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sinaisix
July 18th, 2009, 02:57 PM
i am just wondering how Africa can use FOSS to its benefit given how the continent lags behind in terms of IT.i wonder what you nice folks think.

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 04:16 PM
OLPC (http://laptop.org/) is designed to take care of stuff like this. It runs on a modified version of Red Hat, which has a kid-friendly interface (made in python) that is designed to be used by people of any language, and even if they're not too literate.

North African countries are beginning to get quite involved in FOSS. There was a very active Linux commnity in Alexandria (Egypt) when I was there earlier this year. They have regular installfests at univerities and hold a lot of conferences and lectures, and also classes to learn how to use Linux. They also have regular region-wide (North Africa & Middle East) conferences, most recently in Khartoum (Sudan).

However, Microsoft is also pushing quite hard into these regions. Even though they know about 99.99% of users there pirate their software, they still push for it, because they know they'll get hooked, and they can 'collect one day'.

sinaisix
July 18th, 2009, 04:22 PM
OLPC (http://laptop.org/) is designed to take care of stuff like this. It runs on a modified version of Red Hat, which has a kid-friendly interface (made in python) that is designed to be used by people of any language, and even if they're not too literate.

North African countries are beginning to get quite involved in FOSS. There was a very active Linux commnity in Alexandria (Egypt) when I was there earlier this year. They have regular installfests at univerities and hold a lot of conferences and lectures, and also classes to learn how to use Linux. They also have regular region-wide (North Africa & Middle East) conferences, most recently in Khartoum (Sudan).

However, Microsoft is also pushing quite hard into these regions. Even though they know about 99.99% of users there pirate their software, they still push for it, because they know they'll get hooked, and they can 'collect one day'.
i see.i know about the OLPC program but it does not seem to be making any impact,at least to me.it has been rocked by scandals in Ghana quite recently and it seems to be taken forever to accomplish.thats my view though.

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 04:44 PM
The fruits of something like the OLPC project will not be seen until a generation grows up with them, and it becomes an everyday part of their educational experience.

I don't know much about their roll out progress, but I don't think it's that far behind schedule.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 06:05 PM
unfortunately, a lot of Africa doesn't have to much money.

one of the many reasons that is a bad thing is that it makes it easier for outsiders to influence the choices Africans make.

China is an outsider, and has recently been taking a bigger and bigger interest in Africa.

China is also behind Red Flag Linux. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux

Perhaps they will view pushing RFL as a way to lock Africans into looking to China and not north to the EU or west to the Americas for people to work with on computer stuff.


food for thought.


when we consider this stuff, however, we need to recall that sub-saharan Africa isn't a bunch of Nelsen Mandelas running around with flowers and posies and love.

most of Africa is run by dictators and thugs, with racism* and sexism being the the accepted norm. heartbreaking and unfortunate, but true. any generalisation, naturally, is bound to have a zillion holes able to be shot through it.


http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~adelong3/img/iotw/WomanIsYourFriend.jpg
is it more important that there is actually a reason for this poster to exist, or is it more important that the woman is or is not using proprietary software?

even rms has acknowledged that, relatively, there are plenty of other freedoms more vital than software freedom.




*if your boss, coworkers, bank, family, the guy you vote for if you can vote, and your entire group of friends are all from the same tribe - but you live in an incredibly diverse area.... yeah, exactly.

SirBismuth
July 18th, 2009, 06:07 PM
There is a drive in South/Southern African to get Linux into schools, as it's virtually free, and some variants can run on older technology.

I don't have the links on hand, but it's happening! :D

B

starcannon
July 18th, 2009, 06:12 PM
i am just wondering how Africa can use FOSS to its benefit given how the continent lags behind in terms of IT.i wonder what you nice folks think.

I'm not sure to be honest; but if I am allowed to make an uneducated speculation, I would tend to think this would be a place for Africa to thrive, a continent that is on the cutting edge of foss and free of the corporate bindings that the rest of the world is very hung up in, seems to me would have a marked advantage; though I would not know if it were enough to overcome the economic and other obstacles. Just something for consideration, but again, these are merely speculations on my part, as I have nothing but opinion to back up my assertions with.

GL and HF

edit:
The domestic violence poster exists here in the U.S. as well (different art, same message with different words), and I'm sure in other countries around the world; and yet, we forge on in technological areas while continuing to try to overcome some societal and cultural problems. If the rest of the world can do both at once, I see no reason why the African Continent should not be able to do so as well.

sinaisix
July 18th, 2009, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure to be honest; but if I am allowed to make an uneducated speculation, I would tend to think this would be a place for Africa to thrive, a continent that is on the cutting edge of foss and free of the corporate bindings that the rest of the world is very hung up in. Just something for consideration, but again, these are merely speculations on my part, as I have nothing but opinion to back up my assertions with.

GL and HF

edit:
The domestic violence poster exists here in the U.S. as well (different art, same message with different words), and I'm sure in other countries around the world; and yet, we forge on in technological areas while continuing to try to overcome some societal and cultural problems. If the rest of the world can do both at once, I see no reason why the African Continent should not be able to do so as well.
i agree.Africa must seize the opportunities FOSS presents to its advantage.

ibutho
July 18th, 2009, 06:22 PM
i am just wondering how Africa can use FOSS to its benefit given how the continent lags behind in terms of IT.i wonder what you nice folks think.

I think you need to be careful about generalisation. There are 53 countries in Africa, some doing better than others. In some countries there is a good IT infrastructure and in others there isn't (just like any other continent). IMHO I think poor digital communications especially in rural areas is the greatest problem because this also affects broadband penetration. Projects like OLPC do help, but they are not ideal for every country. For the poor countries, FOSS would be a great money saver, but Microsoft basically gives away its software to many African schools and governments so many children are growing up knowing Windows and reliant on Microsoft software.

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 06:23 PM
earthpigg,

Your rant about African nations is a bit out of place.

All cultures and societies have problems, and as someone else pointed out, domestic violence is rampant in Western countries too, that has very little to do with FOSS. If everyone who had problems just put everything only hold until they fixed those problems, then nothing would ever get done.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 06:33 PM
edit:
The domestic violence poster exists here in the U.S. as well (different art, same message with different words), and I'm sure in other countries around the world; and yet, we forge on in technological areas while continuing to try to overcome some societal and cultural problems. If the rest of the world can do both at once, I see no reason why the African Continent should not be able to do so as well.

they can, and i certainly hope they do!

South Africa is on the right to its own prosperity. i assume that, in this discussion, we are focusing on those parts of africa where slavery and genocide are the norm. perhaps that is not the case, but that is where the majority of my concern lies.

the bottom line is this:

free software can help anyone and everyone, and i certainly hope it does.


will it? does it? a slave is unlikely to be helped by free software in any significant degree.

this is where i lived for a year:

The number of slaves in the country was not known exactly, but is was estimated to be up to 600,000 men, women and children, or 20% of the population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania

A pirated copy of Microsoft Windows using Internet Explorer that is connected to the internet can get the word out about that just as effectively as an Ubuntu box.

do i give a crap about piracy when my neighbour is a slave family living in a tent, and owned by my other neighbour? no.

the slave doesn't own a computer nor is he allowed to use his master's, and i dont give a crap about the slave owner's ability to exercise the Four Software Freedoms.

i am certainly not going to give him an Ubuntu CD.

if knowledge is power, why would i empower him beyond the power he already has?



is Free Software great stuff? hell yes!

do i see it as having had any effect on the worst off in one of the poorest nations on the planet, having lived there? no.


this is the neighbour i spoke of above, in the city of Nouakchott, Islamic Republic of Mauritania:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/earthpiglite/neighbor.jpg

(not embedding because it's to big, will mess the thread up)

ibutho
July 18th, 2009, 06:40 PM
earthpigg, where exactly are you getting your facts? Slavery and genocide are not the norm in Africa. Like I said above, there are 53 countries in Africa (many peaceful nations that you probably have never heard of), so be careful about generalisation.

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM
this is the neighbour i spoke of above, in the city of...

And here (http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-10/42733701.jpg) is a picture of a shanty in LA, USA. Personally I think the one in Mauritania looks nicer :)

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 07:00 PM
earthpigg, where exactly are you getting your facts? Slavery and genocide are not the norm in Africa. Like I said above, there are 53 countries in Africa (many peaceful nations that you probably have never heard of), so be careful about generalisation.

one or the other is the norm in some parts, as i sourced above.

i assumed we where concerned about the most unfortunate souls, not the best off. you are correct, of course, some parts of africa are better off than parts of Western Europe or North America. absolutely. i will not disagree with that for a moment. who are we worried about, here?


And here is a picture of a shanty in LA, USA. Personally I think the one in Mauritania looks nicer

the man living in the shanty has his freedom, and probably access to soup kitchens and fairly clean water.

the family in my picture has none of that, except what the master grants the family.

i'd rather be a homeless man in LA in a heartbeat!

the family is certainly not physically chained down, you may note.

they can simply pack their tent up and walk off -- to die. no soup kitchens in that town, no reliable rain, and no one hires former slaves for a variety of reasons both racist/tribalist and others that are pragmatic: former slaves only speak Arabic and not Wolof, Suniki, or Pular... can't communicate with other employees or customers without resorting to the language of the disliked Arabs/Moors. The slave-owning Arabs certainly aren't going to hire an escaped slave, obviously.


Education is the key!

Free Software can be a part of that, but it will likely not be the key part. computers are expensive!

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 07:10 PM
can't communicate with other employees or customers without resorting to the language of the disliked Arabs/Moors

Arabic is the official language of the country, so it can't be that disliked...

Jimleko211
July 18th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Arabic is the official language of the country, so it can't be that disliked...
Not true. Arabic is more than likely the language of government. You can see the same in the Former Soviet Republic of Russia, where Russian was spoken by the government and Russians, but in all the territories they conquered they spoke their local language, and detested both the Russians and the Russian language.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 07:22 PM
Arabic is the official language of the country, so it can't be that disliked...

you are assuming that a ruling elite needs to be 'liked' to be the ruling elite. what a silly assumption!


here's the deal:
the minority Arabs/Moors run the show. they fudge the numbers to ensure they are seen to the outside world as the majority*. they are nominally a democracy, but routine coups deal with that. slavery has been outlawed three times since the 1980s, and it was outlawed before that by the French. slavery being outlawed has had less effect on the practice of slavery then speeding being outlawed effects weather or not someone speeds on the highway. all my friends speed, my parents speed, its normal and culturally accepted to speed.

a dude in America or Europe is likely to have at least met someone in his or her life who was actually punished for speeding, for example....

...it was regarded as kind of a big deal a few years back when the first successful prosecution against a slave owner occured since independence from the French in (iirc) 1961.


*is a slave an Arab? he probably has Arab blood in his veins. slave women, like the slave's mother, doesn't get to say 'no' to their master. also, keep in mind there aren't exactly birth certificates or social security cards in this nation. only the wealthy have passports.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 07:29 PM
o, and foriegn governments know everything i just said. not a secret at all.

confronting the ruling elite on this fact and attempting to hold them accountable would affect the likelyhood of recieving cooperation when those foriegn governments come looking for drug trafficing, terrorists, cheap minerals from that one (copper? i cant remember) mine out in the desert, and that oil well they are building offshore, etc etc.


since there is virtually zero culteral exchange between people in the Islamic Republic of Mauritania and Europe/N. America, there is zero public/voter incentive for any politician to really worry about the issue of Slavery more than cheap raw materials, going after alleged terrorists, the fact that this Islamic nation is on the fence regarding the recognition of Israel, drug trafficing, etc.

in short:
$, € and (insert Israeli flag here) > slavery.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 07:33 PM
pre-emptive:

Free Software is about Freedom.

the issue of slavery is only off topic if you think Free Software and Freedom have no relation to each other.

if the thread title was about open source, then slavery would be off topic.

thread author asked about FOSS. Free and Open Source Software.

Freedom, in general, is thus germane to the discussion.

Sublime Porte
July 18th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Jimleko,


Not true. Arabic is more than likely the language of government. You can see the same in the Former Soviet Republic of Russia, where Russian was spoken by the government and Russians, but in all the territories they conquered they spoke their local language

These statements tend to indicate a clear ignorance of the history of the regions involved. The USSR occupied countries about 100 years ago, and tried to enforce a language on them, which was never adopted, the USSR collapsed, and so their language never really took hold.

Mauritania has been Arabic for probably 1000 years. And over 70% of the country speaks Arabic fluently.

earthpigg,


you are assuming that a ruling elite needs to be 'liked' to be the ruling elite. what a silly assumption

But the elite are not the only Arabic speakers there. This is your false presumption.


they fudge the numbers to ensure they are seen to the outside world as the majority

I doubt they really care how they appear to the outside world.

Besides this is not unusual in the region, Lebanon for instance hasn't held a census since the 1930's when they were under French occupation, due to the fact Christians are not a majority there, yet are the ruling class.


o, and foriegn governments know everything i just said. not a secret at all.

Since most of the region's governments were established during the colonial period, that's not surprising. They're just caretakers, not sovereign nations.


the fact that this Islamic nation is on the fence regarding the recognition of Israel

I doubt they really care about recognition by Mauitania. Since it has very little effect on the Middle East.

Jimleko211
July 18th, 2009, 08:40 PM
I love how you keep telling Earthpigg that he's wrong about the country that he lives in.

Dr. C
July 18th, 2009, 09:53 PM
they can, and i certainly hope they do!

South Africa is on the right to its own prosperity. i assume that, in this discussion, we are focusing on those parts of africa where slavery and genocide are the norm. perhaps that is not the case, but that is where the majority of my concern lies.

the bottom line is this:

free software can help anyone and everyone, and i certainly hope it does.


will it? does it? a slave is unlikely to be helped by free software in any significant degree.

this is where i lived for a year:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania

A pirated copy of Microsoft Windows using Internet Explorer that is connected to the internet can get the word out about that just as effectively as an Ubuntu box.

do i give a crap about piracy when my neighbour is a slave family living in a tent, and owned by my other neighbour? no.

the slave doesn't own a computer nor is he allowed to use his master's, and i dont give a crap about the slave owner's ability to exercise the Four Software Freedoms.

i am certainly not going to give him an Ubuntu CD.

if knowledge is power, why would i empower him beyond the power he already has?



is Free Software great stuff? hell yes!

do i see it as having had any effect on the worst off in one of the poorest nations on the planet, having lived there? no.


this is the neighbour i spoke of above, in the city of Nouakchott, Islamic Republic of Mauritania:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/earthpiglite/neighbor.jpg

(not embedding because it's to big, will mess the thread up)

The key question here is who controls the computer the oppressor or the oppressed. The 4 freedoms benefit whoever controls the computer but not necessarily those who interact with that person. Free Software is a very powerful tool but is can be used for both good and evil.

In the slave master controlling the computer case the 4 freedoms benefit the slave master and not the slaves since the 4 freedoms could be used to make the servitude of the slaves even worse. On the other hand Ubuntu is a far more effective tool to get the word out than pirated windows. So if the slaves got a hold of a computer and wanted to keep it hidden from their master and use it to "get the word out" Ubuntu is a far more effective tool than pirated windows with IE.

By the way slavery is a serious worldwide problem today and not just limited to one continent or a handful of countries.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 11:13 PM
But the elite are not the only Arabic speakers there. This is your false presumption.

when did i make any presumption even close to that? please avoid placing words in my mouth.

people prefer to speak their native language, including paying customers. if you walk into a cafe, all the employees will be from the same tribe. say, Pular. those pular can be expected to speak to the Arabic customers in Arabic, European customers in French, the Pular in Pular, and the Wolof in Wolof.

these dudes pick up languages like dogs pick up fleas. except slaves and former slaves because their experiences growing up where usually very limited - slaves hang out with slaves, and all the slaves have Arab masters.

these former slaves will likely be your only employees that can not speak with 8/10 of your customers in the native language of the customer.

being tribalist is normal there. but, even if you are what westerners might call 'enlightened', it still doesn't make pragmatic sense to hire a former slave for a job requiring customer interaction.

and other jobs? construction, for example?

those firms are mostly owned by Moors.

and those that aren't?

there are very few jobs i can think of, including construction, wherein someone capable of independent thought is not better than someone who is not. <-- horrible thing to say, but true. i never really thought the elementary school 'problem solving' exercises where worthwhile... until i worked with people that did not have it.

education is key.


I doubt they really care about recognition by Mauitania. Since it has very little effect on the Middle East.

they cared enough to build an Embassy there, which got shot up one night at 2 am. my roomate at the time was at an establishment right next door, his jeans where stained with human blood. (the Moor terrorists lit up the establishment frequented by black africans and westerners for good measure)


By the way slavery is a serious worldwide problem today and not just limited to one continent or a handful of countries.

you are correct, of course. cultural acceptance of it and it being accepted as normal, however, is something i cannot help but feel especially strong about.

earthpigg
July 18th, 2009, 11:20 PM
they fudge the numbers to ensure they are seen to the outside world as the majority
I doubt they really care how they appear to the outside world.

even a bit of foreign aid can mean a lot when $200/month is a very nice wage. (obviously, aside from token projects here and there that aid will not get to anyone but Moors, but that is beside the point...)

the nation doesn't need to actually convince any foriegn governments they are happy good people -- they just need to give the foreign governments and politicians enough to casually dismiss the factual accusations of that nation's citizens.

google search for any european or north american government's commentary on slavery in that nation, if you do not believe me.

then, compare that to what people inside the country say, and what the United Nations has to say.

elliotn
July 19th, 2009, 12:46 AM
they can, and i certainly hope they do!

South Africa is on the right to its own prosperity. i assume that, in this discussion, we are focusing on those parts of africa where slavery and genocide are the norm. perhaps that is not the case, but that is where the majority of my concern lies.

the bottom line is this:

free software can help anyone and everyone, and i certainly hope it does.


will it? does it? a slave is unlikely to be helped by free software in any significant degree.

this is where i lived for a year:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania

A pirated copy of Microsoft Windows using Internet Explorer that is connected to the internet can get the word out about that just as effectively as an Ubuntu box.

do i give a crap about piracy when my neighbour is a slave family living in a tent, and owned by my other neighbour? no.

the slave doesn't own a computer nor is he allowed to use his master's, and i dont give a crap about the slave owner's ability to exercise the Four Software Freedoms.

i am certainly not going to give him an Ubuntu CD.

if knowledge is power, why would i empower him beyond the power he already has?



is Free Software great stuff? hell yes!

do i see it as having had any effect on the worst off in one of the poorest nations on the planet, having lived there? no.


this is the neighbour i spoke of above, in the city of Nouakchott, Islamic Republic of Mauritania:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/earthpiglite/neighbor.jpg

(not embedding because it's to big, will mess the thread up)

Slavery? What exactly do u mean by slavery, in most cases isnt it suppose to be the richest countries that are keeping africans as slaves? But yes it use to be, I wouldnt call what happening in your neighbourhood slavery, it might be sort of identical but it isnt.


FOSS in Africa aint having any effect, if F0SS is then OOo was suppose to lead the way, most of my friends do have it in their obvious pirated Windows versions.

I am one in a million where I live, as I was the first one to use Linux mainly Ubuntu, people would ask for my pirated windows software as we use to exchange 'em, When they see my box loading they start asking wtf is this? I then explain, they'll try some few clicks and say uhh its complicated.

Africa's internet is expensive so an ordinary person from out of the city cannot afford to be roaming around the net reseaching about FOSS. Likely my friends who have asked for a copy of ubuntu have me to do all the dirty work for them, just gotta love AptOnCd it helps me limit the net cost when installing Ubuntu in their box, ofcoz I have to make it dual boot with windows.

FOSS depends on internet thus it cant just get in those of us who doesnt have ADSL.
Hope Seacom will live in its expectations

elliotn
July 19th, 2009, 12:57 AM
eathping.... People like to speak their native languages!! It doesnt happen much in SA, here a program written in isiZulu is unusable, only programs in Afrikaans are being used by the Afrikaneers, in shops peoples use their languages yes but the convesation therefor breaks as english jumps in now and then.

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 12:58 AM
Slavery? What exactly do u mean by slavery, in most cases isnt it suppose to be the richest countries that are keeping africans as slaves? But yes it use to be, I wouldnt call what happening in your neighbourhood slavery, it might be sort of identical but it isnt.

i am glad you are serving to illustrate the biggest part of this problem from the point of view of someone in the West, but i am afraid you are entirely and completely ill informed my friend.

i actually mean slavery.

as in, Sparticus was a slave.
as in, slap a 'for sale, $500' sign on an attractive woman's rear end.
as in, the slave works and the master gets paid.
as in, the right of life or death over property.
as in, your grandfather owned my grandfather and now you own me.
as in, you will do what you are told or you will be beaten.
as in, if it is no longer economical to keep you on staff then you will be disposed of.
as in, black people picking cotton in the 1850s.
as in, "3/5 of all other persons" in the US Constitution.
as in, you go to a restaurant, see an Arab family enjoying their dinner, and see a black fellow at the end of the table meekly and quietly sipping a glass of water.
as in, your master and your father are one in the same because your slave mother does not have the right to say "no"... and now, at the ripe age of 12, you discover that neither do you - and that your father/master does indeed feel a certain type of affection towards you.

yes, i was exactly precise and meant exactly what i said: Slavery.

do you have any questions at this time?

Sublime Porte
July 19th, 2009, 01:05 AM
Jimleko,


I love how you keep telling Earthpigg that he's wrong about the country that he lives in.

From what I understood, earthpigg, lived there for some period of time. Living in a country though doesn't make one the ultimate arbiter on the statistics/history of the country. I'm sure some people live inside countries for decades, or even their entire life, and still don't know a tiny fraction of some others who've never even visited the country.

earthpigg,


the Moor terrorists...

It sounds like you have an axe to grind with a certain ethnicity from there (ie. the dominant one), and your experiences there sound like they were limited to one small area, perhaps where members of that ethnicity behave badly. That sounds like a very narrow minded view of the country though if you ask me. I've had friends from Mauritania before, and they don't describe anything like what you do. I've also studied a little about the history of North Africa, and there seems to be a lot you don't take into account.

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 01:12 AM
eathping.... People like to speak their native languages!! It doesnt happen much in SA, here a program written in isiZulu is unusable, only programs in Afrikaans are being used by the Afrikaneers, in shops peoples use their languages yes but the convesation therefor breaks as english jumps in now and then.

if you owned a shop and where barely able to pay the monthly bills, and your competition employed people that could speak 4 or 5 languages... would you hire someone who could only speak one language, maybe two?

charity is great, but how many people are really willing to put the welfare of their family at risk by hiring an employee that could drive business away?

it is easy to think of charity when we have our "needs" met and are considering which of our "wants" to choose from.

it is when our basic "needs", and those of our loved ones, are not being met that we see who the true saints are.

and there aren't very many. i am certainly no saint.


(to folks that have never been to Africa - if there can be one universal truth of Sub-Saharan Africa, it is that speaking 4 or more languages is normal.)

elliotn
July 19th, 2009, 01:15 AM
i am glad you are serving to illustrate the biggest part of this problem from the point of view of someone in the West, but i am afraid you are entirely and completely ill informed my friend.

i actually mean slavery.

as in, Sparticus was a slave.
as in, slap a 'for sale, $500' sign on an attractive woman's rear end.
as in, the slave works and the master gets paid.
as in, the right of life or death over property.
as in, your grandfather owned my grandfather and now you own me.
as in, you will do what you are told or you will be beaten.
as in, if it is no longer economical to keep you on staff then you will be disposed of.
as in, black people picking cotton in the 1850s.
as in, "3/5 of all other persons" in the US Constitution.
as in, you go to a restaurant, see an Arab family enjoying their dinner, and see a black fellow at the end of the table meekly and quietly sipping a glass of water.
as in, your master and your father are one in the same because your slave mother does not have the right to say "no"... and now, at the ripe age of 12, you discover that neither do you - and that your father/master does indeed feel a certain type of affection towards you.

yes, i was exactly precise and meant exactly what i said: Slavery.

do you have any questions at this time?

West? No am African, from Africa, dramatically things have shift yes we do believe so as we dont look at the negative side but tends to pick all the good positives of what Ubuntu as a phrase have thought us neither u green nor yellow.

Yes the green might see red as an ugly colour than blue or the other way around, still it makes a huge different as we all paint in the same wall

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 01:23 AM
From what I understood, earthpigg, lived there for some period of time. Living in a country though doesn't make one the ultimate arbiter on the statistics/history of the country. I'm sure some people live inside countries for decades, or even their entire life, and still don't know a tiny fraction of some others who've never even visited the country.

this is a correct statement, of course. i lived there for a year.



the Moor terrorists...
It sounds like you have an axe to grind with a certain ethnicity from there (ie. the dominant one)

the terrorists in question where Moors.

but you are correct, i certainly have no love for their culture.


your experiences there sound like they were limited to one small area, perhaps where members of that ethnicity behave badly.

the capital city, Nouakchott. i didn't make it out amongst the desert nomads any, no. nor did i make it down along the Senegal border.


I've had friends from Mauritania before, and they don't describe anything like what you do.

experiences may differ. i was not there as a tourist or on a quick business trip - i was living, working, and socializing there. working with dudes from the assorted tribes and, yes, a Moor or two. of those i would count as friends, however, the only one that had significant Moor blood was an individual whos mother could not say "No", as i described above.

so yes, my opinion was affected by my experiences and the experiences of my friends.


I've also studied a little about the history of North Africa, and there seems to be a lot you don't take into account.

though i myself do love and study history, i dont believe i described the historical context of Mauritania at all in any of my posts.

i certainly hope you are not bringing that up in order to blame the present situation in Mauritania on French Colonialism and shift blame away from the current ruling elite. It would be horribly discourteous of me to assume that is where you where going, so i will not make that assumption.



else, we may as well blame the Ancient Greeks and go amok capturing, owning, and trading in slaves ourselves. good times, no?

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 01:26 AM
West? No am African, from Africa

o right, it's right there below your avatar. my poor assumption.

well, then i hate to break it to you, buddy: traditional slavery is still practised on your continent. :(

ibutho
July 19th, 2009, 01:36 AM
Does anyone else think that earthpigg has killed a good discussion with his obsession with slavery? We are supposed to be discussing FOSS and Africa, not earthpiggs obsession with slavery and other nonsense.

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 02:17 AM
not my fault everyone questions my statements of fact! :D

but if we want to discuss this as if the question was about Open Source software and not Free and Open Source Software, we can do that... when discussing Open Source, ethics, morals, and concepts of right and wrong can be left by the wayside.

my opinion on the [modified] origional question:

i am just wondering how Africa can use Open Source Software to its benefit given how the continent lags behind in terms of IT.i wonder what you nice folks think.

-the Open Source definition is a superior development model, regardless of what continent you live on.
-cheaper computers mean more machines in more hands.
-Open Source often means that even the most meek of means can have access to the most expensive and advanced software the Open Source community has to offer, which also offers more opportunities to learn.

using Open Source and gratis learning resources available online, an education in everything needed to know in order to be a system admin can be aboslutely free -- except the hardware cost and the cost of an internet connection.

using Open Source, an upstart African company with little capital at its disposal can save money and thus have a better shot at competing head-on with a European, Asian, or North American company.

of course:
using Open Source, a South African philanthropist can develope an operating system able to compete head-on with the American Big Boys Microsoft and Apple for only $10 million. :D

Sef
July 19th, 2009, 03:04 AM
Since this thread seems to have gotten back on track about Africa and FOSS, I will not lock it. If it gets back on politics, then it will be closed.

Dr. C
July 19th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I fail to see the distinction between Free Software and Open Source Software as particularly relevant here, a more relevant question is the impact of FOSS on Africa.

earthpigg
July 19th, 2009, 04:50 AM
I fail to see the distinction between Free Software and Open Source Software as particularly relevant here, a more relevant question is the impact of FOSS on Africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaNaRM7H6Z4

:D