What are your thoughts on Live Office.

[irv]

I know google has this online and there are other. There was a little piece on this in Full Circle Magazine this month, and I have a link to there website detailing Live Office. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this product because you can install it on your own server.

I'm not real keen on doing this on a server I can't control. I want my data on my box not someone else's server.

http://www.live-office.net/ (http://www.live-office.net/)

http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue27_en.pdf (http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue27_en.pdf)
Goto page 6.

[Dragonbite]

I saw that in the Full Circle magazine too and thought it looked interesting. Has a way to go, but I hope it gains traction!

Ultimately I see private clouds being used in enterprises. I just hope it is open source right from the beginning!

[racerraul]

Looks cool.
I could see that working well with Puppy Linux off a CD.

[Skripka]

I saw that in the Full Circle magazine too and thought it looked interesting. Has a way to go, but I hope it gains traction!

Ultimately I see private clouds being used in enterprises. I just hope it is open source right from the beginning!

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.

PS-No way is it going to be open-source...I'll be surprised if Microsoft doesn't design it to need ActiveX.

[FuturePilot]

cloud crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my pos isp crapped out.

+1

[irv]

I see a lot of people fighting cloud computing, but for some reason I see it coming. I agree that you still have to keep things on your own PC so if you loose the Internet you can still function. But I am still 50/50 on whether or not I really want to go to it even if I run it on my own server.

Take this discussion we are having right now we are doing it over the Internet. I use Internet email, and I am on facebook with all my kids. We are already doing a lot on the Internet, so why not our office work?
Oh ya, all my grandkids and some kids play a lot of games over the Internet.

I still don't know?

[Dragonbite]

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.

Cloud computing is going to grow first in the enterprise level, where there is no ISP involved, just everybody accessing a server in the computer room so all of their files are stored there (so when their physical computer craps out they don't whine about the files they saved on the C: !)

Connecting via ISP (vpn?) would only be necessary for the fewer road-warriors, but all of the desk-shackled grunts would never need an ISP.

At the same time, they don't have to up the ante and have everybody run thin clients and/or mix in virtualization.

[Skripka]

Cloud computing is going to grow first in the enterprise level, where there is no ISP involved, just everybody accessing a server in the computer room so all of their files are stored there (so when their physical computer craps out they don't whine about the files they saved on the C: !)

Connecting via ISP (vpn?) would only be necessary for the fewer road-warriors, but all of the desk-shackled grunts would never need an ISP.

At the same time, they don't have to up the ante and have everybody run thin clients and/or mix in virtualization.

That's just great...Because business LANs can be even more annoying and unreliable in terms of speed versus time of day than my ISP.

[geoken]

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.



I got a better idea, how about you simply ignore cloud services. It's the best of both worlds. As far as you'd be concerned it would have gone away while simultaneously still existing for the millions of people who don't agree with you.

[Skripka]

I got a better idea, how about you simply ignore cloud services. It's the best of both worlds. As far as you'd be concerned it would have gone away while simultaneously still existing for the millions of people who don't agree with you.

I won't need to ignore a thing. When bandwidth caps become the norm, and net-neutrality evaporates under pressure from corporate lobbies, The Cloud Pipe Dream will vanish faster than a scolded cat.

[geoken]

I won't need to ignore a thing. When bandwidth caps become the norm, and net-neutrality evaporates under pressure from corporate lobbies, The Cloud Pipe Dream will vanish faster than a scolded cat.

Yeah, because the 40kb spreadsheet I'm working on is going to be the primary target of traffic shapers and will push me over the edge with my bandwidth limit.

[sydbat]

Cloud computing is going to grow first in the enterprise level, where there is no ISP involved, just everybody accessing a server in the computer room so all of their files are stored there (so when their physical computer craps out they don't whine about the files they saved on the C: !)

Connecting via ISP (vpn?) would only be necessary for the fewer road-warriors, but all of the desk-shackled grunts would never need an ISP.This has existed for 2+ decades already in most larger companies and government agencies...although I do not think that most people realize their "H:" drive (or whatever letter is assigned) is not physically on their box, but in the central server.

Perhaps those who do know this are the ones who think the cloud is an alright idea.

However, I also do not think they realize that at work, everything technically belongs to the company/government agency, and this is what this discussion is really about here - not actually owning your stuff when it is stored online.

My $.0000001/2

[Dragonbite]

This has existed for 2+ decades already in most larger companies and government agencies...although I do not think that most people realize their "H:" drive (or whatever letter is assigned) is not physically on their box, but in the central server.

Yeah, but this would also include the applications to open those files.

[FuturePilot]

We are already doing a lot on the Internet, so why not our office work?


Until someone can come up with a way to make an existing program, say Open Office for example, connect to a server where you can save your documents, I refuse to use any web app word processor. I see a number of problems with things like web based word processors.


Web browsers are not designed to run other applications. It's meant to view web pages, hence the name "web browser"
Because of the reason above, web apps tend to be terribly slow
They don't even come close in terms of features to locally installed counterpart applications
As mentioned before, what happens when your connection goes down?


Even if someone can fix those problems, there's still the issue of privacy, so I would still be reluctant to use anything web based.

[racerraul]

Like it or not... it's coming.

Those that need it will like it...
Those that don't need it wont use it...

and those that are paranoid will go insane.

[hessiess]

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.

I don't want to do anything with documents in a web browser, Browsers are not designed for high quality typesetting and are well below the quality of word processors, and cannot begin to touch the likes of TeX. All the editors available for browsers are pure garbage compared to Vim or Emacs.

Personally I wrote everything using plain text files, they are just so much less problematic.

[starcannon]

I can see some great uses for cloud computing, particularly for collaboration; indeed these services already exist, and have existed for quite some time.

I'm not sure I see a huge need for it in the home environment, and I'm also not sure I see the cloud being the final word in... Word. For instance, meet Pat; Pat is our gender neutral business person; Pat has work to do, but will be on an airplane 5 times this week, buzzing from meeting to meeting; while Pat is on the airplane the only clouds Pat will interface with, are the ones outside the window, but still the presentations, the word documents, the spreadsheets, they must be attended to, and the only time Pat can really work on these things is while on the Airplane for an hour or three.

Cloud computing will be useful to Pat when Pat lands and can sync with corporate headquarters over the VPN, but otherwise not.

[liveoffice]

I saw that in the Full Circle magazine too and thought it looked interesting. Has a way to go, but I hope it gains traction!

Ultimately I see private clouds being used in enterprises. I just hope it is open source right from the beginning!

--
Yes it is open source, we working on the Beta version. The release version will be open source as well!

[Chronon]

I don't want to do anything with documents in a web browser, Browsers are not designed for high quality typesetting and are well below the quality of word processors, and cannot begin to touch the likes of TeX. All the editors available for browsers are pure garbage compared to Vim or Emacs.

Personally I wrote everything using plain text files, they are just so much less problematic.

:confused:

Your example of TeX is actually very well geared toward the cloud already. I can log into my school's server, create a document in emacs (or the editor of your choosing) and build it with latex. I get the same great output as I would running it on my own desktop. Whether or not I'm using ssh to access the server or some sort of web interface, I see nothing in this example that precludes top-notch typesetting in a networked environment.

Also, you should be able to access emacs or vim using something like ajaxterm.

[thisllub]

Until someone can come up with a way to make an existing program, say Open Office for example, connect to a server where you can save your documents, I refuse to use any web app word processor. I see a number of problems with things like web based word processors.


Web browsers are not designed to run other applications. It's meant to view web pages, hence the name "web browser"
Because of the reason above, web apps tend to be terribly slow
They don't even come close in terms of features to locally installed counterpart applications
As mentioned before, what happens when your connection goes down?


Even if someone can fix those problems, there's still the issue of privacy, so I would still be reluctant to use anything web based.

A cloud is just a platform.
The software is PHP / Apache which means that you can run it from your browser and serve it from your own computer.
Browsers will eventually be forced to be as good as Latex and HTML 5 is a big step along the way.

I use my home server when I am away from home and if I have a data plan with a decent browser on my phone I can work from anywhere - on my own cloud.

I like the idea.

[Mateo]

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.

PS-No way is it going to be open-source...I'll be surprised if Microsoft doesn't design it to need ActiveX.

I wish UF had digg buttons so I could digg you down for not even going to the link.

[Frak]

Until someone can come up with a way to make an existing program, say Open Office for example, connect to a server where you can save your documents, I refuse to use any web app word processor. I see a number of problems with things like web based word processors.


Web browsers are not designed to run other applications. It's meant to view web pages, hence the name "web browser"
Because of the reason above, web apps tend to be terribly slow
They don't even come close in terms of features to locally installed counterpart applications
As mentioned before, what happens when your connection goes down?


Even if someone can fix those problems, there's still the issue of privacy, so I would still be reluctant to use anything web based.
This is why projects such as Flex/Flash Builder exist. Adobe is trying to rid of the technologies that limit people to static pages that update dynamically and asynchronously with real-time applications that updates dynamically and asynchronously.

If anybody thinks I'm an Adobe fanboy, I might as well be guilty as charged. I never go a day without using Flex/Gumbo/Photoshop/Illustrator/ColdFusion/BlazeDS/Catalyst.

EDIT:
And +1 to Mateo above me.

[Mateo]

Web browsers are not designed to run other applications. It's meant to view web pages, hence the name "web browser"


Lots of things have lived past their original designs. The internet, for example, was not designed to host the world wide web. Yet here we are, having a conversation using it.


Because of the reason above, web apps tend to be terribly slow

Web application speed has little to do with the web browser; it's due to current bandwidth limitations. Key word: current.



They don't even come close in terms of features to locally installed counterpart applications


Really? Because I think Gmail is the best email application ever created. Even if you feel differently, what is this desktop email application that Gmail "doesn't even close" in terms of features?



As mentioned before, what happens when your connection goes down?

That's a difficult one to answer because it makes so many presumptions. Why are you presuming that the cloud office app you are using is being accessed over the internet? It can be located in your closet, if you want.

And my next statement (actually, a question), is "which connection are you referring to?" Because personally, I have 2 internet connections on me at all times. The other being my phone. And this is becoming the norm. So if you're having problems with 2 connections going bad at the same time... then cloud computing isn't your #1 problem.

Lastly, cloud services are doing a spectacular job of fixing this problem, so let's start to acknowledge them. Google Docs and Gmail both have Offline Mode. Your emails, your docs, are stored locally "just in case". And you can continue to edit them; they'll be synced when you come back online. I wouldn't be surprised if Zoho and the other major web app providers are developing similar services.

EDIT: I just looked it up and Zoho already has offline access for Mail and Documents.

[irv]

I would like to make a comment on keeping things on line. I have tons of photos and there is no way I want to keep them all I my laptop, but I do want access to them any time I am at home or on the road. So I use Picasa Web Albums to store them. I also have a large TB drive to keep them safely backed up on. You see, this is a great way to go because I not only have them handy any time I want them, but I also have two complete backups of them for safety reasons. When I am at home, I plug in the TB Drive and sync all my photos with Picasa.

[Mateo]

I would like to make a comment on keeping things on line. I have tons of photos and there is no way I want to keep them all I my laptop, but I do want access to them any time I am at home or on the road. So I use Picasa Web Albums to store them. I also have a large TB drive to keep them safely backed up on. You see, this is a great way to go because I not only have them handy any time I want them, but I also have two complete backups of them for safety reasons. When I am at home, I plug in the TB Drive and sync all my photos with Picasa.

Great strategy, I like it.

[jrusso2]

Cloud Crap needs to go away. I don't want to be stuck unable to type my documents because my POS ISP crapped out.

PS-No way is it going to be open-source...I'll be surprised if Microsoft doesn't design it to need ActiveX.

Tried the demo seems to work with Linux

[irv]

Tried the demo seems to work with Linux

When you say you tried the demo, do you mean you installed it on your own server? I tried to install it on mine, but I have not gotten it to work yet.

[hessiess]

:confused:

Your example of TeX is actually very well geared toward the cloud already. I can log into my school's server, create a document in emacs (or the editor of your choosing) and build it with latex. I get the same great output as I would running it on my own desktop. Whether or not I'm using ssh to access the server or some sort of web interface, I see nothing in this example that precludes top-notch typesetting in a networked environment.

Also, you should be able to access emacs or vim using something like ajaxterm.

I know that TeX can be used through SSH etc, What I was referring to is the highly variable quality of typesetting that web browsers produce, HTML pages will never print the same from different browsers, not good for document prosessing. Sure you could use the TeX `edit and compile' model with a online document editing system, but your avarage computer user only knows the `wysiwyg' model. And running Vi or Emacs in a browser through a AJAX shell woulden't be as efficient as running the editor locally due to network overhead, though it would be the only viable option currently as the javascript-based editors are so bad.

[jrusso2]

When you say you tried the demo, do you mean you installed it on your own server? I tried to install it on mine, but I have not gotten it to work yet.

No there is an online demo on the page that link that was posted in the start.

[shawnwilliams]

It's very interesting thing. We should think about it very seriously but also backup some important data on pc so if sometimes we internet connection then we can use that data from our pc also.

[Dragonbite]

It's very interesting thing. We should think about it very seriously but also backup some important data on pc so if sometimes we internet connection then we can use that data from our pc also.





I think that's where desktops are going to move towards, to some degree. The ability to have your files and applications "cached" on the local machine to work when there isn't internet connection or when internet connection is sporatic, but have it tightly integrated with the Cloud/internet that files and kept in synch automatically and applications are updated when connected and for the most part you don't notice when you are connected or not.

That will provide life for the desktop beyond just opening a browser, while harnessing the power of a centralized file and application source.

One advantage to the Cloud applications is for companies with remote or mobile workers so when their laptops are stolen, the files are not on it to be accessed. Reduce the headlines of "stolen laptops with thousands of credit cards" or social security numbers from being an issue.

Where I am, the laptop's entire hard disk is encrypted for this reason, even though I really don't have any secret stuff (except a couple passwords our Intranet uses) on this machine and most information is accessible by the FOI act.