IQ and intelligence

[Wisey]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.

However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence, or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others. Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ? I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?

I myself never got an IQ test done, my parents would never lend me teh money for it, but I tested over here for 130:
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf
I have no idea about its accuracy or legitimacy.

So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?

[dragos240]

I don't really see the accuracy of one of these. It's a number, get over it. That's all it is. Just tell him that.

[magh-87]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.

However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence, or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others. Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ? I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?

I myself never got an IQ test done, my parents would never lend me teh money for it, but I tested over here for 130:
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf
I have no idea about its accuracy or legitimacy.

So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?

I had an intelligence test done on my way back when I was in Junior High School (grade 9). The evaluator "kindly" informed my parents and I that I was "lacking in many aspects". I wasn't a math or english wiz back then, I'm better now. I don't entirely believe in the reliability in them as there are many aspects that can control the state of your mind before hand. Example: On the day of the test, I hadn't eaten yet so I was hungry. I had been up late because of homework and had to wake up early for school. Fatigue and hunger were the major distractions in my mind then, not some silly evaluation.
You're only as dumb or smart as you let yourself believe to be. When you
stop learning then I feel that derails from the path of intelligence. You can still be knowledgeable, but it isn't growing so you plateau.

My two cents.

[aikiwolfie]

I haven't seen an IQ test yet that measures what we call "common sense". I have however seen plenty of graduates with shiny shiny degrees who have absolutely no common sense at all. Nicely programmed little useless robots they are.

Intelligence so far as I am concerned is not only the ability to become a human calculator. It's the ability to learn useful information and skills. Apply that learning to real world situations using our imaginations to adapt what we have learned as the situation demands.

[Wisey]

I don't really see the accuracy of one of these. It's a number, get over it. That's all it is. Just tell him that.
Well I believe that he has been told that before, but I think it would be tough for him to accept that he is on the same plane as others after so many years of being above them. :D
Anyway, that really wasn't the point of this thread, some people I have met seem to believe that IQ means a lot in life, others seem to believe what you just said, that it's just a number. I was hoping for some views from both sides.

@magh-87
Thank you for your view. However, can't one argue that knowledge is different from intelligence?

[Viva]

IQ doesn't measure natural thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the greatest scientists of the past score only 100-120 in an IQ test.

[wil]

I do not believe that IQ test is a very good one, it measures how good you are at doing puzzles.

Just because you do well at puzzles does not mean you will be successful in life. It does not measure determination, or your ability to work hard, or your love for the subject.

[mr.propre]

If you have an high IQ, does this automatically mean you can build a nuclear reactor? No. What about a house. Also no. Maybe folding a bird out of paper? Again no.

IQ is just a measurement of the capacity of your intelligences. (I hope this is a right sentence). It's not a measurement of the capacity you actually uses. If you have an high IQ and you never use it to learn something, than you are still dumb.

But even more, if you use it to learn. It still matters what you learn. Would you really call somebody "smart" if he is able to build a nuclear reactor, but isn't able to live on its own? I, for one, not really.

I know lawyers that are thats smart, there to dumb to control there own budget and are getting help of social workers because else they spend it all and end in the gutter.

[khelben1979]

IQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iq) or intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence).

I can read and I can write, yes I'm intelligent! =D>

[Wisey]

That is indeed true, high IQ does not mean success in life, but just today I read a post somewhere in this forum about rocket scientists having high IQs or something, which is why I posted this topic in the first place, does IQ actually measure intelligence, or the capacity for intelligence or however you might put it? I for one have no idea, and after the example of my modest friend, am quite skeptical, which is what prompted me to create this thread.

Are there any studies co-relating high IQ with success in fields typically associated with high intelligence, such as theoretical physics? What about more artistic and creative fields such as music? What is your own experience with IQ, do people with high IQ tend to do some things better, or learn stuff faster? That kind of stuff.

[bacil]

There is couple of things in this.

There is something called social inteligence, and thats probably what most ppl see as "intelligence" that's what is seen out as being intelligent, you know how to stand out either in what you do or what you are

there is also specialised inteligence . so someone who is brill with numbers,sometimes is protrait as looser, fuitcacke etc.

I personaly have been tested on IQ couple of times always scored over 140, but i deffinitely am not anything you would call genious. i am member of MENSA, but taht only means to me that i am good at puzzles and such

So again i think IQ and personality together is what you can see as inteligence

[munky99999]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.
:popcorn:


However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence,
nope.


or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others.
exactly.


Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ?
maybe


I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?
Actually most of the highest IQ people... arent anything.

Marilyn vos Savant is said to have the highest IQ. But all she does is right articles.


So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?
No test on earth is legitimate to test IQ.

What does IQ do? Well depends where you get your iq. Spatial? Mathematical? Language? Visual?

What does it usually mean? It usually means a high IQ in say Spatial means you can quickly understand where spatially things are at, and do it quickly... It also doesnt mean that someone with low spatial IQ cant also do it; let alone learn how to do it as quick.

On top of that... how do you really test these factors well? You cant... how do you test someone's language IQ when language is horrid. Ask someone the definition? Well im sorry but if you have been trained in entymology and that jazz... or already know the defintion.. You wont get the question right... and suddenly you arent as high an iq? What about regionality factors? English in england compared to compton-los angeles; big difference.

Someone might look at Hawking or Einstein and say... HEY! they have a huge IQ. Well last I checked... their theories arent very valid lately. They were great in evolving the way we think which led on to string theory and m theory and such... but not really that great.

Richard Feynman on the otherhand; who is a contemporary of these guys; had an IQ of 125 at the peak. Was he a genius? Was he a great amongst einstein and hawking? You betcha.


Someone's IQ tells you nothing at all.

[moster]

Some confirm idiots are excellent in math. Other "kind" of mentally retarded people are quite good at remembering stuff. We are talking about learning whole telephone book or similar without sweat. Problem is, that some of them do not know how to tie his shoe laces :D

Brain is really strange sometimes.

Personally I thing Nikola Tesla was smartest in newer history. Some of his ideas was out of this world and only technology and materials at his time was holding him back.

[LouisCribben]

there are a lot of qualities that an iq test doesnt measure, like common sense, social intelligence, sense of humour, leadership skills, motivation.

A high iq without some of the other skills listed above is a waste of time.

One thing for sure though is that All other things being equal, a person with a high Iq is far more likely to have a successful life than someone with a low iq

[betrunkenaffe]

You should inform your friend that 143 isn't that special.

The best IQ test I've ever taken had tests of numerous types, not simply logical. That was recently, before that, all the tests seemed to be basically logic puzzles with a smattering of random things.

When they gave us an IQ test in junior high, I remember scoring average. I also distinctly remembering not caring about it, thinking it was a waste of time and so didn't put any effort or real thought into it.

I am not a genius, I am very good at logic and problem solving, that's where the IQ really shows.

I'd recommend people ignore IQ score, it's a detriment more than an asset. The only way to know how smart someone really is, would be to talk to them and get to know them. Some people are book smart (not I, tend to slack in school hardcore), some people are socially smart, etc. Everyone has talent at something.

[betrunkenaffe]

there are a lot of qualities that an iq test doesnt measure, like common sense, social intelligence, sense of humour, leadership skills, motivation.

A high iq without some of the other skills listed above is a waste of time.

One thing for sure though is that All other things being equal, a person with a high Iq is far more likely to have a successful life than someone with a low iq

I would like written documented evidence of this. A study of some sort as well as the criteria given. There are alot of people in this world and as has been displayed by that American guy (don't remember name) who was a bouncer for a long time, IQ doesn't factor.

[LouisCribben]

I would like written documented evidence of this. A study of some sort as well as the criteria given. There are alot of people in this world and as has been displayed by that American guy (don't remember name) who was a bouncer for a long time, IQ doesn't factor.

Fair point, I broke one of the rules which I recently made for myself i.e. never say anything as fact unless it can be backed up with evidence.

No, I don't have any evidence that high iq people are more successful than low iq people, ceteris paribus, it sounds self evident, but it may not be true !

[raccaman]

People with high IQ are not able to do anythig manuall, usually, but they have many other qualities.

[JDShu]

When you believe yourself to be smarter than everybody else, is when you start to become dumber. You stop aspiring to be better and before you know it, you could be at the bottom of the heap.

[Superkoop]

IQ is little more than a number, it tells you how well you score on a particular test. Some IQ tests considered of high quality I will score in excess of 140, while in others of high quality I score about 110. It's totally dependant on what type of questions the test is asking, so if it asks you visual type questions you will do differently than if it asked you qestions in relation to words.

An IQ test is a poor way to determine inteligence, the only way to determine inteligence is knowing the person and observing them in their daily activities along with getting inside of their mind and getting an unbiased view of what they think about.

So don't look too deeply into an IQ test results, rather be content with who you are and what you are good at doing.

[konqueror7]

intelligence won't get you to the top, attitude will...;)

[etnlIcarus]

I would like written documented evidence of this. A study of some sort as well as the criteria given. There are alot of people in this world and as has been displayed by that American guy (don't remember name) who was a bouncer for a long time, IQ doesn't factor.


Fair point, I broke one of the rules which I recently made for myself i.e. never say anything as fact unless it can be backed up with evidence.

No, I don't have any evidence that high iq people are more successful than low iq people, ceteris paribus, it sounds self evident, but it may not be true !
While, "far more likely", is an overstatement and this point lends itself to no argument besides perhaps rectifying economic class disparity, there's simply no question that there is a correlation between IQ scores and conventionally defined, "success".


As for the general subject matter, people seem to be under the false impression that IQ is somehow relevant. Unless you're being tested for educational aptitude or senility, an IQ score is utterly useless. Notions of IQ as a general metric of intelligence come mostly from the fringe or arise from a fundamental misunderstanding of the intent of IQ testing. This is hardly surprising, given the popular media's and general population's literacy when it comes to the [social] sciences.

But since I'm here, I guess I might as well join-in and debase myself in pointless anecdotal conjecture: In my experience, people who are assured of their own intelligence tend to be the most intellectually sloppy people I know. A moderate amount of self-doubt (coupled with feelings of inadequacy or a desire to prove one's self) tends to breed far better reasoning and decision-making than someone who assumes they're right by default because they think they're just that awesome.

And can I just say, the broken English in this thread is effing painful to read and a tad ironic, to boot.

[Wisey]

Thank you for the replies, this is a subject that has been of interest to me, a little because of certain obnoxious people around me.
It was surprising, I thought it had something more to it since so many people make such a fuss about it. I also thought some people would come out in support of it, seems I was wrong.

[dragos240]

Oh and one more thing. Due to his inflated ego now, ask him to do it again. He'll get a lower score, and realize he got lucky.

[chucky chuckaluck]

IQ testing is a measure of performance at a given task - the test itself. someone with an IQ of 150, who doesn't speak english at all, is likely to do less well than someone with an IQ of 120 who is a native english speaker. what does that tell you about someone's intelligence, or physical (brain) capacity for intelligent thinking? nothing.

side note: if i were really the genius everyone says i am, you'd think i'd figure out a way to stop getting all this spam and junk mail from mensa, wouldn't you?

[munky99999]

Oh and one more thing. Due to his inflated ego now, ask him to do it again. He'll get a lower score, and realize he got lucky.

until he does do it again and does better? In grade 11 I had business tech and grade 10 art. Both classes were just plain boring to me. I was in business tech class.. we were learning MS word... I was on the net bored. I took an IQ test online. People behind me were watching me. They stop me about 3/4 the way thru and were like. You got so many of those wrong. I went on... finished and got IQ result of like 148 or something. It was a fairly accurate result I do believe for the time. People started talking... guy my own age in the art class later that day heard about it... didnt believe it. I took another test and got 165 or so. I had to explain how the tests arent that good a way of determining anything.

[koenn]

I

side note: if i were really the genius everyone says i am, you'd think i'd figure out a way to stop getting all this spam and junk mail from mensa, wouldn't you?
just clicking the 'opt out' link in the mail seems to work ... ;)

[koenn]

. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?

i suppose they're meant to measure "intelligence", relative to a Gaussian 'normal' distribution -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_curve_grading

IQ tests usually test some knowledge (eg the meaning of certain words) but seem to focus on abstract thinking and the ability to see relations, although some argue that they merely measure one's ability to score well on IQ tests - or 'to do puzzles' as someone put it.


There's a load of posts here talking about smarts, common sense, being "above others", "natural thinking" (whatever that is), building nuclear reactors, success in live, ... "
An IQ test is not intended to test any of that, so I don't see what all this (off-topic) fuzz is about.

Also, the result of the test is just a number, but there are correlations between the test score and things like the potential to learn, and learn fast, the ability to understand complex and abstract things, the potential to perform well at certain jobs or activities, and so on. Psychologists are trained to interpret the test results in that context, and that's the real meaning of an IQ test, not the bare number.

[automaton26]

A high IQ only means you're good at passing IQ tests - someone with a high IQ can be hopeless at chess for a start (!)

[Wataru8675]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.

However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence, or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others. Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ? I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?

I myself never got an IQ test done, my parents would never lend me teh money for it, but I tested over here for 130:
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf
I have no idea about its accuracy or legitimacy.

So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?

Didn't read any posts except this one (I know, I'm a bad forumer), but I can tell you right now that ALL IQ tests are pretty much null after high school. IQ is defined as "mental age divided by physical age multiplied by 100." Thus, if you're 10, but you have the thought capacity of a 13 year old, your IQ would be 130 (10/13 = .13 * 100 = 130). And there's obviously a different method for folks who are slower than average (10 y/o with a 9 y/o thought capacity).

But when you get to be older, your IQ score can basically tell you, "Oh, yeah, I'm a 25 year-old that thinks like a 31 year old!!" Well...so what? There isn't much difference between how the two think since the brain is nearly fully developed by early-to-mid-20s. Thus, IQ tests are pretty much garbage outside of mandatory school.

They're not even currently used how the original test developer wanted them to be used. When he was commissioned by someone (either the public school system or the army, I don't remember which), he blatantly told the group that there is no way currently to accurately test brain power, and that his test should only be a considered a VERY BASIC guideline.

[BabakSM]

Sorry if I am repeating others, but I didn't read through the whole thread. Ignore if I'm being redundant.

IQ likely doesn't measure intelligence. For one, if it did, that would imply that it is impossible to study for. If this were the case, then no matter how much someone studies, they will get the same score (assuming that their age is held constant or does not change appreciably between testing). IMO I highly doubt that's the case, which means that it, at least in part, tests prior knowledge, which is something different.

IQ tests actually have a higher correlation with wealth, which is evident by the Flynn effect. Nations that have larger middle classes tend to have higher IQs, and countries that are industrializing tend to see larger gains in IQ over time (meaning, industrializing African nations like Nigeria and Kenya have seen huge improvements in their mean IQ when compared to countries like, for example, France over the same time interval). Moreover, the fact that IQs have been fluctuating throughout the 20th century is proof enough that they're likely testing learned abilities (more widespread literacy) than intellectual capacity, which is something intrinsic and genetic.

That doesn't mean that intelligence isn't inherited (because it is); I just highly doubt an exam is going to provide an entirely accurate picture of how intelligent someone is.

[Chronon]

The IQ test was invented to diagnose learning disabilities. If you get an abnormally low score on it then maybe it means you have some learning disability to overcome. I don't think that high scores intrinsically mean much.

[public_void]

What is intelligence? What makes you intelligence? Is it creativity, wisdom, problem solving, knowledge, personality, judgement? If an alien visited Earth how could we tell if it was intelligence? Its strange the word intelligence is used so often and yet we all think we know the meaning, but there is no clear and agreed definition. So if there is not agreed definition how can it be measured. Its like measuring a distance and saying its 78, but 78 what? What humans do is compare attributes such as use of language, problem solving etc to the subject in question such as an animal. By doing that we deem a subject more or less intelligence that us. But even then we only compare a limited set of attributes.

[BuffaloX]

Oh **** I only scored 121...
Seems to be below average for this forum.
But what's up with this age thing it asks about?

I'm 45 am I less intelligent than a 15 year old person giving the same answers?

The test measure only one very specific type of intelligence, abstract geometrical thinking or something of that sort.

Intelligence can be many things, some biologists consider an animals ability to survive on many kinds of food a kind of intelligence.
This makes intelligence not a brain only thing.

I consider the ability of atoms to interact in different ways with other atoms to also be a kind of intelligence, however a very low level form.

[shantiq]

:D so that test gives me eyeache within seconds


i hate puzzles and that is what they are


if you score 130 on a puzzle test it means you have 130 iq for puzzles

that is all it tests


western culture has such a limited vision of intelligence it makes one want to weep


every iq test i have ever seen test number ability/geometry/ and some usually one quarter word association ability

talk about reductive vision of what intelligence


iq tests are not intelligent or are not designed by people who have an intelligent understanding of intelligence



anyway one should talk of intelligences not intelligence


see myself when i see numbers my brain freezes
when i see words i perk up


geometry puts me to sleep in 2 seconds ( as the test you linked does)

how about emotional intelligence
spatial intelligence
physical intelligence
creative intelligence


please add to the list



those tests insofar as i can see are an insult to intelligence unless you want to see how good you might be at maths and/or computing

thank you for posting this IQ tests need to be discussed

shan ](*,)

[koenn]

Oh **** I only scored 121...
Seems to be below average for this forum.
But what's up with this age thing it asks about?
I'm 45 am I less intelligent than a 15 year old person giving the same answers?

IQ as it is measured nowadays is a relative grading system - your test result is compared to the results of a large group of people more or less your age. the most frequent test result in that group gets a score of 100, and you are graded against that, so a score of 121 means that you are 'more intelligent' than most people in your age group - as shown on the bell curve at the end of the test




The test measure only one very specific type of intelligence, abstract geometrical thinking or something of that sort.

no, it requires you to see relations between the objects and draw a conclusion from that - the ability to see (or invent) relations is a measure of intelligence. They use abstract geometric shapes mainly to rule out 'knowledge' - if they used real-life objects, say computer parts, masonry tools, or engine parts, ... people with knowledge in those fields would always score better, and people without that knowledge would be clueless - that sort of test would be very biased.
Additional benefit is that it requires you to deal with abstract entities (quantities, directions, shapes, transformations...) - which is also considered a measure of intelligence.

[betrunkenaffe]

Fair point, I broke one of the rules which I recently made for myself i.e. never say anything as fact unless it can be backed up with evidence.

No, I don't have any evidence that high iq people are more successful than low iq people, ceteris paribus, it sounds self evident, but it may not be true !

I once read something that stated the on average, people earning X amount per year were of IQ > Y, people earning less than X per year were of IQ < Y. I don't remember the numbers so I won't try to guess. One thing I remember thinking at the time was anyone earning X is likely in a position requiring an education. (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc) As such you would expect them to have a higher IQ score (since education trains you on how to use your mind as well as drive facts into your head).

A study of people across all wage classes and of their IQs would be able to truly answer the question as to whether high iq leads to more success.

It seems to be self-evident but then we'd be ignoring people that just don't care about "getting the most money possible". Some people are just happy with what they have, they won't push for more and settle for it. Doesn't mean their IQ is lower, just means they won't make as much.

[orion1315]

Your IQ means nothing if you dont know how to use it.
Take it from me, scored high on the IQ test, then next year I failed 9th grade, almost.
Have to take summer school.
The dumbest people can become billionaires and the smartest people can live in shacks, its all about effort.

[bodhi.zazen]

IMO the best book on this subject is

The Mismeasure of Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man)

By Stephen Jay Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jay_Gould)

Sorry for the wikipedia link, but better then a commercial link =)

If you are familiar with Stephen Jay Gould you will find this book to be a bit more "technical" the some of his other works, but still a good read.

I think this book should be mandatory reading in school and it does a lot to debunk racism, elitism, sexism, or just about any intolerance-ism.

Other then that, some people will take almost any unique feature (skin, hair, eye color, etc) and claim it makes them superior. :rolleyes:

[bodhi.zazen]

Your IQ means nothing if you dont know how to use it.
Take it from me, scored high on the IQ test, then next year I failed 9th grade, almost.
Have to take summer school.
The dumbest people can become billionaires and the smartest people can live in shacks, its all about effort.

a wise man once told me :

IQ * time = a constant

So people with higher IQ generally learn faster, although there are many measures of IQ and superiority at math does not mean one knows how to spell for example. Other areas of inteligence include music and artistic abilities, often under valued in IQ testing. Then there are languages and well the list goes on and on and on ...

[Redache]

I personally feel IQ tests are redundant. I have a reasonable High IQ (Usually 135+) but that doesn't mean I am any smarter than anybody else and as I have had pointed out to me by friends and family, I can learn things quickly but lack some common sense. I guess I would be classed as "Creative + Analytical" because I can write poetry at a reasonable standard and I have the ability to problem solve quite effectivley. Does it make me intelligent? I don't know.

I've always found that Intelligence doesn't equal respect or being "smart". I've known plenty of people who have high IQ's, did well at School and got straight A's then went to University got asked "Why" instead of shown "How" and burned out. I really don't see the correlation between High IQ and success either. I've seen plenty of burned out minds roaming the streets collecting rubbish, they may be a success at hoarding but they're IQ is redundant as it has rendered them incapable of any social interaction.

A nice little Liner Note, The Average IQ in Britain is 80, according to the BBC's Test the Nation thing they had, seems low doesn't it?.

[Mohamedzv2]

intelligence won't get you to the top, attitude will...

That is a complete lie. I would have showed my rotten attitude to people if I wasn't smart. I simply change the way I behave to comply with what other people.


"mental age divided by physical age multiplied by 100." Thus, if you're 10, but you have the thought capacity of a 13 year old, your IQ would be 130 (10/13 = .13 * 100 = 130)
Er, 13 divided by 10 is 1.3, .13 would be an IQ of 13 :S

[poisonkiller]

But how do you measure mental age? :confused:

[munky99999]

IMO the best book on this subject is

The Mismeasure of Man

By Stephen Jay Gould
I <3 stephen jay gould. Sadly I have never read this book. Or even heard of this until now. I will definately be buying it... not sure when :( I usually wait until i have 3-4 books to order. Then I qualify for free shipping @ amazon.ca lol. I also just ordered a batch last week. So might not be for awhile :(


IQ * time = a constant

So people with higher IQ generally learn faster, although there are many measures of IQ and superiority at math does not mean one knows how to spell for example. Other areas of inteligence include music and artistic abilities, often under valued in IQ testing. Then there are languages and well the list goes on and on and on ...
Oh without a doubt. There are people who are experts at language.. they pick it up quickly... can extrapolate language to determine what an unknown thing might be. I on the otherhand am terrible with language. So if you tested on that... you might find me just barely functioning and those people being geniuses. It doesnt say much to spatial logic and such... where I'm the king and they might not even be able to grasp the 3rd dimension.

[Blacklightbulb]

What's the point of such a thread?

You got the obvious answer repeated 40+ times. IQ isn't as measure your supposed to use. It's used mostly by psychologists and the like. As far as I know no one was ever obstructed from doing something because of their IQ (apart from the Mensa, I say, with their "superior intelligence" they should have figured it by now that playing puzzles won't save the world)

Anyways...

[konqueror7]

@Mohamedzv2
why wouldn't attitude get you to where you want? i mean, with the right attitude, not with a bad character...attitude is how you see things and react to them; when your a pessimistic person, you give up, why not try to be pessimistic and try to just do things to make it work, and just be pessimistic again, just to have it as a motivation for you to improve?

i agree that being smart is better than being intelligent, smartness + attitude + common sense, will beat a genius...

--------------------------------------

ever wondered how "geniuses" and "intelligent" people wear eye glasses when they're overflowing with intelligence yet they don't know how to take care of their eyes? ;)

[Chronon]

ever wondered how "geniuses" and "intelligent" people wear eye glasses when they're overflowing with intelligence yet they don't know how to take care of their eyes?

You're joking, right?

[HermanAB]

So, what did the Little Drummer Boy get on his IQ test?
Drool.

Uhmm, sorry, could not resist it...

[lisati]

side note: if i were really the genius everyone says i am, you'd think i'd figure out a way to stop getting all this spam and junk mail from mensa, wouldn't you?
opt out if possible, and, failing that, use a service like www.spamcop.net or www.abuse.net to report them as spammers.


BTW: the "IQ" is little more than a number with 100 representing "average" - it doesn't really mean much unless you know what the test was measuring.

[konqueror7]

ever wondered how "geniuses" and "intelligent" people wear eye glasses when they're overflowing with intelligence yet they don't know how to take care of their eyes?

You're joking, right?

no, ever wondered why of all the most simple precautions that you could make just to take care of your eyes? give me a reason why they wear it? is it that when your a pair of glasses your labeled as a genius or something, "hey, he has glasses, he must be smart"...;)

[moster]

A guy who finish universaty with 13 years I would say it have above average IQ. Or national champion in chess. Point is, if you have above average, you would not have to really test it. You would know already, otherwise, it is average.

99% of "smart" people are snobs and people tend to avoid them.

[betrunkenaffe]

no, ever wondered why of all the most simple precautions that you could make just to take care of your eyes? give me a reason why they wear it? is it that when your a pair of glasses your labeled as a genius or something, "hey, he has glasses, he must be smart"...;)

You are talking about preconception. People perceive glasses = intelligence. Doesn't mean it's true.

[issih]

no, ever wondered why of all the most simple precautions that you could make just to take care of your eyes? give me a reason why they wear it? is it that when your a pair of glasses your labeled as a genius or something, "hey, he has glasses, he must be smart"...;)

Um...there is nothing you can do to prevent your eyesight getting worse. There are certain things that will damage them, but that will result in loss of sight (e.g. retina damage etc) not the need for glasses. Glasses correct optical abnormalities inherent in the eye. Its mostly a genetic thing and partly an age thing, it has nothing to do with common sense/intelligence or indeed anything else.

People wear glasses in order to see, not out of some wish to be perceived as clever....they are a pain in the **** and I would rather not have to use them, and I'm willing to bet that almost everyone who has to wear them would agree with that.

As for the rest of this thread, intelligence is a difficult thing to pin down, I am someone with a high iq but I am well aware that I can be a total cretin at times. Its an arbitrary measure of some aspects of a brain's functionality...it means no more or less than that.

Intelligence is far more than one thing, and a person is far more than their intelligence.

[konqueror7]

Um...there is nothing you can do to prevent your eyesight getting worse. There are certain things that will damage them, but that will result in loss of sight (e.g. retina damage etc) not the need for glasses. Glasses correct optical abnormalities inherent in the eye. Its mostly a genetic thing and partly an age thing, it has nothing to do with common sense/intelligence or indeed anything else.

People wear glasses in order to see, not out of some wish to be perceived as clever....they are a pain in the **** and I would rather not have to use them, and I'm willing to bet that almost everyone who has to wear them would agree with that.

As for the rest of this thread, intelligence is a difficult thing to pin down, I am someone with a high iq but I am well aware that I can be a total cretin at times. Its an arbitrary measure of some aspects of a brain's functionality...it means no more or less than that.

Intelligence is far more than one thing, and a person is far more than their intelligence.

so you saying that *coincidentally* that most intelligent people are inherited by poor eyesight, and also, i'm not saying that you your eyes will never be damaged...

what i meant with my post, was a stereotypical joke that's meant to be related to this thread, and yes, obviously intelligence doesn't in any way affect the deterioration of your vision...now that's why i question why such simple things such as preventing vision loss can't be done by intelligent persons?...see the joke? :popcorn:

[issih]

It was prevented by an intelligent person....they invented glasses...and laser vision correction (well technically that was at least 2 people, but still).

Oh and there is not one jot of evidence that people who need glasses are or are not more intelligent, its just a random prejudice based on the classic mental image of a nutty professor.

So no, I don't get the joke at all...sorry, either way, as long as you weren't actually being serious, I don't really care :)

[konqueror7]

It was prevented by an intelligent person....they invented glasses...and laser vision correction (well technically that was at least 2 people, but still).

Oh and there is not one jot of evidence that people who need glasses are or are not more intelligent, its just a random prejudice based on the classic mental image of a nutty professor.

So no, I don't get the joke at all...sorry, either way, as long as you weren't actually being serious, I don't really care :)

we don't have the same humor, thats fine with me, "classic mental image of a nutty professor" and this was the image i was talking... and why would i be serious on a joke? thats why its a joke...;)

[magmon]

IQ points show the potential of your brain. People with average IQs can be smart, but cannot have the same intelligence as a person with a "genius" IQ. Really though, its all about how much a person is educated. For example, a person with an average IQ has a masters degree, but their friend has a genius IQ and a highschool deploma. The one with the masters degree will most likely be smarter due to their higher education, but the friend has more potential. I also believe it helps your ability to learn things. I have scored a 144, which is 4 points over genius, and I pretty much absorb everything I hear in class. Also, what I learn, I remember.

I do agree that some people who are smart are snobby about it, but I try to keep the outlook that there will always be someone smarter than me.

[ZarathustraDK]

A couple of remarks:

- An IQ-score cannot be compared across different tests. Different tests operate with different standard deviations. 140 on one test may not mean more intelligent than 120 on another.

- Goulds idea of the X number of intelligence is rubbish. The idea of IQ is to find a number that correlates with a persons mental capacity that can be used practically. Gould just splits up everything into different abilities, which is not the point of IQ. Some students applied Goulds criteria for "what makes an intelligence" and came up with 32+ different kinds of intelligence.

- Intelligent people are not more dysfunctional than any other people. It's just a sour-grapes reaction that seems to perpetuate succesfully.

- Are intelligent people more creative than normal people? They can be, especially if their intelligence is coupled with low latent inhibition. This gives them an advantage in creativity, as low latent inhibition in normal people will lead to psychosis (continued sensory overload is a bad thing if the mind can't process the information fast enough).

- Statistically people around IQ 124 (SD 24) are the most well-earning people in regards to income. Beyond that the IYASTWAYR-effect (If You Are So Smart, Then Why Aren't You Rich?) starts to play a role. People simply start pursuing their idea of happiness directly instead of piling up money in expectance that it might contribute towards their happiness at some point (or so the theory goes).

[megamania]

My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him.

The simple fact that he considers himself a super-genius proves that he is not a genius at all.

[ice60]

I myself never got an IQ test done, my parents would never lend me teh money for it, but I tested over here for 130:
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf
I have no idea about its accuracy or legitimacy.

So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?
i was watching the movie 'the killing room' and for some reason half way through the film ended up doing an IQ test lol. i got 122 on this one -
http://www.highiqsociety.org/

i just did the one you linked and got 112 :(

i might do it again and concentrate a little more to get a higher score, but only if others post their scores too! i think everyone is too chicken to post a screenshot of theirs lol

[KiwiNZ]

The IQ test is relative. results are not constant . The result you receive will vary day to day even hour to hour.

I received a result a number of years ago that placed me in the top 2% , my result was 161 .I would suspect that it would be much lower now due to ill health

[megamania]

i was watching the movie 'the killing room' and for some reason half way through the film ended up doing an IQ test lol. i got 122 on this one -
http://www.highiqsociety.org/

i think everyone is too chicken to post a screenshot of theirs lol
I decided to give it a try and I got 122 on that test.

I just guessed a few questions, because for some of them I just didn't know the answer, while for others I had a language problem (i.e. didn't know the meaning of some words, since english is my second language).

I can assure you I'm no genius, and I can't see what culture (because some questions are about general knowledge) has to do with intelligence...

[frup]

If you go around life thinking you a better than others you will only offend them. You won't learn your true potential either.

On a Facebook IQ test I have scored up to 146 but that doesn't mean anything. (I'd say I'm closer to 120 but IQ doesn't mean a thing)

You need to be humble, listen, observe and learn. Sure you can be really smart but you will never be wise if you think you already know it all.

I work in an environment where nearly every single person I work with is not as intelligent as I, but after being arrogant as I left school, at the age of 23 I have learnt how insightful even a the bottom of society can be.

We all have our strengths an weaknesses. Half of the posts on UF make me groan with their inaccuracies, presumptions and plain mediocrity. I no doubt make others feel the same at times.

If you think you are smart the most important thing to remember is that even the stupidest person will probably know more than you in some area.

You may be good at computers (which in reality doesn't mean that much) but can you *insert anything here*.

The fact is on a daily basis, like I mentioned, I deal with some people of very, very questionable character. Get to know them, talk to them, they will surprise you. I've met people who might score 80 yet are bilingual, are you?

EDIT: This will be riddled with spelling/grammatical errors no doubt, it's 3.20am where I am. I've had about 5 beers since I finished work at 0000hrs, hence why I'm typing about something I normally wouldn't.

[spoons]

Raw brainpower is nothing. If you think you're incredibly smart then you're not intelligent - you're stupid. Some people who may at frist seem to be dumb might have a skill you do not possess. (For example, cooking) If you accept they also have talents they might even teach it to you too.

[JohnFH]

When I was young (read 18-20) I knew it all. I knew what there was to know about life. I couldn't get any smarter. I had it completely sussed.

I must have forgotten it all, because now I think I know nothing.

[winjeel]

Most FaceBook tests and quizzes weren't designed by people who know what they're doing. If you can get 7 out of 8 sex position names, doesn't make you a sexual genius.

The origin of the IQ test goes back over a hundred years ago (before modern psychology really got onto it's feet), and back to Paris. In the Parisian system, they wanted a way to rank children, especially boys, in order of likelihood of future academic success. That's all it is, a ranking system. It's also very culturally bound, too. If I did an IQ test designed for people in the US I'd do badly, but if I did a more international one, I'd probably do very well, especially if there are more concepts involving language and cultural variation. It really depends on who's designing it. So, what is the difference between the IQ tests that there are and the high school tests? Fundamentally, nothing, except who designs them.

An alternative theory, that is worth looking into is Multiple Intelligences. The essential idea is that we are different, and have our variable strengths and weaknesses, and that we cannot be compared onto a single ranking system like the IQ system does. Take the test here (http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks3/ict/multiple_int/index.htm), and then check it out on Wikipedia. It's really, really worth checking out. :D

[hobo14]

According to my first year (2007) Psychology professor, who's area of expertise is IQ and Intelligence testing,
IQ is not intelligence, it's just the best measure of intelligence we have at the moment.
It's not terribly good or accurate, but there's nothing better.

And online IQ tests are a complete and utter waste of time, results should be thrown in the bin, not read.

[Tristam Green]

And online IQ tests are a complete and utter waste of time, results should be thrown in the bin, not read.

Isn't that the truth.

I took an IQ test administered by a psychologist when I was 14. I scored a 140, and I had a migraine that day.

I do some seriously stupid things from time to time.

IQ is not equal to your all-encompassed intelligence, just really a measure of your logical and analytical thinking skills.

Intelligence includes common sense, memory (I have a great long-term memory, but the short term is junk), "street-smarts", "book-smarts", analytical thinking, logical thinking, and calculation; though I'm sure there's much more it includes as well. Nothing can effectively measure all of it.

[hobo14]

Isn't that the truth.

I took an IQ test administered by a psychologist when I was 14. I scored a 140, and I had a migraine that day.

I do some seriously stupid things from time to time.

IQ is not equal to your all-encompassed intelligence, just really a measure of your logical and analytical thinking skills.

Intelligence includes common sense, memory (I have a great long-term memory, but the short term is junk), "street-smarts", "book-smarts", analytical thinking, logical thinking, and calculation; though I'm sure there's much more it includes as well. Nothing can effectively measure all of it.
I think you missed the "online" in my last post Tristam. Properly administered IQ tests are quite good (of course, there's no guarantee that your test was properly administered either)

[lisati]

As I understand it, a properly conducted IQ test results in a score that is relative and that can depend on who else has taken the test.


When I was young (read 18-20) I knew it all. I knew what there was to know about life. I couldn't get any smarter. I had it completely sussed.

I must have forgotten it all, because now I think I know nothing.

When I was a teenager, it seemed as if I knew more than my parents. A few years later, when the realities of life kicked in, it was surprising how much my parents had learned in the intervening years.

[chessnerd]

IQ only measures intelligence. It does not take into account knowledge or understanding or wisdom which all factor into a person being smart. A person who has a high IQ isn't necessarily smarter than anyone else. Case and point: I have a friend who claims to have an IQ of 146, my IQ is 128. I graduated high school with a 3.6 GPA and he graduated with a 2.5 GPA. Guess which of us is attending a community college?

To say that your IQ means you are smarter than someone else is simply arrogant. I could argue that my higher GPA makes me smarter than my friend, but I don't because I know that GPA isn't really a measure of how smart you are, it's a measure of how good at school you are. IQ doesn't measure smartness, it measures intelligence which is one part of being a smart person.

[luisito]

I can't cook anything behond a plate of pasta. I can't dance because I don't hear the beat in any kind of music. With my eyes closed, I don't distinguish white from red wine. I don't think I'm bad looking but I find it very difficult to pick up a girl in a bar. I'm not very sensitive and I have trouble reading people's behavior. I would certainly get lost in the city if I don't carry my GPS around. I often have trouble understanding movies. I don't know how to swim. I can't play any instrument. I'm a terrible poker player. I don't know how to make coffee. There is no picture hanging on the walls in my apartment. I don't know how to combine colors when I dress.

Guess what? My IQ is sky high! I always score above 150 in every test. I took the GRE when there was a logic section and I got full score (99% percentil).

Well, I'm good in math though. I'm a decent chess player. And I can't complain about my job.

I'm not joking.

[MikeTheC]

Der duh duuuuuuuh der duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

[t0p]

Beyond that the IYASTWAYR-effect (If You Are So Smart, Then Why Aren't You Rich?) starts to play a role.

How come your 9-letter initialism stands for a sentence of 10 words? Sign of low intelligence perhaps? Or just a mistake?

If I "just make a mistake" during an IQ test and end up with a lower score, does that make me less intelligent than I would have been if I hadn't made the mistake? (By "mistake" I mean something like mis-reading, not a mistake of logic or mistake of arithmetic)

Incidentally, I have believed for a long time that IQ tests do not measure intelligence. Why? Because if you practice taking IQ tests, your score increases. Does anyone really think that practicing IQ tests actually makes you more intelligent? I realize that's the premise on which all those "brain training" games are based... but surely we all know what a crock that is?

[WatchingThePain]

Hi,

IMHO I think like you said, IQ is a measure (crude perhaps sometimes) of some aspects of it.
There are a lot of factors to consider in attempting to measure something like that.
I think if someones good at IQ tests it doesn't make the "elite", it just means they are good at IQ tests.

If we took a sample of people considered Genius from history and gave them all an IQ test I'm sure the results would be surprising.

The formulation of the test is also an issue as some end up being biased.
I think overall the tests can be useful but they should not be used solely to categorize a persons ability.

[insane_alien]

It has been my experience that IQ tests count for precicely zilch.

i have seen people who have scored over 120 on a proper IQ test(not one of the crappy internet ones) although is infact as thick as 2 month old school custard.

and i have seen the opposite, some one who according to the IQ tests is clinically retarded but if you met him you would think he's way above average in the intellectual scale.

of course, these people may just be exceptions, but it does call into question of what exactly does an IQ test measure because we haven't even been able to come up with a coherent and absolute scientific definition of intelligence yet. it is mostly just a 'we're not quite sure yet'.

that said though, the IQ tests are the closest thing we have to a standardized measure so we're stuck with them until we devise something better. they are far from a perfect solution but they are better than no solution at all.

[Tristam Green]

I think you missed the "online" in my last post Tristam. Properly administered IQ tests are quite good (of course, there's no guarantee that your test was properly administered either)

Perhaps I didn't place enough spaces in between my agreement with you that (online) IQ tests need to be thrown out the window, and my anecdote about my own IQ test when I was younger.

I wasn't saying that mine needed to be filed in circular, but rather that I'm curious what I would have scored had I not been in a good amount of pain (this was prior to my being diagnosed with migraines).

[koshatnik]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.

However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence, or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others. Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ? I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?

I myself never got an IQ test done, my parents would never lend me teh money for it, but I tested over here for 130:
http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf
I have no idea about its accuracy or legitimacy.

So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?

Anyone can be intelligent. Just educate yourself. Anyone can raise their IQ, just practice the tests that test those aspects of your brain.

Wisdom however comes with experience and age. What's important is the blend, not the quantity.

[Tristam Green]

Anyone can be intelligent. Just educate yourself. Anyone can raise their IQ, just practice the tests that test those aspects of your brain.

Wisdom however comes with experience and age. What's important is the blend, not the quantity.

Best summation in the thread, hands down.

There's a marked difference in knowledge and wisdom, that's for certain.

[hobo14]

As I understand it, a properly conducted IQ test results in a score that is relative and that can depend on who else has taken the test.
Yes it's relative, but doesn't matter who else takes the test, or whether you take it before of after your genius neighbour.

The benchmarks/tests are updated as often as money allows, so that the average of current society is exactly 100.

[WatchingThePain]

Anyone can be intelligent. Just educate yourself. Anyone can raise their IQ, just practice the tests that test those aspects of your brain.

Wisdom however comes with experience and age. What's important is the blend, not the quantity.

Agreed. Don't underestimate the Human Brain. It's just training and experience. People who use mental arithmetic everyday at work will be good at it because they have to be. I heard that Humans only use a fraction of the Brains potential at this stage in our so called evolution. As well people tend to disengage in things that don't interest them. The old cliche 'Math's is boring'.

[hobo14]

Anyone can be intelligent. Just educate yourself. Anyone can raise their IQ, just practice the tests that test those aspects of your brain.

Wisdom however comes with experience and age. What's important is the blend, not the quantity.

Doesn't work like that, unfortunately. If it did, older people would be score higher on IQ tests when compared to young people, but in fact your IQ goes down as you age (although you won't see this in the scores you receive, because benchmarks are also categorized by age, and you will only ever be scored on the 100=average for your age)

EDIT: Perhaps I shouldn't have said IQ goes down - your IQ stays the same (within it's accuracy margins), but the abilities/functions it measures decline with age.

[ksennin]

Isaac Asimov, who was a child prodigy, and wrote extensively on numerous scientific and popular subjects, did not set much store on such tests. He
reported in his autobiography that his tests when joining the army were the highest they had ever recorded, and he was very vain about his intelligence yet he confessed his many limitations regarding common sense and some practical subjects. He wrote an essay on the subject, saying that yes, such tests do give a measure of some aspects of intelligence and the ability to use certain knowledge, but it can become an oversimplification, and limited by the preconceptions of the test's designers. He discussed how a high education was measured in different ways in the past, all according to what was in vogue at the time in the local intelligentsia. For example, at a time, an engineer would be considered little more than a machinist, while truly educated people would focus on philosophy and dead tongues. The essay can be found in his GOLD collection.

[Exodist]

I haven't seen an IQ test yet that measures what we call "common sense"......
^^^ THIS ^^^

LOL It doesnt matter if someone can bash thru a rubix cube in less then 30secs or 30 years. If someone lacks the common sense to not **** in the direction the wind is blowing from then they fail.

To be honest tho a humans mental overall is based on 3 aspecs not just IQ.
1) IQ = Capacity to process puzzles and work around obstacles. (basic mechanics skills)
2) Common Sense = Capacity to comprehend a understanding of a situation based on a plausible outcome.
3) Knowledge = Information gathered over time. (book smarts, street smarts, etc..)

Those 3 make or break a person.

[koshatnik]

Doesn't work like that, unfortunately. If it did, older people would be score higher on IQ tests when compared to young people, but in fact your IQ goes down as you age (although you won't see this in the scores you receive, because benchmarks are also categorized by age, and you will only ever be scored on the 100=average for your age)

EDIT: Perhaps I shouldn't have said IQ goes down - your IQ stays the same (within it's accuracy margins), but the abilities/functions it measures decline with age.

Wisdom increases with experience. Its horses for courses.

For example: I'd take an experienced person over a well qualified but no experience person for a job any day of the year. Conversely, if I was conducting research where an intimate and detailed technical knowledge was required, I'd vice versa the above. If I needed someone to project manage that technical piece of work, I'd look for a mix of both.

Intelligence cannot be quantified or defined by IQ or any single method. Its a mix of wisdom, experience, knowledge, wit and craft.

Go hire the best business consultant from yellow pages - my guess is he wont be aged 18-25 years old. He'll be most likely 55-65, and have 40+ years industry experience.

IQ is meaningless.

[jqke]

Ultimately, IQ is BS. I have friends that have taken the test as well, some of them numerous times as guinea pigs. The disparity between their results is sometimes huge. One friend took two tests with his psych, two months apart, and within that two month period it dropped thirty points.

He was not under the influence and he did not fall down any stairs, it's just the tests he took. That example took MENSA and kicked its **** off a cliff, in my opinion.

[hobo14]

Wisdom increases with experience. Its horses for courses.

For example: I'd take an experienced person over a well qualified but no experience person for a job any day of the year. Conversely, if I was conducting research where an intimate and detailed technical knowledge was required, I'd vice versa the above. If I needed someone to project manage that technical piece of work, I'd look for a mix of both.

Intelligence cannot be quantified or defined by IQ or any single method. Its a mix of wisdom, experience, knowledge, wit and craft.

Go hire the best business consultant from yellow pages - my guess is he wont be aged 18-25 years old. He'll be most likely 55-65, and have 40+ years industry experience.

IQ is meaningless.

Wisdom is not intelligence, not measured by IQ, and not the topic of this thread.

Can I go out on a limb here and guess you are closer to 55 than you are to 25 years old, koshatnik? There's no need to feel threatened/offended by someone pointing out that some mental functions decline with age, it happens to all of us.

EDIT: Intelligence can be quantified by IQ, (although certainly not perfectly) that's exactly what IQ is designed to do. Your definition of intelligence is not the definition used by academics who research intelligence.

IQ may be meaningless to you, but it's an extremely valuable tool for many people and industries.

[Mateo]

Isn't there a guy in Iceland who has an IQ in the 190s and works as a janitor? Anyways, mine is 155, I'm not ashamed to say.

[razorboy5]

well u feel hella good when u get a high IQ on ur test no matter how "un-legit" the test was

got 149 and bragged for at least a few months (although it was a test on the web for free and probably not very legit)

also about the music thing i heard playing music greatly increases memory since musicians have to memorize long pieces of music. Especially playing like classical music that has many variations and pieces which are hard to remember

[Chronon]

IQ can be quantified by IQ, (although certainly not perfectly) that's exactly what IQ is designed to do.

Uh. .. IQ is IQ. However, it's kind of a meaningless tautology, I think.

Similarly, IQ is not a measure of intelligence unless you define intelligence to be that which is measured by IQ tests. There is not a unique well-defined notion of intelligence.

IQ tests were invented to diagnose mental or learning disabilities, not to calibrate the intelligence of the majority of the population. It wasn't invented to provide a linear metric for intelligence. It was meant to provide a bar below which someone could be considered to have some sort of disability.

[koshatnik]

Wisdom is not intelligence, not measured by IQ, and not the topic of this thread.

I disagree. Intelligence is made up of many things, not just IQ.


Can I go out on a limb here and guess you are closer to 55 than you are to 25 years old, koshatnik? There's no need to feel threatened/offended by someone pointing out that some mental functions decline with age, it happens to all of us.


I'm 38. And as I've got older, I've got more intelligent.



IQ can be quantified by IQ, (although certainly not perfectly) that's exactly what IQ is designed to do. Your definition of intelligence is not the definition used by academics who research intelligence.


And? My definition differs from theirs. So what? It's certainly open to challenge. Are academics not allowed to be challenged? My wife has an IQ of 158. I have an IQ of 120. My wife has trouble spelling simple words, yet can understand and speak ancient greek and latin. Intelligence is a human beings capacity to learn, retain information and apply learning to a given process. Intelligence is also imagination and creativity. Einstein maintained that the imagination is the most important thing a human being possesses. And he's right, because without it, there would be no scientific advancement. So where does imagination fit into IQ?

IQ is meaningless.


IQ may be meaningless to you, but it's an extremely valuable tool for many people and industries.

Its also a hugely commercial business, with lots of people making lots of money from selling IQ tool kits and promoting the idea that its important. I've yet to come across a single incident or moment in my life where IQ has mattered.

And thats speaking from experience. :)

[handy]

I was lucky, I was born with both! :)

[drooze]

IQ tests alot of things. Some things you'll be good at, other things you aren't. The final IQ number will combine everything in one easy to comprehend number. Is it wrong? no. Is it a good representation for how smart somebody is? Not really.

Say, you're really good at maths, but absolutely suck at everything else, you'll still have quite a low IQ, lower than someone who is just mediocre at everything.
Some geniuses can solve the most impossible math problems, but can barely wipe themselves. Are they stupid? brilliant?

One thing I learned that having a high IQ will not save you from being a jackass...

[jespdj]

IQ is not an absolute number that tells you exactly how intelligent someone is.

There are lots of people who have a high IQ but who are really stupid in some aspects - like your friend, who's being arrogant because he is stupid enough to believe that his IQ makes him better than others.

Wikipedia has a long article on intelligence quotient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient).

[hobo14]

Uh. .. IQ is IQ. However, it's kind of a meaningless tautology, I think.

Similarly, IQ is not a measure of intelligence unless you define intelligence to be that which is measured by IQ tests. There is not a unique well-defined notion of intelligence.

IQ tests were invented to diagnose mental or learning disabilities, not to calibrate the intelligence of the majority of the population. It wasn't invented to provide a linear metric for intelligence. It was meant to provide a bar below which someone could be considered to have some sort of disability.

! sorry, "Intelligence can be quantified by IQ..." ;)

It's not necessary to redefine intelligence to be that which is measured by IQ, because IQ is already defined to be that which measures intelligence.
But no, intelligence is not easy to define.

IQ tests are designed to measure intelligence. They were first used ("invented") to identify children that would need remedial help in the French school system due to learning difficulties.

[hobo14]

I disagree. Intelligence is made up of many things, not just IQ.
You seem to have a little trouble grasping the concept of what IQ actually is. Intelligence is not made up of IQ, IQ is not an innate part of human psyche, it is nothing more than a man-made measurement of intelligence.




I'm 38. And as I've got older, I've got more intelligent.
It is no doubt comforting to believe that, but it is not correct. Your knowledge has increased, you have become wiser, you have gained skills, but you have become less intelligent.




And? My definition differs from theirs. So what? It's certainly open to challenge. Are academics not allowed to be challenged? My wife has an IQ of 158. I have an IQ of 120. My wife has trouble spelling simple words, yet can understand and speak ancient greek and latin. Intelligence is a human beings capacity to learn, retain information and apply learning to a given process. Intelligence is also imagination and creativity. Einstein maintained that the imagination is the most important thing a human being possesses. And he's right, because without it, there would be no scientific advancement. So where does imagination fit into IQ?

IQ is meaningless.
Well I can't argue with that; if you want to apply your own personal definition of intelligence, you can validate or invalidate any test you like.




Its also a hugely commercial business, with lots of people making lots of money from selling IQ tool kits and promoting the idea that its important. I've yet to come across a single incident or moment in my life where IQ has mattered.

And thats speaking from experience. :)
Yes, IQ tests cost quite a lot to make, and are sold.

IQ doesn't matter. Intelligence does, although not many people need to know how intelligent they are.

[koshatnik]

It is no doubt comforting to believe that, but it is not correct. Your knowledge has increased, you have become wiser, you have gained skills, but you have become less intelligent.


By your criteria, not by mine. QED.

[hobo14]

By your criteria, not by mine. QED.

Interesting use of "QED"...


"Intelligence" has a specific meaning by general consensus.
When there is any confusion over the meaning, the default should be the one used by people who best understand the concept: academics who spend their lives researching intelligence.

The purpose ("definition", if you like) of "IQ" is to measure "intelligence".
Regardless of what you personally decide "IQ" or "intelligence" should mean, this is what they will continue to be.

I could tell you I eat "frying pans" for dinner every night, if I decide that "frying pan" means a common root vegetable of yellowish colour about the size of an apple. No amount of logical argument could persuade me otherwise if I refused to accept the true English meaning of "frying pan".

[Elodean]

An IQ test really only measures how good you are at doing IQ tests. It is not definitive. For instance: one person may be very, very, intelligible when it comes to computers and be able to write professional software by himself/herself in C, C++, Java, Eiffel, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc..., but if computers are not covered on the IQ test, they may not do very well even though they are actually very intelligent.

[ksennin]

As mentioned, IQ is supposed to be a measure of the aspects of intelligence that can be measured (not that they may be all-including), but the question is more properly stated as "how well do the IQ tests work at doing such measuring?"

[Chronon]

! sorry, "Intelligence can be quantified by IQ..." ;)

It's not necessary to redefine intelligence to be that which is measured by IQ, because IQ is already defined to be that which measures intelligence.
But no, intelligence is not easy to define.

IQ tests are designed to measure intelligence. They were first used ("invented") to identify children that would need remedial help in the French school system due to learning difficulties.

I would say they were designed to partition the population into two groups, those who need remedial help and those who don't. It's a huge generalization (an unjustified one as far as I can see) to then suggest that this test provides a linear scale for measuring intelligence -- something that nobody can uniquely define. If you can't define intelligence then claiming that IQ provides a measure for it is meaningless.

Without a well-posed definition for what intelligence is, I sense a circular argument hiding in claims that IQ is a measure for it.

[samjh]

I have been having IQ in my mind for quite a while, and I read about it somewhere in this forum today as well. My friend drives me crazy, apparently he tested his IQ in the 9th grade, and got a score of 143, since then he has believed that he is a super genius and everyone around him are beneath him. Both of us are in the first year of college now.IQ changes with age. Generally, it gets lower as a person gets older. Just because your friend had an IQ of 143 in 9th grade, doesn't mean he still has that same IQ.

Also, different IQ scales exist.


However, I have been wondering, does IQ equate to intelligence, or is it only a measure of some aspects of it? My friend is undoubtedly really good at somethings with his mind, but really crappy at others. Do talented artists and musicians also have a really high IQ? I ask this because I have noticed people conjure up an image of Einstein or Newton, or a brain surgeon or something of the sort in their head when asked to think of a person with a really high IQ. What does a standard IQ test aim to measure anyway?IQ tests measure a variety of things, usually related to one's reasoning ability.

In my experience, people with high IQ tend to be genuinely smart. The difference is their application. I've come across high IQ people in menial jobs, and high IQ people in professional positions. They are all very intelligent in their own way. Almost all of them possess high degree of mental adaptability (ie. able to extrapolate their knowledge and experience to solve previously unseen problems) and logic.


So what are your thoughts on IQ? Ever got a proper non-internet test done?Last time I had a formal IQ test was in grade 2 or 3. My score was 134.

These days I get anywhere between 105 to 125 using Internet tests. (Most Internet tests are garbage though. I got like 160 in one, which is clearly wrong.)


An IQ test really only measures how good you are at doing IQ tests. It is not definitive. For instance: one person may be very, very, intelligible when it comes to computers and be able to write professional software by himself/herself in C, C++, Java, Eiffel, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc..., but if computers are not covered on the IQ test, they may not do very well even though they are actually very intelligent.
IQ tests are designed to measure general intelligence, not intelligence in specific problem domains.

Most IQ tests I've seen include some mathematical pattern matching, spatial processing, and symbolic problem-solving. Anyone with primary-school maths and general knowledge should be able to do them.