Linguistic survey on ubuntuforums.org

[aguafuertes]

Hi everybody,

I'm currently writing my thesis in linguistics, on the perception of language use in online communities. Being a long-time Ubuntu user myself, I decided to base my empirical research on the huge and active community that ubuntuforums.org represents.

To do this successfully, I need your help: I developed an online survey and need as many participants from ubuntuforums.org as possible - all of you would be perfect ;)

Link to the survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Spread the word!

More on the survey

My online survey takes 4 Threads from ubuntuforums.org, and I simply want to know what you think about them. For this, all you have to do is to rate the single posts in these threads on a scale, going from "really polite" to "really rude". Additionally you can/should provide a short comment on why you chose a certain point on the scale - and markup the text parts that "triggered" your decision (if possible).

I uploaded a short screencast (~ 3 min) on how to take the survey to youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Furthermore, the survey:

is completely anonymous
requires Javascript and Cookies to be enabled
takes 15-20 minutes
the best thing: you can win an Ubuntu book


One important thing: if you take the survey, please complete it, otherwise I cannot use your results. So hang in there - at the end you can provide your E-mail adress and participate in an Ubuntu book raffle!

Once again, the link to the survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/

More background

My name is Gregor, I'm from Germany, where I study English Linguistics at Bonn University (http://www.linguistics.uni-bonn.de/). You can find my - currently inactive - blog here: http://blog.openinformation.org/index-en.html

I've presented this project to the ubuntuforums.org council to make sure that it is in accordance with the Code of Conduct and in general acceptable for the ubuntuforums.org community. Guys, thanks for your feedback and support!

If you have any questions, just write a post in this thread and ask - I'll be happy to respond.

Thanks a lot for your interest and participation!
Gregor

[aeiah]

i find ubuntuforums.org unusually polite. i think this is partly due to it being full of a lot of new linux users sharing a newly found enthusiasm for the opensource movement as well as stringent moderators. i dont think it's particularly indicative of social forums as a whole, but is probably indicative of many tech support forums. are you also doing a similar thing with, say, 4chan's /b/? :P

[aguafuertes]

i find ubuntuforums.org unusually polite.

I agree, due to the COC ubuntuforums.org has a very polite atmosphere, especially for a forum of this size.

But that makes it more interesting, too: while there exists a clear Code of Conduct, it will be exciting to see how native and non-native speakers of English interpret/enact the COC in their communication - and how they perceive single posts.

[aeiah]

ahh yes, i get ya. i suppose its a decent one to use in that case. anyway, i did your survey. be sure to post the results some time, heh

[Elfy]

I'd be really interested in knowing why you want to know how long I've lived in the US but not in any other countries of the world.

[aguafuertes]

Thanks!


be sure to post the results some time, heh

definitely, but it will take a while ;)

[aguafuertes]

I'd be really interested in knowing why you want to know how long I've lived in the US but not in any other countries of the world.

The varieties of English (US, GB, AUS etc...) differ significantly in nearly all linguistic features, be it different words, grammatical structures, semantics or pragmatics. I want to be able to set the focus on one variety, if necessary, in comparison to the others

Unfortunately I don't have the time to do this for each variety (that would be huuuge), so I had to single out one - the US American variety.

[Elfy]

The varieties of English (US, GB, AUS etc...) differ significantly in nearly all linguistic features, be it different words, grammatical structures, semantics or pragmatics. I want to be able to set the focus on one variety, if necessary, in comparison to the others

Unfortunately I don't have the time to do this for each variety (that would be huuuge), so I had to single out one - the US American variety.

Thanks for the reply :)

[aguafuertes]

Thanks for your interest ;)

It would be actually cool to have more time and ressources to do this kind of drill-down for all varieties.

[Elfy]

I just wondered if it was because you perceived that there were more american users here.

Personally, of course, being English, imo the English used here is correct and everyone else is just being different :lol:

[aguafuertes]

imo the english used here is correct and everyone else is just being different

:)

[bapoumba]

aguafuertes asked the FC before posting the survey. We agreed to it and will keep this thread sticky for a week.

[aguafuertes]

Thanks bapoumba - and sorry mods for the hassle!

[bapoumba]

Thanks bapoumba - and sorry mods for the hassle!
No problem, welcome :)

[sydbat]

Finished it. I hope my answers help you with your project!

[schauerlich]

That was fun. Kudos to whoever developed that quiz-taking software, it was really cool.

[aguafuertes]

Finished it. I hope my answers help you with your project!

Definitely, thanks! That is the nice thing - every answer helps, as I'm interested in individual perception.


That was fun. Kudos to whoever developed that quiz-taking software, it was really cool.

Thanks, that is great to hear. I wrote the app myself, using Django and JQuery :) Really glad you liked it!

[dragos240]

Done :)

[23meg]

Thanks, that is great to hear. I wrote the app myself, using Django and JQuery :) Really glad you liked it!

I enjoyed using it too; it's simple and well designed. Would you be interested in making it available under a free software license?

[Irihapeti]

Done. I enjoyed it and I hope the answers are useful to you.

[chriskin]

wow i was included in the survey - did you include that thread for some specific reason or by chance?
(who thought my post was rude? i can be ruder to him if he likes :) )

edit : by the way i completed the survey as well

[RabbitWho]

That was a really cool survey, it really made me think about politeness in a way I hadn't before, I always try to be as polite as possible in asking for help and now that I actually compared the different methods people used I can see what actually worked nicely.

[JC Cheloven]

OK, done. For people like myself (English not being our native language), this is interesting. I often ask myself whether someone is being impolite with me or not. Or whether myself I'm being (unintentionally) rude or not.

Out of curiosity: the last post (" it's a popular question but it doesn't make it a bad one..."), is a fake post, isn't it? I mean, nobody can be so forgiving, can he? :D

[ad_267]

Anyone else worried they were going to show up in one of the threads? :D

Edit: Haha I see chriskin was now, can't remember if the post was rude or not though!

[avaralom]

Interesting survey!
Are you going to post stats or any results from it? It'd be interesting to see what other people say.

Also, I have to agree about the quiz page itself. Very cool setup. :D

[JDShu]

I recognized chriskin immediately, was like.. "wow, these are real posts!" my answer to that is confidential ;)

I admit, I've taken a linguistics course before so I might be a tainted sample

[keiichidono]

I enjoyed using it too; it's simple and well designed. Would you be interested in making it available under a free software license?

I too, would like to see it under a free software license.

[aguafuertes]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback and the participation, this is amazing!


Would you be interested in making it available under a free software license?

Interesting idea - I'm a bit afraid that the code is not "pretty", as this is my first try on python, and that the use case is very specific - but if people still find it useful, why not. I'm still developing the analytic part, though, and it will have to wait till I handed in the paper in November.


it really made me think about politeness in a way I hadn't before,


I often ask myself whether someone is being impolite with me or not. Or whether myself I'm being (unintentionally) rude or not.

That is the same for me, too. There are many theories and frameworks looking at verbal behavior, but in the end I always find it fascinating how different we all perceive certain things. And that is why communication in an international community is so interesting, but also so challenging.


Out of curiosity: the last post (" it's a popular question but it doesn't make it a bad one..."), is a fake post, isn't it?

Nope, all 100% original posts ;)


who thought my post was rude? i can be ruder to him if he likes ;)

Yep, there is always room for more :D


Are you going to post stats or any results from it? It'd be interesting to see what other people say.

Definitely - I'm actually looking into a way to make some simple "live" statistics available soon, and of course the final results will be available as well.


I admit, I've taken a linguistics course before so I might be a tainted sample

As I'm interested in individual perception, it shouldn't matter that much - as long as you did not let the linguist in you take over completely ;)

Thanks so much for the interest, this is really great!

[keiichidono]

How soon until we get to see the code? I suggest github or gitorious for code hosting.

[Giant Speck]

I thoroughly enjoyed that survey. It provided excellent examples of posts that are rude, posts that are polite, and posts that fall between rude and polite. I also liked the fact that the posts were not fabricated; however, I think it would have been better if the usernames had been altered to protect the identities of the original posters.

[aguafuertes]

I think it would have been better if the usernames had been altered to protect the identities of the original posters.

I have to say that this is a very valid point - I remember having this on my list to consider more thoroughly. In the rush during the last days I did not come to a final conclusion and it slipped through.

I still can think of some reasons for not altering the posters' identities, however. One is that I wanted the context of the posts as authentic as possible - and the user name is a very important part of that.

Another is that this survey is NOT an attempt to judge certain behavior - it tries to find out what different people perceive with regard to these posts. It is definitely not going to result in a prescriptive set of communicative "rules", thereby stigmatizing other verbal behavior. Ubuntuforums.org has a very clear Code of Conduct for the extreme cases - this survey is trying to find out whether, apart from the extremes, there are different perceptions between native and non-native speakers on English - and raise awareness with regard to that.

Finally, and that is the most pragmatic reason, anybody who is really interested in the poster's identities would have known them within a few seconds, by using the forum search. It is a (unsettling) side effect of public internet communication that there is no real anonymity, thanks to full text indexing and search engines.

I'm glad you brought up this issue, however, and really hope that nobody feels judged or even uncomfortable by the inclusion in the survey. This is definitely NOT the intention of this survey, and I apologize if this should be the case. I can't change the user names in the survey now, but I will alter them in the analytics chapter I write for my paper.

[Giant Speck]

I'm glad you brought up this issue, however, and really hope that nobody feels judged or even uncomfortable by the inclusion in the survey. This is definitely NOT the intention of this survey, and I apologize if this should be the case. I can't change the user names in the survey now, but I will alter them in the analytics chapter I write for my paper.

It could have an interesting side effect, though. I've always wondered how other users perceive what I write. Being able to read through all the different responses would be an interesting experience.

[aguafuertes]

How soon until we get to see the code? I suggest github or gitorious for code hosting.

I calculate that it won't be before Mid-November, depending on how well the writing of the paper and the analytics module goes. Keep nudging me from time to time ;)

Don't get up your hopes too high, though - it is a very specialized app, developed by a python newbie to do just this kind of survey. That is the great thing about Django - it lets you create something for your specific use case quite fast. But I would really like it if people find even this small app useful for their purposes - and probably improve it.

[chriskin]

I recognized chriskin immediately, was like.. "wow, these are real posts!" my answer to that is confidential ;)

I admit, I've taken a linguistics course before so I might be a tainted sample


Anyone else worried they were going to show up in one of the threads? :D

Edit: Haha I see chriskin was now, can't remember if the post was rude or not though!

can't remember...confidential...we all know what it means about the answers :P
:popcorn:


If he was trying to protect privacy, he would have to change 1)names 2)avatars 3)signatures
it's too much work for nothing - after all they were our posts, we chose to write them and make them public , so there is no violation of privacy

[aguafuertes]

he would have to change 1)names 2)avatars 3)signatures

True, and even then it would be very easy to find the original threads, using the forum search or Google.

I still see the point Giant Speck made, and that's why I'll change the user names for the analytic part of the paper. And that's why I'm glad you are fine with the survey ;)

[keiichidono]

I calculate that it won't be before Mid-November, depending on how well the writing of the paper and the analytics module goes. Keep nudging me from time to time ;)

Don't get up your hopes too high, though - it is a very specialized app, developed by a python newbie to do just this kind of survey. That is the great thing about Django - it lets you create something for your specific use case quite fast. But I would really like it if people find even this small app useful for their purposes - and probably improve it.

Auruahg! I want that code naow! *nudge* *nudge* *kick*

[Ms_Angel_D]

I took the survey as well it was, as others have mentioned, Fun. I really would like to see an app like that made available for others to use.

[aguafuertes]

Hi everybody,

the response I got so far has been really great, thanks! I took a snapshot of the survey and compiled some quick demographic stats, for those who are interested:

http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

It is not real-time, but I will update it daily, if time permits. 90 participants in ~ 28 hours, of whom 76 completed the survey - that is impressive! I plan to run the survey for 2-3 weeks, and if participation continues like that, I'm in statistic heaven :D

It already shows quite nicely how international the ubuntuforums.org community is - with the US and Great Britain in front. It also seems to confirm the impression that, still, the majority of members in a Free Software community are male. But as I said, this is just a first quick shot...

If you haven't taken the survey yet and would like to do so now, here is the link again: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/

And for the screencast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Thanks again!

[aguafuertes]

Auruahg! I want that code naow! *nudge* *nudge* *kick*

That is not exactly what I meant by "nudging me from time to time", but ok :D


I really would like to see an app like that made available for others to use

I will do that, but as I said before, definitely not before mid-November. I'm really glad people like it and want to use it :)

[running_rabbit07]

I liked it. I hope it is helpful to you and people taking it.

[Eldera]

Filling in the survey really makes a person think.

Of course it took me a little longer. I had to stop and try things a bit, when I couldn't get the dropdown box to show my birth year. Fortunately, the program let me type it in. A 74-year old female should add to the variety of your demographics.

Also, I have used Ubuntu less than a year. The choices were 1-something years or not yet. I put in 1-x because I have used Ubuntu a few months. I joined the forum at the same time.

I am glad you are pleased with the responses. :)

[munky99999]

I love doing these thesis surveys :)

I tried to comment on every post. I think i skipped 1-2 of them.


i find ubuntuforums.org unusually polite.
It's the atmosphere. If everyone is polite. Generally you are more inclined to also be polite.

I'm a massive troll typically. Except when I come here. I tend to be polite. It's terrible. This situation needs to be fixed :D


but is probably indicative of many tech support forums. are you also doing a similar thing with, say, 4chan's /b/?
He would need to adjust his meter as that spread wouldnt particularly be applicable.

Though in context. You should do /g/

[aguafuertes]

I had to stop and try things a bit, when I couldn't get the dropdown box to show my birth year. Fortunately, the program let me type it in.

Glad to hear that the fallback worked for you!



A 74-year old female should add to the variety of your demographics.

Absolutely ;) I know at least one other person with the same demographic "features" - I bought an Ubuntu Dell Laptop for my aunt, she is 75 now - and has been a happy user for nearly two years.


Also, I have used Ubuntu less than a year. The choices were 1-something years or not yet. I put in 1-x because I have used Ubuntu a few months.

Yep, I know that the time intervals are not "waterproof", so that is perfectly ok.


I am glad you are pleased with the responses. :)

I'm really amazed by the feedback - thanks!

[aguafuertes]

I love doing these thesis surveys :)

Glad I could "help" :)


I tried to comment on every post. I think i skipped 1-2 of them.

That is great - skipping is also a valid option, but of course even then it is more helpful for me later if there is a short comment. So thanks!


I tend to be polite. It's terrible. This situation needs to be fixed :D

;) I'm pretty sure it won't be easy to convince the COC. But what you say is interesting: people tend to adopt to the different settings and communities they interact with. This would be worth a study on its own...

Thanks for participating!

[t0p]

The politeness shown on this site is an effect of the overbearing moderation. The mods enforce the CoC like it's been handed down by the FSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster) itself, and they dish out infractions liberally.

(@mods: I'm not complaining. Just trying to explain this site's polite atmosphere :p )

[chriskin]

The politeness shown on this site is an effect of the overbearing moderation. The mods enforce the CoC like it's been handed down by the FSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster) itself, and they dish out infractions liberally.

(@mods: I'm not complaining. Just trying to explain this site's polite atmosphere :p )

strangely enough, even though i have been said in messages one or two times that i was rude to someone, i was never given any infraction.


let me give a more logical explanation (or at least i think it is) about the politeness. people come here using a free OS and ask support from people that have no particular reason to give it. feeling in debt of the volunteering people, they talk politely. in time, they become members of the community (meaning that they don't just ask for things) and they keep the same politeness they had (or not?)

[longtom]

Treat people the way you want to be treated. Simple - really.

Nice survey. Good luck with your thesis.

[aguafuertes]

people come here using a free OS and ask support from people that have no particular reason to give it. feeling in debt of the volunteering people, they talk politely. in time, they become members of the community (meaning that they don't just ask for things) and they keep the same politeness they had (or not?)


Definitely a logical explanation - and yet there are often situations were people simply feel different about what is polite or rude. Which is one main source for misunderstandings.


Treat people the way you want to be treated. Simple - really.

A good rule of thumb - but ideally you should treat people the way they want to be treated - the problem is to know how they want to be treated ;)

That is where different percpectives come in - and what makes it so interesting to see how other people perceive the same communicative behavior.


Nice survey. Good luck with your thesis

Thanks!

[longtom]

D
A good rule of thumb - but ideally you should treat people the way they want to be treated - the problem is to know how they want to be treated ;)
Thanks!

Well - I am with you. However, I strongly believe that most people don't like to be treated badly, i.e. in a rude manner. I leave the exceptions to one side...

[Eisenwinter]

Great survey, I have just completed it.

[aguafuertes]

Just another quick update of the rough stats: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

The response has been lower as compared to first day, but that was to be expected. Personally I'm still stunned by the incredible high percentage of people completing the survey - 85%! Wohoo, you rock :)

I did not find time to compile other distributions, but with regard to countries it nice to see that Germany is catching up ;)

Thanks to all participants - and spread the word!

[Irihapeti]

Do participants need to be members of this forum? I know of one or two people who might be interested but haven't joined the forums.

[aguafuertes]

Do participants need to be members of this forum?

Ideally, yes ;)

Mainly because then I can be sure that they


have an idea about Linux
have an idea about Ubuntu
have an idea about Free Software
have some experience in interacting with the Ubuntu community


This is important, as the content of the survey is very specific to the Ubuntu community and its culture. I run beta tests with Non-Ubuntu/Linux people, and they often found it hard to rate posts because they did not really understand the content and/or the context.

But if you know people that are involved with Ubuntu as described above but simply do not have an account at ubuntuforums.org, that would be perfectly fine!


I know of one or two people who might be interested but haven't joined the forums.

Thank you very much for the consideration :) I hope didn't bore/scare you with my nitpicking and you have a better idea now what would be important for potential participants.

[Irihapeti]

Ideally, yes ;)

Mainly because then I can be sure that they


have an idea about Linux
have an idea about Ubuntu
have an idea about Free Software
have some experience in interacting with the Ubuntu community


This is important, as the content of the survey is very specific to the Ubuntu community and its culture. I run beta tests with Non-Ubuntu/Linux people, and they often found it hard to rate posts because they did not really understand the content and/or the context.

But if you know people that are involved with Ubuntu as described above but simply do not have an account at ubuntuforums.org, that would be perfectly fine!



Thank you very much for the consideration :) I hope didn't bore/scare you with my nitpicking and you have a better idea now what would be important for potential participants.

I think I get your point, and I hadn't thought of it that way. If I've got it right, knowing the forum culture is an important part of it. The people I had in mind don't spend much time reading the forums.

My son is doing a PhD and had been a bit concerned about getting enough respondents to a survey he's doing, which is what prompted me to ask.

[longtom]

Just another quick update of the rough stats: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

The response has been lower as compared to first day, but that was to be expected. Personally I'm still stunned by the incredible high percentage of people completing the survey - 85%! Wohoo, you rock :)

I did not find time to compile other distributions, but with regard to countries it nice to see that Germany is catching up ;)

Thanks to all participants - and spread the word!

What does your statistic show? Country of birth, mother tongue or the country of present residence?

[aguafuertes]

If I've got it right, knowing the forum culture is an important part of it

It is certainly the ideal case, as it allows you to take some things for granted - and to focus on the features that are at the core of your research question.


My son is doing a PhD and had been a bit concerned about getting enough respondents to a survey he's doing, which is what prompted me to ask.

Yes, that is often a big problem that we also see at our faculty. For a PhD project this is even worse, as the sample has to be larger. Did he find enough participants?

[aguafuertes]

What does your statistic show? Country of birth, mother tongue or the country of present residence?

Only Country of birth at the moment - I hope to find some time to put more general stats online. I cannot put any stats regarding to the research question online before the survey is closed and I did the analysis, however.

But I still find these general stats interesting, with regards to how diverse the Ubuntu community is.

[Irihapeti]

Yes, that is often a big problem that we also see at our faculty. For a PhD project this is even worse, as the sample has to be larger. Did he find enough participants?

I think he did, though I'd need to check. I do know that he still has some other options he can use if he needs to. If I sound a bit vague, it's because I don't know how much he wants made public at this stage.

[aguafuertes]

because I don't know how much he wants made public at this stage

Right, sometimes that has to be considered as well, especially for PhD research. Good luck to him!

[aguafuertes]

Hello everybody,

just a quick stats update, with more trivia: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

Total number is now 146, completion rate has dropped a little, but is still > 80%!

If you haven't taken it, here is the link to the survey and the screencast:

http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

:)

[Mazza558]

That was a surprisingly fun survey. Almost makes me feel like a moderator :)

[aguafuertes]

Almost makes me feel like a moderator :)

Jajaja, that makes me think: maybe "Want to be a moderator?" would have been a more attractive title for this thread ;)

Thanks for the feedback!

[Arthur_D]

It was a bit longer than I felt for, but it was fun. :)
I hope you get something useful out of this.

[Irihapeti]

Jajaja, that makes me think: maybe "Want to be a moderator?" would have been a more attractive title for this thread ;)


I think that moderator might be one of those jobs where no one notices much if you do it well, but you will definitely hear all about it if someone's upset.

[longtom]

Hello everybody,

just a quick stats update, with more trivia: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

Total number is now 146, completion rate has dropped a little, but is still > 80%!

If you haven't taken it, here is the link to the survey and the screencast:

http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

:)

I see you extended the stats a bit - nice job.

[aguafuertes]

It was a bit longer than I felt for, but it was fun.

Good feedback, thanks!


I think that moderator might be one of those jobs where no one notices much if you do it well, but you will definitely hear all about it if someone's upset.

I think so as well, especially after reading some of the complaint threads. It would be great if the survey results could show how different perceptions of the same communicative behavior can be - and thus raise some awareness for the difficult decisions that moderators have to make.


I see you extended the stats a bit - nice job.

Thanks! The "real" stats have to wait until the survey is closed and I have my analytic framework ready, but I find these demographic stats interesting as well.

[bapoumba]

Forgot to say I took the survey a couple days ago :)

[joseph_e2]

Ironically, my first post here on UF is a reply to a survey. I've been tinkering with Ubuntu, the first time I've ever used Linux, for a couple of months now and generally like it. This forum has been a huge help, but I was able to search and figure out most things without starting any threads. I hope eventually to be able to contribute, but that may be a long way off. Until then, thanks for a great resource!

[Sealbhach]

Done.

Thanks for the stats, very interesting.

.

[aguafuertes]

Forgot to say I took the survey a couple days ago :)

Cool! :)


Ironically, my first post here on UF is a reply to a survey

Good for me ;) In the stats I found (so far) a high percentage of relatively new users - it will be interesting to see if perceptions vary significantly in comparison to veteran users.


I hope eventually to be able to contribute, but that may be a long way off. Until then, thanks for a great resource!

That is something that I myself (not being associated with ubuntuforums.org) can only agree to.


Done. Thanks for the stats, very interesting.

Thanks! Currently trying to put the different occupations in a format for another interesting statistic. Anyone knows an english standard cluster for categorizing occupations (e.g. Education, IT, Manufacturing)? Not too complex, but something that would allow for a more compressed view. Right now I have > 60 different occupations...

[aguafuertes]

I updated the stat once again: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

This time I added two tag clouds, displaying the different occupations of the community members that participated. The first tag cloud shows the raw job descriptions that were entered - the second one is a (feeble) attempt to cluster them into job sectors.

I found the job classifications on a website, but I don't think it really fits the data very well - so if anyone knows of better criteria for clustering the raw occupation data, I'd be very happy to apply them!

We are now close to 200 participants (in 5 days!), which is amazing. And completion rate is still at 80% :) Thanks a lot to all participants!!

And if you have not yet participated, it'd be great if you had 15-20 minutes to spare and take the survey:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Thanks!

[SiHa]

Just completed the survey, and I have to say I find it quite funny that people can be so rude when asking for help!

[munky99999]

I think that moderator might be one of those jobs where no one notices much if you do it well, but you will definitely hear all about it if someone's upset.
That's every job.

Nobody notices what you do until you dont do it.

[munky99999]

Just completed the survey, and I have to say I find it quite funny that people can be so rude when asking for help!

The only that got me yesturday. Not ubuntu specific but rather eve online the mmog I play.

Someone came to the channel i was in. Asking for some help. I was going to help him... he just had to wait a few mins for me to get to do it. I then used the tools to find out what the circumstances are surrounding the situation. I then complimented out of respect for the situation he was in. He then turned around and started to shittalk me basically. He was there for help; i compliment him; he misunderstands the compliment; which given the nature, worse case scenario u ought to be like "meh whatever" but he started rudely attacking me. So I showed him the door.

[aguafuertes]

He was there for help; i compliment him; he misunderstands the compliment; which given the nature, worse case scenario

Yep, that is worst case, when you think you communicated your intention clearly but then realize that the addresee completely took it the other way. Happens quite often, i think, especially in international settings.

[aguafuertes]

Another stats update: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

Now there have been > 200 participants, 220 to be exact :)

The completion rate is sinking, unfortunately - and I'm really curious for the reasons. I think it started off with 86% completion rate for the first 100 participants and has dropped nearly 10% for the second 100. Feedback or ideas are appreciated, as I did not change anything on the survey...

I finally added the age groups to the stats - no big surprises here, although I'm happy to see that the > 45 years group makes up more than 10%.

For those wo did not yet participate, it'd be great if you had 15-20 minutes to spare and take the survey:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

If you take the survey, please complete - otherwise I cannot use your results. Thanks for participating!

[Irihapeti]

The completion rate is sinking, unfortunately - and I'm really curious for the reasons. I think it started off with 86% completion rate for the first 100 participants and has dropped nearly 10% for the second 100. Feedback or ideas are appreciated, as I did not change anything on the survey...



Might it be that the earlier respondents were the most motivated towards doing the survey? I.e. the most motivated people act promptly, and once you have had their responses you are left with those - in general - who are less motivated?

How close are you to getting the number of responses you need?

[AvalonSpirit]

I just took your survey, hope it helps.

something i have noticed with spanish speakers, is that sometimes when literal translations are used they can seem rather rude in english the way they are frased.

good luck

[BackwardsDown]

Completed the survey. Good luck!

[SiHa]

Might it be that the earlier respondents were the most motivated towards doing the survey? I.e. the most motivated people act promptly, and once you have had their responses you are left with those - in general - who are less motivated?


Or maybe the initial flurry was from those that hang around here often, and the trickle-feed later on was form those who (like me) just drop in occasionally. I spend most of my time over on the Mythbuntu forum.

Less motivated my ar$e.

(None taken btw...)

[aguafuertes]

Might it be that the earlier respondents were the most motivated towards doing the survey?

Interesting thought - even though SiHa strongly disagrees


Less motivated my ar$e.

:)


How close are you to getting the number of responses you need?

Originally I was aiming at 300 completed surveys - right now I have 175.

I'm very happy with the number of responses I got so far and could work with them already - but there more I get, the better for the statistics. I'll keep the survey online for one more week, hopefully i'll get closer to that goal.

[aguafuertes]

I just took your survey, hope it helps.

Thanks!


something i have noticed with spanish speakers, is that sometimes when literal translations are used they can seem rather rude in english the way they are frased.

Ah yes, literal translations - they also make us Germans sound more impolite than we really are ;)

Do you have a specific example in mind? To me, reading spanish forums, it seems that the tone in general is more "playful".


Completed the survey. Good luck!
Thanks :)

[koleoptero]

Interesting survey. Some very rude replies to simple questions, and some polite answers to rude questions. We are all nuts, aren't we?

Good luck with the survey.

[earthpigg]

took the survey & enjoyed it. look forward to seeing the results.

please post them in this thread, or post a link to them in this thread... for us folks that only keep track of threads by using forum search to search for all threads we have posted in.


+1 for requesting the survey software be released as Free Software.


changing the avatars, handles, and post count would have tainted the results. in one case, i rated a post as 'very rude' because they had a post count of 1 and told someone they would not help them.

this Ubuntuforums.org user's first post in any of the support forums, and it was to tell someone they where refusing to help?

or

someone made a new account just to refuse to help someone else?

either way, screw that person. (feel free to rate this post as 'a bit rude' because i said that :D )



and i rated someone more polite than i otherwise would have because they had a smiley/happy avatar of some critter. that's honestly how my brain works, so i don't think that answer would be considered 'tainted' results.

[earthpigg]

I think it started off with 86% completion rate for the first 100 participants and has dropped nearly 10% for the second 100. Feedback or ideas are appreciated, as I did not change anything on the survey...

im part of that second or third 100 group.

me - and presumably people like me - habitually ignore all ads, announcements, e-mails from people they don't recognize, etc.

the fact that i saw this thread at all -- being that it was in the 'announcements' section -- was a complete fluke.

once it is unstickied, i predict another surge.


also:

Beans: 1

one post in the support forums. nothing wrong with that, but...

when someone changes their sig, it applies retroactively to previous posts they have made.

ubuntuforums.org support threads show up all over the damn place on google.

ask people with a couple thousand beans to include your survey in their signature, and you will get survey results for years to come from people google-searching an ubuntu problem, reading through the threads, and maybe seeing your survey linked in someone's signature.

the poor man's google adsense.

google presence does amazing things.

i have found that my frequent posts in the support forums, combined with linking to my own project in my sig, has gotten me all sorts of unexpected PR, support, and feedback for my project.

[AvalonSpirit]

Ah yes, literal translations - they also make us Germans sound more impolite than we really are ;)

Do you have a specific example in mind? To me, reading spanish forums, it seems that the tone in general is more "playful".
Thanks :)

hmmm... not many examples come to mind now, but a simple one: when asking for help
"quisiera que alguien me ayudara" meaning "I would like someone to help me" in a polite "tone" is sometimes translated to "I want help"

Another thing is that when you use "angry" language and caps in spanish it can be in a, as you said, "playful" manner and when the same is done in english, the humour is lost on most english speaking readers which can interpret it as rude.

[starcannon]

Cool survey; please post the results/paper/what ever you do with the data, I'd be curious to see how it turns out.

GL and HF
~starcannon

[Irihapeti]

hmmm... not many examples come to mind now, but a simple one: when asking for help
"quisiera que alguien me ayudara" meaning "I would like someone to help me" in a polite "tone" is sometimes translated to "I want help"

Another thing is that when you use "angry" language and caps in spanish it can be in a, as you said, "playful" manner and when the same is done in english, the humour is lost on most english speaking readers which can interpret it as rude.

It's not confined to translating between languages. Even between two people whose first language is English, humour and playfulness can be misunderstood when communicating online.

http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/silverman/2009/07/that-funny-email-no-ones-laugh.html?cm_re=homepage-061609-_-body-middle-tert-_-voices

Recently, I had a couple of personal experiences of this, on these forums, and realised that I wasn't getting the kind of responses I wanted. Now I have a better idea why I needed to change what I was doing.

[SiHa]

Most of the time, I reread any electronic communication, beore hitting 'send' or 'post', as I have also found out, to my cost, of the offence one can inadvertently cause by the lack of body language / expression.

This is especially important when communicating with someone who doesn't know me or my sense of humour.

Regarding the language issue, I work in a company with a large number of Dutch employees, and I've found that written humour is often lost on them, they just take you at face value. They also know this to be true, I was in an IM message with one a few weks ago, he made a pun, and said 'See, I am learning to be English!'

[aguafuertes]

Interesting survey. Some very rude replies to simple questions, and some polite answers to rude questions. We are all nuts, aren't we?

Thanks! My summary would be more like "we are all different", but I know what you mean :D

[aguafuertes]

took the survey & enjoyed it. look forward to seeing the results.

please post them in this thread, or post a link to them in this thread... for us folks that only keep track of threads by using forum search to search for all threads we have posted in.

Cool, thanks! And yes, that is the plan, using this thread to keep everything related to the survey together.


+1 for requesting the survey software be released as Free Software.

Will happen, as soon as time permits. Really glad you like it, but as I said before: it is just a small Django app by a python newbie for one special use case, so don't expect too much ;)



changing the avatars, handles, and post count would have tainted the results. in one case, i rated a post as 'very rude' because they had a post count of 1 and told someone they would not help them. [...]
and i rated someone more polite than i otherwise would have because they had a smiley/happy avatar of some critter. that's honestly how my brain works, so i don't think that answer would be considered 'tainted' results.

Interesting - and yes, that is exactly why I wanted to keep as much context as possible. Our perceptions depend on many details. Did you also explain this in the comments of the respective post?

Thanks for the feedback!

[aguafuertes]

ask people with a couple thousand beans to include your survey in their signature, and you will get survey results for years to come from people google-searching an ubuntu problem, reading through the threads, and maybe seeing your survey linked in someone's signature.

the poor man's google adsense.

That is a brilliant idea, should have thought of that before! It does not "spam" people and is nonetheless very present. Right now it is probably a bit late for doing this - I don't know many people here and the survey is open only one more week.

But if any of you reading this would put the link to this thread in their signature, there's nothing I could do (meaning it would be great!) :)

[chriskin]

i'm in :) check my sig in some seconds

eh, before i do it
should i link the thread or the survey itself?

[aguafuertes]

hmmm... not many examples come to mind now, but a simple one: when asking for help
"quisiera que alguien me ayudara" meaning "I would like someone to help me" in a polite "tone" is sometimes translated to "I want help"

I see - and yes, in this case I would even translate the example to "I wish someone could help me" to translate (my) perceived level of "politeness". Interesting :)

[aguafuertes]

i'm in :) check my sig in some seconds

eh, before i do it
should i link the thread or the survey itself?

:D great, thanks! The link to the thread would be better, so that people have some context, I think.

[aguafuertes]

Cool survey; please post the results/paper/what ever you do with the data, I'd be curious to see how it turns out.

Thanks, will definitely do that. I'm curious as well ;)

[aguafuertes]

It's not confined to translating between languages. Even between two people whose first language is English, humour and playfulness can be misunderstood when communicating online.

True - even in German conversation I`ve ended up misunderstanding someone oder being misunderstood. And in electronic discourse it is worse, as the interlocutors are often unknown and all you can do is rely on the text.


Recently, I had a couple of personal experiences of this, on these forums, and realised that I wasn't getting the kind of responses I wanted. Now I have a better idea why I needed to change what I was doing.

The thing is that, while "playing it safe" often prevents one from being misunderstood, it also keeps the communication at a more conventionalized/distant level - which is also not always what one might want. Depending on the situation not an easy choice.

[aguafuertes]

Most of the time, I reread any electronic communication, beore hitting 'send' or 'post', as I have also found out, to my cost, of the offence one can inadvertently cause by the lack of body language / expression.

Same here, especially when I communicating in an international, public setting.


he made a pun, and said 'See, I am learning to be English!'

I'm desperatly waiting for the day when finally someone will associate "being funny" with being German :D

[longtom]

Same here, especially when I communicating in an international, public setting.



I'm desperately waiting for the day when finally someone will associate "being funny" with being German :D

This could be a long wait... but just shows you how preconceptions rule us. Having said that, Germans do have humour - it's just not easy accessible for non Germans.:P

Take my word for it - I am one of them. However - I always was a big fan of Monty Python and that kind of humour. I was therefore perceived of "not being funny" in most German settings apart from a small, like minded group.

[aguafuertes]

This could be a long wait... Germans do have humour - it's just not easy accessible for non Germans

Hehe, I know, but one day... :p

[praveesh]

I couldn't find my mother tongue. How can I participate in the survey?

[aguafuertes]

I couldn't find my mother tongue. How can I participate in the survey?

That is unfortunate, sorry! What is your mother tongue?

I took an already existing list from a python module, which looked fairly complete to me. But I think I can add your mother tongue to this if you have a look at this list and tell me which ISO 639-1 code is the correct one: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php

Thanks!

[Shpongle]

hey man interesting survey, it'll be nice to see the results. best of luck with the thesis. Il be watching the postbox ;-)

[aguafuertes]

hey man interesting survey, it'll be nice to see the results. best of luck with the thesis. Il be watching the postbox ;-)

Thanks! Just watch this thread ;)

[praveesh]

That is unfortunate, sorry! What is your mother tongue?

I took an already existing list from a python module, which looked fairly complete to me. But I think I can add your mother tongue to this if you have a look at this list and tell me which ISO 639-1 code is the correct one: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php

Thanks!

My mother tongue is malayalam. The iso 639-1 code is ml .


Malayalam is an Indian language and is included by default in the Ubuntu installation .

Thanks .

[aesis05401]

That is unfortunate, sorry! What is your mother tongue?

I took an already existing list from a python module, which looked fairly complete to me. But I think I can add your mother tongue to this if you have a look at this list and tell me which ISO 639-1 code is the correct one: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php

Thanks!

For politeness sake you might include an option for cryptolects as a mother-tongue. It is bad enough that distinct languages with unique conventions and demonstrable history are relegated to cryptolect status in the first place by academia... But that's all I will say on that subject ;)

Nice survey.

[lisati]

Interesting survey..... most of the posts I didn't have a problem with.
Good luck collating the results - along with the others who have expressed an interest I'll be watching!

[aguafuertes]

My mother tongue is malayalam. The iso 639-1 code is ml .

Malayalam is an Indian language and is included by default in the Ubuntu installation .

Thanks .

Thanks for the feedback, I included Malayalam in the survey! Great to see how many different languages there are spoken in the community :)

[aguafuertes]

For politeness sake you might include an option for cryptolects as a mother-tongue.

If someone convincingly asks for this, I'd actually do so - no need to limit people's identities in my own survey ;)


Nice survey.
Thanks!

[aguafuertes]

Interesting survey..... most of the posts I didn't have a problem with.
Good luck collating the results - along with the others who have expressed an interest I'll be watching!

Thanks! Really hope that I manage to compile meaningful results - but the responses so far have been great, so chances are quite good :)

[aguafuertes]

Just a very quick update, as always here: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

Right now there have been 275 particpants, with 214 of them completing the survey. It is great to see that people still come by :)

So if you have not yet participated, your help is really appreciated:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Just follow the link, mark and comment the single posts and complete the survey - that's all ;)

Thanks to all participant so far! Your results are looking very interesting, especially your comments on the posts!

[earthpigg]

Just a very quick update, as always here: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

im curious:

you also posted this on the german ubuntu forum, no?

[aguafuertes]

you also posted this on the german ubuntu forum, no?

Yes, on ubuntuusers.de. There are actually 2 big german forums (and a smaller one, I think), but this is the one I've been active on since 2005.

It is interesting, though of course not unexpected, that, the stronger the local community, the less likely its members are to roam the international forums. To give you an idea, ubuntuusers.de has > 110.000 members, ubuntu-fr.org > 130.000. If my french was better, I'd also have posted on the french forum ;)

[NCLI]

Maybe you could ask one of our French members to do it for you?

[aguafuertes]

Maybe you could ask one of our French members to do it for you?

I thought about it, and if this was a PhD thesis, I probably would. But for my M.A. thesis I should be fine this way.

Also I want to stay responsive on the threads I openend - this would be very time-consuming in a language I don't speak well ;)

[aguafuertes]

Another quick stats update: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

With 294 participants, the 300 goal is getting close. And with 224 participants who completed the survey, there is a good chance to reach 250 - which would be amazing, especially within 2 weeks :)

Thanks to everybody who participated!

And if you have not yet participated, your help is always appreciated:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Just follow the link, mark and comment the single posts and complete the survey - that's all ;)

[Irihapeti]

Umm the last link you posted gave me a 404.

[earthpigg]

Umm the last link you posted gave me a 404.

confirmed.

OP: you copy/pasted the link from your other post in the forum, so it is pointing us to a URL with "..." in it instead of the proper address.

[aguafuertes]

the last link you posted gave me a 404.

Oh, I see - now fixed. Thanks for reporting!


you copy/pasted the link from your other post in the forum, so it is pointing us to a URL with "..." in it instead of the proper address.

Yep, that is exactly what happened ;)

[garba]

nice survey, i enojoyed filling it up, good luck with your work ^^

[moxfyre]

Hi everybody,

I'm currently writing my thesis in linguistics, on the perception of language use in online communities. Being a long-time Ubuntu user myself, I decided to base my empirical research on the huge and active community that ubuntuforums.org represents.

...

More background

My name is Gregor, I'm from Germany, where I study English Linguistics at Bonn University (http://www.linguistics.uni-bonn.de/). You can find my - currently inactive - blog here: http://blog.openinformation.org/index-en.html

I've presented this project to the ubuntuforums.org council to make sure that it is in accordance with the Code of Conduct and in general acceptable for the ubuntuforums.org community. Guys, thanks for your feedback and support!

If you have any questions, just write a post in this thread and ask - I'll be happy to respond.

Thanks a lot for your interest and participation!
Gregor

Very cool! I have a Bachelor's Degree in linguistics as well, and have always been interested in this kind of sociolinguistic research.

Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

[JDShu]

By the way, this is probably unimportant to the study, but in the "Mother Tongue" section, why did you put "Traditional Chinese?" I found it a little confusing.

Traditional Chinese is a form of written Chinese as opposed to Simplified Chinese. Mother tongue implies a spoken language which in China is quite diverse, although you can get away with just saying "Chinese". If you wanted to be more specific, you could say Chinese(Mandarin), Chinese(Cantonese), and Chinese(Other), which is quite common. "Traditional Chinese" doesn't really make sense.

[sanderella]

Hope to see your results and interpretation published. :KS

[aguafuertes]

nice survey, i enojoyed filling it up, good luck with your work ^^


Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

Thanks :)


Traditional Chinese is a form of written Chinese as opposed to Simplified Chinese. Mother tongue implies a spoken language which in China is quite diverse, although you can get away with just saying "Chinese". If you wanted to be more specific, you could say Chinese(Mandarin), Chinese(Cantonese), and Chinese(Other), which is quite common. "Traditional Chinese" doesn't really make sense.

Thanks for the explanation, I did not know that. I took the language list from a python module that seemed fairly comprehensive to me - but I already added Malayalam to the list, as one participant was missing it.

So far there were already two participants that chose "Traditional Chinese" as their mother tongue - that's why I probably won't change the options now, with the survey running until the end of September.


Hope to see your results and interpretation published

I will post any updates on this thread :)

[texpat]

Hi,

I just took your survey, too.

Btw, I spent a few semesters at Bonn uni. But that was in another life. I wonder what's become of that city after everyone (exaggeration intended ;-) ) moved off to Berlin.

Good luck and all the best.

[dagoth_pie]

Thanks! My summary would be more like "we are all different", but I know what you mean :D

Yes, you're 100% unique, just like everyone else...


Did the survey, looked interesting, right afterwards, I thought about how out of place my "meatworker" occupation will look in with all the IT and Admin staff... :lolflag:

[Shibblet]

I did the survey and gave an opinion on every single question.

It really made me think about the way I post.

Good survey!

[aguafuertes]

So, after some days with the flu I'm finally getting back on track.

First of all, the obligatory update of the demographic stats: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

There are now 266 completely filled out surveys :) I plan to run the survey until the end of September, so maybe there will be even 300 or more complete surveys by then, which would be even more awesome!

So if you are interested, you can still participate:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Just follow the link, mark and comment the single posts and complete the survey - that's all :)

Thanks for your help!

[aguafuertes]

I wonder what's become of that city after everyone (exaggeration intended) moved off to Berlin.

Hehe, well, they managed to strike some sweet deals back then - there are still parts of the public administration around, the former state-owned companies DP-DHL (Deutsche Post and DHL) and Deutsche Telekom have their headquarters here, and a lot of money has flown in a "structural compensation fund". Politics... Really curious if you'd notice the difference, actually.


I thought about how out of place my "meatworker" occupation will look in with all the IT and Admin staff..

I looked at the stats, but participant's occupations are so diverse that I had to use the browser search - so not really out of place, I'm afraid ;)


It really made me think about the way I post. Good survey!

Thanks! It's the same for me, all the responses and especially the comments make me think how many different views and reasonings there are on exactly the same situation.

I hope to come up with a good way to show something of that diversity in perception online.

[Irihapeti]

Thanks! It's the same for me, all the responses and especially the comments make me think how many different views and reasonings there are on exactly the same situation.

I hope to come up with a good way to show something of that diversity in perception online.

I find it fascinating how so many people find it "obvious" what another poster meant, and start an argument based on that certainty. They may be close to the mark about the original poster's meaning, or they may be miles off. So often it doesn't even cross their minds that they might be wrong. (Speaking from past personal experience here. :oops:)

I've learned that not jumping to conclusions about other people's motives, and being more thoughtful about how I communicate, have made life a lot more fun than it used to be. Fewer angry people around, for one thing :)

That may not be the original reason why you did this research, but it looks as though some other people might be taking this message from it. Which sounds like a wonderful side-effect to me.

[montres]

Hi there!
I started filling out the survey but I got a bit mixed up and stopped it.This is why I got confused:
You have five possible ratings about the politeness of a post the middle one being "perfectly appropriate". Does this mean that if I rate a post as "very polite", I think that it shouldn't being so polite? Or should I translate the word "appropriate" as "average"?

Sorry about not finishing the survey now. If you get me straight on the issue above, I promise to do it soon. I just want to understand the questions correctly so that my answers might be useful.

[aguafuertes]

I find it fascinating how so many people find it "obvious" what another poster meant, and start an argument based on that certainty. They may be close to the mark about the original poster's meaning, or they may be miles off.

Yes, for me that is also the most interesting phenomena: a speaker has a certain intention/attitude that he tries to communicate, using language. He can do it as carefully as he might, the success still depends on the hearer who interprets the message, trying to "decode" the intention/attitude. Ideally, intention and interpretation match, but often enough they don't - and then it can get complicated.


I've learned that not jumping to conclusions about other people's motives, and being more thoughtful about how I communicate, have made life a lot more fun than it used to be. Fewer angry people around, for one thing :)
Same here - found myself thinking often enough over Emails I was writing or had received, trying to make clear what I want to say or to decipher what was meant by the writer ;)


That may not be the original reason why you did this research, but it looks as though some other people might be taking this message from it.
It is not the original reason for the research, but the reason why I wanted to do it on ubuntuforums.org. Free Software communities essentially depend on intercultural communication, with contributors from all over the world. And I think great part of Ubuntu's success stems from the fact that, from the beginning, "social excellence" was regarded as important as technical excellence. Which, in 2004, was something new in the Distro-World, I guess.



Which sounds like a wonderful side-effect to me.

Would be cool if there was - I think it is pretty important to keep this "understanding spirit" in a growing community, and if this small survey can help a little bit to show how different we all see the world, that'd be great :)

[lisati]

Yes, for me that is also the most interesting phenomena: a speaker has a certain intention/attitude that he tries to communicate, using language. He can do it as carefully as he might, the success still depends on the hearer who interprets the message, trying to "decode" the intention/attitude. Ideally, intention and interpretation match, but often enough they don't - and then it can get complicated.


That is a good observation.

In face-to-face conversations, we have extra clues, such as body language, to help us "decode" intent and meaning. When you add other factos as well (e.g. I tend to be literal minded) it can get complicated trying to figure things out.

Yes, effective communication is a rich subject.

[aguafuertes]

Hi there!
I started filling out the survey but I got a bit mixed up and stopped it.This is why I got confused:
You have five possible ratings about the politeness of a post the middle one being "perfectly appropriate". Does this mean that if I rate a post as "very polite", I think that it shouldn't being so polite? Or should I translate the word "appropriate" as "average"?

Thanks for the feedback! And yes, the category labels are not ideal - but the best I could come up with without having to write a long introduction.

"Very polite" is not meant to be negative - it does not mean that you think the post is too polite.

"Perfectly appropriate" is neutral - it means that you think that, in the current situation, the post is perfectly normal, nothing "special", positive or negative, about it. I'm not sure if "average" would be the right translation, though.


Sorry about not finishing the survey now. If you get me straight on the issue above, I promise to do it soon. I just want to understand the questions correctly so that my answers might be useful.

Really glad you asked instead of "just" filling it out :) Hopefully I could make it clearer how the categories are meant - I just realized again how hard it is to describe these things clearly.

Thanks for participating!

[aguafuertes]

In face-to-face conversations, we have extra clues, such as body language, to help us "decode" intent and meaning.

Right, this is all missing in an Internet forum, where all we have is text. Ok, there are emoticons, but still ;)

[Irihapeti]

I notice that when I'm reading emails or posts, I tend to imagine the tone of voice that the poster would be using. Of course, I don't know what the poster would sound like, so I have to make something up. If the post seems hostile to me, then I'm likely to imagine the sarcastic tones of one of my parents. That then colours the meaning I take from it.

And it's all got little to do with how I would be hearing the poster if he/she were in the same room. No wonder misunderstanding arises!

[montres]

Finished! Hope it helps.

[aguafuertes]

Finished! Hope it helps.

Great, thanks!

[DouglasAWh]

I just wondered if it was because you perceived that there were more american users here.

Personally, of course, being English, imo the English used here is correct and everyone else is just being different :lol:

IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olf-ObGcNt8

;)

[keiichidono]

You release that source code yet? /kick

[aguafuertes]

IN AMERICA WE SPEAK AMERICAN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olf-ObGcNt8

;)

LOL - never thought that one could put that much "America" in 5 minutes.


You release that source code yet?

Nope, still tied up in my basement ;)

[Flimm]

Interesting that none of the posts (in the survey) were moderated.

[bapoumba]

Interesting that none of the posts (in the survey) were moderated.
Well, I'm not sure how to answer this.

First, some time ago, aguafuertes asked for an access to jail to review threads that were removed for language and communications problems. It took a long time for us to finally deny jail access, for obvious reasons. In particular, threads in jail are directly confrontational, most of them infracted, and that would breach the members privacy regarding infractions and/or threads that are better gone and forgotten.
aguafuertes redesigned his proposal and we were all ok with it.

He could choose any thread from the public area. No feedback or "censorship" from us whatsoever.

I'm sure there are many threads/posts here that go below the radar, because we cannot read everything and they did not get reported. Such is life.

imho, the threads from the survey did not deserve any staff action and I did not think one minute about going back and cleaning them. But I'm mostly of the mellow kind :)

[aguafuertes]

Interesting that none of the posts (in the survey) were moderated.

bapoumba already explained how the threads were chosen (thanks!), and I'm actually quite happy that I had to redesign my proposal. I believe that the great majority of interactions, in which we'd label someone as "rude", is not of the extreme kind. I rather believe that in most cases, there are little details that make us perceive something as rude. And I definitely believe that in a international setting like ubuntuforums.org, these details will be "amplified", as many people don't use their mother tongue.

This is what makes the moderator job so hard - people with different perceptions communicating. I want to show how different many posts can be perceived, even if the user had only one intention. And in most of these cases, I believe, being rude is not intentional.


imho, the threads from the survey did not deserve any staff action.

I agree - from my point of view these threads are examples of miscommunication, but not of escalation. If moderators had to intervene in any thread where people have misunderstandings, it would be an impossible job. It is already tough arbitrating the extreme cases, where people with different understanding of humor, sarcasm and politeness each may have their valid points. But in these cases, the communication simply "died" without somebody personally affected - people walked away.


and I did not think one minute about going back and cleaning them.

Yep, why stir up somethig that did not end in conflict. Actually I was a bit afraid that this survey might have this effect, but so far responses have been only positive, even from someone whose post is actually in the survey.


I'm mostly of the mellow kind

Sounds like a good informal conclusion: we all should be more mellow :D

[aguafuertes]

Wow - last night the number of participants who completed the survey really broke the 300 barrier! This community is amazing :)

The stats: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

I've decided to run the survey 4 days longer, until September 30, so if you are interested and have not taken it yet, here are the links:

Survey: http://attitude.openinformation.org/survey/start/
Screencast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-T64MT5Gp8

Just rate, mark and comment the single posts and complete the survey - that's all ;)

Thanks to all participants!

[Flimm]

First, some time ago, aguafuertes asked for an access to jail to review threads that were removed for language and communications problems. It took a long time for us to finally deny jail access, for obvious reasons. In particular, threads in jail are directly confrontational, most of them infracted, and that would breach the members privacy regarding infractions and/or threads that are better gone and forgotten.
aguafuertes redesigned his proposal and we were all ok with it.

He could choose any thread from the public area. No feedback or "censorship" from us whatsoever.Fair enough. I would have included moderated posts in the survey, but I see your reasoning now and accept the decision.

[pwnst*r]

done and done!

[bruno9779]

I'd be really interested in knowing why you want to know how long I've lived in the US but not in any other countries of the world.

Many, if not most Europeans think that US citizens are much more rude than any other english speakers.

The local slangs also contribute to a different perception of rudeness and coolness.

PS: I don't want to insult anyone, this is a clear and quite common perception we get by this side of the atlantic ocean.

[pwnst*r]

Many, if not most Europeans think that US citizens are much more rude than any other english speakers.



it's true.

[lisati]

The local slangs also contribute to a different perception of rudeness and coolness.


+1: There are other threads which mention differences in idiom and how it can contribute to misunderstanding.

[Evelien]

I found this just in time to be able to take part.
Nice survey and interesting subject.
It was a pleasure to fill it in.

[aguafuertes]

done and done!

Great, thanks!


There are other threads which mention differences in idiom and how it can contribute to misunderstanding.

Do you have a link, by any chance? Would be an interesting read.


Nice survey and interesting subject.

Thanks :)

[aguafuertes]

I just closed the survey - many many thanks to all participants!!

I'll update the stats soon, as well as the results of the book raffle. And of course the results, when I have them ;)

Thanks again so far - have a good night/day/morning!

[bapoumba]

I just closed the survey - many many thanks to all participants!!

I'll update the stats soon, as well as the results of the book raffle. And of course the results, when I have them ;)

Thanks again so far - have a good night/day/morning!

Thanks to you :)
I've unstuck the thread.

[aguafuertes]

Just updated the final stats: http://blog.openinformation.org/attitude-static/attitude-static.html

And they are impressive: 333 participants completed the survey, and the response rate was 76%! I again have to say a big "thank you" to this community, that is awesome :)


I've unstuck the thread.

Thanks! Just wanted to inform you guys, but as always you are faster than me ;)

Thanks for the support!

[aguafuertes]

Hi everybody,

just a quick update on everything ;)

I handed in the thesis on Monday - thanks again to everybody who participated and/or commented - that was amazing!! Normally it takes 4-6 weeks until it gets graded. In the meanwhile, no results can be published, but after that, I'd be glad to provide a nice way to browse the results!

As data for the main analysis in the thesis, I did only take the questionnaire from US and German participants, for statistical/demographic reasons. Those were the only groups with more than 50 people, which made my interpretations more solid. I want to find a good way to publish all of the results, however, and am currently looking into that. So every questionnaire will be used in the end and hopefully provide an even more diverse picture.

As for the book raffle, I'll do that pretty soon. Have to think of a nice way to come up with randomness :D

Thanks again!
Gregor