Come on people... really?

[hanzomon4]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas

[HappinessNow]

edit

[pwnst*r]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas

LOL, F1.

a LOT of that going around. it's comical.

[mamamia88]

yes you are right but i think alot of people are more shallow than you

[mrgnash]

That you describe yourself as: "I'm a handsome young artist in the big city", pretty much contradicts the "I don't think I'm cool part." It also reinforces the very stereotype that you're trying to dispute.

Given that Apple products are often far more expensive than equivalent (or even superior products), what else are the rest of us to infer about the motives of their customers, other than that they are horribly pretentious hipsters seeking the cachet that goes along with the Apple branding? Especially when, as one of my friends has done, said individuals actually admit that the "cool" social image that goes along with being the owner of one or more Apple products played a part in determining their purchase(s).

All in all, I think the satire of Apple-culture in one of the Simpsons episodes was not only hilarious, but sadly accurate.

[doas777]

I was asked by one of my users once, for help in finding a laptop. I asked her what she wanted to do with it, and she responded "I want it to be pink". she then showed me an add for a $2000 pos vaio (i really hate working on those).

Some people are into brand loyalty/hatred. I am willing to admit i am not immune to it, though I do try to recognize it when it comes up. you may see some above...

i do think people respond to tech phads, and I do think that apple has been the core of some of those in recent years. and several mac users I know, really think that they do "think Differant" and that differant is better.

but your right they probably aren't so pronoid that they litteraly believe that the sun shines out their arses. but they prolly do smell of axe.

[BuffaloX]

I think some of "you" probably use products much more expensive than AXE. :P

[jrothwell97]

<snip>
I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.
<snip>

I smells me a PARADOX.

Anyway, despite that apparent indecisiveness... the OP has a point. Not everyone buys a Mac because it makes them look cool (the Apple user base isn't entirely made out of hipsters).

Some people like the Mac OS, some people appreciate the customer support. True, the "Get a Mac" adverts are incredibly smug, and the idea that they're "better for art" is now somewhat void ever since Apple transitioned from PowerPC to Intel... but don't knock people for their choice of computer.

(Unless it's a Dell Adamo bought as a fashion item with the intention of becoming a faux "pretender" hipster, even worse than real hipsters, in which case, we should lop their arms off.)

[Woormy]

I was asked by one of my users once, for help in finding a laptop. I asked her what she wanted to do with it, and she responded "I want it to be pink". she then showed me an add for a $2000 pos vaio (i really hate working on those).



LOL. If all she wants is "pink", I hope you steered her towards something less than $2,000. That's maroon money!

[.Maleficus.]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas
RESPEK!

*whips out iPhone and starts jamming to some Scale the Summit*

[hanzomon4]

That you describe yourself as: "I'm a handsome young artist in the big city", pretty much contradicts the "I don't think I'm cool part." It also reinforces the very stereotype that you're trying to dispute.

Given that Apple products are often far more expensive than equivalent (or even superior products), what else are the rest of us to infer about the motives of their customers, other than that they are horribly pretentious hipsters seeking the cachet that goes along with the Apple branding? Especially when, as one of my friends has done, said individuals actually admit that the "cool" social image that goes along with being the owner of one or more Apple products played a part in determining their purchase(s).

All in all, I think the satire of Apple-culture in one of the Simpsons episodes was not only hilarious, but sadly accurate.

I describe myself that way because I am. But like I said the cool stereotype is as broke as the iphone's cool-O-rometer. I'm as geeky as they come.

Now you're right about the brand thing just for the wrong reasons. The Apple brand has a reputation for reliability, durability and ease of use. This isn't dell and it's not Windows. It's as alien, in use, to Non-Tech savvy people as Linux. People shell out the cash because.. well it's wearing a nice suit, it's breath doesn't stink, past employers have only good things to say... You get where I'm takin this? Ok.. They promote a brand and they deliver what they promise

Linux is like Will Smith in that movie...

The Apple spoof was funny but that's a spoof of the image Apple puts out. Sure you have few people that really like Apple and post endless youtube videos of their cool bling and post in forums about how their shinny new toy pwnes so and so's latest toy but I bet those kind of people exist in every possible group.


I smells me a PARADOX.



No.. that's just the AXE (I don't wear AXE).. No really what you smell is "on paper you sound like you'd fit a definition of cool". I don't

[Tristam Green]

Genuinely awesome thread. Would most assuredly read it again.

I agree with some of what you say hanzomon, but there, sadly, are people out there who do buy Apple products because of that reason :(

[aysiu]

Genuinely awesome thread. Would most assuredly read it again.

I agree with some of what you say hanzomon, but there, sadly, are people out there who do buy Apple products because of that reason :(
What Tristam Green said.

There exist (especially among Ubuntu forums members) many Apple product buyers who have legitimate reasons for picking Apple products over other similar products.

But in my experience there seems to be a large percentage (possibly even a majority) of Apple products users who buy Apple products solely because they are "cool" or "sexy."

[racerraul]

Proud to admit that I am cool, good looking (even though I have lost all my hair), a good driver and motorcycle rider, wake up in the morning smelling of AXE, eat sushi, use Linux, even support Windows servers for a living and have never ever, ever, ever, owned anything made by Apple...

Came close to buying an Apple IIgs once... but glad I didn't or I wouldn't be as cool as I am today.

[MikeTheC]

Well...

I'm not "hip" or "cool" or "rich" and I've never been. If anything, I've always been rather iconoclastic by nature, especially from my teen years onward. I'm simply saying this to be precise; whether anyone cares or not isn't required.

I first saw a Mac in person at a local electronics tradeshow. It was the first system I laid eyes on which used a GUI, and indeed it was one of the first commercial consumer computer platforms to use a graphical interface. When I saw it, I had one of those senses (gut instinct) which said "this methodology is the future". I don't think there's any question my hunch was correct. That being said, Microsoft was late to dinner with the GUI just the same as they were with Internet connectivity.

Anyhow, I have always found Apple to be the standard reference bearer for how to properly design and execute the rationale and paradigm for doing user interfaces in general and graphical ones in specific. Generally I have felt that "everyone elses' GUIs" have tended towards being inferior in one or more ways. Sometimes it's because they were sluggish, or their resolution was very sub-par (that is, less than 72 dpi) or they had no -- or simply too few -- keyboard shortcuts, or they lacked functionality, or whatever.

None of this, of course, addresses what is arguably the more important of any OS, namely the underpinnings. And vis a vis Microsoft, I don't think I'd run into too much argument here that they hardly are the ideal for how you write an operating system or software in general. That's not an "I'm an Apple fanboi" statement but rather an observation of reality.

Apple as done a lot of good for the technology industry. Clearly they've done things which aren't so hot, but then they're not a perfect company. Which, of course, is the whole point of this thread. There's been an awful lot of bitching hereabouts about how Linux users in general and some Ubuntu users in specific are anti-commercial software.

My read on that is I don't think most of the people here -- at least the ones I'm familiar with -- are necessarily anti-commercial, per se, so much as they are anti-evil-company. Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing -- heck, I'm very much of the mold of anti-evil company -- but I also believe some companies such as Apple are also being painted with a bit broad of a brush. And at the end of the day, what those of us who use their products actually *are* thinking -- if our conscious and unconscious actions and motives could be summed up as thoughts -- is simply "Wow, I'm glad I have a product which allows me to successfully accomplish X, Y or Z productive task."

Ultimately, isn't it supposed to be about using the best-suited tool for getting the job done which is what matters? I have a foot in both camps (that is to say Mac OS X and Linux) because each of them provides a benefit and value to me. I think a lot of people on here like to allow themselves to be irritated by things which they have no business being irritated by, considering that more often than not those things are other people's business.

I don't need my Government in my computer room dictating what OS I will use, and I don't need your permission or approval to use what hardware I want to run it on, either.

[mrgnash]

EDIT: Maybe it's not the best idea to get myself banned just yet.

[hanzomon4]

Well...

I'm not "hip" or "cool" or "rich" and I've never been. If anything, I've always been rather iconoclastic by nature, especially from my teen years onward. I'm simply saying this to be precise; whether anyone cares or not isn't required.

I first saw a Mac in person at a local electronics tradeshow. It was the first system I laid eyes on which used a GUI, and indeed it was one of the first commercial consumer computer platforms to use a graphical interface. When I saw it, I had one of those senses (gut instinct) which said "this methodology is the future". I don't think there's any question my hunch was correct. That being said, Microsoft was late to dinner with the GUI just the same as they were with Internet connectivity.

Anyhow, I have always found Apple to be the standard reference bearer for how to properly design and execute the rationale and paradigm for doing user interfaces in general and graphical ones in specific. Generally I have felt that "everyone elses' GUIs" have tended towards being inferior in one or more ways. Sometimes it's because they were sluggish, or their resolution was very sub-par (that is, less than 72 dpi) or they had no -- or simply too few -- keyboard shortcuts, or they lacked functionality, or whatever.

None of this, of course, addresses what is arguably the more important of any OS, namely the underpinnings. And vis a vis Microsoft, I don't think I'd run into too much argument here that they hardly are the ideal for how you write an operating system or software in general. That's not an "I'm an Apple fanboi" statement but rather an observation of reality.

Apple as done a lot of good for the technology industry. Clearly they've done things which aren't so hot, but then they're not a perfect company. Which, of course, is the whole point of this thread. There's been an awful lot of bitching hereabouts about how Linux users in general and some Ubuntu users in specific are anti-commercial software.

My read on that is I don't think most of the people here -- at least the ones I'm familiar with -- are necessarily anti-commercial, per se, so much as they are anti-evil-company. Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing -- heck, I'm very much of the mold of anti-evil company -- but I also believe some companies such as Apple are also being painted with a bit broad of a brush. And at the end of the day, what those of us who use their products actually *are* thinking -- if our conscious and unconscious actions and motives could be summed up as thoughts -- is simply "Wow, I'm glad I have a product which allows me to successfully accomplish X, Y or Z productive task."

Ultimately, isn't it supposed to be about using the best-suited tool for getting the job done which is what matters? I have a foot in both camps (that is to say Mac OS X and Linux) because each of them provides a benefit and value to me. I think a lot of people on here like to allow themselves to be irritated by things which they have no business being irritated by, considering that more often than not those things are other people's business.

I don't need my Government in my computer room dictating what OS I will use, and I don't need your permission or approval to use what hardware I want to run it on, either.

*Applauds*


EDIT: Maybe it's not the best idea to get myself banned just yet.

hey now...

[K.Mandla]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas
It may be that you are more enlightened than some others, but the few people I know personally who have invested in an iPhone have fit the stereotype you describe.

I also found it interesting that you closed your post by making the same allusion to Adidas as others were making to the iPhone.

[t0p]

If you search these forums (use google with a 'site:ubuntuforums' flag; this site's search function sucks!) you will find a great many apple fans asking how to make the ubuntu gui look just like the osx interface. Note that they don't ask 'How can I customize the gui to make it totally personalized to my exact needs', they want to make ubuntu look like an apple clone. Why? Coz they want their buddies to think they're using osx! Hell, they want ubuntu to become osx! Even when they've succumbed to the allure of free software, they still want to be visibly associated with the apple crowd.

They know ubuntu's good. But it isn't 'cool'. And why not? Coz it's not apple!

'Nuff said, you handsome young thing!

[hanzomon4]

It may be that you are more enlightened than some others, but the few people I know who have invested in an iPhone have fit the stereotype you describe.

I also found it interesting that you closed your post by making the same allusion to Adidas as others were making to the iPhone.

Please take a picture or video of these people... It would be funnier then big foot although I might die a little inside. And yeah Adidas DO make you cool... in the year 2000(or whatever year they were hot). Thought about another way and um, touché


If you search these forums (use google with a 'site:ubuntuforums' flag; this site's search function sucks!) you will find a great many apple fans asking how to make the ubuntu gui look just like the osx interface. Note that they don't ask 'How can I customize the gui to make it totally personalized to my exact needs', they want to make ubuntu look like an apple clone. Why? Coz they want their buddies to think they're using osx! Hell, they want ubuntu to become osx! Even when they've succumbed to the allure of free software, they still want to be visibly associated with the apple crowd.

They know ubuntu's good. But it isn't 'cool'. And why not? Coz it's not apple!

'Nuff said, you handsome young thing!

Well aqua looks pretty good.... ol'poop poop brown? meh.. The same thing happened with Vista.. Who here remembers when Compiz-Quinn's custom window decorator came out? We all had Vista glass and those awful pulsing buttons..

[MikeTheC]

I remember when I was in middle school, kids placed importance on how much something cost. So, if Kid A and Kid B had a particular pair of jeans, and we're talking about the identical item, but Kid A's parents bought it from nice store and Kid B's parents bought it from, say, K-Mart, then Kid A's jeans were cooler somehow.

Also, the rule was if let's say kids were throwing or tossing coins at you (pennies, nickels, etc.) and they fell on the floor, or if you simply found these coins on the floor, you didn't pick them up because that was somehow denigrating to your person.

Frankly, I think they were a bunch of idiots.

[benj1]

It may be that you are more enlightened than some others, but the few people I know personally who have invested in an iPhone have fit the stereotype you describe.

I also found it interesting that you closed your post by making the same allusion to Adidas as others were making to the iPhone.

dont you know, adidas' (adidai ?) magically transform you into a cool attractive sexy person ?
of course i just buy them for the superior build quality and comfort.

[collinp]

I don't buy things because they are "cool". I've *never* bought or used anything because it is "cool". I personally think the whole idea of being "cool" is idiotic. I use things because they get the job done and they get it done well. If I chewed my computer up and barfed it back out it would probably look better than it does now - same with my GUI desktop - but it gets the job done and well.

An example is that the iPhone does look good, but to me, it is a tool. A fairly functional tool, I might add.

[MikeTheC]

If you search these forums (use google with a 'site:ubuntuforums' flag; this site's search function sucks!) you will find a great many apple fans asking how to make the ubuntu gui look just like the osx interface. Note that they don't ask 'How can I customize the gui to make it totally personalized to my exact needs', they want to make ubuntu look like an apple clone. Why? Coz they want their buddies to think they're using osx! Hell, they want ubuntu to become osx! Even when they've succumbed to the allure of free software, they still want to be visibly associated with the apple crowd.

Or it could be, as hanzomon4 basically pointed out, that the default appearance and many of the other differently-colored variants are simply not to some users' taste and what Apple has done with Aqua is.

[juancarlospaco]

I don't think that any Apple product is cool at all.
and no im not kidding...
:)

[aysiu]

I'll have to add that to my own list of come on, people... really?

Making a Ubuntu installation look like a Mac installation doesn't mean you turned your Ubuntu installation into a Mac installation or that you want to trick people into thinking you're using a Mac (by the way, I've never seen a Ubuntu Mac clone theme that convincingly looks like a Mac, so the tricking idea really has little foundation).

All it means is you like the way Macs look.

[geekygirl]

To be 'cool' is to be a sheep.....isnt cool just a perception of the masses anyway? And who cares what the masses think...not me....

I have an iPhone, but I only got one recently not because others were using it, I was strictly a SE and Nokia person prior, but my iPhone is one of the best mobile 'devices' I have ever owned.

I can talk to my boyfriend in the US via both IM and Skype (thanks to Jailbreaking to get over the stupid AT&T requirement that VOIP cannot use their 3G network, never mind what the rest of the world wants or is allowed to do AT&T!!) and I can email, take photo's and do all that stuff I want to do - communicate at the end of the day. Far easier with my iPhone than my old SE C905 or Nokia N95 I used to have prior to that.

Then again I have never been the sort of girl that worries about what I am wearing and if it is fashionable and seen as cool by other women, and the same goes with my life choices and ultimately my phone choice.

Oh and to the OP - to describe yourself as 'handsome' in your opinion *could* make you seem conceited :P however it could just be the sign of a *healthy* self esteem ;)

remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder so unless you spend all day in front of a mirror..... :P

[cascade9]

There shallow Mac users. There is also shallow Windows users, shallow Linux users, shallow BSD users...heck there probably even a shallow Solaris user (singular, theres only going to be 1 out of the 4 people who use it) :biggrin:


I don't need my Government in my computer room dictating what OS I will use, and I don't need your permission or approval to use what hardware I want to run it on, either.

Fair enough. I do find it kind of ironic that Mac does locks you to specific hardware, but you know what your doing ;)

[lykwydchykyn]

Gosh I feel bad for Apple customers. Wouldn't it be just awful if Linux users got slapped with stereotypes and had all kinds of petty irrational motives assigned to their choice of operating system?

(That's sarcasm, friends)

There is something really weird about the Apple thing though. Guys, I'm in my mid 30's and I can tell you I have friends my age and much older who can't get over the fact that they bought a computer/phone/media player from Apple instead of $VENDOR. I swear it brings out the inner sophomore in grown people.

[lykwydchykyn]

heck there probably even a shallow Solaris user (singular, theres only going to be 1 out of the 4 people who use it) :biggrin:


I think I met that guy; he was teaching a Cisco class that I took last year. Anytime someone brought up Linux he'd say something like "I don't know why you'd waste your time with Linux when you can get a full blown Solaris OS for free."

I got the feeling he had never actually used any Linux distro, at least not in recent years. I also noticed the distinct outline of a kool-aid mustache when I got up close.

[MikeTheC]

There is something really weird about the Apple thing though. Guys, I'm in my mid 30's and I can tell you I have friends my age and much older who can't get over the fact that they bought a computer/phone/media player from Apple instead of $VENDOR. I swear it brings out the inner sophomore in grown people.

Long before Linux was any kind of factor in the world of computers, there was a hatred of Macs and Mac users by "PC" users, so frankly I've long since become inured to it, and have a rather healthily thick skin.

Linux is supposed to be all about freedom, but don't you find it ironic that the moment you mention something else, all of these "freedom of choice" folk completely jump down your throat for expressing your freedom in having made a choice that simply differs from their own?

This has been played out over and over again. One group picks on another, they get fed up and move out, and then they do the same thing to another group, and so on. The Linux lot are all about freedom and acceptance and beyond-Microsoft legitimacy. One would think they wouldn't want to pick on others as they have been.

[hanzomon4]

remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder so unless you spend all day in front of a mirror..... :P

True... I just got so tired of disagreeing with people that now I just go with it.

[lykwydchykyn]

Linux is supposed to be all about freedom, but don't you find it ironic that the moment you mention something else, all of these "freedom of choice" folk completely jump down your throat for expressing your freedom in having made a choice that simply differs from their own?


It's not really ironic; it's more that the word "freedom" has many senses and can be applied to different aspects of a situation.

Surely, Mike, you know by now that "Linux" (either in the specific or colloquial sense) is not about any one thing.

[duanedesign]

Ask 1000 people why they bought an iphone and you will get 1000 answers. On top of that no one person has just one reason. If they did that reason is made up of thousands of experiences that led to that decision.

So even if you have asked every person who owns an iphone why they bought an iphone. Or at least a large sample of users, enough to draw a conclusion. I would doubt the results.

So the only thing we can talk about is why we buy certain things, or can we? Like stated there is no one reason, every decision is the result of every life experience leading up to that point. I imagine most people have not spent enough time unraveling their consciousness to be able to intelligently say why they do anything.

[schauerlich]

I've got a MacBook2,1 and a 2nd generation iPod Touch. I guess I'm just another one of those hipsters.

[Perfect Storm]

Ask 1000 people why they bought an iphone and you will get 1000 answers. On top of that no one person has just one reason. If they did that reason is made up of thousands of experiences that led to that decision.

So even if you have asked every person who owns an iphone why they bought an iphone. Or at least a large sample of users, enough to draw a conclusion. I would doubt the results.

So the only thing we can talk about is why we buy certain things, or can we? Like stated there is no one reason, every decision is the result of every life experience leading up to that point. I imagine most people have not spent enough time unraveling their consciousness to be able to intelligently say why they do anything.

...and there's a reason why commercial and advertising is a 100 billion industry. A good commercial can talk to peoples unconscious mind. Modern Brainwash.

[inobe]

a story' sad but true, during the early eighties i liked this girl up the block' she ignored me when i said hi, for weeks i tried to get her attention so finally i gave up.

a few weeks later mom bought me a pair of adidas, that same day i walk up the block and she finally said hi, she also said she liked my adidas.

two thoughts crossed my mind "what does she really like" me or my tennis shoes :lol:

of course now i'm much older and could care less what i am wearing so as long as it's not dirty and full of holes.

[JillSwift]

I'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

[hanzomon4]

I'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

Hahahahaha!!!!!

[schauerlich]

I'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

Wait, who's on first?

[koshatnik]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas

Its called Commodity fetishism - the act of measuring oneself, or deriving self esteem and self inmportance, by the products one buys or uses, and using those choices to impose an arbitrary set of values upon other people. So, for example, people that buy an Iphone see themselves as superior to those people who bought what they would describe as an inferior version of say something by LG.

It happens, and it happens with Apple products. Apple also push this in their marketing. Products are now marketed as lifestyle choices not merely as products, so when you buy your deisgner jeans, your Mac Book Pro and your Iphone, you are making a lifestyle choice, and that choice carries with it an arbitrary value that changes dependent on the socio-political environment the person chooses to place themselves within. So the values fluctuate.

For example: I walked into a cafe in Totnes, a very hippy dippy, new media sort of town, in Devon UK. I had just done a photoshoot for someone and needed a cup of tea and a doughnut. In the cafe were 3 cliches: new media types all with Macbooks open, and iphones on the tables. All were talking loudly about what they were doing and playing with their phones alot. I though, what a bunch of idiots. An aspirational new media type would have thought, "hey, these guys are cool". A fellow new media person would have thought, "have they got the latest iphone? What spec is their macbook? What jeans are they wearing, did mine cost more?" Because thats whats important to them.

So it depends on which circle you place yourself in and what product buy in you have. I have a cheap pay as you go phone, £20 jeans, and a macbook. My macbook is a tool, not a lifestyle statement... for me. For other people, its a measure of their personal lifestyle choice and is important.

I dont get my macbook out in cafes, because I don't want to be thought of as a prick. :)

[Giant Speck]

I bought my iPhone because my Blackjack II was water-damaged and I needed a new phone that had the same features. The iPhone cost the same amount as my previous phone ($199) and my monthly bill has remained the same ($75) and the iPhone itself is far more feature-rich than my previous phone.

I did not buy the iPhone because I wanted to look cool. I am not a cool person and do not desire to look cool. I bought the iPhone because it was the most feature-rich phone I could find for the price of my previous phone. The Blackberries and HTCs are equally (and even arguably more) feature-rich, but cost more at the time I purchased my new phone than the iPhone did.

[cprofitt]

OP:

It boggle my mind that anyone would willingly tie themselves to a product that is as evil to consumers as an iPod, IPod Touch or iPhone.

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly. You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.

Apple controls what apps you can have on your iPod Touch/iPhone and specifically prohibits applications that compete with the ones they make. Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with their OS, but allowed people to still add and use the browser of their choice. Apple will not even let you install a different browser on an iPod Touch or iPhone.

In short Apple has become what they fought against in 1984.

[HappinessNow]

.

[forrestcupp]

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidaslol. You're the exception to the rule.

Everyone I know that got into Apple products did it because it made them fit in with a particular group of people, then they found out they liked it a lot afterward.


Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.:lolflag:
That's definitely the quote of the day.

[Tristam Green]

I'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

I'll see your two items to make you hot or cold, and raise you the tube of Icy/Hot I just bought.

It makes me cool AND hot, at the same time.

[chucky chuckaluck]

And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.s

that's a lot to come back from.

[gn2]

~ nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. ~

Ditch the iPhone and all that will change.
You'll be liberated from the clutches of the rotten Apple empire and liberation is cool.

[koshatnik]

If you have to try to be cool, you aren't.

If you are aware of yourself being cool, you aren't.

Coolness is inate and can't be achieved by adorning oneself with iphones, expensive clothes and fast cars.

Cool people look good in anything, doing anything.

[Bölvaður]

I smells me a PARADOX.


The entire post is a paradox to it self. Just read it through, it is very puzzling.

[MikeTheC]

i'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

+1

[the8thstar]

I use AXE. But I don't own a Mac. I must be an i-DIOT. O:)

[forrestcupp]

If you have to try to be cool, you aren't.

If you are aware of yourself being cool, you aren't.

Coolness is inate and can't be achieved by adorning oneself with iphones, expensive clothes and fast cars.

Cool people look good in anything, doing anything.

That's exactly right. If everyone understood that, there would be a lot more cool people in the world.

[doas777]

That's exactly right. If everyone understood that, there would be a lot more cool people in the world.

prolly not. the other part of being kewl, is that 90% of people can't be kewl. if it ever raises above 10%, the measure of kewlness changes and those formerly kewl people become passe pousers, and another group becomes kewl. if it isn't rare, it isn;'t remarkable, and if it isn't remarkable, then it isn't kewl.

[aaaantoine]

Every person to ever use a computer on television must be cool, because they all use Macs for some reason.

[decoherence]

folks don't buy macs because they're cool. they buy them because they aren't running windows and THAT is cool.

:guitar:

[doas777]

folks don't buy macs because they're cool. they buy them because they aren't running windows and THAT is cool.

:guitar:

non-sequitor. OS2/Warp users are not kewl, but they do not use windows.

[geogur]

it`s only ads or don`t you understand that? Welcome to marketing nothing new just the same old .

[decoherence]

non-sequitor. OS2/Warp users are not kewl, but they do not use windows.

What?? OS/2 Warp users are the HEIGHT of cool! They're so cool most of them had to be killed off.

But you're right... it's not just Windows. DOS users weren't cool, either.

[doas777]

What?? OS/2 Warp users are the HEIGHT of cool! They're so cool most of them had to be killed off.

But you're right... it's not just Windows. DOS users weren't cool, either.

lol

[hanzomon4]

Hurd... if will never be released because the universe would freeze solid from the coolness

[piousp]

OP:

It boggle my mind that anyone would willingly tie themselves to a product that is as evil to consumers as an iPod, IPod Touch or iPhone.

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly. You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.

Apple controls what apps you can have on your iPod Touch/iPhone and specifically prohibits applications that compete with the ones they make. Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with their OS, but allowed people to still add and use the browser of their choice. Apple will not even let you install a different browser on an iPod Touch or iPhone.

In short Apple has become what they fought against in 1984.

1111+
Very very TRUE

[jrothwell97]

OP:

It boggle my mind that anyone would willingly tie themselves to a product that is as evil to consumers as an iPod, IPod Touch or iPhone.

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly.
Wrong. Zune music is locked down with DRM anyway (it's Microsoft, what do you expect?), and the Amazon MP3 downloader can be configured to automatically import music into the iTunes library. Either way, there's nothing stopping you downloading music from a DRM-free music store and syncing that to your iPod.


You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.
Wrong again. The S9 doesn't support m4a music, but it's easy enough to transcode it to a compatible format. There's no DRM stopping you.


Apple controls what apps you can have on your iPod Touch/iPhone and specifically prohibits applications that compete with the ones they make.
This is true, but Apple seems to be turning over a new leaf on this (they've recently approved the Spotify app for the app store). Whether this will mean that more software will be approved is yet to be seen.


Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with their OS, but allowed people to still add and use the browser of their choice. Apple will not even let you install a different browser on an iPod Touch or iPhone.
They will, but at present only if it's WebKit based. This is a problem. However, since DRM was disabled for songs in the iTunes store, the argument about "Apple owning the entire process" forcing you to sync to an iPod is practically irrelevant.

Again - Apple-bash all you like, but get your facts right.

[chucky chuckaluck]

my friends think i'm cool because i use linux, but only because i don't look like i would.

[Exodist]

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!"

YEA! :-)



j/k.. You prob dont use cheap Axe..

[cprofitt]

Wrong. Zune music is locked down with DRM anyway (it's Microsoft, what do you expect?), and the Amazon MP3 downloader can be configured to automatically import music into the iTunes library. Either way, there's nothing stopping you downloading music from a DRM-free music store and syncing that to your iPod.

I do not care about the Zune. I was talking about Apple. I stand corrected that you can use iTunes to connect to a different store and sync it with an iPod. I thought iTunes was limited to the iTunes store only. I am aware that you can rip music from a CD or download a raw MP3 and sync it... but had no idea you can use iTunes to download music from other stores.



Wrong again. The S9 doesn't support m4a music, but it's easy enough to transcode it to a compatible format. There's no DRM stopping you.

.m4a is an Apple extension; they could have used an open standard but chose not too. If the Cowon S9 supported it... would iTunes sync it? The answer would still be NO. So the discussion on which type of encoding is used does not change the fact that iTunes will not sync the device. [link (http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/m4a)]



This is true, but Apple seems to be turning over a new leaf on this (they've recently approved the Spotify app for the app store). Whether this will mean that more software will be approved is yet to be seen.

The DOJ sending letter of inquiry might have prompted them to put up the appearance of loosening the reigns, but that does little to make the store open... they still control it. A person can not download an application from some third party website and add it to their non-jailbroken iPhone/iPod Touch. What you describe is more like them putting a air freshener in the room then really opening up the windows.



They will, but at present only if it's WebKit based. This is a problem. However, since DRM was disabled for songs in the iTunes store, the argument about "Apple owning the entire process" forcing you to sync to an iPod is practically irrelevant.

No, it really does not change the argument. I have no desire to end up in a spot where I have to burn music to a CD and then rip it back... or transcode it from .m4a to a non-apple wrapper so I can use it on a non-Apple music player.


Again - Apple-bash all you like, but get your facts right.

Thanks for your information even if I found it to be somewhat lacking.

[aysiu]

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly. You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.
Wrong. Zune music is locked down with DRM anyway (it's Microsoft, what do you expect?), and the Amazon MP3 downloader can be configured to automatically import music into the iTunes library. Either way, there's nothing stopping you downloading music from a DRM-free music store and syncing that to your iPod. You're not correcting any misinformation here.

In order for the Amazon MP3 songs to be useful to the iPhone or iPod Touch, you need iTunes.

[cprofitt]

You're not correcting any misinformation here.

In order for the Amazon MP3 songs to be useful to the iPhone or iPod Touch, you need iTunes.

But can you use iTunes to connect directly to the Amazon or some other music store? I thought that is what he was saying...

I would not count downloading it... importing it... and then syncing as a refutation of what I originally said.

[aysiu]

But can you use iTunes to connect directly to the Amazon or some other music store? I thought that is what he was saying...

I would not count downloading it... importing it... and then syncing as a refutation of what I originally said.
That was exactly my point... that your point still stands. Even though Amazon MP3 songs can be used in iPhones and iPod Touches, you still need to use iTunes to get them on the device.

[ZarathustraDK]

I just don't like the look of Apple products, it reminds me of one of those apartments where soon-to-be parents set up padding on sharp edges to protect the baby.

And they're not available in brown.

[sydbat]

<snip>

What you describe is more like them putting a air freshener in the room then really opening up the windows.Excellent pun!

[cprofitt]

Excellent pun!

Thanks... I found my nut today...

<wonders how long until the next one>

[MikeTheC]

folks don't buy macs because they're cool. they buy them because they aren't running windows and THAT is cool.

:guitar:

Big +1 to that!

[Bigtime_Scrub]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas

O-M-G! Who are you and why are you talking? I mean seriously! Oh-Mm-Gee!
<turns up volume on iPod>

I'm way too cool for you, I have the new Iphone and a macbook air, u have the old iPhone, how quaint.


<end sarcasm>

[hanzomon4]

OP:

It boggle my mind that anyone would willingly tie themselves to a product that is as evil to consumers as an iPod, IPod Touch or iPhone.

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly. You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.

Apple controls what apps you can have on your iPod Touch/iPhone and specifically prohibits applications that compete with the ones they make. Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with their OS, but allowed people to still add and use the browser of their choice. Apple will not even let you install a different browser on an iPod Touch or iPhone.

In short Apple has become what they fought against in 1984.

Do you own a video game console?

At the time I bought my iPhone it was the phone that best met my needs... and I loved the idea of touch done right imo. I listen to a lot of music, use the web all the time, I was moving (again) to a huge new city. It was/is perfect for me. I use iTunes to manage my music I have a macbook pro... my techo life sans Ubuntu fits perfectly into the Apple way of doing things, so why not?

Granted I haven't used OSX in weeks but I only need to sync my music every once in awhile and my pim data is synced via google's cloud to whatever OS I use at the time.

I like foss and wish it could do all that I need (which includes looking nice) but I will use a companies product if it does what I need. Apple's little system does, for now anyway. It's no different then my use of foss. It meets my needs and my curiosity/love of technology.

If you don't like my choices... well, you really shouldn't have an opinion as I'm not making choices that effect you. YOU AINT MY DADDY

[HappinessNow]

.

[renkinjutsu]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

I mean... you gotta be kidding me right? Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!" ? We don't have a secret handshake and never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

I mean yeah, Apple knows how to make cool looking products that do all the cool things non cool looking technology can do. Hell poop might taste like steak... but I'll never know.

I'm a handsome young artist in the big city... And nobody thinks I'm cool.. friends don't think I'm cool, I don't think I'm cool.. My own momma doesn't think I'm cool. If my phone is suppose to make me cool it's broken horribly as well as societies stereotypical idea of cool.

My iPhone is just a phone... and an ipod.. and an internet communication device... not a pair of Adidas

Despite it being a rant, your post actually made me laugh... you've got a great imagination when you're angry. It's impossible to get mad at you..


anyway.. i have a friend who is very brand loyal too.. Never owned a "PC" (so she says) in her life.. only macs, but that's because both her parents used macs.

it's like how I grew up using Crest toothpaste as a child, so when my family buys Colgate, i get miffed =\ but i still use it... it just doesn't seem right.

[Lavaeagle]

Obviously you don't go to school, if you don't have an ipod you get looked down upon or considered poor.

F1

[HappinessNow]

Obviously you don't go to school, if you don't have an ipod you get looked down upon or considered poor.

F1This is very, very sad.

[Copernicus1234]

This is very, very sad.

A lot of human beings are self gratifying egomaniacs who mostly care about looking good and having the right gadgets to be Cool(tm).

Unfortunately they can not be easily avoided since they are practically everywhere. The best you can do is try to ignore them, which they sometimes make very difficult since they love being in the spotlight.

[Giant Speck]

Obviously you don't go to school, if you don't have an ipod you get looked down upon or considered poor.

F1

When I was in school, if you bought clothes from Wal-Mart you were considered poor.

[brian183]

LOL I remember I was talking to a coworker about this about 2 years ago and he said he would never buy an apple product. I asked why and he said "I don't want my technology devices making a social statement for me." I then nearly passed out from laughing yet he made a very good point albeit hilarious.

[headflux]

They know ubuntu's good. But it isn't 'cool'.



Not sure I agree. What is cool after all? James Dean, David Bowie, Lou Reed, Salvador Dali, are/were cool - why? because they were rebels, outsiders, even when they filter into the mainstream, they remain cult icons. So by that logic, I reckon Ubuntu must be cool.

As for ipod, sure some people buy one because of some bizarre need for status, but like Google, the real reason people like it is because it has a simple, clean User Interface.

[kirsis]

I'd just like to put out there a rarely stated opinion -

Yes, I like Apple OS/apps because they look good. For the most part I can do what I need to do as fast or even faster when using FOSS apps (this applies to GUIs only, for obvious reasons). However, Mac OS just looks so damn nice that it makes me enjoy working more.

I'm not ashamed of it. In fact, I think a lot people being dismissive about eye candy and tight integration between different apps/OS components are, on some small level, reinforcing their geek rep, instead of being 100% rational :)

p.s. same applies for Apple hardware. Looks great
p.p.s. there are, of course, some other factors at play, but those get mentioned plenty, so im not gonna repeat them.

[hanzomon4]

LOL I remember I was talking to a coworker about this about 2 years ago and he said he would never buy an apple product. I asked why and he said "I don't want my technology devices making a social statement for me." I then nearly passed out from laughing yet he made a very good point albeit hilarious.

But doing something because of what other people think is just as bad as not doing something because of what other people think. I mean the serious Apple haters or just as bad as the ihipster. They are too "superior", "serious", "smart"... for itoys even if it "suits their needs"... cuz they are coolnix kids. ihipsters and coolnix kids...

We really need a barf smiley cause every time I type "suits * needs" I want to puke

[geekygirl]

ooh ooh! I know!

Why not just let it be each to their own?

Rather than the Apple haters/despisers (hate is such a strong word after all) who feel the need to accuse its product users of being 'fanbois' or iClones because they defend something publicly they actually like, to someone else who sees nothing but evil and hatred towards said company and products?

I mean, does it affect others in here (really? I think not..) that I use Apple products at the end of the day? Plenty of other people do as well, and actually *like* Apples products, but mention these sorts of things in some geek circles and somehow you lose 'geek cred' because of it? (what was the whole thing about not being a sheep or seeming 'cool' to a group of people? :p)

Dont seem to attract nearly as much politics and discussion mentioning you like to use *nix OS's in a largely Windows based public forum either.....(based on a couple of my other internet forum haunts)

*scurries off to eat more apples oranges and bananas*

[Scubdup]

Nice thread. I don't use Apple products. By and large I can't afford them. I used to use a 2nd gen iPod but it was rubbish. I love the look of the iPhone but was put off by the price. I let myself be persuaded by some Nokia fanboys that the Nokia 5800 was an iPhone killer.

That would be funny if I didn't now have to walk around everywhere with a nokia-embossed brick of woefulness. Wish I'd gone for the iPhone.

For me a Mac doesn't appeal, I like to be able to get under the hood of my PC, but for a phone, simple ergonomics are the order of the day. Different tools for different jobs, and as ever, YMMV.

[cascade9]

OP:

It boggle my mind that anyone would willingly tie themselves to a product that is as evil to consumers as an iPod, IPod Touch or iPhone.

You have to install iTunes, use iTunes, use iTune Store or Apple App Store and use iPod/iPod touch devices... Apple owns the entire process. You can not, to my knowledge, use the Zune store or Amazon music to get songs to your iPod directly. You can not use a Cowon S9 (that blows the iPod Touch out of the water if we are talking music) with the iTunes store.

Apple controls what apps you can have on your iPod Touch/iPhone and specifically prohibits applications that compete with the ones they make. Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with their OS, but allowed people to still add and use the browser of their choice. Apple will not even let you install a different browser on an iPod Touch or iPhone.

In short Apple has become what they fought against in 1984.

I can see where you are coming from. I'm not a big fan of apple because of the level of control they try to maintain. 'Bricking' jailbroken iphones? Uncool. Then again, the fact that 'jailbreaking' even exists shows that in some cases, apple is right on the bleeding edge for consumer electronics.

iPods arent that bad, theres a lot of hacking that gets done to them (hardware and software). I've almost considering buying one 2nd hand to cut up and shove a bigger hdd into (300GB+) and putting rockbox onto it-

http://www.rockbox.org/


That was exactly my point... that your point still stands. Even though Amazon MP3 songs can be used in iPhones and iPod Touches, you still need to use iTunes to get them on the device.

No, actually, you dont-

http://yuo.be/ipod.php

ipod/ipod touch/iphone manager for foobar2000

http://www.foobar2000.org/

Its 'experimental' and probably wont work if you go into the apple store and buy a brand new ipod touch/ipod phone, they tend to have the newerst firmware on them. It normally takes a while for the (non-apple) software catch up.

Apple might have locked hardware as much as they can, but some of the apple products are good enough that there are developers/hackers to write stuff around apples limits and wishes.

That pretty much says it all, really.

[alexandari]

having iStuff = total win
not having iStuff = fail

we live in a sad world ;)

and yeah,I dont have any Apple products,just because I dont give a **** about them.
+ there are so much better and cheaper products for the same use,as the Apple ones.

[aysiu]

No, actually, you dont-

http://yuo.be/ipod.php

ipod/ipod touch/iphone manager for foobar2000

http://www.foobar2000.org/

Its 'experimental' and probably wont work if you go into the apple store and buy a brand new ipod touch/ipod phone, they tend to have the newerst firmware on them. It normally takes a while for the (non-apple) software catch up.
The point still stands.

[Jesus_Valdez]

I bought an iPod Touch beacuse I look totally cool sitting on Starbucks drinking something green and surfing the web, also, I told my friends it's an iPhone.

[cascade9]

The point still stands.

'Experimental' in this instance is probably closer to what you would expect from stable linux software than anything else. Its a 3rd party done by a single guy .dll, and I'm pretty sure its labeled like that to avoid any possible issues. Not because of any real problems from it.

"Probably" might be the wrong word, 'possibly' would be more accurate. Even if it didnt work on the newest hardware, thats still a tiny % of ihpone/ipod touch owners.

[ticopelp]

I had an acquaintance who rode this particular hobby horse for nearly a decade. He referred to all Apple users as "THEM" and maintained that anybody who bought an Apple product was a shallow hipster doofus who only cared about appearances. He even made a web page devoted to mocking all things Apple and talking about what ignorant sheep they all were (not some... all).

This summer, he bought an iPhone. Now he talks about how much he loves Quicktime and having a browser in his phone. Now that he owns an Apple product, suddenly it's no longer a crazy cult full of idiot conformists. Imagine.

I had a good laugh over that.

As always, I agree with the people who say use what works for you and don't worry about the rest of it.

[Tristam Green]

When I was in school, if you bought clothes from Wal-Mart you were considered poor.

Guess where they bought their clothes from when they got out of college.

[HappyFeet]

Using Apple products does tell the world one thing though. That you have a lot of disposable income.

[MoxieAndWhimsy]

Blah. Much as I do love Apple, I think OSX has a somewhat blocky interface — not visually blocky mind you. It's just not as workflow friendly to me as a custom interface. Making use of things that work though is definitely not a "bad thing". I <3 Scale across workspaces for quick visual overview. Addiction to quirks like that eventually pulled me away from my beloved Xfce.

[MoxieAndWhimsy]

Hm. I have such a love-hate relationship with Apple software. I'm happy to use them, but I just don't feel like they work as well on non Apple hardware. I have this irrational dislike for Quicktime and iTunes — even though the first time I installed Quicktime on what must've been windows 3.1/DOS or some ancient OS, I thought it was the neatest thing ever.

It was terribly annoying that most of my music didn't "just work" with my Pismo, The component expansions didn't leave particularly frustrated dents on my memory though.

[MoxieAndWhimsy]

Rather than the Apple haters/despisers (hate is such a strong word after all) who feel the need to accuse its product users of being 'fanbois' or iClones because they defend something publicly they actually like, to someone else who sees nothing but evil and hatred towards said company and products?


Wait. There are actually people who see nothing but evil and hatred towards Apple? I don't even hate Microsoft anymore. Where does all this hate for computer companies come from?

Can't we just get along?

[hanzomon4]

Using Apple products does tell the world one thing though. That you have a lot of disposable income.

Not at all!!!

Wooo, I had a good job for a little while and I worked it 60+ hours a week. That was to pay off a gigantic school bill so I could go back. But ah Man, I tell ya what... this school has forced me into some impossible corners. Each time I magically, barley, make it out... It's like some monster of the week tv show

[JDShu]

@OP: Very funny post. Entertaining to read, thanks!

On "Coolness and ipods": Where I went to school, people were pretty well-off, some more so than others. However, most people wouldn't try to get all the latest and hip gadgets... too much and you were the "rich kid" and all the negative stereotypes that go with that. Within my particular group of friends, we all bought super budget stuff in the electronics district of the city, cause it implied "smart with our money"... and that was what we called "cool"

:guitar:

[doas777]

Excelent BOFH on Mac users (one of the funniest of '07 in fact)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/28/bofh_episode_33/

[sydbat]

Excelent BOFH on Mac users (one of the funniest of '07 in fact)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/28/bofh_episode_33/

:lolflag:

[cprofitt]

Do you own a video game console?

No.


At the time I bought my iPhone it was the phone that best met my needs... and I loved the idea of touch done right imo. I listen to a lot of music, use the web all the time, I was moving (again) to a huge new city. It was/is perfect for me. I use iTunes to manage my music I have a macbook pro... my techo life sans Ubuntu fits perfectly into the Apple way of doing things, so why not?

Why not? Simply put -- Freedom or Liberty. Apple has stolen that from you. You get 'ease of use' and lose 'freedom'. If that is something you are comfortable with then by all means over pay for the products and be happy. I have no need to intrude on your life; it is yours.


I like foss and wish it could do all that I need (which includes looking nice) but I will use a companies product if it does what I need. Apple's little system does, for now anyway. It's no different then my use of foss. It meets my needs and my curiosity/love of technology.

Just with a little bit of lock-down and lock-in.


If you don't like my choices... well, you really shouldn't have an opinion as I'm not making choices that effect you. YOU AINT MY DADDY

I never sought to impose on your choices. I chose to educate people that are considering making the same choice you have. Though it should be noted that this thread had one purpose -- to impose its choices on the rest of us.

[vexorian]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

Since we live in a world in which people would pay 1000 USD for an iphone app that does nothing but "prove you are rich", that does not sound particularly far-fetched.

[BuffaloX]

Apple might have locked hardware as much as they can, but some of the apple products are good enough that there are developers/hackers to write stuff around apples limits and wishes.

That pretty much says it all, really.

You are aware that Apple is trying to make these hacks illegal aren't you?
THAT pretty much says it all, really.


As always, I agree with the people who say use what works for you and don't worry about the rest of it.

I think that's what some would call the "sheep" part.

[DigitalDuality]

Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

no

[cprofitt]

and people brought up the other problem I have with Apple...

iTunes and Quicktime are, by definition, trojans.

They install themselves, but then later via updates they install other products w/o telling the user.

[RabbitWho]

I don't resent people with iPhones because I think they're trying to be cool.. I resent them because they have more money than I do and they think an iPhone is a good way to spend it I mean of all the things you could do with your money.. you buy a phone? I mean! There are people starving in the world! I want to upgrade from dual core to core duo!

Anyway Apple have a good reputation for not getting viruses and a lot of people are looking for an alternative to Windows. I was afraid to use linux for years because I thought you had to be a programmer, I think this is how a lot of people feel. I've always hated iPods but whenever I talk about the disadvantages with people they always say "Oh but it's so easy..."

People buy the products they want that suit their needs, unfortunately they don't know about the alternatives all the time, but if they do, and they still choose apple, that's their choice and everyone shouldn't be so insecure, to each their own. If apple and windows didn't exist do you think linux would still be free? Not a chance!
Just imagine you have a product and you're the only one that has it, everyone in the world wants it, wouldn't you think about charging 50c for it? seeing as how that would make you a millionare and it's only 50c?

[vexorian]

There are apparently not enough hackers interested to allow me to replace the firmware in recent ipod releases. Thanks apple for so succesfully locking it up...


Really, I got an ipod for free as a prize, and I think I got robbed.

[hanzomon4]

No.



Why not? Simply put -- Freedom or Liberty. Apple has stolen that from you. You get 'ease of use' and lose 'freedom'. If that is something you are comfortable with then by all means over pay for the products and be happy. I have no need to intrude on your life; it is yours.



Just with a little bit of lock-down and lock-in.



I never sought to impose on your choices. I chose to educate people that are considering making the same choice you have. Though it should be noted that this thread had one purpose -- to impose its choices on the rest of us.

Apple didn't steal a thing from me. I chose to use their ecosystem because it was better to put it simply. I'm not so consumed with software freedom that I'll take a piece of junk with a gleeful smile because it runs/supports linux. I needed a good phone, a good music/video player, and something to help me not get lost. That was the iPhone in 2008 and hey, I had a good job so I could afford the 300 price tag (I don't know were other guy got 1000).

Lockin.... so what! I'm not going to hack the thing and it already does what I want really well. And thank you for your educational efforts but I was using linux full time 2 years before I had an Apple anything. My tech is more then savvy but contrary to what the hardest of the hardcore think foss is not superior to everything, sliced bread is still pwning everything/


There are apparently not enough hackers interested to allow me to replace the firmware in recent ipod releases. Thanks apple for so succesfully locking it up...


Really, I got an ipod for free as a prize, and I think I got robbed.

Oh come on.. a few of you want a techno lego. I mean really, is it that the ipod is bad or is it that you can't get your geek on with it?

[Wiebelhaus]

Do you honestly think we wake up each day, look in the mirror with popped collar, sunglasses, a smug grin... smelling of AXE and say "Microsuck it world! Cuz iRule!!!"

What do you mean? I do.




j/k thanks for the laugh , I do however agree with you.

[Giant Speck]

I don't resent people with iPhones because I think they're trying to be cool.. I resent them because they have more money than I do and they think an iPhone is a good way to spend it I mean of all the things you could do with your money.. you buy a phone? I mean! There are people starving in the world! I want to upgrade from dual core to core duo!

You want to upgrade from a dual core to a core duo? But there are people starving in the world!

[vexorian]

Oh come on.. a few of you want a techno lego. I mean really, is it that the ipod is bad or is it that you can't get your geek on with it? I happen to just have the zealous desire to actually own the devices I buy... I'd like the highligthed menu color to be gray and not blue. Why? I have no idea why, I am just an user but I'd like so. Easy to use apple just does not agree.

I want to buy music from other stores other than itunes. No, I do not agree just because they made the device they are allowed to lock me into their own store, that's stupid.

I'd also like to be able to play OGG music files. Why? Because it is an used format, it may not be a defacto standard like mp3, but very few of the other formats ipods read are actually as important as mp3 anyway...

I'd like to actually be able to make a game for my ipod, and make it available to people like you, for free, without anybody acting as a moral police + gatekeeper of it. If this happened there would probably be many games and software for the ipod (and this is before iphone times)

I'd also like to be able to play a video, even if my nano is not 'supposed' to do so.

I would LOVE to say, plug my ipod to any of those devices out there that support FAT32 music players that just work by storing the music in folders. But nope, the locked, hard to parse itunes db attacks again.

I know that maybe demanding all that from apple may be too much. But all those things have actually happened, and they were called 'rockbox' and many guys, including actual users that loved their ipods but just wanted a little more customization used it. Some ipod fans loved the fact they could play doom on it.

... Apple HATED it that's the only thing I can conclude after they spent time and resources into making sure such a thing like rockbox never happened again to their new ipods, they began encrypting their firmware and making it excessively hard to redo it. So much that I even after 2 years of ownership of my ipod nano no progress has been made.

Apple actively, spending resources on screwing their own users' choices. They worked actively not in improving the ipod's quality, but in reducing it. I know at least my ipod nano is a little machine that has a lot of potential, but I can't take it to its potential, because apple does not want me to. Why? I don't really understand this company. I can actually understand MS, but Apple is much, much harder to understand.


Oh sure, you will throw up that only geeks care about the stuff I mentioned, but so what? I am a user, and I as an user get to decide what things to like in a music player or not. The fact the rest of the users are stupid or morons that don't care does not mean I am wrong. And for all what I know, rockbox's success suggests me that I am not the only user that cares.



I find being/running free software and not having lock-in as part of my judgement for what thing is good and what thing is bad. I wouldn't pick FOSS that was "bad". But freedom is a good factor to consider when picking stuff. It is not like we had no choice.


Apple didn't steal a thing from me. I chose to use their ecosystem because it was better to put it simply. I'm not so consumed with software freedom that I'll take a piece of junk with a gleeful smile because it runs/supports linux. I needed a good phone, a good music/video player, The fallacy in your argument is that you are justp plainly assuming there are not better devices, I am sorry, but there are. Oh, and they can actually play OGG. uh oh! As if really, perhaps the only 'good' thing about the ipod is that it shows album art when playing a song, but come on, I'd pick flexibility over it everyday... And there are better "smart" phones as well. The quality/price ratio is something that apple does not really do well...


Honestly, for like 1 tenth of the cost of an ipod, you can get taiwaneese music players that work and look very cool... They won't play ogg or allow me to customize, but the ipod doesn't either... At least losing one of these to a thief is not as painful as losing an ipod, yet they actually are more usable...


--
So honestly, we like to believe people choose to buy these things because they think they make them look cool. That's because such decision at least has some logic. Our faith in humanity is so large that we'd rather not think they do it because they actually think it is better. Cause THAT would mean the world is doomed and we are getting dumber.

[ticopelp]

I think that's what some would call the "sheep" part.

Not really sure what that's supposed to mean.

[Tipped OuT]

The only "cool" Apple products are the iPhone and the iPod. I don't see people walking around in high school saying, "Check out my new Mac Book!".

So the whole "People only buy Apple products because they think it's cool" thing doesn't really apply. Soon, just like everything else in the trendy world, iPods and iPhones will suck and people will have moved on.

Any one remember the "Choclate cell phone" (http://www.savagexi.com/photos/lg800.jpg)?

[HappyFeet]

I happen to just have the zealous desire to actually own the devices I buy... I'd like the highligthed menu color to be gray and not blue. Why? I have no idea why, I am just an user but I'd like so. Easy to use apple just does not agree.

I want to buy music from other stores other than itunes. No, I do not agree just because they made the device they are allowed to lock me into their own store, that's stupid.

I'd also like to be able to play OGG music files. Why? Because it is an used format, it may not be a defacto standard like mp3, but very few of the other formats ipods read are actually as important as mp3 anyway...

I'd like to actually be able to make a game for my ipod, and make it available to people like you, for free, without anybody acting as a moral police + gatekeeper of it. If this happened there would probably be many games and software for the ipod (and this is before iphone times)

I'd also like to be able to play a video, even if my nano is not 'supposed' to do so.

I would LOVE to say, plug my ipod to any of those devices out there that support FAT32 music players that just work by storing the music in folders. But nope, the locked, hard to parse itunes db attacks again.

I know that maybe demanding all that from apple may be too much. But all those things have actually happened, and they were called 'rockbox' and many guys, including actual users that loved their ipods but just wanted a little more customization used it. Some ipod fans loved the fact they could play doom on it.

... Apple HATED it that's the only thing I can conclude after they spent time and resources into making sure such a thing like rockbox never happened again to their new ipods, they began encrypting their firmware and making it excessively hard to redo it. So much that I even after 2 years of ownership of my ipod nano no progress has been made.

Apple actively, spending resources on screwing their own users' choices. They worked actively not in improving the ipod's quality, but in reducing it. I know at least my ipod nano is a little machine that has a lot of potential, but I can't take it to its potential, because apple does not want me to. Why? I don't really understand this company. I can actually understand MS, but Apple is much, much harder to understand.


Oh sure, you will throw up that only geeks care about the stuff I mentioned, but so what? I am a user, and I as an user get to decide what things to like in a music player or not. The fact the rest of the users are stupid or morons that don't care does not mean I am wrong. And for all what I know, rockbox's success suggests me that I am not the only user that cares.



I find being/running free software and not having lock-in as part of my judgement for what thing is good and what thing is bad. I wouldn't pick FOSS that was "bad". But freedom is a good factor to consider when picking stuff. It is not like we had no choice.

The fallacy in your argument is that you are justp plainly assuming there are not better devices, I am sorry, but there are. Oh, and they can actually play OGG. uh oh! As if really, perhaps the only 'good' thing about the ipod is that it shows album art when playing a song, but come on, I'd pick flexibility over it everyday... And there are better "smart" phones as well. The quality/price ratio is something that apple does not really do well...


Honestly, for like 1 tenth of the cost of an ipod, you can get taiwaneese music players that work and look very cool... They won't play ogg or allow me to customize, but the ipod doesn't either... At least losing one of these to a thief is not as painful as losing an ipod, yet they actually are more usable...


--
So honestly, we like to believe people choose to buy these things because they think they make them look cool. That's because such decision at least has some logic. Our faith in humanity is so large that we'd rather not think they do it because they actually think it is better. Cause THAT would mean the world is doomed and we are getting dumber.
You are my hero.

Did anyone else hear that Palm Pre users that were using itunes no longer can? Apple in it's ultimate wisdom decided to cut off some of its customer base via an update. Smart move. Maybe they'll all run out and buy iphones now. :rolleyes:

I guess I am not cool enough (or rich enough) for Apple. <sigh>

[juancarlospaco]

Why Apple sells Microsoft products bundled with the PCs ???

[hanzomon4]

AHHHHH!!! I am not quoting that but I'll respond. You want a lego... a cuttlefish like device that you can morph into whatever configuration imaginable by anyone with the skill to make it happen. iLego can't play ogg? Write a plugin.. Wanna put Android on it? DO IT! Nothing wrong with that.

But that's not what I wanted and lets remember I was responding to a post criticizing my choice for me. As I said in 2008 iPhone was the best device with no real respectable competition. Now there's more; Android (Mytouch Hero), Pre, N900(freakin sweet!!). On paper it looks like I could get freedom without sacrificing anything now but that was not the case in 2008.

Now Apple and their practices I've been critical of on the forums and was called a foss zealot. I'm still think their lockin is wrong, deliberate, immoral.. But that does not make their products bad. The iPhone was the best money spent on tech I ever made. It suited my needs and Apple's bad behavior didn't really effect me because I had no desire for an iLego and I use their software/hardware

DISCLAIMER: I was required to purchase a macbookpro through my school. It's an Art school and they have volume licenses for thousands of dollars worth of software that I need to use and get to use for free while I'm in school.... I would have bought one anyway cause it's a nice laptop.

I just felt that it was bit disingenuous to say that you feel robbed for getting a FREE ipod. It does what Apple says it does really well. If all of your music is ogg ipod ain't for you... ya know, the whole suits your needs thing. Is all of your music in ogg?

But anyway the point of this thread is just too say... hey Apple meets needs too. Just because they make aesthetically pleasing devices does not make the people who by them peacocks or uninformed.

Some people do buy or use things because they think it makes them cool. I'm sure some here thought the world would freeze from their coolness when they switched to Ubuntu full time. Similarly some people use or buy things because of an ideal or cause. I think more then a few people here altered their purchases so that linux would better suit their needs because they believe in the foss ideals intimately.

So why do Apple users get painted with the broad negative brush? Because they're "cool" products, expensive, closed to the extreme? It's not my fault, nor is it my fault that my needs are best meet by one of their products.

All of us here really like technology and are pretty well informed intelligent consumers. The fact that many of us have an Apple something should prove all of the "people only buy Apple to be cool" statements as false. I mean we followed our own drum to a lifetime of free quality software... We're already cool

except me... NAW!!! I can be cool too :lolflag:

[BuffaloX]

Not really sure what that's supposed to mean.

You were asking people to just behave like sheep, and not worry about the consequences of their choices.

[ticopelp]

You were asking people to just behave like sheep, and not worry about the consequences of their choices.

Not at all. I was saying people should use the computing tools that work for them, and not get upset about what tools other people are using, or why. I'm more for leading by example than lecturing and stereotyping.

[MikeTheC]

So the whole "People only buy Apple products because they think it's cool" thing doesn't really apply. Soon, just like everything else in the trendy world, iPods and iPhones will suck and people will have moved on.

But as the iPhone is by now clearly not a "fad" then to what do you attribute its "inevitable" eventual downfall?

[BuffaloX]

Not at all. I was saying people should use the computing tools that work for them, and not get upset about what tools other people are using, or why. I'm more for leading by example than lecturing and stereotyping.

That's not at all what you wrote:

As always, I agree with the people who say use what works for you and don't worry about the rest of it.

"IT" Cannot mean other people.
"Worry" and "upset" is not quite the same either.

Anyway I believe it is perfectly valid to worry about what tools other people are using, for example more than 60% still use Windows XP, which is the basis for most botnets, which can be used maliciously against anyone.

But I agree with your modified statement: Lecturing and stereotyping is bad.
But where's the line between lecturing and educating and informing?

[BuffaloX]

But as the iPhone is by now clearly not a "fad" then to what do you attribute its "inevitable" eventual downfall?

Next thing from Apple perhaps. :P

[JC Cheloven]

Congratuations to the OP. 124 answers is a good deal for a flaming thread. And counting...
Just a toutght: an apple monopoly would be worse than m$'s one. They lock both hardware and software.

[hanzomon4]

Congratuations to the OP. 124 answers is a good deal for a flaming thread. And counting...
Just a toutght: an apple monopoly would be worse than m$'s one. They lock both hardware and software.

I tried to make it funny O:)

[Lavaeagle]

Well...

I'm not "hip" or "cool" or "rich" and...what hardware I want to run it on, either.

This is why you'll be forgotten.

This thread is the shtick

Gotta hand to the itouch gun application, where you can shoot it at people, I myself have been murdered in cold blood many times.

[doas777]

Not at all. I was saying people should use the computing tools that work for them, and not get upset about what tools other people are using, or why. I'm more for leading by example than lecturing and stereotyping.


people say that a lot, but the reality is that choosing a platform limits, rather than enables. there are compatibility concerns, proprietary lock-in, and Intellectual property control.
your idea has merit, but only in a world where there is no IP. until then it's idealistic to say the least.

[pwnst*r]

Next thing from Apple perhaps. :P

typical.

[Tipped OuT]

But as the iPhone is by now clearly not a "fad" then to what do you attribute its "inevitable" eventual downfall?

English?

[pwnst*r]

English?

looks fine. read again.

[Giant Speck]

looks fine. read again.

+1, though the word "then" seems a bit misplaced.

[tubezninja]

people say that a lot, but the reality is that choosing a platform limits, rather than enables. there are compatibility concerns, proprietary lock-in, and Intellectual property control.
your idea has merit, but only in a world where there is no IP. until then it's idealistic to say the least.

Some would say that world without IP is even more idealistic.

And I disagree that choosing a platform limits. On the contrary, having the ability to choose between linux, OR mac or Windows is quite enabling, and allows people do sleect the platform that fits them best. No platform is perfect. Not even the open ones.

[hanzomon4]

Some would say that world without IP is even more idealistic.

And I disagree that choosing a platform limits. On the contrary, having the ability to choose between linux, OR mac or Windows is quite enabling, and allows people do sleect the platform that fits them best. No platform is perfect. Not even the open ones.

+1... I've been really exited by the smart phone market where it seems like we have the kind of healthy competition that I would love to see on the desktop. Android, WebOS, Maemo, OSX, Win Mo, Blackberry OS.. All of them are good and different, users really have choice.

Choice exists on the desktop but the level of competition isn't nearly as healthy. The alternatives to Windows and OSX are great they just don't have the level of visibility to consumers as the smartphone OSes. I think that's because with a smartphone you basically get the "Apple" experience of buying a unified package.

But yeah I agree, I think the choice is in the competition not the platform.

[Tipped OuT]

+1, though the word "then" seems a bit misplaced.

No, I meant maybe lower down the vocabulary a bit so I can understand. I'm only a 9th grader. Sheesh.

[pwnst*r]

+1, though the word "then" seems a bit misplaced.

a little, but it's still English.

[pwnst*r]

Some would say that world without IP is even more idealistic.

And I disagree that choosing a platform limits. On the contrary, having the ability to choose between linux, OR mac or Windows is quite enabling, and allows people do sleect the platform that fits them best. No platform is perfect. Not even the open ones.

poet for forum mod.

[Nick Brohman]

When you're as great as I am, it'a hard to be humble.

I've just washed my face and can't do a thing with it.

Two headings on writing pads that an aunt once gave as Xmas presents.

I worked out a long time ago that I was the 'coolest person' of my acquaintance.

One doesn't have to 'Have ...'.

I drive a 10 yr. old car.

I have aroof over my head.

I now have a PC.

I got a 1st generation mini-disc player/recorder and a Walkman in 2000 but had to sell it.

4 yrs. ago, I got a 2nd gen. MD set up & don't wish to change to iPod as MD will do for me.

CD compression was enough for me - I still play LPs just so I can feel the warmth/depth of music
(& crackles) that i want to listen to.

I have an A470 Powershot digital camera & that's good enough for now. When I know what I'm trying to do in Digitography, I'll then think about a DSLR camera (if the funds are available).

Digitography you say.

I thought of that word about 2 hrs. ago that's 'cool' to me as I may have just introduced a new word to the (English) lexicon.

I 've got all that I need, and more than I want.

No one likes a braggart, yet every Autobiography ever written, is written by a braggart!

The latest "cool' car to have will still kill if that piece of 'cool' car is not driven properly.

It is more about how you relate to humanity that will define cool for me.

Strut your cool, I'll find you foolish and vain.

Use your cool without fanfare and I will admire you.

The coolest thing I ever read about Computing was an artcle about this bloke in Sweden & his aims with Linux.

It took me 30 yrs. to find some one who would inspire me to 'get in to' computing and THAT is COOL to me.

See yoU In The Sunshine - Nicko:guitar:

One smile has more power than a thousand scowls.

ps I'm tall, dark & handsome (but only I know the truth),
I'm the best cook in the world (sitting at this desk.....)
I'm not a handsome young artist etc.,

I am in accord with a lot of what MikeTheC says, for me the technology would never replace the brain & circumstances of living my life meant that I wasn't ready to 'compute' until the Philosophy of Linux was revealed to the world.

I think a lot of people have missed "The Point" (find the animated film of that name & you might get "The Point" N

[chessnerd]

...never have I congregated, or heard of a congregation, in a back alley with a bunch of iHippies to gush over how we can seamlessly sync our 4 million songs 10 gazillion photos and OMG!!!PONIES!?!?! amount of contacts, emails, and puppy power while setting our docks to maximum zoom just for the added technological thrill.

Uh, actually, at GVSU there is the Apple User Group (http://www.gvsu.edu/studentlife/stuey/organization.htm?organizationId=FC5FF5C4-9709-B086-6085ED1AA0E80C55). It may not be in a back alley, but it is a congregation of Mac users...

As for the "Doesn't think it makes them cool" point:
I asked a friend how much he paid for his Mac and he claimed it was $3200. That, in my humble opinion, is a crime against all that is good in this and every other universe. The specs on his computer (17" screen, 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD) don't warrant thirty-two hundred dollars. A comparable Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. would probably run half of that or less. If that isn't about status, please explain to me people who buy Hollister clothes for more than twice what Old Navy would run? Or why my sister wants a Couch purse when her other ones seem to work just fine. That extra $1600 isn't just paying for you to be able to use an OS. It's paying for you to be able to say "I own a Mac."

[murderslastcrow]

Actually, I have a few friends who use Macs and boot primarily into Ubuntu. They got a Mac, didn't like it, then realized there was a better option- Macs actually have very nice hardware (64-bit as well), so it's not too bad of an option in that case.

Again, you can get a naked PC or a system76 with higher specs for lower price, but it'd be a sad waste of a computer to throw away a perfectly suitable Macbook just because of the software on it.

I think we rarely use electronics to express our self-image, when it comes to hanging out/going out on the town.

[Nick Brohman]

I'm cool.

I bought air conditioning.

That makes me cool.

Plus, my heater makes me hot. I am led to understand that it's good to be hot. How cool is that? Answer: It's not cool, unless it's broken. Then it can get kinda cold.

I would make Chocolate Mousse for the Sweets menu of ......

Some of the process involved working in a walk-in coldroom....

I would raise a sweat whilst doing so........

Can you tell if it is cool to be hot in a coldroom?

Nicko:guitar:

One can Remember To Forget
One should not Forget To Remember

[hanzomon4]

Uh, actually, at GVSU there is the Apple User Group (http://www.gvsu.edu/studentlife/stuey/organization.htm?organizationId=FC5FF5C4-9709-B086-6085ED1AA0E80C55). It may not be in a back alley, but it is a congregation of Mac users...

As for the "Doesn't think it makes them cool" point:
I asked a friend how much he paid for his Mac and he claimed it was $3200. That, in my humble opinion, is a crime against all that is good in this and every other universe. The specs on his computer (17" screen, 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD) don't warrant thirty-two hundred dollars. A comparable Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. would probably run half of that or less. If that isn't about status, please explain to me people who buy Hollister clothes for more than twice what Old Navy would run? Or why my sister wants a Couch purse when her other ones seem to work just fine. That extra $1600 isn't just paying for you to be able to use an OS. It's paying for you to be able to say "I own a Mac."

What? I can't find a system with those specs.. The closest is th 17inch macbook pro but the clock speed is 2.88 and the price is $2,400. The closest mac I could find to $3,200 was an 8core Xeon Mac Pro monster.

Now fashion.. I'm working to understand. A few of my friends are in the fashion program and they raise it to high art. Fashion is just something I've never understood so I don't know how to approach it in an analytical way. Fashion can't be broken down the same way tech can. I mean a toga is functional as clothing but you won't get a job at a bank wearing one.

I think when it comes to fashion we would need to explore image and it's practical importance in society. This could possible touch on the Apple/Cool thing. I mean does having an Apple Product produce any measurable effects in regards to image and does this have any real impact on a persons life?

I know from these forums that it does effect the way some people view you and it's quite negative. But unlike clothes I don't think this effects me in any major social way. I doubt anyone would turn me down for a job or disassociate themselves from me because I own a mac or the opposite. However if I dressed like a typical homeless person I bet people wouldn't even look me in the eye.

[Nick Brohman]

G'day,

I know two blokes, who were 'snobbed' by a car salesman because of three
things, long hair, a beard and their manner of dress.

One of these fellas owned his own trucking business & the other was in charge of a major MV workshop.

Both could buy the car ('69 Camaro) without even worrying about cost.

Apparently, the salesman had to get a jaw recostruction after his hit the ground.

They tell me he looked very surprised as they drove off in... a '69 Camaro.

Not a very smart salesman, was he?

Those lads did not have to look cool, they just were!

I've been a fashion plate but it was only a phase i'm glad I grew out of.

Old bastards like me will recall when "Rock'n'Roll Animal"/"The Dark Side Of The Moon" were released.

I only bought Pink Floyd 'cos Lou Reed wasn't my 'scene'.

I didn't play "Dark...." after a month 'cos I heard it everywhere I went.

My 1st car was a Beetle and I was 'uncool' but I did not care because it was MY car, my choice. A Beetle was uncool to a teenage boy in Australia in the 60's. I did buy the car for one reason, but the moment I started driving my 1st car, I had made a choice that made me cool (in MY eyes).

I bought the VW 'cos it had a four-on-the-floor gearbox.

Nowadays, I'm always half cool (after having a stroke, my left side is always cool).

You do know that there is some one at this very moment dreaming of the next "cool" fad.

Why not beat them to it!

Stay Cool - Nicko

'Tis better to be a human bein',
Than to be a baked bean!

[Nick Brohman]

Something else I find 'cool'.

I write backwards on any card that I'm asked to sign as part of a group, (Birthday, get well & bon voyage cards).

I do it for several reasons.

That message of mine will be read when others might just be glanced at.

I find that cool.

The 'must have' syndrome stays with some people all their life, most of us realise that having what you need is often more than what you need.

If you live in the Western society, just having $2 in your pocket makes you richer than more than 90% of the world population.

One of my bosses had this sign on the kitchen wall

Rule No. 1 :- The Chef Is Always Right
Rule No. 2 :- Refer To Ruke No. 1

Some people have to surround themselves with inferiority so that they feel superior.

That boss had a team of good cooks, we would serve about 400 meals a night from a kitchen of no more than 500 sq. ft. of floor space.

The chef was secure in his souls, he knew (as we did) that he was a good cook, that to serve 400 + meals of hjgh quality good workers are needed.

That is how to be 'cool'.

A lot of it is all fack to bront to me. [think about that], I do/don't understand the reasons.

I've never met a tank that thinks, yet I see that there are 'think tanks'.

'I'll get out of your hair, I'll see you later'( said with NZ accent)

See yoU In The Subshine
Nicko:guitar:

ps geekygirl, just been thru, T'ville. The wreck of the SS "Yongalala' is a family grave.
Next time you look at Magnetic Is., send some good wishes to my rellies, please. N

[.Maleficus.]

I think a lot of people have missed "The Point" (find the animated film of that name & you might get "The Point" N
I know I did...

Uh, actually, at GVSU there is the Apple User Group (http://www.gvsu.edu/studentlife/stuey/organization.htm?organizationId=FC5FF5C4-9709-B086-6085ED1AA0E80C55). It may not be in a back alley, but it is a congregation of Mac users...
It's a good thing there's no such thing as a Linux User Group, because then us Linux users would be no better than those hipster Apple folk.

Oh wait. (http://www.linux.org/groups/)

As for the "Doesn't think it makes them cool" point:
I asked a friend how much he paid for his Mac and he claimed it was $3200. That, in my humble opinion, is a crime against all that is good in this and every other universe. The specs on his computer (17" screen, 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD) don't warrant thirty-two hundred dollars. A comparable Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. would probably run half of that or less. If that isn't about status, please explain to me people who buy Hollister clothes for more than twice what Old Navy would run? Or why my sister wants a Couch purse when her other ones seem to work just fine. That extra $1600 isn't just paying for you to be able to use an OS. It's paying for you to be able to say "I own a Mac."
Macbook Pros have (IMO) better displays, they have DDR3 vs. DDR2 on most Windows based PCs, wireless N, better battery life than most Windows based PCs, and most Windows based laptops don't have 500GB hard drives. You're right, the extra money isn't just for the OS, it's for the better features of the computer.

As for the clothes thing, there are many different reasons people buy clothes at one store versus another. One of my friends has to buy her jeans at The Buckle (where each pair costs upwards of $70) because no other store has her size (she's a little over 6 ft. tall and has a waist size of like, 2 or something).

[chessnerd]

What? I can't find a system with those specs.. The closest is th 17inch macbook pro but the clock speed is 2.88 and the price is $2,400. The closest mac I could find to $3,200 was an 8core Xeon Mac Pro monster.

That's why I said "claims" in my post, because I doubted he actually paid $3200 for it. I am sure that he got the $2400 version you are describing (I probably misremembered the 2.88GHz as 2.66). I didn't check Apple's website when I did that post, but I probably should have. I don't know why he would lie about that unless he wanted to make it seem like he was richer than he already does. (He also has the latest iPhone with 16GB HDD and a 23" LCD TV in his very nice dorm so I already get the fact that his parents have money...)


But unlike clothes I don't think this effects me in any major social way. I doubt anyone would turn me down for a job or disassociate themselves from me because I own a mac or the opposite. However if I dressed like a typical homeless person I bet people wouldn't even look me in the eye.

Nor would someone turn you down from a job wearing a $500 suit over a $1000 one. My point is that expensive items, like Apple products or fancy clothes, don't have a proportional improvement over their cheaper counterparts. Here is one I've found for real (with research): A 15" Macbook Pro with 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $1999 (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=Nzk2MDg1OA) versus a Dell Studio 15" with 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $909 (http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-studio-1555/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~laptop-studio-new-15_anav1~~!MNMJjju&m_2=MP8600&m_3=4GB&m_6=256ATI&m_8=320GB&mo=2~MP8600&mo=3~4GB&mo=6~256ATI&mo=8~320GB). I don't think .26GHz and DDR3 vs. DDR2 RAM is worth a thousand dollars...

[juancarlospaco]

I like performance, and accorrding to recent benchmarks Karmic PWN the Snow Cat

[hanzomon4]

That's why I said "claims" in my post, because I doubted he actually paid $3200 for it. I am sure that he got the $2400 version you are describing (I probably misremembered the 2.88GHz as 2.66). I didn't check Apple's website when I did that post, but I probably should have. I don't know why he would lie about that unless he wanted to make it seem like he was richer than he already does. (He also has the latest iPhone with 16GB HDD and a 23" LCD TV in his very nice dorm so I already get the fact that his parents have money...)



Nor would someone turn you down from a job wearing a $500 suit over a $1000 one. My point is that expensive items, like Apple products or fancy clothes, don't have a proportional improvement over their cheaper counterparts. Here is one I've found for real (with research): A 15" Macbook Pro with 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $1999 (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=Nzk2MDg1OA) versus a Dell Studio 15" with 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $909 (http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-studio-1555/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~laptop-studio-new-15_anav1~~!MNMJjju&m_2=MP8600&m_3=4GB&m_6=256ATI&m_8=320GB&mo=2~MP8600&mo=3~4GB&mo=6~256ATI&mo=8~320GB). I don't think .26GHz and DDR3 vs. DDR2 RAM is worth a thousand dollars...

Well with the Macbook Pro you get:

Two Nvidia graphics cards vs one Ati
1066 ddr3 ram vs 800 ddr2
Wireless N vs wireless g
The clock speed is a little faster
The battery last a little longer
The keyboard is backlit
The Display is edge to edge
I'm not sure what the dell is made of but the mac is made from a solid Aluminum block

I would think that these things would make up the difference in price, especially the gpus. I don't own any suits but I would think that the material, design, and build quality would make up the price difference in that case.

[jrothwell97]

Nor would someone turn you down from a job wearing a $500 suit over a $1000 one. My point is that expensive items, like Apple products or fancy clothes, don't have a proportional improvement over their cheaper counterparts. Here is one I've found for real (with research): A 15" Macbook Pro with 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $1999 (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=Nzk2MDg1OA) versus a Dell Studio 15" with 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $909 (http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-studio-1555/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~laptop-studio-new-15_anav1~~!MNMJjju&m_2=MP8600&m_3=4GB&m_6=256ATI&m_8=320GB&mo=2~MP8600&mo=3~4GB&mo=6~256ATI&mo=8~320GB). I don't think .26GHz and DDR3 vs. DDR2 RAM is worth a thousand dollars...

It's a Dell.

'nuff said.

(Also: the MBP's display has a higher resolution (the Dell's is 1366x768, the MBP's is 1440x900). The MBP's build quality is better.)

[.Maleficus.]

Nor would someone turn you down from a job wearing a $500 suit over a $1000 one. My point is that expensive items, like Apple products or fancy clothes, don't have a proportional improvement over their cheaper counterparts. Here is one I've found for real (with research): A 15" Macbook Pro with 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $1999 (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=Nzk2MDg1OA) versus a Dell Studio 15" with 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and 320GB HDD for $909 (http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-studio-1555/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=19&~oid=us~en~29~laptop-studio-new-15_anav1~~!MNMJjju&m_2=MP8600&m_3=4GB&m_6=256ATI&m_8=320GB&mo=2~MP8600&mo=3~4GB&mo=6~256ATI&mo=8~320GB). I don't think .26GHz and DDR3 vs. DDR2 RAM is worth a thousand dollars...


Macbook Pros have (IMO) better displays, they have DDR3 vs. DDR2 on most Windows based PCs, wireless N, better battery life than most Windows based PCs, and most Windows based laptops don't have 500GB hard drives. You're right, the extra money isn't just for the OS, it's for the better features of the computer.


Well with the Macbook Pro you get:

Two Nvidia graphics cards vs one Ati
1066 ddr3 ram vs 800 ddr2
Wireless N vs wireless g
The clock speed is a little faster
The battery last a little longer
The keyboard is backlit
The Display is edge to edge
I'm not sure what the dell is made of but the mac is made from a solid Aluminum block

I would think that these things would make up the difference in price, especially the gpus. I don't own any suits but I would think that the material, design, and build quality would make up the price difference in that case.
The Mac is worth the extra money, just in hardware. Add on the ability to run OS X, Windows or almost any Linux and that extra $1000 isn't looking too bad after all. If none of that matters to you, obviously you shouldn't buy a Mac. For someone who wants the best hardware and most software around, they are great computers.

[MikeTheC]

It's not that everyone else builds notebook computers out of plastic. Actually, there are some other metal-cased units out there.

It has to do with build quality and attention to detail. The fact of the matter is that most case makers (especially for brand-name systems) are little interested in anything other than the glitz and wow factor for those physical surfaces the user immediately and/or typically sees. Anything else is of essentially no cosmetic or other consequence, excepting of course necessary structural reinforcement, etc.

[Bachstelze]

My point is that expensive items, like Apple products or fancy clothes, don't have a proportional improvement over their cheaper counterparts.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/funny-pictures-you-are-jealous-of-tails.jpg

Sorry, after seeing that pic on ICHC, I just had to. :D

[geekygirl]

Aren't stereotypes great...

So because I own a Mac, a few people in here will jump to conclusions and;

A) assume I have more money than sense (what I decide to spend my hard earned on is of no concern to you surely or are you jealous of my high disposable income?!)

B) think I am a hipster (to which I scoff...a LOT)

C) have no idea about computers (I am studying Computer Science part time at Uni)

D) am just a Steve Jobs iClone (a what? he annoys me like Steve Ballmer - but doesnt mean I boycott something I think is a good product, after all people still buy Windows as well...)

E) have no idea about how inferior OSX is compared to Linux (have been using Ubuntu since Warty Warthog came out in 2004, and had SUSE before that - ooh I bucked the trend and went to OSX *after* using Linux - which I run rather happily in a VM now)

F) Sold my Sony Vaio TT (you know, one of those Intel laptops that is supposedly *better* than a Mac as it comes with Vista preinstalled and you can run Linux on it, yet it cost oh so much more than my little MBP 13"...and you are whining about the price of a Mac...lol)

G) lets not forget I also have an iPhone....(reveiw parts A, B and D again to be sure)

draw your own conclusions but if you dont want and Apple, dont like OSX, dont like Apple (and the associated politics as you prefer RMS point of veiw on all things computing) thats fine...dont feel its your right to make assumptions about those that do though ok?!

[JDShu]

It's a Dell.

'nuff said.

(Also: the MBP's display has a higher resolution (the Dell's is 1366x768, the MBP's is 1440x900). The MBP's build quality is better.)

I think this is definite proof that this is all about brand image.

[Nick Brohman]

[quote=hanzomon4;7851658]Can we please just drop the "People only buy {insert apple product_probably iSomething}because they think it makes them cool" shtick?

G'day to all cool people,

Read the 5th word of hanzomons' first line.

That is the crux of this post.

Substitue Sony, Puma or any other brand for Apple.

If it wasn't for that bloody ugly thing that Apple first released, I would not be sitting here doing my thing on a PC.

The experts will correct me, but my memory tells me the biggest problem was getting the computer to 'talk' to a screen & that's 'apples'.

Being really cool is a state of mind, not a fashion/wealth statement.

If your possessions give you status, your'e insecure in your own skin.

I don't care what race, religion,etc. of the person, I care about how you treat me & humanity.

I'm no goody goody, I have done wrong in my life, I now only have energy for the positives.

I made my 1st Business Cards last week & wanted to laminate them.

I cut the cards with a straight edge & retractable blade.

I then did a layout of cards in a laminating pouch.

I had trouble keeping the cards in place. Problem - Yes. Solution - Yes.

To do a decent laminate, I got a piece of 13mm MDF, put my pouch on that, did the layout & then carried the platform to ('launch') my laminator.

I had utilised things that cost me ... lam $35,blade $2,cards 10c,pouch 4c,straight edge & mat $6 ..so for less than $44, I had utilised what was at hand, skills learnt & observed & did something I'd never done before.

I'll use that set up again but will now make more permanent version.

That is cool for me, 'cos I've got something no other person has, a "Nicko Laminator Loader".

I'll get out of your hair, I'll see you later,

Nicko:guitar:

ps this is a good argument & I'm learning all the time N