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Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 04:39 AM
I've got 5 computers, 4 of them run Ubuntu and she just spent the entire night trying to simply modify her resume so she could apply to some jobs. She had originally created it in Microsoft Word and when she opened it in Open Office on my laptop it was all messed up. So she spent the night meticulously modifying it to look perfect again and complaining about how the, "...world works on Windows, why use stupid Linux?" and "Linux ****ed up my resume." She is really REALLY mad that she spent hours on it and it still looks all messed up when exported to PDF or opened in .doc format.

I took a look at it and she saves it in .doc, closes it and when she reopens it, there's all kinds of weird spacing in it. I thought it was odd since my resume which I created in Microsoft Word looks perfect in Open Office, no change at all. It gets better though, this is what happend....she grunted and pushed the laptop away from her, going to clean the kitchen and scream some more about Linux sucking and just accepting the world working on Windows...

her - AH! The world works on Windows, why not just accept it and use it? Who cares if it's better or worse?

me - I don't use things because everyone else does, I use what's better. It works for me.

her - No, it doesn't work. I format my resume with simple formatting and Linux ****s it up. It looks fine in Word but when I use Linux, then open it in Word, all my tabs and spaces are all off.

me - Wait, what? Tabs? Spaces?

her - Ya, that's how I do my resume, if I need to move something over, I use tabs or spaces. How else do you move it from here to here? (making pinching motion at eye level)

me - You use the ruler and margins, that's what they're there for.

her - Well, that's not how I do it, I use tabs and spaces.

me - (hysterical laughter while burying my head behind the laptop) No wonder it's ****ed up, you use tabs and spaces! If someone opens it in Word it'll be messed up too if their margins are different! (goes to Ubuntu Forums to look for geek thread about micromanaging spaces...)

:lolflag::lolflag:

razorboy5
August 12th, 2009, 04:43 AM
tell her to not use ur laptop :P

and write on her resume "not able to adapt to better operating systems"

and move out ... lol

overdrank
August 12th, 2009, 04:46 AM
Moved to The Community Cafe

pricetech
August 12th, 2009, 04:53 AM
Just one man's opinion but;
werd ****ed it up so Open Office couldn't lay it out properly.

When "everybody else" supports one format and winders supports another, things aren't going to work like you want them to every time and it would seem to be winders fault, don't you think ??

See can you get her to use Open Office under winders. Much better.

Have fun with your closed minded roommate.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 04:58 AM
That is crazy. I am speachless.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 05:06 AM
me - (hysterical laughter while burying my head behind the laptop) No wonder it's ****ed up, you use tabs and spaces! If someone opens it in Word it'll be messed up too if their margins are different! (goes to Ubuntu Forums to look for geek thread about micromanaging spaces...)

In word if you set the margins on a document those are the margins that stay with the document. It doesn't matter if your default margins are different then mine, they travel with the document. If you use tabs and spaces they stay the same regardless of what version of word opens the document.

Actually, she is right in wanting to use Word for her resume. When most of the world uses word, you need your document to format correctly. When you use open office there is a chance it won't. I use open office at home, but if I'm applying for a job my resume is written in Word.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:12 AM
In word if you set the margins on a document those are the margins that stay with the document. It doesn't matter if your default margins are different then mine, they travel with the document. If you use tabs and spaces they stay the same regardless of what version of word opens the document.

Actually, she is right in wanting to use Word for her resume. When most of the world uses word, you need your document to format correctly. When you use open office there is a chance it won't. I use open office at home, but if I'm applying for a job my resume is written in Word.

That is why I always publish to PDF. If I can't turn in my resume to the hiring company personally, then I don't need to work for them.

Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 05:12 AM
I forgot to mention she's a salesman for an IT solutions company, she sold the company I work for 2 of the Dell switches we're using in our server room. When I was at her office one day she tried to convince me that nobody uses Linux for servers, everyone uses Microsoft.

She just asked me why everyone can't just use one single operating system and not switch to something stupid.
In reply I asked her why she doesn't use DOS, why did she have to switch to Windows?
He reply - "Because DOS sucks too."

Tipped OuT
August 12th, 2009, 05:15 AM
I forgot to mention she's a salesman for an IT solutions company, she sold the company I work for 2 of the Dell switches we're using in our server room. When I was at her office one day she tried to convince me that nobody uses Linux for servers, everyone uses Microsoft.

She just asked me why everyone can't just use one single operating system and not switch to something stupid.
In reply I asked her why she doesn't use DOS, why did she have to switch to Windows?
He reply - "Because DOS sucks too."

lol...

Chemical Imbalance
August 12th, 2009, 05:17 AM
I forgot to mention she's a salesman for an IT solutions company, she sold the company I work for 2 of the Dell switches we're using in our server room. When I was at her office one day she tried to convince me that nobody uses Linux for servers, everyone uses Microsoft.

She just asked me why everyone can't just use one single operating system and not switch to something stupid.
In reply I asked her why she doesn't use DOS, why did she have to switch to Windows?
He reply - "Because DOS sucks too."

My condolences! :D

Yikes.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 05:18 AM
That is why I always publish to PDF. If I can't turn in my resume to the hiring company personally, then I don't need to work for them.

Except 90% of the time they will have seen your resume before ever seeing you.

Sometimes you give your future employer more then one copy of your resume. Sometimes, your future boss may have you email to someone else.

swoll1980
August 12th, 2009, 05:20 AM
Sounds like someone needs to use their own computer, or stop complaining. I've had people come to my house before, use my computer, and complain about my "program". It's pretty disrespectful really.

XxionxX
August 12th, 2009, 05:20 AM
Some people just can't help being stupid. It just comes out.:lolflag:

swoll1980
August 12th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Except 90% of the time they will have seen your resume before ever seeing you.

Sometimes you give your future employer more then one copy of your resume. Sometimes, your future boss may have you email to someone else.

So what's wrong with a pdf?

Mr. Picklesworth
August 12th, 2009, 05:22 AM
In word if you set the margins on a document those are the margins that stay with the document. It doesn't matter if your default margins are different then mine, they travel with the document. If you use tabs and spaces they stay the same regardless of what version of word opens the document.

Actually, she is right in wanting to use Word for her resume. When most of the world uses word, you need your document to format correctly. When you use open office there is a chance it won't. I use open office at home, but if I'm applying for a job my resume is written in Word.

Although it's worth noting that the thing could probably be saved as RTF or HTML with no loss in functionality.
I have yet to meet (as in stand in the same room as) a person who uses Microsoft Office for what it's designed to do. Rather, they all use Word as a glorified rich text editor with a spell checker, Powerpoint as a way to get better layout controls and Excel as Word with a really, really big table that they can punch numbers on to really fast. So many people are bizarrely convinced that they need it, though.

Just to confuse this person, you should probably point out to her that OpenOffice is not really a "Linux" thing, but that most of its audience uses Windows. Further, it is maintained by Sun. (I bet her company uses Java somewhere).

Oh, and she is wrong about the whole world using Windows. The starving children don't use Microsoft Office. Think of the starvin' children.

Chemical Imbalance
August 12th, 2009, 05:24 AM
So what's wrong with a pdf?

+1 I want to know too. :popcorn:

Giant Speck
August 12th, 2009, 05:26 AM
Is this thread seriously happening? #-o

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:26 AM
Some people just get mad at what they don't understand.

Before I started using Linux I probably would have said the same **** about server OSes, but I now know better now.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:32 AM
Sounds like someone needs to use their own computer, or stop complaining. I've had people come to my house before, use my computer, and complain about my "program". It's pretty disrespectful really.

Amen, that's like someone getting in your car and saying they don't like German cars, or whatever you drive. It's just wrong.

phrostbyte
August 12th, 2009, 05:38 AM
Tell her to use LaTeX next time. :) I redid my girlfriend's resume in LaTeX, and she thinks it looks extremely professional.

But yeah, it would be really nice if there was a EASY TO USE, WYSIWYM word processor out there. Like an easy to use LaTeX (LyX is close). :)

gletob
August 12th, 2009, 05:43 AM
Sounds like someone needs to use their own computer, or stop complaining. I've had people come to my house before, use my computer, and complain about my "program". It's pretty disrespectful really.

+ 1 x 1000

Mr. Picklesworth
August 12th, 2009, 05:51 AM
Tell her to use LaTeX next time. :) I redid my girlfriend's resume in LaTeX, and she thinks it looks extremely professional.

But yeah, it would be really nice if there was a EASY TO USE, WYSIWYM word processor out there. Like an easy to use LaTeX (LyX is close). :)

Lyx is great. It could do with some interface love, but the path between that and perfection is somewhat short :)

And I definitely agree there. As soon as a word processor does the wysiwyg formatting mania, the interface turns into a mess automatically. Programs like Lyx actually help with the process of writing. Thing like bibliographies, and little touches like preventing you from accidentally inserting multiple spaces after characters. Writing help is all people really want; those same people I see misusing Word and Excel really aren't fussed about formatting, either. They would be happy if the documents actually came out looking good, but they aren't going to step out of their way to make it happen.

racerraul
August 12th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Actually, I had a similar situation with a far more complex doc.

My syster was using Word to create invitations. I opened it in Abiword and it was a mess.

I opened it in OpenOffice Word Processor and it was close but as your room mate said... all missaligned.

I noticed that I needed the right fonts, so I was able to get them and when installed on my system the doc was nearly perfect.

She went on to make the nessesary changes and all was ok then.

A lot of the problem was that in OOWP the spacing was messed up as it tried to compensate for missing fonts.

Worth a try...

Bölvaður
August 12th, 2009, 05:55 AM
Whow this thread is on fire, I think we need to put the fire out.

1. I she would have sewed the document by just changing font in one area of it.
2. She should use something more professional than Word for this, as suggested Latex
3. PDF > Doc as there is less odds of any corruption of how it looks and also there are less odds of the receiver not being able to open it.

Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 06:10 AM
Whow this thread is on fire, I think we need to put the fire out.

1. I she would have sewed the document by just changing font in one area of it.
2. She should use something more professional than Word for this, as suggested Latex
3. PDF > Doc as there is less odds of any corruption of how it looks and also there are less odds of the receiver not being able to open it.

When she exported it to PDF, it ended up being a bunch of black boxes and percent symbols. It looked like when you open a .exe file in Word.

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 06:14 AM
I've got 5 computers, 4 of them run Ubuntu and she just spent the entire night trying to simply modify her resume so she could apply to some jobs. She had originally created it in Microsoft Word and when she opened it in Open Office on my laptop it was all messed up. So she spent the night meticulously modifying it to look perfect again and complaining about how the, "...world works on Windows, why use stupid Linux?" and "Linux ****ed up my resume." She is really REALLY mad that she spent hours on it and it still looks all messed up when exported to PDF or opened in .doc format.

I took a look at it and she saves it in .doc, closes it and when she reopens it, there's all kinds of weird spacing in it. I thought it was odd since my resume which I created in Microsoft Word looks perfect in Open Office, no change at all. It gets better though, this is what happend....she grunted and pushed the laptop away from her, going to clean the kitchen and scream some more about Linux sucking and just accepting the world working on Windows...

her - AH! The world works on Windows, why not just accept it and use it? Who cares if it's better or worse?

me - I don't use things because everyone else does, I use what's better. It works for me.

her - No, it doesn't work. I format my resume with simple formatting and Linux ****s it up. It looks fine in Word but when I use Linux, then open it in Word, all my tabs and spaces are all off.

me - Wait, what? Tabs? Spaces?

her - Ya, that's how I do my resume, if I need to move something over, I use tabs or spaces. How else do you move it from here to here? (making pinching motion at eye level)

me - You use the ruler and margins, that's what they're there for.

her - Well, that's not how I do it, I use tabs and spaces.

me - (hysterical laughter while burying my head behind the laptop) No wonder it's ****ed up, you use tabs and spaces! If someone opens it in Word it'll be messed up too if their margins are different! (goes to Ubuntu Forums to look for geek thread about micromanaging spaces...)

:lolflag::lolflag:They shoot horses don't they? :lolflag:

Seriously, just introduce her to Google Documents...problem solved.

racerraul
August 12th, 2009, 06:15 AM
When she exported it to PDF, it ended up being a bunch of black boxes and percent symbols. It looked like when you open a .exe file in Word.

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Bigtime_Scrub
August 12th, 2009, 06:24 AM
You know I had a problem like this even using word because one version of word isn't even compatible with another version of word! I had Word 2007 and I was sending stuff to this guy who said he had word 2003 and that he couldn't open the files. I changed it to be saved as a Word 2003 document but still, they aren't compatible. Now I just use pdf for everything like that. I say, just use pdf as it is more universal and you have no problems opening pdf in Linux.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 06:28 AM
You know I had a problem like this even using word because one version of word isn't even compatible with another version of word! I had Word 2007 and I was sending stuff to this guy who said he had word 2003 and that he couldn't open the files. I changed it to be saved as a Word 2003 document but still, they aren't compatible. Now I just use pdf for everything like that. I say, just use pdf as it is more universal and you have no problems opening pdf in Linux.

Word 2007 switched to the docx format. Word 2003 can read docx if you download a patch from Microsoft. If you saved the document in Word 2007 as a word 2003 file(.doc) it will open just fine.

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 06:29 AM
You know I had a problem like this even using word because one version of word isn't even compatible with another version of word! I had Word 2007 and I was sending stuff to this guy who said he had word 2003 and that he couldn't open the files. I changed it to be saved as a Word 2003 document but still, they aren't compatible. Now I just use pdf for everything like that. I say, just use pdf as it is more universal and you have no problems opening pdf in Linux.

Tell her to sue Microsoft for word ruining her life.

Just use Google Documents, which converts all it's documents to PDF when you click the link in the email.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 06:33 AM
Tell her to sue Microsoft for word ruining her life.

Just use Google Documents, which converts all it's documents to PDF when you click the link in the email.

When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document?

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 06:34 AM
When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document?Google Documents also has the ability to convert to word documents, problem solved!

zmjjmz
August 12th, 2009, 06:40 AM
When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document?

I suddenly lose interest in working for them.
How lazy can you be? PDFs open in standard image viewers.

racerraul
August 12th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Weird
Odd
Retarded
Documents

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 06:45 AM
When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document?

Google Documents also has the ability to convert to word documents, problem solved!

Here are the 6 options Google Documents gives you when emailing a resume or any other document:

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=124523&d=1250055738

With Google Documents covering all the bases why would you use anything else? also you have the luxury of having your resume or other documents always available where ever you have internet and you can save a copy to your flash, external, hard drive also.

MikeTheC
August 12th, 2009, 07:08 AM
Switch room mates.

One can only wonder if this would constitute grounds for justifiable homicide.

I mean, for the love of God, it would be a mercy killing.

</sarcasm>

geekygirl
August 12th, 2009, 07:08 AM
Is this another case of 'but sir! a penguin ate my homework?!!!"

....

Bigtime_Scrub
August 12th, 2009, 07:30 AM
Word 2007 switched to the docx format. Word 2003 can read docx if you download a patch from Microsoft. If you saved the document in Word 2007 as a word 2003 file(.doc) it will open just fine.

Yeah I know that now, like I said I fixed it by saving it as a .doc 2003 Word file, but still, the point is Word does not "just" work. It is an extra step, which to me was frustrating because the guy had no idea what the hell he was doing and was getting angry that I would not send him a "Word" document.

August 12th, 2009, 07:39 AM
To be fair, Google Docs always seems to screw up the .odt files I upload...whether this is my fault or not remains a mystery, but the fact of the matter is that I get weird grey marks between lines if they're spaced. It's easily remedied by just getting rid of them manually, but it does get kind of tedious...

OO.o and friends aren't perfect, but they're something at least. Here's to hoping for the day that Abiword and KWrite can make use of OpenDocument extensions that OO.O uses for a more even experience across the board.

Another example of which is font mixups when I open up an .odt file from OpenOffice into KWrite. The font rendering, and font itself, is all screwed up.

lisati
August 12th, 2009, 07:43 AM
Sounds like someone needs to use their own computer, or stop complaining. I've had people come to my house before, use my computer, and complain about my "program". It's pretty disrespectful really.
+1 Someone recently complained to me about the way I was formatting emails: when they clicked on "reply" strange formatting appeared. When I pointed out that they were the only one complaining they got downright nasty. (I use Evolution, they use MS Outlook 11)

Some people just can't help being stupid. It just comes out.:lolflag:
Guilty as charged from time to time!!!!

So what's wrong with a pdf?
As far as I know, nothing!

Some people just get mad at what they don't understand.

Before I started using Linux I probably would have said the same **** about server OSes, but I now know better now.
I had a dislike for Windows before I had ever used it: why use a GUI when for most of the stuff I was doing at the time could be done with the command line?

Is this another case of 'but sir! a penguin ate my homework?!!!"

....

:lolflag:

Firestem4
August 12th, 2009, 07:43 AM
When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document?

Print it out for him.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pte2XO66Nwg/SLwt6gS6C8I/AAAAAAAAB4o/6V77_Uaqcjk/s400/blonde%2Bjoke.jpg

(Not intending to insult any blondes. Its kind of an old joke however lol)

lisati
August 12th, 2009, 07:45 AM
(Not intending to insult any blondes. Its kind of an old joke however lol)
I think I'll stand next to another blonde and create a wind tunnel.......

Not offended!

Firestem4
August 12th, 2009, 07:46 AM
I think I'll stand next to another blonde and create a wind tunnel.......

Not offended!

Oh god i haven't heard that one in a while. =D

stwschool
August 12th, 2009, 08:00 AM
I can kinda understand why she'd be annoyed. At the end of the day a computer is a tool to do a job. That said, as others have alluded to, you're letting her use your computer. You don't have to, she could get her own or go elsewhere and presumably pay for the privelidge of printing her document (at a cybercafe or something).

Can't see how it would have gone wrong on pdf by the way, I've always found the PDF export fairly bullet-proof but then that's just me.

djdarrin91
August 12th, 2009, 08:09 AM
You should get her a new laptop with Ubuntu on it:) man she would really hate you then! :lolflag:

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 08:33 AM
You should get her a new laptop with Ubuntu on it:) man she would really hate you then! :lolflag:better yet buy her an Apple laptop!

Johnsie
August 12th, 2009, 09:28 AM
She's right. The world really does use Microsoft, and that's why you should never write your CV in Open Office. Recruiters will open the file, see that it's all ****ed up and think you don't even know how to use Word.

At the end of the day you have to decided what's more important, defending your cheesy Linux values or having food on the table. I choose the food every time :-)

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 09:30 AM
She's right. The world really does use Microsoft, and that's why you should never write your CV in Open Office. Recruiters will open the file, see that it's all ****ed up and think you don't even know how to use Word.

At the end of the day you have to decided what's more important, defending your cheesy Linux values or having food on the table. I choose the food every time :-)Edit: bad attempt at funny joke. :)

Johnsie
August 12th, 2009, 09:33 AM
Just for the record I would like to point out that I am not obese lol. I can't speak for everyone on this forum though :-D

starcannon
August 12th, 2009, 09:35 AM
I forgot to mention she's a salesman for an IT solutions company, she sold the company I work for 2 of the Dell switches we're using in our server room. When I was at her office one day she tried to convince me that nobody uses Linux for servers, everyone uses Microsoft.

She just asked me why everyone can't just use one single operating system and not switch to something stupid.
In reply I asked her why she doesn't use DOS, why did she have to switch to Windows?
He reply - "Because DOS sucks too."

Oi vey, so an IT saleperson that does not comprehend the difference between an OS and a Word Processor application. You can't win this one, tell her to buy her own Windows machine and Office Suite. Thats what works for her, no point in torturing her with your gear.

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 09:36 AM
Just for the record I would like to point out that I am not obese lol. I can't speak for everyone on this forum though :-DJust joking, my apologies for a bad joke! I edited it! :P

ssaint04
August 12th, 2009, 09:37 AM
I've had OO.o screw up .doc files saved in Word before.

I've also has MS Word screw up .doc files saves in OO.o before.

However, think I've got ya beat on roommate horror stories. All three of my machines dual boot, Windoze and Jaunty. Therefore, obviously, i use GRUB.

My roommate needed to use my desktop. I told her to turn it on and have at it, as I hadn't set up password protections yet.

She got lost at the GRUB screen, and flipped out about "how she can't use my computer, because she can't use Linux."

I just shrugged and said "Well, tap the down arrow until Windows is highlighted, and press enter, or, go get your own computer out."

(She had broken her laptop two weeks previous, cracked the screen)

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 09:39 AM
...no point in torturing her with your gear.
+1

Don't let her touch your computers!

I've had OO.o screw up .doc files saved in Word before.

I've also has MS Word screw up .doc files saves in OO.o before.

However, think I've got ya beat on roommate horror stories. All three of my machines dual boot, Windoze and Jaunty. Therefore, obviously, i use GRUB.

My roommate needed to use my desktop. I told her to turn it on and have at it, as I hadn't set up password protections yet.

She got lost at the GRUB screen, and flipped out about "how she can't use my computer, because she can't use Linux."

I just shrugged and said "Well, tap the down arrow until Windows is highlighted, and press enter, or, go get your own computer out."

(She had broken her laptop two weeks previous, cracked the screen)Probably why she is unemployed!

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Is this another case of 'but sir! a penguin ate my homework?!!!"

....

:lolflag:

sydbat
August 12th, 2009, 04:34 PM
I've had OO.o screw up .doc files saved in Word before.

I've also has MS Word screw up .doc files saves in OO.o before.I've had MS Word screw up .doc files saved in MS Word many times. Haven't had that happen (yet) with OOo...

Grenage
August 12th, 2009, 04:48 PM
I find it odd that anyone would ignore a job opportunity due to the personnel department wanting a document in MS word format. I also find it a bit odd that you'd create a thread berating someone who wanted to sort out a document in a fashion that normally works for them, and everyone else who works with MS word.

It doesn't say much for the linux community when the mouthiest of the crowd are condescending and abusive to end users over a technicality.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 04:49 PM
She's right. The world really does use Microsoft, and that's why you should never write your CV in Open Office. Recruiters will open the file, see that it's all ****ed up and think you don't even know how to use Word.

At the end of the day you have to decided what's more important, defending your cheesy Linux values or having food on the table. I choose the food every time :-)

I use to ways to give a resume to a future employer, printed on resume paper like they are supposed to be or PDF. How do you hand in a doc file at a job fair? Do you actually take a bunch of floppies in with you? If you are properly networking and the person wants to consider you for hire, she/he will not care about whether it is a doc or a PDF.

I have seen a previous supervisor receive a Word file resume and he was nice enough to go in and make edits, which made the person look horrible then he turned it in to HR. Not that every possible employer would do such a thing, I hope.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I find it odd that anyone would ignore a job opportunity due to the personnel department wanting a document in MS word format. I also find it a bit odd that you'd create a thread berating someone who wanted to sort out a document in a fashion that normally works for them, and everyone else who works with MS word.

It doesn't say much for the linux community when the mouthiest of the crowd are condescending and abusive to end users over a technicality.

Opinions are good in The Community Cafe. I think the OP brought up a good conversation that could iron out misunderstandings for some.

It is not the matter that she wanted to you MS Word, it was about her blaming Open Office and Linux for effing up her document when it was her not knowing how to use Word itself properly that caused the problem.

As far as the employer wanting a document in word format, I am not shy to admit that I can't afford $200 to write one document. (Last time I had seen the MS Office Suite at Office Depot it was$619.99. That is more than a car payment.

Grenage
August 12th, 2009, 05:05 PM
it was her not knowing how to use Word itself properly that caused the problem.

Yes and no. If her methods have worked fine in MS word across multiple computers before, it's hardly improper use. I know of many, many people who format MS word documents in the same way.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Opinions are good in The Community Cafe. I think the OP brought up a good conversation that could iron out misunderstandings for some.

It is not the matter that she wanted to you MS Word, it was about her blaming Open Office and Linux for effing up her document when it was her not knowing how to use Word itself properly that caused the problem.

As far as the employer wanting a document in word format, I am not shy to admit that I can't afford $200 to write one document. (Last time I had seen the MS Office Suite at Office Depot it was$619.99. That is more than a car payment.

Obviously you don't know how to use Word either, or you would realize the OP has no clue what he is talking about.

Yes, OpenOffice did screw up her document when it opened. If it had opened in Word it would have been fine. Was it linux? No, but it definitely was a problem caused by OpenOffice.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Yes and no. If her methods have worked fine in MS word across multiple computers before, it's hardly improper use. I know of many, many people who format MS word documents in the same way.

Either way, that isn't the professional way to do it. How dumb would it look if the hiring party clicked the button that shows the keystrokes and sees all of the tabs and spaces instead of a properly formatted document.

Swagman
August 12th, 2009, 05:09 PM
In word if you set the margins on a document those are the margins that stay with the document. It doesn't matter if your default margins are different then mine, they travel with the document. If you use tabs and spaces they stay the same regardless of what version of word opens the document.

Actually, she is right in wanting to use Word for her resume. When most of the world uses word, you need your document to format correctly. When you use open office there is a chance it won't. I use open office at home, but if I'm applying for a job my resume is written in Word.

If I'm applying for a job I'm not bone idle. I either turn up in person or I print it out and (snail) mail it.

In my experience, having a real McCoy pukka letter in your hand, preferably written in your own Handwriting automatically gives you a serious advantage over other candidates.

You have shown you are willing to put the effort in to "prove yourself"

but then... I think I'm getting old.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Obviously you don't know how to use Word either, or you would realize the OP has no clue what he is talking about.

Yes, OpenOffice did screw up her document when it opened. If it had opened in Word it would have been fine. Was it linux? No, but it definitely was a problem caused by OpenOffice.

I know word well enough to do things right without using tabs and spaces. I do not pretend I am a professional office assistant and I never plan to be one who makes pamphlet and such like Word was designed for. I took IS101 and got a 100% in the class so I have no problems using it correctly.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:13 PM
If I'm applying for a job I'm not bone idle. I either turn up in person or I print it out and (snail) mail it.

In my experience, having a real McCoy pukka letter in your hand, preferably written in your own Handwriting automatically gives you a serious advantage over other candidates.

You have shown you are willing to put the effort in to "prove yourself"

but then... I think I'm getting old.

I could not agree more. I want to see the crowd I might have to work with.

Grenage
August 12th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Either way, that isn't the professional way to do it. How dumb would it look if the hiring party clicked the button that shows the keystrokes and sees all of the tabs and spaces instead of a properly formatted document.

Depends what job you're going for. In the unlikely even you're being hired to write cross-platform documents, it might be a problem.

koenn
August 12th, 2009, 05:17 PM
If I'm applying for a job I'm not bone idle. I either turn up in person or I print it out and (snail) mail it.

In my experience, having a real McCoy pukka letter in your hand, preferably written in your own Handwriting automatically gives you a serious advantage over other candidates.

You have shown you are willing to put the effort in to "prove yourself"

but then... I think I'm getting old.
yeah, I think you're getting old. Handwriting ?!
I remember that 20 years ago, some employers would ask you to apply by means of a handwritten letter + a resume or 'CV' (which would mostly be typed or printed)
I don't think handwritten resumes still works, although this might vary with the traditions of the country you're in.

Grenage
August 12th, 2009, 05:20 PM
yeah, I think you're getting old. Handwriting ?!

Lol, I'd be screwed if I had to present a hand-written letter. I don't think I've written much down in at least 13 years.

Icehuck
August 12th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Either way, that isn't the professional way to do it. How dumb would it look if the hiring party clicked the button that shows the keystrokes and sees all of the tabs and spaces instead of a properly formatted document.

Who checks for these things? Seriously? Unless the job is for a person who does document creation, no one cares about this stuff.

tvtech
August 12th, 2009, 05:27 PM
yeah, I think you're getting old. Handwriting ?!
I remember that 20 years ago, some employers would ask you to apply by means of a handwritten letter + a resume or 'CV' (which would mostly be typed or printed)
I don't think handwritten resumes still works, although this might vary with the traditions of the country you're in.

dig. I like that, it's funny. Seriously this is the 21st century unless your living in the third world you use a computer and print your resume, showing up in person helps! Really it does.

The story is funnier. I've used open office since it came out, all my friends and family except my dad uses it because he's got a soft spot for the only commercially available office suite for linux that I know of. Corel wordperfect. they stopped support at suite 8, very sad.

koenn
August 12th, 2009, 05:35 PM
Who checks for these things? Seriously? Unless the job is for a person who does document creation, no one cares about this stuff.
Some people actually do check these things - including the metadata that Word adds, and previous versions / alterations / corrections if the writer of the document had those turned on and forgot to clean up. Been a while since I used Word intensively so I forgot the details, but you can probably still find stories about this kind of thing and the (sometimes funny, sometimes disastrous) consequences on the web.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:37 PM
Who checks for these things? Seriously? Unless the job is for a person who does document creation, no one cares about this stuff.

If you were going to college to be paid a little more than an office assistant working a personnel job, you might find your work a little boring and click the button to see how good the person really is.

At my previous job my boss had me typing up letterheads that had to be printed by the office assistants and they were hell of saying it is the wrong format. They had to save an electronic file of every letterhead that was printed and they made sure that it was perfect every time.

Anyway, are we going to keep beating this horse till it's a bloody pile of meat or what?

aysiu
August 12th, 2009, 05:44 PM
With Google Documents covering all the bases why would you use anything else? I don't know. These Google Docs Terms of Service (http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS?hl=en) sound scary:
11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

11.2 You agree that this licence includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services. [Emphasis added]

Am I reading that incorrectly?

When your future employer says, no pdf files, give me a word document? I've never had a potential employer say that. Every job I've ever applied to has been fine with PDFs... or has said "no attachments of any kind" and insisted the resume be pasted into the body of an email.

I find it odd that anyone would ignore a job opportunity due to the personnel department wanting a document in MS word format. It's not the department wanting a document in .doc format. It's a department insisting that the document be in only .doc format and not in .rtf or .pdf. PDFs are universal and can be opened in any operating system and look exactly the same, regardless of what application you open them with.

Of course, this is all hypothetical. As I said before, I've never had a potential employer insist the resume must be in .doc format. Has anyone here had a potential employer insist on that?

Swagman
August 12th, 2009, 05:55 PM
Of course, this is all hypothetical. As I said before, I've never had a potential employer insist the resume must be in .doc format. Has anyone here had a potential employer insist on that?

Thomas Cook, Peterborough.

I built a system for my cousin and dual booted it with Feisty and XP.

He was well happy with it....

BUT

His daughter (My niece ?) did her resume in OO and sent it off to above company where they rejected it. They did have the decency to say it was in the wrong format. She emailed me and I explained she needs to save out in .doc format, not default ODF.

It still came back.

She sent it to me and of course it opened perfectly. She hadn't done anything wrong.

I saved it out in 2003 .doc

rejected.

I torrentted Word 2007 and installed into Vbox.. loaded into that.. fixed a couple of weird spacing issues and saved out in that.

REJECTED

Grrr

Printed it out and delivered by hand. (Company is up top of rord !!)

zakany
August 12th, 2009, 05:58 PM
As I said before, I've never had a potential employer insist the resume must be in .doc format. Has anyone here had a potential employer insist on that?

Yes, if the scanning software they're using is made for Word files.

Your resume is likely run through a computer algorithm looking for key words before it bothers a human.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 05:58 PM
It's cool that you posted the EULA from google. I was just checking out that program and was wandering if they saved a copy for themselves. Definitely not typing a resume on their site.

As long as I am registered at my college I can use one of their systems to do whatever typing I need to do without worry. Though I will still publish to PDF just because I like how PDFs look.

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Yes, if the scanning software they're using is made for Word files.

Your resume is likely run through a computer algorithm looking for key words before it bothers a human.

Unless applying for a job at Microsoft, most small companies don't utilize those systems. I try to stay away from those large companies, at least until I get my BS degree. The one online source I use for job searching has you copy and paste into their setup and there is no way to make it look good then anyway. No matter what you do, it looks like a jumble of words.

Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Obviously you don't know how to use Word either, or you would realize the OP has no clue what he is talking about.

Yes, OpenOffice did screw up her document when it opened. If it had opened in Word it would have been fine. Was it linux? No, but it definitely was a problem caused by OpenOffice.
You make a good point, except for the part of me not knowing what I'm talking about.

Yes, it would appear that Open Office messed up the document but let me explain it a bit more. If everyone is using a standard and they put a lot of time and effort into making sure this standard is followed so that this doesn't happen, everything is fine. This is what is in place now with Open Office. But Microsoft comes along and says, "Oh, you want to do it that way? No problem, we'll break the standard and cater to your needs specifically." This is the problem and this is what causes it to get all messed up when opened in the accepted standard, Microsoft has been doing it for years. They do it with Explorer..."Oh, you don't feel like following W3C? No problem, we'll accommodate you!" I have websites open fine in every browser except Explorer, it frustrates me to hell. So if Microsoft, as the odd ball out, simply followed the standard everyone else does, everything would be fine. That's why you're wrong.

Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 06:09 PM
I built a system for my cousin and dual booted it with Feisty and XP.

He was well happy with it....

BUT

His daughter (My niece ?)
second cousin

Mr. Picklesworth
August 12th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I find it odd that anyone would ignore a job opportunity due to the personnel department wanting a document in MS word format.

I wouldn't take that employer seriously either, and I consider myself fairly sensible. See, MS Office .doc is not a standard (and Office 2007 renders the format obsolete even in Windows land). The only application that is meant to write files in their format is Microsoft Office, which costs $150 for the home version. (Although if you're using it for business, it costs more like$300). This is a resume; all they need is text content.

I should not be required to spend \$300 just so I can write text for a particular employer. If incompetence prevents them from viewing a .txt file, that is a serious problem. It tells me that the corporation either has a crazed infatuation with expensive Microsoft stuff, a stiff beauracracy run by a chunk of rock, and / or a complete ignorance of what makes financial / ethical sense.

In fact, if I ran such a company, I would strictly require plain text, rtf or LaTex files. This way I wouldn't get unreadable documents with over-imaginative formatting and it would weed out the monkeys who think the world revolves around MS Word.

cariboo
August 12th, 2009, 06:38 PM
I don't know if it is still done, but the last two multinational companies I worked for wanted a hand written resume, in order to analyse your hand writing to see if you fit the psychological profile they were looking for.

Chronon
August 12th, 2009, 07:38 PM
second cousin

This is totally off-topic now, but this is the Community Cafe, right? :)

\begin{genealogical digression}
The daughter of your first cousin (hypothetically, as I know we aren't talking about your family) is your first cousin once removed (i.e. one generation removed). Her great-grandfather is your grandfather.

Your second cousin is actually the cousin of your cousin, with whom you don't necessarily share any blood relations. I.e. you and your cousin share a grandparent. Your second cousin shares your cousin's other grandparent.
\end{genealogical digression}

t0p
August 12th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Seriously, just introduce her to Google Documents...problem solved.

What an awful suggestion! Google's web apps are the work of the devil.

koenn
August 12th, 2009, 08:02 PM

Am I reading that incorrectly?

For Google DOcs , they're slightly better :

Section 11.1 of the Terms of Service governing Google Docs is replaced in its entirety by:

"You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Service. By submitting, posting or displaying the Content you give Google a worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through the Service for the sole purpose of enabling Google to provide you with the Service in accordance with its Privacy Policy."

sounds like "you have to grant them those rights or else they would technically be unable to provide this service" .

I still wouldn't use this for anything serious.

Chronon
August 12th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Well, they have to duplicate the file in order to store it in various locations in their server farms.

I totally agree. I would use this for things of trivial importance. Not anything whose content I actually cared to protect.

t0p
August 12th, 2009, 08:46 PM
I find it odd that anyone would ignore a job opportunity due to the personnel department wanting a document in MS word format. I also find it a bit odd that you'd create a thread berating someone who wanted to sort out a document in a fashion that normally works for them, and everyone else who works with MS word.

It doesn't say much for the linux community when the mouthiest of the crowd are condescending and abusive to end users over a technicality.

The OP's roommate wanted to edit her resume in order to apply for a job, but she doesn't own a computer. So the OP very kindly allowed her roommate to use hers. Is the roommate grateful? Apparently not - instead of saying thanks, she complains bitterly that the software isn't what she's used to, and declares that the OP's choice of operating system is stupid and wrong.

The roommate should be thankful that the OP has chosen just to poke fun at her. I would have been annoyed at such ingratitude. If she doesn't like the computer, she doesn't need to use it ever again, does she?

I find it odd that Grenage believes the OP's sense of humour is somehow demonstrative of the Linux community's alleged condescending and abusive nature. I would suggest that Grenage has an agenda of some sort... but I doubt someone of such limited intelligence is capable of such a thing. :p

Maheriano
August 12th, 2009, 09:56 PM
The OP's roommate wanted to edit her resume in order to apply for a job, but she doesn't own a computer. So the OP very kindly allowed her roommate to use hers. Is the roommate grateful? Apparently not - instead of saying thanks, she complains bitterly that the software isn't what she's used to, and declares that the OP's choice of operating system is stupid and wrong.

The roommate should be thankful that the OP has chosen just to poke fun at her. I would have been annoyed at such ingratitude. If she doesn't like the computer, she doesn't need to use it ever again, does she?

I find it odd that Grenage believes the OP's sense of humour is somehow demonstrative of the Linux community's alleged condescending and abusive nature. I would suggest that Grenage has an agenda of some sort... but I doubt someone of such limited intelligence is capable of such a thing. :p

I'm a he, my roommate is a she. And in case you don't want to go back 8 pages, I'm the original poster! :guitar:

But the reason I'm simply poking fun is because she's one of my best friends so you let pretty much anything slide in that case. If she was a passive friend or just a simple acquaintance then I would have told her to walk her *** to the library.

HappinessNow
August 12th, 2009, 09:58 PM
What an awful suggestion! Google's web apps are the work of the devil.

Judging from your avatar, that may be like the pot calling the kettle black! :lolflag:

Am I reading that incorrectly?

Yes, that is only if you use Google to publish your documents (meaning you publish them on the internet and share with a link, it is not the same if you do NOT publish them and just share via email), I think the same would happen if you used any service to publish your documents, in fact doesn't ubuntuforums have a similar policy?

Again, Yes you may be interpreting the policy wrong.

I have never used Google to publish my documents and probably never will, I am not sure who would use that option?

Irihapeti
August 12th, 2009, 10:08 PM

I used to work as a word processor operator (on Windows only) and one of my major irritations was people who use spaces and multiple tabs instead of setting up margins and tabs properly. It makes editing a major pain. If you are submitting the doc for professional editing (I do a bit of that) expect to pay more.

gnuvistawouldbecool
August 12th, 2009, 10:20 PM
I don't have any room mate problems for linux, when I was still at Univeristy at least.

But I do observe a lot of daftness now I'm applying for jobs. Seriously, Excel, Word, Powerpoint doesn't make you any good at a computer. Fortunately the company in question allows an "other software you are apedt at" box just after that. I then typed in Linux with great enthusiasm....

Oh, and the Army's website is apparently designed for IE. Which as me and a friend observed, seems a bit demeaning and certain words could perhaps be used to describe candidates who only use IE.
A local newspapers website uses embedded windows media player for their videos, and was a complete fail in firefox. Seriously, why not use youtube, everyone knows it.

fballem
August 12th, 2009, 10:24 PM
This is totally off-topic now, but this is the Community Cafe, right? :)

\begin{genealogical digression}
The daughter of your first cousin (hypothetically, as I know we aren't talking about your family) is your first cousin once removed (i.e. one generation removed). Her great-grandfather is your grandfather.

Your second cousin is actually the cousin of your cousin, with whom you don't necessarily share any blood relations. I.e. you and your cousin share a grandparent. Your second cousin shares your cousin's other grandparent.
\end{genealogical digression}

Staying a little off topic - this is the cafe - I agree that the daughter of your first cousin is your first cousin once removed - and you are her first cousin once removed.

I always thought that my children and the children of my first cousin were second cousins to each other - there is a blood relationship (they share at least one set of great-grandparents). It is not, to the best of my knowledge the cousin of my cousin.

By the way, the children of my children's second cousins would be second cousins once removed.

The farther up the family tree you have to go to find the common ancestors, the higher the number. For example:

shared grandparents = first cousins
shared great-grandparents = second cousins
shared great-great-grandparents = third cousins
etc.

The 'removed' kicks in when the cousins share a common ancestor, but the relationship to that ancestor is not the same. For example:

- shared ancestor is grandparent to one, great-grandparent to another = first cousins, once removed.
- shared ancestor is grandparent to one, great-great-grandparent to another = first cousins, twice removed.
etc.

And now, back to the main topic ...

sydbat
August 12th, 2009, 10:30 PM
As I said before, I've never had a potential employer insist the resume must be in .doc format. Has anyone here had a potential employer insist on that?Yes. Unfortunately, there are several employers who insist on .doc for resumes. And the odd thing is, they are mostly IT departments/companies (in my job application experience).

Of course they all want Microsoft certificates for their Microsoft only workplaces too, so I imagine they would have trouble with other/new ideas...

sydbat
August 12th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Staying a little off topic - this is the cafe - I agree that the daughter of your first cousin is your first cousin once removed - and you are her first cousin once removed.

I always thought that my children and the children of my first cousin were second cousins to each other - there is a blood relationship (they share at least one set of great-grandparents). It is not, to the best of my knowledge the cousin of my cousin.

By the way, the children of my children's second cousins would be second cousins once removed.

The farther up the family tree you have to go to find the common ancestors, the higher the number. For example:

shared grandparents = first cousins
shared great-grandparents = second cousins
shared great-great-grandparents = third cousins
etc.

The 'removed' kicks in when the cousins share a common ancestor, but the relationship to that ancestor is not the same. For example:

- shared ancestor is grandparent to one, great-grandparent to another = first cousins, once removed.
- shared ancestor is grandparent to one, great-great-grandparent to another = first cousins, twice removed.
etc.

And now, back to the main topic ...AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (insert 'running screaming into the night' smiley)

fballem
August 12th, 2009, 10:36 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (insert 'running screaming into the night' smiley)

Sydbat - come back! No need to go screaming into the night!:lolflag:

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 10:37 PM
Oh, and the Army's website is apparently designed for IE. Which as me and a friend observed, seems a bit demeaning and certain words could perhaps be used to describe candidates who only use IE.
A local newspapers website uses embedded windows media player for their videos, and was a complete fail in firefox. Seriously, why not use youtube, everyone knows it.

When I was in the Army, they were all about MS. Everything was done in Work or on Powerpoint. I'd love to know how much of a hit ates would take if DOD stopped using MS and changed to Linux or even built thier own just like they built the ARPANET (http://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/%7Eacc/docs/arpa--1.html).

MikeTheC
August 12th, 2009, 10:47 PM
Yes. Unfortunately, there are several employers who insist on .doc for resumes. And the odd thing is, they are mostly IT departments/companies (in my job application experience).

Of course they all want Microsoft certificates for their Microsoft only workplaces too, so I imagine they would have trouble with other/new ideas...

See, sydbat, here's the thing though. At this point in time with the economy being what it is, if you want the job, you'll do what the potential employer asks, or you're not going to get the job. If you can't comply with their requests in trying to get a job, then why should they expect you'll follow instructions as an employee?

I think the kids on this forum need to grow up and learn they need to behave like adults if they expect to get any respect from potential employers.

pizza-is-good
August 12th, 2009, 10:54 PM
Anyone who uses tabs and spaces for such thing is not worthy of using a computer.
Like the people that hit a billion enters on a document to start a new page instead of hiting Ctrl+Enter, which is not only quicker but much 'cleaner' for the document, only to then change some info in the fisrt page to find that all their other pages are messed up.

Much less worthy of using Linux.

And someone who says .doc is the standard format should be banned from using open source software for 10 generations.

Edit: Please note that this post is overly exaggerated and it was only just in jest.

OgreProgrammer
August 12th, 2009, 11:05 PM
I admit I am a little baffled that an IT sales person doesnt own their own computer!

running_rabbit07
August 12th, 2009, 11:08 PM
Yes. Unfortunately, there are several employers who insist on .doc for resumes. And the odd thing is, they are mostly IT departments/companies (in my job application experience).

Of course they all want Microsoft certificates for their Microsoft only workplaces too, so I imagine they would have trouble with other/new ideas...

I think if I was MS certified and planning on utilizing said certificate, I would definitely have MS Office on my system. Especially if I was planning on working for an MS only company.

TheNosh
August 12th, 2009, 11:16 PM
Much less worthy of using Linux.

i did not realize one had to be "worthy" in order to use any operating system, especially if said opperating system is truly free.

sefs
August 12th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Although it's worth noting that the thing could probably be saved as RTF or HTML with no loss in functionality.
I have yet to meet (as in stand in the same room as) a person who uses Microsoft Office for what it's designed to do. Rather, they all use Word as a glorified rich text editor with a spell checker, Powerpoint as a way to get better layout controls and Excel as Word with a really, really big table that they can punch numbers on to really fast. So many people are bizarrely convinced that they need it, though.

Just to confuse this person, you should probably point out to her that OpenOffice is not really a "Linux" thing, but that most of its audience uses Windows. Further, it is maintained by Sun. (I bet her company uses Java somewhere).

Oh, and she is wrong about the whole world using Windows. The starving children don't use Microsoft Office. Think of the starvin' children.

Are you saying I have been using MS Word the wrong way for years? Please elaborate on what you mean when you say

I have yet to meet (as in stand in the same room as) a person who uses Microsoft Office for what it's designed to do.

I immediately went to read the latex page and downloaded lyx to see what the big fuss is about.

I do like the concept of latex when I read it...it inspires me to begin writing again.

pizza-is-good
August 12th, 2009, 11:31 PM
i did not realize one had to be "worthy" in order to use any operating system, especially if said opperating system is truly free.

True, but the fact that the roommate's pride is going to keep him/her from using Linux ever, since doing so would prove that he/she wasn't truly that disgusted by it.

Anyway, if they don't know how to use MS Office as a Windows user, honestly, they won't be able to use Linux.

Chame_Wizard
August 12th, 2009, 11:39 PM
Some people can be really crazy.:lolflag:

sydbat
August 12th, 2009, 11:39 PM
I think if I was MS certified and planning on utilizing said certificate, I would definitely have MS Office on my system. Especially if I was planning on working for an MS only company.Well...that was in the before time. Now I am looking into companies that are using or moving to Linux based networks/desktops. There are quite a few these days.

See, sydbat, here's the thing though. At this point in time with the economy being what it is, if you want the job, you'll do what the potential employer asks, or you're not going to get the job. If you can't comply with their requests in trying to get a job, then why should they expect you'll follow instructions as an employee?

I think the kids on this forum need to grow up and learn they need to behave like adults if they expect to get any respect from potential employers.As I mentioned a few lines above, I have been looking for employment with companies that use or are moving to Linux.

However, I do agree that potential employers (in any economy) look at whether their applicants will follow the rules laid out when applying.

The funniest thing I did come across recently while perusing a job board was a company (cannot remember which one) that was looking for someone with a Unix or Linux background for their servers and desktops, and had to have A+ Certification...and they wanted resumes to be sent in .doc format only. I think it was the HR department not understanding things...

ViperChief
August 13th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Anyone who uses tabs and spaces for such thing is not worthy of using a computer.
Like the people that hit a billion enters on a document to start a new page instead of hiting Ctrl+Enter, which is not only quicker but much 'cleaner' for the document, only to then change some info in the fisrt page to find that all their other pages are messed up.

Much less worthy of using Linux.

And someone who says .doc is the standard format should be banned from using open source software for 10 generations.

I really hope this post was made in jest. You're saying that because someone doesn't know shortcuts or how to use every little thing in a program, they're not allowed to use it?

If this is in seriousness, then I have this to say:
Do you know every little trick there is to every program you use? If not, then are you worthy to use a computer? I'm not going to lie. I didn't know about the Ctrl-Enter. But, I also don't use word processing often. I do, however, have over 20 years of experience working on computers, from hardware to programming in Assembly, BASIC, C, Java, C++. I've been using Linux for over 10 years, and have even more experience with DOS, Windows and a little BSD experience.

But, all that doesn't matter. Because I didn't know about CTRL-Enter, and I'm still very rusty with rulers and margins, so, I guess I don't know anything about computers. I probably should let my CS professors know.

If you're post was written in seriousness, then you, sir, fail, for insulting thousands of users, including engineers and programmers.

I really hope your post was in jest.

pizza-is-good
August 13th, 2009, 12:06 AM
I really hope this post was made in jest. You're saying that because someone doesn't know shortcuts or how to use every little thing in a program, they're not allowed to use it?

If this is in seriousness, then I have this to say:
Do you know every little trick there is to every program you use? If not, then are you worthy to use a computer? I'm not going to lie. I didn't know about the Ctrl-Enter. But, I also don't use word processing often. I do, however, have over 20 years of experience working on computers, from hardware to programming in Assembly, BASIC, C, Java, C++. I've been using Linux for over 10 years, and have even more experience with DOS, Windows and a little BSD experience.

But, all that doesn't matter. Because I didn't know about CTRL-Enter, and I'm still very rusty with rulers and margins, so, I guess I don't know anything about computers. I probably should let my CS professors know.

If you're post was written in seriousness, then you, sir, fail, for insulting thousands of users, including engineers and programmers.

I really hope your post was in jest.

My post was in jest, and my apologies to all that migh have been offended. I will edit my post right now.

ViperChief
August 13th, 2009, 12:11 AM
My post was in jest, and my apologies to all that migh have been offended. I will edit my post right now.

That's what I was hoping the deal was. The sad thing is I have heard people who sound very similar to what you wrote, but were dead on serious (which is why I wasn't sure). I put them in the same group as people who think because they have a rough idea of how to use VBA, they're 1337 hax0rs.

Chronon
August 13th, 2009, 12:24 AM
Staying a little off topic - this is the cafe - I agree that the daughter of your first cousin is your first cousin once removed - and you are her first cousin once removed.

I always thought that my children and the children of my first cousin were second cousins to each other - there is a blood relationship (they share at least one set of great-grandparents). It is not, to the best of my knowledge the cousin of my cousin.

. . .0snip . . .

And now, back to the main topic ...

Yes, we are in complete agreement about the meaning of the "nth-removed" clause. In retrospect and upon reading your post, I also believe that you are correct about nth-cousins. I think I had cousins of cousins introduced to me as second cousins at family reunions but I don't think that's strictly correct. I suppose that because they are only related by marriage they are more like cousins-in-law, right?

(I would call the children of my parent's cousins my second cousins but for some reason this totally escaped me earlier.)

Thanks for the reminder about that.
Good water cooler tangent, by the way. :D

running_rabbit07
August 13th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Hey ViperChief, you from Vegas? I know someone here that is a long time programmer and can see him typing the same things you are saying.

ViperChief
August 13th, 2009, 12:38 AM
Hey ViperChief, you from Vegas? I know someone here that is a long time programmer and can see him typing the same things you are saying.

Nope. I'm sure not.

I did live there for a year, but that was a couple years ago.

running_rabbit07
August 13th, 2009, 12:42 AM
Nope. I'm sure not.

I did live there for a year, but that was a couple years ago.

oh, ok, cool

Blacklightbulb
August 13th, 2009, 12:47 AM
LOL that sucks. Some roommates are great but some are like having a bossy wife while at college!. Do that. Don't do that. Do that other thing.....bla....bla...bla

mrgnash
August 13th, 2009, 12:54 AM
Tell her to use LaTeX next time. :) I redid my girlfriend's resume in LaTeX, and she thinks it looks extremely professional.

But yeah, it would be really nice if there was a EASY TO USE, WYSIWYM word processor out there. Like an easy to use LaTeX (LyX is close). :)

For lack of a better term, "word." :D LaTeX is extremely portable (just a plain text file), and you therefore don't have to worry about some silly program messing up the formatting when you open it, or about ridiculous things like tabs, spaces, margins, and all the rest of it. I used to get extremely frustrated with ALL word processors, including Open Office and MSWord, because their layout methodology is so backwards, even compared to, say, HTML.

red_Marvin
August 13th, 2009, 01:34 AM
For lack of a better term, "word." :D LaTeX is extremely portable (just a plain text file), and you therefore don't have to worry about some silly program messing up the formatting when you open it, or about ridiculous things like tabs, spaces, margins, and all the rest of it. I used to get extremely frustrated with ALL word processors, including Open Office and MSWord, because their layout methodology is so backwards, even compared to, say, HTML.
That depends on how the editor in question handles newlines...
Windows: \r\n
*Nix: \n
(IIRC)

Chronon
August 13th, 2009, 07:21 AM
That depends on how the editor in question handles newlines...
Windows: \r\n
*Nix: \n
(IIRC)

The document should compile just fine no matter which end-of-line character is used. I transfer documents between Windows and Linux and don't see a problem due to this.

HappinessNow
August 13th, 2009, 08:14 AM
LaTeX is extremely portable I'm highly allergic to LaTeX!

mrgnash
August 13th, 2009, 10:41 AM
The document should compile just fine no matter which end-of-line character is used. I transfer documents between Windows and Linux and don't see a problem due to this.

Neither did I, but then again, I did use Vim in both cases.

August 13th, 2009, 10:53 AM
Just use wordpad in Windows instead of notepad. It supports \n for a new line.

Post Monkeh
August 13th, 2009, 11:18 AM
Of course, this is all hypothetical. As I said before, I've never had a potential employer insist the resume must be in .doc format. Has anyone here had a potential employer insist on that?

i've never seen someone wanting a doc file, but the girlfriend had to send a cv as an RTF file once, which i suppose is fair enough.

if a firm demanded something in word document format, i'd think to myself that they mustn't be a very good company if they couldn't open a pdf or rtf. granted, ooo can save as a word doc, but i still think it'd be a bit cheeky of a company to demand your cv was in a format that technically you can only create in a program costing quite a bit of money.

sydbat
August 13th, 2009, 02:21 PM
The funniest thing I did come across recently while perusing a job board was a company (cannot remember which one) that was looking for someone with a Unix or Linux background for their servers and desktops, and had to have A+ Certification...and they wanted resumes to be sent in .doc format only. I think it was the HR department not understanding things...To add to my own observation here...many (most) 'employment agencies' require .doc format when you apply using their service. Most likely because their IT departments are not in-house but contracted out to the lowest bidder...which, in my experience, usually means people who have little or no idea what they are doing...but are able to fake it enough to keep contracts. When the customer does not know any better...

The job I mentioned was through one of these agencies.

Also, as many companies use these employment agencies, it is kind of hard to use the "employers are looking for x when you apply" argument concerning applications. It can, however, hold true for applying directly to the company.

sloggerkhan
August 14th, 2009, 09:01 AM
See the negative at the bottom of the image. Thought this would pertain to your situation.

running_rabbit07
August 14th, 2009, 04:05 PM
The -7 points for taking a certification course is funning being that my degree requires it. CCNA, A+, and Network+. So far though, I have a B or higher in every class I have taken.

Chame_Wizard
August 14th, 2009, 05:25 PM
See the negative at the bottom of the image. Thought this would pertain to your situation.

Whahaha LOL

Maheriano
August 14th, 2009, 05:31 PM
See the negative at the bottom of the image. Thought this would pertain to your situation.

Thanks, I just emailed it to her.

infestor
August 14th, 2009, 05:42 PM
me - You use the ruler and margins, that's what they're there for.

use LaTeX...period

Viva
August 14th, 2009, 11:17 PM
She's ignorant and misinformed. There are worse crimes in the world. Try educating her about linux and open source without sounding too patronizing.

MikeTheC
August 14th, 2009, 11:23 PM
She's ignorant and misinformed. There are worse crimes in the world. Try educating her about linux and open source without sounding too patronizing.

However, if she's that ignorant, patronizing (especially from her point-of-view) may be unavoidable.

Maheriano
August 14th, 2009, 11:44 PM
She's ignorant and misinformed. There are worse crimes in the world. Try educating her about linux and open source without sounding too patronizing.
It's impossible. Yesterday she tried to convince me that 1-800-GOOG-411 isn't free.
The ship is sinking and I have a patch.......but I just can't reach the hole.

MikeTheC
August 14th, 2009, 11:56 PM
@OP:

You know, if your roommate is *that* mentally limited, I think you need to get a new one. I, personally, would be unable to handle the related onslaught from that kind of person.

August 15th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Before educating her about Linux and open source, I'd start with teaching her how to use Microsoft Word properly. Start with the idea of having separate paragraph styles for headings and content. It's so annoying how people individually select each heading and manually change the formatting for each one.

fredbird67
October 2nd, 2009, 01:50 AM
I've discovered that Abiword tends to do better at properly rendering Microsoft Word documents than OpenOffice does. BTW, if you're running Xubuntu, Abiword comes with Xubuntu, and of course, it can very easily be installed from Synaptic or via the command line in any other Ubuntu flavor.

hoppipolla
October 2nd, 2009, 01:53 AM
@OP:

You know, if your roommate is *that* mentally limited, I think you need to get a new one. I, personally, would be unable to handle the related onslaught from that kind of person.

hehe I know we don't usually get on, but that made me laugh :)

hoppipolla
October 2nd, 2009, 01:54 AM
I've discovered that Abiword tends to do better at properly rendering Microsoft Word documents than OpenOffice does. BTW, if you're running Xubuntu, Abiword comes with Xubuntu, and of course, it can very easily be installed from Synaptic or via the command line in any other Ubuntu flavor.

hmm, that's interesting, I might have to remember that if OOo Writer has trouble reading a Word document again!

jrusso2
October 2nd, 2009, 01:57 AM
I don't know what your upset about, Open Office can easily mess up Microsoft Word documents I did it myself once. Of course it depends on how they were formatted.

Roasted
October 2nd, 2009, 02:32 AM
That's kind of funny you had these issues with somebody on your Ubuntu computer. I'm a huge tech fan, I work with technology all day at work and I come home to my own little projects on my Ubuntu machine. My girlfriend is the exact opposite. She is kind of funny and doesn't understand why viruses exist, etc.

However - One thing I have to hand to her... when she uses my Ubuntu desktop, she doesn't ask questions. She just knows how to use it. Granted, I have familiar programs installed, OpenOffice resembles Word pretty closely and Firefox is there too, so there's familiar territory.

But I truly expected to hear some "what the hell is this?" lines but, she has said zero about the differences she noticed from Ubuntu and Windows XP (that her own pc at home runs).

MasterNetra
October 2nd, 2009, 03:31 AM
Did you remind her that openoffice isn't Linux it just runs on it?

Roasted
October 2nd, 2009, 01:22 PM
Did you remind her that openoffice isn't Linux it just runs on it?

This is a good point. Install OpenOffice on her windows computer and smile as World War 3 begins. :lolflag:

pookiebear
October 2nd, 2009, 01:32 PM
abiword ftw.

dmizer
October 2nd, 2009, 01:37 PM
Also, you might want to make sure that all the fonts are installed. Most of the compatibility problems between MS Word and Open Office occur because MS uses closed source fonts. Take a look at what fonts she was using for her resume, make sure they're installed on the Ubuntu machine. Then the document should render exactly as she wrote it in Word.

I just got done with a 4 month long job hunt myself. All my applications (cover letter and resume) were submitted in PDF format. PDF is even more universal than MS Word. As a bonus ... Open Office supports exporting documents in PDF format ;)

pwnst*r
October 2nd, 2009, 02:01 PM
I don't know what your upset about, Open Office can easily mess up Microsoft Word documents I did it myself once. Of course it depends on how they were formatted.

^this

she's got every right to be upset. what's the problem.

MasterNetra
October 2nd, 2009, 02:22 PM
Also prehaps you can try installing the version of Word she is using under wine? Show her its not linux (make sure you have the fonts she's using too as suggested by someone else in another post.)

Ozor Mox
October 2nd, 2009, 02:23 PM
^this

she's got every right to be upset. what's the problem.

Erm, if somebody wants to use my computer then they'll use whatever I give them and be happy about it. Most people I've let use Ubuntu get on with it just fine, but anyone who complains I politely tell to use their own computer. They use what works for them, I use what works for me.

Tristam Green
October 2nd, 2009, 02:26 PM
Erm, if somebody wants to use my computer then they'll use whatever I give them and be happy about it. Most people I've let use Ubuntu get on with it just fine, but anyone who complains I politely tell to use their own computer. They use what works for them, I use what works for me.

Then you need to let them know that what you have isn't necessarily what *they're used to*.

Also, no, they don't have to be happy about it.

Ozor Mox
October 2nd, 2009, 02:48 PM
Then you need to let them know that what you have isn't necessarily what *they're used to*.

Well that should be fairly obvious when it turns on saying 'Ubuntu' and looks completely different!

Also, no, they don't have to be happy about it.

Well you're right, they don't have to be happy about it, but they can use something else to get their work done if they're not.

pwnst*r
October 2nd, 2009, 02:59 PM
Well that should be fairly obvious when it turns on saying 'Ubuntu' and looks completely different!

Well you're right, they don't have to be happy about it, but they can use something else to get their work done if they're not.

how do you know it wasn't already on?

..and that's probably what she did once she realized that it wasn't windows and/or that OO wasn't going to cut it for her.

MasterNetra
October 2nd, 2009, 03:01 PM
how do you know it wasn't already on?

..and that's probably what she did once she realized that it wasn't windows and/or that OO wasn't going to cut it for her.

Sounds like she is one of those Drama Queens I hear so much about come to think of it.

pwnst*r
October 2nd, 2009, 03:02 PM
or the OP over exaggerates. but you don't hear too much about that, do you

Tristam Green
October 2nd, 2009, 03:03 PM
Well that should be fairly obvious when it turns on saying 'Ubuntu' and looks completely different!

If they don't know, they don't know.

Well you're right, they don't have to be happy about it, but they can use something else to get their work done if they're not.

True. I was just saying that the person doesn't have to be happy about using something different.

SirBismuth
October 2nd, 2009, 03:26 PM
Erm, if somebody wants to use my computer then they'll use whatever I give them and be happy about it. Most people I've let use Ubuntu get on with it just fine, but anyone who complains I politely tell to use their own computer. They use what works for them, I use what works for me.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. I am happy to show someone Ubuntu and explain the benefits of Open Source to them, but if they still want to use Windows and Office, I won't stop them.

I don't hate Windows, I just prefer Linux. Fanboys on either side are a pain, and I know, as I was one once! :P

B

Ozor Mox
October 2nd, 2009, 03:37 PM
This I agree with wholeheartedly. I am happy to show someone Ubuntu and explain the benefits of Open Source to them, but if they still want to use Windows and Office, I won't stop them.

I don't hate Windows, I just prefer Linux. Fanboys on either side are a pain, and I know, as I was one once! :P

B

I feel the same. I think the fanboyish phase is something a lot of people new to Ubuntu and Linux go through. Sure it's annoying, but it's only because most of us have a strong interest in computers and are excited about something new we have just discovered. For most people, myself included, it tends to settle down and you become content with using what you like and letting others get on with using what they like. Like you, I'll show someone Ubuntu and offer to set it up for them, but I'll just as happily admit Windows is right for certain things, and help them set that up if they so choose.

If they use my computer though, they play by my rules ;)

random turnip
October 2nd, 2009, 03:39 PM
LMAO.
I wouldn't have been able to contain myself.

wildman4god
October 2nd, 2009, 03:46 PM
weird, I have never had a problem doing resumes on openoffice, maybe something is bold when it's not supposed to be but other than that no problems. So what I do is write my document in open office and when I am finished save and close it, then re-open it, I will then see the errors and I fix them then when I open in MS Word there are no problems.

lykwydchykyn
October 2nd, 2009, 03:47 PM
I just have to say, having worked with numerous office/word processing suites over the years, I have yet to find one that consistently opens documents made in another perfectly. Some do better than others, to be sure; but opening a document in a WP other than the one you created it in is just asking for formatting problems.

Heck, even MSO has trouble opening Microsoft Works files (when it even offers the option). I had to convert a bunch of them at work when we decided to "standardize" on MSO 2003 and get rid of all the Works/Corel/whatever people were using.

If a file format isn't simple with a well-defined standard attached to it, that's pretty much what you can expect. Look how hard it is to get HTML to render the same in two different browsers!

random turnip
October 2nd, 2009, 03:49 PM
weird, I have never had a problem doing resumes on openoffice, maybe something is bold when it's not supposed to be but other than that no problems. So what I do is write my document in open office and when I am finished save and close it, then re-open it, I will then see the errors and I fix them then when I open in MS Word there are no problems.

You didn't read it all the way through did you.
She used spaces to line things up rather than the rulers.

halovivek
October 2nd, 2009, 04:03 PM
My Brother does same thing every time :)

Maheriano
October 2nd, 2009, 04:20 PM
or the OP over exaggerates. but you don't hear too much about that, do you
No over exaggeration, everything I mentioned happened. And she knew it was Linux before she sat down, she's known me for years and is well aware of my pure hatred for the evil that is Microsoft! :lolflag: She just likes to complain about anything that isn't done the way of the majority. She doesn't care if it's right, just as long as it's the same as everyone else.

This week she was complaining that my computer doesn't have Java and therefore she can't use the batch uploader on Facebook for pictures. I know I have 64 bit Java installed, I did the manual install myself following the instructions from SUN's website. I confirmed that it indeed does not work which is weird but I didn't have time to look at it much further. I just listened to her complain about it for 10 minutes.

ericmc783
October 2nd, 2009, 04:25 PM
that is why i always publish to pdf.

+1