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View Full Version : Be careful, Nvidia plans to cater only to Microsoft/Apple



jolo
June 26th, 2009, 07:25 AM
I just read an article that I would like to share with you.

Unfortunately, this seems to happening more and more, as Microsoft/Apple is going all out in their efforts to crush any and all competition for those hardware and software vendors and customers who want to use industry standards and not be locked into Windows/Apple's proprietary world.

Please look at the article from June 21st, posted on Linux Magazine.
Nvidia going with "Better with Windows" and blasts Linux and ubuntu (http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/nvidia_eschews_android_and_linux_prefers_windows_f or_tegra?category=13413)

I hope that people reading the article linked to below and call, email, write and generally be active to send out a strong message to Nvidea. Nvidea's Home Page (http://www.nvidia.com/page/home.html)

Thanks Jon T.

PurposeOfReason
June 26th, 2009, 08:28 AM
Considering nvidia has their pants around their ankles at the moment, I really couldn't care. ATI is getting their act together and releasing far better hardware. Nvidia needs to get a niche and fast. Linux isn't it, so they move on.

jolo
June 26th, 2009, 09:04 AM
Hmmm. Why is does Nvidia have their "pants around their ankles" ?

According to the following article from April 2009, Nvidia is overwhelmingly the leader in GPU market share. Over double the market share that ATI has in the Desktop market, which is the most profitable.
B]Financial Report about Nvidia versus ATI financials[/B] (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/04/30/nvidia-increases-market-share/1)
Compared to say 2007, Nvidia's market share has increased greatly.

Funny think is that it has been my experience as well as my advice from others in this forum that ATI have given Linux a very difficult time and had removed all support for it, until recently.

What can I say, it is up to us. If we as a community don't care that Nvidia, the worlds most popular maker of GPU, has signed on to join Microsoft to eliminate open source apps and Linux, then get your computers of all sizes to install Only Windows and Windows CE and remove Linux, Firefox, etc, etc.

Please read the article and act accordingly.

I can tell you that I have virtually NO sympathy for a giant like Nvidia and other Corporations that are being pressured as well as getting financial incentives to help Microsoft become a stronger and stronger monopoly and destroy any efforts for any alternatives.


Jon


Considering nvidia has their pants around their ankles at the moment, I really couldn't care. ATI is getting their act together and releasing far better hardware. Nvidia needs to get a niche and fast. Linux isn't it, so they move on.

Delever
June 26th, 2009, 09:18 AM
So, they are starting to recognize Linux big time? OK.

caravel
June 26th, 2009, 09:23 AM
No surprises here. This is why I tend to avoid the triumvirate of MS/Intel/Nvidia.

Rainstride
June 26th, 2009, 09:52 AM
No surprises here. This is why I tend to avoid the triumvirate of MS/Intel/Nvidia.

intel? they have been doing a LOT for free software lately. they gave us moblin, they open sourced there graphic drivers. and if i remember right they bought some big company and going open with the code....(unless my memory fails me). intel has done nothing but help us, though in retrospect there big enough that micro$oft can't tell them what to do.:)

jolo
June 26th, 2009, 10:12 AM
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????


So, they are starting to recognize Linux big time? OK.

-grubby
June 26th, 2009, 10:13 AM
I'm willing to bet that it's "better with Windows" for the majority of people. The people that don't like that can use a Mac. And for the few that don't, well, they don't buy Nvidia if they have compatibility issues with it.

jolo
June 26th, 2009, 10:16 AM
That is GREAT NEWS !!
Intel is not mentioned in the article, although I am aware that Intel is becoming a player in the netbook market, combining their CPU chips with GPU. I am aware that, they are becoming a threat to Nividia and ATI.

I think there are way more tech people who are extremely unhappy with the direction being forced on them by Microsoft and Co. and are looking for alternatives.

It is hard to fight an organization with virtually unlimited resources and their marketing and unethical tactics.

Jon




intel? they have been doing a LOT for free software lately. they gave us moblin, they open sourced there graphic drivers. and if i remember right they bought some big company and going open with the code....(unless my memory fails me). intel has done nothing but help us, though in retrospect there big enough that micro$oft can't tell them what to do.:)

steeleyuk
June 26th, 2009, 10:18 AM
intel? they have been doing a LOT for free software lately. they gave us moblin, they open sourced there graphic drivers. and if i remember right they bought some big company and going open with the code....(unless my memory fails me). intel has done nothing but help us, though in retrospect there big enough that micro$oft can't tell them what to do.:)

Also contributed some big improvements to GCC if I remember correctly. Its a pity more companies aren't like Intel.

jolo
June 26th, 2009, 10:19 AM
I think you have the appropriate approach. Nothing is more powerful than influencing with your wallet.

But ...who else is out there ??

I just think we need to remind vendors that we ARE out there.


No surprises here. This is why I tend to avoid the triumvirate of MS/Intel/Nvidia.

Jon

pt123
June 26th, 2009, 10:24 AM
Anyway on the Desktop Nvidia provide the best drivers, and are always updating it. So till AMD or Intel can match them, Nvidia is what I will continue to buy for the desktop.

graabein
June 26th, 2009, 10:30 AM
I'll put my money on the best hardware support when I get a new graphics card.

I'm actually considering a "nettop" (stupid name) as my main box down the road. A laptop without screen and keyboard that has average power and an okay 3D card (ION?) which is also silent and mobile.

Delever
June 26th, 2009, 10:35 AM
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

They want to stay proprietary, and open software is a threat to proprietary software. Creating campaigns against open software means recognizing that open software ecosystem exists and starting big fight against it, thus igniting blogs, forums and news sources all over the place, making open software and linux more visible. Notice, they understand it and try to avoid mentioning linux at all costs - but doing so is almost the same as usual advertising, just with previously mentioned negative effects.

SunnyRabbiera
June 26th, 2009, 10:57 AM
But there is no mention of Nvidia abandoning linux support in the article, they are just not going for the android.
They didnt outright say they would abandon linux in the article, andoid and mobile devices are one thing but the desktop is another.
And I sort of see where Nvidia is concerned here, after all Ubuntu and and Android are fresh faces in the market compared to something like CE that has been around for a while.
But once Linux and android take off I think they will support them.

billgoldberg
June 26th, 2009, 11:00 AM
No surprises here. This is why I tend to avoid the triumvirate of MS/Intel/Nvidia.

Intel? Really.

Practically everything from Intel works perfectly in Linux.

SunnyRabbiera
June 26th, 2009, 11:02 AM
Intel? Really.

Practically everything from Intel works perfectly in Linux.

Yeh lately Intel has been on a relatively fair role with Linux

eragon100
June 26th, 2009, 11:14 AM
Anyway on the Desktop Nvidia provide the best drivers, and are always updating it. So till AMD or Intel can match them, Nvidia is what I will continue to buy for the desktop.

+1 Me too.

ukripper
June 26th, 2009, 11:23 AM
i am waiting for that day when Google launches its own Linux Desktop - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/31/google_goes_desktop_linux/ competing directly with Apple MAc and MS Windows then we will see what Nv or Ati got to do and say about.

sim-value
June 26th, 2009, 11:40 AM
I have ATI
I will buy ATI
I dont care for NVIDIA

3rdalbum
June 26th, 2009, 11:44 AM
Nvidia prefers Windows CE for embedded devices. If I was in the decision to choose, I wouldn't make that choice - but it doesn't show that Nvidia hates Linux or will only cater to Microsoft and Apple.

Nvidia is beta testing an OpenCL driver for Linux, and is still developing VDPAU which is currently available for Nvidia GPUs and which Intel is considering adopting. Nvidia also helps develop upstream drivers for its Nforce motherboard chipset.

3rdalbum
June 26th, 2009, 11:49 AM
I have ATI
I will buy ATI
I dont care for NVIDIA

Enjoy your flickery, unaccelerated video playback :-P

khelben1979
June 26th, 2009, 12:07 PM
I read parts of the article but it didn't feel very interesting.

My view on using hardware from ATi, nVidia or from any other graphics company is this:

The hardware which works the best, and for a reasonal price tag is the one I am going to choose and it will also be the thing that I would recommend to anyone which would feel that he/she would like my recommendation.

I'm not much for politics. Either the graphics card is well made or it isn't. If it's crap I won't buy it.

ukripper
June 26th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Enjoy your flickery, unaccelerated video playback :-P

+1 got to agree on that one :D

sim-value
June 26th, 2009, 02:39 PM
+1 got to agree on that one :D

I Dont i watch HD 1080p videos with no Problem ...

CharmyBee
June 26th, 2009, 02:57 PM
Apparently, Linux isn't the Way It's Meant To Be Played(tm). And people called me hopeless nuts for the supporting the ATI thing. What sign is Stallman going to hold up now, since they're BOTH "enemies of your freedom" :o

NfF
June 26th, 2009, 04:11 PM
I would love to see an Intel processor with Linux preinstalled within it, once Ubuntu makes it big, there'll be lesser problems as it is widely supported. I feel a bit guilty for not paying for Ubuntu, as their products are really great. I remembered the first time i installed Ubuntu on my HD, i was really impressed. The Feisty Fawn, that is, and though there are a lot of problems, most of them were solved through Community Support.

I dont care much for Nvidia, though their cards are well known for high-end specs and..the price. Hopefully, by the next release "Koala" will receive attention.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Since Nvidia still has the best GPUs, I really don't care. And with the increased use of CUDA and VDPAU in both video and audio applications, I tend to care even less.

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 04:40 PM
ATI is the way to go anyway. NVIDIA has no plan of supporting open source. They won't even support KMS with their binary drivers.
At least ATI releases graphic card specs regularly. Eventually ATI cards will be much better supported than NVIDIA cards in linux world.

MikeTheC
June 26th, 2009, 04:50 PM
So, let me ask what *I* regard to be an obvious question...

How is a thread like this productive, exactly? I mean, nVidia could decide to drop all Linux support if they honestly believed the community hated them. (I don't think the community hates them, but that's not the point.) Then where would you be? ATI? Oh, give me a break.

The last thing the Linux community needs to do is put itself forth as a business-hostile platform.

Skripka
June 26th, 2009, 04:52 PM
ATI is the way to go anyway. NVIDIA has no plan of supporting open source. They won't even support KMS with their binary drivers.
At least ATI releases graphic card specs regularly. Eventually ATI cards will be much better supported than NVIDIA cards in linux world.

Yes, well....We're on a solid path to that--Arch dropped official support for Catalyst because it is so gawd awful a few months back.

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 04:57 PM
Yes, well....We're on a solid path to that--Arch dropped official support for Catalyst because it is so gawd awful a few months back.

I'm not talking about Catalyst. Check out radeon-hd. Also note the word "eventually" in my previous post.

Skripka
June 26th, 2009, 05:00 PM
I'm not talking about Catalyst. Check out radeon-hd. Also note the word "eventually" in my previous post.

Between the amount of work that needs done on it still, and between the release schedule of new cards and the massive line of cards to support or drop...that "eventually" will likely be measured in years.

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 05:05 PM
So, let me ask what *I* regard to be an obvious question...

How is a thread like this productive, exactly? I mean, nVidia could decide to drop all Linux support if they honestly believed the community hated them. (I don't think the community hates them, but that's not the point.) Then where would you be? ATI? Oh, give me a break.

The last thing the Linux community needs to do is put itself forth as a business-hostile platform.

First of all you assume that all threads here should be productive which is wrong. This is a discussion thread and it's perfectly valid.

Secondly, if you think a big company like NVIDIA will drop linux support just because community hates them, you're highly mistaken. In fact you don't know anything about corporate world. Only thing they care about is money and the first they NVIDIA starts losing money because of linux drivers they will end it. It's as simple as that.

Finally, NVIDIA doesn't care about the linux community at all. They showed it redundantly in their offical forum (nvforums was it?). Just do a search with keyword "linux" and see it for your self.

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 05:07 PM
Between the amount of work that needs done on it still, and between the release schedule of new cards and the massive line of cards to support or drop...that "eventually" will likely be measured in years.

It depends on how fast AMD will release card specs. Don't forget the fact that gallium3d, gem and ttm are still in very early stages. Once they mature writing drivers will be easier and faster.

MikeTheC
June 26th, 2009, 05:36 PM
Secondly, if you think a big company like NVIDIA will drop linux support just because community hates them, you're highly mistaken. In fact you don't know anything about corporate world.
Well, *that* sure struck a nerve.

I don't require a lesson or lecture from you on the way corporations work. I can tell you for a fact that corporations do factor in the appreciation and effort level associated with groups of potential customers (vis a vis how it effects the efficiency of their operations and their profitability) and decisions have definitely been made on that basis.

If nVidia, or ATI, or anyone else honestly gets to the point where they feel the Linux community has turned their noses up at them, they might actually leave. After all, why bother to support Linux when they can make serious money from the Windows crowd (in particular) and lack for nothing in the love and appreciation department? Hmm?

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 05:50 PM
...and lack for nothing in the love and appreciation department? Hmm?

well, that sums it up for me. I really don't know which department you're talking about. it looks like we're from different worlds.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Finally, NVIDIA doesn't care about the linux community at all. They showed it redundantly in their offical forum (nvforums was it?). Just do a search with keyword "linux" and see it for your self.
Community forums hardly represent the feelings of a company, you should realize that by spending time here. I can safely say that Mark Shuttleworth doesn't agree with everything that is posted here.

Not to mention the few pages of forums.nvidia.com with the search term "linux" that I read had nothing bad to say about Linux - in fact, they have Linux specific support boards.

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Community forums hardly represent the feelings of a company, you should realize that by spending time here. I can safely say that Mark Shuttleworth doesn't agree with everything that is posted here.

Not to mention the few pages of forums.nvidia.com with the search term "linux" that I read had nothing bad to say about Linux - in fact, they have Linux specific support boards.

community forums represent the feelings of a company if threads are replied by Nvidia workers which is the situation in the forums I'm talking about. I still can't remember the name so if anyone knows the name of the forum where Nvidia developers are actually replying to threads please send a link so we can all see how threads like "Will there be a support for XXX feature in Linux?" are replied with a simple "No". In fact I remember a thread about KMS where a Nvidia worker accused kernel developers to deliberately preventing them adding support for KMS. I don't know how it's possible.

moster
June 26th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I read parts of the article but it didn't feel very interesting.

My view on using hardware from ATi, nVidia or from any other graphics company is this:

The hardware which works the best, and for a reasonal price tag is the one I am going to choose and it will also be the thing that I would recomnend to anyone which would feel that he/she would like my recommendation.

I'm not much for politics. Either the graphics card is well made or it isn't. If it's crap I won't buy it.

That is Ok, but real question is this. Do we need to reward some company which are being friendly to linux and punish that being not.

Reward can be something like.. lets give general recommendation to buy Intel hardware. I thought that is good to somehow reward friendly hardware. I dont know yet how to properly punish non friendly hardware. Like those assh*les Broadcom.

edit:
OMG, I made so many errors in writing. Just ignore it.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 06:26 PM
That is Ok, but real question is this. Do we need to reward some company which are being friendly with linux and punish that being not.
No.

Reword can be something like.. let say give general recommendation to buy Intel hardware. Lets I think that would be good to somehow reward friendly hardware. I dont know yet how to properly punish non friendly hardware. Like those assh*les Broadcom.
I already recommend Intel hardware as it is superior to AMDs. And the easiest way to punish a non-friendly company is to not buy their products.

community forums represent the feelings of a company if threads are replied by Nvidia workers which is the situation in the forums I'm talking about. I still can't remember the name so if anyone knows the name of the forum where Nvidia developers are actually replying to threads please send a link so we can all see how threads like "Will there be a support for XXX feature in Linux?" are replied with a simple "No". In fact I remember a thread about KMS where a Nvidia worker accused kernel developers to deliberately preventing them adding support for KMS. I don't know how it's possible.
I went back to forums.nvidia.com and checked out the admin/mod list and it seemed pretty clear that they were not directly affiliated with Nvidia (one mod even had that in a warning in his sig).

cb951303
June 26th, 2009, 06:32 PM
I went back to forums.nvidia.com and checked out the admin/mod list and it seemed pretty clear that they were not directly affiliated with Nvidia (one mod even had that in a warning in his sig).

that's because I don't talk about forums.nvidia.com
it's another forum (obviously not the official one sorry). Since I can't remember the name of that forum, I can't back up my argument so nevermind me...

Dimitriid
June 26th, 2009, 06:59 PM
The "eventually" is indeed not worth it if you are thinking about investing in a new card, when the ATI drivers finally work the card will be so outdated is not even funny. The immediate future for the next few years at least looks like a massive regression for linux and 0 support for 3d.

Martje_001
June 26th, 2009, 07:02 PM
I already recommend Intel hardware as it is superior to AMDs. And the easiest way to punish a non-friendly company is to not buy their products.
Since when AMD is a non-friendly company? And why do you think Intel hardware is better than AMD hardware?

PurposeOfReason
June 26th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Hmmm. Why is does Nvidia have their "pants around their ankles" ?

According to the following article from April 2009, Nvidia is overwhelmingly the leader in GPU market share. Over double the market share that ATI has in the Desktop market, which is the most profitable.
B]Financial Report about Nvidia versus ATI financials[/b] (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/04/30/nvidia-increases-market-share/1)
Compared to say 2007, Nvidia's market share has increased greatly.

Funny think is that it has been my experience as well as my advice from others in this forum that ATI have given Linux a very difficult time and had removed all support for it, until recently.

What can I say, it is up to us. If we as a community don't care that Nvidia, the worlds most popular maker of GPU, has signed on to join Microsoft to eliminate open source apps and Linux, then get your computers of all sizes to install Only Windows and Windows CE and remove Linux, Firefox, etc, etc.

Please read the article and act accordingly.

I can tell you that I have virtually NO sympathy for a giant like Nvidia and other Corporations that are being pressured as well as getting financial incentives to help Microsoft become a stronger and stronger monopoly and destroy any efforts for any alternatives.


Jon
Just a few articles:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/nvidias-boss-kill-your-company-a-bit-every-day/
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/6/24/nvidia-gt300---geforce-gtx-380-yields-are-sub-3025.aspx

I never said ATI was better than Nvidia for linux, but as a company Nvidia is losing it. They sat up top too long and forgot to get moving. Without an x86 licence, they have little to go off of. They have insulted intel, ATI has AMD, Nvidia has nothing.

Sure, they recently wanted to but out AMD. . again. I'll let you do the math.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=AMD
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NVDA

Once again, I never said I was happy about it. With Intel not ready to take on ATI, if Nvidia fell, prices would go up.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Since when AMD is a non-friendly company? And why do you think Intel hardware is better than AMD hardware?
What? I didn't say that AMD wasn't a friendly company, I said that Intel had superior hardware. My point about not buying products from unfriendly companies was unrelated. And I believe Intel to have better hardware because, based on the numbers (benchmarks, sales, price to performance, overclocks vs non-overclocks), Intel has had the upper hand since the Core 2 Duo line was released. The numbers speak for themselves. (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-940,2114-18.html)

Martje_001
June 26th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Yes, well, performance isn't everything you know. It's also about stability, price/performance-ratio, heat-production, etc.

Sxeptomaniac
June 26th, 2009, 07:31 PM
From the article:

They certainly have no wish to end up like RealPlayer: Windows had Media, Mac OS had QuickTime, RealPlayer had no operating system. Users had to install it separately, which ended up killing the company.
Does this strike anyone else besides myself as a completely idiotic claim? Realplayer died because it was crappy software that installed adware/spyware and didn't work all that well, and not because it wasn't attached to an OS.

If this article's logic is correct, how do they explain the widespread use of Adobe Acrobat and Flash? I really hope this article doesn't reflect NVidia's thinking, or their company really is in trouble.

PurposeOfReason
June 26th, 2009, 07:36 PM
From the article:

Does this strike anyone else besides myself as a completely idiotic claim? Realplayer died because it was crappy software that installed adware/spyware and didn't work all that well, and not because it wasn't attached to an OS.

If this article's logic is correct, how do they explain the widespread use of Adobe Acrobat and Flash? I really hope this article doesn't reflect NVidia's thinking, or their company really is in trouble.
Not at all. WMP would be dead if it didn't come with Windows. Flash stays around because it is very, very useful for websites. AARreader is around for the fact that most non-tech people don't know any other PDF viewer AND when you have no PDF view installed in Windows, it recommends AAReader.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Yes, well, performance isn't everything you know. It's also about stability, price/performance-ratio, heat-production, etc.
Which, unless things have just recently changed, Intel was winning. My E6600 was running at 3.4GHz on air (a 1GHz overclock) rock solid stable for a year and a half. That's stability. It also never reached 40*C. And overall, price to performance isn't too bad for Intel. Sure, they are more expensive than AMD, but I don't think AMD can afford to cost much more than they do right now. Here's some overclocking benchmarks as food for thought. (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclock-phenom-ii,2119-5.html) I used to be an AMD fan (when 939 was the socket to have) but like I said, after C2D came out, there's really no contest. I just haven't seen the numbers to change my mind.

/off topic

PurposeOfReason
June 26th, 2009, 07:47 PM
Just for the record, idle temps mean nothing. Even less than nothing without an ambient temp.

dragos240
June 26th, 2009, 07:51 PM
I would say that we probably could get some unofficial drivers for NVIDIA hardware.

Skripka
June 26th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Just for the record, idle temps mean nothing. Even less than nothing without an ambient temp.

Perhaps. OTOH-Intels run cooler, are more energy efficient, and are faster than AMDs in most benchmarks. But AMDs are probably more cost-effective for most of us.

magmon
June 26th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Its times like this Im actually glad I have an ATI card.

moster
June 26th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by moster

That is Ok, but real question is this. Do we need to reward some company which are being friendly with linux and punish that being not.


No.

I already recommend Intel hardware as it is superior to AMDs. And the easiest way to punish a non-friendly company is to not buy their products.

I went back to forums.nvidia.com and checked out the admin/mod list and it seemed pretty clear that they were not directly affiliated with Nvidia (one mod even had that in a warning in his sig).

It is not that simple. There could pass to many month before they sense drop in sale and they might think that is because other reasons. You forget that us is only few %. But, if we are loud enough, they will not easily forget about us.
Point is, it is just driver, hardware is Ok.

BigSilly
June 26th, 2009, 08:35 PM
I'm confused. The article doesn't say anything about Nvidia dropping Linux support. :confused: Methinks some people may be looking for conspiracy where there is none.

LowSky
June 26th, 2009, 09:06 PM
I'm confused. The article doesn't say anything about Nvidia dropping Linux support. :confused: Methinks some people may be looking for conspiracy where there is none.

Yeah I didn't see anyhting about them dropping driver support. So they think Windows CE is the better platform, well they had to pick a camp and Microsoft has money, the linux community does not, and CE is estblished far longer than Android or any other mobile OS save maybe Blackerry.

It did like the part about nvidia having no other chip business to fall back on and comparing them to Real networks. ATI in the next comming years is going to create some industry changing products because of the AMD resources, and I don't know if Nvidia will be able to keep up without being purchased by a larger chip maker, like Samsung or Intel.

SunnyRabbiera
June 26th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Again I must say there is little evidence Nvidia is abandoning linux support here, they are just not using it on their mobile platform...
yet, but linux on the mobile is still kinda young so thats why they chose CE.
But the future of linux still looks bright, once Android, Moblin and other projects take a foot hold then we will see fireworks.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 09:22 PM
It is not that simple. There could pass to many month before they sense drop in sale and they might think that is because other reasons. You forget that us is only few %. But, if we are loud enough, they will not easily forget about us.
Point is, it is just driver, hardware is Ok.
Right... This is exactly why Nvidia chose to "endorse" the Windows CE platform - the Linux market is negligible so they stick the with tried and true platform. They are a business, can you expect anything less?

Again I must say there is little evidence Nvidia is abandoning linux support here, they are just not using it on their mobile platform...
yet, but linux on the mobile is still kinda young so thats why they chose CE.
But the future of linux still looks bright, once Android, Moblin and other projects take a foot hold then we will see fireworks.
This is basically what it boils down to. Nvidia didn't say that they hate Linux and will only go to Windows. They didn't even say they would stop making drivers/hardware for mobile devices. They said they have more faith and more invested in Windows CE. Once Android and Moblin actually make a splash in the market it will continue to be this way.


Edit:

Just for the record, idle temps mean nothing. Even less than nothing without an ambient temp.
I don't know if this was in regards to my temps (which were load temps on both cores, with ambient temps from 20-22*C) but I agree. Nobody runs their computers idle, so I don't see why people bother benching them. On the overclocking link I posted, the last page (Power Consumption) they compare AMD's processor to Intel's, saying that at idle on the Windows desktop, AMD draws less power because of Cool 'N Quiet. That's cool, but how many people actually let their computers idle? For me, it's either in use with a load, or off.

PurposeOfReason
June 26th, 2009, 09:35 PM
I don't know if this was in regards to my temps (which were load temps on both cores, with ambient temps from 20-22*C) but I agree. Nobody runs their computers idle, so I don't see why people bother benching them. On the overclocking link I posted, the last page (Power Consumption) they compare AMD's processor to Intel's, saying that at idle on the Windows desktop, AMD draws less power because of Cool 'N Quiet. That's cool, but how many people actually let their computers idle? For me, it's either in use with a load, or off.
Is that a true 100% load(prime95 like test) on both cores? Because if so, that is very impressive for an overclock on air.

.Maleficus.
June 26th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Is that a true 100% load(prime95 like test) on both cores? Because if so, that is very impressive for an overclock on air.
I only use Prime95 :). The E6600 was a phenomenal overclocker, unlike my QX6850 which is still running stock. I spent almost 3 weeks doing nothing but load tests, so like I said before, it was 100% stable. If my EVGA 680i had better mosfet and northbridge cooling, it probably could have gone higher.


Edit: And this was with an Artic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, not stock cooling. I don't know of anyone who seriously uses stock cooling though (if they overclock).

pt123
June 26th, 2009, 09:37 PM
that's because I don't talk about forums.nvidia.com
it's another forum (obviously not the official one sorry). .
Even if they did,
the fact that there drivers kick the other 2 companies,
the fact they are always updating their drivers just look at Phoronix
the fact they are ones who met Compiz's challenge ( Gnome was still in the 90s)
I would rather focus on actions than just words.

cb951303
June 27th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Even if they did,
the fact that there drivers kick the other 2 companies,
the fact they are always updating their drivers just look at Phoronix
the fact they are ones who met Compiz's challenge ( Gnome was still in the 90s)
I would rather focus on actions than just words.

for now you would. in fact I own 2 NVIDIA cards and 0 ATI cards myself. it doesn't change the fact that in the future ATI will surpass NVIDIA linux support-wise if NVIDIA keeps being stubborn. that's what I stated in the first place.

dragos240
June 27th, 2009, 12:42 AM
I think this is false, here's my proof:

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
I heard that linux may not be supported by nvidia for too much longer. Is thi...


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (David C) - 06/26/2009 12:03 PM
Hi Harold,
Thanks for contacting us. As far as we know, we are still spending a lot of effort in Linux driver work. So I doubt that its going away any time soon. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Best regards,
David

Customer (Harrold Hunt) - 06/26/2009 11:57 AM
I heard that linux may not be supported by nvidia for too much longer. Is this true? If so why?
This was my question to customer service of nvidia. What now?

T.J.
June 27th, 2009, 01:05 AM
I intend this with the greatest respect, especially to you, Jolo. You only mean well, and are only concerned for the best. Linux press articles tend to be nothing more than "flamebait", or simply "PR crap". Unlike Windows, Apple or Nvidia, the Linux community as a whole drives Linux, not corporations.

The future isn't written yet. Getting worried about it serves no purpose. With the code being open, we all have a chance to make something better. We don't have to depend on them for support. We don't have to run the corporate "hamster wheel" anymore.


In my view, Nvidia has a responsibility to their shareholders to make a profit, so they will do what they like. Even if they withdraw support, the community will create their own driver. In fact, they already are. As far as Windows is concerned, I think that they have enough irons in the fire of their own. Vista did very poorly, and I have my doubts about Windows 7, given that hardware requirements are twice that of Vista, and everyone's budgets are tight. Apple is harder to guess, given they are a closed monopoly.


Take care!

.Maleficus.
June 27th, 2009, 01:17 AM
As far as Windows is concerned, I think that they have enough irons in the fire of their own. Vista did very poorly, and I have my doubts about Windows 7, given that hardware requirements are twice that of Vista, and everyone's budgets are tight.
Actually, they aren't.

Windows 7 system requirements
1GHz or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1GB RAM (32-bit) / 2GB RAM (64-bit)
16GB available disk space (32-bit) / 20 GB (64-bit)
DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver

1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 GB of system memory
40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space
Support for DirectX 9 graphics with:
WDDM Driver
128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)
Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware
32 bits per pixel
Granted, Home Basic can "run" on 512MB of RAM, but... well, I quoted "run" for a reason ;).

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/offers/pre-order-faq.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/system-requirements.aspx

T.J.
June 27th, 2009, 01:28 AM
Ah I see. Thank you so much for the correction. Apparently, the information I was read was incorrect. Mistakes happen from time to time, especially in the press these days. It's sometimes hard to rely on trade websites, which is (I hope it doesn't sound too pretentious) my point. I'm actually very pleased to hear that because I may consider it at some future date. I love my Linux (favorite - big time), but no operating system can do it all, so I work both sides of the fence for now - especially at work.

Frak
June 27th, 2009, 01:38 AM
I am aware that [Intel is] becoming a threat to Nividia and ATI.

No.


Its a pity more companies aren't like Intel.

Intel, the same company that was fined 1.06 Billion Euros by the EU for paying off companies to not use AMD. I want all my companies to be like them. >.>


Enjoy your flickery, unaccelerated video playback :-P

Rubbish. I watch 1080p on my x1600 AND my x4850. Former with open source drivers, latter with AMD drivers.

Grant A.
June 27th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Intel, the same company that was fined 1.06 Billion Euros by the EU for paying off companies to not use AMD. I want all my companies to be like them. >.>

IMHO, Intel should've been forced to pay that money to AMD, not the EU.



Nvidia doesn't seem to have any contact information on their website that is useful, and their corporate office number requires a PIN. If a company doesn't listen to their customers, I don't want to buy from them anymore, anyways.

philcamlin
June 27th, 2009, 02:04 AM
damn microsoft

hmm linux is getting recognised now !!!

as a big timer :D

well... someone will make drivers :popcorn:

Frak
June 27th, 2009, 02:39 AM
IMHO, Intel should've been forced to pay that money to AMD, not the EU.

+10000000

One of the main reasons AMD is looked down upon in the market is because of dollars being sent to companies to bias one for the other. I hear C2D in commercials like nothing else, but when has somebody REALLY looked at the AMD. My AMD Phenom II X4 is factory clocked at 3.0GHz, I have it OC'd to 4.1GHz with a stable temp of 39-40 degrees Celsius with the stock fan. I can do everything with it that I can do with an Intel, but for less dollars per clock and an ease of overclock-ability. Anybody who says an Intel Quad is easier to overclock or can overclock farther has clearly never tried the beast that is the Phenom II.

/offtopic

.Maleficus.
June 27th, 2009, 02:39 AM
Ah I see. Thank you so much for the correction. Apparently, the information I was read was incorrect. Mistakes happen from time to time, especially in the press these days. It's sometimes hard to rely on trade websites, which is (I hope it doesn't sound too pretentious) my point. I'm actually very pleased to hear that because I may consider it at some future date. I love my Linux (favorite - big time), but no operating system can do it all, so I work both sides of the fence for now - especially at work.
No problem. And I agree with the tech press deal; I almost never trust tech sites anymore, save for places like Tom's Hardware that have been trusted forever. I work both sides of the fence too - for the past 3 weeks or so I've used Windows 7 almost exclusively. It's actually really good. And once again...

/off topic

Skripka
June 27th, 2009, 03:20 AM
+10000000

One of the main reasons AMD is looked down upon in the market is because of dollars being sent to companies to bias one for the other. I hear C2D in commercials like nothing else, but when has somebody REALLY looked at the AMD. My AMD Phenom II X4 is factory clocked at 3.0GHz, I have it OC'd to 4.1GHz with a stable temp of 39-40 degrees Celsius with the stock fan. I can do everything with it that I can do with an Intel, but for less dollars per clock and an ease of overclock-ability. Anybody who says an Intel Quad is easier to overclock or can overclock farther has clearly never tried the beast that is the Phenom II.

/offtopic

I don't disagree with you...but we are past the days where clockspeed is the determiner of CPU performance. A Corei7 at 2.6gHz would likely completely WASTE my and your Overclocked-To-Snot-PhenomII CPUs in just about any old benchmark you care to contrive. That being said-the dollar for performance value is much better on the AMD side of the camp.

Frak
June 27th, 2009, 03:40 AM
A Corei7 at 2.6gHz would likely completely WASTE my and your Overclocked-To-Snot-PhenomII CPUs in just about any old benchmark you care to contrive.

I have one, and frankly, I haven't seen anything spectacular about it. They post these weird numbers for RAM transfers, but IIRC the speeds claimed are impossible to fabricate on current hardware. I have yet to see any supporting evidence that a Core i7 can beat a Phenom II. It may match and may slightly exceed, but I doubt it'd shove AMD's face in the mud. Besides that, I've yet to see anything that couldn't run on my AMD just fine. Any extra clock thereafter is just extraneous.

.Maleficus.
June 27th, 2009, 04:07 AM
I have one, and frankly, I haven't seen anything spectacular about it. They post these weird numbers for RAM transfers, but IIRC the speeds claimed are impossible to fabricate on current hardware. I have yet to see any supporting evidence that a Core i7 can beat a Phenom II. It may match and may slightly exceed, but I doubt it'd shove AMD's face in the mud. Besides that, I've yet to see anything that couldn't run on my AMD just fine. Any extra clock thereafter is just extraneous.
See either link to Tom's Hardware that I posted in this thread (one on page 5 and one on page 7). What are the weird RAM transfers you're talking about?

Frak
June 27th, 2009, 04:35 AM
See either link to Tom's Hardware that I posted in this thread (one on page 5 and one on page 7). What are the weird RAM transfers you're talking about?
Just the GT/s. Besides that, if it's not readily apparent to me, it's non-existent. I don't even care about longevity, since I rebuild every two years. I've yet to see one killer feature of the Core i7 that would make me shell out another grand to buy another. Dollar for Dollar, the AMD suits me perfectly, even if that suit is overalls from how it sounds.