New users experiment

[Ultimo Aliento]

Hi !

I begin to use linux 8-10 months ago, i was so pleased since the first month, that i started talking with my friends about linux , and when i discover Ubuntu (5 months), i get enough confidence to try to install ubuntu with windows in some of my friends machines.

So far, of 5 friends with linux and windows installed, all of them with no experience with linux, only one still use linux, mostly to open his email and navigate, because he hate the spyware.

Here is a list of the reason's they gave me after the first 2 months:

1.- No games at all.
2.- Everything is complicate
3.- I cant see my hard drive ! (before Breezy)
4.- Mp3 dont work "out of the box"
5.- Windows has more eyecandy
6.- They never found a way to put they 56k conecction's to work

After that, i started trying to solve they problems, installing ET (games), giving them a little tutorial, installing them breezy (hard drive), the multimedia codecs (mp3), gDesklets (eyecandy) and... i never found the way to put the 56k to work, but 3 of them get better conections.

Still, they chose windows over linux, even if they need to reinstall windows every month (virus, spyware, problems with several programs) , and spend money buying new antivirus... only one of them started using linux for websurfing after his windows partition got infected, and he really needed to check his email...

The last week, after hearing my friends complain of they machine's, i asked they again about linux, and i get this answer :

Linux is not windows, windows is simple, easier and work for me.

But... windows doesnt work for them ! (i denied to accept that reinstalling a desktop system every 15-30 days could be called a "working" desktop system), and after looking them spend 4 or more hours trying to get a game working, and getting a windows blue screen (the one that you get when you mess everything), i dont think that windows is easier.

Right now i give up with them except for the websurfer, wich found some days ago the "battle of wesnoth" game... still, after reading some of the thread's about windows "die hard" users, i still wonder why they just cant try.

[Vlammetje]

well I personally wonder why some people try and force it upon them.

People resist change, it's one of the things people in general do not like. They will switch to linux when they're ready, and probably many of them never will be ready and never will make the switch. Why can't we just leave them be? To each his own.

Windows does get the job done. Spyware and such can be stopped if you do it rightly. People know how to use windows so they like it. There is nthing wrong with that

I personally do not see it as anybody's mission to 'convert' windows users. What are? the Jehova Witnesses of the OS-world? No thank you.

[Virogenesis]

Vlammetje I find your response awfully rude I do agree with you to a certain point BUT if they are complaining about reinstalling all the time and you can suggest something better a solotion to a problem then do so.

Ultimo Aliento I personaly will not sugguest linux to everyone as some might say its not everyone's cup of tea.
For instance my sister is a complete windows novice I myself will not even dare tell her to install linux as she will have problems.

I do sugguest Ubuntu to both my brother and a friend of mine they are both windows gamers they both would be suited for linux apart from the gaming side of things.
For instance one has a server and well its a bit of a beast its wasted running windows to be perfectly honest.
He has talked about running ipcop like my brother to act as a firewall/router but he also talked about running a ftp server and a http server now he has stated he does not wish to learn he wants it to run out of the box and not know what hes doing.
My response to this was stick with windows.

Linux is suitable for some and not for others its not exactly a linux problem more like a user problem like most.

Ultimo Aliento try Nexuiz its a fantasic FPS and the community is pretty good behind it.
Warzone 2100 is also available for downloading and is a very enjoyable game to play.

The moral of it all is Windows works for some.
Same goes for Linux.

Let them have their digs at you and the OS you use.
Have your digs at them for virus scanning, defragging and the rest of the tasks they have to do as standard.

All that matters is that you use what you feel comfortable and happy with.

[Vlammetje]

well I have no intention of being 'awfully rude'. I do firmly believe that people should allow other people to have different views though.

Anyway... on the 'windows novice' topic: my findings are actually opposite of yours. My partner, who is essentially a computer n00b and does not have any prior OS knowledge, gets around in my Ubuntu install rather easily. To him this is just 'how the thing works' as his mind has not previously been set by other methods (like my own). In my view, it's the more experienced user who is likely to have a harder time conversing.

[mike998]

I'm afraid I must side with Vlammetje on this one.

Some people will complain about Windows but be unable to cope with the changes that moving to another OS will bring.

We shouldn't attempt to force Linux or Ubuntu on anyone.

[Brunellus]

I have taken the position that I will no longer support Windows; too much fuss. IF my friends/family have computer problems, especially windows-related ones, I am less willing now to fix them, and would advise them, where possible, to find an alternative operating system.

This is as much because I actually dont' know as much about Windows anymore as I do about Linux, so it makes my life easier.

The general ubuntuforums consensus seems to be that the best candidates for migration from Windows to Ubuntu are those who fall into two categories:

1) Users with zero computer experience. They have no prior expectations, no bad habits, no set patterns of behaviour. They still must learn the system, but they have nothing to unlearn.

2) Technically-minded, self-directed users. These have expectations, but usually also have a more realistic view of what they need to accomplish in a new operating system. They are also more likely to read manuals.

The WORST candidate for OS migration are the type of user described by the OP--They have significant computer experience, but only on Windows, and expect every new computer to conform to their expectations of what they had before. They are the worst of both worlds: not only do they refuse to unlearn their old ways (which is something one must do when adapting to *any* new environment), they also refuse to learn any new ways.

For instance, while I would be overjoyed if my office went to a fully Free software environment--Linux, and so forth--I think the vast majority of my coworkers would struggle. Many are twice my age (I'm 25), and they still treat their computers like glorified IBM Selectric typewriters. Worse, they are for the most part unwilling to even contemplate deviating from 15 years' worth of expectations.

[frodon]

In my mind, the question is simple : when you try something new you have to spend some times to understand it, if you don't you will not success.
So the problem is not switching to linux or ubuntu but to spend some times to learn something new. If you take the time, for sure you will find what you are looking for :)

[BSDFreak]

In my mind, the question is simple : when you try something new you have to spend some times to understand it, if you don't you will not success.
So the problem is not switching to linux or ubuntu but to spend some times to learn something new. If you take the time, for sure you will find what you are looking for :)

Or maybe not. Linux is not for everyone just like Windows is not for everyone.

[Ultimo Aliento]

Hi again all!

My original post need 3 fixes :

1) No one of my friends was forced to install linux... well, probably hearing me 5 hours talking about amarok-evolution-KDE-gnome-open source movement- could be called propaganda... but they were interested, and for us, it was fun (mostly for my friends, they continue making jokes about trying to play a .mp3 on linux, very good jokes :mad: )

2) 4 of my friends work on computers, for like 4 years we have complain together about virus, spyware, microsoft, windows x and more... i have like one year since my last complain, so i think that sharing the aswer it's a good idea.

3) The intention of the post was to share the experience, these 5 persons were interested, they have experience with computers, they have time to learn... and still, i wonder why they cant... and yeah , maybe a little complaint ;) , i still have to hear them talking about how Bill Gates ruin his life.

[jc87]

1.- No games at all.
2.- Everything is complicate
3.- I cant see my hard drive ! (before Breezy)
4.- Mp3 dont work "out of the box"
5.- Windows has more eyecandy

1) A - Doom3 , UT2004 , Wine , cedega , dual boot , etc ....

2) I personally think Ubuntu much more easier than windows after a while using it , since i personnaly doubt your friends had started using windows just a few months ago , how can they compare it without the same time experience in Gnu/Linux?

4)Give a copy of your sources.list (already with all the necessary repos) to your friends , and then is just apt-get .... , or Automatix .

5) Only if you mean stuff like sytleXP and other stuff , with Gnome you already have all the eyecandy you need , just go to sites like Gnome art and download cool themes and artwork , besides , who can always use gdesklets.

By the way , have your friends bothered to read any tutorial about Ubuntu? i think not.

[aysiu]

I would generally agree with what people have posted:

1. Windows is better for a lot of users. Linux isn't for them.
2. We shouldn't force Linux on others.

I have to say, though, what's most important is that we mustn't misrepresent Linux to others. You may not have known enough about Linux and Ubuntu when you started your friends on it. If you had, you probably would have told them, "Game support is limited."

You also should always assess their needs. If MP3 playback is important, install it for them--don't make them install it themselves.

Or better yet, don't put them on Ubuntu. Lots of other Linux distros come with proprietary codecs out of the box (Blag, Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Linspire).

[Lord Illidan]

I have long since given up trying to convince my friends to use Linux. It is useless to force people. The best thing to do is solve a problem they have with Linux, and even then, it may not always work.

I now feel superior, because I am using a superior OS... that is what is nice, at least.

[frodon]

For sure the easiest way to make a friend use ubuntu is to perform the installation/configuration for him and then let him see how he feel with an ubuntu box well configurated.
Then if this person enjoy using ubuntu he will surely wish to learn more about linux.


I would generally agree with what people have posted:

1. Windows is better for a lot of users. Linux isn't for them.
2. We shouldn't force Linux on others.I agree with that, and it's why i always perform the installation/configuration myself when a friend of mine wants to try ubuntu.

[BSDFreak]

For sure the easiest way to make a friend use ubuntu is to perform the installation/configuration for him and then let him see how he feel with an ubuntu box well configurated.
Then if this person enjoy using ubuntu he will surely wish to learn more about linux.

I agree with that, and it's why i always perform the installation/configuration myself when a friend of mine wants to try ubuntu.

From experience i'd say that a user not interested in installing Linux himself won't be a Linux user for long.

The biggest advantage of Linux is that it's highly configurable (well, apart from Gnome), to recieve a preinstalled preconfigured box will make for lazy users who you'll have to spend a LOT of time with.

In a situation where everything is preconfigured and preinstalled and the user doesn't know and doesn't care it doesn't matter what OS he uses, he's not going to contribute to the FOSS community and he's not going to be happy when he discovers he can't do all the things he's used to doing.

FOSS doesn't benefit from these users, they don't contribute in any way.

The idea of release early and release often is going to get lost because these users won't take the time to file bug reports, most of them will just say "linux sucks" and return to windows, the time and effort people have spent on these unwilling Linux users is better spent improving the software in any way they can contribute.

Lazy ex windows users make lousy Linux users.

[aysiu]

It's nice to think that all FOSS users will "contribute" back to the community, but there's no harm in letting someone use a free operating system that will benefit her.

For people whose needs are basic, Linux operating systems are great, even if they don't file bug reports.

[BSDFreak]

It's nice to think that all FOSS users will "contribute" back to the community, but there's no harm in letting someone use a free operating system that will benefit her.

For people whose needs are basic, Linux operating systems are great, even if they don't file bug reports.

You missed my point entirely.

Anyone can use it, most will return to Windows because for them it's a better OS, it's fine, they wouldn't have contributed to FOSS anyway, why spend the time and effort?

If you spend that time and effort on helping FOSS to become better then in time it will be the best choice for just about everyone.

FOSS does not rely on users, it relies on contributors.

[aysiu]

Anyone can use it, most will return to Windows because for them it's a better OS, it's fine, they wouldn't have contributed to FOSS anyway, why spend the time and effort? I'm not saying you, BSDFreak, have to spend the time and effort. Don't. Clearly it's not important to you. I'm not saying the developers have to spend the time and effort. In fact, no one has to spend the time and effort.

If people want to spend the time and effort, leave them alone. Not everything has to go back to what's good for the FOSS community and development. Sometimes we just see miserable Windows users and want to let them know there's another alternative. Other times, we see miserable Windows users who would be even more miserable on Linux, so we leave them alone.

To each her own.

For you, it's important that we spend time and energy only on what makes a return for FOSS. For others, that doesn't matter.

[BSDFreak]

For you, it's important that we spend time and energy only on what makes a return for FOSS. For others, that doesn't matter.

Well, that is what FOSS is all about, you are not paying, you are contributing, things like bug reporting and patch submissions are integral in FOSS, trust me, if it wasn't there you'd notice.

So whether you like it or not, it does matter to you too.