The way NOT to help someone.

[kd0afk]

This is the way not to help someone:
The thread is started;
"I am having problems with XXX"
and someone right off the bat (within minutes) posts;
"Have you tried this....?"
The thread starter posts;
"I tried that and it didn't work"
A few minutes pass.....
A few hours pass.....
A few days pass.....
Weeks pass.....
Can you hear the crickets? Do you get the point?

If I knew half as much as many of the people on this forum, I would do my best to help someone fix what is wrong if I knew how to do so. I am trying to learn and hopefully in the future, I will be able to make a difference.

[Therion]

... Do you get the point?
I confess I don't, actually...

[Legace]

If I knew half as much as many of the people on this forum, I would do my best to help someone fix what is wrong if I knew how to do so. I am trying to learn and hopefully in the future, I will be able to make a difference.

Yes, and if someone would know the answer to a question they'd probably leave a message.. If there is a question people don't know the answer to, there is no point in posting "Sorry, can't help." messages, is there?

[jerrrys]

try using a four letter word on your OP

bump

[ZackM]

Well, I can say that if I'm helping someone with an issue (or trying to) I stay on the page until the issue is resolved, or if someone else takes over with a better idea. I try to make sure people are satisfied before I quit looking.

[kd0afk]

I confess I don't, actually...

Judging by the "help" I have received lately, that doesn't surprise me at all.

Let me simplify;
One person replies with a possible solution and then never follows up, (hence the cricket reference).

[khelben1979]

Since this is a forum where there are most volunteers which does all the help, I don't think you or anyone else really can make demands on how things is supposed to be done. Guidelines do exist, though afaik, but no real demands.

Each time I help someone I unfortunately am not always able to help the person so it reaches success, so the thread dies if no one else picks it up afterwards.

[kd0afk]

Well, I can say that if I'm helping someone with an issue (or trying to) I stay on the page until the issue is resolved, or if someone else takes over with a better idea. I try to make sure people are satisfied before I quit looking.

Good deal. Thanks on behalf of all noobs.

[talkingwires]

That describes most of my Launchpad bug reports...

[kd0afk]

Since this is a forum where there are most volunteers which does all the help, I don't think you or anyone else really can make demands on how things is supposed to be done. Guidelines do exist, though afaik, but no real demands.

Each time I help someone I unfortunately am not always able to help the person so it reaches success, so the thread dies if no one else picks it up afterwards.

Then why even have a reply button? Why not just reply to peoples help issues via email or PM? If you are going to volunteer then do it. If you volunteer help and that help turns out not to solve the problem, then follow up with a simple "sorry, that was the best I could do"

[ZackM]

Good deal. Thanks on behalf of all noobs.

Haha no problem. We all start off as noobs. We all need help from time to time, and I know what it's like to have a thread die on me. (From other forums. This one I haven't had a problem with yet) But, do realize that most people here generally do want to help you, but the problem may be out of their range of knowledge. They could also be looking up solutions for you as well, given the time delay. It all varies at times, but you'll find most will help you as best they can. :)

[kd0afk]

try using a four letter word on your OP

bump

When you use bump then you get scolded.

[kd0afk]

Yes, and if someone would know the answer to a question they'd probably leave a message.. If there is a question people don't know the answer to, there is no point in posting "Sorry, can't help." messages, is there?
And no, a message from everyone saying "sorry, can't help" would be silly.

[Therion]

Judging by the "help" I have received lately, that doesn't surprise me at all.
Niiiiiice...


Let me simplify;
One person replies with a possible solution and then never follows up, (hence the cricket reference).
Allow me to explain then, that these forums move fast. Many a time I've offered a simple suggestion or requested output from a command - say a paste-up of a file, for instance - and then waited for that information. And waited... And... Waited.

The waiting game is a sword that cuts both ways my friend.

If you don't like the free support you're receiving here from the people who, most likely, have a long list of things they COULD be doing instead of trying to help you with your issue, you can always opt to pay for it.

[Cheesemill]

When you use bump then you get scolded.

Only if you bump more than once every 24 hours (as set out in the forum rules).

[LowSky]

to be fair many issues can be solved if the question's keyword is googled with the word ubuntu added for good measure
for instance an example:

A new User creates a non descript title like WIFI HELP!!!111!
then writes in the Post:
My wifi doesn't work, but it does in Windows, please help
someone responds with


What Model is the WIFI card

the OP response is


I dont know, its a "enter name brand laptop" but no model number given

someone else says please post the output of this comand in a terminal


lspci

the OP responds


how do I do that?

Another says
open a teminal.... you get the point...

and yet this is posted every few hours on the forum, taking up webspace and annoying others with more ligitamite questions that get moved quickly to the second and third pages of the forum when the person could use google to look up the answer (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ubuntu+wifi) and easily get that answer rather than wait for a response.

Sometimes I think people rather have others fix their problems, rather than learn to do it themselves

[kd0afk]

Niiiiiice...


And waited... And... Waited.


I think there is an option to get instant email notification on replies. That is how I knew that you replied.

[Amilo1718]

Sometimes I think people rather have others fix their problems, rather than learn to do it themselves
qft

[ZackM]

Well the guy I'm trying to help doesn't have that setup apparently... I asked him something about his Vaio laptop 36 minutes ago... And no response. :(

[brewbie]

As many have said before it's also really helpful if the OP tells everyone the specifics of the problem, as well as what they have done to fix it thus far. Simply saying this or that does not work is not really helpful. Giving a good description of the issue is always the best. List the steps that you took to resolve the issue, "I have already used the sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start commands" etc etc so on so on. Also listing the specific error messages that you are getting, what is it doing? What does it say? etc etc. :idea:

Most of the guys and gals on this forum are super helpful when you help them with giving the specifics.

[Elfy]

Moved to testimonials and experiences.

[Therion]

Sometimes I think people rather have others fix their problems, rather than learn to do it themselves
The nail. You hit it squarely on the head.

Yet telling a poster to "google it" (the solution) is forbidden by The Powers That Be (even when that really WOULD be the best thing to do) so personally, when I run across that situation, I bail on the thread.

Sorry, but I help people who are willing to help themselves first. I don't need, or care about, the post count and I'm not willing to hand hold a poster, click-by-click, through installing their ATI Restricted-driver from source.

[kd0afk]

qft
With certain issues, when I do a search, the only thing I find is pages and pages of web pages where people are asking the same questions as me and getting no replies.

Quantum Field Theory?

[kd0afk]

The nail. You hit it squarely on the head.

Yet telling a poster to "google it" (the solution) is forbidden by The Powers That Be (even when that really WOULD be the best thing to do) so personally, when I run across that situation, I bail on the thread.

Sorry, but I help people who are willing to help themselves first. I don't need, or care about, the post count and I'm not willing to hand hold a poster, click-by-click, through installing their ATI Restricted-driver from source.

How does the old saying go?
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Ignore him and maybe he'll go away"
There's a signature for ya'.

[Amilo1718]

Quantum Field Theory?
no chaos theory ;)
imo linux stands for a creative mind... & boxing it in doesn't do good

[Therion]

With certain issues, when I do a search, the only thing I find is pages and pages of web pages where people are asking the same questions as me and getting no replies.
A good indicator that there is no known answer.


Quantum Field Theory?
Quality French Truffles.

[mohanadst]

to be fair many issues can be solved if the question's keyword is googled with the word ubuntu added for good measure
for instance an example:

A new User creates a non descript title like WIFI HELP!!!111!
then writes in the Post:
someone responds with



the OP response is



someone else says please post the output of this comand in a terminal


the OP responds



Another says you get the point...

and yet this is posted every few hours on the forum, taking up webspace and annoying others with more ligitamite questions that get moved quickly to the second and third pages of the forum when the person could use google to look up the answer (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ubuntu+wifi) and easily get that answer rather than wait for a response.

Sometimes I think people rather have others fix their problems, rather than learn to do it themselves

LOOL .. the problem is the people do not want to think may be! they want to take the whole solution without even a little hard effort in google! may be you need to put a rule of that .. silly Q must be Deleted cause who ask silly Q did you think he/she can move forward or all the time he/she will ask and ask and ask ..

[kd0afk]

A good indicator that there is no known answer.


Quality French Truffles.

I am sorry, I refuse to accept that. For instance, one of my posts is asking how to change the settings on my Intel graphics card. There is a help page on it and it gives scads of options and commands but doesn't tell how to get into the program that allows a person to use those options. This is just one example of what I am talking about. I am not asking people how to do things like make Photshop run in Linux without wine or something like that. It is simple configuration stuff that unfortunately I just don't know how to do at this point.

[kd0afk]

LOOL .. the problem is the people do not want to think may be! they want to take the whole solution without even a little hared effort in google! may be you need to put a rule of that .. silly Q must be Deleted cause who ask silly Q did you think he/she can move forward or all the time he/she will ask and ask and ask ..

:confused:

[raymondh]

Let me chime in here ... possibly KdOafk may be referring to me.... if so,

Yes, I did respond to a thread posted by kd0afk entilted "upgrade questions"

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1188221

where he was asking....

My question is, if an upgrade is going to downgrade a pretty important part of a laptop or desktop computer, namely the graphics (if graphics weren't important then why don't we just go back to DOS) why is it released before ALL of the effects on the graphics are investigated and tested clean

From thereon, the thread evolved to

I like the program Blender and it worked when I tried the live cd of 9.04 but when I installed it, it messed up. NOBODY has replied to my thread about it but that is a whole other bitch I have. I've been trying to get it fixed for about a month now.

I then offered to look at his previous thread ... with no guarantees except I would give it a try.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7461863#post7461863

Post 7 & 8 of the 'UPGRADE' thread was when I asked him what fixes has he done so far and to which he replied "he is following the jaunty intel guide ... he is still trying to change settings on his graphics card"

Wanting to get more information, I then offered to look into launchpad to see if the bug has been fixed .... I also said that I had to log-off to attend to my kids.

That was 22hrs ago...

To Kd0afk,

If you are posting this thread in reference to me ... I respect your opinion/s and understand your frustration.

Like I said, I promised to try and continue trying.

I will not, however, give you my undivided attention unless you happen to be my child.

If you are posting this thread with regard to the 'Blender Display Problems' thread, I also understand your frustration and continue to give you my best despite my limited knowledge.... as well as apolgize for posting a reply in this thread.

Have a good day.

[Therion]

I am sorry, I refuse to accept that. For instance, one of my posts is asking how to change the settings on my Intel graphics card. There is a help page on it and it gives scads of options and commands but doesn't tell how to get into the program that allows a person to use those options.
I've reviewed the thread in question. A couple of things to point out.

1. Your Intel graphics solution is not a video card. It's an integrated graphics chipset.

2. The application to which you refer is the script referred to (and provided for you via the link) in Part A, Step 2 of the tutorial:
2. Download Bartec's fixmtrr.sh script and make it executable:
The instructions, really, are rather explicit.

[Bios Element]

Simply put, If you don't like the help you get, don't ask for it. If people can't figure something out, they won't post. Why would anyone want to admit they don't know something when they can simply not post? It's human nature to want to know everything and yet that's an impossible feat.

Now on the other hand if you want to pay me 7 dollars an hour...Then I'll spend my time holding your hand through it... :popcorn:

[Therion]

Now on the other hand if you want to pay me 7 25* dollars an hour...Then I'll spend my time holding your hand through it...

Quality French Truffles!







/Not for $7/hr though.
//* Fixed that for you...

[kd0afk]

Let me chime in here ... possibly KdOafk may be referring to me.... if so,

Yes, I did respond to a thread posted by kd0afk entilted "upgrade questions"

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1188221

where he was asking....

My question is, if an upgrade is going to downgrade a pretty important part of a laptop or desktop computer, namely the graphics (if graphics weren't important then why don't we just go back to DOS) why is it released before ALL of the effects on the graphics are investigated and tested clean

From thereon, the thread evolved to

I like the program Blender and it worked when I tried the live cd of 9.04 but when I installed it, it messed up. NOBODY has replied to my thread about it but that is a whole other bitch I have. I've been trying to get it fixed for about a month now.

I then offered to look at his previous thread ... with no guarantees except I would give it a try.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7461863#post7461863

Post 7 & 8 of the 'UPGRADE' thread was when I asked him what fixes has he done so far and to which he replied "he is following the jaunty intel guide ... he is still trying to change settings on his graphics card"

Wanting to get more information, I then offered to look into launchpad to see if the bug has been fixed .... I also said that I had to log-off to attend to my kids.

That was 22hrs ago...

To Kd0afk,

If you are posting this thread in reference to me ... I respect your opinion/s and understand your frustration.

Like I said, I promised to try and continue trying.

I will not, however, give you my undivided attention unless you happen to be my child.

If you are posting this thread with regard to the 'Blender Display Problems' thread, I also understand your frustration and continue to give you my best despite my limited knowledge.... as well as apolgize for posting a reply in this thread.

Have a good day.

Wasn't you I am refering to. I am refering to these two threads:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7468232#post7468232
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1187268

[ghen]

Hmm, if someone was handing me a dollar bill every 10 minutes to fix their computer I'd totally do it just for the novelty.

[kd0afk]

Simply put, If you don't like the help you get, don't ask for it. If people can't figure something out, they won't post. Why would anyone want to admit they don't know something when they can simply not post? It's human nature to want to know everything and yet that's an impossible feat.

Now on the other hand if you want to pay me 7 dollars an hour...Then I'll spend my time holding your hand through it... :popcorn:

I have gotten really good advice and help on this forum but what I am talking about it when NOBODY replies, When there is no help to dislike.

[kd0afk]

Now on the other hand if you want to pay me 7 dollars an hour...Then I'll spend my time holding your hand through it... :popcorn:
McDonald employees make more than $7/hr.:)

[aysiu]

There isn't a problem here with the help.

1. If you think the issue is your thread getting buried too quickly, bump it after a day or two. A "bump" is just when you post back in your thread again to push it to the top of the most recent threads. It is inconsiderate to bump too often or too soon, but after 24 hours, that's fine to bump and just get it in people's view again.

2. If you think people are offering vague instructions, just post back and ask for clarification. "I don't know how to make a file executable. Can you explain to me how to do it?"

3. If you think there are knowledgeable people who just refuse to be helpful, well, then I disagree with you. Usually if people don't help you, it's because your problem is too difficult to solve or too obscure a problem. If you don't believe me, check out the unanswered threads some time. But even if there did exist people who could solve every problem imagineable but they just refused to do so... well, that's their right. It's a volunteer forum. People help as much as they want to. Luckily for us, most people on these forums do want to help and do so in a very friendly manner.

So what's the problem? Are you not bumping enough? Is your problem too obscure? Or are you not asking for clarification when help is confusing?

[robert shearer]

telling a poster to "google it" (the solution) is forbidden by The Powers That Be

well, it is sensibly discouraged...
after all the questor has come to the Ubuntu forums for help with Ubuntu.

However, when their query is 'ill defined' (as newcomers often are.. remember yours when you were new ? some of mine make me cringe now;))
then the guide to using the forums also states that the forum search engine is 'less than good' and encourages searchers to enter
site:ubuntuforums.org <searchterm>
into a Google search bar.

This satisfys both requirements
a) doesn't leave the O/P out to dry in google-land..
and b)encourages newcomers to read posts that have discussion on their concerns and solutions that may have been raised already.

Try it,
site:ubuntuforums.org hear the crickets
or
site:ubuntuforums.org change the settings on my Intel graphics card

[khelben1979]

Then why even have a reply button? Why not just reply to peoples help issues via email or PM?

Because then it will not be available for anyone else which is interested to read about it.


If you are going to volunteer then do it. If you volunteer help and that help turns out not to solve the problem, then follow up with a simple "sorry, that was the best I could do"

If I feel like it, I'll do it.

[Sef]

moved to community cafe.

[init1]

Sometimes people can help, sometimes not. All depends on your question and who reads it.

[Shibblet]

My absolute favorite is...

Statement: "I need help with XXX."
Reply: "Doesn't do that to me."

[evermooingcow]

Then why even have a reply button? Why not just reply to peoples help issues via email or PM? If you are going to volunteer then do it. If you volunteer help and that help turns out not to solve the problem, then follow up with a simple "sorry, that was the best I could do"
Is this how some feel about the free tech support people offer in their own free time?

The one who offered advice should not need to apologize at all..instead the OP should be the one who follows up with a "Thank you for your suggestion but it didn't work" comment.

At least people are even willing to try to help for free..

[overdrank]

Wasn't you I am refering to. I am refering to these two threads:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7468232#post7468232
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1187268

Since you posted a thread I responded in, I did converse with you via pm explaining to you that I do not have a intel system nor do I use blender so I can not help. :(

[arcdrag]

Everytime I've had a problem using Linux, I've been able to get help from someone in the community within minutes. If its a somewhat minor problem that google can't seem to answer for you, hop on IRC on one of the many Ubuntu or linux channels and ask there.

If its a somewhat elaborate problem, then create a post on here about it. Generally if someone that knows how to help you reads your thread, then they will post the solution. If no one replies, its simply because no one that knows the answer to your problem has read your post.

[HermanAB]

Actually, even a 'it works for me' post can be helpful, since it shows that it *can* work you just have to keep hacking away and keep reading man pages, vs 'sorry dude, that is broken for me too' which may imply that there is no solution to the problem.

[RiceMonster]

This thread baffles me. The OP is accusing people of refusing to help because his/her question didn't get answered? How many times do people need to point out that nobody knew the answer? So your question was not answered. Yeah, that sucks, but big whoop, you aren't the only person who's had a problem nobody available knows how to fix. What, should everyone reply and say "oh, sorry I don't know"?

idk, maybe I just got trolled.

[swoll1980]

If you want to know how not to help someone, just RTFM, or better yet, Google it!

[Shibblet]

Everytime I've had a problem using Linux, I've been able to get help from someone in the community within minutes.

Amen Brother! I'd never have picked Ubuntu up if it wasn't for the community.

[kd0afk]

My absolute favorite is...

Statement: "I need help with XXX."
Reply: "Doesn't do that to me."

I am getting better at my questioning. I remember when I posted the vague questions like that though.

[lisati]

There's a kncak to making a useful comment even when you don't have a specific answer to someone's question. Sometimes an answer that doesn't specifically fix the problem is better than no answer, which is why I have a comment in my signature about patience being a virtue: someone else with a better insight into the situation might notice the bumped thread and come up with a better suggestion.

[Cammy]

I sometimes have this problem on a web developers forum that I frequent. I have to say that it's really annoying to see the following:

Views: 324 . . . . . Replies: 0

It happens a lot, but I figure that if no one else can solve the problem, then it must be really complex and I shouldn't feel bad that I can't figure it out myself. If that makes any sense.

[gn2]

A few days pass.....
Weeks pass.....


During which time the OP will be free to continue to look for a solution elsewhere.

[Viva]

I understand OP's frustration, but I also understand that most of the users here are volunteers and regular users just like you.