CFLs that produce better light?

[gletob]

I've replaced many of the bulb's in my house with Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs, but one that I've tried to replace is my desk lamp that I'm almost constantly using while reading and on the computer. I try the CFLs but the color of the light just gets on my nerves, it's to cold and white. Are there CFLs out there that produce light that is more like incandescent bulbs?

[Swarms]

Go to the right stores. Even experienced eyes are starting to being unable to see the difference between the two different forms of life.

[MikeTheC]

If it's all the same, I think I'll stick with blue-shift tinted incandescent lightbulbs (that is, made to be more sun-spectrum-like).

I don't believe in filling my house up with more and more sources of mercury, thank you very much. We're not suppose to somehow despoil the environment through over-consumption of power, but yet it's perfectly acceptable to cram more mercury contamination into our environment as a trade-off?

Sorry, but I don't get that.

[BuffaloX]

@MikeTheC
Most electricity is produced with coal powered plants, coal power release mercury too, I think the electricity savings of CFLs more than compensate for their tiny mercury content.

You should also have some sort of option to dispose of those bulbs safely.

@OP:
Unfortunately CFLs only have about 85% the color range of traditional bulbs.
It doesn't matter to most people in most situations, but you may want to keep your old bulbs at places where particular good lighting is required.

[woedend]

I too don't understand the CFL thing. I know it saves power, and i'm all for lower energy bills and a smaller footprint on this earth...but they have left a bad taste in my mouth. I haven't used them in probably a year or two...but once decided to give them a try. Even at similar wattages, the lighting was horrible. In the house wasn't too bad...I thought they were dimmer but thought perhaps it was a placebo of sorts. I realized that it wasn't in the garage with a solitary bulb. I put a 75 watt incandescent and it does pretty well lighting the entire area. Put a CFL bulb in and it was unbearable and hard to see anything. Then I read that you "can't" just throw them away when they burn out(and despite the claims, it only lasted about as long as any other bulb i've ever used). Maybe they've come a long way since, but I wasn't impressed.

[Exodist]

I've replaced many of the bulb's in my house with Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs, but one that I've tried to replace is my desk lamp that I'm almost constantly using while reading and on the computer. I try the CFLs but the color of the light just gets on my nerves, it's to cold and white. Are there CFLs out there that produce light that is more like incandescent bulbs?
Yea, run around walmart of home depot. They have some yellowish bulbs that will feel warmer like normal incandescent bulbs..

[ed5000]

Look for a "warm white" compact flourescent lamp if you want the closest color to an incadescent lamp. Or look for the color number of 2700k.

2700k warm white
3500k between warm white and cool white
4100k cool white
5000k daylight

There are more colors too but these are the most common ones. Ed

[Exodist]

I too don't understand the CFL thing. I know it saves power, and i'm all for lower energy bills and a smaller footprint on this earth...but they have left a bad taste in my mouth. I haven't used them in probably a year or two...but once decided to give them a try. Even at similar wattages, the lighting was horrible. In the house wasn't too bad...I thought they were dimmer but thought perhaps it was a placebo of sorts. I realized that it wasn't in the garage with a solitary bulb. I put a 75 watt incandescent and it does pretty well lighting the entire area. Put a CFL bulb in and it was unbearable and hard to see anything. Then I read that you "can't" just throw them away when they burn out(and despite the claims, it only lasted about as long as any other bulb i've ever used). Maybe they've come a long way since, but I wasn't impressed.
I run all CFLs in my house. You gota watch the wattage on the bulbs to make sure you get the ones you need for certain area like Kitchen, Bath, etc.. bright enough. Normally a 16w CFL produces a light equal to a 75w bulb.
I like then because they save me money in the long run. My AC runs full blast year round and my power bill is always around $100.00 USD. Without them it would be over 130+ each month. Hence the reason I switched.

[Exodist]

Look for a "warm white" compact flourescent lamp if you want the closest color to an incadescent lamp. Or look for the color number of 2700k.

2700k warm white
3500k between warm white and cool white
4100k cool white
5000k daylight

There are more colors too but these are the most common ones. Ed
Thats good information. TY

[MikeTheC]

You should also have some sort of option to dispose of those bulbs safely.

Well, the problem is that there is no such thing as a safe way to dispose of hazardous materials so long as they stay on this planet. Technically, flying them into space (to ostensibly hurtle them sunward) also carries with it the element of risk as the craft could experience a failure at launch or at some point in its parking orbit prior to trans-solar injection.

What I really object to is this knee-jerk reaction our society seems to have wherein we want to force a change upon ourselves and justify it by this Chicken Little "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"-esq mentality. I refuse to buy into the mentality or the paranoia it generates, and therefore amongst other things as well I refuse to buy CFL bulbs.

[BuffaloX]

I too don't understand the CFL thing. I know it saves power, and i'm all for lower energy bills and a smaller footprint on this earth...but they have left a bad taste in my mouth. I haven't used them in probably a year or two...but once decided to give them a try. Even at similar wattages, the lighting was horrible. In the house wasn't too bad...I thought they were dimmer but thought perhaps it was a placebo of sorts. I realized that it wasn't in the garage with a solitary bulb. I put a 75 watt incandescent and it does pretty well lighting the entire area. Put a CFL bulb in and it was unbearable and hard to see anything. Then I read that you "can't" just throw them away when they burn out(and despite the claims, it only lasted about as long as any other bulb i've ever used). Maybe they've come a long way since, but I wasn't impressed.

Your bulbs has been poorly marked, same happened here in the beginning, I've seen 13 watt bulbs marked as 75, but they only compare to 65, 9 and 11 was marked as 60Watt, but really only compare to 45-55.
I find I need to go a little higher than "recommended" with CFLs.
The quality of the bulbs should allow for at least as many on/off cycles as the hours it can last, unfortunately you will need some sort of test of the bulbs to be sure of that, in Denmark we have a national agancy doing this for us, if the quality is OK, they are allowed to put a certain label on them.


Well, the problem is that there is no such thing as a safe way to dispose of hazardous materials so long as they stay on this planet. Technically, flying them into space (to ostensibly hurtle them sunward) also carries with it the element of risk as the craft could experience a failure at launch or at some point in its parking orbit prior to trans-solar injection.

What I really object to is this knee-jerk reaction our society seems to have wherein we want to force a change upon ourselves and justify it by this Chicken Little "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"-esq mentality. I refuse to buy into the mentality or the paranoia it generates, and therefore amongst other things as well I refuse to buy CFL bulbs.

For each mg mercury used in CFLs, almost 4mg is saved from powerplants, and mercury is only one of some 68 very harmful emissions from powerplants. If you don't want to use CFLs because of this, you are really way way off the mark.

You could of course use LEDs, I don't know why they are so rare here, but they are, and also they are only available as spots, but I may very likely change to LEDs when more options are available.

Pros for LED
In theory any color temp you want, even adjustable color!
No on/off problem.
No Mercury AFAIK.
Lasts as long maybe even longer than CFLs
Edit:
Works with dimmers.

Cons For LED
Expensive
Only Low wattage (you need more lamps)
Only spots

I think the cons will disappear soon. White LEDs have been cheap for a long time now, why are bulbs still so expensive?

[Mr Bean]

I refuse to buy into the mentality or the paranoia it generates, and therefore amongst other things as well I refuse to buy CFL bulbs.

I refuse to buy CFLs because they're so dim it looks like someone is holding a pillow over the bulb. And they don't last nearly as long as the manufacturer claims, they just gradually get dimmer until they're unusable so technically they still work but not for nearly as long as anyone would like to think.

I know this is a contentious issue and that most people disagree with me, either way I use a 100W bulb now and I love it. I never thought I'd say that about such a mundane object as the humble light bulb but having suffered the dim septic glow of a CFL for too long it's so refreshing to be able to focus on things again.

I think the problem is that the manufacturers find the dimmest possible 60W bulb and then claim that (under idea conditions) their CFL is just as bright.

[Exodist]

Your bulbs has been poorly marked, same happened here in the beginning, I've seen 13 watt bulbs marked as 75, but they only compare to 65, 9 and 11 was marked as 60Watt, but really only compare to 45-55.
I find I need to go a little higher than "recommended" with CFLs.
The quality of the bulbs should allow for at least as many on/off cycles as the hours it can last, unfortunately you will need some sort of test of the bulbs to be sure of that, in Denmark we have a national agancy doing this for us, if the quality is OK, they are allowed to put a certain label on them.



For each mg mercury used in CFLs, almost 4mg is saved from powerplants, and mercury is only one of some 68 very harmful emissions from powerplants. If you don't want to use CFLs because of this, you are really way way off the mark.

You could of course use LEDs, I don't know why they are so rare here, but they are, and also they are only available as spots, but I may very likely change to LEDs when more options are available.

Pros for LED
In theory any color temp you want, even adjustable color!
No on/off problem.
No Mercury AFAIK.
Lasts as long maybe even longer than CFLs

Cons For LED
Expensive
Only Low wattage (you need more lamps)
Only spots

I think the cons will disappear soon. White LEDs have been cheap for a long time now, why are bulbs still so expensive?


I have no idea why no one is selling house hold LED lamps. They use much less energy then CFLs, last almost a lifetime, cheaper to make and no harmfull substances are used to make them. AFIK

[Paqman]

If it's all the same, I think I'll stick with blue-shift tinted incandescent lightbulbs (that is, made to be more sun-spectrum-like).


You can get full-spectrum CFLs.



I don't believe in filling my house up with more and more sources of mercury, thank you very much. We're not suppose to somehow despoil the environment through over-consumption of power, but yet it's perfectly acceptable to cram more mercury contamination into our environment as a trade-off?

Sorry, but I don't get that.

The mercury would only get into the environment if you put your CFLs into landfill, which is a bad idea, and illegal in some countries. CFLs are electronic, so should be recycled through the WEEE channel. If you don't know what your local authority does about WEEE you should probably check their website or give them a call. If you're in the EU, then all local authorities have to provide a domestic WEEE recycling service, by law.

[BuffaloX]

I have no idea why no one is selling house hold LED lamps. They use much less energy then CFLs, last almost a lifetime, cheaper to make and no harmfull substances are used to make them. AFIK

Yep my bet is on the LEDs for now.

I even forgot to mention one important advantage over CFLs:
LEDs also work with dimmers which CFLs don't

[etnlIcarus]

Well, the problem is that there is no such thing as a safe way to dispose of hazardous materials so long as they stay on this planet. Technically, flying them into space (to ostensibly hurtle them sunward) also carries with it the element of risk as the craft could experience a failure at launch or at some point in its parking orbit prior to trans-solar injection.Uggh, mercury can be recovered and reused. If it's not being recycled, bitch to your gov't about it.


What I really object to is this knee-jerk reaction our society seems to have wherein we want to force a change upon ourselves and justify it by this Chicken Little "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"-esq mentality. I refuse to buy into the mentality or the paranoia it generates, and therefore amongst other things as well I refuse to buy CFL bulbs.So your response to knee-jerk reactions, is to respond with your own knee-jerk reaction? That has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Who is it you think you're teaching a lesson? God forbid I were to expound on the implications of poor hygiene; you'd stop bathing just to spite me.

I suggest finding a more constructive outlet for your feelings of contempt. Painting your face and attending sporting events seems to be a popular option.

[geekygirl]

Uggh, mercury can be recovered and reused. If it's not being recycled, bitch to your gov't about it.

So your response to knee-jerk reactions, is to respond with your own knee-jerk reaction? That has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Who is it you think you're teaching a lesson? God forbid I were to expound on the implications of poor hygiene; you'd stop bathing just to spite me.

I suggest finding a more constructive outlet for your feelings of contempt. Painting your face and attending sporting events seems to be a popular option.

I don't think you get the point MiketheC is trying to make. As a whole the world tends to be rather jumpy at the moment when someone with any sort of scientific background says the world is about to end (and depending on who you listen to that's going to be anywhere from 10 years to 1000 years..go figure :rolleyes: ) and therefore you *must* use this product as it *will* stave off said world destruction by 2 minutes and 76 seconds.

No one bothers to mention the fact that said product contains some rather nasty chemicals (you live in Australia...remember the whole James Hardie Asbestos compensation claims - it was the best thing since sliced bread when it first came out...oh yeah we failed to check that this stuff *might* cause cancer and lung disease further down the track)

Same thing goes with CFL bulbs except we *do* know that mercury causes problems and issues - I have seen my neighbours here just chuck them into the regular rubbish bin - so who is it that is recycling them again? Not Townsville City Council from where I am standing...

So to turn this into a personal attack over what was merely a statement of opinion is a bit of a knee jerk reaction in itself towards one post/opinion.

[Paqman]

I have no idea why no one is selling house hold LED lamps.

They are. You might have to go to specialist lighting store to get them though.

[Paqman]

LEDs also work with dimmers which CFLs don't

Used to be so. You can in fact get dimmable CFLs now.

[etnlIcarus]

I don't think you get the point MiketheC is trying to make.Yet you never explain how, instead opting to repeat Mike's appeals to emotion, almost verbatim.


I have seen my neighbours here just chuck them into the regular rubbish bin - so who is it that is recycling them again? Not Townsville City Council from where I am standing...You've failed to relate your propositions to eachother in any coherent way. This is a non-sequitur.

And I suggest that you inform your neighbours of the bins at most shopping centres and google (http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/waste/lamp-mercury.html).


So to turn this into a personal attackI did no such thing. Mike's meaning was clear.


over what was merely a statement of opinion is a bit of a knee jerk reaction in itself towards one post/opinion.This statement doesn't make a bit of sense.

[MikeTheC]

Your bulbs has been poorly marked, same happened here in the beginning, I've seen 13 watt bulbs marked as 75, but they only compare to 65, 9 and 11 was marked as 60Watt, but really only compare to 45-55.
I find I need to go a little higher than "recommended" with CFLs.
The quality of the bulbs should allow for at least as many on/off cycles as the hours it can last, unfortunately you will need some sort of test of the bulbs to be sure of that, in Denmark we have a national agancy doing this for us, if the quality is OK, they are allowed to put a certain label on them.
What amazes me, BuffaloX, is that so many people are willing to go along with all of this and that these sorts of things haven't, from a purely consumer point of view, raised red flags in the minds of more people out there. It seems like an incredible game of shuck-n-jive to me.


For each mg mercury used in CFLs, almost 4mg is saved from powerplants, and mercury is only one of some 68 very harmful emissions from powerplants. If you don't want to use CFLs because of this, you are really way way off the mark.
The problem I have with this (nothing personal, mind you) is this is part of a much broader political game of chess designed to manipulate us, the people, into some kind of direction. I'm not saying power plants present absolutely no hazard whatsoever, but when you consider how truly little impact we have had on the environment of this planet and the fact we are aware of the concept of -- and specifics of -- the notion of "hazardous materials" it's not like no effort is being made to keep these places clean. Take a look at so-called "clean coal" plants, for instance.

And if you want to argue, let's say, that even clean coal plants are too dirty, then what about nuclear plants? We haven't built one in this country in ages and ages, and look at what's happened to our power grid and population size in the decades since. Nuclear is the cleanest and most efficient form of power generation next to hydroelectric dams. Neither solar nor wind power can make that entire claim. But we'd still, as I've said in another post, go around like Chicken Little and operate in full panic mode, somehow wishing for an unchanging state, instead of saying "How do we best address the needs of people on this planet?" and, in moving in that direction, do what we need to do to ensure no stone is un-turned in being safe in what we do?


You could of course use LEDs, I don't know why they are so rare here, but they are, and also they are only available as spots, but I may very likely change to LEDs when more options are available.

I have no idea why no one is selling house hold LED lamps. They use much less energy then CFLs, last almost a lifetime, cheaper to make and no harmfull substances are used to make them. AFIK

See, now you guys are getting a lot closer to the mark with this question. If I could replace the incandescent bulbs in my house with LEDs, I would seriously consider doing so. The question is why are the prices on them so insanely high in the consumer sector? Hmm? I have a feeling there's a lot more going on behind the scenes on this one than is generally known, not necessarily in "propping up LED prices" so much as shifting focus away from any other possible solution to CFL. We're, as a society, being so myopically focused on that one singular illumination technology -- and through the most artificial of means, government intervention and legislation -- this should absolutely set off red flags in everybody's minds.




Uggh, mercury can be recovered and reused. If it's not being recycled, bitch to your gov't about it.
The problem is this is part of an overall argument in which I believe you're putting the cart before the horse.

The government shouldn't be forcing any particular illumination standard on anyone. The fact that they are is only as a result of being lobbied by companies who want to sell this kind of product, and the environmental groups who want to strap all of us to trees.


So your response to knee-jerk reactions, is to respond with your own knee-jerk reaction? That has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Who is it you think you're teaching a lesson? God forbid I were to expound on the implications of poor hygiene; you'd stop bathing just to spite me.
It is really too bad you're unwilling to allow anyone else to hold an opinion which differs from yours on this subject. So much for tolerance. Your attitude, sadly, is highly typical of many out there, especially of a certain political worldview which on the one hand says "Tolerance! Tolerance! Tolerance!" but then turns around and demonizes anyone who doesn't share their worldview. That, sir, is hypocrisy in action, and I'm afraid you've just committed it yourself.

And what in the world does personal hygiene have to do with not wanting to use a particular form of illumination? I would, in real life, treat you with the respect you deserve as a fellow human being. Heaven forbid I treated you the way you want to pretend I would treat you. If that's the way you truly see the world, then no wonder you are so filled with intolerance. Be greatful we aren't in actuality the way you desire to see us.

[Ric_NYC]

Soft white is better than "daylight" or the terrible "cool white" (the one that makes everything blue in the house).

[Paqman]

If I could replace the incandescent bulbs in my house with LEDs, I would seriously consider doing so. The question is why are the prices on them so insanely high in the consumer sector? Hmm? I have a feeling there's a lot more going on behind the scenes on this one than is generally known

Lol, no need for the tinfoil hat!

All new technologies come onto the market at high prices. CFLs used to be a lot more expensive, and i'll bet incandescent lights were pricey when they first came out. The LED lights will come down in price, and almost certainly replace CFLs as the top dog.

[Ric_NYC]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2169/colorvi.png

The soft white has a warm (yellow) color close to the one produced by the traditional incandescent light bulbs.

[MikeTheC]

Lol, no need for the tinfoil hat!

All new technologies come onto the market at high prices. CFLs used to be a lot more expensive, and i'll bet incandescent lights were pricey when they first came out. The LED lights will come down in price, and almost certainly replace CFLs as the top dog.

The problem, Paqman, is that you're approaching this from a false assumption. CFLs are not enjoying the position they have in the market right now because of honest dealing and genuine unfettered customer choice. They are in the position they are in because our respective governments are forcing them down our collective throats.

If this was true marketplace competition, I would sort of expect LED to have a fair shot at winning. Unfortunately, it's not -- and never has been -- about finding a better solution, but about selling this specific solution -- and only this specific solution -- due to a lot of lobbyists and international pressure. We as consumers lose, no matter how you slice it.

As a consumer, I'm rather offended by that!

[etnlIcarus]

I'm just ignoring the bits not directed at me, for fear of doing my head in.


The problem is this is part of an overall argument in which I believe you're putting the cart before the horse.I'm really not interested in regressing into the subject of your broad ideological assertions. Either respond to my specific criticism or don't.
The government shouldn't be forcing any particular illumination standard on anyone.Perhaps not. In this case, it doesn't look to be necessary, considering the largely positive consumer response. Where gov't intervention may be required is industry-side, insuring clean production processes and sweetening the viability of recyclability.

Regardless, that was a red herring I really shouldn't have indulged.


The fact that they are is only as a result of being lobbied by companies who want to sell this kind of product, and the environmental groups who want to strap all of us to trees.I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you're being facetious.


It is really too bad you're unwilling to allow anyone else to hold an opinion which differs from yours on this subject.Refuting nonsense =/= treading on your freedom of expression.


So much for tolerance. Your attitude, sadly, is highly typical of many out there, especially of a certain political worldview which on the one hand says "Tolerance! Tolerance! Tolerance!" but then turns around and demonizes anyone who doesn't share their worldview. That, sir, is hypocrisy in action, and I'm afraid you've just committed it yourself.Apparently I'm to be held up to the yardstick set by some 60's acid freak, whom Mike has decided I'm in-league with.

You should know me better than this by now and you should just generally know better, than to stoop to such a level.


And what in the world does personal hygiene have to do with not wanting to use a particular form of illumination?I was merely using your own logic to demonstrate the ridiculousness of your behaviour. An informal Reducto ad Absurdum.


I would, in real life, treat you with the respect you deserve as a fellow human being. Heaven forbid I treated you the way you want to pretend I would treat you. If that's the way you truly see the world, then no wonder you are so filled with intolerance. Be greatful we aren't in actuality the way you desire to see us.Who's, "us"? You're a terribly confused individual. You may find this hard to believe but not everything is part of some deliberate political conspiracy. Equally, not every discussion can regress to vague insinuations as to your opponents' affiliations (that is the definition of a 'personal attack', by the way).


You severely misunderstand the nature of our discourse: respecting a person and respecting ideas are fundamentally distinct. No person has to prove their merit as a human being to me, or anyone else. If, however, they put forward an proposition, I will hold that idea to the level of scrutiny I see fit.

Anyway, it's 2am. I've had enough. Good night.

[Paqman]

As a consumer, I'm rather offended by that!

I'd say you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If you were being forced to use an inferior product, then fair enough. But why get all hot and bothered about being forced to use something which is better? Just sounds like you're resistant to change, to me.

[MikeTheC]

I'd say you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If you were being forced to use an inferior product, then fair enough. But why get all hot and bothered about being forced to use something which is better? Just sounds like you're resistant to change, to me.

I am against being forced, period. This isn't a dictatorship, you know. Or, rather, it didn't used to be. Also, as a Linux user, you of all people should understand the implications of anyone -- anytime -- forcing a product on you.

CFLs aren't the better product. That you would accept such a notion without one ounce of curiosity or desire to investigate on your own is sadly typical of the general malaise which has permeated our collective culture.

[Paqman]

I am against being forced, period. This isn't a dictatorship, you know. Or, rather, it didn't used to be. Also, as a Linux user, you of all people should understand the implications of anyone -- anytime -- forcing a product on you.


Just because Linux exists, that doesn't mean the government don't have a right to set policy. I happen to think reducing energy use is a good thing. Call me crazy, but I actually think efficiency is desirable.

You're forced to do a lot of things by the government: drive at a certain speed, pay taxes, drink treated water, etc, etc. All for good reasons. Why are you so cross that they're trying to reduce your electricity bill?!? :lolflag:



CFLs aren't the better product.


They demonstrably are. They use less energy and they last longer while producing the same amount of light. That saves me money and reduces energy wastage. Their only slight flaw is that they don't produce full light immediately, so aren't useful for security lighting. Some people don't like their colour, but that's a matter of taste, and easily rectified.

Incandescent lights were a complete pain IMO. You had to change them constantly, and they were expensive to run. A lot of homes would have been using as much as a kW just on lighting! That's just mad.



That you would accept such a notion without one ounce of curiosity or desire to investigate on your own is sadly typical of the general malaise which has permeated our collective culture.

This is just a silly ad hominem. How can you possibly know what research i've done into this? Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I don't know what i'm talking about. Frankly, I think to fall back on such a lazy debating technique reflects poorly on you and your whole argument.

[gletob]

Cut the politics or this thread will probably be closed.

[MythAaron]

Incandescent lights were a complete pain IMO. You had to change them constantly, and they were expensive to run.
They are not even light bulbs. They are heat bulbs that give off a little light as a byproduct.

[steveneddy]

We use 40 watt blue tinted lamps throughout the house and in the case of lighting fixtures with multiple lamps we literally unscrew some of the lamps for lighting up a corner and in the case of our dining room we screw a few more in while eating.

We have found that a lower wattage lamp with a slight blue tint (like outside lighting) looks brighter and is easy on the eyes.

We even found blue tinted lamps for the fridge and freezer and it looks great.

I understand about the CFL's. We hate them and find they are more expensive in the long run.

[Rainstride]

Well, the problem is that there is no such thing as a safe way to dispose of hazardous materials so long as they stay on this planet. Technically, flying them into space (to ostensibly hurtle them sunward) also carries with it the element of risk as the craft could experience a failure at launch or at some point in its parking orbit prior to trans-solar injection.

What I really object to is this knee-jerk reaction our society seems to have wherein we want to force a change upon ourselves and justify it by this Chicken Little "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"-esq mentality. I refuse to buy into the mentality or the paranoia it generates, and therefore amongst other things as well I refuse to buy CFL bulbs.

well said, there is only one way i know of to dispose of these materials and currently its not in use. the company that owns it calls it an elemental recycler, it uses a 32,000 degree plasma torch to break the bonds between the atoms turning them back to there base elements. though i don't see it going wide scale any time soon(if ever).



I'd say you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If you were being forced to use an inferior product, then fair enough. But why get all hot and bothered about being forced to use something which is better? Just sounds like you're resistant to change, to me.

maybe some of us don't want to risk contaminating our children and consequently brain damaging them for a little bit of power savings. you wouldn't buy these bulbs if they where filled with hexavalent chromium, what makes you think mercury is any better? just because it is in old thermometers?


I am against being forced, period. This isn't a dictatorship, you know. Or, rather, it didn't used to be. Also, as a Linux user, you of all people should understand the implications of anyone -- anytime -- forcing a product on you.

CFLs aren't the better product. That you would accept such a notion without one ounce of curiosity or desire to investigate on your own is sadly typical of the general malaise which has permeated our collective culture.

+1



Cut the politics or this thread will probably be closed.

hmm... I wish we still had omgpp's.

[MikeTheC]

Cut the politics or this thread will probably be closed.

While I understand what you are saying and might even be inclined to agree with aspects of it on a prima facia basis, the problem is the implications of it.

Sad to say, but as things are presently going, it is rapidly becoming impossible to find a subject into which politics or government policy have not intruded. Regardless of whether I even agree or not with the OP's position, I agree with the OP's right to hold that opinion and to bring it up as a subject for discussion in a culturally diverse community forum.

If this subject cannot be discussed and this thread should be locked, then this entire board should be locked, as there is practically not one thing discussed on this entire board which at some point isn't of some kind of political or otherwise contentious nature.

When we reach the point as an aggregate society where self-censure has run so amok that we can no longer dare say anything lest we offend someone, somewhere, then what is at risk is far more than our right of free speech.

[Exodist]

From reading over this thread, again and again I am starting to see a trend here.
Seems possibly that CFLs over seas and in the UK may not be as good quality and still little more expensive then the CFLs now being sold here in the US at your local Walmart.

For example a single CFL (bulb style) thats around 16watts produces the same brightness as a regular 75w light bulb.
That bulb cost on average $3.00 to $3.77 USD.
It also saves the home owner about $20.00 USD over the course of the year.
CFLs last longer here in the US. Reason being is our 110volt power. 110v appliances and even our bulbs run HOTTER then 220volt conterparts over seas. We constantly have to replace the regular bulbs about once per month or two if we are lucky.
Also with regular light bulbs here in the US, they are heating our house while we are trying to cool it during the summer months and on top of that the higher wattage is costing us additional.

Your basic 2000 square foot house here in the US has around a $400.00 electricity bill when using regular lights. If that house has x25 light bulbs in it on average. The home owner can reduce his electricty bill by $41.66 USD per month by switching to CFLs.
Mind you at $3.50 ea per CFL it will take 2 months for the CFLs to pay for their self. The CFLs also tend to last at least 3 years before going out.


So here is why many of us run CFLs here in the US. But depending on the above varibles, They may or may not be the best choice for everyone. :-)

[mick222]

From reading over this thread, again and again I am starting to see a trend here.
Seems possibly that CFLs over seas and in the UK may not be as good quality and still little more expensive then the CFLs now being sold here in the US at your local Walmart.
No i think the cfls are probably as good in the UK many being made be GE It's just a British thing we love to complain about anything even if it costs us money. Especially something we think is an eu directive.

[gletob]

While I understand what you are saying and might even be inclined to agree with aspects of it on a prima facia basis, the problem is the implications of it.

Sad to say, but as things are presently going, it is rapidly becoming impossible to find a subject into which politics or government policy have not intruded. Regardless of whether I even agree or not with the OP's position, I agree with the OP's right to hold that opinion and to bring it up as a subject for discussion in a culturally diverse community forum.

If this subject cannot be discussed and this thread should be locked, then this entire board should be locked, as there is practically not one thing discussed on this entire board which at some point isn't of some kind of political or otherwise contentious nature.

When we reach the point as an aggregate society where self-censure has run so amok that we can no longer dare say anything lest we offend someone, somewhere, then what is at risk is far more than our right of free speech.

I never said I liked the rule, just that I follow it.

[Exodist]

No i think the cfls are probably as good in the UK many being made be GE It's just a British thing we love to complain about anything even if it costs us money. Especially something we think is an eu directive.

LOL old saying goes, "he isnt happy unless he complaining."

So is the EU forcing everyone over there to buy CFLs?

I would never put a CFL in a light socket I hardly use. It would never pay for its self. I only use them in areas I use all the time. But mind you two of my hanging lamps use smaller bulbs where the CFLs would be to bright around here anyway.

[Exodist]

I never said I liked the rule, just that I follow it.

I dont think referencing something against a gov policy is actually the same as discussing a policy.

Same as saying the "the national speed limit is around 75 MPH here in the US on my interstate highways."

Se its referencing something and not discussing the political reasons behind it?

[ed5000]

CFLs aren't the better product.


Don't forget waste heat is lost energy. Those incadescent lamps do have some usefulness because of that. like the easy bake ovens of the '60s or '70s. My sister could bake a cake in 10 minutes by using one 40 watt bulb.

[woedend]

Your basic 2000 square foot house here in the US has around a $400.00 electricity bill when using regular lights. If that house has x25 light bulbs in it on average. The home owner can reduce his electricty bill by $41.66 USD per month by switching to CFLs.
Mind you at $3.50 ea per CFL it will take 2 months for the CFLs to pay for their self. The CFLs also tend to last at least 3 years before going out.


So here is why many of us run CFLs here in the US. But depending on the above varibles, They may or may not be the best choice for everyone. :-)

Woah woah..where on earth do you live and who does your power. Lived in a 1500 Sqftr that used to run about 150$ a month at the highest, 100 - 120$ average. Incandescent lighting. I now live in a 750 sq ft or so appt and pay about 60 a month with shoddy insulation. And running all incandescent bulbs the power bill here can be as low as 40-50$. I don't think I will be getting free or near-free power by using CFLs.

[caro]

Your basic 2000 square foot house here in the US has around a $400.00 electricity bill when using regular lights. If that house has x25 light bulbs in it on average. The home owner can reduce his electricty bill by $41.66 USD per month by switching to CFLs.
Mind you at $3.50 ea per CFL it will take 2 months for the CFLs to pay for their self. The CFLs also tend to last at least 3 years before going out.


So here is why many of us run CFLs here in the US. But depending on the above varibles, They may or may not be the best choice for everyone. :-)
I live in the US and have a house about 50% larger than your example, and my HIGHEST electric bill is maybe $200 in the summer with the AC running and much lower in the winter. And that's with incandescent bulbs. I think your numbers are WAY off -- or were published by a group that is promoting CFLs.

I hate the harsh light of CFLs. They don't work with dimmers and they are no good for security lights. I haven't tested them in my outside lights, but I would guess they perform poorly in the cold.

I will pick my light bulbs, not the government. I would use LEDs if they were available because of the options and flexibility they offer. CFLS are a poor solution looking for a problem.

[MikeTheC]

Woah woah..where on earth do you live and who does your power. Lived in a 1500 Sqftr that used to run about 150$ a month at the highest, 100 - 120$ average. Incandescent lighting. I now live in a 750 sq ft or so appt and pay about 60 a month with shoddy insulation. And running all incandescent bulbs the power bill here can be as low as 40-50$. I don't think I will be getting free or near-free power by using CFLs.

My prices here in S.W. Florida scale almost exactly with yours. That post you quoted also seemed a bit outlandish to me, too.

[cariboo]

Remember to keep it civil folks.

[Rocket2DMn]

Thread closed, I think it has run its course and has degraded into off-topic bickering.