*Essential* Windows (or OS-X) apps in the workplace

[Gowator]

Ok .. this means essential not nice to have or convenient ...
Im looking for the *must have* apps that might prevent a company using ubuntu NOT games, not personal SW like MSmoney ...

I'd prefer to just leave Office out of it... we all know OO provides most functionality and that it doesn't do VB macro's etc. but IMHO any company depending on those deserves to go out of business anyway! If you are a translator or copy editor then perhaps this counts but the finance dept have these spreadsheets does not!

Examples: Web design company needs flash design, professional use of photoshop for pre-press etc.

[Malphas]

Probably most Adobe/Macromedia products.

[Gowator]

Probably most Adobe/Macromedia products.

Well I agree but if you have time I am as interested in why and special features that are needed .... and have no substitute ...

(for instance most of photoshop functionality can be duplicated even if the interface is different and quirky but GIMP only does 8bit color and cinepaint is lacking lots of stuff but does 16 bit! )

[SuperDiscoMachine V.5.7-3]

I'd prefer to just leave Office out of it... we all know OO provides most functionality and that it doesn't do VB macro's etc. but IMHO any company depending on those deserves to go out of business anyway!
No matter what you think of them, VB macros and programs that interact with MS Office are one of the major stumbling blocks when it comes to linux adoption. Just read up on the problems Munich is facing right now (Lot's of small legacy windows only apps, many of them just something thrown together to work with MS office.)

So just leaving them out doesn't make to much sense, imho.

[TeeAhr1]

Outlook's calandar functions. But we may be getting close. (http://chandler.osafoundation.org/)

[Gowator]

No matter what you think of them, VB macros and programs that interact with MS Office are one of the major stumbling blocks when it comes to linux adoption. Just read up on the problems Munich is facing right now (Lot's of small legacy windows only apps, many of them just something thrown together to work with MS office.)

So just leaving them out doesn't make to much sense, imho.

Yes and No .. Munich is just paying the price for using them earlier....
I have worked in IT for many years and seen Excel used as a project planner and world processor by finance depts and complex spreadsheets using macro's linked with tens of others. I once developed a whole load of stuff in asp (the precurser of MS .NET) which used access databases and only ran on IIS and have made lots of BIG databases in access many using huge oracle backends BUT ...

its a big but...

you pay for the development eitherway....
Access is Ok for prototyping but lousy for real development because porting it is so much work afterwards .... Using columns of spreadsheets as months and using colors to fill them is also pretty stpid but saves buying the project planning SW ... however I was once told how crap Excel is because the person who had used it for 5 yrs could no longer read the months ....

I have had whole access databases wrecked when Access2K came in .... and then the idiots rewrote them in Access2k... even though it was the updgrade from 97 to 2K that killed them in the first place!

So this is alrgely a self created problem and the longer corners have been cut for decent development and integration the more work but it will need doing anyway when MS fails to support older models. (My brother is stuck in Access97 for his whole customer and order database but who's fault is it ?) If he had done the job properly in the first place he wouldn't be stiuck now...

In the end the true cost of MS products is NOT the price tag it is the price of lock-in. This cost is paid many times over with windows upgrades but is considered a problem when converting to linux and freeing yourself.

[Gowator]

Outlook's calandar functions. But we may be getting close. (http://chandler.osafoundation.org/)

Well Evolution is also close but I think what you are missing is some of the exchange backend functionality ... however again IMHO many companies have tried implementing this and the only time something like the meeting manager is used is for the one traiing session on using the advanced calander functions!

I guess in some companies it works but in corporations it takes a very strong leadership to sack senior managers who refuse to use it and in my experience most seniro non-tech maangers will refuse to use it :D

p.s. nice link though ... I must give it a try

[nocturn]

For our site, what I can immediately identify

Mapinfo (GIS)
Hotspot (windows program to map nuclear disasters)
A host of modeling software (nuclear)

[curuxz]

I have 3 computers in my office 2 linux and then i can switch my second screen on my main pc to display a little win98 box I have under my desk.

The reason for this is one thing and one thing alone, Flash. I hate windows and I block it from anything but the local network but I need Flash for design. I can get my flash programs working in wine but they bomb out after a min or two :(

As far as graphic design goes, gimp rules in my book once you know how to use it you will never go back. Bluefish does my web codding work and Oo is way better than office (maybe a better UK spellchecker tho) :)

[DigitalDuality]

I need networking apps.

I really wish their was a nix version of Chicken fo the VNC, so much better than standard VNC apps, but i'd like a better compression rate as well (as seen in MS's Terminal Services/Remote Desktop).

Abobe and Macromedia products are a necessity sometimes. Depending on what i'm doing. I do think there needs to be an open source community geared towards creating an OpenOffice like suits to compete with Macromedia, Adobe, and in some regards Apple (Aperatue (sp?) ). Forget just conforming over and trying to edit or open their files, lets create our own standards in this regard. MS has noticed how important Adobe/macromedia (now under one ownership) are and is getting in the game of creating competing products..and time period of increased competition would be a great time for the open source crowd to stick their nose in.

I use Angry IP on a dialy basis too now that i don't have my Mac here with each user name/ip/comp name logged into a nice neat little list.

I tend to use Nvu/Blue Fish/Quanta/Dreamweaver on a bi-weekly basis as well.

And i use either Matel Print Shop Pro/MS Publisher/Scribus on a weekly basis.

Office/Outlook of course, and Give Me Too's packet sniffer.

[Rumor]

Im looking for the *must have* apps that might prevent a company using ubuntu

For our office, the programs we can't do without would include Quickbooks Pro, The Autodesk architectural drawing programs, SQL Server, UPS World Ship and a small interoffice messenging program that is no longer available from or supported by the company that made it :)

I'm sure there are equivalents to many of these, but the headache of converting and training people on new apps would probably be more trouble than it is worth.

[curuxz]

I really wish their was a nix version of Chicken fo the VNC, so much better than standard VNC apps, but i'd like a better compression rate as well (as seen in MS's Terminal Services/Remote Desktop).

Have you tried FreeNX?

[Gowator]

For our site, what I can immediately identify

Mapinfo (GIS)
Hotspot (windows program to map nuclear disasters)
A host of modeling software (nuclear)

Wow Im surprised the nucelar modelling stuff isn't available on UNIX (though perhaps it is but commercial only )

.. I had the same probs in my last job when esri/arc stopped unix support though we also used mapinfo.... though a java mutliplatform version s apparently available now (didn't try)

[nocturn]

Wow Im surprised the nucelar modelling stuff isn't available on UNIX (though perhaps it is but commercial only )

.. I had the same probs in my last job when esri/arc stopped unix support though we also used mapinfo.... though a java mutliplatform version s apparently available now (didn't try)

A lot of these things are developed by our own institute or others, which tend to use Windows mainly.

For a full migration of our institute (500+desktops), a lot of highly specialized programs would be needed, but then again, for thos, dedicated PC's could be used (as it is done now the other way arround with Unix and Linux boxes...).

Unfortunately, I don't have a say in it.

[prizrak]

Nocturn,
You ever checked out GRASS for GIS stuff? From what I hear it's as full featured as ArcGIS suite.

[nocturn]

Nocturn,
You ever checked out GRASS for GIS stuff? From what I hear it's as full featured as ArcGIS suite.

If it were up to me, we would check it out. But I'm not in the IT department or management here.

I work for radiation protection, making some software and I admin a HP-UX box (running specialized software) and a Linux webserver.

Linux and Unix are only used for specific applications here (we have a Linux compile cluster, but I do not have access to it).

[briancurtin]

where i have worked for a few summers, we are the 2nd largest MS customer i believe and we just get everything ever that they have made from a large repository. we also get full on-site/24hr support for products that are well beyond their end of life

we also have a ton of linux/unix servers, but i have only seen one linux desktop (FC4). solaris is also big, as there are many servers and a decent amount of desktops

we basically get anything we want at any time. essential to me are VS.NET, outlook, putty
note: those are essential only at work. i dont run windows at all on my computers

[Gowator]

Nocturn,
You ever checked out GRASS for GIS stuff? From what I hear it's as full featured as ArcGIS suite.
I must admit I never quite percevered getting it all working but then I was just curious ....

[Vlammetje]

Yes and No .. Munich is just paying the price for using them earlier....
I have worked in IT for many years and seen Excel used as a project planner and world processor by finance depts and complex spreadsheets using macro's linked with tens of others.

You could be describing my workplace there, we work with SUN and Vision (which is MS Excel pulling data from our databases in a nutshell) :(

Btw is there any hotel-management sw for linux? Guest in house, rooms maintenance, finances that sort of thing?

[Gowator]

You could be describing my workplace there, we work with SUN and Vision (which is MS Excel pulling data from our databases in a nutshell) :(

I think Im describing a lot of workplaces. This is the REAL secret of MS's success which is to give powerusers tools which lock them in and that the average poweruser can't tell the damage they are doing in the longer term.
In the end they will defend MS to the bone because they are the ones who put these tangled webs together!



Btw is there any hotel-management sw for linux? Guest in house, rooms maintenance, finances that sort of thing?
Good question ... I was recently looking for POS software for resto's for linux too but its either limited or the big manafacturer doesn't seem to want to give and spec's out when I eMailed them ... (weird)
It would be good to see a register of professional software that runs on linux as well as the home software equivalace lists :D

[anthro398]

Nocturn,
You ever checked out GRASS for GIS stuff? From what I hear it's as full featured as ArcGIS suite.

Oh, but if that were only true. ESRI ArcMap 9.1 is worlds ahead of Grass. That said, I wish to god more shops would either move to open GIS software or pressure ESRI to open up its formats. For example, the latest rage is storing data in spatial databases. Try exporting the data. Not easy and you come out with several other proprietary formats. Not cool. Anyway, you never get a choice of what software you'll use: you use what your shop uses, which is usually what the city and county government uses, which, in the US, is usually ESRI.

The UK successfully pressured software producers to conform to Open Geospatial Consortium guidelines and their file formats are open. This is a key point for the adoption of free software- pressure from users to open formats such as the Massachusetts/Microsoft XML battle.

[rpaller]

1) ER/Win
2) Expensable

Are the two that come to mind off hand that require me to maintain a Windows partition on my work computer.

[mohapi]

Probably most Adobe/Macromedia products.
If I could find something that would allow me to edit a pdf, I could throw out Windows for good. Well, maybe. I'd keep it around just to remind myself what life was like.