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chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:14 PM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?


edit : just saw i wrote "of" instead of "or"

edit edit - /me saw and changed it for you :)

Phreaker
August 29th, 2009, 03:17 PM
Hungarian / Greek

Much more difficult :)

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:19 PM
Hungarian / Greek

Much more difficult :)

i definitely know how to speak Greek :)

Hungarian is not included at the university's program, but i don't consider it to be an attractive idea either way

NCLI
August 29th, 2009, 03:19 PM
Japanese. Much more interesting(new alphabet) and spoken by more people.

Also, it's not all that hard, it's a very logical language.

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Japanese. Much more interesting(new alphabet) and spoken by more people.

Also, it's not all that hard, it's a very logical language.

how much would it take to learn it though?

JDShu
August 29th, 2009, 03:29 PM
With no factual basis at all, I think Japanese is more "useful" if all else remains the same - your interest in the cultures, you have an equal desire to study both languages, interest for linguistic reasons etc.

Of course if "usefulness" was all you cared about, you'd be learning Mandarin or Spanish :P

BTW, I did a university course that took one year, which brought me up to a basic level of communication with Japanese people.

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:31 PM
With no factual basis at all, I think Japanese is more "useful" if all else remains the same - your interest in the cultures, you have an equal desire to study both languages, interest for linguistic reasons etc.

Of course if "usefulness" was all you cared about, you'd be learning Mandarin or Spanish :P

why would spanish be all that useful?

koshatnik
August 29th, 2009, 03:35 PM
why would spanish be all that useful?

ALot of people around the world speak it.

JDShu
August 29th, 2009, 03:36 PM
"Usefulness" in terms of how often you'd want to use it, in turn based on the number of speakers in the world. As I said, no factual basis; obviously, if you're going to live in Finland or Japan, then those languages go up the usefulness scale.

Kingsley
August 29th, 2009, 03:37 PM
Spanish would probably be much more useful in North America than Europe/Asia.

eragon100
August 29th, 2009, 03:37 PM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?


edit : just saw i wrote "of" instead of "or"

日本語 (nihongo, Japanese)

It is much, much more usefull to learn than finish. I only just started learning Japanese myself, so I am not sure, but it seems to be one of the easier languages to learn, especially the spoken part :wink:

Besides, L would be proud! :lolflag: (It is L in your avatar, right?)

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:52 PM
日本語 (nihongo, Japanese)

It is much, much more usefull to learn than finish. I only just started learning Japanese myself, so I am not sure, but it seems to be one of the easier languages to learn, especially the spoken part :wink:

Besides, L would be proud! :lolflag: (It is L in your avatar, right?)

believe it or not, anime has played a huge part in me wanting to start learning Japanese. (Finnish comes from the fact that i almost exclusively listen to music from Finland)

by the way, what do you consider a normal monthly payment (or yearly) for learning a language?

edit : forgot to mention something about L : he can't be proud about anything anymore. he's kind of..stable let me say :)

MikeTheC
August 29th, 2009, 03:54 PM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?


edit : just saw i wrote "of" instead of "or"

Why don't you start with the one, and finish with the other?

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Why don't you start with the one, and finish with the other?

you mean learning both?
i can't say i understood what you said exactly :S

MikeTheC
August 29th, 2009, 04:03 PM
you mean learning both?
i can't say i understood what you said exactly :S

It's a bit of a linguistic joke.

You said you were considering two languages, Japanese and Finnish.

I'm playing off the words "Finnish" and "finish".

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 04:04 PM
It's a bit of a linguistic joke.

You said you were considering two languages, Japanese and Finnish.

I'm playing off the words "Finnish" and "finish".

i thought so , but since i don't speak English very well, i asked to be sure :)

HappinessNow
August 29th, 2009, 04:07 PM
I vote for Japanese, but Mandarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Mandarin) or even Wu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese) may prove to be more valuable in the long run. :P

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 04:09 PM
I vote for Japanese, but Mandarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Mandarin) would prove to be more valuable in the long run. :P

would it be too difficult to learn Mandarin after learning Japanese?

i don't know whether they have anything else in common other than the look of the symbols :$

eragon100
August 29th, 2009, 04:16 PM
would it be too difficult to learn Mandarin after learning Japanese?

i don't know whether they have anything else in common other than the look of the symbols :$

The meaning of the symbols :lolflag:

eragon100
August 29th, 2009, 04:16 PM
believe it or not, anime has played a huge part in me wanting to start learning Japanese. (Finnish comes from the fact that i almost exclusively listen to music from Finland)

by the way, what do you consider a normal monthly payment (or yearly) for learning a language?

edit : forgot to mention something about L : he can't be proud about anything anymore. he's kind of..stable let me say :)

Anime was the reason for me too :lolflag:

I know, I watched Death Note. That's why I said "would be proud" :P

chriskin
August 29th, 2009, 04:18 PM
The meaning of the symbols :lolflag:

same symbol --> totally different meaning or
same symbol --> slightly different meaning?


pity that L dies, DN went to nothing after that

HappinessNow
August 29th, 2009, 04:18 PM
would it be too difficult to learn Mandarin after learning Japanese?

i don't know whether they have anything else in common other than the look of the symbols :$While Sinitic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinitic_languages) and Japonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japonic_languages) languages have both differences and similarities Japanese, Ryukyuan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_languages) (particularly Okinawan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawan_languages) and it's subgroups like Ie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ie,_Okinawa), Kunigami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunigami_language) and Shimajiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimajiri_District,_Okinawa)) Mandarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Mandarin), Wu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese) or even Bai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_language) would all be just as enjoyable for you. Start with what available instructors you have at your disposal, you can always add other languages later.

moma
August 29th, 2009, 04:43 PM
Learn Portuguese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language).

It is rather difficult language to start with and pronunciation is also a challenge because the differences in European/African portuguese and Brasilian portuguese. It is a beautiful language and culture. :)

Start with: http://www.futuredesktop.org/portugisisk/1000-portuguese-words.html

JDShu
August 29th, 2009, 04:54 PM
I vote for Japanese, but Mandarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Mandarin) or even Wu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese) may prove to be more valuable in the long run. :P

Do I detect regionalism there? ;)

I definitely agree the Mandarin is probably the most "valuable" in the sense of business reasons and such. Wu? Cantonese is way more badass! :guitar:

I'm another one who first learned Japanese because of Anime, or more accurately wanting to read Manga raws without waiting for the translations. (Though current manga scanlations get released at breakneck speed)

HappinessNow
August 29th, 2009, 05:02 PM
Do I detect regionalism there? ;)

I definitely agree the Mandarin is probably the most "valuable" in the sense of business reasons and such. Wu? Cantonese is way more badass! :guitar:

I'm another one who first learned Japanese because of Anime, or more accurately wanting to read Manga raws without waiting for the translations. (Though current manga scanlations get released at breakneck speed)No debate on Mandarin being useful for business.

Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language) is also a very good language to pick up.

hessiess
August 29th, 2009, 05:16 PM
Japanese as it actually has a use outside Japan (Anime :) ).

glantela
August 29th, 2009, 05:49 PM
Hey i can speak Finnish a bit! My parents speak to me in finnish, so i can understand it and i can speak it basically. There are a lot of different endings to words depending on what you are saying, that's the hard part! I'd try to get into details but i would probably just confuse you, because i dont really know the proper way of saying things!

earthpigg
August 29th, 2009, 07:07 PM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?

having lived in Finland as a single young man interested in doing single young man things, i will answer from that POV.

Winland was great. Hard Rock / Metal country. not to much hip hop type stuff. Finnish women cannot dance anyways, so no major loss there.

Finnish women are absolutely nuts in all the best possible ways - ill be more specific in PM if you like.

Finnish men are like a cross between Spartans and Vulcans. They will jump you outside the bar if they see you chattin up their national treasures. I hate fighting and am not confrontational at all, but I got in more fistfights in my 7 months in Winland than the entire previous 25 years of my life combined.

Is the women-are-nuts-in-all-the-best-ways worth a bloody nose or two, and maybe a chipped tooth to you?

cprofitt
August 29th, 2009, 07:10 PM
This is one of those threads that makes me realize how much living in America sucks for some things... the US educational system just does not teach languages early enough nor do they do it well.

nubimax
August 29th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Japanese is a easy language to learn I picked up enough to be able to get by in japan in less then six months with out formally studying the language at all.
M

eragon100
August 29th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Japanese is a easy language to learn I picked up enough to be able to get by in japan in less then six months with out formally studying the language at all.
M

But can you write it? To write, you strictly only need to know about 80 hira- and katakana, but there are about 1900 kanjis which are usefull as well (because you are expected to use them instead of hiragana inside Japan).

To read, say, a Japanese newspaper, learning those characters is essential, because they (almost) always use them instead of hiragana. Japanese is the only langauge I've encountered where reading is actually more difficult than writing :lolflag:

dragos240
August 29th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Japanese.

earthpigg
August 29th, 2009, 08:16 PM
one thing to consider:

Nokia accounts for 1/4 of all exports from Finland (yes, Nokia is Finnish), and they have a hard time finding employees that speak English as their first language and speak fluent finnish.

Nokia, as an employer...or any employment in Finland, for that matter.... Well, Winland is a pretty freakin Socialist nation. being employed in Winland, expect a 37.5 hour work week with great overtime pay, expect 5 weeks of paid vacation a year, and expect to benefit from the free universal healthcare and free universal education.

does Living/Working in Japan, with Japanese norms of quality of life and employee benefits/pay/hours/etc appeal to you?

chucky chuckaluck
August 29th, 2009, 08:18 PM
i love brazilian music and i'm an mma fan, so i'd probably try to learn portuguese. it's a pretty sounding language and great to sing in.

italian's a fun language and there's only 21 letters.

bl33d
August 29th, 2009, 10:38 PM
Finnish

NCLI
August 29th, 2009, 10:51 PM
I'm just here to add a +1 to "I learned Japanese because of anime & manga" category :KS

Frak
August 29th, 2009, 10:52 PM
Finnese or Japinnish

miggols99
August 29th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Japanese :) I've started learning it for about a month, and I've already picked up a lot. I started learning because I was interested in the culture, J-pop, anime and I hope to live there later in my life :D

Although the writing is quite hard to learn. At the moment I'm learning hiragana, one of the "alphabets" of Japanese.

macogw
August 30th, 2009, 01:51 AM
believe it or not, anime has played a huge part in me wanting to start learning Japanese. (Finnish comes from the fact that i almost exclusively listen to music from Finland)
Believe it or not? Of course I believe it. Kids in high school couldn't make sense of the fact that I was in the Japanese class but DIDN't watch anime. All the other kids took it so they could watch anime without subtitles.

I <3 Japanese writing system. It's great! I didn't realize how great until I studied Russian. Then I realized that sounding words out is really sucky. In Japanese, you just see one or two (sometimes three) symbols and you've got the whole word! None of this 15-letter-word crap I had in Russian.

Oh, and Spanish's usefulness comes in it being spoken in (IIRC) 23 countries.

~ Mackenzie, who has studied Spanish, Japanese, Russian, and American Sign Language

bl33d
August 30th, 2009, 02:10 AM
From Japanese or Finnish,i will choose Japanese,as Finnish is very hard to learn.

No it isn't.

MikeTheC
August 30th, 2009, 07:55 AM
Why, this thread reminds me of a song...

[Cue transition visuals starting with geeking on UbuntuForums at a computer to traveling through a complex cityscape, first at a slow speed and then accelerating to a nearly blinding speed, then meshing and intercutting that with traveling through a natural preserve until it's only nature that's visible, terminating in a forest clearing with beautiful women dancing about.

We stop at an office desk where we see a man in his forties, trim and with dark hair, sitting and evidently talking on the phone. He takes notice of us suddenly and peremptorily hanging the phone up.]

ANNOUNCER: And now for something completely different.

[Cut to a more northerly woods and a man standing near a moose. He begins to sing.]


"Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me.

You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.


You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.

Finland has it all."

Exodist
August 30th, 2009, 08:17 AM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?


edit : just saw i wrote "of" instead of "or"

edit edit - /me saw and changed it for you :)

GERMEN!!

Learn Germen, you can sing "old mc donald had a farm" and still sound hard core!!

bl33d
August 30th, 2009, 08:38 AM
GERMEN!!

Learn Germen, you can sing "old mc donald had a farm" and still sound hard core!!

German is an ugly language.

winjeel
August 30th, 2009, 08:39 AM
I'm living in Japan, and I've had a Finnish flatmate (in American English: housemate, or something like that). I think Finnish are cooler, more down to earth, and culturally we have a lot more in common. Japanese is perhaps easier, but the culture is rather different. If you're studying psychology or sociology as a major, you'll find that Japanese psychology and society, being rather different to Western mindsets is really different and therefore this is a really interesting place to be. If I had my time again, I'd be looking either at Chinese (Mandarin for Taiwan, or Cantonese for general south east Asia), or an EU official language (Finnish). But then, French, Spanish, and Portguesse can cover you for S.America and Africa.

RaZe42
August 30th, 2009, 08:42 AM
As a Finn with Swedish as my first language( of course I speak fluent Finnish too, but some of my friends don't) I must say that if you want to learn Finnish, you'll have to learn the grammar *properly*.

Finnish doesn't have any prepositions, and uses suffixes on the words instead. There's so many different suffixes that even native speakers are confused by them.

Example:
Koira (Dog)
Koiraksiko? (Into a dog, as in "He turned into a dog." )

Oh, and by the way, Finns are *horrible* English speakers. Actually, they suck at any foreign language. :P

bl33d
August 30th, 2009, 08:45 AM
As a Finn with Swedish as my first language( of course I speak fluent Finnish too, but some of my friends don't) I must say that if you want to learn Finnish, you'll have to learn the grammar *properly*.

Finnish doesn't have any prepositions, and uses suffixes on the words instead. There's so many different suffixes that even native speakers are confused by them.

Example:
Koira (Dog)
Koiraksiko? (Into a dog, as in "He turned into a dog." )

Oh, and by the way, Finns are *horrible* English speakers. Actually, they suck at any foreign language. :P

joo :P

madjr
August 30th, 2009, 08:47 AM
Oh, and by the way, Finns are *horrible* English speakers. Actually, they suck at any foreign language. :P

not that horrible, in high school i knew i nice finn girl and spoke spanish (my native) quite well with a nice cute accent

madjr
August 30th, 2009, 08:58 AM
alright the BIG question is:


Would anime subs be less cool for me :confused:


for example i watch stuff in english or spanish (the languages i know) and gets pretty boring for me.

while i watch stuff in some weird foreign language (usually wapanesse with subtitles) and for some reason is more exciting. :guitar:


if i learn "spoken" wapanesse and afraid i'll ruin the experience. I like anime/manga so much mainly cuz is strange for me :(

or maybe am just imagining things ? :/

sometimes knowing too much about a culture/language can make the interest wear off. Kinda like Japanese people think America is so cool...

heck indians thought colonist were so cool with their stupid little mirrors and gave em their gold ;/

oh oh , wait i got another one is called "my wife"

i thought she was zOMG INCREDIBLY OUT OF THIS WORLD!!

then i married her, got to know her and now i hate her

chriskin
August 30th, 2009, 04:07 PM
oh oh , wait i got another one is called "my wife"

i thought she was zOMG INCREDIBLY OUT OF THIS WORLD!!

then i married her, got to know her and now i hate her

:lolflag:


As a Finn with Swedish as my first language( of course I speak fluent Finnish too, but some of my friends don't) I must say that if you want to learn Finnish, you'll have to learn the grammar *properly*.

Finnish doesn't have any prepositions, and uses suffixes on the words instead. There's so many different suffixes that even native speakers are confused by them.

Example:
Koira (Dog)
Koiraksiko? (Into a dog, as in "He turned into a dog." )

that's giving Finnish a point :)



Oh, and by the way, Finns are *horrible* English speakers. Actually, they suck at any foreign language. :P

not exactly true from my way too limited experience, i got to know two ladies from up there and they both sounded quite normally - better than me at least :P


Japanese :) I've started learning it for about a month, and I've already picked up a lot. I started learning because I was interested in the culture, J-pop, anime and I hope to live there later in my life :D

Although the writing is quite hard to learn. At the moment I'm learning hiragana, one of the "alphabets" of Japanese.

one of the major disadvantages of japanese are the "alphabets" as you said them. learning four different ways to write each language seems hard


one thing to consider:

Nokia accounts for 1/4 of all exports from Finland (yes, Nokia is Finnish), and they have a hard time finding employees that speak English as their first language and speak fluent finnish.

Nokia, as an employer...or any employment in Finland, for that matter.... Well, Winland is a pretty freakin Socialist nation. being employed in Winland, expect a 37.5 hour work week with great overtime pay, expect 5 weeks of paid vacation a year, and expect to benefit from the free universal healthcare and free universal education.

does Living/Working in Japan, with Japanese norms of quality of life and employee benefits/pay/hours/etc appeal to you?

i know about Nokia, a friend of mine went at a university in Finland in a scholarship payed by Nokia and then started working there :)


This is one of those threads that makes me realize how much living in America sucks for some things... the US educational system just does not teach languages early enough nor do they do it well.

can't say that Greece has many good points, but the educational system works Really most of the time , considering the really low budget it has

Starlight
August 30th, 2009, 08:41 PM
I'd pick Japanese, because then I'd be able to watch anime and read manga that hasn't been translated yet :) But it seems really difficult, with its alphabet and everything...

eragon100
August 30th, 2009, 10:14 PM
I'd pick Japanese, because then I'd be able to watch anime and read manga that hasn't been translated yet :) But it seems really difficult, with its alphabet and everything...

Speaking: not to difficult

Writing: doable as long as you will use mostly hiragana (you'll have to use at least some kanji (Chinese characters) if you want your text to be taken seriously)

Reading: You will need to learn the 1900 (approx.) most-used kanji that are required to be learned by Japanese children and teenagers at school, as these characters are used very often. Other kanji aren't used often, and when they are, are required by law to be accompanied by furikana, small hiragana characters above the kanji which inform the reader how it should be pronounced -- and thus gives the character's meaning as well provided that the reader in question knows what the word means.

Starlight
August 30th, 2009, 10:23 PM
Speaking: not to difficult

Writing: doable as long as you will use mostly hiragana (you'll have to use at least some kanji (Chinese characters) if you want your text to be taken seriously)

Reading: You will need to learn the 1900 (approx.) most-used kanji that are required to be learned by Japanese children and teenagers at school, as these characters are used very often. Other kanji aren't used often, and when they are, are required by law to be accompanied by furikana, small hiragana characters above the kanji which inform the reader how it should be pronounced -- and thus gives the character's meaning as well provided that the reader in question knows what the word means.

That sounds interesting :) But learning 1900 kanji still sounds extremely hard... O.O it probably takes years to learn!

koleoptero
August 31st, 2009, 12:38 AM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose

Have you thought about learning hindu? Might come in handy if you're passing through Omonoia sqare late at night. :P


can't say that Greece has many good points, but the educational system works Really most of the time , considering the really low budget it has

In what Greece? Must be in a parallel universe. :lolflag:

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 12:45 AM
Have you thought about learning hindu? Might come in handy if you're passing through Omonoia sqare late at night. :P



:lolflag:
there are so many people from so many different places at omonoia late at night, that you never know what language you need to know :)



In what Greece? Must be in a parallel universe. :lolflag:

nope
schools might be ready to fall, teachers might not be enough in some cases BUT you must have noticed that we have (always had - even though since the new government came it's not obvious anymore, they kind of destroyed everything that can be destroyed) a rather strong educational system.
1)we learn whatever we learn, especially in physics and mathematics one or two years before people from the US or most european countries.
2)we get the right to learn new languages for like 300 a year just by being a member of a uni - or even less if you get two of them
3)many great scientists work at our universities having said no to many better-paying ones (like one i have that was asked by Stanford and said no)


it feels so damn stupid for a greek to talk to someone of his own country in english :P

koleoptero
August 31st, 2009, 01:09 AM
The educational system here has great potential, but goes in the opposite direction of being good. Must be something wrong with the climate I guess. Universities for example have great professors, willing students, plenty of money (trust me on that) but work like sh*t.

Nevertheless it could be worse.

But indeed when it comes to learning foreign languages all it takes is the will to do it, there are plenty of opportunities.

And yeah it is weird talking in English with each other. :lolflag:

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 01:13 AM
Universities for example have great professors, willing students, plenty of money (trust me on that) but work like sh*t.


that's the fun in being greek :)



And yeah it is weird talking in English with each other.

since i find you in the forums as well, thanks again for clicking on my dropbox link , the extra space won't be forgotten :)

(as well as the other 3-4 people who clicked it, i was too bored to check who they were :) )

tcoffeep
August 31st, 2009, 04:42 AM
The only language I want to learn is arabic. I don't even know why, but I do.

Frak
August 31st, 2009, 05:08 AM
The only language I want to learn is arabic. I don't even know why, but I do.
Hate to say it, but:

Come to the US, join the Military, they'll teach you Arabic for free :)

ctrlmd
August 31st, 2009, 05:52 AM
Japanese4sure

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 03:36 PM
well it seems that i will go for japanese for the simple reason that the finnish class didn't get enough people. or at least there are not enough of them yet :(

eragon100
August 31st, 2009, 05:28 PM
well it seems that i will go for japanese for the simple reason that the finnish class didn't get enough people. or at least there are not enough of them yet :(

You won't regret it! Have fun! :wink:

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 05:32 PM
You won't regret it! Have fun! :wink:

hope so , thanks :)

:popcorn:

gtr32
August 31st, 2009, 05:50 PM
Oh, and by the way, Finns are *horrible* English speakers. Actually, they suck at any foreign language. :P

Horrible at germanic languages like English and Swedish, yes, they are. I think you would find the native germanic speakers struggling more with latin derived languages for example than Finns would.

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 05:51 PM
Horrible at germanic languages like English and Swedish, yes, they are. I think you would find the native germanic speakers struggling more with latin derived languages for example than Finns would.

is it my idea or do many finns know how to speak swedish?
i mean know it really well

gtr32
August 31st, 2009, 06:02 PM
is it my idea or do many finns know how to speak swedish?
i mean know it really well

It is the second official language of Finland and at least used to be mandatory class at school. Really well, I think only a small percentage outside of the Swedish descending population. My dad knows it quite well but he used to work in Sweden when he was young.

I am a Finn, I was born in Sweden and lived most of my life close to the Swedish border, and my swedish is mediocre at best. I am fluent in English and know a little German. While IMO easier to learn than English, it just wasn't as rewarding or interesting to learn. I find Spanish and Portuguese much easier to learn than either of them, especially Spanish. The reason is the rule of pronunciation, in most cases it is pronounced as it is written which is not the case with Germanic languages.

I am a Finn born in Sweden, live in US, my wife is a native Spanish speaker and I work for a German company. :)

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 06:04 PM
It is the second official language of Finland and at least used to be mandatory class at school. Really well, I think only a small percentage outside of the Swedish descending population.

I am a Finn, I was born in Sweden and lived most of my life close to the Swedish border, and my swedish is mediocre at best. I am fluent in English and know a little German. While IMO easier to learn than English, it just wasn't as rewarding or interesting to learn. I find Spanish and Portuguese much easier to learn than either of them, especially Spanish. The reason is the rule of pronunciation, in most cases it is pronounced as it is written which is not the case with Germanic languages.

I am a Finn born in Sweden, live in US, my wife is a native Spanish speaker and I work for a German company. :)

by the way, is swedish a hard language to learn?

i thought that people in finland would speak swedish like native (i mean those close to the border at least)

gtr32
August 31st, 2009, 06:12 PM
It isn't hard, especially if you're fluent in another germanic language like english. I think with Finns and swedish language is the same as with French and english, they really don't care or want to learn it. Most know at least the basics and many are quite good but very few are fluent in it.

Colonel Kilkenny
August 31st, 2009, 06:22 PM
is it my idea or do many finns know how to speak swedish?
i mean know it really well

In theory almost all Finns should be able to use Swedish because all kids must study Swedish (at least 3 years). But the truth is that most Finns for some reason don't really like Swedish, they also don't want to learn it and that is why they aren't really even able to use it. However, the basic skills might still be there but:
a) we are quite stubborn
b) we like to underestimate our language skills (too humble, too shy)
and that is why we don't use Swedish really. Only the west (and partly south) coast of Finland is where you can hear Swedish in daily life.

But of course there are probably hundreds of thousands of Finns who can take a ferry to Stockholm and "survive" there just fine with their "svenska".

BTW. I have to disagree RaZe42. I think that Finns are just as good as e.g. our lovely neighbours in the west when it comes to English. Okay, some Finns may have a bit of "Rally-English" thing going on, but hey, at least the pronunciation is quite clear. And I rather listen to this rally English than unclear mumbling.

Edit. And as I said, we're a bit stubborn and constantly underestimating our skills, that applies to English as well. Especially this applies to the older people.

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 06:26 PM
that was the idea i got from reading some finland-related book in the past, but there was implied that almost anyone can speak both languages there (even though it was placed in the west coast, probably that's the reason)

anyway , i sure hope that i will persuade the people at the university to start a finnish class :)

RaZe42
August 31st, 2009, 06:30 PM
I'm from Finland and and I'm a native Swedish speaker. 5 % of Finland's population speak Swedish natively.

Most Finns know some Swedish words but the majority is in no way fluent in Swedish. (Finnish-speaking Finns have to study Swedish in school for at least two years.)

And, I'd say that Swedish is as hard to learn as English is. So, not that hard, especially if you already speak another Germanic language.

EDIT: oops kinda late.

EDIT2: Yes, most of the "finlandssvenskar"/"suomenruotsalaiset" (approx. "Finlandswedes") live along the coast.

I totally agree about the stubborness :P (Maybe has something to do with the Finnish "sisu"? )

And yes, many Finns dislike Swedish, and there's some prejudice against Swedish-speaking Finns (We're called sarcastically called "svenskatalande bättre folk" = "Swedish-speaking better people/folks", because historically we've mostly been upper-class.


And, yes, Swedes aren't that great at English either, they've also gotten a distrinct "soft" accent, quite the opposite to the Finnish "hard, pronounce as it is spelled" accent. That's why we Swedish-speaking Finns are the best of both worlds ;) (only joking)

gjoellee
August 31st, 2009, 06:52 PM
why would spanish be all that useful?

About 800 000 000 speak Mandarin, and between 400 000 000 and 500 000 000 speaks Spanish (as their maiden language). Those two languages are the most spoken and third most spoken language on the planet.

People speak Spanish in the whole southern America (except in Brazil which is Portuguese), as well as in Spain and other Spanish islands.

Spanish is also quite similar to Portuguese, Italian. French and Spanish does also have a lot in common. If you learn Spanish you can more easily learn French which is mostly spoken in France and quite a few countries in Africa.

x3roconf
August 31st, 2009, 06:55 PM
i'm about to start learning a new language
considering those two interesting examples, which one would you propose?


edit : just saw i wrote "of" instead of "or"

edit edit - /me saw and changed it for you :)

Try japanese we have enough rednecks here in finland. :)

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 06:55 PM
About 800 000 000 speak Mandarin, and between 400 000 000 and 500 000 000 speaks Spanish (as their maiden language). Those two languages are the most spoken and third most spoken language on the planet.

People speak Spanish in the whole southern America (except in Brazil which is Portuguese), as well as in Spain and other Spanish islands.

Spanish is also quite similar to Portuguese, Italian. French and Spanish does also have a lot in common. If you learn Spanish you can more easily learn French which is mostly spoken in France and quite a few countries in Africa.

the reason why i asked was "why would Spanish be useful for me" not "useful for anyone" . i have no real tendency to move to southern america, or even Spain

i know about the languages over the globe by the way :)

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 06:56 PM
Try japanese we have enough rednecks here in finland. :)

what is that supposed to mean?

ks07
August 31st, 2009, 07:07 PM
If it was me, I would learn Japanese. I find the country fascinating and I'd be able to read manga watch anime without subtitles which would be great. Also, I think the symbols would be a nice change to the usual romanic alphabet. :)

Firestem4
August 31st, 2009, 08:16 PM
This is one of those threads that makes me realize how much living in America sucks for some things... the US educational system just does not teach languages early enough nor do they do it well.

Thats very true...Though It may vary per school-district or region or state. Learning another language is not a high priority for our school systems which is a real unfortunate problem. Making it mandatory to learn another language in school could do wonders for international relations as well as make people aware there are more languages in the world than just American. (<---I wrote that by purpose.)

I started learning German in freshman year. I was psyched for it too because my family heritage is German. Sophomore year we had no German teacher for the 2nd course =/. That kind of ended it for me although if I ever go back to Germany I think i'd pick it up fairly quickly now.

chriskin
August 31st, 2009, 08:22 PM
Thats very true...Though It may vary per school-district or region or state. Learning another language is not a high priority for our school systems which is a real unfortunate problem. Making it mandatory to learn another language in school could do wonders for international relations as well as make people aware there are more languages in the world than just American. (<---I wrote that by purpose.)

I started learning German in freshman year. I was psyched for it too because my family heritage is German. Sophomore year we had no German teacher for the 2nd course =/. That kind of ended it for me although if I ever go back to Germany I think i'd pick it up fairly quickly now.

are there no privately owned institutions for learning different languages in the US ??

bl33d
August 31st, 2009, 08:29 PM
Try japanese we have enough rednecks here in finland. :)

lol

Kantis
August 31st, 2009, 08:50 PM
Another Finn chiming in. I work in a pretty international environment, and the difference of speed in which the foreigners learn Finnish is astounding. For example, my boss is German and my job interview two years ago was held in English AND with an interpreter, and now we talk in Finnish like any two Finns, although she has a thick accent. A Japanese colleague of hers has been here at least three years, and can only do a couple of simple phrases, but with the most perfect, perfect Finnish accent! Many taxi drivers don't seem to be able to speak any known human language, so it is both funny and frustrating to listen to a negotiation between people from the opposite ends of the earth using FINNISH, an obscure, complicated language that not one of them would ever attempt had they all not just happened to end up working in Finland.

Have i got a point? Hmm, maybe this: Finnish IS a hard language to learn, but some people manage just fine. You won't know until you try it.

madjr
August 31st, 2009, 09:20 PM
Thats very true...Though It may vary per school-district or region or state. Learning another language is not a high priority for our school systems which is a real unfortunate problem. Making it mandatory to learn another language in school could do wonders for international relations as well as make people aware there are more languages in the world than just American. (<---I wrote that by purpose.)

I started learning German in freshman year. I was psyched for it too because my family heritage is German. Sophomore year we had no German teacher for the 2nd course =/. That kind of ended it for me although if I ever go back to Germany I think i'd pick it up fairly quickly now.

yea it sux cuz is a million times easier to learn another language when you 10 years old or earlier (you "absorb" it fast and free without effort!). It's like incapacitating americans, making them think that the world is still FLAT

good things my parents decided to teach me 2 more languages. Now i can travel most of the world (or the internet) without that little dictionary (or the horrible internet translators) and natives making fun of you :P

anyway some schools do teach spanish and an extra language (french, mandarin, german, Japanese, etc.) good for them.

Firestem4
August 31st, 2009, 09:30 PM
are there no privately owned institutions for learning different languages in the US ??

There are plenty. As well as plenty of e-resources like Dragon Naturally Speaking or Rosetta Stone. However I was a high school student and didn't have the interest in spending more of my after-school time learning. Lol.

My Community College does have many languages though, and I may decide to study there. Though there is nothing like going to the country of choice and spending time. You'll never learn a language faster.

HappinessNow
August 31st, 2009, 09:38 PM
though there is nothing like going to the country of choice and spending time. You'll never learn a language faster.

+1

spupy
September 1st, 2009, 12:37 AM
Learning Japanese only for anime/manga is incredibly stupid, in my opinion. Or do you plan to be a wapanese for a long time?
I watch anime and learn japanese, but if there is any causality between the two, it's that I started watching anime out of interest after picking japanese. I can't say anything about Finnish, I'm not familiar with it at all. But I can say what I find interesting the japanese language: I like how it sounds, I find the kanji and kana interesting and fun to learn, the grammar has fun weirdness ("adjectives" have past tense wtf).

Btw, I was blessed by my university with free language courses, including japanese. :)

JDShu
September 1st, 2009, 12:54 AM
Learning Japanese only for anime/manga is incredibly stupid, in my opinion. Or do you plan to be a wapanese for a long time?
I watch anime and learn japanese, but if there is any causality between the two, it's that I started watching anime out of interest after picking japanese. I can't say anything about Finnish, I'm not familiar with it at all. But I can say what I find interesting the japanese language: I like how it sounds, I find the kanji and kana interesting and fun to learn, the grammar has fun weirdness ("adjectives" have past tense wtf).

Btw, I was blessed by my university with free language courses, including japanese. :)

Its rarely the only reason for people, but even if it was, so what? They enjoy a particular subculture of Japan and want to enhance that enjoyment.

chriskin
September 1st, 2009, 12:58 AM
Learning Japanese only for anime/manga is incredibly stupid, in my opinion. Or do you plan to be a wapanese for a long time?
I watch anime and learn japanese, but if there is any causality between the two, it's that I started watching anime out of interest after picking japanese. I can't say anything about Finnish, I'm not familiar with it at all. But I can say what I find interesting the japanese language: I like how it sounds, I find the kanji and kana interesting and fun to learn, the grammar has fun weirdness ("adjectives" have past tense wtf).

Btw, I was blessed by my university with free language courses, including japanese. :)

noone learns japanese just for anime or manga. once you start watching or reading them, you soon enough get to love the language you listen , the history and the legends of Japan etc

most anime are subbed less than 6 hours later these days anyway

hockeytux
September 1st, 2009, 01:02 AM
Finnish.

macogw
September 1st, 2009, 04:10 AM
That sounds interesting :) But learning 1900 kanji still sounds extremely hard... O.O it probably takes years to learn!

In grade 1, students learn 80 kanji. In grade 2, 159. In grades 3 & 4, 199 per year. In grade 5, 184. In grade 6, 180. That's 1006 over the course of the first 6 years of schooling. the other 939 are learned during the remaining 6 years of middle & high school. And then there are 285 more kanji for use in names.

eragon100
September 3rd, 2009, 05:59 PM
In grade 1, students learn 80 kanji. In grade 2, 159. In grades 3 & 4, 199 per year. In grade 5, 184. In grade 6, 180. That's 1006 over the course of the first 6 years of schooling. the other 939 are learned during the remaining 6 years of middle & high school. And then there are 285 more kanji for use in names.

The problem is that when you study the language at university, you have to learn all of those in three years :lolflag: