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hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:08 PM
Hi, I want to hear your input about this.

I want to know if a comment like this: the store owner is an arab. is that racist comment?

I just want to know. I looked up the definition of racism. It states that racisim or a racist comment is a comment that you make. This comment tells your opinon about a race. It usally means that that your opinion about that race is based on hatred. You hate that race so you make comments saying they shouldn't have human rights or equal rights to your race. Cause your race is better.

That is what I got out of a racist comment. It's a comment that is negative about a race based your just your hatred and not facts.

Well the comment the store owner is arab. It was used to describe the store owner.

I said this comment in a board fourm. I was describing the owner that owned a gas station. I gave him a 20 and he gave me 10 bucks worth of gas.

I done a rip off report and now being called racist. for saying that the store owner is a arab.

I don't think it's a racist comment. I seen on local news where FBI most wanted they describe the person is black or the guy that stole certain amount of money was arab and they usually tell the height and weight of the person as description.

I then told a story where a auto part store recommended me to use this gas station for auto repairs.

the people made comments why I didn't say the race of the store employees meaning It was proof I was being racist to arabs.

I just want your opinion. I personally think this is just a way to be descriptive. If the owner was american. I would say the owner is american.

I know the FBI uses this also. I seen on local television on fbi most wanted they did say the guy is arab, weaights such and such and likes business or something. They do use arab or race in the description but dosen't mean they are racist. They don't deny arabs of rights.

I just want your input. I asked many people and they agreed with me.

dragos240
July 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
The Community Chat area is for lighthearted and enjoyable discussions, like you might find around a water cooler at work.

Almost any non-tech-support topic may be discussed here. Discussions on religion and politics are not allowed,

This will be closed fast.

hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:11 PM
I am not talking about religion nor politics.

where would this subject go? like what forums?

I am asking for people opinions. It's general talk.

Elfy
July 22nd, 2009, 09:14 PM
Good - let's keep it that way and let's make sure that also it is respectful of all users at all times.

Tipped OuT
July 22nd, 2009, 09:18 PM
I think this will be moved to the Forum Feed Back section.

EDIT: Never mind, it's about another Forum. Thank God, I was going to say these forums are getting out of hand.

starcannon
July 22nd, 2009, 09:22 PM
I think it comes down to implied meaning and perspective.

When using racial descriptors it is important that one is understood, that is all that the words are being used for, objective descriptors. In today's world it is important that one is not perceived even mistakenly as using a racial descriptor in a non-objective manner; in some situations its even taboo to discuss the gifts associated with a particular genetic heritage.

My advice, avoid racial descriptors if there is another equally useful and respectful way to describe a person or event.

GL and HF thats just my .02

hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:22 PM
That's how I plan and hope it keeps this way.

I am trying to educate myself. I want to know if I did make a racist comment or not.

This is a educational discussing. I did checked wikipedia about definition of racism.

Just would like to know if I did anything wrong so I can correct myself.

CJ Master
July 22nd, 2009, 09:26 PM
Don't worry about it. There'll be people that are very, very easily offended. Appologise, say that you didn't mean it as a racist comment and be on your way.

Tipped OuT
July 22nd, 2009, 09:26 PM
I say just write a disclaimer. Like I did when I posted my screen shot today that contained a song title with a racial word.

EDIT: CJ Master was too fast for me. >.<

Rainstride
July 22nd, 2009, 09:28 PM
Hi, I want to hear your input about this.

I want to know if a comment like this: the store owner is an arab. is that racist comment?


no it is not racism.

swoll1980
July 22nd, 2009, 09:32 PM
If you say it like "A" rab it's raciest.

Elfy
July 22nd, 2009, 09:32 PM
no it is not racism.

If the implication in the post in the forum was that the OP was defrauded because of the race - then it is racism in my opinion.

As we don't know that then we can't make any meaningful comments.

hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:33 PM
I did say that I didn't mean it in a racial way.

but I am right now being investigated to be banned from the website.

Some people said they hope that I get sued for it. They then made fun of my education. Saying I need to go back to elementary school.

Thanks for the inputs. I just was surprised that this happened. I know the FBI uses the same type of comment. They did it with a Detroit Lebanese that didn't pay his taxes.He sent money back to Lebanon to hezbola . Sorry for the name spelling of that guy. The Detroit FBI sayed on local news that the lasheesh Lebanese store owner.

So I will follow your advice.

CJ Master
July 22nd, 2009, 09:35 PM
I did say that I didn't mean it in a racial way.

but I am right now being investigated to be banned from the website.

Some people said they hope that I get sued for it. They then made fun of my education. Saying I need to go back to elementary school.

Thanks for the inputs. I just was surprised that this happened. I know the FBI uses the same type of comment. They did it with a Detroit Lebanese that didn't pay his taxes.He sent money back to Lebanon to hezbola . Sorry for the name spelling of that guy. The Detroit FBI sayed on local news that the lasheesh Lebanese store owner.

So I will follow your advice.

In your case I'd just leave the site. If people there can't act like adults then just leave the site alone.

Sxeptomaniac
July 22nd, 2009, 09:36 PM
I don't know about racist, but I can see how some might be bothered by it. "Arab" is often erroneously used synonymously with "Middle Eastern" or "semitic." Unfortunately, there are other Ethnic groups in the Middle East that are not Arabic, and may resent the assumption. A good example are Persians, Sikhs, or some of the other Turkic peoples (Sikhs may not even qualify as Middle Eastern, but their religion-mandated turbans lead to false assumptions on others' parts)

Some might consider it "political correctness," to be careful, but I just think it's more polite to recognize that there is an awful lot of ethnic variety in the world; more so than many seem to realize.

koenn
July 22nd, 2009, 09:37 PM
That's how I plan and hope it keeps this way.

I am trying to educate myself. I want to know if I did make a racist comment or not.

This is a educational discussing. I did checked wikipedia about definition of racism.

Just would like to know if I did anything wrong so I can correct myself.
it depends a lot on tone and context.

You may also ask yourself whether the race of the person in question is relevant to the story you're telling.
Try this for size :
You got ripped of at a gas station. Is the race, color, shoe size, height, ... of the guy relevant to the story ? If not, why did you mention it ?

doas777
July 22nd, 2009, 09:39 PM
any statement that makes a reference to race or culture, is technically 'racist', even if it is wholey unoffensive. the reason this seems odd is that people cast the term 'racist' with a negative connotation, even though it may not be offensive. demographic statics on home ownership or bus ridership or anything else that are divided based on ethnicity, are racist, but they are not based on hate, anger, or any of the other negative things we associate with the word.

disclaimer: these thoughts are about semantics and definitions exclusively.

"If you can't say what you mean, then you can't mean what you say".

starcannon
July 22nd, 2009, 09:40 PM
it depends a lot on tone and context.

You may also ask yourself whether the race of the person in question is relevant to the story you're telling.
Try this for size :
You got ripped of at a gas station. Is the race, color, shoe size, height, ... of the guy relevant to the story ? If not, why did you mention it ?

Exactly, and tone is a great point; it is much easier to let people know using voice tone, and body language what your intended meaning is, and you just don't have that luxury on the internet. Best bet, use racial descriptors with discretion when using them in text.

GL

lisati
July 22nd, 2009, 09:42 PM
Opinion: I'd say that the way in which a person's ethnicity is identified and the manner in which it is said (which can be hard to convey merely through typing) makes a difference. There are some things which you can probably say to friends and people you know reasonably well that you wouldn't get away with in other circumstances. Potential can of worms?

starcannon
July 22nd, 2009, 09:45 PM
any statement that makes a reference to race or culture, is technically 'racist', even if it is wholey unoffensive. the reason this seems odd is that people cast the term 'racist' with a negative connotation, even though it may not be offensive. demographic statics on home ownership or bus ridership or anything else that are divided based on ethnicity, are racist, but they are not based on hate, anger, or any of the other negative things we associate with the word.

disclaimer: these thoughts are about semantics and definitions exclusively.

"If you can't say what you mean, then you can't mean what you say".

I agree with you to a degree, though communication is almost always much more dynamic than just the spoken or written word; words are just a part of a communication, and not even the most important part in my opinion. Much can be understood from intonation, body language, volume, etc... when speaking. When writing, much can be understood from spelling, grammar, and general structure and form; and often times, especially in text, too much can be made of these things. Text is a much more difficult medium to get ones intended meaning across with, especially if one does not have a particularly good vocabulary to begin with.

moster
July 22nd, 2009, 09:46 PM
it depends a lot on tone and context.

You may also ask yourself whether the race of the person in question is relevant to the story you're telling.
Try this for size :
You got ripped of at a gas station. Is the race, color, shoe size, height, ... of the guy relevant to the story ? If not, why did you mention it ?

If swede and turk/arap are both same "white" then police will find him like never :)

Cyked
July 22nd, 2009, 09:46 PM
If you say something like "the store owner is a nice black/white/arab/scottish/chinese/middle eastern guy, who I have talk to on several occasions....." you are probably less likely to having anything come of it than saying "the store owner is a black/white/arab/scottish/chinese/middle eastern guy". Unless of course the person reading is looking to start a fight regardless of intent.

As Rainstride said, the phrase itself is not racist. The context in which it is used is what will determine so.

hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:48 PM
If you say it like "A" rab it's raciest.

This was online. I didn't write it like A rab or something like that.


I just said the store owner is arab. I have arabic friends. I called them arab and they don't look at it as racist.

I gave a 20 and he gave me 10 bucks worth of gas. I posted the story about it. I then said " the store owner is arab." In the area their is 2 other gas stations at the same intercestion where the store owners are Iraqi. Their is 3 gas stations in total one store owner is arab and the other 2 is iraqi. I said store owner is arab because in the local area we can tell the difference between Iraqis and arab people. I didn't implay that all arabs own gas stations and rip off people.

if the store owner was american. I would of said the store owner is american.

the local news does this alot when they invigorate. fox news have a team called problem solvers. They investigate businesses that do fraud. I have seen them say the arab store owner on 11 mile etc then they would say his name and then tell the story of what happened to someone. They done stories of all race. It's no just one. They would say their race.

It's more to describe the person. FBI does it also.


Forestpixie: do you mean that the comment could sound like I am implying that all arabs have gas stations and do crooked business?

I could understand how that could be possible. I didn't mean to imply that. Wouldn't that be called racial profiling? Not racism?

Racial profiling to my understanding is making statements like such and such race does this and that.Basically I think racial profiling is just making comments about a race saying that the race does this and deals like that alwasy. Usally a negative comment about a race based on race.

I thought racisim or racist comments is a comment that is a so call hate comment. You make a nagative comment or statement because you hate that race for some reason.

I am trying to figure out what I done wrong and want to correct it. I want to avoid to offend anyone in the future. So I guess it's best to educate myself then do nothing about it.

chriskin
July 22nd, 2009, 09:52 PM
you should be careful when talking about someones ethnicity, after all, why did you mention it?
Around here, most people have a problem with immigrants from Albania , Romania , Pakistan etc, i have never managed to understand why this is the case. I always saw men and women, not Greeks, Albanians etc. Pointing out someones ethnicity means that you have already considered that it matters , something that by definition is at least a form or racism

edit : please stop saying at every post that the fbi does this also, meaning that it proves that it is not racism - there is always racism in the law enforcement , i have seen it in more than 7 countries already

Elfy
July 22nd, 2009, 09:52 PM
Forestpixie: do you mean that the comment could sound like I am implying that all arabs have gas stations and do crooked business?

I could understand how that could be possible. I didn't mean to imply that.This is the problem when people can't read body language in a medium such as text.

You keep saying that the FBI do it - so? That doesn't make it right.

There will always be people who do their utmost to cause arguments - better not to give them the opportunity in the first place.

moster
July 22nd, 2009, 09:53 PM
Well, I know it is little difficult to use all good epitets when you was ROBBED :D

Like your girlfriend. She is nice and sweet until she DUMP you. Then she become crazy bi*ch! Oh, all preachers are around this forum and in same situation 99% of them would react in same way. I've seen this more then once.

Rainstride
July 22nd, 2009, 09:54 PM
If the implication in the post in the forum was that the OP was defrauded because of the race - then it is racism in my opinion.

As we don't know that then we can't make any meaningful comments.

true, but it sounds more like a descriptive statement that anything.

if i walk down the street and a white guy robs me i would say "i got robbed by some white guy" if it was a black guy i would say "i got robbed by some black guy" because im describing who robbed me. the problem though, is people see and hear what they want to hear. if there looking for racism everywhere then thats what they see, even when its not there.

so the way i see it people need to chill the **** out. and unless you hear something plain as day, don't assume the context.

hockey97
July 22nd, 2009, 09:56 PM
If you say something like "the store owner is a nice black/white/arab/scottish/chinese/middle eastern guy, who I have talk to on several occasions....." you are probably less likely to having anything come of it than saying "the store owner is a black/white/arab/scottish/chinese/middle eastern guy". Unless of course the person reading is looking to start a fight regardless of intent.

As Rainstride said, the phrase itself is not racist. The context in which it is used is what will determine so.

Thanks for your comment. I now understand fully. My statement is not racist by itself but it's how that statement blends with the overall talk.

so when I said the store owner is arab. People can take it anyway they want.


Thanks for the comment. I understand now. I did apologize about it. The problem is they didn't accept it.

I also just got a e-mail from the webmaster. The said that they are reporting me to my ISP. So I might not get Internet service.

I do recall my ISP policies is that I can't hack,flood,scam, or any illegal activities according to U.S law and make racial or bullying over the internet will terminate my services.

Thats in my providers policy.

Well Thanks for the inputs. Thank for taking the time to give your thoughts on it. It made me feel better.

I will just flat out try to stop using that way to describe people.

The problem is that it's a habait that I got from my local area.

Everyone here in my area talks just like that.

Thanks for your time.

Cyked
July 22nd, 2009, 09:56 PM
if the store owner was american. I would of said the store owner is american.

If so, then why mention it at all? If you default to pointing out ethnicity or where someone is from just to point it out, what is the point?

Irihapeti
July 22nd, 2009, 09:56 PM
The way I see it, the person's race has nothing to do with it in this case. The story makes just as much sense if you leave the racial detail out. Anyone can rip you off!

I was told off once by my son for bringing the topic of race into a conversation. I'd been intimidated by a large man for a stupid thing I did while driving. The race/skin colour of the man wasn't relevant. The size definitely was.

If I was talking about a conversation where someone was having difficulty speaking English, that might be a different story.

Rocket2DMn
July 22nd, 2009, 10:00 PM
This thread has started to degrade, so I'm closing it. I think the OP has more than enough feedback on his question, and this subject isn't really a good topic for the Cafe.