What is the big deal, anyway?

[kgee]

Okay, before I go off on a small rant, I'd like to give a little background info so everyone knows where I'm coming from.

I'm no genious. I'm a seventeen year old highschool senior. I have 9 years experience with Windows, and 3 weeks experience with Linux. My computer skills' extent is occasionally confusing my computer teacher by using the command prompt to remote shutdown his computer. (He still tells the IT guy he has a virus *snicker*)

Anywho, I dont understand why there are so many people coming by these forums telling everyone how unusable ubuntu is. To get ubuntu set up for everyday use, the most nerve racking part for any windows user (imho) is the install. Even then, I looked it up online, read plenty of useful posts on these forums, Installed it about 8 different ways before learning exactly what I wanted. From there it was easy. After that (hardware compatibility permitting) I found ubuntu worked right out of the box... or disk... or whatever you happen to have it in.

In fact, since I have set up an Ubuntu/XP dual boot, I noticed that Ubuntu had found my network and put me online without me even setting it up manually. XP won't even recognise that I have a router plugged in without going through some serious troubleshooters. (which, btw, are seriously lacking in content.)

In all honesty, I must say that installing new programs is a bit of a leap from Windows, but I will adapt just like anyone with any amount of patience will.

So there's my story. 3 weeks and the only thing I use windows for is games and extra devices that dont have linux drivers (like my digital camera, or crazy high tech universal remote).

Now why am I seeing so many people who can't accomplish this in 3 months let alone 3 weeks? Maybe it is just because I love the challenge, while others can't be bothered.

[fuscia]

i don't get it either. i didn't even bother with the preparation you put in and i still didn't find the installation difficult at all. it was easier than the windows installs i've done.


I'm no genious.

awesome!

[aysiu]

In answer to your questions:

1. If you know how to shut down someone else's computer remotely from the command-line, you're hardly the judge of what should be easy or difficult for others. You're wondering out of intermediate user and into expert user.

2. Most people haven't installed an operating system from scratch.

3. Some people experience a lot of difficulty because their hardware isn't Linux compatible. They don't do the research to find out what's compatible and then complain when Ubuntu doesn't recognize everything right away. Some people don't even try out the live CD.

[kgee]

In answer to your questions:

1. If you know how to shut down someone else's computer remotely from the command-line, you're hardly the judge of what should be easy or difficult for others. You're wondering out of intermediate user and into expert user.

2. Most people haven't installed an operating system from scratch.

3. Some people experience a lot of difficulty because their hardware isn't Linux compatible. They don't do the research to find out what's compatible and then complain when Ubuntu doesn't recognize everything right away. Some people don't even try out the live CD.


aaah, a good old ID ten T error then? lol

[raublekick]

A lot of it has to do with time. As a Computer Science student, I have a lot of work to do, but tinkering around and learning new things with computers is interesting and comes naturally to me. I spent a weekend reformatting/partitioning my hard drives, re-installing XP, installing Ubuntu, and getting it set up pretty good. Now, I didn't have to go through all of that, but I wanted both OSes on the same drive and needed to do some work to get it that way.

On top of that, you need to learn a lot of new ways of doing things. Now that I have spent the time to learn these things, and know where to look for help, Linux has become a breeze for me. I discover little tricks around every corner.

The big thing, though, is that I spent time learning it, because I could. Not everyone can spend that much time, and although their reasoning is a little off kilter, that's a huge part of why people don't stick with it.

[Derek Djons]

I'm no analist or consultant but from everydays experience with people I often see a trend moving, rizing and dissapearing.

From my point of view (based on conversations with people) Linux is being infiltrated with more Windows Users as ever. But I'm not talking about the Windows Users such as Kgee or Windows Users who happily report here that they got Ubuntu all fired up!

More and more Windows n00bs (in my post meaning: "People who even don't understand Windows on a fair level") have heared about Ubuntu. Logical, since it's the most pleasant 'Out Of The Box' experience with the same (hardcore) CLI / customizing ability as other distro. Already I had a lot of people (several a week) coming down to the shop I work at to talk about Apple and switching to Linux. When remaining at a normal level (excluding difficult language and nerdtalk) I can immediately tell they don't know jack (when they bring stuff up like this):

* Is not that good after all, I still can't play my game you know.
* I doubt it will grow any bigger, I can't do anyting on it rather browsing and emailing.
* Packetmanger?! what is that?
* I'm using ... ummm, uhmmm, oh how does it being called... ummm Goebotu? Am I right?

Now I don't want to state that these are all the people posting here they are quitting.

* People are dependant of certain applications.
* People don't have the time looking for solutions, they want to be productive fast and now!
* People overrated their skills.
* Linux just isn't it.
* For some people the graphics play an enormous role, so they switch back to Mac OS X or Windows.
* People like to play games.

These people and more people with related / similar reasons just can't depend on Linux. But the people I've wrote above, these are rizing. More and more people expect Linux as a free alternative which does it all and promises them heaven.

[aysiu]

I think you're right on Derek Djons. It's all about expectations. People just expect Ubuntu to be Windows without spyware and viruses... and cost. Ubuntu is completely different.

People don't complain about Mac OS X because Apple's motto is "Think 'Different'," so they're not expecting Windows, anyway. They're expecting something different.

Ubuntu, however, is marketed as "Linux for Human Beings," which people assume means "Linux for idiots" instead of Linux for people who show humanity toward others.

I happen to like Ubuntu, but the Linux for idiots is really Linspire. Mepis and PCLinuxOS take a close second and third.

[XQC]

People don't complain about Mac OS X because Apple's motto is "Think 'Different'," so they're not expecting Windows, anyway. They're expecting something different.
No, it is not that easy.

With OSX, the most issues with the hardware don't exist - because when you buy Mac, you buy the software with the right hardware.
You also have big software vendors behind Apple - like Adobe or even Microsoft.
And one reason more is that everybody can try Ubuntu. Just download and (try to) install it. But if you buy a Mac, you have to spend a whole lot a money for it, so people actually think through this, get information from the internet if it fits their needs and even then think twice if they actually should go and buy it. And when they finally have it, you HAVE to learn OSX and don't even dare to complain about it - because you spent money for a Mac.

[kewl1uk]

Hmmm I see a lot of generalizing going on in this thread and you can't do that with computers or computer users. Take myself. I use my computer mainly for accessing the internet, sending and receiving emails and writing and printing the odd letter. Contrast with my son who is ripping CDs and burning CDs and DVDs, 3D gaming, gaming sites, multi-media messaging and the whole gamut open to him on his 64 bit machine. And there's a lot of users in between those two extremes.

When it comes down to it, you walk into a shop, buy software or hardware, go home to your Windows computer, put the CD in your drive or plug in the hardware and it works. You can't do that with Linux so for the average computer user it's Windows with no alternative. It's that which Linux has to combat. Expecting them to access compatibility lists is just too much for them. Linux has to install and work, period.

In short, they'll plug it in and expect it to work. If it doesn't work they'll either dump it or post on the forums and then dump it if it still doesn't work.

[mstlyevil]

The first time I installed Ubuntu (Hoary 5.04) It took me a week to get it up and running properly. I had a Nvidia Nforce2 chipset mobo with a Athlon XP 2500 at the time. Hoary would not configure the sound properly out of the box and I could not turn on DMA on my drives. I also had to figure out how to get all the little things working like DVD playback, JRE and flash. I probally reinstalled it about 3-4 times in the process of that week because I screwed it up trying to get things working. Eventually I figured out how to properly set up and configure 5.04 and then it seemed easy but in the process of learning it was difficult.

Then Breezy was released and I reinstalled Ubuntu again. This time breezy configured my sound and DMA properly. By this time I knew where to go to get all the information I needed to get it up and running. I had breezy completely installed and configured in a few hours verses a week for Hoary.

Then I built this computer with a Athlon 64 3200 and a Nforce 4 chipset. By this time I became aware of Automatix. Installing Ubuntu and configuring it was a breeze compared to Win XP. I am so amazed at the improvement in everything that is available to noobs and how much easier it is to get Ubuntu up and running. The better hardware detection and configuration by Breezy is also a big plus.

So to answer your question a person has to be willing to stick around long enough for the learning curve. You are more advanced than most people with computers so the learning curve was not as steep for you. For some it is insurmountable and they can not cope with not having a fully operational system within a few hours. Part of this is the fault of Linux users trying to make Linux out to be easier than it is for new people. We set peoples expectations too high and when they are not met these people flee from Linux/Ubuntu saying things like it is not ready for the desktop because it is not like Windows.

We need to be more honest with people we are recruiting to try Linux. They need to be informed up front of the positives and negatives. They also need to understand Linux/Ubuntu is nothing like Windows and that it will take some time to learn a new operating system. This may discourage a lot of people from trying Linux but the ones that do try it will be more likely to stick with it.

(Sorry for ranting.) :rolleyes:

[mips]

Hmmm I see a lot of generalizing going on in this thread and you can't do that with computers or computer users. Take myself. I use my computer mainly for accessing the internet, sending and receiving emails and writing and printing the odd letter. Contrast with my son who is ripping CDs and burning CDs and DVDs, 3D gaming, gaming sites, multi-media messaging and the whole gamut open to him on his 64 bit machine. And there's a lot of users in between those two extremes.

When it comes down to it, you walk into a shop, buy software or hardware, go home to your Windows computer, put the CD in your drive or plug in the hardware and it works. You can't do that with Linux so for the average computer user it's Windows with no alternative. It's that which Linux has to combat. Expecting them to access compatibility lists is just too much for them. Linux has to install and work, period.

In short, they'll plug it in and expect it to work. If it doesn't work they'll either dump it or post on the forums and then dump it if it still doesn't work.

I agree with you 100%. The geeks and nerds here will dissagree with you and expext people to sit around and tinker with the machine all day to make something simple work.

[super]

you're 19 years old. an eighties-baby like me. we practically grew up on computers. i think people in our age group find it a lot easier to switch because we generally know how computers work and can learn fairly rapidly. i had absolutely no problems when i decided to start using linux.

that's my theory.

[greenpenguin]

Personally, I had a hard time with printers and scanners - too up-to-date methinks. Aside from that (oh, and my graphics card :() it all worked.
It's definately easy to use - in fact, my parents who I switched have recently stopped moaning about it being different and started commenting on how easy it is to use.

One of the most annoying things I've heard is when someone told me "It's too different" - and that was just testing out the liveCD. I then attempted to gnaw their leg off and got sent to a mental asylum for a week...

[Big_Thumb]

I didn't really think about Linux all that much until I picked up a magazine that had the Ubauntu 5.10 install disk in it.

I got bored one weekend and installed it on my old HP pavillion with the Celeron 800 in it. In under 40 minutes the OS was installed and configured. It even detected my D-Link wireless card. It took me just about 4 hour to get Win2000 configured on the same PC.

So far I'm impressed!