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billdotson
September 1st, 2009, 01:06 PM
I was reading a fair amount of (mostly old) articles yesterday about lots of things Linux related. It all started when I was trying to find a Linux distribution that allowed easy access for me to buy commercial applications, codecs, etc. so that if I wanted to recommend GNU/Linux to someone that wasn't comfortable with the codec situation I could say "get x, you can legally purchase the codecs."

Of course, I found Xandros, Linspire and Freespire. After a little digging I found out that with Freespire (unless Xandros is dismantling it and it's CNR package manager) you have a fully free operating system. You also have the CNR plugin which can allow you to purchase codecs, programs (like Cedega) or get commercial (non-free) hardware drivers.

It sounded good, but then I read about the Microsoft Novell racketeering thing. Not only did Microsoft demand Novell give them money or they and their users would be sued but they did this to Xandros as well. As you can imagine, I refuse to get a Linux OS where I have to pay a $50 Microsoft fine for something they do not own even if it is setup in a way to make things easier for the home desktop user. They won't publicly say the patents that are involved for who knows what reason.

I don't know much about the TomTom case but I think those type of things are actually good for the Linux kernel. If companies keep making products built on the Linux kernel and get sued then the Linux community will just say "ok, you think that infringes on your patent, fine. Here is code that does the same thing that doesn't. Problem solved." Open source doesn't want or need Microsoft code. In fact, it is probably preferred that they would tell us what is an "infringement" just so it could be patched and they would have to STFU. The nonsense about the FAT "infringement" in the TomTam case was fixed very quickly.

(I may be out of the loop and this might have already been done). This may sound like the act of a traitor, but wouldn't it be easier for the open source world if Solaris were released under the GPL v3 (it might be already)? The GNU part of the GNU/Linux OS could be moved to work on top of the Solaris kernel and then there wouldn't be any disputes about who would own the kernel. Sun Microsystems owns the Solaris kernel indisputably (unless something happened) and if they released it under the GPL it would be a lot harder for MS to spew any nonsense about patent infringements. Then, (Sun or Oracle, whoever owns who) OpenSolaris would have a big backing from a major technology company in addition to the open source community.

Thoughts? Should we just code an entirely new kernel altogether and stick GNU on it? Should Google make its own kernel? Or is Linux progressing into the business and home desktop world just fine? In my opinion the only real way to push anything Linux into the main user space (currently) is to have a system that is free by default but a system in which they have easy access to patented codecs, etc. through indisputably legal channels. Until enough things can be replaced with open source open source users still have to rely on some proprietary technologies. We should just get youtube to switch to an open version of flash and rid the web on anything MPAA, windows media or quicktime and many problems would be fixed.

Also, what effect do you think Google has on open source? Are they the big brother watching out for open source or are they only promoting it when it is convenient?

Tibuda
September 1st, 2009, 01:09 PM
OpenSolaris? It is not GPL, but the source is released under OSI-approved license.

Open Source
The majority of the OpenSolaris code base is distributed under an OSI-approved open source license. Code based on existing open source projects continues to be available under its current license(s), and some binary-only components are covered under the OpenSolaris Binary License. (http://opensolaris.org/os/)

Bachstelze
September 1st, 2009, 01:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexenta_OS

Dragonbite
September 1st, 2009, 05:05 PM
What Microsoft-Novell racketeering game?

It's been around for how long and no legal or negative ramifications have come from it.

Or is this another Microsoft conspiracy theory thread?

billdotson
September 1st, 2009, 07:20 PM
Didn't Microsoft make a deal with both Novell and Xandros where Novell and Xandros gave them a bunch of money and then Microsoft put up a "no sue license." Basically, if you go buy Xandros you are given the option of paying $50 for "Microsoft patent protection." "Microsoft patent protection" meaning that if Microsoft decidec to sue Xandros over "patent infringements" in Linux you wouldn't get sued if you had paid the "Microsoft patent protection." This is real, I saw it myself yesterday when looking at Xandros pricing. So basically, it sounds like racketeering to me. Why didn't Novell and Xandros just tell MS to **** off? If Microsoft really did bring a big list of patents forward I bet it wouldn't take too long (relatively) to redo all the relevant code. Then MS wouldn't have anything to do.

I don't know what license NexentaOS or OpenSolaris is under, you say it is OSI?

I think a big thing for Linux is it needs strong support from a company like Google and it needs something like the Linspire CNR plugin so that there is easy access to commercial codecs, programs, etc. if desired (note: not all users will even want to do this, but it is kind of nice to be able to watch flash or wmv on websites; I would prefer sites just to use ogm or matroska, but things aren't that nice yet). For the business sector they just need something good enough to push the Microsoft Exchange Server and Office out of the way.

Does anyone know the exact details of that TomTom lawsuit? I heard that at least part of it was the use of "short file names" in the FAT filesystem. Microsoft, FAT is how old? Let it go. You make plenty of money. Speaking of TomTom, why were they using FAT? Why just not use ext2 or ext3?

What really needs to happen is have someone catch MS violate the GPL in some way and then someone have the guts to sue them. If MS ever lost a case against the GPL it would be huge. A judge recently told Microsoft that they had to use standard XML for all their office documents from now on for interoperability reasons. Good things still happen..

Bachstelze
September 1st, 2009, 07:29 PM
I don't know what license NexentaOS or OpenSolaris is under, you say it is OSI?

OpenSolaris is under the CDDL. Since Nexenta uses the OpenSolaris kernel, the kernel is also under the CDDL, and since it uses the GNU userland, the userland is under the GPL.

castrojo
September 1st, 2009, 07:40 PM
It all started when I was trying to find a Linux distribution that allowed easy access for me to buy commercial applications, codecs, etc. so that if I wanted to recommend GNU/Linux to someone that wasn't comfortable with the codec situation I could say "get x, you can legally purchase the codecs."

You mean like Ubuntu does? :)

http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=19&currency=USD

LowSky
September 1st, 2009, 07:40 PM
billdotson what the heck are you talking about?
This "news" is from 2006...

Since then MS has not sued one Linux company for patent infringement

cmay
September 1st, 2009, 08:07 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1251527
this is because the codecs no doubt. which means that no one is safe even if it is solaris or what ever. i am just happy that it is not media-buntu that is showing a closed sign on their frontpage.

billdotson
September 3rd, 2009, 11:16 PM
The Novell thing is old, yes, but this also happened to Xandros. For someone who was concerned about codecs and the ability to purchase commercial applications Xandros (or freespire but I don't know the current status of it and its CNR plugin) sounds like a pretty good deal. Of course, I don't really like the idea of even having an option of buying a $50 patent covenant from MS to use Linux.

The Ubuntu store is ok, but they only have 4 software things on there. They have a commercial DVD player, the Fluendo codec pack (which is gstreamer only, what if you have an application that doesn't use the streamer framework? Why can't they just be universal codecs? If there is something I don't understand please tell me.) Parallels (why not just use VirtualBox?) and then Windows Media Playback only (Fluendo again). That isn't much of a selection, and it definitely isn't integrated into a package manager.

Linux needs a better codec solution than just buying the ability to play DVD, mpeg, wmv and DivX. There needs to be a way to get encoding, transcoding and decoding between major formats, or at the very least the ability to transcode to ogg theora and ogg vorbis (obviously I am talking "legal" here as there are plenty of easy to get free codecs available from non-USA based servers). I don't know if the Fluendo codec pack or the DVD player you can buy from the Canonical store will work on other Linuxes that aren't Ubuntu either. If they won't it isn't worth paying for them.

Dragonbite
September 4th, 2009, 01:16 PM
You can purchase the Fluendo pack directly from them and it is not distro-specific.

Why Gstreamer? Probably because nobody's made anything for Xine, which I think is the other big on and usual default for KDE.

OpenSUSE Gnome ships with Banshee/helix I believe, and the Helix project allows it to play MP3s out of the box (and legal as far as I know).

Overall, it's a sad, grey area that is going to haunt Linux adoption until it is either made easier to understand or easier to utilize. Dell has helped some, with including Fluendo codecs in their systems so as far as the consumer understands it plays things just as easily as Windows.

Tom Mann
September 4th, 2009, 01:44 PM
billdotson what the heck are you talking about?
This "news" is from 2006...

Since then MS has not sued one Linux company for patent infringement

Err.... TomTom? (http://www.osnews.com/story/21044/Microsoft_Sues_TomTom)