they now point people to the new alpha release with their congratulations.

http://www.zevenos.com/allgemein/congratulations-haiku.html

This does bring up another point and that is the BeOS and now Haiku fans and developers are not just local but worldwide. Germany has many and so does Japan and Russia and they are found in Australia as well. It is just so over the top on passion for it some build Linux shrines to it. That is so wrong on so many levels:lolflag:

Thanks for pointing that out to us.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 05:37 AM
Those 100s of Linux distros developed because there is NO perfect one-size-fits-all environment.

2 windows = 90% marketshare
100+ linux = 1-3% marketshare

So your statement stands only in theory but fail in practice.

free10
September 22nd, 2009, 05:53 AM
I wonder how will they deal with costs. Linux is mostly sever os so that is main money maker but haiku...

I think most of them have jobs.

CJ Master
September 22nd, 2009, 05:58 AM
Exactly. If Haiku succeeds, I suspect it won't be the only BEOS on the market. In Linux the principle is free choice and no one distro suits every one. Windows and Mac OSX users who come to Linux are bewildered at the sheer variety available.

You do realize Haiku is not Linux, correct?

Chronon
September 22nd, 2009, 06:57 AM
2 windows = 90% marketshare
100+ linux = 1-3% marketshare

So your statement stands only in theory but fail in practice.

This seems like a non-sequitur -- or else I just really failed to see the connection to the post that you quoted.

jrusso2
September 22nd, 2009, 07:51 AM
As a former user of the original BEoS, I downloaded Haiku and loaded it into Vitualbox.

My impressions are this reminds me much more of Linux then the original BEoS.

It seems to have lost the smoothness of the orignial. It has a bash command prompt and all the programs are Linux rehashed.

It does have the BEoS theme though. I hope it becomes more like the original that I really liked.

gnomeuser
September 22nd, 2009, 08:38 AM
As a former user of the original BEoS, I downloaded Haiku and loaded it into Vitualbox.

My impressions are this reminds me much more of Linux then the original BEoS.

It seems to have lost the smoothness of the orignial. It has a bash command prompt and all the programs are Linux rehashed.

It does have the BEoS theme though. I hope it becomes more like the original that I really liked.

The NewOS kernel is developed originally by a former Be employee, I think if you give it time they will manage to tune it to be as smooth and responsive as the old Be was.

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 08:52 AM
The irony is BEOS today might have been the Apple OS if hadn't been for the then BEOS CEO's decision to squeeze Apple more than it wanted to pay. It was one of the most stupid business decisions ever made and one that contributed to the company's slide into oblivion. It was more efficient than the NEXTStep that later become the core of OS X.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 09:42 AM
This seems like a non-sequitur -- or else I just really failed to see the connection to the post that you quoted.

There is NO perfect one-size-fits-all environment.

Quality cannot be replaced with quantity. It would be no different if there were 100 000 distros out there.

free10
September 22nd, 2009, 12:14 PM
The irony is BEOS today might have been the Apple OS if hadn't been for the then BEOS CEO's decision to squeeze Apple more than it wanted to pay. It was one of the most stupid business decisions ever made and one that contributed to the company's slide into oblivion. It was more efficient than the NEXTStep that later become the core of OS X.
That is Steve Jobs story and version of events and not the one Gassee tells and the Steve Jobs version never made a bit of sense no more than going with and "buying NeXt" instead of BeOS. The Mac faithful fully expected BeOS to be their new OS and not NeXt. In Jobs Version Apple was willing to pay only 121 million for BeOS which actually ran on Apple's hardware. Gassee said he was never offered anything from Apples people and would have gladly taken 121 million for it at the time. In Jobs version Apple which was unwilling to pay more than 121 million then buys NeXt, which won't even run on the hardware for 450 million. The claim Gassee tried to pressure Apple to pay 200 million is rather ludicrous when Jobs got more than twice that amount for NeXt. Of course Jobs then claims they got him too in the bargain for all eternity for only a dollar a year. This is one more lie because Jobs has gotten huge amounts of shares every year since he got back and NOT just a dollar a year as he claimed. Not only this but Jobs had been FIRED from Apple because he was destroying the company.

After many years and 10s of millions more of Apples money you finally see OSX which really got people questioning why and how Jobs and NeXt instead of BeOS.

Scott Hacker wrote in 2001..
Do I think Apple should have bought Be when they had the chance? Yes and no. On one hand, Apple would have gotten a fantastic architecture on which they could build their modern OS. And OS X would have a state-of-the-art filesystem and superior multithreading / multitasking today. OS X might have gotten out the door sooner, and it would be a faster, more efficient operating system...Rather, I mean that Be had achieved "the grace of the Mac, the power of Unix" nearly a decade before Apple got OS X out the door, and that many of the complaints I list above would not be issues for OS X today...end of quote

Of course Jobs then banned BeOS from all Macs and Mac clones by the G3 which kept the Mac faithful from comparing BeOS to OSX directly on the same machines and a lot of them were not happy.

But the Cult of Mac is putting out the word on Haiku and a reminder for those that don't remember BeOS.
http://www.cultofmac.com/beos-back-from-the-dead-as-haiku-project/16784

Let the games begin...again

Skripka
September 22nd, 2009, 01:22 PM
2 windows = 90% marketshare
100+ linux = 1-3% marketshare

So your statement stands only in theory but fail in practice.


Nope.

Why can you go to the market and find 70 different flavors of Ragu?

Why are there so many different kinds of cars on the road?

For the same reasons that there are lots of linux diustros. There IS NO one perfect spaghetti sauce that everyone loves, there is no ONE perfect car that meets everyone's needs or wants, and there is NO one perfect linux distro that does everything for everyone as they like it.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 01:32 PM
As a former user of the original BEoS, I downloaded Haiku and loaded it into Vitualbox.

My impressions are this reminds me much more of Linux then the original BEoS.

It seems to have lost the smoothness of the orignial. It has a bash command prompt and all the programs are Linux rehashed.

I am former Beos user too :) Most important thing is under the hood, and it is totally different. It has hybrid kernel instead monolitic linux kernel. In my virtualbox this thing fly and this alpha is only debug-on compiled which is somewhat slower.

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 07:23 PM
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. You can take the monolithic Linux kernel, improve on it and add all the features that made BEOS so super-friendly to users. A hybrid kernel is desirable but not really necessary in UNIX which is proven, fast and stable. That sums up where HAIKU is today.

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 08:17 PM
There is no perfect distro out there. With Windows and OSX, you get what is installed with the computer. In Linux, there is a plethora of choices. You get three package managers: Debian, RPM and Coronary.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 08:33 PM
Nope.

Why can you go to the market and find 70 different flavors of Ragu?

Why are there so many different kinds of cars on the road?

For the same reasons that there are lots of linux diustros. There IS NO one perfect spaghetti sauce that everyone loves, there is no ONE perfect car that meets everyone's needs or wants, and there is NO one perfect linux distro that does everything for everyone as they like it.

Lets talk about drinks, it is simpler then Ragu.

Well, I think you are comparing 70 flavors of Vodka to 1 flavor of Wiskey. Problem is, not many people love Vodka not matter how much flavors you get, it is always Vodka.

You are trying to say that linux is every drink possible, but I just do not agree with you :)

Chronon
September 22nd, 2009, 08:35 PM
There is NO perfect one-size-fits-all environment.

Quality cannot be replaced with quantity. It would be no different if there were 100 000 distros out there.

"There is no perfect one-size-fits-all environment" does explain the plethora of Linux distributions out there. Someone feels like a particular combination of software would be preferable to existing prepackaged systems and decides to put it together. The distribution serves to scratch their itch.

I don't really see why you mentioned market share in connection to this. What does market share have to do with people's ability or desire to build a new Linux-based OS? If the market share were different, how would this change someone's likelihood to roll their own distro?

haemulon
September 22nd, 2009, 08:59 PM
I wish them much success and I hope development of Haiku OS speeds up.

Linux is in trouble. Hundreds of distros all more or less incompatible with each other.

Software has to be tailored to each distro, and worse yet, to specific versions of each distro.

I'm starting to think Linux should really stick to being a server OS mostly for business computing.

Linux on the desktop just doesn't seem to be coming together.

The BSD's don't seem to care much about the desktop or whether anyone at all uses their fine OS.

Mac OS is nice but thinks it's too special and has even less users than Linux.

Haiku OS could be a big deal. I hope so.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 09:18 PM
yes, you sum it good. I do not wish to get into this subject because every once in awhile end up in topic is number of distros weakness or strength of linux.
I am comfortable in linux desktop but it can be better. I WANT better :D

Skripka
September 22nd, 2009, 09:24 PM
hundreds of distros all more or less incompatible with each other.

Software has to be tailored to each distro, and worse yet, to specific versions of each distro.


o rly?

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 09:32 PM
Not really. All Ubuntu distro official or not are compatible and the same is true for Fedora, Mandriva, SUSE and Slackware based distributions. There are differences in appearance and package management but underneath the skin all of them use the Linux kernel.

Starlight
September 22nd, 2009, 09:35 PM
o rly?

ya rly :P

I've noticed many times that when there's some software that's available both for Windows and Linux, when a new version is released, there's a nice Windows .exe installer available instantly on the same day, but packages for different Linux distributions appear later. Some distributions get their packages first, other need to wait more... and which distribution gets the packages first is different for different software. For example, there's a polish IM program called Kadu that's primarily aimed for Linux, but the Ubuntu package for the newest version was available some time after it was released, while a Windows installer was available instantly.

Chronon
September 22nd, 2009, 09:39 PM
Lets talk about drinks, it is simpler then Ragu.

Well, I think you are comparing 70 flavors of Vodka to 1 flavor of Wiskey. Problem is, not many people love Vodka not matter how much flavors you get, it is always Vodka.

You are trying to say that linux is every drink possible, but I just do not agree with you :)
Still kind of a poor analogy, I think, but here goes:

The flavored vodkas exist because vodka drinkers like to infuse it with different flavors and they have the freedom to do so.

The 70 flavors of vodka suit the tastes of vodka drinkers. Anybody who decides they want to make some mixed drinks and that the available flavored vodkas are wanting is free to infuse some with their own flavors. Anyone is free to get the recipe for making vodka and change it to suit their needs (and distill as much as they want at home).

The argument is not saying that Linux is every drink. It's saying that, of the people who like to mix vodka, there is no perfect flavor of vodka that suits everyone. Vodka drinkers have a freedom that whiskey drinkers don't, in this analogy. This freedom is expressed in different flavors.

Nobody is claiming that flavored vodka is a direct substitute for whiskey. We are saying that different flavors of vodka exist because different palates exist. You seem to be claiming things that nobody has said.

Edit: By the way, Haiku has an open license (MIT) and thus will allow different flavors as well. It remains to be seen whether enough people decide they like to drink this beverage to make flavored versions of it or not.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 09:47 PM
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. You can take the monolithic Linux kernel, improve on it and add all the features that made BEOS so super-friendly to users. A hybrid kernel is desirable but not really necessary in UNIX which is proven, fast and stable. That sums up where HAIKU is today.
If you want all of the optimizations possible for a Desktop system, you won't be using a Monolithic kernel. Besides that, some of the Haiku dev's don't like the GPL, and Linux would force them into the GPL.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 09:48 PM
OMG, in this thread will be collision of radical Arch users and new fresh open source forces hungry for simplicity.

I see this too many times... please, do not forget that this thread is about Haiku.

moster
September 22nd, 2009, 09:55 PM
Still kind of a poor analogy, I think, but here goes:

The flavored vodkas exist because vodka drinkers like to infuse it with different flavors and they have the freedom to do so.

The 70 flavors of vodka suit the tastes of vodka drinkers. Anybody who decides they want to make some mixed drinks and that the available flavored vodkas are wanting is free to infuse some with their own flavors. Anyone is free to get the recipe for making vodka and change it to suit their needs (and distill as much as they want at home).

The argument is not saying that Linux is every drink. It's saying that, of the people who like to mix vodka, there is no perfect flavor of vodka that suits everyone. Vodka drinkers have a freedom that whiskey drinkers don't, in this analogy. This freedom is expressed in different flavors.

Nobody is claiming that flavored vodka is a direct substitute for whiskey. We are saying that different flavors of vodka exist because different palates exist. You seem to be claiming things that nobody has said.

Edit: By the way, Haiku has an open license (MIT) and thus will allow different flavors as well. It remains to be seen whether enough people decide they like to drink this beverage to make flavored versions of it or not.

I understand perfectly what are you trying to say. And I am sorry to you see my posts like claming something that nobody said. Very sorry, I will get back to this topic when topic are back on Haiku.

Something like CroCop, I just do not have any strength left :)

Bungo Pony
September 22nd, 2009, 10:05 PM
I played with a copy of BeOS 5 a few months ago. It's a pretty nifty OS.

There are some great advantages of Haiku being 100% compatible with BeOS. Here's a pile of apps for BeOS so you can actually ENJOY your new Haiku install:

http://www.bebits.com/browse/

Once it's out of alpha, I may (eventually) run Haiku on a partition solely to do video and audio work. Linux is still kinda poopy in these areas.

Also, thinking about putting Haiku on a netbook is just making me drool, as long as they implement Atom compatibility

NormanFLinux
September 22nd, 2009, 10:15 PM
What's wrong with what is available? Besides, BEOS tried the proprietary route and failed. Its only hope is GPL and open source. There's not a chance its going to ever be commercially viable.

Frak
September 22nd, 2009, 11:00 PM
What's wrong with what is available? Besides, BEOS tried the proprietary route and failed. Its only hope is GPL and open source. There's not a chance its going to ever be commercially viable.
A lot. Prove it. Prove it. Prove it. Match those with what you said, respectively.

Skripka
September 23rd, 2009, 12:03 AM
ya rly :P

I've noticed many times that when there's some software that's available both for Windows and Linux, when a new version is released, there's a nice Windows .exe installer available instantly on the same day, but packages for different Linux distributions appear later. Some distributions get their packages first, other need to wait more... and which distribution gets the packages first is different for different software. For example, there's a polish IM program called Kadu that's primarily aimed for Linux, but the Ubuntu package for the newest version was available some time after it was released, while a Windows installer was available instantly.

That is why you make packages yourself. Why Debian et al insist on making source code installsuch a pain is beyond me.

NormanFLinux
September 23rd, 2009, 01:50 AM
Look at the fate of BEOS and Zeta. Then look at the current BEOS project - HAIKU - formerly knows as BEOSOpen. The difference between the commercial efforts and the open source one is the open source one produced an up to date operating system albeit with some flaws. Haiku is following the Linux model because it works.

NormanFLinux
September 23rd, 2009, 01:52 AM
OpenSuse has a Build Service. Porting that to Ubuntu would make the job of recompiling and spinning out new packages easier for developers.

CJ Master
September 23rd, 2009, 01:58 AM
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. You can take the monolithic Linux kernel, improve on it and add all the features that made BEOS so super-friendly to users. A hybrid kernel is desirable but not really necessary in UNIX which is proven, fast and stable. That sums up where HAIKU is today.

For gosh sake, read the thread! You'll find all your answers to everything in your post.

NormanFLinux
September 23rd, 2009, 02:01 AM
I have. The arguments over whether a hybrid kernel is better than a monolithic kernel will find people in camps on both sides. I'm admittedly Linux biased perhaps because its been good to me. That's said, I'm always open to trying something new.

handy
September 23rd, 2009, 02:14 AM
OMG, in this thread will be collision of radical Arch users and new fresh open source forces hungry for simplicity.

I'm an Arch/Openbox user who loves Haiku. :) ...

Firestem4
September 23rd, 2009, 03:25 AM
I downloaded and ran the VMware image of Haiku OS in Virtual Box...holy crap!!!! it boots to a full desktop in 4 seconds! Wow. I'm impressed.

yabbadabbadont
September 23rd, 2009, 03:35 AM
I downloaded and ran the VMware image of Haiku OS in Virtual Box...holy crap!!!! it boots to a full desktop in 4 seconds! Wow. I'm impressed.

What is more impressive is that BeOS used to do the same on my old 233MHz Pentium-II machine. (actually, I think it took 6 seconds) I'm really hoping that Haiku will release a beta sometime in the next several months.

SomeGuyDude
September 23rd, 2009, 03:51 AM
I told you why it was great, and you still ignored it and paraphrased what you wanted.


IG IG IG IG IG, IGNORED! A.K.A. Not worthy of my attention.

Nnnnnno, you gave a few examples of how it lets me do what I already do slightly better. That's great.

Tell me a DESIGN element in Haiku that's in any way revolutionary, because here's a little secret: people don't switch to Linux just for a speed boost. If Linux offered nothing over Windows beyond "You can watch ten movies at once!", no one would use it. To be honest, even if Linux was just as slow as Windows, I'd STILL use it, because of all of the other benefits and systematic improvements.

So far I've seen nothing that actually indicates a sweeping improvement over Linux, and believe me I'd love to try out a new OS.

free10
September 23rd, 2009, 09:16 AM
I think a good first week for the alpha release.

http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/nielx/2009-09-21_alpha_1_week_later

handy
September 23rd, 2009, 12:07 PM
I think a good first week for the alpha release.

http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/nielx/2009-09-21_alpha_1_week_later

:lolflag: A most enjoyable read. :)

I like their attitude.

Thanks for the post. :)

steev182
September 23rd, 2009, 01:02 PM
I don't know.

I like how they have basically recreated an OS which, in the 90s, was fast and very media-centric. But now, the whole UI just looks dated.

Will they be working on making it look less dated? The whole point of this OS being aimed squarely at Desktop users seems to be moot if it still looks this way when they release a full or even Beta version.

handy
September 23rd, 2009, 01:30 PM
I don't know.

I like how they have basically recreated an OS which, in the 90s, was fast and very media-centric. But now, the whole UI just looks dated.

Will they be working on making it look less dated? The whole point of this OS being aimed squarely at Desktop users seems to be moot if it still looks this way when they release a full or even Beta version.

imho, the least important thing about Haiku is what it looks like.

Such superficial things will end up being customizable/configurable.

The function of Haiku is the important thing, & Haiku has an incredibly strong technical foundation.

Go read up on their friendly web site?

steev182
September 23rd, 2009, 01:45 PM
I have read up on it ;), and it looks like the people who are Graphically minded are more concerned with the look of the website than the OS.

handy
September 23rd, 2009, 01:50 PM
I have read up on it ;), and it looks like the people who are Graphically minded are more concerned with the look of the website than the OS.

Read more? :)

kfitzenreiter
September 23rd, 2009, 01:51 PM
I recently downloaded Haiku and tried to install it in a vbox. Maybe I'm dumb, alright I just am dumb, but I couldn't get it to do much right away. I'll admit it was 2:30 a.m. and I was pretty eager to go to bed, but still...

Regenweald
September 23rd, 2009, 02:00 PM
I recently downloaded Haiku and tried to install it in a vbox. Maybe I'm dumb, alright I just am dumb, but I couldn't get it to do much right away. I'll admit it was 2:30 a.m. and I was pretty eager to go to bed, but still...

Rather than that, why not download the vmware image ?

kfitzenreiter
September 23rd, 2009, 02:06 PM
Is the vmware image configured to do more "out of the box," so to speak?