GNOME To Drop Icons in Buttons, Menus

[mihai.ile]

From what I read at http://www.osnews.com/story/21935/GNOME_To_Drop_Icons_in_Buttons_Menus , seems that GNOME will stop using icons in menus and buttons, at least by default because it increases components sizes and have some kind of negative aspects they say.

I really like the icons, not to mention that there was a study here http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2009/06/28/old-news-about-icons/ that confirms that icons + text is faster/easier to use that text or icon only.

As Ubuntu is based on GNOME, what do you think of this and how will affect you?

(Please vote to gather relevant data)

[zekopeko]

First of all, you missed the part where icons won't be dropped from the menus for ALL things. Applications, Files, Bookmarks and Devices will have icons. This is just enabled to make app developers fix their apps. Also the Gnome HIG is going to have to be updated and this is only the first step.

Here is the bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469

Here is how it's done on the Mac and what developers are trying to do compared to how it's done know: http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20787/1_gLKB5t.png

Here are Apple UI guidelines that show where icons should be used in the menu_ http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/XHIGMenus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TPXREF116

This is how Apple does menus and how it should look in the end: http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20796/2_75g19c.png

And last, here is the thread in Karmic sub forums that talks about this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1228186

And what does the last poll entry mean? What problem do icons have that needs to be fixed?

[stwschool]

I would actually argue that for many of the tasks they're looking at, we should drop text and replace it with icons. It's better for internationalisation etc for instance.

[frup]

I doubt this will affect me much.

I can read and I can also interpret a picture.

I find sometimes I get fooled by icons though. I get my terminal and calculator mixed up sometimes in my gnome do dock because I'm just not paying enough attention. I've done it on a few other occasions where I don't read what I'm doing and just click the first icon that is similar.

Usually I'm very tired when this happens.

[wersdaluv]

Interesting. As a psych major and usablity guy, I am intrigued. I'm trying it now. I'll report what happens. I also agree with what I read on your 2nd link. Just text works better than just icons. I used to have just icons because that's what I saw on perfectska04's desktop and he justified it by saying that it's to save screen space and to be visually consistent with Firefox.

Just text *may* be better than the other to choices. Let's test.

[kpkeerthi]

I don't prefer to see icons and text, on buttons especially. I welcome this change. I also wish they provide an option somewhere (gconf) for people to revert back to old behavior.

[23meg]

I don't prefer to see icons and text, on buttons especially. I welcome this change. I also wish they provide an option somewhere (gconf) for people to revert back to old behavior.

Actually there is such an option, and the change is all about shipping it disabled by default, and replacing it with sane guidelines for applications in the future.


First of all, you missed the part where icons won't be dropped from the menus for ALL things. Applications, Files, Bookmarks and Devices will have icons. This is just enabled to make app developers fix their apps. Also the Gnome HIG is going to have to be updated and this is only the first step.

Here is the bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469

Here is how it's done on the Mac and what developers are trying to do compared to how it's done know: http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20787/1_gLKB5t.png

Here are Apple UI guidelines that show where icons should be used in the menu_ http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/XHIGMenus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TPXREF116

This is how Apple does menus and how it should look in the end: http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20796/2_75g19c.png

And last, here is the thread in Karmic sub forums that talks about this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1228186

And what does the last poll entry mean? What problem do icons have that needs to be fixed?

Quoted for emphasis, since in times of bold and potentially controversial changes, unfortunately, most of us tend to immediately overreact without thinking and getting informed on what's actually going on.

The change is not about getting rid of icons in menus and buttons altogether; it's about taking a step towards amending the lack of design guidelines regarding which cases they should be used in and how.

More relevant reading:

http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=103

[zekopeko]

Quoted for emphasis, since in times of bold and potentially controversial changes, unfortunately, most of us tend to immediately overreact without thinking and getting informed on what's actually going on.

The change is not about getting rid of icons in menus and buttons altogether; it's about taking a step towards amending the lack of design guidelines regarding which cases they should be used in and how.

More relevant reading:

http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=103

Quoted for emphasis :) .

I'm perplexed at how much people tend to comment on things by only reading the title of the thread and (if were lucky) a few posts. I completely ignored the thread about icons in KK forums until I read it entirely. Then I read the bug report and any link from the bug report and the forum thread. In 5mins I understood what exactly the Gnome devs want.

[Jimleko211]

It doesn't affect me much, since I use KDE. However, I quite like the icons in Gnome, I would be sad to see them gone in the menus.

[mihai.ile]

Started the thread as I could not find anything related, after reading the KK thread it seems that there are many arguments to go this path but even if I like more with icons, if at least they put a well documented page for the developers like this one (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/XHIGMenus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TPXREF116)to follow, maybe it's better this way.
Not because the lack of icons but because the developers have a common pattern to follow when developing.This indeed will improve usability for the end user which does switch back and forth between many applications when using the PC

[windows-killer]

gnome should do whatever is best to make the interface more simple and attractive at the same time.
I think they should make it user friendly and limit the use of the terminal.

[gnomeuser]

It's easy to switch back for people who prefer that. Personally I would like to spend a bit more time with my setup in this configuration before I make up my mind entirely.

The biggest issue I see with this is dyslexic users, now that one can no longer associate an icon with an action reading and having good translations becomes even more important than it was already. I know my ex-girlfriend e.g. will have a lot harder with such an interface.

It does save space and bring things more in line with what other OSes does as well and it looks a bit cleaner I guess and it removes idiotic metaphors like a diskette for "save" which still is the default for many iconsets (I haven't seen floppy in years.. does anyone still use them?)

The best thing though is that it removes a lot of colors of the interface, all those icons makes it hard to let a menu feel professional and slick rather than what a 5 year old with a set of crayons could do if you turn you back for a few minutes.

[23meg]

The biggest issue I see with this is dyslexic users, now that one can no longer associate an icon with an action reading and having good translations becomes even more important than it was already. I know my ex-girlfriend e.g. will have a lot harder with such an interface.

Smells like a good bug report.


and it removes idiotic metaphors like a diskette for "save" which still is the default for many iconsets (I haven't seen floppy in years.. does anyone still use them?)

Toolbar buttons, where the diskette icon is prevalent, are unaffected.

[mc4100]

Interesting.

Just text *may* be better than the other to choices. Let's test.
I've been doing the same: knowing it might grow on me if I just kept using for a while, and it has -- I really like plain buttons. Icon-less menus however ....

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Toolbar buttons, where the diskette icon is prevalent, are unaffected.

I, for one, would actually love to see those get changed at the same time, maybe morphed into menus like Windows 7 is doing. It just makes sense. The current role of toolbars is ridiculous; most of them just provide common functions like Save / Print / Zoom / Undo which are already put in common places in the menu which is right above the toolbar. It's all a bit of a mess.