Open Office: Grrrrr

[winjeel]

I'm finding that Open Office gets more annoying the more I use it, and it's the key application for me right now. I'm finding problems with table formatting when I have to switch between MS Word and OO (I've once had a table go so horribly wrong that it went from being a 1.5 page three column table to an 80 page nothing, literally, it just disappeared and in place 80 blank pages appeared), headers and footnotes becoming tab-spaced, the ' ' marks are different, the footer system leads to five minutes of messing around in MS Word to fix (because OO creates header/footers in sections), and a cacophony of other little annoying issues. I know what your response might be, use the .odt format, but when you're collaborating it's impossible (can I can't ask other people to change to OO). And I would classify my office software literacy as being pretty darn high, so I know it's not me. However, I do see that these formatting concerns seem to be on their todo list, but that doesn't help me now.

So, that explains this question: Does MS Word 2000 work with Wine? Or, is there a serious and genuinely better word processing program than Office Writer? And I have deliberately chose the word "genuinely", as opposed to 'wannabe'. Whilst Ubuntu is pretty darn excellent, the OO program at the moment is the weakest link, I feel.

[HappinessNow]

I'm finding that Open Office gets more annoying the more I use it, and it's the key application for me right now. I'm finding problems with table formatting when I have to switch between MS Word and OO (I've once had a table go so horribly wrong that it went from being a 1.5 page three column table to an 80 page nothing, literally, it just disappeared and in place 80 blank pages appeared), headers and footnotes becoming tab-spaced, the ' ' marks are different, the footer system leads to five minutes of messing around in MS Word to fix (because OO creates header/footers in sections), and a cacophony of other little annoying issues. I know what your response might be, use the .odt format, but when you're collaborating it's impossible (can I can't ask other people to change to OO). And I would classify my office software literacy as being pretty darn high, so I know it's not me. However, I do see that these formatting concerns seem to be on their todo list, but that doesn't help me now.

So, that explains this question: Does MS Word 2000 work with Wine? Or, is there a serious and genuinely better word processing program than Office Writer? And I have deliberately chose the word "genuinely", as opposed to 'wannabe'. Whilst Ubuntu is pretty darn excellent, the OO program at the moment is the weakest link, I feel.Try Google Documents and your problems should be resolved. :P

[winjeel]

I don't use them because it's such a simplistic program and has more problems than OO, in my experience. However, I will admit that that was last year. But I do use it for critical off-site storage (ie: place to keep important stuff in case of the house burning down).

[Methuselah]

Your criteria for 'goodness' of an office program seems heavily skewed towards MS office compatibility.
In which case, you can't get much better than using Office itself.
So that's what I'd have to recommend.
But you've really hit on the disadvantage of lock-in.

I have had to open existing Word documents in a Wine-d Word viewer in order to print with the original formatting.
So I know it can be an issue.

[HappinessNow]

Your criteria for 'goodness' of an office program seems heavily skewed towards MS office compatibility.

Again, the best that I have found that is MS Office Compatible is Google Docs.

Here is nice user guide:
Google Docs in Plain English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRqUE6IHTEA

[thisllub]

Moving from Word to OO and back is a disaster.
Even Word 2007 works in Wine. You just have to Google to find out how to install it.
I prefer Abiword to OOW. Faster, lighter and nearly as "compatible"

[winjeel]

Again, the best that I have found that is MS Office Compatible is Google Docs.

Here is nice user guide:
Google Docs in Plain English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRqUE6IHTEA

I see your point. What is needed is professional formatting (with all the required bells and whistles), meeting the generally accepted style format. Also, as I said, for collaboration, it is unreasonable to expect other people to download a program specifically to be compatible with me. I don't think it's a matter of vendor lock-in (that is so totally Apple and Sony), but quality and sophistication is the issue.

Thanks thisllub, it's good to hear that I'm not the only one who's had problems. I have tried abiword before, but a long time ago, so I don't remember what it's like.

[SunnyRabbiera]

For me OpenOffice is fine, not one issue.

[ssam]

can you check that you have ttf-mscorefonts-installer (msttcorefonts on older ubuntu versions) installed. this package downloads all the microsoft fonts (arial, comic sans, time new roman etc). otherwise if you will be seeing the document with another font substituted in, and this will cause spacing issues.

also try using the latest version of openoffice, it may be due to a bug that has been fixed. there are plenty of threads on how to upgrade to OOo 3.1

[mrgnash]

Time to learn LaTeX!

[matthewbpt]

When opening and using documents that were originally formatted in Microsoft Word, Open Office causes many problems, I find this especially with the equations, and it can be very annoying because many of my lecturers post notes online in Word format (why cant they just use pdf, universally compatible!) . However other than MSO compatibility, I find OOo to be superior, and I have much less problems writing a document from scratch in OOW and MSW. People need to be encouraged to use open formats then this compatibility issue wouldn't be a problem!

[thisllub]

It would be interesting to know where things go astray with conversions.
Unfortunately I have no choice but to use Word as recruiters only accept Word docs.
After an editing session in OO the formatting is shot.

I have some other documents that I am using latex for and it is a pleasure.

[HermanAB]

To answer the original question:
Go to www.codeweavers.com and get crossover. MS Word runs perfectly on it.

[Ichtyandr]

Time to learn LaTeX!

+1
I got addicted to LyX and no word processor can replace it. Use OOo for reading mostly, and checking rtf versions of LyX output

[Ichtyandr]

To answer the original question:
Go to www.codeweavers.com and get crossover. MS Word runs perfectly on it.

Also consider a Virtualbox

[unoodles]

Better yet, if all you use is word processing, try ABIWord.

[swoll1980]

I use word processing for school only, but it seems to be pretty frequent. I use MS Word, because of compatibility issues. It seems like when you transfer docs back, and forth between Word, and an alternative, things get jumbled up.

[HavocXphere]

Every day. All my study notes are in ODF and stored in a dropbox folder...so everything is accessible from anywhere.

Works just fine for what I need. Though I most use the same functions over & over given the nature of study notes. (Think bullet points...lots).

One thing that is missing is a über compact ODF viewer that I could put in the dropbox too. Cause not all PCs have openoffice and then its a hassle to view the things.

/off topic: Would that mean I should vote for "Yes, I'm a serious user" or "Often". The one refers to frequency of use the other to nature of use.:confused: So what if I would qualify as both, which one should I select? I'd say category 1 & 2 in the poll should be combined.

[jonathonblake]

as I said, for collaboration, it is unreasonable to expect other people to download a program specifically to be compatible with me.

Why is it more reasonable for them to expect you to cater to their irrational whims, than for them to cater to your rational request?

Requiring MSO is an irrational whim, because MSO (any version) is completely, utterly, and absolutely incompatible with MSO (any version).

jonathon

[dragos240]

Sometimes. But I might use it more often in high school.

[koleoptero]

time to learn latex!

+2

[jrothwell97]

time to learn latex!
+3.

[running_rabbit07]

IMO, if you have to make professional files that require compatibility with MS Word, then you might as well use MS Word. Using Google or any other online source is idiotic if you don't want others copying your work.

I am a full time student. If my teachers require a paper, I turn it in with PDF format. When it comes to resumes, I print it out and turn it in personally. I don't think I have ever met anyone that carried a stack of floppies around at a job fair to turn in a .doc resume.

[JillSwift]

I don't think I have ever met anyone that carried a stack of floppies around at a job fair to turn in a .doc resume.
I have. Sorta. This fellow had those little business card CDs. His CV was impressive, but he got very few return calls from all his passing out of those CDs. My guess is very few of the folks who got it either knew what it was, or thought to plop it in the CD drive and read the file.

Paper's best, it only excludes the illiterate. :)

[Hyporeal]

Have you considered having your collaboration partners use this plugin?

http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf_plugin/

It enables MS Office to read and write ODF files. Then everyone can use the word processor of their choice and avoid the quirks of obscure file formats.

[running_rabbit07]

Have you considered having your collaboration partners use this plugin?

http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf_plugin/

It enables MS Office to read and write ODF files. Then everyone can use the word processor of their choice and avoid the quirks of obscure file formats.

Thanks for posting that. I am gonna mess with my teachers and attach it with a paper written in ODF. Of coarse I will be adding an afternote asking if they prefer PDF so that I don't get an F.

[hessiess]

Time to learn LaTeX!

+4, *Every* word processors output looks like garbage in comparison to a LaTeX document. and its a hell of a lot easier to manage large documents. With word processors you are constantly wasting time fixing formatting issues, not so with LaTeX.

[lykwydchykyn]

Also, as I said, for collaboration, it is unreasonable to expect other people to download a program specifically to be compatible with me. .

I tend to think it's more unreasonable for me to have to buy an expensive piece of software that doesn't run on my OS to be compatible with them than for them to download a free program to be compatible with me. But I'm weird like that.

[Bölvaður]

OOo and MSO are obsolete and do too much things to do any of them well.
You should get a proper tool that fits the job. If you are making documents to be printed out and look good, use latex, if you are just saving text, use a rich text editor, if you are collaborating with others use google documents or use as simple format as you can.

You cant be pro if you do what everyone else is doing, everyone else is a noob :)

[jonathonblake]

IMO, if you have to make professional files that require compatibility with MS Word, then you might as well use MS Word.

If I ever have to use MS Word to collaborate with somebody, they are going to have to pay me US$1,000,000 plus US$10,000 per page.

This is purely because history has repeatedly proven beyond any shadow of doubt that MS Word is utterly incompatible with MS Word.

For anything more than five pages, it is faster to retype from scratch, copying, if necessary from handwritten material, than locate the content that MS Word trashed, and deal with the formatting errors that MS Word produced when opened in a different computer.


jonthon

[apmcd47]

<Off-Topic>

Time to learn LaTeX!
-1!

+4, *Every* word processors output looks like garbage in comparison to a LaTeX document.
You are kidding! TeX fonts are horrible! And in my experience TeX treats all printers like dot-matrix printers! Only TeX Needs to know the resolution of your (device independent) PostScript printer.

and its a hell of a lot easier to manage large documents. With word processors you are constantly wasting time fixing formatting issues, not so with LaTeX.
I'll have to concede to you there, but I'd use troff (groff).
</Off-Topic>
Given TeX/LaTeX doesn't come with a Word compatibility mode this discussion belongs elsewhere, methinks!

Andrew

[mintochris]

Given TeX/LaTeX doesn't come with a Word compatibility mode this discussion belongs elsewhere, methinks!

Andrew
I think that there is actually a .doc importer for lyx.

[hessiess]

<Off-Topic>
You are kidding! TeX fonts are horrible! And in my experience TeX treats all printers like dot-matrix printers! Only TeX Needs to know the resolution of your (device independent) PostScript printer.
Andrew

Try acheving the level of consistency which can be obtained easily with LaTeX in a word processor, it is an absolute nightmare. Using a mark-up language like LaTeX or HTML, and a separate formatting definition (TeX macros, CSS) is a much beter model for document editing as a change to the styleing is automatically applied through the ENTIRE document instantly, no manual tweaking nesosery. And about the fonts, use XeTeX ;).

[apmcd47]

Using a mark-up language like LaTeX or HTML, and a separate formatting definition (TeX macros, CSS) is a much beter model for document editing as a change to the styleing is automatically applied through the ENTIRE document instantly, no manual tweaking nesosery. And about the fonts, use XeTeX ;).
Hang on - LaTeX is a macro package on TeX! You imply the other way round.

Word processors like Word and FrameMaker do use paragraph styles. IF users can be arsed to use them! Developers like MS and OOo make it easy to be lazy by putting quick-fix formatting buttons in the toolbar. Why do it right when you can click on a button?

You could improve WPs ten-fold simply by banning formatting buttons and forcing the use of catalogues. And perhaps by using catalogues properly, WPs would be more compatible. Hah! Back on topic! :guitar:

Andrew

[koleoptero]

If I ever have to use MS Word to collaborate with somebody, they are going to have to pay me US$1,000,000 plus US$10,000 per page.

This is purely because history has repeatedly proven beyond any shadow of doubt that MS Word is utterly incompatible with MS Word.

For anything more than five pages, it is faster to retype from scratch, copying, if necessary from handwritten material, than locate the content that MS Word trashed, and deal with the formatting errors that MS Word produced when opened in a different computer.


jonthon

my my, I love this post.

[running_rabbit07]

If I ever have to use MS Word to collaborate with somebody, they are going to have to pay me US$1,000,000 plus US$10,000 per page.

This is purely because history has repeatedly proven beyond any shadow of doubt that MS Word is utterly incompatible with MS Word.

For anything more than five pages, it is faster to retype from scratch, copying, if necessary from handwritten material, than locate the content that MS Word trashed, and deal with the formatting errors that MS Word produced when opened in a different computer.


jonthon

I wish you luck in getting paid.

[lisati]

As an occasional user of Open Office and occasional sharer of documents who is aware of formatting difficulties that sometimes arise, here's my $0.02:

What's wrong with using OO's ability to save in MS Office formats? The last time I checked, recent versions of OO were able to be set to automatically save in MS Office formats. Although formatting issues might still arise from time to time, it could help avoid the need for MS Office users to mess around getting hold of a plugin to let them import OO's native formats.

[running_rabbit07]

As an occasional user of Open Office and occasional sharer of documents who is aware of formatting difficulties that sometimes arise, here's my $0.02:

What's wrong with using OO's ability to save in MS Office formats? The last time I checked, recent versions of OO were able to be set to automatically save in MS Office formats. Although formatting issues might still arise from time to time, it could help avoid the need for MS Office users to mess around getting hold of a plugin to let them import OO's native formats.

I think the people having the problems may be using the older version of OO.

[orlox]

+4, *Every* word processors output looks like garbage in comparison to a LaTeX document. and its a hell of a lot easier to manage large documents. With word processors you are constantly wasting time fixing formatting issues, not so with LaTeX.
+\infty

After years of using latex, anything made on word or openoffice looks awful. Don't really get what they mention about latex fonts, I found them to be really nice.

[Chronon]

When opening and using documents that were originally formatted in Microsoft Word, Open Office causes many problems, I find this especially with the equations, and it can be very annoying because many of my lecturers post notes online in Word format (why cant they just use pdf, universally compatible!) . However other than MSO compatibility, I find OOo to be superior, and I have much less problems writing a document from scratch in OOW and MSW. People need to be encouraged to use open formats then this compatibility issue wouldn't be a problem!

That's just wrong. Anybody using equations should use LaTeX. Then they can even produce a totally portable PDF viewable on any platform. I absolutely loathe MS Word's equation formatting. I don't think OOo is where it's at either.

[jonathonblake]

I wish you luck in getting paid.

There is a reason why my contracts require either payment in full, or a non refundable deposit equal to the projected amount to be billed, prior to my starting work.

jonathon

[hessiess]

Hang on - LaTeX is a macro package on TeX! You imply the other way round.

I know, TeX is a macro language for typesetting, LaTeX is a macro package built on top of TeX, and in LaTeX you change document styling by redefining some of the LaTeX macros, which(from my understanding) are essentially just TeX macros, hence my wording.



Word processors like Word and FrameMaker do use paragraph styles. IF users can be arsed to use them! Developers like MS and OOo make it easy to be lazy by putting quick-fix formatting buttons in the toolbar. Why do it right when you can click on a button?

You could improve WPs ten-fold simply by banning formatting buttons and forcing the use of catalogues. And perhaps by using catalogues properly, WPs would be more compatible. Hah! Back on topic! :guitar:

Andrew

Sure you can use styles with word processors, but the methods of doing so seam to be designed to be as obscure and inefficient as physically possible. Scribus does this better as it forces you to use styles and makes them simple and easy to use.

Markup languages are still a more efechent way of expressing document structure though, for example it is much faster to type \macro_name{sometext} than navigating some mess of menus and adding a style.

[Mateo]

OOo and MSO are obsolete and do too much things to do any of them well.
You should get a proper tool that fits the job. If you are making documents to be printed out and look good, use latex, if you are just saving text, use a rich text editor, if you are collaborating with others use google documents or use as simple format as you can.

You cant be pro if you do what everyone else is doing, everyone else is a noob :)

So if the "job" is sharing documents with clients of your company... how is Microsoft Office not the correct tool for the job? Or if you are submitting a resume?

[mamamia88]

well the word processing is good enough for me but not the powerpoint or spreadsheets. im a college student and need to view powerpoints 100% correct also, im just not too good at oo spreadsheet and just don't care to learn. i tried installing office 2007 in wine but it won't run wish i could get it to work without buying crossover.