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imlinux
June 14th, 2009, 12:47 PM
opera making some bold claims about reinventing web (http://www.opera.com/freedom/),they haven't revealed it yet what it is ? any one here can guess whats going on?

froggyswamp
June 14th, 2009, 01:22 PM
I think either version 10 goes final or the browser goes open source.

Sealbhach
June 14th, 2009, 01:28 PM
Sounds exciting!

.

fatality_uk
June 14th, 2009, 01:38 PM
We start our little story with the invention of the modern day computer.
Over the years, the computers grew in numbers, and the next natural step in the evolution was to connect them together. To share things.
But as these little networks grew, some computers gained more power than the rest and called themselves servers ...


Welcome to the Cloud Opera style

estyles
June 15th, 2009, 04:30 PM
I just heard about this today, and I'm really curious what they're talking about. Guess we'll find out tomorrow. I'm sure it'll be a disappointment, though. It's always a disappointment when there's so much hype over new tech. Remember how the SEGWAY would revolutionize transportation, and how cities would be built with this new mode of travel in mind? Yeah, that happened... :rolleyes:

Kimm
June 15th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I think either version 10 goes final or the browser goes open source.

considering the link says http://www.opera.com/freedom/ that second point you made might just be true! (though, it does sound to good to be true)

Cenotaph
June 15th, 2009, 06:07 PM
Maybe they are releasing an Opera lightweight OS to browse the web without Windows/OS X/Linux? :p

estyles
June 16th, 2009, 02:41 PM
So it turns out it's an integrated web server... On the one hand - it's not like anyone with a web connection can't set up a web server already. There's the issue of dynamic IP's, but that's not insurmountable.

On the other hand, it does sound interesting, and depending on how it's integrated could be pretty useful. I think they may have hit the perfect balance of not completely over-hyping and not completely under-delivering...

billgoldberg
June 16th, 2009, 02:52 PM
So it turns out it's an integrated web server... On the one hand - it's not like anyone with a web connection can't set up a web server already. There's the issue of dynamic IP's, but that's not insurmountable.

On the other hand, it does sound interesting, and depending on how it's integrated could be pretty useful. I think they may have hit the perfect balance of not completely over-hyping and not completely under-delivering...

Lol.

The other day my brother in law called to ask how to copy files to a hard drive.

He couldn't set up a web server if his life depended on it.

Skripka
June 16th, 2009, 02:55 PM
Lol.

The other day my brother in law called to ask how to copy files to a hard drive.

He couldn't set up a web server if his life depended on it.

Yea...most folks can't.

estyles
June 16th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Lol.

The other day my brother in law called to ask how to copy files to a hard drive.

He couldn't set up a web server if his life depended on it.

He's physically capable of setting up a web server. It might take some effort and research, which most people are not willing to put in when it comes to a computer, but nothing's stopping him... :D

However, if Opera's new deal makes it possible for the brother-in-laws and grandmas of the world to serve web content, that just might fulfil their boastful claim of reinventing the web. Now, the question is... is that a good thing? :confused:

piousp
June 16th, 2009, 03:14 PM
I'm downloading it right now

Regenweald
June 16th, 2009, 03:16 PM
Yea...most folks can't.

Never needed one at home, so i can't either. Unite looks like it could rock, screw the cloud.

Skripka
June 16th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Never needed one at home, so i can't either. Unite looks like it could rock, screw the cloud.

What will be interesting to see, is if this feature makes it into the mainstream O10 builds, and the final, and presuming some popularity--what will educational institutions/corp IT do about it? Most IT departments anywhere have strict rules prohibiting the set-up and usage of "rogue" servers on their networks.

rookcifer
June 16th, 2009, 03:28 PM
Open-source it or I don't use it.

DemonParasite
June 16th, 2009, 04:24 PM
Open-source it or I don't use it.

What benefit does open source give you specifically that stops you from using anything else?

Simian Man
June 16th, 2009, 04:45 PM
What benefit does open source give you specifically that stops you from using anything else?

The ability to be a self-righteous punk?

This looks pretty cool. Seems like it would be tricky to get it working across several platforms with dynamic IPs, port forwarding and firewalls though...

Viva
June 16th, 2009, 05:23 PM
Opera is overrated. Real player of the browsers

DeadSuperHero
June 16th, 2009, 05:30 PM
What benefit does open source give you specifically that stops you from using anything else?

Hey now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to use FOSS software on your desktop! It's quite nice to poke inside the code of your favorite browser/desktop/widget/etc and tweak it for your own needs!

To me, it's not being self-righteous. Part of the reason many people migrate to GNU/Linux systems is because it consists largely of Free Software, can be ported to many platforms, etc.

On another note, does the new Opera support the HTML5 <video> tag yet?

tcoffeep
June 16th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Opera Unite is a unique technology that turns any computer or device running Opera into a Web server. In other words, your computer (running Opera Unite) is truly part of the fabric of the Web, rather than just interacting with it, and it’s something anyone can use. With Opera Unite, everyday non-technical users can serve and share content and services directly from their own computers in the form of intuitive applications. That sounds kind of cool from a technology point of view, but what can you do with it, and why is it important?

With Opera Unite, we are giving developers a chance to develop applications (known as Opera Unite services) that directly link people’s personal computers together, so that you can connect with one or more of your friends at the same time. It all happens through the browser, so no additional software has to be downloaded, and it will work wherever Opera works (Windows, Mac, Linux, and later mobile phones and other devices). Opera provides the platform and you provide the applications—what you create is limited only by your imagination. We believe Opera Unite will redefine what’s possible with Web applications, and we invite you to join us in moving beyond stale ideas and limitations.


That actually sounds kind of cool. But I use firefox and won't bother :P

|{urse
June 16th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Cloud computing is where it's all headed. Opera unite is trying to serve up the first "dish" , so to speak. When cloud computing becomes standard people wont be saying "Hey, i need to get Opera unite" they'll be saying "Hey how do i get my favorite browser to do this?". At that time if Opera is the only company offering the service (trust and believe they wont be the only one) Then they get true market viability and hopefully the majority of cloud-capable webserver market shares.

Skripka
June 16th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Cloud computing is where it's all headed. Opera unite is trying to serve up the first "dish" , so to speak. When cloud computing becomes standard people wont be saying "Hey, i need to get Opera unite" they'll be saying "Hey how do i get my favorite browser to do this?". At that time if Opera is the only company offering the service (trust and believe they wont be the only one) Then they get true market viability and hopefully the majority of cloud-capable webserver market shares.

Don't worry. With anti-net-neutrality, bandwidth caps etc--cloud computing isn't going anywhere.

estyles
June 16th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Here's a pretty good description from some guy at Opera...
http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/06/16/

Notice where he talks about Opera Jukebox? How is that even remotely likely to avoid RIAA prosecution? I mean, sharing a few songs with friends who might want to listen is totally reasonable, and certainly likely to sell *more* music instead of costing sales. But 1) how can they police it to make sure it's *just* sharing a few songs with friends, and 2) even if they can, what are the chances that the RIAA will say, "oh yeah, that's cool, go ahead," rather than sue Opera and any users they can pin down for $150K per song? (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/sony-lawyer-150k-damages-per-song-certainly-appropriate.ars)

And yes, we've all heard the "it's just a service, they can't be held responsible for how people misuse it" excuse. I, for one, agree with it 100%, but that didn't stop Napster from getting sued back into the stone age...

(Remember kids, letting anyone else listen to your CDs is stealing!)
(What the hell, do kids even know what a CD is anymore?)

timjohn7
June 16th, 2009, 07:49 PM
I've just downloaded, installed and activated some of the services offered.
Flawless, simple and effective. Not Open Source, but certainly free and for one of the billions who couldn't set up a Web Server without LOTS of research, training and experience, it looks like a great solution. Admittedly, early days, but so far, so good.
I also agree that most other browsers will follow suit, but for the moment, Opera 10 kicks butt.

DemonParasite
June 16th, 2009, 07:56 PM
Hey now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to use FOSS software on your desktop! It's quite nice to poke inside the code of your favorite browser/desktop/widget/etc and tweak it for your own needs!

To me, it's not being self-righteous. Part of the reason many people migrate to GNU/Linux systems is because it consists largely of Free Software, can be ported to many platforms, etc.

On another note, does the new Opera support the HTML5 <video> tag yet?

There isn't anything wrong with it, but choosing one browser over another for the sole reason that you can mess around with the source code is stupid.


Here's a pretty good description from some guy at Opera...
http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/06/16/

Notice where he talks about Opera Jukebox? How is that even remotely likely to avoid RIAA prosecution? I mean, sharing a few songs with friends who might want to listen is totally reasonable, and certainly likely to sell *more* music instead of costing sales. But 1) how can they police it to make sure it's *just* sharing a few songs with friends, and 2) even if they can, what are the chances that the RIAA will say, "oh yeah, that's cool, go ahead," rather than sue Opera and any users they can pin down for $150K per song? (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/sony-lawyer-150k-damages-per-song-certainly-appropriate.ars)

And yes, we've all heard the "it's just a service, they can't be held responsible for how people misuse it" excuse. I, for one, agree with it 100%, but that didn't stop Napster from getting sued back into the stone age...

(Remember kids, letting anyone else listen to your CDs is stealing!)
(What the hell, do kids even know what a CD is anymore?)

But you can't download the songs, only listen to them. This is what stops YouTube, Myspace, and other sites where you can listen to songs for free from being taken down. You can only listen to it on their website, you can't do anything else with it. As long as the Jukbox feature doesn't allow downloads, it should be fine.

Riffer
June 16th, 2009, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=DemonParasite;
But you can't download the songs, only listen to them. This is what stops YouTube, Myspace, and other sites where you can listen to songs for free from being taken down. You can only listen to it on their website, you can't do anything else with it. As long as the Jukbox feature doesn't allow downloads, it should be fine.[/QUOTE]

Antbar?

Viva
June 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM
There isn't anything wrong with it, but choosing one browser over another for the sole reason that you can mess around with the source code is stupid.


You are assuming that most users who use opensource software mess around with the source code. In addition to the philosophical reasons, bugs in open source software tend to be fixed easily and customizing is easier.

DemonParasite
June 16th, 2009, 08:27 PM
You are assuming that most users who use opensource software mess around with the source code. In addition to the philosophical reasons, bugs in open source software tend to be fixed easily and customizing is easier.

I'm aware that most people who use OSS don't even look at the source code. Firefox also had 3 times the vulnerabilities that Opera/IE/Safari had last year, although, like you said, they were fixed easier. It really doesn't make much of a difference to the end user whether or not their browser is open source.

estyles
June 16th, 2009, 08:32 PM
But you can't download the songs, only listen to them. This is what stops YouTube, Myspace, and other sites where you can listen to songs for free from being taken down. You can only listen to it on their website, you can't do anything else with it. As long as the Jukbox feature doesn't allow downloads, it should be fine.

If you can listen to it, you can download it. They may be able to make it harder, but as long as the bits are streaming to your computer, they can't stop you from making a copy. That's what strikes me as so silly about the whole digital copyright stuff. At some point, the content has to be decrypted, and short of litigation, there's nothing stopping a user from inserting a recording method in between the decryption and the audio playback.

Though I'm not saying you're wrong. I never thought about youtube in this regard - I figured that the songs which were up there just hadn't been reported and taken down yet. If what you say is how they keep from getting litigated, and Opera's Jukebox feature can do the same thing to keep the RIAA off their backs, then more power to them. I, for one, would probably use the service as intended, but I'm strange like that - I prefer to buy CD's rather than buy or "steal" mp3s...

Skripka
June 16th, 2009, 08:32 PM
It really doesn't make much of a difference to the end user whether or not their browser is open source.

The only time it does is if you want to run Opera on your ARM processor based BSD running toaster.

MellonCollie
June 16th, 2009, 08:33 PM
But you can't download the songs, only listen to them.

You can. Just right-click>save target as on the file(s) you want.

CrazyArcher
June 16th, 2009, 09:26 PM
It's a very thin border. Basicly, anyone can set up at home a file server and let anyone download copyrighted content from it. The difference between this and Opera Unite is just ease of use.
Also, Napster got sued (and lost) because they had a centralized database. In case of Opera it's not the case.

Mehall
June 16th, 2009, 09:31 PM
It's a very thin border. Basicly, anyone can set up at home a file server and let anyone download copyrighted content from it. The difference between this and Opera Unite is just ease of use.
Also, Napster got sued (and lost) because they had a centralized database. In case of Opera it's not the case.

Yet TPB lost with no such database.

DemonParasite
June 16th, 2009, 10:35 PM
If you can listen to it, you can download it. They may be able to make it harder, but as long as the bits are streaming to your computer, they can't stop you from making a copy. That's what strikes me as so silly about the whole digital copyright stuff. At some point, the content has to be decrypted, and short of litigation, there's nothing stopping a user from inserting a recording method in between the decryption and the audio playback.

Though I'm not saying you're wrong. I never thought about youtube in this regard - I figured that the songs which were up there just hadn't been reported and taken down yet. If what you say is how they keep from getting litigated, and Opera's Jukebox feature can do the same thing to keep the RIAA off their backs, then more power to them. I, for one, would probably use the service as intended, but I'm strange like that - I prefer to buy CD's rather than buy or "steal" mp3s...

They can't really do anything about people abusing the system. There are ways to download videos from YouTube, and the RIAA would have to go after those sites or the people exploiting the system. I'd assume Opera would be safe, but who knows.

rookcifer
June 17th, 2009, 01:07 AM
I'm aware that most people who use OSS don't even look at the source code. Firefox also had 3 times the vulnerabilities that Opera/IE/Safari had last year

That's because Opera/IE/Safari don't publish all their vulnerabilities. No one knows, for instance, how many bugs were found in house and not published. Firefox, due to its open nature, has virtually all of its bugs and vulnerabilities published.


although, like you said, they were fixed easier. It really doesn't make much of a difference to the end user whether or not their browser is open source.

Even though 99.9% of users will not go trolling through the source code doesn't mean that there is no advantage to FOSS. The .1% that do make up a significant number when compared to a small team of people in house who look at code with proprietary software. That small percentage of coders who will look at the source gives the other 99.9% of users peace of mind that there is nothing "funny" going on (phoning home for instance, like so many M$ products do). That type of thing would never fly with FOSS software, at least not for long. And, of course, there's the aforementioned advantage that bugs and vulns will not be hidden for long and will typically be patched faster.