Linus Torvalds: "Please, just tell people to use KDE."

[logos34]

I was just reading this article (http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7346/1/) on KDE4. Now that they've ironed out some of the bugs and returned some missing functionality, I might give it a spin, if only for the nostalgia effect in general I get when I run kde (I started on Suse back when kde was the default).

I was surprised to learn Linus Torvalds prefers kde over gnome because of the extra gui tweak controls:


GNOME tries to keep things simple while KDE offers a plethora of options and puts more power in the hands of the user. Although he currently uses GNOME (due to his disappointment with the KDE 4.0 release), Linus Torvalds said: “This ‘users are idiots, and are confused by functionality’ mentality of GNOME is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it. I don’t use GNOME, because in striving to be simple, it has long since reached the point where it simply doesn’t do what I need it to do. Please, just tell people to use KDE.”

[edit. muddled late-night thoughts.]

I still prefer gnome. gtk2 looks good...I'd rather edit plain text files. although there's a part of me that likes lots of shiny buttons, sliders and dials

[newman]

KDE crashes too much. Every time I've tried it, I've had lots crashes. Gnome is very stable. Also, I don't care for KDE's default look - it's too much like windows.

[logos34]

KDE crashes too much. Every time I've tried it, I've had lots crashes. Gnome is very stable. Also, I don't care for KDE's default look - it's too much like windows.

windows-like...yeah, i guess kde4 is even more so, vista-ish in my book...which is one reason reason I may not try it out again...

[ad_267]

I never used KDE 3 but I'm using KDE 4.1 at University and I'm trying out KDE 4.3 beta and Kubuntu 9.10 on my home computer. On KDE 4.3 lot of stuff just doesn't work at the moment, and I get a lot of segmentation faults. I guess this is to be expected from a beta release, but I've also experienced a lot of crashes with earlier stable releases. I think there's a lot of maturing to do, but KDE 4.3 is shaping up to be really nice.

I do really like the look and customisation options. Plasma is nice and I really like Dolphin, Okular, Digikam and Gwenview. They're much more fully featured compared to their Gnome counterparts. I also like how all system settings are grouped under one interface. I'm not a big fan of Amarok though, I just don't like the interface. I much prefer the way Banshee and Rhythmbox work.

[LepeKaname]

I loved KDE3 (as I point it out in my signature), I used to use Kubuntu, but when they updated to KDE4 I was really disappointed. It looks good but functionality is first. I change then to Xubuntu and I will not go back. I also use Ubuntu in my work and I feel really comfortable with both. Its a pity we can't have KDE3 anymore :( .

[Wanas]

I am 100% agree with ad_267
I have used kde in every new release I think, but I got lost in its so much options that I wont need in life, Gnome and the gnome applications do the job in the right way I love totem and rythombox that I cant live without them right now.

But I trust that (kde for the kde users and gnome for gnome user) I think its hard to change from one environment to another easily

[yoasif]

he later switched back to GNOME (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Software&articleId=9126619&taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=5).

[Wanas]

I dont care what he uses, I care what is the best for me

[ad_267]

he later switched back to GNOME (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Software&articleId=9126619&taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=5).

That's already mentioned in the first post.

Although he currently uses GNOME (due to his disappointment with the KDE 4.0 release)

[Invincible23]

DE's are like wine. Some like red, some like white. Both have qualities that carter to people's different tastes.

I like GNOME and KDE but for some time now i've been using Xfce, that's doesn't mean i hate GNOME or KDE. It's just that i can accomplish my work better on this low powered system using Xfce. This is the power that linux provides to it's user. I would be stuck on BSOD screen if i had tried to use vista on this system.

[logos34]

I do really like the look and customisation options. Plasma is nice and I really like Dolphin, Okular, Digikam and Gwenview. They're much more fully featured compared to their Gnome counterparts. I also like how all system settings are grouped under one interface. I'm not a big fan of Amarok though, I just don't like the interface. I much prefer the way Banshee and Rhythmbox work.

funny, I'm just the opposite--a gnome user who loves k3b and amarok (1.4.9--can't stand what they've done to amarok2!)

Linus is right about the first release of kde4--it was a disaster. Totally dysfunctional compared to 3. I tried it on Mandriva Spring08, looked real slick but a lot of keyboard shortcuts had been eliminated...just couldn't stand certain things. I wanted to use it but in the end there were too many problems. I'm sure 4.3 is a big improvement, but I really doubt I would ever switch

[yesint]

I'm trying KDE 4.x now and then, but it is still extremely unstable. Latest Mandriva 2009 crashed each time I want to change the theme. The way of customizing the panels and other things is simply beyond my understanding - the optiong are scattered in three different places. "No, thanks".

[theozzlives]

The only thing I like about KDE is Amarok 1.4... keep in mind that 2.0 REALLY SUCKS!

[bodhi.zazen]

Moved to recurring discussions as it does not appear to be a request for support and the advantages / disadvantages of KDE is a recurring topic.

Please keep the conversation civil ;)

[wersdaluv]

That's old. Months ago, Linus switched to GNOME because of his disappointment on KDE4

[Tibuda]

DE's are like wine. Some like red, some like white. Both have qualities that carter to people's different tastes.

I like GNOME and KDE but for some time now i've been using Xfce, that's doesn't mean i hate GNOME or KDE. It's just that i can accomplish my work better on this low powered system using Xfce. This is the power that linux provides to it's user. I would be stuck on BSOD screen if i had tried to use vista on this system.

Yes! Why the need for those flame wars? Use what works for you. I can use Qt applications in my Gnome, and they work fine.

[rookcifer]

KDE crashes too much. Every time I've tried it, I've had lots crashes. Gnome is very stable. Also, I don't care for KDE's default look - it's too much like windows.

Never had a crash with KDE 4.2 here. Not once. It's memory footprint is less than 3.5.9 as well. Now KDE 4.0 was a different story. I had crashes with it and I hated it because most of the functionality was taken away. However, things have dramatically improved with 4.2.

As for Amarok 2, I didn't care for it much at first either. However, it is still essentially beta software. It wont have most of its old functionality back until 2.1, which should be stable soon. (Part of the problem lies with QT 4.5, the Amarok devs are having to work around some limitations).

[CharmyBee]

Wait till GNOME 3. Now what would Linus do then!

[Name change]

He'll probably migrate to E17 :D.
On end he'll have to use gnu screen...

Serves him right for abandoning KDE :D.

On more serious note:
Why should we care what Linus uses. If he uses Gnome so what if he was using KDE so what...
Use what you like not what Linus or RMS or someone else is using.

They all secretly use W7 RC on MacBook Pro anyway :D

[mancha]

He moves from kde4.0 to Gnome which I can understrand, but kde (latest) is just too good for Gnome (in a different league) and now he has slated Gnome, priceless, Torvalds is a well known long time kde user so I guess it is true that once bitten forever smitten

:lol: hahahahahaha

[MikeTheC]

On the one hand I have a lot of respect for Linus, but on the other I can't help but think what a hypocrite he comes off as being.

I use Gnome and not KDE because I find Gnome's approach to be cleaner and nicer in a way that evokes much of the simple elegance of Mac OS Classic's Finder, and Mac OS X's Aqua desktop. KDE, on the other hand, feels like the Windows desktop (all glitz and candy-coated shiny buttons) on steroids.

Maybe that works for some people or appeals to their aesthetic sensibilities, but it sure doesn't appeal to me.

[mancha]

On the one hand I have a lot of respect for Linus, but on the other I can't help but think what a hypocrite he comes off as being.

I use Gnome and not KDE because I find Gnome's approach to be cleaner and nicer in a way that evokes much of the simple elegance of Mac OS Classic's Finder, and Mac OS X's Aqua desktop. KDE, on the other hand, feels like the Windows desktop (all glitz and candy-coated shiny buttons) on steroids.

Maybe that works for some people or appeals to their aesthetic sensibilities, but it sure doesn't appeal to me.


Not convinced, Both kde and Gnome can be made to look like Windows or Mac (kde4 has a mac-bar like finder) ;)

[khelben1979]

I experience KDE 3.5.10 which is part of Debian Lenny to be very robust. I like it, personally. Never use Gnome nowadays.

[newman]

Not convinced, Both kde and Gnome can be made to look like Windows or Mac (kde4 has a mac-bar like finder) ;)

yes both can be made to look like mac, but kde will always crash.

[Name change]

yes both can be made to look like mac, but kde will always crash.
Yes if you're incompetent user....
I've used KDE since 4.0 and seen it crash maybe twice. And the reason for crashing was soon discovered and repaired.
So I have no idea how would KDE just keep crashing.

I would add that one thing that is bad in KDE4 series is that plasma is one processs.
That's what most people mean by KDE crashing. KDE as whole doesn't crash only plasma crashes. And KDE devs are aware of this and will try to find a fast solution to it.
The best would offcourse be that every "plasmoid" would be it's own process.

[Tipped OuT]

My opinion

GNOME is light weight, for what it can do, and is much more original, stabler, and easy to use then KDE.

KDE is more heavier, and a bigger toll on older hardware. It resembles Windows too much, and it's very unstable. The taskbar is always cluttered with huge icons, and you can hardly tell what's going on. Also, everything where you'd expect it to be, is not. Took me a half an hour just to find the package manager.

I honestly can't see why people like it, if it's because of the transparency effects, and the fact that it looks like Windows... might as well just jump on the bandwagon and use Windows 7. It has transparency, animations, the over sized taskbar with huge icons and it IS Windows.

Opinion over

[newman]

Yes if you're incompetent user....
I've used KDE since 4.0 and seen it crash maybe twice. And the reason for crashing was soon discovered and repaired.
So I have no idea how would KDE just keep crashing.

I would add that one thing that is bad in KDE4 series is that plasma is one processs.
That's what most people mean by KDE crashing. KDE as whole doesn't crash only plasma crashes. And KDE devs are aware of this and will try to find a fast solution to it.
The best would offcourse be that every "plasmoid" would be it's own process.

How is that being an incompetent user?

I've done a fresh install of KDE every time. How does that make one an incompetent user if the DE in unstable?

BTW - there is no apostrophe in the possessive form of "it."

[starcannon]

Use what you like, Linus does.
I like Gnome or XFCE myself. KDE is sweet and all, but damn its heavy.

Oh did I also mention I'm a lazy git who is not going to learn where all the stuff is in the KDE menu's unless I'm forced? I'm so damn lazy, I'm the kind of guy who has some Christmas Dinner leftovers left in my fridge on the 4th of July (btw, no, thats not potato salad, for gods sakes DON'T OPEN THE CONTAINER!!!)

[uberdonkey5]

I have gnome on my main computer and kde on my eeepc. Why? Because they are the default. Customisation is all very well, but in the last two years I have reinstalled ubuntu maybe 6 times on my main computer. I just don't want too much hassle in altering everything.... I just have a list of software to download (infact I am thinking of creating a custom disk of my install).

IMHO gnome is better 'out of the box'... simple and intuitive, what's wrong with that? I expect linus spends his time finding bright shiney applets and new wallpaper.

[Name change]

How is that being an incompetent user?

I've done a fresh install of KDE every time. How does that make one an incompetent user if the DE in unstable?

BTW - there is no apostrophe in the possessive form of "it."
How could I miss that :D.

Anyway I really don't know what you, or any other for that matter, are doing with KDE,
but it works fine for me.
I might be "overzealous" which doesn't happen very often but you were just "flaming".
Use Gnome or whatever you wish, just don't judge whole DE through your personal experience.
With that I would be entitled to say that Gnome is not only ugly, but just a mess with settings and that there are not enough options to get it working right.
But that's just my view. Yours is probably different.
Use what suits you and don't judge those that don't use it.
Yeah I know I got carried away with my previous post, and I would like to apologize for that.

[jprophet420]

IMHO KDE pwns Gnome pretty hard, but thats whats beautiful is that theres not a windows forum where people are debating what desktop they like better right now.

[mancha]

IMHO KDE pwns Gnome pretty hard, but thats whats beautiful is that theres not a windows forum where people are debating what desktop they like better right now.

True but, Microsoft Windows users would say that Linux users need to finnish the war between themselves before they start to compete with other systems.

[rookcifer]

True but, Microsoft Windows users would say that Linux users need to finnish the war between themselves before they start to compete with other systems.

And Linux users don't care what M$ users say.

[ad_267]

True but, Microsoft Windows users would say that Linux users need to finnish the war between themselves before they start to compete with other systems.

Not everyone sees it as a war, a lot of us just like having the option to choose.

[logos34]

yes, it's nice to have the luxury of choice of DEs--not to had in Windows and Mac-land.

A lot of people have mentioned KDE crashing a lot, and that's my experience too. Gnome apps rarely do

But one thing I like is how much quicker it is, despite (or because of) the heavy ram footprint (it's like all the qt-libs are preloaded/prelinked or sth)

OTH it's too easy to get lost in all those settings controls. A lot of the time I can't remember where they're located!

so it's a mixed bag, like everything

[CharmyBee]

IMHO KDE pwns Gnome pretty hard, but thats whats beautiful is that theres not a windows forum where people are debating what desktop they like better right now.

There used to be in 1997. Win95 shell vs Enhanced IE4 shell anyone?

[starcannon]

There used to be in 1997. Win95 shell vs Enhanced IE4 shell anyone?

And that was the beginning of the end imo; tying the file system together so intimately with the web browser; it was only natural that viruses would mushroom on the OS.

[CJ Master]

And that was the beginning of the end imo; tying the file system together so intimately with the web browser; it was only natural that viruses would mushroom on the OS.

Hello, this is WINDOWS 95 we're talking about! If I can run ANY code on the computer, I could do anything. There's no such thing as privileges.

(And everyone knows that ActiveX security is/was a pushover.)

[pmlxuser]

it's too much like windows.

exactly why i stick to gnome. If you leave a girl friend and try to get another one that looks like her, why not just go back to her.

[ad_267]

exactly why i stick to gnome. If you leave a girl friend and try to get another one that looks like her, why not just go back to her.

Because there's more to a girl/operating system than just looks...

[k2t0f12d]

True but, Microsoft Windows users would say that Linux users need to finnish the war between themselves before they start to compete with other systems.Thats hilarious considering the infighting and politics at Microsoft's campus.

[densou]

KDE crashes too much. Every time I've tried it, I've had lots crashes.

+1 (never tried kde 4.x .... I was already tired of so-called STABLE 3.x)

and my parents recognized Gnome as more user-friendly (that's why I choose Ubuntu for them, they needed a simple thing ;) )


True but, Microsoft Windows users would say that Linux users need to finnish the war between themselves before they start to compete with other systems.

:lolflag::biggrin::mrgreen:

[majamba]

if want a stable kde use kde3 on debian

i am using kde4 because of the customization its goots and the looks

offcourse if it is far from stable with more releases it will get better u how do you think kde3 started

[donkyhotay]

Linux is about choice, users are allowed to use any desktop they want or even create their own. Personally I prefer gnome because I find KDE very awkward and unwieldy. Now I agree that gnome isn't for everyone and I can understand why people choose to use KDE, XFCE, etc. I just don't understand what the fuss is all about. Now linux vs windows on the other hand...

[Mason Whitaker]

The desktop doesn't matter anyways, I'd be perfectly fine without a GUI.

Isn't this the same Linux Torvalds who switched to Gnome a while back?