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View Full Version : The Infinite Banter between Linux Junkie, and Not.



secondstage
July 30th, 2009, 03:56 AM
A friend (Eric) and I (Jonathan) are recording a song or two, and got into a discussion about whose house to have it at. Mine with Ubuntu Studio, and all digital stuff or his with a true drum kit, and Mac OS X. Although I was driving uphill in a 1 HP car, against a force to be reckoned with, I still went on. I'd like to hear your thoughts, opinions, likes and dislikes about what I had to say and what he had to say. And just a note, I probably don't have all of my fact straight, so let me know about that too please.

Jonathan
do you want to do it at matt's or my house tomorrow?
but I don't have drums.

Eric
my house (drums) and bring sy[n]th[esizer] and m[i]di link

Jonathan
ugh. I need a drum set. why midi link?
we can't connect it to your computer.

Eric
nevermind

Jonathan
yeah. good job. we cuold do it at my house, since I do have htat drum program. if you want to be able to do all the stuff. plus no white noise on the amp.
and surround sound.
and digital signal processing, and a bunch of other stuff.
and kool aid.

Eric
NO DRUM PROGRAM!
real drums

Jonathan
i have good drum samples.

Eric
it doesnt sound the same if its not through the amp, and drums arent good with samples, its a wierd song, so it needs original parts that i know you dont have

Jonathan
i really ought to just sample your kit. i have amp simulators.

Eric
no, it has to be played, its not the same, and IT IS NEVER THE SAME AS THE AMP
trust me, otherwise jake [Jake is a good recording guy] would have us record with simulators

Jonathan
ok, so bring the amp.
and if you are doing guitar, you really can't do drum at the same time. we just need a base beat to keep steady time whilst you and me, and matt play
and last time i checked you don' t have a drumming robot.

Eric
we already have all that done
NO COMPUTER GENERATED CRAP!

Jonathan
then how do you plan to play drums, and guitar?

Eric
we have everything but your part and the drums

Jonathan
recorded?

Eric
NO COMPUTER GENERATED CRAP
yes
thats what we were doing today

Jonathan
and you plan to record it in garage band? even you know that my free programs can do a better job.

Eric
you know that proffesional bands have recorded albums in garageband right?

Jonathan
yes, but you know that takes careful mastering by professional people in not-garageband right?

Eric
garage band has presets that were made by proffesionals, trevor, non of your free programs can beat apple stuff

Jonathan
in the right hands it probably could. but I'm not going to go into that.

Eric
if it was, then people would use the free programs trevor

Jonathan
Actually, most people don't even know of the free programs, so they would even have a chance of be able to work with them.

Eric
if they were that good, people would know about them

Jonathan
Only about 2.11% of the world uses Linux. [Based on http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php] It could be undiscovered talent.

Eric
....VERY unlikely

Jonathan
These programs have only been in the hands of the public since about 2004. So 5 years. Plus when most people think free they think crap, and don't give it a second thought. Most pros are happy paying more than they should on stuff, and usually look the other from free. That in itself is the one major thing that holds back Linux. For example Fedora made people pay 50 bucks for the server version, and they noticed an exponential increase in the people that were willing to use it. Plus Linux itself has only been on the the scene for a small while now, so that also contributes to the unknownness.

Eric
linux has been around 5 years, and your saying that mac copies them....

Jonathan
Also there are no advertisements. Imagine if Apple never advertised. they wouldn't have jumped from 2 t 5 percent worldwide usage in the last 4 years.

Eric
we got that i mac in 2002 with that software

Jonathan
no. I'm saying that the programs like Ardour, Jack, and others have only been well functional for the last 5. Linux itself has been stable for at least 20 years, or more.

Eric
whatever

Jonathan
Point, and case, you wouldn't know about Linux had I not known you. and I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't know about Linux (further than just knowing it existed) until College.

Eric
ok, congrats

Jonathan
College if you went into website stuff. Prob. allot later if not. You know that I'm right, so lets just end this, and meet at your house.
tomorrow.

Eric
....no, if they were really that great, people would use them.

Jonathan
For God's sake eric drop it.

Eric
nobodies gonna make an awesome program and give it out for free like that and not advertise it

Jonathan
If the program is free how do you think they will have the money to advertise?
I'd like to hear how you make money from not making money.

Eric
...by having a good program that you sell

Jonathan
But wasn't the program free?
thats half of the point here.

Eric
that's either idiotic, or they know the programs not good enough for people to pay for

Jonathan
No its called open source. They know that they need help from a community of people to continually grow the code, and make the program better. They know they can't just do it themselves, and so they make it open source. Think if Firefox was closed source. It would suck. Windows sucks because they can't get it close to secure, and stable, because they never got the second opinion from a community. Even OSX has its roots in open source. Imagine having something and not be able to start a company with the money you have so instead you let it be free for people to openly distibute, openly change, and openly share. Thats what they are doing.

Eric
then you make no money for it and essentially wasted your time

Jonathan
You really just can't grasp the idea of open source, can you?

Eric
not free programs that are as good as you say they ar

Jonathan
wow.

.Maleficus.
July 30th, 2009, 04:20 AM
Ok. I'll touch on the Linux side of things first.

1. Linux started in 1991. Your 20 year guess was close though ;).
2. Ardour vs. GarageBand is a silly argument. They are pretty similar, and programs really mean nothing if you can't use it right. If he knows GarageBand and not Ardour, obviously you wouldn't want to use Ardour.
3. Free vs. Paid-for is another "meh" argument to have. Linux is free but I trust all of my computers with it. I know it's built well because I've used it for a while, not because my $50 purchase said it would be good.
4. Yes, advertisements add to product usage, that's a given.
5. GarageBand was around before Jack and Ardour, so GarageBand couldn't have been copying either of those. Ardour (IMO) was made to be a FL clone (what you guys should really be using ;)).

If he doesn't like open source, don't force it on him. All it does is start an argument like what you posted. This is also just my opinion, but I wouldn't try to end an argument with "you know I'm right" and then "drop it". It makes you sound arrogant.

Now to touch on the music:

1. Real drums really are the way to go if you're recording. Just like you wouldn't use a VST to get your amp sound, you shouldn't use drum samples for your drums. I've done both and the real drums sound much nicer.
2. Who needs a drumming robot when you have a metronome? If you can't keep beat with a metronome you probably can't with drums either.
3. Again with the program choice; use what you know, not what you "think" is better. I wouldn't go into a recording/mixing session with Pro Tools simply because I don't know how to use it.

I'm tired.

dmizer
July 30th, 2009, 08:08 AM
This argument started out as a drummer with a desire to record live drums rather than use a drum track. That seems to be a perfectly legetimate standpoint. It didn't turn into FLOS vs. Apple until here:

and you plan to record it in garage band? even you know that my free programs can do a better job.

nothingspecial
July 30th, 2009, 08:48 AM
Real drums, real guitars real everything.

B*llocks to FOSS, this is music.