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chessnerd
September 9th, 2009, 06:09 PM
While I love Ubuntu and the software that it comes with, I do find that in some areas it comes with software I'll never use, in others it is lacking in my interests, and in some it doesn't offer what I want...

For example: emesene is my IM client. I remove Pidgin every time I install Ubuntu and I find this a bit annoying, especially since Pidgin has to be removed from Synaptic due to dependency issues. Also, I only use Firefox to get Opera (my default browser) since Opera isn't in the repos and then a few times when I visit a page that needs either IE or Firefox. Plus, I never use OpenOffice Draw and install KPaint for my simplistic drawing program instead. In addition, I uninstall Evolution because I prefer to just get my e-mail via browser rather than have a client.

I think that, during install, Ubuntu should offer a choice in a few common software areas like web browser, IM client, mail client, and office software and then also offer software collections for specialized interested, like a Media package that comes with Blender, recordMyDesktop, and a video editor or a Developer package with Eclipse and/or Geany.

I don't mean to be lazy. I know that Add/Remove makes it way easier to get software than in Windows, but I do think that this feature would set Ubuntu apart and make it even more user friendly. And, after all, Linux is supposed to be about choice.

So, should Ubuntu offer users a choice of software during the install?

Bodsda
September 9th, 2009, 06:17 PM
While I love Ubuntu and the software that it comes with, I do find that in some areas it comes with software I'll never use, in others it is lacking in my interests, and in some it doesn't offer what I want...

For example: emesene is my IM client. I remove Pidgin every time I install Ubuntu and I find this a bit annoying, especially since Pidgin has to be removed from Synaptic due to dependency issues. Also, I only use Firefox to get Opera (my default browser) since Opera isn't in the repos and then a few times when I visit a page that needs either IE or Firefox. Plus, I never use OpenOffice Draw and install KPaint for my simplistic drawing program instead. In addition, I uninstall Evolution because I prefer to just get my e-mail via browser rather than have a client.

I think that, during install, Ubuntu should offer a choice in a few common software areas like web browser, IM client, mail client, and office software and then also offer software collections for specialized interested, like a Media package that comes with Blender, recordMyDesktop, and a video editor or a Developer package with Eclipse and/or Geany.

I don't mean to be lazy. I know that Add/Remove makes it way easier to get software than in Windows, but I do think that this feature would set Ubuntu apart and make it even more user friendly. And, after all, Linux is supposed to be about choice.

So, should Ubuntu offer users a choice of software during the install?

Yes! basically. :)

But ubuntu is bloated with user friendly applications for the benefit of new users. Those who know of others can easily make the change. Imagaine how confused a new user will be if someone asked them to choose between alsa & pulseaudio.

drawkcab
September 9th, 2009, 06:21 PM
Isn't that what the alternate install .iso is for?

speedwell68
September 9th, 2009, 06:23 PM
Yes! basically. :)

But ubuntu is bloated with user friendly applications for the benefit of new users. Those who know of others can easily make the change. Imagaine how confused a new user will be if someone asked them to choose between alsa & pulseaudio.

I would hardly call it bloated. It offers what are basically the 'industry standard' apps out of the box. OpenOffice, Firefox and Pidgin are proper cross platform apps, for a lot of people they are the first open-source programs they use before switching to Linux.

chessnerd
September 9th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Isn't that what the alternate install .iso is for?

The alternative disk offers a non-GUI install for slower computers (I had to use it when installing Ubuntu on an old desktop). It doesn't have a LiveCD mode and the install process is all text based, but it is the same install process.

lykwydchykyn
September 9th, 2009, 06:37 PM
I'd say no.

Over the years, Ubiquity has consistently gotten shorter and simpler, and I think that's a good thing. When I first got into Linux (RedHat 9, then Debian woody), the install process was about an hour of answering questions about what to install. And God knows I had no idea how to answer most of them, so I took the defaults. Even so, it was an intimidating first impression.

Don't get me wrong; these days I prefer building up a system from a console install to get exactly what I want without any fluff. But I think it's pretty clear that Ubuntu's target users are folks who wouldn't know Pidgin from pumpernickel.

Seems to me the strategy of getting people to a functioning Linux desktop as quickly (and with as little rigmarole) as possible is doing pretty well.

Stan_1936
September 9th, 2009, 06:40 PM
While I love Ubuntu and the software that it comes with, I do find that in some areas it comes with software I'll never use, in others it is lacking in my interests, and in some it doesn't offer what I want...

For example: emesene is my IM client. I remove Pidgin every time I install Ubuntu and I find this a bit annoying, especially since Pidgin has to be removed from Synaptic due to dependency issues. Also, I only use Firefox to get Opera (my default browser) since Opera isn't in the repos and then a few times when I visit a page that needs either IE or Firefox. Plus, I never use OpenOffice Draw and install KPaint for my simplistic drawing program instead. In addition, I uninstall Evolution because I prefer to just get my e-mail via browser rather than have a client.

I think that, during install, Ubuntu should offer a choice in a few common software areas like web browser, IM client, mail client, and office software and then also offer software collections for specialized interested, like a Media package that comes with Blender, recordMyDesktop, and a video editor or a Developer package with Eclipse and/or Geany.

I don't mean to be lazy. I know that Add/Remove makes it way easier to get software than in Windows, but I do think that this feature would set Ubuntu apart and make it even more user friendly. And, after all, Linux is supposed to be about choice.

So, should Ubuntu offer users a choice of software during the install?

What you are looking for is called an Ubuntu Minimal CD installation:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD

No GUI, but you can install only the software that you want.

chessnerd
September 9th, 2009, 06:43 PM
What you are looking for is called an Ubuntu Minimal CD installation:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD

No GUI, but you can install only the software that you want.

Didn't know that existed. I'll probably use it for installing Karmic. Thanks for the link.

Tibuda
September 9th, 2009, 06:50 PM
No. Choices during the installer will confuse users. Imagine the user just burnt this new CD and then he faces the choice: What app do you want to use to chat? Pidgin, Gajim, Empathy, Emesene or Kopete? He have never used any of these apps before and have no idea what to choose.

zekopeko
September 9th, 2009, 06:54 PM
I don't mean to be lazy. I know that Add/Remove makes it way easier to get software than in Windows, but I do think that this feature would set Ubuntu apart and make it even more user friendly. And, after all, Linux is supposed to be about choice.

So, should Ubuntu offer users a choice of software during the install?

NO!

Why do you think Ubuntu became so big? That's right, sane default. Most people don't want to read a 100 page manual to know what they have to install to get a usable desktop. They want to pop the CD in, answer a few questions and let it install. Tweaking can be (and should be) done after you have a usable environment. Then you can install all of the apps you use. And as the poster above me pointed out you have the minimal cd install if you want to tweak before installing it.

I absolutely hate it, when people start "Linux is about choice" train of thought as the ultimate argument for changing something in Ubuntu. You have the choice NOT to use Ubuntu but a distro that is better for your needs.

drawkcab
September 10th, 2009, 05:08 AM
What you are looking for is called an Ubuntu Minimal CD installation:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD

No GUI, but you can install only the software that you want.

yeah, that's what i meant

murderslastcrow
September 10th, 2009, 05:52 AM
I think a CD for "Ubuntu Veterans" or "Advanced Users" might be more suitable, since most new users don't want that much choice right in their face the first time.

Then again, there are plenty of Ubuntu 'spin-offs' that use the exact same repositories and stuff that have these kinds of options. I also tend to use Reconstructor to make a customized LiveDVD after each upgrade.

But, I think when more people get into Linux (like, 50 million or more), this would be an awesome feature to include by default. Like a Next Button with an "Extra Options" button next to it before you finalize the installation information.

earthpigg
September 10th, 2009, 06:02 AM
Didn't know that existed. I'll probably use it for installing Karmic. Thanks for the link.

it is outstanding. just avoid the meta-packages. install gnome-core instead of ubuntu-desktop, for example.


I think a CD for "Ubuntu Veterans" or "Advanced Users" might be more suitable, since most new users don't want that much choice right in their face the first time.

that would be the ubuntu base install cd.

all the same hardware works OOB, you just need to pick what you want to sudo apt-get install...

biggest problem you will encounter is "i like ubuntu's default for ____! what is the package called?"

_____ can be add/remove, the networking applet, the 'hardware drivers' in system -> admin, or other things.

i have a non-complete list of some of those packages here that was made for another purpose:

http://sites.google.com/site/masonux/home/ease-of-use

jrusso2
September 10th, 2009, 07:28 AM
Ubuntu was made like this to make it easier for new users to install. However maybe the alternate CD could be made to offer some choices.