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keiichidono
August 18th, 2009, 02:47 PM
I've heard some good ideas from people on these forums and i want everyone to give their input so that i can spread these ideas and hopefully see them implemented one day.

Examples:

I'll disagree with your solution to the hardware drivers - what's in it for the hardware manufacturers? The real solution is to get the hardware manufacturers to come together and work out standards for classes of device. For instance, all wireless cards basically do the same thing, they should all be built to communicate with the computer via a standard API rather than the current situation where different chipsets require different drivers.

What's in it for hardware manufacturers? Well, they would no longer have to write drivers for every new device. Even discounting the huge benefits that open standard drivers would have for Linux, there'd be great benefits for Windows users: Every new version of Windows would still work with standards-compliant hardware, even if the kernel changes; you wouldn't need to install a mess of drivers every time you reinstall Windows, and there'd be no such thing as driver conflicts because there would only be a handful of drivers running, all in-kernel, all maintained by the kernel's developers.

Not only is this good for Linux as we can implement the standard drivers, but if you decided to switch to OpenSolaris or FreeBSD or ReactOS you'd find that all your hardware would still be working because those operating system developers have also implemented the standards.

That's the best solution to the hardware support problem, and it doesn't require hardware manufacturers to be actively friendly towards Linux.
By: 3rdalbum on Ubuntu Forums


As I've said before, software is a language that communicates instructions to a computer, and as a language, is and should be governed by copyright, not patents. Patents were intended for physical devices, not words.
By: motie38 Source Unknown

Grenage
August 18th, 2009, 02:55 PM
On a similar thread, I wish all games makers would use cross-platform systems such as opengl, rather than Windows-specific directx.

Viva
August 18th, 2009, 02:58 PM
<sarcasm>I don't care and I'll call everybody who fights for software freedom and against software patents loons and zealots</sarcasm>

keiichidono
August 18th, 2009, 04:43 PM
On a similar thread, I wish all games makers would use cross-platform systems such as opengl, rather than Windows-specific directx.

I hear it's easier to code with directx.

Gorgoth
August 18th, 2009, 05:04 PM
I was all prepared for the sarcastic answer of "With a hammer, and some duct tape" but then the thread went in a different direction. :(

JDShu
August 18th, 2009, 05:57 PM
With regards for the first quote, the argument is that today device functions rely more and more on the software side so that how well the hardware runs is dependent on the driver. For example, a company writes an amazing driver that allows the hardware to do something unprecedented. If they open sourced this driver, they lose the competitive edge gained from their R&D which they obviously had to pay for.

EDIT: Excuse me, I just reread the quote properly, disregard what I said haha

koenn
August 18th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I was all prepared for the sarcastic answer of "With a hammer, and some duct tape" but then the thread went in a different direction. :(

You might want to bring that hammer by the time this thread reaches its full potential of an ugly cross between "Ubuntu needs feature XYZ to become mainstream", "we need a Grand Unified Linux Distro", and "Dependency Hell".

Or it'll just end up in "Recurring" as the next iteration of "more games, less brown, somebody fix wifi already, sound sucks"

Viva
August 18th, 2009, 06:15 PM
You might want to bring that hammer by the time this thread reaches its full potential of an ugly cross between "Ubuntu needs feature XYZ to become mainstream", "we need a Grand Unified Linux Distro", and "Dependency Hell".

Or it'll just end up in "Recurring" as the next iteration of "more games, less brown, somebody fix wifi already, sound sucks"

:lolflag:

And every post will end with "And that is why ubuntu is not ready for the desktop"

blueturtl
August 18th, 2009, 06:20 PM
I hear it's easier to code with directx.

DirectX has come a long way. When it was conceived however a big bunch of game devs pleaded Microsoft to put the thing out of it's misery (http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windoze/OpenGLvsDirect3D.html) and use better alternatives such as OpenGL.

Microsoft did have a good reason to push DX though, as today's market shows.

FLMKane
August 18th, 2009, 06:22 PM
DirectX has come a long way. When it was conceived however a big bunch of game devs pleaded Microsoft to put the thing out of it's misery (http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windoze/OpenGLvsDirect3D.html) and use better alternatives such as OpenGL.

Microsoft did have a good reason to push DX though, as today's market shows.

Why,why,why, do we not have an open source alternative to Direct X, which is BETTER than Direct X?

donkyhotay
August 18th, 2009, 07:09 PM
Why,why,why, do we not have an open source alternative to Direct X, which is BETTER than Direct X?

Because microsoft would just embrace, extend, extinguish it. Look at what they did with java and various other systems that were designed to improve cross-compatibility.

RiceMonster
August 18th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Because microsoft would just embrace, extend, extinguish it. Look at what they did with java and various other systems that were designed to improve cross-compatibility.

Java still exists and is very popular.

People are not avoiding "outdoing" Microsoft because they're afraid of them using "embrace, extrend, extinguish".

NightwishFan
August 18th, 2009, 07:15 PM
DirectX is the enemy. If more games used OpenGL, I bet there would be many more Linux/Mac ports today.

Gorgoth
August 18th, 2009, 08:28 PM
You might want to bring that hammer by the time this thread reaches its full potential of an ugly cross between "Ubuntu needs feature XYZ to become mainstream", "we need a Grand Unified Linux Distro", and "Dependency Hell".

Or it'll just end up in "Recurring" as the next iteration of "more games, less brown, somebody fix wifi already, sound sucks"

Alright, I'll keep the hammer ready.

On a completely different note... despite the above "problems" (and I've experienced the hardware ones personally) I'd still say Linux is just fine for the desktop. Like anything else, you'll run into problems. It's just a matter of using the right hardware.

My biggest problems I ran into were on my older system. An AMD Athlon 3200+, with an AGP ATI Graphics Card... before AMD and ATI merged, and went open-source. And I *still* was able to get a perfectly usable desktop system that convinced me to not ever use Windows as a main OS ever again.

People just need to learn that things are simply different with Linux, and that there's a little bit of that "Teach a man to fish" cliche built into it.

I mean, after all, why feed a man when you can teach him?

On a completely related note... biggest issue with Linux I've had... too many freakin options when it comes to UIs. I am such a themes-streetwalker.



DirectX is the enemy. If more games used OpenGL, I bet there would be many more Linux/Mac ports today.

Which makes the NVidia 190~ beta drivers so sexy. OpenGL support. Now all I need is a "prettier graphics, exact same gameplay" remake of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, and I'd be set for life.

markbuntu
August 18th, 2009, 10:33 PM
A lot of manufacturers who use a lot of software, like cellphone makers, have moved to open source to sell cheaper phones. Consequently there is alot of pressure on the hardware suppliers to standardize the drivers, or at least the api for the hardware that goes into these devices so the cellphone makers can add features faster and cheaper. The OpenGL stack is already into cellphones in a big way.

There is a convergence coming and it is the cellphone makers who are driving it. Soon, the only reason for having a laptop will be for a bigger screen. All your apps will be in the cloud.

lykwydchykyn
August 18th, 2009, 10:42 PM
I agree totally with the first quote, particularly when it comes to network cards. I don't see why NIC manufacturers can't come together and set out a rudimentary standard for network interfaces -- something like VESA for video, AC'97 for audio, or MC'97 for modems. Just a basic API to get basic functionality; after all, when was the last time there were any major functionality updates to network cards? They put packets on a cable, end of story. There's no reason why my card should have to be completely dead without some proprietary vendor-supplied driver.

I doubt it's possible to have 100% functionality from generic driver interfaces, but there should not be a piece of hardware out there (at least not for commodity PC's) that doesn't have a "minimal functionaliy" generic driver standard. Certainly most of all the network card, without which it's next to impossible to get anything else on the PC working.