PC is a just a tool [Archive]

ade234uk

July 27th, 2009, 04:40 PM

richg

July 27th, 2009, 04:46 PM

Yes, a PC is just a tool but to those who do not have a life, it becomes a person, needs to be cute, needs to Rock, needs a name, needs to be male or female, need s desktop that Rocks, needs to have nice eye candy, etc.

Rich

Barrucadu

July 27th, 2009, 04:47 PM

I am a firm believer that a PC or laptop is a toy to be played with :)

Work is an unfortunate side effect.

gn2

July 27th, 2009, 04:51 PM

I only use computers for leisure purposes.

JillSwift

July 27th, 2009, 04:53 PM

It's already "just" a tool, and a toy.

Properly used it reduces the number of jobs you have to do in your life. Properly played with it can induce much pleasure and fun. It's not required to get things done or have fun, either. I's just another thing in the universe.

More importantly, there is no enforcement of its use, nor is there likely to be. Use or play with your PC entirely at your will.

damis648

July 27th, 2009, 04:54 PM

If it is a 'tool' like you say, it is meant to be used to help get stuff done. If having a computer in your refrigerator helps you get stuff done, go for it.

LowSky

July 27th, 2009, 05:02 PM

The thing that really irks me is that with all the technology, we are now responsible for even more work than our ancestors ever did. There is no piece of mind, everything has to be done the instant you get it. Not at work, no problem the provided laptop ensures you can work anywhere, not at home, no problem your work provided cell phone can help you answer phone calls. Turn them off and your easily replaced by someone who doesn't mind not having a personal life.

sure we created calculators and spreadsheet programs to save time but somehow we have created more work than ever. 100 years ago people fought for a 40 hour work week, now companies have a standard 40 hour work week but also expect an extra few in the office and few from home. All they did was push the hours onto people using words like team player and incentives toward higher salary.

As for needing more tech, we certainly do but not the talking fish, game boys, or interactive fridges that order you milk. we need real science like artificial gravity for space travel, and power that doesn't harm the earth, or how about an tax system that is simple and easy to understand and don't need a few dozen warm bodies to argue over the method of reporting wages and expenses.

Keyper7

July 27th, 2009, 05:06 PM

speedwell68

July 27th, 2009, 05:23 PM

A PC is just a tool at the end of the day. But tools can be used for work and play. I like working on old Volkswagens so I use my hand tools for pleasure purposes. I use my PC for both.:D

If tools were never developed civilisation as we know it today.

gnomeuser

July 27th, 2009, 05:27 PM

Yes, it's a tool. I like tools to assist me in every day life. I would love for my coffee table to be able to transform into a game setup for when the friends come over, or a sketch pad for doodling out ideas (in a collaborative environment online for bonus points).

I would like some means of having my fridge know what is inside, when it expires, know what is on offer in the local stores and suggest me a varied healthy diet while optimizing my food budget and letting me use what I have to it's fullest extend with as little waste as possible. It should also learn what food I like and what I hate.

I like the idea of a media center that automatically pulls down or streams the music, TV shows and movies I like, suggests new ones and lets me give feedback.

In fact it's so much a tool I think it should stop being a computer in the sense we are used to.

chriskin

July 27th, 2009, 05:33 PM

I am a firm believer that a PC or laptop is a toy to be played with :)

Work is an unfortunate side effect.

i agree with this one :)
:popcorn:

Arup

July 27th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Fully agreed, we are turning into one tech zombie dependant society in general, soon all sports and even relationships will be done in virtual stupid realm, its a pathetic state indeed.

original_jamingrit

July 27th, 2009, 05:46 PM

So, what part of your work consists in posting on these forums?

Because this post of yours certainly didn't come from a coffee maker. It came from your so-called "work tool".

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Clever. You're right though. A PC is a tool, just as much as a desk covered in stationary is a tool, a phone is a tool, a workbench is a tool. These are all things you need to do work with, but they aren't limited to work. With stationary, you could write in to your favorite aunt, with a work bench you can make your kid a toy train. The line between work and pleasure blurs in places like these, especially for those who actually get pleasure out of work, or is a professional socializer ;-)

And of course, like any work place or tool, aesthetics can be appealing, and help keep a focused mind. The only problems come when you spend more time working on aesthetics rather than working on your tool's intended purpose. But if you think it's worth it in the end, then what of that?

This is coming from somebody who uses vanilla Fluxbox, with a small bit of conky in the corner and the same background wallpaper I've had for a month.

cmay

July 27th, 2009, 06:04 PM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.

I cant stand the idea of my coffee table becoming a touch screen PC, or controlling the fridge ordering my shopping, or taking over the TV, because in the end you cant get away from it.

As far as I am concerned a PC is work tool and that is it. It should stay in one room and packed away at the end of the day, turned off. Peace and quiet.

In the end my personal opinion is that, the more technology you introduce in to your life, the more jobs you keep on adding, when the way you did it originally worked fine.

I mean how much more technology do we really need?
Does anyone else feel the same?
yes.
as much as i love sitting at my computer i agree with this.

a computer is fun to play with as it can be programmed. it can save a lot of money for a hobby artist instead of hardware audio recording units . what computers are used for at work is for a reason i guess.

but i want to control my life and what gadgets i must have to be able to live. a computer is not the first gadget i would need .- my lighter and tobacco pouch is. next my pocket knife. and a backpack. in worst case scenario that is.

Woormy

July 27th, 2009, 06:27 PM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.

I cant stand the idea of my coffee table becoming a touch screen PC, or controlling the fridge ordering my shopping, or taking over the TV, because in the end you cant get away from it.

As far as I am concerned a PC is work tool and that is it. It should stay in one room and packed away at the end of the day, turned off. Peace and quiet.

In the end my personal opinion is that, the more technology you introduce in to your life, the more jobs you keep on adding, when the way you did it originally worked fine.

I mean how much more technology do we really need?
Does anyone else feel the same?

In the future, people will take internet connection for granted in everything just as they currently do with electricity. You won't notice it as much and it won't bother you. I don't hear many people complain that they need to get away from electricity unless they're hardcore campers.

khelben1979

July 27th, 2009, 07:16 PM

I disagree. Sure, a computer is used like a tool but for myself it's much much more. I want my computer "to feel good" so I take care of it just like someone takes care of their pet, almost.. I will never feel as much for a PC as an Amiga, though.

heyyy

July 27th, 2009, 07:18 PM

pc should have been just a tool but as all things in life it evolves through time

thewolfman

July 27th, 2009, 07:34 PM

For some of us its entertainment; for others a way of communicating instantly around the world (or corner!).
Each person has their own needs and can define their reasons for using a PC but that said; when push comes to shove it is still a tool!.
Granted a very useful tool, without the great work of people like Bill and Linus (and many others of course) where would we be, still popping down to the post office to get that stamp; still having to go out to get a newspaper, although the interaction with the shop assistants is great!,now we have instant communication and mailing system oh! and btw, lets not forget how many of us play games on our PC's.

Tool or not, enjoy it; because it certainly has enhanced my life because I learn a little more each time I use it!.:D

Regards to all.

thewolfman

Keyper7

July 27th, 2009, 08:08 PM

Fully agreed, we are turning into one fire zombie dependant society in general, soon we will forget how to fight animals because fire scares them and we will lose our teeth because we are getting too used to soft, cooked food, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one stone zombie dependant society in general, soon a hunter won't need muscles anymore because spears and hatchets make everything easier and we will become all wimpy and skinny, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one cropping zombie dependant society in general, soon nobody will know how to hunt for their own food anymore, they will just sit, do nothing and wait for the food to grow, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one horse zombie dependant society in general, soon everyone will forget how to walk and depend on horses to go anywhere, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one car zombie dependant society in general, at least we used living being which we cared about for transportation, now we are just the contents of souless metal cases with wheels, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one writing zombie dependant society in general, soon everyone will forget how it is to look at someone in the eye and talk, people will stay in their houses and only communicate through letters, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one TV zombie dependant society in general, soon everyone will forget how it is play sports and interact, will only stay at home, looking at a screen all day, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one machine zombie dependant society in general, soon all employees will be replaced by machines, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one computer zombie dependant society in general, soon Skynet will rise and we will die in a nuclear armageddon, its a pathetic state indeed.

Fully agreed, we are turning into one tech zombie dependant society in general, soon all sports and even relationships will be done in virtual stupid realm, its a pathetic state indeed.

Get off my lawn.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

lisati

July 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Political Correctness can be taken to stupid extremes.

Ooops, wrong meaning of "PC"...... sorry about that, chief!

Using the tools can be fun!

chrisinspace

July 27th, 2009, 08:39 PM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.

I actually set up an HTPC in my living room, attached it to my TV, and cut off cable. By allowing my computer to evolve into my entertainment center, I freed up my life. Now I stream my favorite shows. When one is over, I have to make a conscious decision to start another one. My family and I now only watch a couple of hours of TV a week instead of one show after another in succession. Not to mention, we are saving almost $100/month. Anything can take over your life if you let it, but if you think of creative ways to make changes and use time more efficiently, you end up with more free time, not less.

As for the people complaining that work follows them everywhere, set boundaries with your job. If you can't establish a balance with your job, look for a new one. I have held several jobs over the years, and while things do come up once in a while outside of normal business hours, I have never accepted a position from a company that expects me to be on-call 24 hours a day.

hanzomon4

July 27th, 2009, 08:45 PM

Apparently some of you have never known the joys of using a table saw

NCLI

July 28th, 2009, 12:28 PM

Well, it's pretty much still a tool for now, but once AI really becomes big and useful, they will be more than that, and I'm really looking forward to that day.

swoll1980

July 28th, 2009, 01:01 PM

technology should not take over your life.

the TV

the fridge

:-k

alienclone

July 28th, 2009, 02:38 PM

well said swoll1980

Maheriano

July 28th, 2009, 06:23 PM

I actually set up an HTPC in my living room, attached it to my TV, and cut off cable. By allowing my computer to evolve into my entertainment center, I freed up my life. Now I stream my favorite shows. When one is over, I have to make a conscious decision to start another one.
Not sure if you know this but you can set your torrent downloader to monitor RSS feeds for the weekly release of your favourite shows and download them automatically when they become available. No more remembering to download them.

And in regards to the original post, I agree! Well, kind of. I agree that computers shouldn't become a standard and you shouldn't be chained to it and become dependent on it. I do believe though, that you can turn your house into a walking (okay, maybe not walking), talking robot if it makes things easier for you. Just don't fall into the trap of searching the entire house for 2 hours looking for the remote when you could simply just get up and change the channel!

saulgoode

July 28th, 2009, 06:51 PM

Ahh, but it's a Turing-complete tool.

SirBismuth

July 28th, 2009, 07:31 PM

Apparently some of you have never known the joys of using a table saw

Nah, I prefer Texas Chainsaws...:evil:

:D

B

beattyml1

August 29th, 2009, 01:16 AM

Yes it is just a tool, but remember that a tool can take on different uses in different hands.

Take a knife for instance. A knife in the hands of a craftsman can earn him an income, in the hands of a hobbyist it can be used for the fun of whittling, in the hands of a mad man it can be used for the "fun" murder or suicide. It's all in how you use it, and you can use it for fun, but the key is how you use it for fun.

Another example, Facebook can be used in many different ways, when used as your primary means of communication it leads to insignificant communication and in turn insignificant relationships, but when used to supplement existing means of communication it can be a valuable tool.(I use Facebook more as content gathering/distribution, for sharing things that are not as easily or well said in spoken format)

Also note that if we all followed your idea technology for fun, there would be no need for technology at work.

I do agree with you that technology should be a means and not an end and that in many cases technology has unfortunately become the end, but that end can also be our enjoyment.

Don't blame your pencil for the misspelled words.

BuffaloX

August 29th, 2009, 01:48 AM

1: PC is a just a tool

2: I mean how much more technology do we really need?

3: Does anyone else feel the same?

1: Since 1982 I have bought all my computers as toys, the practical applications are just side effects that came along later on.
Today the PC is much more than "just" a tool, it is part of our infrastructure.

2: We need new energy technology for starters.
Robots to cook and clean.
Holographic monitors.
Virtual Reality suits.

3: Not really.

Tipped OuT

August 29th, 2009, 02:00 AM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.

I cant stand the idea of my coffee table becoming a touch screen PC, or controlling the fridge ordering my shopping, or taking over the TV, because in the end you cant get away from it.

As far as I am concerned a PC is work tool and that is it. It should stay in one room and packed away at the end of the day, turned off. Peace and quiet.

In the end my personal opinion is that, the more technology you introduce in to your life, the more jobs you keep on adding, when the way you did it originally worked fine.

I mean how much more technology do we really need?
Does anyone else feel the same?

100% agreed. I know quite a few people here must've been offended by your post.

It's the truth, a computer is nothing more then a tool (yes a "tool" that can also entertain). You use it and put it away, not make it apart of your life. I know people who are on the computer (at will) almost 24/7, and I really feel sorry for them....

hanzomon4

August 29th, 2009, 02:02 AM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.

I cant stand the idea of my coffee table becoming a touch screen PC, or controlling the fridge ordering my shopping, or taking over the TV, because in the end you cant get away from it.

As far as I am concerned a PC is work tool and that is it. It should stay in one room and packed away at the end of the day, turned off. Peace and quiet.

In the end my personal opinion is that, the more technology you introduce in to your life, the more jobs you keep on adding, when the way you did it originally worked fine.

I mean how much more technology do we really need?
Does anyone else feel the same?

100% agreed. I know quite a few people here must've been offended by your post.

It's the truth, a computer is nothing more then a tool (yes a "tool" that can also entertain). You use it and put it away, not make it apart of your life. I know people who are on the computer (at will) almost 24/7, and I really feel sorry for them....

You two won't get invited to star trek

Tipped OuT

August 29th, 2009, 02:09 AM

You two won't get invited to star trek

:( Aw darn...

Keyper7

August 29th, 2009, 03:33 AM

It's the truth, a computer is nothing more then a tool (yes a "tool" that can also entertain). You use it and put it away, not make it apart of your life. I know people who are on the computer (at will) almost 24/7, and I really feel sorry for them....

Why feel sorry? Are they unhappy?

Different people, different opinions, different ways of living.

There's no right or wrong in this issue.

MasterNetra

August 29th, 2009, 03:38 AM

Tipped OuT

August 29th, 2009, 03:47 AM

Why feel sorry? Are they unhappy?

Different people, different opinions, different ways of living.

There's no right or wrong in this issue.

I feel sorry for them because there's more to life then what's on your computer screen. I fail to understand how anybody could not realize that.

Keyper7

August 29th, 2009, 05:19 AM

I feel sorry for them because there's more to life then what's on your computer screen. I fail to understand how anybody could not realize that.

You didn't answer my second question. Are they unhappy?

The two problems with the "there's more to life" argument is 1) there is an infinite amount of things in life, which means this argument can be used against pretty much everything and 2) you are not specifying exactly what is on the computer screen.

On 1: please cite some "more to life" things that are logically and factually necessary in a person's life, and not only in your opinion.

On 2: sure, a guy using the computer a lot of time can be, for example, a gamer alienated from reality. But he can also be a guy who is reading the latest books, watching the latest movies, learning the latest news and checking the latest sport results. He can be a guy chatting online with a girlfriend who travelled overseas. He can be a illustration or audio artist whose preferred canvas happens to be the computer. He can be, at this very moment, using the instant messenger to set up a date to go out and have a beer with his friends.

I will repeat myself: there is no right or wrong in this matter.

Tipped OuT

August 29th, 2009, 06:01 AM

You didn't answer my second question. Are they unhappy?

The two problems with the "there's more to life" argument is 1) there is an infinite amount of things in life, which means this argument can be used against pretty much everything and 2) you are not specifying exactly what is on the computer screen.

On 1: please cite some "more to life" things that are logically and factually necessary in a person's life, and not only in your opinion.

On 2: sure, a guy using the computer a lot of time can be, for example, a gamer alienated from reality. But he can also be a guy who is reading the latest books, watching the latest movies, learning the latest news and checking the latest sport results. He can be a guy chatting online with a girlfriend who travelled overseas. He can be a illustration or audio artist whose preferred canvas happens to be the computer. He can be, at this very moment, using the instant messenger to set up a date to go out and have a beer with his friends.

I will repeat myself: there is no right or wrong in this matter.

Oh God... Are you seriously going to try to debate with me whether being behind a computer screen 24/7 is not living life to its fullest? Really? No offense, but I think you need a hobby man.

These debates I'm running into are getting more and more ridiculous as days go on. I think I need to just take a break from these forums a bit.

-TT

saulgoode

August 29th, 2009, 06:11 AM

Oh God... Are you seriously going to try to debate with me whether being behind a computer screen 24/7 is not living life to its fullest? Really? No offense, but I think you need a hobby man.

I recommend beekeeping.

ceti331

August 29th, 2009, 06:15 AM

I am firm believer that a PC or Laptop should stay as they are and technology should not take over your life.
...
I mean how much more technology do we really need?
Does anyone else feel the same?

I think you're on completely the wrong forum :)

a computer is a bicycle for the mind - best analogy ever.

lisati

August 29th, 2009, 06:16 AM

I suggest the following as a possible hobby: look for a "Politically Correct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_correct)" way of either agreeing or disagreeing about the usefulness of the personal computer as a tool.

ceti331

August 29th, 2009, 06:34 AM

1: Since 1982 I have bought all my computers as toys, the practical applications are just side effects that came along later on.
Today the PC is much more than "just" a tool, it is part of our infrastructure.

2: We need new energy technology for starters.
Robots to cook and clean.
Holographic monitors.
Virtual Reality suits.

3: Not really.

I would go further than that and say at this point, technology creates humans NOT vica versa.
Consider the whole industrial system as an organism with a hive-mind, the telecoms/internet is it's rapidly evolving "brain", and humans are simply component cells incapable of survival individually. I say that due to peak oil/malthusian type argument - to survive without tech would require drastic population reduction

SunnyRabbiera

August 29th, 2009, 07:36 AM

No its not just a tool, its a Swiss Army Knife :D

RabbitWho

August 29th, 2009, 08:12 AM

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/perspective.png

BuffaloX

August 29th, 2009, 12:23 PM

I would go further than that and say at this point, technology creates humans NOT vica versa.
Consider the whole industrial system as an organism with a hive-mind, the telecoms/internet is it's rapidly evolving "brain", and humans are simply component cells incapable of survival individually. I say that due to peak oil/malthusian type argument - to survive without tech would require drastic population reduction

Stop technology => stop having kids.

NCLI

August 29th, 2009, 01:09 PM

The more powerful computers become, the more wrong you will be about them being "just a tool" ;)

Murrquan

August 29th, 2009, 02:01 PM

To most people, the computer is an annoying tool that they reluctantly use because their job requires it, and mobile phones are a way for their boss to reach them wherever they are, creating an expectation of constant availability for “working”.

I’ve never viewed my connected technology this way. Yes, computers and phones are a way for me to be connected to my work. But they’re also my play, my hobby, my leisure, my education, my exposure to society, and my enlightenment. I like this connection.

http://www.marco.org/50873688

Keyper7

August 29th, 2009, 04:05 PM

Oh God... Are you seriously going to try to debate with me whether being behind a computer screen 24/7 is not living life to its fullest?

No. What I'm saying is that, at the end of the day, nobody lives life to its fullest regardless of what they do and there's no such thing as a correct way of living, just opinions.

Disclaimer: I use the computer a lot, but mainly for work. I also go to the gym four times a week, regularly go out with friends and have several hobbies I like. I'm not a person who stays in the computer 24/7. But if someone does, I don't care. It's none of my business and feeling sorry for them sounds kinda arrogant... "oh, poor thing, he is inferior to me".

Really? No offense, but I think you need a hobby man. These debates I'm running into are getting more and more ridiculous as days go on. I think I need to just take a break from these forums a bit.

Why? This is the Cafe, this is a lighthearted conversation whose outcome I don't really care about and all my posts in this thread took less than two or three minutes to type and post. I'm just smalltalking. I never considered this a debate. Just people expressing their opinions and hearing others'.

Instead of stressing over it and leaving these forums, maybe you should start seeing the Cafe as what it actually is: a place for casual talk.

ceti331

August 29th, 2009, 11:17 PM

Stop technology => stop having kids.

more,
stop technology = exterminate 80% of humanity

be greatful for the quantity of "humanity" technology permits

red_Marvin

August 29th, 2009, 11:35 PM

It may be only a tool, but like all other tools it is an extention of the body and mind. A very powerful one at that.

Tipped OuT

August 29th, 2009, 11:39 PM

No. What I'm saying is that, at the end of the day, nobody lives life to its fullest regardless of what they do and there's no such thing as a correct way of living, just opinions.

Disclaimer: I use the computer a lot, but mainly for work. I also go to the gym four times a week, regularly go out with friends and have several hobbies I like. I'm not a person who stays in the computer 24/7. But if someone does, I don't care. It's none of my business and feeling sorry for them sounds kinda arrogant... "oh, poor thing, he is inferior to me".

Why? This is the Cafe, this is a lighthearted conversation whose outcome I don't really care about and all my posts in this thread took less than two or three minutes to type and post. I'm just smalltalking. I never considered this a debate. Just people expressing their opinions and hearing others'.

Instead of stressing over it and leaving these forums, maybe you should start seeing the Cafe as what it actually is: a place for casual talk.

Casual talk? Since when was debating about whether or not being behind a computer 24/7, is living life to its fullest "casual talk"? Poor social skills, but that's another story.

And I don't know about you, but if you're staring at a screen all day, and aren't able to go out, explore, and experience the world for what it is, then I automatically feel sorry for you. I know people here get easily offended by convorsations like these because they start to realize the cold hard truth about what kind of life they have.

It's okay, time to man up.

Good day to you sir. :)

Katalog

August 29th, 2009, 11:40 PM

If there is an advancement that involves PC technology that makes my life/work/play more efficient or entertaining I'm not opposed to using it, and it's not like anyone is going to cram it down my throat if I am opposed to it. Everyone is entitled their own philosiphies, and they're welcome to them. Keep believing what you want to believe, and do things the way you want to do them. Of course there are some exceptions when it comes to certain occupations (i.e. being leashed to a work-issued Blackberry), but otherwise it's not like you can be forced to do or use anything you don't want to (or at least not yet).

nothingspecial

August 30th, 2009, 12:22 AM

I may sound like a terrible old hippy (which I`m not) here, but hey, do what you want to do.

I have a family, a mortgage to pay, a job (which has absolutely nothing to do with computers) to hold down and I do it. My kids are doing well at school and my family is solid.

I spend a lot of time at my computer......... after I`ve sorted everything else out.
I do other things that may not strictly be allowed (if you know what I mean) ....... after I`ve made sure everything is right.

It`s a question of priorities. My first is my family (wife, kids and by extension job), after I`ve made sure they are happy (as far as possible) I do what I want to do. If I want to sit in front of the computer for an hour then why not? I might want to go to the pub (bar), or listen to tunes, or watch tv (with or without my wife). I might want to play music or go for a walk etc etc etc.

I get alot of satisfaction/enjoyment out of my computer(s), but for me they are more of a toy than a tool. My computer time is leisure time.

The title of this thread is "PC is just a tool". I think more a toy and I don`t even play games. My computer(s) are mainly used for playing music, videos, creating stopmotion animation etc etc etc. That`s fun stuff. Yes they are a tool for doing these things but these things are stuff I enjoy.

This all said, the future of technology scares me. I spent years resisting computers and mobile (cell) phones etc ... even cds (vinyl man). But even I, the most vehement of opposers have sucome, and find myself helping people who know far more about computers (windows) than I do in "cyber-space".

In conclusion, what I`m trying to say, is that, my computer has become a major part of my life .............. but it is to the detriment of my book reading, bass playing, record playing etc etc etc ..................Not the important stuff.

Keyper7

August 30th, 2009, 12:26 AM

Casual talk? Since when was debating about whether or not being behind a computer 24/7, is living life to its fullest "casual talk"?

People casually have debates all the time. Best foods, best movies, best artists, death penalty, abortion, politics... When I say "casual", I mean it's simply people stating different opinions. No one trying to "win", no one taking personally and no one trying to change the others' opinions.

This is the case here. I'm stating my opinion and want to hear details on yours because... well... simply because I find the subject ("what constitutes a full life") interesting.

It's you who seems to be giving this harmless subject, and the Community Cafe, a lot more importance than it deserves. Considering leaving? Come on! :)

And I don't know about you, but if you're staring at a screen all day, and aren't able to go out, explore, and experience the world for what it is, then I automatically feel sorry for you. I know people here get easily offended by convorsations like these because they start to realize the cold hard truth about what kind of life they have.

Of course they get offended: you are treating as truth something that boils down to subjective personal opinions.

"Truth", for me, it's something that can be logically and factually proved. It's not the case here: long before computers were invented, there were always people who chose ways of living considered "limited" by most people (isolate themselves in the mountains, become a reclusive artist, etc.) but, if you asked them, they would say they were happy in their own way and wouldn't change a thing.

My main point: unless it affects other people, we don't have the right to judge other people's lives based on subjective concepts.

And a good day to you too. Let's keep this cool and stay friends. How's the weather over there? :)

Tipped OuT

August 30th, 2009, 12:48 AM

And a good day to you too. Let's keep this cool and stay friends. How's the weather over there? :)

lol... There was never any hard feelings, I just got frustrated with everything going on. Nothing personal. I respect your opinions, I just feel like people tend to get easily offended by what I say about this, it's kind of a touchy subject... especially for these forums.

Maybe I don't understand, I'm not a geek, just a guy who uses the Internet when he gets home after a hard day at work.

-TT

ceti331

August 30th, 2009, 01:58 AM

It may be only a tool, but like all other tools it is an extention of the body and mind. A very powerful one at that.
[1]the mind is what seperates man from animal,
[2]"a computer is a bicycle for the mind"

ceti331

August 30th, 2009, 02:08 AM

I may sound like a terrible old hippy (which I`m not) here, but hey, do what you want to do.

I have a family,...

In conclusion, what I`m trying to say, is that, my computer has become a major part of my life .............. but it is to the detriment of my book reading, bass playing, record playing etc etc etc ..................Not the important stuff.

and why is your family (or any one elses) important?

did some "god" say they were?

it (they) just burns energy at the end of the day.

Hypothesis:- "ascent of complexity" - 'nature' wants energy to be burned in such a way that the total amount of information is increased.

Randomly copying/mutating humans is kind of ok (no different from any other animal/plant/bacterium/parasite) but at the minute, man+machine fits the bill better.

the computer is NOT just a "tool" or a "toy".

takes so many generations to add usefull information to DNA (via process of barbric random mutation & culling mistakes),... so i'm thinking population control/eugenics arbitrated by machines/internet "industrial hive-mind" is the way forward.
excessive production of humans* wastes energy that should be devoted to machine** evolution.

:)

(*a disease, a cancer of this planet, a plague.. )
(** the cure)

KinKiac

August 30th, 2009, 02:15 AM

Why feel sorry? Are they unhappy?

Different people, different opinions, different ways of living.

There's no right or wrong in this issue.

+1

Oh God... Are you seriously going to try to debate with me whether being behind a computer screen 24/7 is not living life to its fullest? Really? No offense, but I think you need a hobby man.

These debates I'm running into are getting more and more ridiculous as days go on. I think I need to just take a break from these forums a bit.

-TT

lol... There was never any hard feelings, I just got frustrated with everything going on. Nothing personal. I respect your opinions, I just feel like people tend to get easily offended by what I say about this, it's kind of a touchy subject... especially for these forums.

Maybe I don't understand, I'm not a geek, just a guy who uses the Internet when he gets home after a hard day at work.

-TT

I think the reason people may get offended at your statement that you feel sorry for them has absolutely nothing to do with the subject, or these forums. It is the "holier than thou" attitude that such a statement displays. It is the same thing as a person who is in a wheelchair getting offended at such a statement, or a homeless person even. If someone is in pain, feel sorry for the pain they have to incur, if someone has to deal with hardships, then yeah, feel sorry for them.

Those are different situations where the people you are feeling sorry for are dealing with hardships that they DO NOT want to have to deal with, it is not their choice. But, to feel sorry for someone who CHOOSES to live a certain way is displaying an attitude that your way of life is better than theirs or that your opinions are the right ones and that in general you are better than them. A statement like that comes off as arrogant regardless of the topic and it shouldnt come as a surprise that some people on a forum such as this would be offended by your statement.

You were right in your last sentence, you dont understand, because you are not them. I dont understand how some people can sit and fix cars all day, for fun even, but I do not feel sorry for them. You shouldnt feel sorry for someone who has found something they love and a way to do it as much of the time as possible.

I personally work on a computer all day. I go home after a long day at work, crack open a beer, light up a smoke and play on my PC for a few hours before bed. Please, do not feel sorry for me. I like to do this. At times, I also like playing guitar, reading, rollerblading, swimming, camping, drinking, playing pool and just hanging out with friends. I am not completely sheltered, I know there are others things out there to do. But, at this point in my life, I choose spend all my spare time(well most of it)on a PC. Linux and Ubuntu IS my hobby. There is nothing to feel sorry for here.

Tipped OuT

August 30th, 2009, 02:25 AM

I think the reason people may get offended at your statement that you feel sorry for them has absolutely nothing to do with the subject, or these forums. It is the "holier than thou" attitude that such a statement displays. It is the same thing as a person who is in a wheelchair getting offended at such a statement, or a homeless person even. If someone is in pain, feel sorry for the pain they have to incur, if someone has to deal with hardships, then yeah, feel sorry for them.

Those are different situations where the people you are feeling sorry for are dealing with hardships that they DO NOT want to have to deal with, it is not their choice. But, to feel sorry for someone who CHOOSES to live a certain way is displaying an attitude that your way of life is better than theirs or that your opinions are the right ones and that in general you are better than them. A statement like that comes off as arrogant regardless of the topic and it shouldnt come as a surprise that some people on a forum such as this would be offended by your statement.

You were right in your last sentence, you dont understand, because you are not them. I dont understand how some people can sit and fix cars all day, for fun even, but I do not feel sorry for them. You shouldnt feel sorry for someone who has found something they love and a way to do it as much of the time as possible.

I personally work on a computer all day. I go home after a long day at work, crack open a beer, light up a smoke and play on my PC for a few hours before bed. Please, do not feel sorry for me. I like to do this. At times, I also like playing guitar, reading, rollerblading, swimming, camping, drinking, playing pool and just hanging out with friends. I am not completely sheltered, I know there are others things out there to do. But, at this point in my life, I choose spend all my spare time(well most of it)on a PC. Linux and Ubuntu IS my hobby. There is nothing to feel sorry for here.

Not exactly. I do not think I'm better then anyone else. I feel sorry for people who are behind a computer screen 24/7, for a similar reason why I would be sorry for a guy who lost his legs in an accident and can no longer walk. They're missing out in life... and you only have one life. Why waste it behind a computer screen? Go out, explore, learn... adventure. Make the most out of your life.

Just because people are "happy" to be behind a computer screen 24/7 doesn't make it good for them.

I can tell you when people take Cocaine they feel good and happy... does it mean it's good for them? No. Which why I'd feel sorry for someone who is addicted to Cocaine.

See my point? Good.

JillSwift

August 30th, 2009, 02:31 AM

Not exactly. I do not think I'm better then anyone else. I feel sorry for people who are behind a computer screen 24/7, for a similar reason why I would be sorry for a guy who lost his legs in an accident and can no longer walk. They're missing out in life... and you only have one life. Why waste it behind a computer screen? Go out, explore, learn... adventure. Make the most out of your life.

Just because people are "happy" to be behind a computer screen 24/7 doesn't make it good for them.

I can tell you when people take Cocaine they feel good and happy... does it mean it's good for them? No. Which why I'd feel sorry for someone who is addicted to Cocaine.

See my point? Good.
As a disabled person, I have to say: You are being awfully condescending.

I feel sorry for you, Tipped. You are missing out on one of life's most important lessons. It's just sad that you don't realize it.

ceti331

August 30th, 2009, 02:33 AM

Not exactly. I I feel sorry for people who are behind a computer screen 24/7, for a similar reason why I would be sorry for a guy who lost his legs

you really are on the wrong forum.

mac OSX or windows would suit you better surely.

:)

Tipped OuT

August 30th, 2009, 02:37 AM

As a disabled person, I have to say: You are being awfully condescending.

I feel sorry for you, Tipped. You are missing out on one of life's most important lessons. It's just sad that you don't realize it.

How would you know what I am missing? Do you know me? It was just an example by the way. Once again, sorry if you were offended.

JillSwift

August 30th, 2009, 02:39 AM

How would you know what I am missing? Do you know me?Oh, I dearly hope this means that you now understand that your absolutist "you're not living life" response is judgmental.

It was just an example by the way. Once again, sorry if you were offended.
I am offended. That was an example, yes - an example of your absolutist point of view and how in reality it does not apply as broadly as you think it does.

hobo14

August 30th, 2009, 02:44 AM

How would you know what I am missing? Do you know me?Oh, I dearly hope this means that you now understand that your absolutist "you're not living life" response is judgmental.
Well said.

Tipped OuT

August 30th, 2009, 02:52 AM

Oh, I dearly hope this means that you now understand that your absolutist "you're not living life" response is judgmental.

Nope. That doesn't apply here. I'm talking about people who are on the computer 24/7. There's nothing more to now about them. What are they doing right now? They're on the computer. ;) At least you tried.

I am offended. That was an example, yes - an example of your absolutist point of view and how in reality it does not apply as broadly as you think it does.

In your opinion? Okay.

JillSwift

August 30th, 2009, 02:59 AM

Nope. That doesn't apply here. I'm talking about people who are on the computer 24/7. There's nothing more to now about them. What are they doing right now? They're on the computer. ;) At least you tried.Right, you know everything about them. Is it fun being psychic?

In your opinion? Okay.
It's so sad when someone can't tell the difference between the subjective and objective.

ceti331

August 30th, 2009, 03:04 AM

Nope. That doesn't apply here. I'm talking about people who are on the computer 24/7. There's nothing more to now about them. What are they doing right now? They're on the computer.
In your opinion? Okay.

if you analyze all human lives throughout history and compare them, i think you'll find being glued to a computer is quite ok

it's probably quite a good way for nature to utilize biomass.

humans could be doing worse things, e.g. reproducing and continuing to pollute nature with their cancer

:)

Tipped OuT

August 30th, 2009, 03:25 AM

if you analyze all human lives throughout history and compare them, i think you'll find being glued to a computer is quite ok

it's probably quite a good way for nature to utilize biomass.

humans could be doing worse things, e.g. reproducing and continuing to pollute nature with their cancer

:)

True true... that wouldn't be good at all... well... only for that moment when you're getting the "reproducing" done. :P

Right, you know everything about them. Is it fun being psychic?

It's so sad when someone can't tell the difference between the subjective and objective.

Okay.

nothingspecial

August 30th, 2009, 03:30 AM

and why is your family (or any one elses) important?

did some "god" say they were?

it (they) just burns energy at the end of the day.

Hypothesis:- "ascent of complexity" - 'nature' wants energy to be burned in such a way that the total amount of information is increased.

Randomly copying/mutating humans is kind of ok (no different from any other animal/plant/bacterium/parasite) but at the minute, man+machine fits the bill better.

the computer is NOT just a "tool" or a "toy".

takes so many generations to add usefull information to DNA (via process of barbric random mutation & culling mistakes),... so i'm thinking population control/eugenics arbitrated by machines/internet "industrial hive-mind" is the way forward.
excessive production of humans* wastes energy that should be devoted to machine** evolution.

:)

(*a disease, a cancer of this planet, a plague.. )
(** the cure)

Ha ha