Why steal music when you can stream it?

[Sporkman]

Why steal music when you can stream it?

Illegal file-sharing is down, perhaps because it’s easier to get music legally now.

By Michael B. Farrell | Staff writer/ August 21, 2009 edition

Teenagers have become the music industry’s great riddle.

They are the industry’s torment for downloading millions of songs – be it the Beatles or Britney – without paying a cent. But if record companies can figure out how to make money off a generation reared on free media, teens could well be the industry’s salvation.

So record labels perked up when Paul Brindley, a British online music analyst, recently released a survey showing that the number of teens in Britain who admitted to regular file sharing had dropped from 42 percent in December 2007 to 26 percent in January 2009.

That’s the strongest indication yet that the tide is turning against unauthorized file sharing, says Mr. Brindley, managing director of Music Ally, a digital music information and strategy company. And it’s not because of strong-arm tactics against illegal downloading or a sudden change of teenage hearts. Rather, the very thing that created the problem of music piracy may help save it – new technology...

http://features.csmonitor.com/innovation/2009/08/21/why-steal-music-when-you-can-stream-it/

[koshatnik]

In answer to the question, because its nice to screw over a bunch of crooks.

[tuxxy]

erm could also be the media quality as often streaming quality isn't as good.

[fela]

^^ +1! I download stuff off thepiratebay because a) I'm 13 without much money and b) I love to take the **** out of stupid record companies like sony with their rootkit cds...

EDIT: oops I wasn't fast enough! I meant +1 to the first poster after the OP

[cascade9]

"the number of teens in Britain who admitted to regular file sharing had dropped from 42 percent in December 2007 to 26 percent in January 2009."

"And while legitimate audio streaming may be gaining popularity, he wonders if Europeans are only turning away from file sharing temporarily because of a tough, new government stance against piracy."

Well, maybe they are telling lies more now than in the past? Anyway, you can capture streams, thats probably just as illegal as 'traditional' file sharing.

Nice Johnny Alpha avatar koshatnik ;)

[RiceMonster]

erm could also be the media quality as often streaming quality isn't as good.

Yup. Most mp3s you download are low enough quality as it is.

[cascade9]

Yeah, true, theres a lot of crappy 128K-192K mp3s around. Easy enough to find most things in v0 VBR, 320K CBR or lossless though

[HappyFeet]

I love to take the **** out of stupid record companies like sony with their rootkit cds...


Btw, Sony stopped doing that a long time ago due to public outcry. I use Sony cd's because they are good quality.

[RabbitWho]

What needs to happen is that bands need to start advertising products more. Most albums have 12 songs on them and there's room at the end for another song, it could be about cornflakes or something.

[BuffaloX]

Copying music isn't theft.
It's an infringement of copyright.

[Sporkman]

What needs to happen is that bands need to start advertising products more. Most albums have 12 songs on them and there's room at the end for another song, it could be about cornflakes or something.

Nice! :)

I'm definitely seeing more product placement in TV shows these days... For example, "Knight Rider" and "Royal Pains" are rife with them.

[Support the 2nd]

I think the key word is the number of people that "admit" to downloading is down. Here in the US after the judgement of a couple hundred thousand dollars against a teenager with 30 songs, I don't think its the smartest thing to cop to.


What needs to happen is that bands need to start advertising products more. Most albums have 12 songs on them and there's room at the end for another song, it could be about cornflakes or something.

Thats the problem, but I look at it the other way.... Bands put out too many songs on their CDs. Its all filler.

I would rather have a 35-45 minute epic than 70 minutes of "because we can".

I buy vinyl. Otherwise I ain't paying for it. If they care enough to release it on vinyl, and I like it, I will buy it.

[JillSwift]

Eh. I still buy CDs. I'm such a Luddite.

Streaming music blows. Plus it's a pain in the butt for folks with DL caps. Plus it isn't a lot of help when you want to go jogging. (Well, not yet.)

oh, and:

Copying music isn't theft.
It's an infringement of copyright.
^^^That.

[aeiah]

i tried spotify at the weekend, via wine.

utter rubbish. im not an audiophile and a lot of my mp3s range from 128-320kbps but spotify quality is audibly lower in quality. i couldnt find half the stuff i was looking for either, and when i did i had an advert after every song for car insurance or sky sport.

[HappinessNow]

Pandora (http://www.pandora.com/)!

[cascade9]

Thats the problem, but I look at it the other way.... Bands put out too many songs on their CDs. Its all filler.

I would rather have a 35-45 minute epic than 70 minutes of "because we can".

Agree 1000% :D

aeiah- you can probably edit out those annoying adds, etc.

BTW, I'm totally unsure about most of the streaming sites (I dont stream very much at all) but I know it is possible to d/l audio from myspace *shudders*. Funny enough, you can get teh audio at the original upload quality, I've grabbed a few nice 320K mp3s from there.


Pandora (http://www.pandora.com/)!

Thanks for reminding me that cant go there anymore. :(


Dear Pandora Visitor,
We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative.
We believe that you are in Australia

[bryncoles]

Pandora (http://www.pandora.com/)!

this is a very good illustration of the problem. I click the link, and am met with a message to the effect "sorry, not in your country sonny-jim" (not their exact words).

legal online streaming is a great idea. now, if only record companies felt the same way!

[Warpnow]

I think any widespread attempt at streaming will likely be so DRM filled we won't be able to use it.

[HappyFeet]

Pandora (http://www.pandora.com/)!

I used to be a fan, but they repeat too many songs. I use last.fm now.

[exutable]

You also have to think about functions like, the creation of playlists(that aren't determined by a website), ipod syncing, and playing music without the internet.

These are all functions that people want, the music industry has to start realizing that people are used to not paying for music but rather getting it in huge quantities.

I used to have "some" sympathy for an aspiring artist who couldn't make it because of piracy, but then they have to have more concerts, events, etc. P2P could help spread their music.

After I read http://digg.com/music/When_Pigs_Fly_A_Brief_History_of_Record_Industry_S uicide after the big tracker Oink shutdown, my understanding really widened. A lot of the money you pay is for expensive dinners, fancy limos and other crap that the music industry really doesn't need.

Dane

[gnomeuser]

I personally can't wait for something like Spotify to arrive here in Denmark. It's a good legal alternative to many of the problems that cause copyright infringing acts. It's not a perfect solution but it does allow a growing catalog of songs to be available for free to stream which I think most people would consider acceptable (especially as mp3 players are increasingly being replaced by phones with 3g access and unlimited data plans are becoming more common meaning we can even have it on the go).

I love discovering new music, I am however often in the position of either having to order CDs from the US and wait for shipping of a CD that will just go in store after it is ripped into my collection.. This is expensive and idiotic or having to download the CDs. Knowledge that even if I buy the CD I don't really support the artist who brings me joy much often leads to frustration and hopelessly. I wish more music support would work like Magnatune.

[HappinessNow]

Agree 1000% :D

aeiah- you can probably edit out those annoying adds, etc.

BTW, I'm totally unsure about most of the streaming sites (I dont stream very much at all) but I know it is possible to d/l audio from myspace *shudders*. Funny enough, you can get teh audio at the original upload quality, I've grabbed a few nice 320K mp3s from there.



Thanks for reminding me that cant go there anymore. :(Blame the record companies Not Pandora.


this is a very good illustration of the problem. I click the link, and am met with a message to the effect "sorry, not in your country sonny-jim" (not their exact words).

legal online streaming is a great idea. now, if only record companies felt the same way!Exactly.


I used to be a fan, but they repeat too many songs. I use last.fm now.Sounds like user error to me, I never have this problem, but I do use Pandora One (http://www.pandora.com/pandora_one)...instead of the free version ;)

Last.fm has always sucked overall and still does, worst audio quality online for streaming music and user controls are Not friendly at all!

[Dark Aspect]

Why steal music when you can stream it?

So you can listen to it offline and listen to it off another device that is not connected to the inter-webs.

[cascade9]

Blame the record companies Not Pandora.

Last.fm has always sucked overall and still does, worst audio quality online for streaming music and user controls are Not friendly at all!

Actually..blame the DCMA and the record companies. (and pandora for not moving to a nicer country LOL)

LastFM was....workable. It got uglier and less useable over time. But now, if you are not in the US/UK/Germany, theres a subscription fee. Its not huge, but I wont pay for lastFM quality. Besides that, I dont really trust lastFM post CBS takeover.

[mystmaiden]

I'm not a teenager by any stretch of the imagination, but I buy my music and would even if I were a teen. I download mp3s from mp3panda. Its all right there and handy, cheap and if the quality is bad I haven't noticed it, sounds good on my speakers. Most of the time I just get the songs I want and to heck with any album filler fluff.

Fiddling with streaming would be a pain.

myst

[PurposeOfReason]

Because if it isn't a 100% perfect flac rip I don't want it so I either buy the music or download it. It's about 50/50. Only thing I don't download are vinyl rips because half the fun of vinyl is playing it and the album art.

[Phreaker]

I use Grooveshark

[Tu1J4kXk8NUhMz]

One thing to point out is the fact that under many University bit rate limitation rules, services such as Pandora and Last.fm break policy. This is a policy that needs revision of course, because this results in a lot of students who listen to these stations being forced off the network due to an outdated policy.

Needless to say, in these situations, buying MP3s and CDs is a more appropriate option. A lot of the population of these radio stations are more than likely students.

[graabein]

Copy != Steal

[Hallvor]

Copy != Steal

Not according to Norwegian law, at least.

http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-19020522-010-028.html#257

[BuffaloX]

I use Grooveshark

Thanks! :popcorn:
It even works in Denmark.

[sydbat]

I'm just waiting for US law (which, BTW, does NOT cover any other country!!!) to make it illegal to even listen to music at all. Somehow they'll find a way to charge people for overhearing someone else's car stereo playing something, or charge the person playing the music in their car for "broadcasting" (AKA sharing) illegally.

Silly? Maybe, but the way the music industry continues to try and criminalize listening to music, and the uninformed/bribed lawmakers making stupid laws, it is inevitable.

And now for something completely the same - Recurring discussions!

[HappinessNow]

I use GroovesharkAwesome! just did a search for the most obscure song I could think of and it came up! Awesome music quality also.

Looks like Grooveshark will be a death blow to last.fm, Pandora still ranks high because I have too many customized radio stations to ever replace it.

Grooveshark is a nice accompaniment to Pandora!

Thanks

reference new thread:

Grooveshark is awesome! anybody else using it? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1248707)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1248707

[gn2]

http://www.beefheart.com/filtered/quote.jpg

Wise words from The Captain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart).

[-grubby]

I use Grooveshark

+1 to Grooveshark

[running_rabbit07]

What needs to happen is that bands need to start advertising products more. Most albums have 12 songs on them and there's room at the end for another song, it could be about cornflakes or something.

I have seen rap albums with 30+ songs on them. Of coarse only two songs are ever played and the rest are repetitive f words over and over again.

[JillSwift]

Illegal file-sharing is downI wonder what their metrics are for this.

Could it be that the real reason the metrics are down is because they've lost track of some of the P2P methods? Or that there are IP lists being shared to lock out some of their monitoring sites? Am I using too many question marks?

[lisati]

Btw, Sony stopped doing that a long time ago due to public outcry. I use Sony cd's because they are good quality.
Good brand. 3 video cameras, a TV, 2 DVD recorders and a sound system capable of playing mp3 disks in our house that are by Sony. And I've been known to use Sony bkank media too.




It's about 50/50. Only thing I don't download are vinyl rips because half the fun of vinyl is playing it and the album art.
+1: Nothing wrong with vinyl, but when I'm on the move listening to music I'd rather have a clean rip from CD than from vinyl. No matter how well the "clean up" process is done, it's still sometimes possible to tell that something's from vinyl. If done badly, it's annoying.


Copy != Steal
+1: There's more to "don't copy" than "don't steal". Some of the stuff I've captured on camera & subsequently put on DVD shouldn't be copied, out of respect for the privacy of those participating in the even.


I have seen rap albums with 30+ songs on them. Of coarse only two songs are ever played and the rest are repetitive f words over and over again.
Calling something "rap" music is sometimes a misnomer: putting a "C" in front of the word goes some way to correcting this problem.

[running_rabbit07]

Calling something "rap" music is sometimes a misnomer: putting a "C" in front of the word goes some way to correcting this problem.

I couldn't agree more.

[running_rabbit07]

Am I using too many question marks?

Yes, one question at a time, then back to the end of the line. JK!

[Mohamedzv2]

I love Pandora too much. It's sometimes annoying when they repeat something like 30 Seconds To Mars but I've found a lot of good bands through Pandora. Last.FM is a bit complicated for me.

[markbuntu]

Pandora, last.fm bleh. The playlists are just crap, might as well listen to the radio. I just stream from shoutcast these days. I can always find something to fit my mood.

I just cannot pay for low quality mp3, that is just a bad joke.

I have had collections of thousand+ lps and more than one collection of 500+ cds but eventually I sell them off because I do not want to drag them around with me when I move. I have about 100 cds now and will probably not buy anymore because it is just not worth 19$ to me to have it.

The big music labels are using an unreasonable business model. Sales drop so they raise prices instead of cutting costs and lowering prices. That is just crazy. If cds cost 10-12$ a lot more people would buy them and there would be a lot less file sharing, especially for new/not so popular music.

[Support the 2nd]

If cds cost 10-12$ a lot more people would buy them and there would be a lot less file sharing, especially for new/not so popular music.

That is true. FYI, if you do want to buy a CD that is coming out, new release Tuesdays at BestBuy are generally the day to do it. Most new releases are on sale for $9.99 the first day.

[Muppeteer]

Until we can stream FLAC, i'll be stealing mine :P

[tom66]

I don't think record companies realise how many kids give songs to their friends by bluetoothing files wirelessly. I've seen it happen hundreds of times between fellow pupils. Maybe less are downloading files, but many more are sharing files.

[t0p]

Streaming music blows. Plus it's a pain in the butt for folks with DL caps. Plus it isn't a lot of help when you want to go jogging. (Well, not yet.)


I've got a regular 3G cellphone (as opposed to an iPhone or something running Android or whatever) and I've got a couple of digital radio java apps - vradio and lavella. My phone is also a music player, so I can listen to streaming music when I'm out and about. As long as I'm in a 3G coverage area of course, it can't stream over gprs.

[toupeiro]

I am a big fan of streaming.

When I can't/don't want to use Pandora or Last.fm, I attach to a server of my own hosting mp3act (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mp3act/), and do streaming m3u's of my own music. I've even done this over 3g cell service and it works beautifully. So, if you have a car media player port (and an unminited data plan), between pandora and streaming from my own personal server, I'll never need to carry physical music media around again to have access to all of my material on-demand.

[philcamlin]

^^ +1! I download stuff off thepiratebay because a) I'm 13 without much money and b) I love to take the **** out of stupid record companies like sony with their rootkit cds...

EDIT: oops I wasn't fast enough! I meant +1 to the first poster after the OP

im 15 and i have better things to do then buy cd's and stream tunes :)

[TheNosh]

I like to be able to listen to my music when I'm away from my computer, and my phone is nowhere near being able to do this.

I buy a lot CD's actually, but i only have so much money and I'm not going to let that limit my music collection. Also if i really like something i sometimes go back and buy a legit copy later.

My other problem is lack of available CD's/records in stores. for example, I'm a huge fan of Bob Marley and the wailers, but all you can find by bob Marley in most record stores is 5 copies of Legend, and thats a "best of" album. No thank you. Hell, i like Peter Tosh (Also one of the Wailers) even more, and I've never seen anything by him in a store! The bottom line is that if something isn't very popular it's less likely to be in store's.

I won't buy Music online because If i don't have a physical copy of it i don't feel like i really own it anyway (that may sound dumb, but it makes sense to me).

[pwnst*r]

here we go again...

all the idiotic excuses to download music that's not yours.

[Sethun]

I don't actually steal my music, but streaming is kind of a hassle, and depending on what you're situation is like if you have an Ipod, say you can put the music there for storage and easy usage.

[PurposeOfReason]

im 15 and i have better things to do then buy cd's and stream tunes :)
Like drive
study
get a job
hang out with friends.

here we go again...

all the idiotic excuses to download music that's not yours.
I have no good excuse. I buy some, some I don't. There really is no reason for why I buy some and not others except for band loyalty on select cases.

[pwnst*r]

i can mostly understand that.

[TheNosh]

what i gave were reasons, not excuses

what i mean by that is this:

excuse = some justification that what i'm doing is right
reason = why i'm doing something regardless of whether or not it's right

personal morals on the issue have no effect on the matter anyway, it still isn't legal.

[HappinessNow]

I am a big fan of streaming.

Stream is a Dream!

[Nevon]

I didn't realize that my copying of something immaterial takes away that immaterial thing from someone who has gotten their copy another way! :O Now that I know, I'm never going to have another thought, paint another picture or sing another song - after all, those may already exist - in which case copying them would be STEALING!

[calrogman]

Last time I streamed any music I found an mp3 in /tmp, which I definitely did not move to ~/Music.

[Andreas1]

sometimes i download music, sometimes i capture streams (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1005196), and sometimes, if it turns out that after a month i still like that music, i buy it just to pay for it (avoiding anything with drm technology though), don't care much about discs or fancy booklets. and mp3s have just as much a soul as vinyl discs :-)

[Lavaeagle]

Don't turn this forum's discussions into pirating, there are places for that so go there.

[darthmob]

Am I the only one seeing the obvious?

So record labels perked up when Paul Brindley, a British online music analyst, recently released a survey showing that the number of teens in Britain who admitted to regular file sharing had dropped from 42 percent in December 2007 to 26 percent in January 2009.

There is a difference between filesharing and downloading! P2p networks were the primary source for music and films in 2007 but nowadays everyone uses direct downloads. No wonder that the numbers of people sharing files go down. He simply asked the wrong question.

Personally I mostly listen to music from smaller artists. I buy their CDs, rip them, put them on the shelf and most likely never touch them again. I do not even own a cd player and I depend on mp3s for my PC and MP3 player. :)

[bapoumba]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1248707

The above thread has a much better atmosphere. I am closing here, as cleaning would mean removing more than half of the posts and still call for the same comments.