The size of earth compared to other objects in space.

[0per4t0r]

It makes you feel small.

http://i44.tinypic.com/vov2o3.jpg

Discuss.

[y6FgBn)~v]

Imagine the energy released when VY Canis Majoris finally goes nova.

[Eisenwinter]

Spectacular, woah. I didn't think there were stars that were so much larger than The Sun :o

[NightwishFan]

If you like space try the programs Stellarium and Celestia. They are in the repositories. Celestia has GNOME and KDE frontends. Stellarium if you have tried it in the past, it has received major updates.

The sun is actually a lower mid range star, I believe.

[swoll1980]

I wonder what's in the center of the universe.

[billgoldberg]

Spectacular, woah. I didn't think there were stars that were so much larger than The Sun :o

That's basic knowledge.

-------

I don't feel small because other stuff is big.

But I do think it's pretty damn mind boggling to grasp the size of it.


---

I however like this video better on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2cmlhfdxuY

[swoll1980]

If you shined a light in the opposite direction in which the universe was expanding, would it seem to travel faster?

[sim-value]

If tge universe is endless what keeps me of being the Center of it ?

[LowSky]

I wonder what's in the center of the universe.

Me or that is what some people have said to me... I simply doubt it.


Now when you look at this picture what do you think it looks like (answer at the bottom)
http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/21429466-nasa-image.jpg

Although it might look like a stone wall this is actually The Rub' al Khali, one of the largest sand deserts in the world, the picture was taken from space. The Rub' al Khali encompasses most of the southern third of the Arabian Peninsula. It includes parts of Oman, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen. The desert covers an area larger than France.

[LowSky]

size is all relative to were you are. this picture is from the surface of the moon, and the earth looks tiny

http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/25759466-nasa-earthrise.jpg

[Dharmachakra]

Spectacular, woah. I didn't think there were stars that were so much larger than The Sun :o

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out...

[0per4t0r]

If tge universe is endless what keeps me of being the Center of it ?
The universe is not endless, but just so huge it is beyond our comprehension. As time passes, the universe expands even further, getting larger and larger.

[Woormy]

It makes you feel small.

http://i44.tinypic.com/vov2o3.jpg

Discuss.

Those images are obviously Photoshopped. We all know the earth is flat!

[jomiolto]

Me or that is what some people have said to me... I simply doubt it.


Now when you look at this picture what do you think it looks like (answer at the bottom)
http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/21429466-nasa-image.jpg


My first thought was: "ice-cream." :P

[MikeTheC]

We are not even an atom of a silicon molecule of a grain of sand compared to these things, let alone the Milky Way. And you can Simply forget comparing us to the Local Group, or the universe itself.

And yet, in all of that and maybe even more, there's only one of each of us.

[billgoldberg]

If tge universe is endless what keeps me of being the Center of it ?

The fact that it is endless prevents you of being the center of it.

However I'm not sure the Universe is endless.

We all know it began with the big bang.

So that means cannot be endless. Just really vast.

I'm not expert by a long shot on this, but that is just what seems logical.

[Chemical Imbalance]

I wonder what's in the center of the universe.

If there even is a center :-k

[swoll1980]

If there even is a center :-k

The center is where it started. The universe is expanding from the center outwards, so I'm thinking the center is just emptiness now.

[JordyD]

The fact that it is endless prevents you of being the center of it.

However I'm not sure the Universe is endless.

We all know it began with the big bang.

So that means cannot be endless. Just really vast.

I'm not expert by a long shot on this, but that is just what seems logical.

Wikipedia knows! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Universe#Size.2C_age.2C_contents.2C_structure. 2C_and_laws)

[mancha]

We all know it began with the big bang.


Yeh and at one time we all knew the earth was flat, Theory is regularly proven wrong over time in the understanding of things that our prefrontal lobes are too small to grasp and understand.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

The center is where it started. The universe is expanding from the center outwards, so I'm thinking the center is just emptiness now.

Unfortunately, the term "big band" makes people think of a shock wave produced by detonation. That is not an accurate understanding of the "big bang". Expansion is different from what is seen in a detonation shock wave. Imagine putting a lot of dots on a balloon when in is not inflated. Then inflate the balloon, and observe the way the dots behave relative to each other. There will not be an empty space left. I hope this make sense.

[Chilli Bob]

The center is where it started. The universe is expanding from the center outwards, so I'm thinking the center is just emptiness now.

That's not how it works, there is no centre, the universe is expanding "everywhere" (well, in the inter-galactic space mostly, but lets not get technical. ) What that means is that every point has as much claim to being the centre as any other. That is hard to explain, just remember that the universe is not expanding into space, but creating the space as it expands.

[zmjjmz]

I thought the Big Bang Burger bar was at the center.


No, seriously, the universe's shape (at any given instant) is the 4 dimensional analog to a sphere. If you were to scale the dimensions down a degree, i.e. flatworld, you would realize that the center of the universe is, in fact, the beginning of it.

[swoll1980]

That's not how it works, there is no centre, the universe is expanding "everywhere" (well, in the inter-galactic space mostly, but lets not get technical. ) What that means is that every point has as much claim to being the centre as any other. That is hard to explain, just remember that the universe is not expanding into space, but creating the space as it expands.

It's expanding from a point. if you reversed the process it would all come together at a point. This would be the center. No?

[Dharmachakra]

It's expanding from a point. if you reversed the process it would all come together at a point. This would be the center. No?

If it were an ordinary "explosion" that would be true. However, the universe seems to be expanding at the same rate everywhere... which is why physicists use the balloon to describe the expansion. If you blow up the balloon you can't point out the center of expansion because everything is moving away from everything else.

[Chilli Bob]

It's expanding from a point. if you reversed the process it would all come together at a point. This would be the center. No?


It is difficult to picture. The mistake people make is in the way they imagine the big bang. They imagine a highly compressed point of matter floating in space for an indeterminate amount of time, that suddenly explodes, spreading out into space. Then if we could replay it in reverse, it would all go back to that point. The problem with that view is that according to big bang theory, before the big bang there was NO space for the point to float in, and NO time for it to exist in. Both space and time come into existence only after the big bang.

EDIT: Who was it that said of quantum physics, "If you think you understand it, you obviously don't understand it"? The same can apply to the big bang. :-)

[drooze]

If you shined a light in the opposite direction in which the universe was expanding, would it seem to travel faster?

No. Light always travels at c, being the speed of light. No matter what the observer is doing relative to the direction of the light.

For more, see the wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light).

[Dharmachakra]

EDIT: Who was it that said of quantum physics, "If you think you understand it, you obviously don't understand it"? The same can apply to the big bang. :-)

Bohr said something along the lines of ... "Those who are not shocked when they come across quantum theory cannot possibly understand it".

Feynman said something like that too.

[Saint Angeles]

theres a lot of misinformation here...

ok, first of all, the universe is only expanding at the rate God allows it to. the universe was created in 6 days and it was COMPLETE after that. the big bang is a lie... if you don't believe me, maybe you should all read the Holy Bible, which of course is the only book with knowledge on this. scientists are just blasphemers who are working to justify their own sins and yes, the earth is flat so all these pics are obviously photoshopped.

thread closed.

(i'm kidding, i love science!)

[Chemical Imbalance]

theres a lot of misinformation here...

ok, first of all, the universe is only expanding at the rate God allows it to. the universe was created in 6 days and it was COMPLETE after that. the big bang is a lie... if you don't believe me, maybe you should all read the Holy Bible, which of course is the only book with knowledge on this. scientists are just blasphemers who are working to justify their own sins and yes, the earth is flat so all these pics are obviously photoshopped.

thread closed.

(i'm kidding, i love science!)

You forgot that the earth is the center of the Universe. :twisted:

[Dawei87]

last time i checked, the "center" of the universe (or maybe just the point the universe initially began its expansion) is full of comets bigger than planets that fly around and incredible speeds. occasionally one can leave the "center" and travel through the universe...

[swoll1980]

last time i checked, the "center" of the universe (or maybe just the point the universe initially began its expansion) is full of comets bigger than planets that fly around and incredible speeds. occasionally one can leave the "center" and travel through the universe...

I need to get a hold of your telescope.

[Chilli Bob]

last time i checked, the "center" of the universe (or maybe just the point the universe initially began its expansion) is full of comets bigger than planets that fly around and incredible speeds. occasionally one can leave the "center" and travel through the universe...

....uh....ok......:-k

[Grant A.]

Well, to be fair, anything larger than Betelgeuse is going to explode pretty quickly. Betelgeuse itself is only a few million years old, and already a super giant. Also keep in mind that Betelgeuse was smaller before it was a super giant, too.

Poor Orion's going to need major reconstructive surgery after Betelgeuse goes boom. :(

Note: Betelgeuse is supposed to go supernova any day now, if it hasn't already, since Betelgeuse is so far away that the light takes quite some time to reach us.

[MikeTheC]

Here's my question, though... If everything is expanding away from everything else, then why do galaxies collide? For that matter, why is Andromeda Galaxy traveling on a head-on collision with us?

I don't really fundamentally place much faith in any of what science has "determined" simply because we are able to observe and process and even access to little data to really form a cogent theory.

There's simply too much we don't know, and possibly can't even perceive, for us to delude ourselves into thinking we really know anything at all. So much of what we "think" we know is really just guesswork that's managed to work out in some odd fashion. I mean, let's put a fine point on it: We can't even create life ourselves. How do we expect that we can "know" about the Universe?

One of the biggest and most unfortunate issues for us is that there were no witnesses available to document what happened. And without regard to the specifics of my own beliefs (UF rules) if nothing else no higher power has yet come forward to explain what happened, either.

In other words, we're sitting in the non-illumination of ignorance, trying to pretend our way into the light.

[Eisenwinter]

We all know it began with the big bang.
No, you don't know.

You think you know.

Huge difference.

[monsterstack]

Here's my question, though... If everything is expanding away from everything else, then why do galaxies collide? For that matter, why is Andromeda Galaxy traveling on a head-on collision with us?

I don't really fundamentally place much faith in any of what science has "determined" simply because we are able to observe and process and even access to little data to really form a cogent theory.

There's simply too much we don't know, and possibly can't even perceive, for us to delude ourselves into thinking we really know anything at all. So much of what we "think" we know is really just guesswork that's managed to work out in some odd fashion. I mean, let's put a fine point on it: We can't even create life ourselves. How do we expect that we can "know" about the Universe?

One of the biggest and most unfortunate issues for us is that there were no witnesses available to document what happened. And without regard to the specifics of my own beliefs (UF rules) if nothing else no higher power has yet come forward to explain what happened, either.

In other words, we're sitting in the non-illumination of ignorance, trying to pretend our way into the light.

We simply have to go with what we reckon is the best explanation. The stuff that Newton worked out has basically been superseded by things such as relativity and quantum theory, but it doesn't make Newton wrong, per se. His physics still allowed us to put men on the moon. The only thing different is that the newer stuff explains more than Newton's ideas ever could. And that allowed us to make microchips and transistors and lasers and microwaves and so on. Eventually, someone will come along with an even better explanation of how it all works (maybe superstring theory, or maybe quantum gravity, who knows), which will allow us to do many more cool things. Will we ever really know everything? I doubt that. But it doesn't hurt to try.

[NightwishFan]

I could say why argue about physics when I should say why not argue about physics. :D

[MikeTheC]

We simply have to go with what we reckon is the best explanation. <snip>
Ok, don't get me wrong. I don't think that we should try to somehow keep our knowledge level "static" in any way.

My concern though is about this sort of arrogance I see which is an overblowing of what we really do know. Let me give you a tangental example.

We know about lift, and we know about drag and basically lots of stuff generally about flight. However, humans are not -- and will never be -- capable of flight. We can make devices that allow us to be airborne, and we can control them and get from A to B. But we ourselves as a species will never fly.

Yet the way we act sometimes, it's as though we think we're so good we can fly anyhow.

[NightwishFan]

Humans may think they can fly in space, however the Zerg have mastered the art of warp travel for many millenia. For the Overmind!

[jespdj]

I wonder what's in the center of the universe.

The center is where it started. The universe is expanding from the center outwards, so I'm thinking the center is just emptiness now.
The universe has no center, and the universe is not expanding into "nothingness" from a central point. All the space there is, that IS the universe. The Big Bang happened everywhere at the same time, and space itself is being created all the time everywhere. But on "small" scales, you can't see it happen. (And with "small" I mean the size of galaxy clusters!).

It's hard to imagine, but think of the following equivalent, but in two instead of three dimensions: the surface of a balloon.

The surface of a balloon has no center. If you blow the balloon up, the surface will get larger. But not from a central point on the two dimensional surface. It gets larger at all points on the surface. You could draw dots on the balloon, and you'd see that all dots move away from each other when you blow up the balloon.

The universe is something like that, but in three dimensions. We see galaxies move away in all directions, just like the dots on the balloon. If you'd be in another galaxy, you'd still see all galaxies move away from you.

[Nautilus112]

Install stellarium through synaptic

[monsterstack]

Ok, don't get me wrong. I don't think that we should try to somehow keep our knowledge level "static" in any way.

My concern though is about this sort of arrogance I see which is an overblowing of what we really do know. Let me give you a tangental example.

We know about lift, and we know about drag and basically lots of stuff generally about flight. However, humans are not -- and will never be -- capable of flight. We can make devices that allow us to be airborne, and we can control them and get from A to B. But we ourselves as a species will never fly.

Yet the way we act sometimes, it's as though we think we're so good we can fly anyhow.

Arrogance is one of those things that affects everybody to some degree or other, I suppose. Here's a fun fact: scientific theories are rarely adopted or believed as soon as they appear. What happens is that the proponents of the older theories eventually die. Einstein railed against the uncertainty that comes with quantum theory till his dying days, for instance.


Install stellarium through synaptic

One of my favourite applications. Really cool stuff. Kstars is also quite good.

[swoll1980]

All I know is that if a universe can appear out of know where, from a dot, then there are probably trillions^trillions, or even infinite numbers of them.

[Chemical Imbalance]

All I know is that if a universe can appear out of know where, from a dot, then there are probably trillions^trillions, or even infinite numbers of them.

Parallel universes. I believe its called M Theory.

[bwitherell]

If you shined a light in the opposite direction in which the universe was expanding, would it seem to travel faster?

The universe is expanding in all directions. But I guess if you could the light would change color because the wave lengths would get compressed. Opposite affect of Red Shift. I don't know too much about this stuff but I bet you could find out more if you googled red shift.

[bwitherell]

If it were an ordinary "explosion" that would be true. However, the universe seems to be expanding at the same rate everywhere... which is why physicists use the balloon to describe the expansion. If you blow up the balloon you can't point out the center of expansion because everything is moving away from everything else.

That is the currently accepted idea. However, this idea is coming from our very limited view of the universe. We really have no way of knowing and we may never know for sure if the universe does or does not have a center or if it is expanding at the same rate everywhere. All we know is what we can see and the percentage of the universe that we can see is infinitely small due to the constant expansion. (If it even is expanding. It might be that only the stuff we can see is expanding. We will never really know for sure.) :confused:

You were right to say that the universe seems to be expanding at the same rate everywhere.

[Dharmachakra]

I remember Michio Kaku saying something about teaching a dog calculus. You simply can't do it. Their brains aren't wired to understand something like that.

He then went on to say that he believes humans are wired to understand the intricacies of the universe. I don't really buy that just yet. But, then again, who's to say?

Gonna have to agree with Feynamn again... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-KzVwu6es)

[monsterstack]

Install stellarium through synaptic


I remember Michio Kaku saying something about teaching a dog calculus. You simply can't do it. Their brains aren't wired to understand something like that.

He then went on to say that he believes humans are wired to understand the intricacies of the universe. I don't really buy that just yet. But, then again, who's to say?

Gonna have to agree with Feynamn again... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-KzVwu6es)

It's an interesting one. After all, there's a whole branch of philosophy that deals with the problem of language: do we have the necessary language to understand certain really hard concepts? Are some things unknowable because we lack the skills to represent them through language? It's not something I want to dive into and explore, really.

But humans are capable of thinking about things in very interesting ways. Everybody here is familiar with imaginary numbers, for instance (anyone who's ever gone overdrawn will be very familiar with them indeed!), and that's a completely bizarre concept when you think about it. A lot of stuff in physics makes perfect sense when represented as pure maths, and the scientists who work on these problems often disagree passionately about how to interpret them.

Still, the idea that there are some things we won't ever know seems normal to us now, but it is precisely that concept which made people like Cantor lose their minds.

[0per4t0r]

Install stellarium through synaptic
I prefer Celestia. http://shatters.net/celestia/

[NightwishFan]

They have different aims. Celestia is a 3d space simulation, and Stellarium is more like a 'night sky' simulation. I use both.

[keplerspeed]

IT would be nice to have a integration of google earth, stellarium, celestia all together..

Grasping the idea of the size of the earth within the visible universe is so difficult as it is sometimes difficult just to grasp the shear size of earth compared to the size of a soccer ball for example.

[MikeTheC]

I want to win the Galactic Lottery.

*hmm... decides to buy Jupiter*

*ca-ching!*

[0per4t0r]

The universe's growth is disturbing. Because, there's a theory that states that the universe may become so massive that the expansion of space reverses, and time flows backwards until the universe recollapses, ultimately ending as a black hole. But, it's highly unlikely. It's called the big crunch.

[heyyy]

well... size doesnt matter after all

[lisati]

I wonder what's in the center of the universe.


If tge universe is endless what keeps me of being the Center of it ?

To the above, and others who have touched on the subject of what's at the centre of the universe: Mrs Lisati, our neighbour and myself share the responsibility of being the centre of the universe, and occasionally take on the responsibility of being the universe.


(/me wanders off in search of medication bag to see if there's something there that will help ease the pressure. Great disappointment to discover that there's only pills to help with a heart condition and diabetes-related issues. Not even a little blue pill. Sigh. Dreams are free!)

[tcturner]

if you shined a light in the opposite direction in which the universe was expanding, would it seem to travel faster?

sorry nothing travels faster than the speed of light.