Ubuntu, four years after Hoary

[aysiu]

I know it's the cool thing to bag on whatever the latest Ubuntu release is. There are definitely some bugs in Jaunty I wish the developers had worked out, but overall I find it to be a good release.

For some of you new folks, this may give you a sense of how far things have progressed since Ubuntu 5.04 (my first Ubuntu, the second official release), nicknamed Hoary Hedgehog.

For some of you old folks, this is just a stroll down memory lane and may give you a good chuckle.

In the "old" Ubuntu days... There was a text-only ncurses installer CD and a separate live CD. There was no reliable way to write to NTFS partitions New repositories had to be added and removed by manually editing the /etc/apt/sources.list file Any graphics changes had to be done by manually editing the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file You couldn't edit the Gnome menu by right-clicking it You were never prompted to install missing proprietary codecs or hardware drivers, and there was no ubuntu-restricted-extras metapackage. All that stuff had to be done manually There was no splash screen during bootup. You got white text on a black screen the full way through. There was no way to skip disk checks after 30 mounts. Upgrading was a stressful affair. You weren't sure if your X server would crash or what would go wrong. Plus, you had to manually reinstall the ubuntu-desktop metapackage and manually change the sources.list file to the new release nickname There was no apt-get autoremove or Computer Janitor. If you wanted to remove unnecessary packages, you need to use deborphan. Very few Ubuntu .deb files were available for download outside of what was in the repositories. There was no Add/Remove, only Synaptic Compiz/Beryl was an arduous process to get up and running The chances of resume-from-suspend-to-RAM working were slim to none Even though Ubuntu has a long way to go still, I'm impressed every time I boot up that desktop effects are only a click away, my Broadcom wireless card is working automatically, there's a splash screen during bootup, and I can check and uncheck software sources at a whim.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things turn out for Karmic Koala and Leaping Leprechaun.

[MikeTheC]

I didn't seriously start using Ubuntu until somewhere in the 7.x series, and then I really didn't take to using it closer to full-time until it was in the 8.x series, but I can certainly see some of the improvements you're talking about.

As I was basically mentioning over in the Fedora 11 thread, Ubuntu sure has it over Fedora when it comes to these sort of refinements and conveniences (particularly with adding restricted extras, proprietary hardware drivers, etc.)

How much of that is Ubuntu not upstreaming stuff, and how much of it is other distros just not thinking it important to do I'm not sure. All I can say is that running Fedora does give me some appreciation for what Canonical has decided to do with Ubuntu.

[H2SO_four]

That is a great attitude to have. Sometimes we need a little perspective to remind us where we have been to assess where we are. When you think of Jaunty in terms of where it (Ubuntu) has come in the last couple years, it rocks! Yes there are minor annoyances but overall the OS is quite nice.

[aysiu]

Well, I certainly don't want people to get complacent and think this is as far as we are going to come, but when you think about the difference of only four years, it's quite an amazing turnaround. Even having themes like DarkRoom and Dust Sand available in a default installation is such a breath of fresh air (have you even seen the poo-brown Ubuntu started with for its original Human theme?).

[FuturePilot]

I know it's the cool thing to bag on whatever the latest Ubuntu release is. There are definitely some bugs in Jaunty I wish the developers had worked out, but overall I find it to be a good release.

For some of you new folks, this may give you a sense of how far things have progressed since Ubuntu 5.04 (my first Ubuntu, the second official release), nicknamed Hoary Hedgehog.

For some of you old folks, this is just a stroll down memory lane and may give you a good chuckle.

In the "old" Ubuntu days... There was a text-only ncurses installer CD and a separate live CD. There was no reliable way to write to NTFS partitions New repositories had to be added and removed by manually editing the /etc/apt/sources.list file Any graphics changes had to be done by manually editing the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file You couldn't edit the Gnome menu by right-clicking it You were never prompted to install missing proprietary codecs or hardware drivers, and there was no ubuntu-restricted-extras metapackage. All that stuff had to be done manually There was no splash screen during bootup. You got white text on a black screen the full way through. There was no way to skip disk checks after 30 mounts. Upgrading was a stressful affair. You weren't sure if your X server would crash or what would go wrong. Plus, you had to manually reinstall the ubuntu-desktop metapackage and manually change the sources.list file to the new release nickname There was no apt-get autoremove or Computer Janitor. If you wanted to remove unnecessary packages, you need to use deborphan. Very few Ubuntu .deb files were available for download outside of what was in the repositories. There was no Add/Remove, only Synaptic Compiz/Beryl was an arduous process to get up and running The chances of resume-from-suspend-to-RAM working were slim to none Even though Ubuntu has a long way to go still, I'm impressed every time I boot up that desktop effects are only a click away, my Broadcom wireless card is working automatically, there's a splash screen during bootup, and I can check and uncheck software sources at a whim.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things turn our for Karmic Koala and Leaping Leprechaun.

Man that brings back memories. I started with 6.06 but I can definitely recall most of those. Installing and setting up the Nvidia drivers was tricky and you had to modify xorg.conf by hand. And then there was XGL and Beryl. And installing all the codecs and whatnot manually. Ahh memories. Ubuntu sure has come a long way though. I can't wait to see what it will bring in the next 4 years.

[MellonCollie]

Even having themes like DarkRoom and Dust Sand available in a default installation is such a breath of fresh air (have you even seen the poo-brown Ubuntu started with for its original Human theme?).

I actually prefer that poo-brown to the current "brown" (which looks orange to me).

[drawkcab]

Warty Warthog, Ubuntu 4.10, was my first. Yeah, it was pretty much a nightmare for someone like me who was new to linux. But it beat trying to clean malware off win98 every day. When Hoary came out I moved to Xubuntu before it was official and installed ubuntu on my brand new laptop. Ubuntu has come a long, long way.

[PreviousN]

I started in using ubuntu with feisty. My first linux was slackware, however, about 3 months before feisty. I experimented with linux distros and came to ubuntu frustrated. Even in feisty things worked good.

I think that we should remember how far we have come... but at the same time I have seen some awful regressions. In feisty I had nearly everything working. Then, upgrading to gutsy broke my wireless. I fixed that. Then, upgrading to hardy broke my sound (at least, I think it was hardy...) and I had to compile alsa from source. Then from hardy to ibex I had bluetooth break. Finally, upgrading to jaunty broke my wireless again, failed to fix my bluetooth, but fixed my sound.

So I think that the bottom line should be that we can always do better. Whether that be in fixing broken hardware, keep working devices from one version to the next, and then add functionality.

OHH. An idea. How about we, in the upgrade process, ask the user "does your wireless work? does your bluetooth work? does your computer have desktop effects?" and depending on the answers to those questions the upgrade program can selectively upgrade different aspects of the computer. For example, if it would have asked me if my bluetooth was working and I would have said yes, I wouldn't have been upgraded from Bluez 3.6 to 4.x (which breaks two of the three bluetooth dongles I own).

Just a thought.

[aysiu]

You're absolutely right, PreviousN.

In the past, it used to be common for forum members to blame the manufacturers for things not working, and rightly so. The hardware specs weren't opened up or there weren't native Linux drivers.

But regressions should not happen. If it was possible to get it working in this release, it should stay working in the next release. And the only excuse that can work in that case is "We're only human. We make mistakes."

[azangru]

In the "old" Ubuntu days... There was a text-only ncurses installer CD and a separate live CD. There was no reliable way to write to NTFS partitions New repositories had to be added and removed by manually editing the /etc/apt/sources.list file Any graphics changes had to be done by manually editing the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file You couldn't edit the Gnome menu by right-clicking it You were never prompted to install missing proprietary codecs or hardware drivers, and there was no ubuntu-restricted-extras metapackage. All that stuff had to be done manually There was no splash screen during bootup. You got white text on a black screen the full way through. There was no way to skip disk checks after 30 mounts. Upgrading was a stressful affair. You weren't sure if your X server would crash or what would go wrong. Plus, you had to manually reinstall the ubuntu-desktop metapackage and manually change the sources.list file to the new release nickname There was no apt-get autoremove or Computer Janitor. If you wanted to remove unnecessary packages, you need to use deborphan. Very few Ubuntu .deb files were available for download outside of what was in the repositories. There was no Add/Remove, only Synaptic Compiz/Beryl was an arduous process to get up and running The chances of resume-from-suspend-to-RAM working were slim to none

So what made you stick with Ubuntu in those good, or, rather, dreadful old days?

[Therion]

I still have notes on how I had to edit menu.lst just to get Feisty Fawn to boot for me at the time. Hardy is what spoiled me rotten though. And Jaunty.

Oh, and from the looks of it Karmic. I still shake a tiny, impotent fist at Intrepid. Not sure what went wrong there...

Still it is amazing how far Ubuntu has come.

[ghindo]

I started using Ubuntu sometime in 2006, and I still remember Xorg blowing up in my face and spending hours on the forums and in the command line trying to get it working again. There have definitely been ups and downs since then, but we have still come a very long way. I can't wait to see where we go from here! Karmic is looking to be very promising.

[aysiu]

So what made you stick with Ubuntu in those good, or, rather, dreadful old days?
Well, mainly it was the documentation and community support.

At the time, I'd had about a month of Mepis under my belt. Mepis was, in terms of usability, miles ahead of Ubuntu. Mepis had an easy way to install proprietary graphics driver, a graphical way to reinstall Grub, all the major proprietary codecs preinstalled (though Ubuntu does not include these for philosophical reasons (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy)). Mepis had a live and installer CD in one. It used KDE, which at the time was far ahead of Gnome in terms of functionality.

Nothing against Mepis users, but I had a hard time getting good help from them. I generally found that the friendliest Linux forums tended to be the least knowledgeable ones and the most knowledgeable ones also tended to be the least friendly.

With Ubuntu, I was able to get a good balance. With the Ubuntu code of conduct and Ubuntu's "Linux for Human Beings" philosophy, there was a lot of friendliness here on the forums, but since Ubuntu was so difficult to get up and running, there were also a lot of knowledgeable folks here, so I was able to get good help. And, at the time, the Ubuntu Guide was the best documentation I could find. Once I got over my fear of the terminal and realized I could copy and paste commands, I fully embraced Ubuntu as my distro of choice.

[benj1]

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things turn our for Karmic Koala and Leaping Leprechaun.
please don't say thats the official name for 10.04 :(

[aysiu]

please don't say thats the official name for 10.04 :(
It's not. I was totally joking. It took until post 14 for someone to call me on it, I guess.

[castrojo]

So what made you stick with Ubuntu in those good, or, rather, dreadful old days?

At the time all those problems seemed like the least of the problems. I was just happy to have USB keys Just Work(tm) when you plugged them in!

[Screwdriver0815]

oh yes... this makes me remember... The first Linux I tried was Ubuntu 5.10 and after that 6.06 and Suse 10.

But I had to give up my Linuxtrip as I did not have any clue about all this manually editing of the config files. Additionally I did not find enough support for all my questions... don't know why... but maybe the community also has grown really strong over the last couple of years.

Trying Hardy in 2008 was like a different world. It was/ is eyewatering how much progress was done in this short time. Its simply great! So if someone says that Linux is too difficult, he should try an old Linux from 2004 or 2005 or before to see what is really difficult!! :D

[fatality_uk]

Ubuntu / Linux has come such a long way in the last few years. However, as usual, I find that for every step forward Linux takes, there's usually 3 steps back. Ubuntu has raised the game across the board, however there still needs to be a greater emphasis making sure that apps work from release to release :(

[forrestcupp]

Hoary was my first, too. Even as bad as it was back then, it worked better for me than any other distro I had tried. I was just fascinated with the fact that I could have a totally free OS that worked so well.

[MikeTheC]

At the time all those problems seemed like the least of the problems. I was just happy to have USB keys Just Work(tm) when you plugged them in!

I was going to start a thread to bemoan this, but thankfully your comment here is an even better place because it directly reminds me of it.

As you folks know, I just bought a new keyboard. When first started to use it, I'd been in Fedora 11. However, this system is dual-booted with Seven, and so I booted up into it because there were a couple quick things I needed to do.

So, can someone here please explain to me how the Great And Mighty And All-Powerful Windows Seven Operating System can't deal with a newly-plugged-in keyboard on at least a basic level? I couldn't log into my system because I needed to type in my password, and the only way to install the keyboard is from a logged-in state. This illustrates the lack of real and significant change in the design, the philosophy, and probably even the code in Windows.

It never fails to amaze me how s***y and retarded Microsoft's software development process is. I don't know a single other OS that has to go through some "formal install process" for a keyboard, or a quasi-reinstall/update every time you take an existing device and simply plug it into a different port.

[Viva]

Still remember the time when there was little software available for the 64bit distros. Had to compile a lot of software manually

[alexcckll]

Hi folks,

OK - speaking as someone who has really started with Linux courtesy of a preinstall - as long as that UNetbootin tool is backported to Hardy so I can pull it down and prep UNR for a planned netbook purchase...

And yes - get it sorted on the regressions... and we'll have a nifty OS..

[DougieFresh4U]

I believe it was Breezy I started with, 2 discs came in the mail, 1 live and 1 install.
I didn't have a clue but it brought me away from Win95 with working ethernet on Breezy.
The Ubuntu Forum has come along way and BACK. As help I feel was so much better when I started. (to much nit-picking now)
And there's the ole 'x' issue which we no longer really (I) worry about causing major, major crash and burn as it was an almost daily update occurance (back then)
But as stated, it's not really seen how much better things have gotten, until one looks back to 'yester year'
Just my little thought :)

[Luffield]

Excellent list, it really puts a lot of things into perspective. Well done!
One small correction, though:

Compiz/Beryl was an arduous process to get up and running
In 2005 it required a time machine :)

[Screwdriver0815]

I was going to start a thread to bemoan this, but thankfully your comment here is an even better place because it directly reminds me of it.

As you folks know, I just bought a new keyboard. When first started to use it, I'd been in Fedora 11. However, this system is dual-booted with Seven, and so I booted up into it because there were a couple quick things I needed to do.

So, can someone here please explain to me how the Great And Mighty And All-Powerful Windows Seven Operating System can't deal with a newly-plugged-in keyboard on at least a basic level? I couldn't log into my system because I needed to type in my password, and the only way to install the keyboard is from a logged-in state. This illustrates the lack of real and significant change in the design, the philosophy, and probably even the code in Windows.

It never fails to amaze me how s***y and retarded Microsoft's software development process is. I don't know a single other OS that has to go through some "formal install process" for a keyboard, or a quasi-reinstall/update every time you take an existing device and simply plug it into a different port.
Ha ha... I wonder why... why in hell does nobody of these Windows-Lovers who creep around in this forum and defend and praise Windows 7 see how amazingly behind this OS in reality is. Installing drivers for a USB stick... for a USB keyboard... for a USB HDD... always new when you plug it into a different port... what´ s that?? This... after 11 years of development... its unbelievable!!
This and only this (!!) shows how professional an OS is. Not the availability of Codecs.

The development- and success story of Linux shown in the given example in this thread shows how superior the development model of open source software is.

[MasterNetra]

I didn't actually start using Ubuntu until Hardy Heron really. But my first experience with Ubuntu was with 7.04 after getting curious about Linux, I was hearing things occasionally so I started exploring, however when trying the live-CD it didn't detect my video card of my desktop so I continued looking elsewhere and played with Knoppix or whatever pretty distro I could find at the time. After a little while I gave up as I couldn't find anything to adequately replace WinXP. Later after starting college a classmate mentioned Ubuntu once more. Having forgotten 7.04's failure I re-checked and tried hardy and love it ever sense ^.^ ...Though I'm a bit frustrated on not being able to get CS3 running for my classes but meh. And I'm a bit disappointed that Compiz won't let enable effects due to my Intel graphics card being blacklisted but meh. Perhaps it will be fixed later...
(P.s. I find it amusing that Ubuntu isn't recognized by spell check on Ubuntu itself! ^.^)

[kevdog]

Call it experience from working with Linux, however now that I read over your list about what needed to be done in 5.04, that list does not look intimidating to me in the least. It probably would have back then, but now that I think I may have done all the things mentioned on the list -- no big deal. In some respects, there is a certain honor in having to edit config files by hand and the Xorg.conf file. Sure it was a pain the first 10 times through, however it really did teach the end user a lot about the system. This basic understanding however is greatly being lost with automation. Its unfortunate in one respect since the level of discourse found in these very forums have changed.

[AlphaMack]

I started with Breezy. Getting wireless to work with Ndiswrapper was a lot of fun back then. :roll:

Hmmm...what else:

- No quick eject buttons in a Nautilus window
- No Medibuntu/Easy Ubuntu, just Automatix.
- No debs to easily download.
- Few nice themes.
- No Compiz.
- No screenlets.
- Text based installation. (Wasn't too bad but it could be daunting to newbies.)
- Init.

[drawkcab]

This is starting to sound like a "remember the old days when we had to walk uphill both ways" thread.

But seriously, working in those early versions of Ubuntu taught me a lot about software and technology.

[wersdaluv]

I remember not having my USB slots work. I tried to fix it for months. 6-7 months, I think. I found a fix but that disabled my WLAN. I tried for some more months until I found the solution. haha

[wersdaluv]

I started with Breezy. Getting wireless to work with Ndiswrapper was a lot of fun back then. :roll:

Hmmm...what else:

- No quick eject buttons in a Nautilus window
- No Medibuntu/Easy Ubuntu, just Automatix.
- No debs to easily download.
- Few nice themes.
- No Compiz.
- No screenlets.
- Text based installation. (Wasn't too bad but it could be daunting to newbies.)
- Init.
Automatix! Haha! All the flamewars and stuff. Even Michael Dell used it but the l33t hax0rs saw the risks. hehe

[dmizer]

Call it experience from working with Linux, however now that I read over your list about what needed to be done in 5.04, that list does not look intimidating to me in the least. It probably would have back then, but now that I think I may have done all the things mentioned on the list -- no big deal.

Yes, as difficult as that list may seem to be now, Ubuntu was already several steps ahead of most distributions in terms of hardware support and usability. I installed it on multiple machines and wound up with a functional system.

My two biggest problems were printing and samba file sharing. It was a couple years before some kind soul posted repositories with drivers for the printers in my office. As for samba, I just bit the bullet and learned what I needed to know in order to get it to work correctly.

I also agree that the push for GUI has been at the sacrifice of CLI functionality and knowledge (specifically xorg and /etc/network/interfaces). After all, what do you do when the GUI tool fails?

[xuCGC002]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2975/ubuntuhedgehog.png

Hmm, that file browser reminds me of something...

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1682/amwindows95desktop.png

Ah, Ubuntu, how far you've come. :)

[wersdaluv]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2975/ubuntuhedgehog.png

Hmm, that file browser reminds me of something...

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1682/amwindows95desktop.png

Ah, Ubuntu, how far you've come. :)
Hoary=2005
Win95=1995 :D

[DirtDawg]

I'm pretty sure I remember editing the menu with right-click, but there wasn't a menu editor. Once the user opened the menu with a standard left-click, you could right-click any entry to edit it. I remember the feature because I was upset when they removed it.

Does anyone else remember this feature? I started with Warty, so it may have been removed before Hoary. I can't remember.

[kevdog]

I definitely agree with the Samba configuration. Definitely need to read the man files and follow dmizer's tutorials :). GUIs are nice if they capture the full functionality of the CLI version (or come really close). So far with most things with Linux, I've really failed to be impressed with most of the GUI interfaces.

On a related point -- wouldn't it be great if the Tutorials and Tips section were organized and cross referenced by distribution when they were written. A lot of good things came out in the earlier editions when CLI was definitely king!

[geekygirl]

ah yes the good old days of Hoary, how I remember you lol

I remember having to do a LOT of work to get my default screen resolution of 1280x800 to even be picked...855resolution wasnt even on the repo's originally and had to be installed 'manually'..scripts needed to be added to enable it to load when booting up, as mentioned, having to 'manually' adjust xorg to get it all to play nice, just to be able to get decent screen resolution ;)

Then there was sound....

Then there was wireless...

ah but it was fun and I learnt a lot more about Ubuntu having to do it all for myself :D

[kevdog]

geekygirl

If you are really from Townsville AUS -- Id be shocked. What a great city to visit!

[dmizer]

GUIs are nice if they capture the full functionality of the CLI version (or come really close). So far with most things with Linux, I've really failed to be impressed with most of the GUI interfaces.

Or if they don't conflict with CLI tools, rendering both useless (network-manager anyone?).

Ah old school ... we're a dying breed eh? :p Though, I suppose that in itself is a real indicator of how far Ubuntu has come.

[forrestcupp]

So, can someone here please explain to me how the Great And Mighty And All-Powerful Windows Seven Operating System can't deal with a newly-plugged-in keyboard on at least a basic level? I couldn't log into my system because I needed to type in my password, and the only way to install the keyboard is from a logged-in state. This illustrates the lack of real and significant change in the design, the philosophy, and probably even the code in Windows.Well, let's be fair here. If I get some kind of new hardware that isn't supported in the Linux Kernel or in the tweaks that my distro has implemented, it isn't going to work until I log in and figure out how to get it to work. That's usually harder to do than to just log into Windows and install drivers that came with my device.

The problem you described is a problem that hasn't been fixed in any OS. If something isn't supported by default, you have to log in and get it to work, no matter what OS you're running.


I'm pretty sure I remember editing the menu with right-click, but there wasn't a menu editor. Once the user opened the menu with a standard left-click, you could right-click any entry to edit it. I remember the feature because I was upset when they removed it.

Does anyone else remember this feature? I started with Warty, so it may have been removed before Hoary. I can't remember.
I think you have it backwards. Gnome didn't have a menu editor built in until much later. Warty and Hoary came with a 3rd party menu editor that was pretty buggy. You couldn't right-click and edit, you had to load up this crappy 3rd party editor (which became a little better later on).

Then, I think it was with Breezy that they took it out. I assume they did that because of the menu editor's bugginess and because Gnome was working on adding in the ability to edit menus. Unfortunately, that capability wasn't included in the version of Gnome that was in Breezy, so we were out of luck. I think I found a way to install the old menu editor in Breezy, though.

[zgornel]

The thing to be really amazed is how far linux got from ~98-99 when people started adopting it as a full Windows replacement. Compling everything yourself, drivers for 1/10 of all available hardware, scarse internet access - menaning less updates and no online help, crashes landing from everywhere (especially the 1.0.x branch of gnome) :D

[Screwdriver0815]

Well, let's be fair here. If I get some kind of new hardware that isn't supported in the Linux Kernel or in the tweaks that my distro has implemented, it isn't going to work until I log in and figure out how to get it to work. That's usually harder to do than to just log into Windows and install drivers that came with my device.

The problem you described is a problem that hasn't been fixed in any OS. If something isn't supported by default, you have to log in and get it to work, no matter what OS you're running.


come on mate, we are talking about a stupid USB keyboard! Something which has to be supported EVERYWHERE - its not a Missile Launcher nor rocket science! Its just a keyboard!

So lets be fair: Windows 7 proves to be stagnated crap. Linux, resp. Ubuntu proves to make progress over time. Thats fair enough.

[Tristam Green]

A lot of the things aysiu mentioned in the OP, I still use - manually editing /etc/apt/sources.list, verbose startup output, among others lol.

But, it's very good to see how far Ubuntu has come. Hopefully it will continue to grow into an even better OS and desktop system in the future.

[DirtDawg]

I think you have it backwards. Gnome didn't have a menu editor built in until much later. Warty and Hoary came with a 3rd party menu editor that was pretty buggy. You couldn't right-click and edit, you had to load up this crappy 3rd party editor (which became a little better later on).

Then, I think it was with Breezy that they took it out. I assume they did that because of the menu editor's bugginess and because Gnome was working on adding in the ability to edit menus. Unfortunately, that capability wasn't included in the version of Gnome that was in Breezy, so we were out of luck. I think I found a way to install the old menu editor in Breezy, though.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for that, it's been a few years.

[forrestcupp]

come on mate, we are talking about a stupid USB keyboard! Something which has to be supported EVERYWHERE - its not a Missile Launcher nor rocket science! Its just a keyboard!

So lets be fair: Windows 7 proves to be stagnated crap. Linux, resp. Ubuntu proves to make progress over time. Thats fair enough.

I'm not a Windows 7 freak, I'm just trying to be fair. I've used Win7 and I've talked to a lot of people who have used it. USB keyboards are becoming standard for desktops, and this is the first case I've ever heard of anyone having trouble with a USB keyboard in Windows 7. It makes me wonder if it was a standard USB keyboard, or if it was some fancy thing that needs special drivers.

Anyway, Windows 7 isn't even finished yet. It's still a release candidate not meant for production computers. I've tested plenty of Ubuntu betas and RC's, and I had at least as many bugs and problems as I did with Win7's RC.

Try getting a common Lexmark All-in-One printer to work in any final release of Ubuntu. It's not a missile launcher nor rocket science; It's just a printer!

[Mazza558]

It's not just the core OS that's improved massively, it's the quality and availability of apps.

- Remember life before gnome-do?
- manually installing Flash, and it crashing Firefox?
- Remember when GTK themes were ugly?

I hope in another 4 years, we can look back and say:

- Remember when we had to manually add repositories?
- Remember when there were 4 confusing ways of installing programs?
- Remember when the main menu functioned like Windows 98?
- Remember when there were multiple sound sybsystems in Ubuntu?

Of course, in 4 years' time, compiz will have disappeared, and GNOME 3, as well as KDE 5.0 will be around.

[ghindo]

- Remember life before gnome-do?Those were dark times, my friend - dark times. :(

[aysiu]

I've never used Gnome-Do before.

[MasterNetra]

I've never used Gnome-Do before.

Its kinda like a search & run for apps only and attempts to figure out what your looking for as you type and display the first closests thing to what you have typed thus far, ex. if you want to launch synaptic you could end up just typing syn and it may display the synpatic package manager's launcher thing, if thats the case just hit enter and it launches. Of course if you have another apt that starts with syn you may need to type further ;) Its nice and all and I keep it just in case something i install doesn't produce a menu launcher. Otherwise I still prefer the old fashion menu, but thats my preference. :)

[aysiu]

Like QuickSilver for Macs?

Nice, but I can easily live without it.

If I want to launch Synaptic, I'll press Super+S instead of some other key combination to get up a dialogue so I can start typing syn

[forrestcupp]

Gnome-Do means you have to use your keyboard.

[Mazza558]

Like QuickSilver for Macs?

Nice, but I can easily live without it.

If I want to launch Synaptic, I'll press Super+S instead of some other key combination to get up a dialogue so I can start typing syn

If you used synaptic enough, it'd work out that you mean synaptic just from typing "s".

Plus, there's a banshee and file/folder plugin. With the former I can tap in an artist and start playing an album very quickly.

The firefox plugin is also very useful, which looks through your bookmarks for the page you want.

[MasterNetra]

Like QuickSilver for Macs?

Nice, but I can easily live without it.

If I want to launch Synaptic, I'll press Super+S instead of some other key combination to get up a dialogue so I can start typing syn

Synpatic was just a example :p like i said i keep it just incase i get on of those no menu addy progs. can try to search for it via gnome do to run it, especially useful if you don't know the program's actual file name. ^.^

[Viva]

It's not just the core OS that's improved massively, it's the quality and availability of apps.

- Remember life before gnome-do?
- manually installing Flash, and it crashing Firefox?
- Remember when GTK themes were ugly?

I hope in another 4 years, we can look back and say:

- Remember when we had to manually add repositories?
- Remember when there were 4 confusing ways of installing programs?
- Remember when the main menu functioned like Windows 98?
- Remember when there were multiple sound sybsystems in Ubuntu?

Of course, in 4 years' time, compiz will have disappeared, and GNOME 3, as well as KDE 5.0 will be around.

I don't see anything wrong with those. I prefer the nice organized menu in ubuntu compared to the XP menu,

[meeples]

:O if 10.04 is not Lusty Lemming i'll cry! :P

[phrostbyte]

It was BAD back then. I'd say 33% of the time, the installer would fail on any given computer.

Wifi was completely broken as hell in Ubuntu Hoary. I'm not saying it's perfect now, but it was virtually impossible to get a wireless connection, and NetworkManager didn't exist either. Hardware support in general was an order of magnitude worse. ATI cards 3D acceleration were completely unusable, for instance.

Overall I think Ubuntu got more usable (improvements to ease of use), as well as massive hardware support enhancements. But the default theme hasn't changed all that much. :)

[73ckn797]

My experience began in June 2008 with 8.04, then 8.10 and now 9.04 64bit. Just in that brief period I have seen many improvements and now use 9.04 exclusively on my desktop. I do not have Windows installed anymore. I use 9.04 32bit on the laptop but still have Windows XP there for work reasons when needed. Which is about 1% of the time.

I did try 7.04 once but it was more than I was wanting to deal with at the time. 8.04 was when I decided I liked and probably could live with a different OS.

[drseibel]

Wow. Being a total noob, it's interesting to see how many changes have happened with Ubuntu and Linux in general. I've only been using Ubuntu for about 3-4 months now, myself. My hard drive crashed and the recovery partitiion on the hard drive went with it (shame on me for not burning a DVD of it). I was getting sick of Windows Vista anyway, so I decided I wanted Linux before I discovered that my computer was still under warrantee. Long story short, I have both Ubuntu and Windows Vista, although I only have the latter because I still need certain programs for the Army which I have not been able to make work on Ubuntu yet. Here's to hoping that future improvements will bring about that possibility too. Otherwise, I love Ubuntu for ease of use, but at the same time allowing me the opportunity to tinker and play and figure things out. :D

[DirtDawg]

It's not just the core OS that's improved massively, it's the quality and availability of apps.

- Remember life before gnome-do?
- manually installing Flash, and it crashing Firefox?
- Remember when GTK themes were ugly?

I hope in another 4 years, we can look back and say:

- Remember when we had to manually add repositories?
- Remember when there were 4 confusing ways of installing programs?
- Remember when the main menu functioned like Windows 98?
- Remember when there were multiple sound sybsystems in Ubuntu?

Of course, in 4 years' time, compiz will have disappeared, and GNOME 3, as well as KDE 5.0 will be around.
What's wrong with four ways of installing things? Most people use Synaptic, but debs are great for anything not included in the repos, and building from source is great for customised or bleeding edge software and... er, what's the fourth way again?

As far as extra repositories, I thought the whole point was so people who prefer not to add third party repositories had that choice. Of course in practice, I'm not sure anyone actually does not add the extra repos, so I might actually see your point there. Maybe it's a legal thing.

How could the menu be improved? It seems well organised to me. Not to mention it's completely customisable. I'm not disagreeing it could be improved, I just wonder how, exactly. I don't see it.

[jsmidt]

I remember the Hoary days. Those were interesting times. I was completely new to Linux and learning to use Linux back then was a chore.

I tried installing Fedora, Opensuse, Mandrake and Debian all unsuccessfully. Ubuntu was the first Linux distro that actually installed on my computer.

I remember when wireless would never work. The X server would sometimes crash and I'd be clueless what to do. Apt-get would sometimes get stuck and refuse to install things. Flash didn't work very well. My sound didn't work. The video was completely choppy, etc...

To be honest, I actually enjoyed the challenge of making it work. I've used Ubuntu ever since and have never looked back.

[ghindo]

Gnome-Do means you have to use your keyboard.For me at least, that's a very good thing. :KS

[markharding557]

my first was dapper drake but i spent six months or more battling with debian sarge before that.
i became really tired of trying to get sarge to work properly everything almost had to be done on the command line,taught me plenty.
when i found dapper it was omg polished debian so with it i went.
i have used ubuntu ever since'still use debian as well on my laptop.
one habit i can't get rid of though is enabling icons and trash bin and root console as in debian just got used to that in sarge

[steveneddy]

I started with Warty Warthog (the first release I think) I knew nothing about Linux at all.

I remember aysiu coming to my aid many times.

Upgrade the kernel? Reinstall Nvidia drivers.

Compiz? Before Compiz it was Beryl. I miss Beryl. In many ways it was revolutionary and actually more stable in others.

Open Office? Impossible.

I have used every release since, painstakingly installing and fighting with it all weekend only to hit the forums all week long fixing stuff.

Ubuntu has come a very long way.

Aysiu took the bull by the horns and made it easier for most of us to use and understand Ubuntu and Linux.

Thank you, aysiu.

EDIT: This thread got me looking.

Remember quinnstorm? Wow does that name bring back memories.

[aysiu]

I think you're giving me a little too much credit, steveneddy, but thanks.

[Compucore]

I remember Hearty very well it was my first Linux that I had used fully at least on one spare computer over here. St lesdt iy esd on s lsppy at that time. Now I have at least3 desktops just using linux alone and a seperate hard drive for my current laptop that is just linux. I love it always have and always will. The only time I have to switch over is cause yhe others are using that windows thingie ma bab.

Compucore

[buzzmandt]

nice back in the day thread....
I remember beryl and trying to make it work, and had to edit the xorg.conf file everytime a change was made to make nvidia drivers work.

ubuntu almost lost me when (can't remember which version it was) firefox couldn't run more than 2 instances without locking up. I upgraded as soon as I could and it was fixed. now run jj and am looking forward to kk.

not just ubuntu has come a long way, but linux itself has, even back then most distros had to be mucked with a ton to make it work. I think Ubuntu has had a lot to do with most distros being so much better. Ubuntu kinda took over for a while and they (the others) had to do some serious catching up.

[forrestcupp]

Remember quinnstorm? Wow does that name bring back memories.
Yeah, I've been wondering what quinnstorm is up to nowadays.

[steveneddy]

Yeah, I've been wondering what quinnstorm is up to nowadays.

Last thing I say was a developer with VMware i think.

There is also a female (younger) quinn_storm on the internet too.

I always wondered if LaRoza and quinnstorm were the same person.

they had the same posting style and you could detect the personality through the posts. You know what i mean?

[steveneddy]

I think you're giving me a little too much credit, steveneddy, but thanks.

No sir. Your website (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php) has helped hundreds if not thousands of us out here.

I see you are now a staff member. Congrats. When you were a mod you were one of the best.

Thanks for this great thread for jogging our memories and thanks for helping all of us understand and actually USE Ubuntu.

It was through your advice that i purchased my first system 76 laptop, which I still have and am actually posting it it now. I use it on the road from day one and after two and one half years it seems indestructible.

Again, thanks.

(I still refer to your website (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php) from time to time)

[ericab]

lol @ Leaping Leprechaun

i hope not; otherwise im switching to fedora.


srsly.

[DemonBob]

Ubuntu has came along way in the short time of it's life span. The same can be said for any version of Linux.

I started with Linux back in the Red Hat 7 days, i got the official box set for Christmas one year. Ever since then, until last year i made the switch completely, I've had a dual boot system.

I remember when LILO was more prominent then grub as your boot manager, hours editing XFree86 config file to get the display just right. Konqueror was really the only decent browser for Linux, and being able to read and write NTFS as not possible at the time. Half the time the only thing you knew for positive when installing software was that you where going to either be stuck in dependency hell for a few hours. Or drinking a lot of coffee waiting on something to compile.

After trying everything from Red Hat, SUSE, Mandrake, Slackware, Gentoo, Fedora and half a dozen other distro's i finally came to Ubuntu in 7.04 day's and have not looked back. Except for my FreeBSD jailed web servers, my FreeNAS (FreeBSD based), my firewall pfsenese FreeBSD based), everything in the house runs some form of Ubuntu. As you can tell i am sort of a BSD junkie besides Ubuntu.

[markharding557]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2975/ubuntuhedgehog.png

Hmm, that file browser reminds me of something...

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1682/amwindows95desktop.png

Ah, Ubuntu, how far you've come. :)

the relative simplicity of gnome is why i like using it,win95 is from the days when windows was not bloated like a pig.
i hope gnome stays pretty much as it is

[ghindo]

i hope gnome stays pretty much as it isYou might want to stop upgrading after GNOME 2.28... :P

[SerenityKill3r]

Ubuntu. I love you.

[MikeTheC]

Well, let's be fair here. If I get some kind of new hardware that isn't supported in the Linux Kernel or in the tweaks that my distro has implemented, it isn't going to work until I log in and figure out how to get it to work. That's usually harder to do than to just log into Windows and install drivers that came with my device.
Yes, however all we're talking about here is a keyboard. It's not like a USB keyboard is some kind of novelty or unknown quantity.

This is neither an issue for Linux nor Mac OS X. My point is there's no reason it should be some kind of over-contrived issue with Windows, apart from the fact that Windows' design at a basic architecture level sucks, frankly.

[dmizer]

I'm not saying that Windows is better or worse, but relying on driver disks has it's own set of problems, especially when you don't know what hardware is attached, or if you've lost the original driver CD. Then, the only way to find out what hardware you have is to either open up the case and look, or boot to a live linux cd and check the output of lspci or lshw.