Asus: "It's better with windows"

[Brinstar]

just read the post, relevant to all Linux users.

http://popey.com/Asus_The_Fair_Weather_Friend

[.Maleficus.]

Sorry, but that guy is an idiot. He got so worked up about Asus advertising Windows that he now will not buy from them? Whatever, his loss, Asus makes superb hardware and is a big Linux user (Eee PCs, Asus Express Gate).

[MikeTheC]

Very nice letter, worth of even me.

There is no constancy in the technology world but contracts.

[pwnst*r]

that Seashell would be sexy in black.

[subdivision]

Sorry, but that guy is an idiot. He got so worked up about Asus advertising Windows that he now will not buy from them? Whatever, his loss, Asus makes superb hardware and is a big Linux user (Eee PCs, Asus Express Gate).

Right. How dare Asus advertise it's products.

I also concur, it is his loss. Asus makes some great products.

[hyperdude111]

If you look http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html as linked to on the page is NOT part of the actual asus site. This is ran by a third party.

http://www.asus.co.uk is what is linked to here (It then takes you to the next link)
http://uk.asus.com/ the official asus uk page

Spot the difference. My guess is that the people who made "Its better with windows" also made this bogey page.

[Brinstar]

If you look http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html as linked to on the page is NOT part of the actual asus site. This is ran by a third party.

http://www.asus.co.uk is what is linked to here (It then takes you to the next link)
http://uk.asus.com/ the official asus uk page

Spot the difference. My guess is that the people who made "Its better with windows" also made this bogey page.


they are both clearly asus sites, one is for marketing, other is for support.



Sorry, but that guy is an idiot. He got so worked up about Asus advertising Windows that he now will not buy from them? Whatever, his loss, Asus makes superb hardware and is a big Linux user (Eee PCs, Asus Express Gate).

not quite, he got worked up for the reasons he mentioned if you bothered to read the post he made. he made good points about the age of winxp and the security/stability aspects. its not his loss, its Asus's, they make average hardware and were in the right place at the right time with the Eee. now that everyone is making their own 'Eee' clone, i dont think their success is going to last.


Right. How dare Asus advertise it's products.

I also concur, it is his loss. Asus makes some great products.

you miss the point entirely. the point is why does Asus feel the need to advertise an 8yr old system over a recent one (Xandros)? They are actively encouraging people to use winxp, who may otherwise have been happy with linux. why? why go out of your way to show winxp to someone who could have got along happily with linux. i see no other reason than to please microsoft.

[mikewhatever]

i bought my latest HP lappie w/ windows.

Hello there Mr Laconic. I have no particular problem with people buying Windows when they need it. That said, Windows XP is an eight year old and soon too be obsolete OS. Who in their right minds will choose paying for it? Don't they have anything better to do with their money?

[pwnst*r]

Don't they have anything better to do with their money?

maybe not.

[mikewhatever]

maybe not.

Well, you know.

Oh dear, what happened to my first post?

[starcannon]

I think Asus wanted XP on their netbooks from day one. But when they first released the 7xx series Microsoft insisted that they run Vista, or go away; so Asus went away, away to Xandros. Millions of these little units sold, Microsoft had overlooked a market yet again. By the time the error had been realized millions of netbooks of various makes and models had hit the streets running a Linux native OS from the factory; MS had no choice, they had to set up special oem licensing for netbooks, the people demanded netbooks, and if Linux was the only option, so be it, they would run it. Asus won the battle, they got XP brought back out of mothballs, and of course they are going to use the spoils of their victory.

Anyway, thats my take on the way things went down, gleaned from tech news articles from around the net. Do a little digging and see what perspective you come out with. If nothing else its interesting to talk about.

[aysiu]

I have to agree with Pope that this is lame.

I know vendors need to make money, and I know XP netbooks will generally sell better than Linux netbooks, but to link to itsbetterwithwindows? Not cool.

Back in the day, Asus used to advertised the Linux version as for ordinary users and the XP version as for power users. Now, apparently, Windows isn't just another option... it's "better."

[.Maleficus.]

1. It is an Asus website. At the bottom: "ASUSTek (UK) Ltd. (c) 2009"

2. The computer doesn't come with Linux AT ALL. Look at the specifications page on the site. They aren't slapping Linux in the face by not advertising it, it plain does not have Linux.

3.

not quite, he got worked up for the reasons he mentioned if you bothered to read the post he made. he made good points about the age of winxp and the security/stability aspects. its not his loss, its Asus's, they make average hardware and were in the right place at the right time with the Eee. now that everyone is making their own 'Eee' clone, i dont think their success is going to last.
I did read the post he made, and I still think he's an idiot. Why? His point about virus protection is invalid - it comes with a 60 day trial of Norton. His point about "Trusted" and "...delivers a dependable experience..." is also invalid - XP is a trusted OS and for 9 years has been dependable. Prove otherwise. About the product key - I work at Geek Squad and get to set up XP netbooks for customers almost daily. I have never once had to enter a product key to get it running. Unless Asus uses a special version of XP on this particular netbook, that point again is invalid. Updates - You have to update every other OS too, you can't possibly think that is a good complaint. No Java/Flash? Ubuntu doesn't come with Flash and the Java on it is terrible (IIRC, I don't use Ubuntu but I know it doesn't come with Sun Java). Codecs? Ubuntu can't even play MP3s out of the box, and the only codecs that XP can't play natively Xandros probably can't either (don't say OGG, only Linux users use that). Drivers? Wow, navigating to the vendors website and downloading an .EXE is a real pain... And Microsoft hasn't said that XP is dead. They encourage people to upgrade but have extended their support of XP because they realize it is the only viable option for netbooks.

There is very little behind is argument. Again, his loss, Asus is a great manufacturer. Well, actually, based on the number of non-Asus Linux netbooks (which on BestBuy.com is currently 0), I'd say he'll probably be an Asus customer again.

*Side note - his entire rant is almost completely invalid too. Both Sony and HP offer Vista netbooks, so if he doesn't like XP he doesn't have to get it.

[cmat]

Back in the day, Asus used to advertised the Linux version as for ordinary users and the XP version as for power users. Now, apparently, Windows isn't just another option... it's "better."

I'm going to call foul and say that Microsoft is pulling an Intel here. There are absolutely no merits to pick Windows over Linux on netbooks, desktops maybe but not netbooks. I guess my nokia phone can't make phone calls since it's not running windows mobile.

[HermanAB]

The simple fact is that WinXP is better for most people.

However, I make good pocket money from making netbooks dual boot Linux/Windows, since some people do appreciate that Linux is more secure and more appropriate for road warrior use.

[aysiu]

The simple fact is that WinXP is better for most people. I don't think that is a simple fact at all.

And if it is, why dedicate and link to a whole propaganda site trying to convince people that Windows is better?

[blastus]

This is why you should never take anything at face value a manufacturer says about its products. If a consumer is so ignorant to believe everything advertised/marketed about a product, then they deserve the product. It's even worse if a consumer believes what a manufacturer says about a competitor product.

Manufacturers are out to make money so whatever deception, slight-of-hand, untruths and shades of gray, or just plain BS they have to make up then that's what they'll do. Honestly, almost all marketing campaigns are like reading something from a cracker jack box.

[Brinstar]

I don't think that is a simple fact at all.

And if it is, why dedicate and link to a whole propaganda site trying to convince people that Windows is better?

exactly my point, most average people wouldn't need convincing that they need Windows, they would just go along with it as they've done for years, here its like 'well we need to convince Average Joe that he *has* to run Windows or else', seriously nasty move from Asus.

Why would Asus not want Linux to succeed? As i said earlier, Microsoft has got their dirty hands into this.

[meeples]

it looks to me if asus sold as many linux netbooks as they did they wouldnt stop selling them all together unless someone paid them alot of money to do so....

oh did u hear microsoft's profits are down for the first time in years?

i wonder where that money went....

[monsterstack]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I had a quick look and didn't see anything forthcoming. Check it out!

http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com/

Nice bit of marketing from Asus, there. This must be part of their "I'm so sorry for making a Linux-based netbook--I'll never do it again!" apology package for Microsoft.

Edit: It seems lots of people reckon this is all fake. For anyone who hasn't seen this, yet, I kindly refer you to exhibit A, the marketing gobbledygook from Asus' wbsite:


Asus (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk] says:
It's better with Windows®

The Eee PC™ 1008HA comes pre-loaded with Microsoft Windows XP Home and Microsoft Works. With Windows® XP, you can be sure that your Eee PC™ will be compatible with your existing Windows applications and devices. Windows® XP is also easy to use and delivers a dependable experience that Microsoft and a worldwide community of partners stand behind. Visit www.ItsBetterwithWindows.com » to find out more.

ANOTHER EDIT: Looks like this story has already been posted, here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1161352) [ubuntuforums.org]. Bummer.

[hanzomon4]

I barfed a little in my mouth...

[nolliecrooked]

that looks pretty crappy if its actually a real site...

[Deamos]

Meh. Disappointing. I am so sick of seeing people praise WinXP. It was a nice OS, but it was plagued full of security issues and had a major tendency to degrade in performance the longer it was installed. Even Vista was a minor improvement, at least in the security corner. I know they arn't going to promote that for Netbooks.

Honestly, the website looks like crap on my 22 inch screen in FF.

[monsterstack]

that looks pretty crappy if its actually a real site...

Source: http://popey.com/Asus_The_Fair_Weather_Friend


Now 18 months have passed and I notice new models are on the horizon carrying the Eee PC moniker. A friend of mine pointed out the Eee PC Seashell (1008HA) for example, which looks very nice on the website http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html. But hang on, what's this. I'm now told by your marketing department that "It's better with Windows®", and I am invited to find out more by clicking a link to http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com/.

The site you link to is not new to me, but it's the first time I've seen a vendor link to it, indeed it's the first time I've seen a vendor of hardware that runs Linux link to it. Forgive me for saying this but it seems that you've kicked the Linux community squarely in the teeth with this one. I applaud you for bringing Linux to the mass market with the Eee 701, but that good work is all but undone with this stunt. I can only presume it's a stunt of course.

Follow the link to Asus' features page to see their marketing spiel in full flow:


Asus (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk] says:
It's better with Windows®

The Eee PC™ 1008HA comes pre-loaded with Microsoft Windows XP Home and Microsoft Works. With Windows® XP, you can be sure that your Eee PC™ will be compatible with your existing Windows applications and devices. Windows® XP is also easy to use and delivers a dependable experience that Microsoft and a worldwide community of partners stand behind. Visit www.ItsBetterwithWindows.com » to find out more.

[PurposeOfReason]

If you think the above site is real, you are a fool. I realize it is linked on ASUSs site, but something seems off here. The presentation and domain name. . . .

[lisati]

Kinda reminiscent of a "ten things you can do with Windows" I saw recently. I gave up flicking through it after reading a bunch of stuff that Ubuntu does just as well.

[nolliecrooked]

Source: http://popey.com/Asus_The_Fair_Weather_Friend

yeah, I cba to read all that at 3am. sorry. it looks fake.

[CharmyBee]

Sure is a lot of JPEG artifacts on this professional company site. It almost makes me doubt of its credibility.

[K.Mandla]

The site must be broken. Nothing appeared when I tried to open it with ELinks in Crux.

I barfed a little in my mouth...
I lol'd.

[Dr.Vista]

It's a bad site. Look at their rating here.
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/itsbetterwithwindows.com

[Tipped OuT]

If only Linux users, developers, and communities can wake up instead of blowing your own horns and writing true (but sad) letters like this, Linux may one day be THE one that pc manufacturers wanted to install by default because it cause them next to nothing.

read this (http://www.ranum.com/editorials/divide-conquer/index.html) and understand what is really happening to the Linux community. Most of what is written in the next is true and like it said, Sun is "dead" by now :(

Even sadder - opensuse and ubuntu is making Linux (and its users) to behave like like windows (just click on everything mentality?)


...

[lisati]

It's a bad site. Look at their rating here.
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/itsbetterwithwindows.com

http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/www.ubuntuforums.org does heaps better

[monsterstack]

It's a bad site. Look at their rating here.
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/itsbetterwithwindows.com


Sure is a lot of JPEG artifacts on this professional company site. It almost makes me doubt of its credibility.


yeah, I cba to read all that at 3am. sorry. it looks fake.


If you think the above site is real, you are a fool. I realize it is linked on ASUSs site, but something seems off here. The presentation and domain name. . . .


Meh. Disappointing. I am so sick of seeing people praise WinXP. It was a nice OS, but it was plagued full of security issues and had a major tendency to degrade in performance the longer it was installed. Even Vista was a minor improvement, at least in the security corner. I know they arn't going to promote that for Netbooks.

Honestly, the website looks like crap on my 22 inch screen in FF.


that looks pretty crappy if its actually a real site...

Looks fake? Badly made? Dodgy site? Sure, but none of that changes the fact that it is linked to on Asus' website.

[hanzomon4]

Looks fake? Badly made? Dodgy site? Sure, but none of that changes the fact that it is linked to on Asus' website.

Oh snap!! pwnd

[SunnyRabbiera]

We can probably do better though, I wonder if someone has come out with a linux parody of this.

[nolliecrooked]

Looks fake? Badly made? Dodgy site? Sure, but none of that changes the fact that it is linked to on Asus' website.

my bad.

[PurposeOfReason]

Looks fake? Badly made? Dodgy site? Sure, but none of that changes the fact that it is linked to on Asus' website.


Oh snap!! pwnd
I'd hope most people wouldn't trust a site like that, it's internet 101.

[damis648]

Wow, I liked Asus. Now I don't. :(

[Rainstride]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I had a quick look and didn't see anything forthcoming. Check it out!

http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com/

Nice bit of marketing from Asus, there. This must be part of their "I'm so sorry for making a Linux-based netbook--I'll never do it again!" apology package for Microsoft.

Edit: It seems lots of people reckon this is all fake. For anyone who hasn't seen this, yet, I kindly refer you to exhibit A, the marketing gobbledygook from Asus' wbsite:

WTF did i just watch?!? looks like my netbook choice is going to be dell.....and i hate dell....

[zurack]

Asus still roll out linux http://event.asus.com/eeepc/microsites/color/en/specs.html

so the original post is probably a load of tut

[monsterstack]

Asus still roll out linux http://event.asus.com/eeepc/microsites/color/en/specs.html

so the original post is probably a load of tut

As far as the "I'll never do it again!" goes, sure: a load of old tut. Asus were one of the first to roll out computers with pre-installed Linux, and they do still offer it. But then I was being facetious.

The point is, if they are offering Linux, why on earth do they need to use that repugnant site to convince people to do otherwise?

[starcannon]

Meh, whatever floats yer boat. I like my Ubuntu.

[nolliecrooked]

Asus still roll out linux http://event.asus.com/eeepc/microsites/color/en/specs.html

so the original post is probably a load of tut

the should make a site called irolewithepenguin.com, for linux...

[drawkcab]

I just wanted to add that I think Xandros was a failure. Some have said that Asus ate 1 out of 5 linux netbooks. The problem is that Xandros didn't provide users with the right gui and applications. In the ssd models, Xandros auto-updated so as to take up the entire drive.

Asus would have been much better off had it approached another distribution and taken more care to make sure that the OS and hardware were suited to one another. But my guess is that argument cannot be made at a time when they are undercutting their own sales with dirt-cheap, refurbished eeepcs (yes, I bought one too). So windows it will be from now on.

Ubuntu NBR is a day late and a dollar short in the netbook game but it may have a chance with this next line up of Dell minis. Hopefully it is taking note of the failure of Xandros and the success of distributions like eeebuntu.

[Dharmachakra]

I'd hope most people wouldn't trust a site like that, it's internet 101.

Not really... it's linked from a credible site and has been for awhile. Ugly? Hell yeah. Fake? Probably not.

[monsterstack]

Oh poop. Looks like this story has already been posted.

[Corelogik]

The whois look up of the domain name http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com, returns the following;


Registrant:
Michael Sharp
12932 SE Kent-Kangley Rd.
Box 238
Kent, Washington 98030
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: ITSBETTERWITHWINDOWS.COM
Created on: 05-Dec-08
Expires on: 05-Dec-09
Last Updated on: 05-Dec-08

Administrative Contact:
Sharp, Michael rdcpro@hotmail.com
12932 SE Kent-Kangley Rd.
Box 238
Kent, Washington 98030
United States
(877) 788-8066 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Sharp, Michael rdcpro@hotmail.com
12932 SE Kent-Kangley Rd.
Box 238
Kent, Washington 98030
United States
(877) 788-8066 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS61.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS62.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

and http://www.asustek.co.uk returns the following;


Domain name:
asustek.co.uk

Registrant:
Progressive Solutions

Registrant type:
Non-UK Corporation

Registrant's address:
PO Box 1136
Manawatu
Palmerston North
4440
NZ

Registrar:
Coherent Limited [Tag = COHERENT-NZ]

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 16-Apr-2009
Renewal date: 16-Apr-2011
Last updated: 05-May-2009

Registration status:
Registration request being processed.

Name servers:
ns1.dsredirection.com
ns2.dsredirection.com

I'd say some ad firm is at work here, not the official Asus company.

[monsterstack]

The whois look up of the domain name http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com, returns the following;



and http://www.asustek.co.uk returns the following;



I'd say some ad firm is at work here, not the official Asus company.

Yes. I had a look to if I could find out just who that chap is. I imagine he's part of some PR company or other.

[starcannon]

Michael Sharp (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.aaaa.org%2Ftoptemplate%2Fmed ia09%2FDocuments%2Fmedia09_attendee_company.pdf&ei=MekQStjKIJeatAPPjoz7Ag&rct=j&q=%22Michael+Sharp%22+Kent+WA+advertising&usg=AFQjCNGC3pzu4n3NlzViJDd8SXZU8zqvIA&sig2=jrlOXYYHB9Q668Qwzy-R0Q)
Arbitron Inc. is a media and marketing research firm

Now we know it wasn't likely a fan site.

[Brinstar]

The whois look up of the domain name http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com, returns the following;



and http://www.asustek.co.uk returns the following;



I'd say some ad firm is at work here, not the official Asus company.

duh, who do you think is paying the ad company?

[lefen]

I just wanted to add that I think Xandros was a failure.

Seconded, I found Xandros to be really unstable; it'd regularly crash when I inserted anyone of a number of USB flash drives, and would regularly boot with the touchpad nonresponsive. At that point I gave up, installed eeebuntu and never looked back.

Having said that, I think where Xandros fell-down was that it seemed to want you to use the eee as a device (like a mobile phone), rather than as a computer. Perhaps plenty of people who didn't like the Linux option felt restricted; like they had intended to buy a computer, but ended up with something else?

My thoughts, and as an aside, eeebuntu base has served me well, but I'm really excited about Moblin!

[mattgaunt]

My main confusion with all of this is - why now? Microsoft are still trying to work out their next step in terms of netbooks and Windows 7 because they aren't liking the massive losses from using Windows XP but Asus aren't happy with the whole Windows 7 Start Idea.

To me I think all netbook manufacturers have got alot of cards on the table to choose from.

Even if Windows 7 Starter gets put on netbooks I think Ubuntu will work it's way around most of the netbooks in this case - Just need the good old Ubuntu Dev's to make sure that it works A O.K. for the newbies :-)

[zekopeko]

the main problem with asus and them using linux is the OUTDATED distro they preload on their netbook.
netbooks are static platforms. they should be able to upgrade them every so often since the hardware in them is always known.

[Psy-Q]

Whether it's a bad campaign and will be forgotten or not, I still think it's extremely sleazy of ASUS to do this.

So here is http://www.itsbetterwithoutwindows.com

If you like, we can expand that to a blog that lists all things that are better without Windows :)

[Tristam Green]

Just as an aside, this does not show up on the US Asus website:

http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2912&modelmenu=1

Likewise, browsing to www.asus.com and actually following the site to its spec page about the 1000HA doesn't yield the "itsbetterwithwindows" links:

http://uk.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2912&modelmenu=1


Furthermore:

whois information for asus.co.uk (the site with the link):
http://whois.domaintools.com/asus.co.uk

Domain name:
asus.co.uk

Registrant:
Asustek Computer Inc

Trading as:
Asus

Registrant type:
UK Individual

Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their
address omitted from the WHOIS service.

Registrar:
1 & 1 Internet AG [Tag = SCHLUND]
URL: http://registrar.1und1.info

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 23-May-1997
Renewal date: 23-May-2011
Last updated: 22-May-2009

Registration status:
Renewal request being processed.

Name servers:
ns59.1and1.co.uk
ns60.1and1.co.uk

whois lookup for asus.com/uk:

http://whois.domaintools.com/asus.com

Registrant:
Asus Computer International
800 Corporate Way
Fremont, CA 94539
US

Domain Name: ASUS.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Yao, Charles
Asus Computer International
800 Corporate Way
Fremont, CA 94539
US
(510) 608-4527 fax: 999 999 9999

Record expires on 24-Oct-2011.
Record created on 25-Oct-1995.
Database last updated on 29-May-2009 08:59:34 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS3.ASUS.COM 211.72.249.201
DNS7.ASUS.COM 213.61.92.192

Fake, anyone?

[Brinstar]

Whether it's a bad campaign and will be forgotten or not, I still think it's extremely sleazy of ASUS to do this.

So here is http://www.itsbetterwithoutwindows.com

If you like, we can expand that to a blog that lists all things that are better without Windows :)

the reason they need to use these dirty tricks is because the product is inferior and they know it. the proof is in the pudding.

the best way to fight back is to influence those around you to use linux. i have successfully got 2 (possibly nearly 3) family members on ubuntu. may not be a lot, but i feel i have made some difference. ironically, microsoft did their part in helping me switch my mother over. she got so fed up with vista's slowness on a *new dual-core Dell* that she wanted rid of it. microsofts bloat is finally starting to 'persuade' average people to switch.

[Tristam Green]

Additionally, the official Asus site for the 1000HA's spec sheet: (UK version)


Operating System

Genuine Windows® XP Home
(*Pre-installed with Microsoft Office Home & Student 2007 60-day Trial and vary by country)

GNU Linux

[Dimitriid]

Just for kicks I'll be more makiavelical: There is no logical reason to not choose a better Linux alternative, unless Asus didn't really wanted to succeed with that very limited run of linux based systems and just took a very bad example of linux and claim "See? we tried and it didn't work"

It would be like me taking a copy of Windows ME on very unsupported hardware and say "see? I told you windows is useless" when supported hardware on XP would have been night and day.

Maybe Asus wanted to fail to show the world Linux "is not ready". Whenever or not that was the intention, the damage is done already.

[slick666]

www.itsbetterwithwindows.com

WTF asus?

Has anyone else seen this? It's kind of old news on slashdot but I'm surprised Asus is making this move (I'm not surprised windows is doing it).

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/05/28/0321251/Asus-Slaps-Linux-In-the-Face

Has anyone else seen a push for windows in the netbook market?

[fatality_uk]

I seem to remeber this isnt an ASUS site, but an individual. Could be wrong

[Tristam Green]

Been reported on this site already; I checked whois information from that particular site and the "AsusTEK Eee" site it's linked from; neither of them are owned by Asus.

[monsterstack]

There is already a thread about this. Two of them, actually (they were merged). It's strange that Slashdot has been so slow to catch up. And it looks like many Slashdotters think it's all a big fake, too. Before this thread goes and gets merged with the other two, I'll put it here in big letters:

This is not a fake story. Asus probably didn't make the site, but they do link to it prominently on their UK website as shown here (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk].

[privatejarhead]

rofl, that's funny; what a great joke. wait...is he serious? >.>

[fatality_uk]

there is already a thread about this. Two of them, actually (they were merged). It's strange that slashdot has been so slow to catch up. And it looks like many slashdotters think it's all a big fake, too. Before this thread goes and gets merged with the other two, i'll put it here in big letters:

this is not a fake story. Asus probably didn't make the site, but they do link to it prominently on their uk website as shown here (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008ha/features.html) [asus.co.uk].

yes we know

:D

[chucky chuckaluck]

it'll probably be even better with windows7.

[monsterstack]

yes we know

:D

You do, but I bet others won't. :P If I don't put it in right at the start of the thread, then the next four zillion replies will be "Huh this is fud man some trolling be doing this i don't believe it looks fake man yeah lol".

[Greenwidth]

I think I've gone deaf...

[bobbob1016]

"...dealing with an unfamiliar environment..." so the devil you know is better than the one you don't (would be funnier if they sold BSD on their netbooks, devil you know as in their mascot)? Is that what they mean?

[Eisenwinter]

And the one question that should be asked is, why do you even care?

[0per4t0r]

They just killed The Eee PC. come on!

[Tristam Green]

There is already a thread about this. Two of them, actually (they were merged). It's strange that Slashdot has been so slow to catch up. And it looks like many Slashdotters think it's all a big fake, too. Before this thread goes and gets merged with the other two, I'll put it here in big letters:

This is not a fake story. Asus probably didn't make the site, but they do link to it prominently on their UK website as shown here (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk].

http://uk.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2912&modelmenu=1

Official site for the 1008HA; straight off the UK Asus website.

http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html

Not the same site.

[hyperdude111]

There is already a thread about this. Two of them, actually (they were merged). It's strange that Slashdot has been so slow to catch up. And it looks like many Slashdotters think it's all a big fake, too. Before this thread goes and gets merged with the other two, I'll put it here in big letters:

This is not a fake story. Asus probably didn't make the site, but they do link to it prominently on their UK website as shown here (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk].

Wrong the uk asus website is http://uk.asus.com/ the site you link to is a third party.

[pwnst*r]

the forum used to search automatically for previous posts of the same subject, now it's optional. bad move.

[spoons]

http://uk.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2912&modelmenu=1

Official site for the 1008HA; straight off the UK Asus website.

http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html

Not the same site.

That second one looks very fishy.

[azangru]

And the one question that should be asked is, why do you even care?

Simply because at that pace Asus may gradually stop selling computers with preinstalled Linux. And then back to the inevitable stupid Microsoft tax. Argh!

[y6FgBn)~v]

A shame Canonical and/or Ubuntu can't produce something similar.

[monsterstack]

So, uh, eh?



Registrant:
Asus Computer International
800 Corporate Way
Fremont, CA 94539
US

Domain Name: ASUS.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Yao, Charles
Asus Computer International
800 Corporate Way
Fremont, CA 94539
US
(510) 608-4527 fax: 999 999 9999

Record expires on 24-Oct-2011.
Record created on 25-Oct-1995.
Database last updated on 29-May-2009 08:59:34 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS3.ASUS.COM 211.72.249.201
DNS7.ASUS.COM 213.61.92.192


Domain name:
asus.co.uk

Registrant:
Asustek Computer Inc

Trading as:
Asus

Registrant type:
UK Individual

Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their
address omitted from the WHOIS service.

Registrar:
1 & 1 Internet AG [Tag = SCHLUND]
URL: http://registrar.1und1.info

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 23-May-1997
Renewal date: 23-May-2011
Last updated: 22-May-2009

Registration status:
Renewal request being processed.

Name servers:
ns59.1and1.co.uk
ns60.1and1.co.uk

[rliegh]

There is already a thread about this. Two of them, actually (they were merged). It's strange that Slashdot has been so slow to catch up. And it looks like many Slashdotters think it's all a big fake, too. Before this thread goes and gets merged with the other two, I'll put it here in big letters:

This is not a fake story. Asus probably didn't make the site, but they do link to it prominently on their UK website as shown here (http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc/1008HA/features.html) [asus.co.uk].

Except that THAT's not the ASUS UK site, THIS:
http://uk.asus.com/
Is the ASUS UK site (and this is the uk site for the eeepc: http://uk.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24 )

Fake site is fake.

[Tristam Green]

the forum used to search automatically for previous posts of the same subject, now it's optional. bad move.

Indeed.

Read up folks:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1161352


So, uh, eh?

Exactly, and I posted the whois info for both domains [url=http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7366183&postcount=55]here[/quote].

[monsterstack]

Indeed.

Read up folks:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1161352



Exactly, and I posted the whois info for both domains here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7366183&postcount=55).

Interesting stuff. I decided to see just what is exactly at asus.co.uk. SO I ran this:


wget -r -p -e robots=off -U mozilla http://www.asus.co.uk/

As expected, all I discovered was a single html page with a redirect to uk.asus.com. So I decided to try this:


wget -r -p -e robots=off -U mozilla http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc

All I found on the domain was the page about the 1000HE. Everything else redirects to uk.asus.com.

It seems someone is going to pretty extreme lengths to do some epic trolling, here.

[Tristam Green]

Interesting stuff. I decided to see just what is exactly at asus.co.uk. SO I ran this:


wget -r -p -e robots=off -U mozilla http://www.asus.co.uk/

As expected, all I discovered was a single html page with a redirect to uk.asus.com. So I decided to try this:


wget -r -p -e robots=off -U mozilla http://www.asus.co.uk/eeepc

All I found on the domain was the page about the 1000HE. Everything else redirects to uk.asus.com.

It seems someone is going to pretty extreme lengths to do some epic trolling, here.

Yep, I found redirects to uk.asus.com as well. In regards to epic trolling, there are some messed-up people in the world.

As for all the news articles (especially /., shame on you /.), it surprises me that none of them have done this homework themselves.

Also, the "ad campaign" "it works better with Windows" just doesn't seem like Microsoft's style. That level of pretentiousness is normally seen by (excuse my blatant accusation here) Apple's marketing team. MS has historically done defensive marketing like the "Laptop Hunter" line of commercials, and the only line in all of them that is really a jab at other companies/software creators is Lauren's "I guess I'm not cool enough to be a Mac person".

Don't take the above paragraph as MS fanboyism, I just don't want to see undue blame placed on MS or Asus.

[monsterstack]

Yep, I found redirects to uk.asus.com as well. In regards to epic trolling, there are some messed-up people in the world.

As for all the news articles (especially /., shame on you /.), it surprises me that none of them have done this homework themselves.

Also, the "ad campaign" "it works better with Windows" just doesn't seem like Microsoft's style. That level of pretentiousness is normally seen by (excuse my blatant accusation here) Apple's marketing team. MS has historically done defensive marketing like the "Laptop Hunter" line of commercials, and the only line in all of them that is really a jab at other companies/software creators is Lauren's "I guess I'm not cool enough to be a Mac person".

Don't take the above paragraph as MS fanboyism, I just don't want to see undue blame placed on MS or Asus.

Strange how things turn out, I guess.

[dspari1]

Here is the "It's better with Windows" campaign on newegg.com:

http://promotions.newegg.com/ASUS/041609/?cm_sp=Subcat_Netbooks-_-ASUS/041609-_-http%3a%2f%2fpromotions.newegg.com%2fASUS%2f041609 %2f478x88.jpg

It's linked from:
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=772&name=Netbooks

Look on the right picture where it says:ASUS Netbook at its finest.

[monsterstack]

The plot thickens. So here's what we know:


Some advertising company guy registers the domain http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com, and uploads a promotional video about why your Asus eee is better off running Windows.
A link to the site turns up on http://www.asus.co.uk.
However, it turns out that the real Asus UK domain is http://uk.asus.com.
A whois scan of the fake domain tells us that the registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their address omitted from the WHOIS service, suggesting it really is a false domain,as Asus are quite upfront about their own domain registry.
By downloading everything at the http://www.asus.co.uk site, I discover that there is only one page there; everything else redirects to the legitimate, real Asus website. The offending page does indeed include the link to the promotional video. The information page on the real Asus site lacks this detail.


And now I find this news article (http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2243158/asus-microsoft-join-forces) [vnunet.com], which quotes an unnamed Asus official:


Asus confirmed to vnunet.com that the campaign was legitimate, saying: “As a hardware vendor we have to provide both operating systems for our consumers.”

Meanwhile, the campaign is mentioned (http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?board_id=20&model=Eee+PC+1002HAE&id=20090526115622143&page=1&SLanguage=en-us) [asus.com] on the Asus forums, and it is not denied there, either.

Just what exactly is going on here!?

[bakedbeans4life]

Until Microsoft or Asus say catergorically, and on record,this is bull. Who to believe? And even then...

[sgtbug]

on www.asus.co.uk it says (for the 1000HE):



Eee PC 1000HE comes pre-loaded with Microsoft Window® XP Home and Microsoft Works.


i think it comes with staroffice.. not works.. am i right?

many vendors sell notebooks with only windows on certain models.. that doesnt make them evil.. i get better battery life on windows, though the anti-virus evens it out for me (lol)..

after netbook remix, i see no reason to use windows on my netbook.. i'm using a 1000he with ubuntu netbook remix and i love it.. everything is perfectly compatible..

but i wish there was an option to not buy an OS.. that would be great..

[helliewm]

Microsoft launch new anti Linux campaign

http://www.itsbetterwithwindows.com/

Helen

[hanzomon4]

Already been posted a few times.. can't think of the threads for some reason

[helliewm]

Its also just appeared on the Register IT on line journal today.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/30/its_better_with_windows/

So seems to be new???

Helen

[hyperdude111]

There was another thread about this LAST NIGHT.
And about 10 others!!

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1173213

[Poyntz]

They forgot to mention that Windows is slow

And I'd like them to state how much of the customer proceeds go toward making useless domain names like this :P

[Swarms]

I don't like the commercials, it is not because it is Windows who made them, they are just not very exciting. We've seen it all before.

[Corelogik]

As has been noted many times previously, private individual website, not Asus or Microsoft,... search is your friend.

[lovinglinux]

The screen is that small? Why it has a large black border around it? The window display is fully maximized?

I never saw an Eee PC other than on screenshots.

[-grubby]

You mean... a company... that advertises!??

[.Maleficus.]

You mean... a company... that advertises!??
Heresy I tell you!

[mikeglover]

Only thing I like about this is some of the music.
I like the one between 2:20 and 3:10 sounds like it could be a good song. Shame they don't say who done it.

[omar8]

After watching it, it doesn't seem very anti linux, it just shows the positives of Windows. Even then, the website doesn't seem well made (jpg compression?).

[whoop]

Maybe this commercial could even by interpreted as anti-microsoft (by intelligent people non-the-less). I mean, if it's "better" with windows that means that there "must" be an alternative; and Microsoft is scared of the alternative, otherwise this commercial wouldn't have been made.

[Kareeser]

Someone's already creating a "itsbetterwithlinux.com", so don't fret. We'll take the wind out of their sails.

Looks like the site admin's using Drupal, hehe... (http://itsbetterwithlinux.com)

Who wants to make "itsbetterwithubuntu.com"? :P

[mamamia88]

Microsoft advertising sucks lately first these "we are better because we are cheaper" commercials and now this saying "don't switch why use a different os when you already know how to use this one?"

[The Toxic Mite]

Mi¢r0$haft + anti-Linux campaigning = epic fail.

[Delever]

It's better with Windows XP.

[The Toxic Mite]

It's better with Windows XP.

[Catherine Tate impression] How very dare you! :| [/Catherine Tate impression]

[mikewhatever]

and now the story hits the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/30/its_better_with_windows/

[juancarlospaco]

Even then, the website doesn't seem well made (jpg compression?).

Because its made with Windows :D

[Hyper Tails]

People think that (talks in a mocking voice)windows is perfect.........

NO!!!!! IT'S NOT!!!!

Nether is Linux!!

There just saying: well more people run windows,therefore it better.
uh noo....
since when was using a os that was just right for you such a popularity contest?

Linux is easy to use
so is windows

Oh My WOT Says that site is rated as dangerous
it's propbley trying to make Linux users switch to windows
I have 3 windows oses on my harddrive and I also have ubuntu on it too.
so windows and linux are both good
oh what's next? an anti mac?

enough said

[juancarlospaco]

They change into a Modern system!, see... :D

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/892/tempzmn.jpg

[Pogeymanz]

It really is a pretty lame campaign. "You don't want to LEARN, do you?!"

[azangru]

Stupid advertisers!

You can't say something is better unless you compare it with something else.

Because the only legitimate statement is better than something!

And you, stupid advertisers, just show a bunch of people doing some basic tasks in Windows. How is that better? And better than what?!

Argh!

[MaxIBoy]

You mean... a company... that advertises!??Were it up to me, advertising would be banned, and companies would compete on the merits of their products. (You mean... a commonly-used product... which is actually better than the rarely-used products!??)

[drawkcab]

1. This isn't anti-Linux. (Unless you place it within the context of the Asus/Xandros debacle)

2. This isn't a Microsoft campaign, it is a series of Asus eeepc commercials.

Basically, Asus took a huge hit having had an estimated 1 in 5 Xandros-equipped eeepcs returned. Their marketing and advertising is obviously trying to respond to what they preceive to be consumer demand in order to recover their marketshare.

[dspari1]

As has been noted many times previously, private individual website, not Asus or Microsoft,... search is your friend.

That private individual must be pretty rich to be paying newegg.com to have this campaign on their website.

http://promotions.newegg.com/ASUS/041609/?cm_sp=Subcat_Netbooks-_-ASUS/041609-_-http%3a%2f%2fpromotions.newegg.com%2fASUS%2f041609 %2f118x118.gif

That promotion website is linked from:
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=772&name=Netbooks

Just click on the ASUS picture to the very right.

[Hyper Tails]

Mi¢r0$haft + anti-Linux campaigning = epic fail.

true..

[spoons]

Look at all the artefacts on that page. What was it made in, Paint?!?

[CJ Master]

Mi¢r0$haft + anti-Linux campaigning = epic fail.

Mi¢r0$haft? Never heard of it.

[albinootje]

From here : http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-30-010-35-OP-BZ-MS&tbovrmode=1#talkback_area

a new website : http://www.itsbetterwithoutwindows.com

[The Toxic Mite]

Mi¢r0$haft? Never heard of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satiric_misspelling

[CJ Master]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satiric_misspelling

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/immaturity

[CharmyBee]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/immaturity

It's better with research.

[Tipped OuT]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/immaturity

Owned. :lolflag:

[Giant Speck]

Wow, there sure is a lot of ignorance in this thread.

[zmjjmz]

There was another thread on this within the context of Asus supporting it (bugger if I find it), and some whois searches revealed that this site is registered to some advertising company, who seems to be working with Asus and Microsoft.
In addition, the Asus page that linked to it was on asus.co.uk, whereas the real UK Asus site is uk.asus.com. This is very confusing, especially as Asus has confirmed that they are legitimately supporting this campaign.


WOT has rated this site as untrustworthy and such, although it is safe in terms of malware (what a PR mess that would be!). Anyways, campaign is about as good as the site.

[pwnst*r]

search function: enable.

[Brinstar]

Stupid advertisers!

You can't say something is better unless you compare it with something else.

Because the only legitimate statement is better than something!

And you, stupid advertisers, just show a bunch of people doing some basic tasks in Windows. How is that better? And better than what?!

Argh!

Hah, exactly! They are seemingly too scared to even mention Ubuntu by name :) It has such an effect on people, after all.

Come on, if i asked you as a new user what system would you prefer on your computer, Windows or Ubuntu, i know what one i'd go for just based on the name :)

[Giant Speck]

Hah, exactly! They are seemingly too scared to even mention Ubuntu by name :) It has such an effect on people, after all.

Well, considering the website is masquerading as an official website made by ASUS (which it's not), and that ASUS doesn't sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed on them, a comparison between Windows and Ubuntu wouldn't make any sense.

[Brinstar]

Hah, exactly! They are seemingly too scared to even mention Linux by name :) It has such an effect on people, after all.

Come on, if i asked you as a new user what system would you prefer on your computer, Windows or Linux, i know what one i'd go for just based on the name :)


Well, considering the website is masquerading as an official website made by ASUS (which it's not), and that ASUS doesn't sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed on them, a comparison between Windows and Ubuntu wouldn't make any sense.

fixed that for you (although Linux doesnt have the same ring to it ;))

[open_coder]

they are both clearly asus sites, one is for marketing, other is for support.




not quite, he got worked up for the reasons he mentioned if you bothered to read the post he made. he made good points about the age of winxp and the security/stability aspects. its not his loss, its Asus's, they make average hardware and were in the right place at the right time with the Eee. now that everyone is making their own 'Eee' clone, i dont think their success is going to last.



you miss the point entirely. the point is why does Asus feel the need to advertise an 8yr old system over a recent one (Xandros)? They are actively encouraging people to use winxp, who may otherwise have been happy with linux. why? why go out of your way to show winxp to someone who could have got along happily with linux. i see no other reason than to please microsoft.

I think you are all missing the point. The Asus Eee PC was only possible because of Linux. The fact that they used Linux to create this market and then turn around and take a dump on Linux is completely deplorable. Linux helped them create an entirely new market that didn't exist before. Namely, netbooks. It wasn't till after they had penetration that Windows XP even started to be offered. This entire situation reeks of Microsoft giving Asus money to recommend Windows over Linux.

No matter what you say, Asus is a huge Fair Weather Friend. I have never bought an Asus product, though I was considering an Eee PC this fall. Now I am going to look at the HP Mini 110 Mi.

[azangru]

Well, considering the website is masquerading as an official website made by ASUS (which it's not), and that ASUS doesn't sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed on them, a comparison between Windows and Ubuntu wouldn't make any sense.

They didn't even compare it with the default function-limited Xandros, which I have had on my eeePC for almost a year now and have liked from the very beginning :)

[Giant Speck]

They didn't even compare it with the default function-limited Xandros, which I have had on my eeePC for almost a year now and have liked from the very beginning :)

This only adds to the evidence against this website being an official ASUS website.

[monsterstack]

This only adds to the evidence against this website being an official ASUS website.


O rly (http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2243158/asus-microsoft-join-forces)?


Asus confirmed to vnunet.com that the campaign was legitimate, saying: “As a hardware vendor we have to provide both operating systems for our consumers.”

The evidence that it is a fake site looks pretty water-tight till you read that right there. I thought it was fake after a bit of research too. But that vnunet article seems to change everything.

Seems to have fooled Newegg, too (http://promotions.newegg.com/ASUS/041609/?cm_sp=Subcat_Netbooks-_-ASUS/041609-_-http%3a%2f%2fpromotions.newegg.com%2fASUS%2f041609 %2f478x88.jpg) [newegg.com].

[Chame_Wizard]

Just use ASrock,much beter.:P

[Brinstar]

the plot thickens,

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push

Asus are really setting themselves up for a fall here. what i don't understand is what do they have to gain by being microsofts pooch? other makers are not as bothered about microsofts discontent, so why Asus? its disgusting and shocking to see how they are behaving towards Linux.

i say let other manufacturers take the initiative. acer/samsung/other non-ms poodles, step right up.

[aysiu]

what i don't understand is what do they have to gain by being microsofts pooch? other makers are not as bothered about microsofts discontent, so why Asus? its disgusting and shocking to see how they are behaving towards Linux. Maybe other OEMs haven't received the same kinds of threats Asus has, since Asus was a pioneer in making Linux popular on netbooks (clearly MSI wasn't, since they claimed to have a four-times-higher return rate on Linux netbooks).

In big business, the company with the leverage makes all the calls. This is one of the problems with Wal-Mart. Its suppliers have very narrow profit margins (and sometimes even lose money) on the products they sell to Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart demands the prices be so low (so they can then undercut Target retail prices by just that little). But they also have no choice. If Wal-Mart makes up 25% of your business, you can't really afford to **** Wal-Mart off, because you wouldn't be able to survive with only 75% of your business.

Likewise, with OEMs, they cannot survive without Windows. Without Windows, these major manufacturers would be just another System76, ZaReason, or Linux Certified. They would not be giants like HP, Dell, and Sony.

It's nice to think that if Asus pissed Microsoft off and just started selling Linux that Linux users would step up and make Asus some profits. What would really happen is Asus would declare bankruptcy, and most Linux users would buy Windows preinstalled from some other OEM and then install Linux themselves on it.

Microsoft has sweet deals with OEMs, and Microsoft holds all the power. Do you really think Dell really recommends Windows Vista? It appears to on every page of its website. No, it doesn't recommend it. But it has to say it does, otherwise Microsoft will stop cutting it discounts on OEM Windows licenses, and Dell will tank.

If Linux users are really pissed off about this sort of thing, they can do something about it: buy only Linux-preinstalled or no-OS-installed systems. Period. The more you buy Windows computers, the more OEMs get the message that people want Windows computers, and the more they feel enslaved by Microsoft ("We need those cheap Windows licenses, because Windows computers sell").

By conservative estimates, there are only several million Linux users in the world. Imagine if all of those several million refused to buy Windows-preinstalled computers. That wouldn't put anyone out of business, but it would send a message to manufactuers who do not offer Linux options that they are losing out on a lot of money to be made, especially since Linux users (from what I've seen) are more likely than non-Linux users to buy multiple systems (and more higher-end systems).

[monsterstack]

Maybe other OEMs haven't received the same kinds of threats Asus has, since Asus was a pioneer in making Linux popular on netbooks (clearly MSI wasn't, since they claimed to have a four-times-higher return rate on Linux netbooks).

In big business, the company with the leverage makes all the calls. This is one of the problems with Wal-Mart. Its suppliers have very narrow profit margins (and sometimes even lose money) on the products they sell to Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart demands the prices be so low (so they can then undercut Target retail prices by just that little). But they also have no choice. If Wal-Mart makes up 25% of your business, you can't really afford to **** Wal-Mart off, because you wouldn't be able to survive with only 75% of your business.

Likewise, with OEMs, they cannot survive without Windows. Without Windows, these major manufacturers would be just another System76, ZaReason, or Linux Certified. They would not be giants like HP, Dell, and Sony.

It's nice to think that if Asus pissed Microsoft off and just started selling Linux that Linux users would step up and make Asus some profits. What would really happen is Asus declare bankruptcy, and most Linux users would buy Windows preinstalled from some other OEM and then install Linux themselves on it.

Microsoft has sweet deals with OEMs, and Microsoft holds all the power. Do you really think Dell really recommends Windows Vista? It appears to on every page of its website. No, it doesn't recommend it. But it has to say it does, otherwise Microsoft will stop cutting it discounts on OEM Windows licenses, and Dell will tank.

If Linux users are really pissed off about this sort of thing, they can do something about it: buy only Linux-preinstalled or no-OS-installed systems. Period. The more you buy Windows computers, the more OEMs get the message that people want Windows computers, and the more they feel enslaved by Microsoft ("We need those cheap Windows licenses, because Windows computers sell").

By conservative estimates, there are only several million Linux users in the world. Imagine if all of those several million refused to buy Windows-preinstalled computers. That wouldn't put anyone out of business, but it would send a message to manufactuers who do not offer Linux options that they are losing out on a lot of money to be made, especially since Linux users (from what I've seen) are more likely than non-Linux users to buy multiple systems (and more higher-end systems).


while 1:
x = x+1

Hardware vendors have every reason to support Linux, and retailers have every reason to provide it as an option so long as people keep on voting with their wallets.

[jrusso2]

Asus tried Linux. They lost money and it was a complete failure on the netbooks. Who can blame them for going with Windows? Linux still not ready for the consumer.

[monsterstack]

Asus tried Linux. They lost money and it was a complete failure on the netbooks. Who can blame them for going with Windows? Linux still not ready for the consumer.

Shill much?

[Wiebelhaus]

I will not buy another Asus product after what they did in Taiwan (http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/06/02/is-microsoft-buying-off-linux-netbook-vendors/) , no way. They turned their back on us to sleep with the Devil and once MS is done with them they will be chewed up and spit out.

buy System76! if you think you can't trust System76 go with Dell mini's.

[aysiu]

Asus tried Linux. They lost money and it was a complete failure on the netbooks. Who can blame them for going with Windows? Linux still not ready for the consumer. I think you mean Asus tried a crippled version of Xandros.

[azangru]

It's nice to think that if Asus pissed Microsoft off and just started selling Linux that Linux users would step up and make Asus some profits. What would really happen is Asus would declare bankruptcy, and most Linux users would buy Windows preinstalled from some other OEM and then install Linux themselves on it.

Microsoft has sweet deals with OEMs, and Microsoft holds all the power. Do you really think Dell really recommends Windows Vista? It appears to on every page of its website. No, it doesn't recommend it. But it has to say it does, otherwise Microsoft will stop cutting it discounts on OEM Windows licenses, and Dell will tank.

If Microsoft stopped offering discounts, don't you think things would have become much more transparent? A manufacturer could then be offering laptops with full-price Windows alongside laptops with a pre-installed proper operating system (:p) that would cost half as much. Don't you think the customers would then think twice before they pay for a Windows machine; wouldn't they get just a little curious in why a fine-wrking laptop with all the same features costs so little? Because until now Asus has been artfully hiding the price difference.

[issih]

Huge company with well known anti competitive streak and gigantic advertising budget utilises sharp marketing practices and paid for advertising better than linux companies...

Um ,so not a shock, a shame perhaps, but definitely not a shock, and entirely understandable if you are in asus's shoes.

They make bits of hardware, the rest is semi market driven, semi monopolist driven. They are no worse than any one else.

[monsterstack]

If Microsoft stopped offering discounts, don't you think things would have become much more transparent? A manufacturer could then be offering laptops with full-price Windows alongside laptops with a pre-installed proper operating system (:p) that would cost half as much. Don't you think the customers would then think twice before they pay for a Windows machine; wouldn't they get just a little curious in why a fine-wrking laptop with all the same features costs so little? Because until now Asus has been artfully hiding the price difference.

For very large retailers such as Wal-Mart, I could see this happening. Obviously, even if Walmart loses many purchasers of their Windows computers, they aren't going to go under in a hurry. But what if Walmart runs their business apps on Windows machines? When you consider that possibility, then the very idea of ******* off Microsoft becomes unthinkable. Shareholders get annoyed at even the slightest knock in profits. They just wouldn't stand for it.

As for hardware manufacturers, losing that Windows knock-down is unthinkable even to begin with. They'd lose just way too many customers.

Honestly, I think that Asus only went with Linux in the first place was to see if Microsoft would give them some cut-backs. And guess what? It worked. Microsoft are supplying netbook makers with copies of XP for as little as $15 now. XP pretty much killed off real innovation on the netbook. Microsoft are scared of netbooks, and would rather people avoid buying them entirely. Windows 7 will support mid-range netbooks, but everything else will just get Windows CE. Could turn out to be a big mistake for Microsoft.

[jrusso2]

Shill much?

As a Linux user for 13 years almost from the beginning I resent that.

Linux people don't seem to want the truth. Asus has been pro-linux and was cheered for it. Now you all call them shills too now that it didn't work for them.

[Wiebelhaus]

As a Linux user for 13 years almost from the beginning I resent that.

Linux people don't seem to want the truth. Asus has been pro-linux and was cheered for it. Now you all call them shills too now that it didn't work for them.

I like you allot and would never try to insult you so please accept this post respectively.

The issue is that this happened in the span of one day , One day hanging out with MS execs (http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push) and they flip like a bunch of spineless .......

Asus cannot be trusted and that's the end of it.

[monsterstack]

As a Linux user for 13 years almost from the beginning I resent that.

Linux people don't seem to want the truth. Asus has been pro-linux and was cheered for it. Now you all call them shills too now that it didn't work for them.

You're lacking all of the facts. There are two main issues here. The first one being that Linux has largely failed on Netbooks. The second is that Asus has lost a ton of money lately. These two issues are largely unrelated. The thing is, Asus didn't start losing money till they started shifting netbooks with XP. The reasons why they lost money are pretty obvious, really. By the time they were flogging the XP netbooks in greater quantities, other manufacturers had caught up and were offering more powerful and often cheaper models of netbooks. Pretty much all of them ran XP. Horrible, gimped non-distros of Linux were an option, but it was almost impossible to get hold of them. Asus brought almost no innovation to the Netbook after others started selling them. The Linux models often had less features than their Windows counterparts due to vendor idiocy, more than anything. And, yes, often they were priced more expensively than the Windows machines. Is it any wonder Linux didn't take off so well? After everyone was selling them, Asus wasn't special anymore. They had no reason that set them apart from the crowd. All they were peddling was just another netbook. Consumers don't generally care who thought of the idea first, and so went with the better choices.

Asus cheered for Linux because it was cheap, and is was available. XP was neither of these. Asus would have had no cost advantage selling XP netbooks: the original eee barely had enough juice to run it, and back then Microsoft were still loathe to supply it (they were still trying to flog Vista). The very moment Microsoft slashed its prices on XP, Asus dropped Linux like a stone. As did everyone else who was playing around with it. Asus cheered for Linux only because it made them money. Now they're offering us disgusting campaigns about why Windows is so awesome, when Windows already dominates their eeePC netbooks. Cheered? they should be booed.

[aysiu]

If Microsoft stopped offering discounts, don't you think things would have become much more transparent? A manufacturer could then be offering laptops with full-price Windows alongside laptops with a pre-installed proper operating system (:p) that would cost half as much. Don't you think the customers would then think twice before they pay for a Windows machine; wouldn't they get just a little curious in why a fine-wrking laptop with all the same features costs so little? You're making a flawed assumption that Microsoft would stop offering discounts to all OEMs. That's not how it works.

If one OEM stepped out of line (promoted Linux too much, dropped Windows, stopped recommending Windows), then Microsoft wouldn't offer that one OEM the discounts, but it would keep offering discounts to that OEM's competitors.

So if Asus stepped out of line, they'd have to charge full price for Windows to their customers, and then they'd lose customers, because folks would see the Windows laptops from HP and Dell are much cheaper.

[azangru]

So if Asus stepped out of line, they'd have to charge full price for Windows to their customers, and then they'd lose customers, because folks would see the Windows laptops from HP and Dell are much cheaper.

Well, that's more or less the course of events I was thinking about (apart from losing the customers). So, you think that if competing companies offer laptops within approximately the same price range, the customers will base their decision primarily on the operating system that is installed on these laptops, favoring Windows instead of Linux? Is it true then (and not biased statistics) that the experiment with Linux on laptops was a failure; that customers don't want Linux on their laptops and faced with a choice will choose Windows over Linux?

(desperately) Is there no hope then?

[monsterstack]

Well, that's more or less the course of events I was thinking about (apart from losing the customers). So, you think that if competing companies offer laptops within approximately the same price range, the customers will base their decision primarily on the operating system that is installed on these laptops, favoring Windows instead of Linux? Is it true then (and not biased statistics) that the experiment with Linux on laptops was a failure; that customers don't want Linux on their laptops and faced with a choice will choose Windows over Linux?

(desperately) Is there no hope then?

Not so. Manufacturers with balls (Acer), manufacturers with lots of power (Dell, Intel), and manufacturers nothing to lose (Linux Certified, System 76) can just go right ahead and start selling Linux on netbooks. Don't discount the new kids on the block such as the Snapdragon and the ARM-based netbooks. Microsoft have publicly stated that they see Windows CE as their answer to ARM-books. As any fule know, Windows CE is notoriously rubbish, especially when compared to the fully featured, fully working Linux desktops that are also available.

[aysiu]

Well, that's more or less the course of events I was thinking about (apart from losing the customers). So, you think that if competing companies offer laptops within approximately the same price range, the customers will base their decision primarily on the operating system that is installed on these laptops, favoring Windows instead of Linux? Is it true then (and not biased statistics) that the experiment with Linux on laptops was a failure; that customers don't want Linux on their laptops and faced with a choice will choose Windows over Linux?

(desperately) Is there no hope then?
Well, there's a myth Microsoft likes to perpetuate that Linux and Windows had a race and Windows won, or that consumers genuinely gave both OSes a chance and preferred Windows.

We all know this is not what really happened.

Microsoft knows how to muscle. If advertising weren't important, if PR and spin weren't important, why would Microsoft spend so much money on it? Why did they create all their "I'm a PC" commercials to combat Apple's "I'm a Mac" commercials if it's all about merit and not perception, if people just see what's available and pick what they like? Why is there a "It's better with Windows" campaign if people will just naturally pick whatever they prefer?

We all know the reasons why Linux didn't do as well on netbooks: The netbooks from major manufacturers did not come with standard Linux distributions that could take full advantage of software repositories, thus reinforcing the misconception that software installation is difficult in Linux The first Linux netbooks featured unpopular Linux distributions, often crippled in some fashion (custom Xandros, Linpus Linux Lite, gOS) Linux netbooks were not marketed or advertised properly Initially for Dell's offerings (the first major OEM to offer Ubuntu on its netbooks), the Windows netbooks were actually cheaper than the Linux ones In other words, there was a lot of confusion for non-savvy consumers as to what Linux was, what it could do, what advantages it might offer over Windows, what functionality it had.

When you're offered a situation in which a confusingly presented new option is the alternative to an option you already know, you will most likely pick the familiar option--in this case, Windows.

I don't think at this point, though, we need to put a verdict in place ("Linux failed"). Anything could happen. There was a time when Apple looked as if it were going to go under completely. Then it came back with Mac OS X and the iPod, and look where it is now. Moblin and Android could do something for Linux... or not.

I don't think Linux users should underestimate Microsoft as a competitor. The company will do anything to maintain its nigh-monopolistic hold on the consumer computing markets. It wanted to stop supporting XP. But when it saw Linux thriving on netbooks, XP came back. It wanted to limit Windows 7 starter edition to only 3 apps at a time. When tech bloggers started declaring the 3-app limit the death of Windows on netbooks, suddenly Microsoft reneged and said you can run as many applications as you want.

There never happened a time when people were genuinely presented with "This is Linux on all of our models, and here are all the wonderful things you can do with it; and here is Windows on those same models, and here are all the wonderful things you can do with it" and then asked to make a choice. Even now you can see a ton of Linux users buying netbooks with Windows preinstalled because the Linux options are so limited. It's easy to become 96% of a market if you can coerce manufacturers into preinstalling your operating system on 96% of netbooks.

[KiwiNZ]

Asus still offers Linux on their products.

But if folks stop buying Asus products with Linux, Asus will stop offering them.Simple reality in the world of commerce

[aysiu]

Asus still offers Linux on their products.

But if folks stop buying Asus products with Linux, Asus will stop offering them.Simple reality in the world of commerce
I can't speak for other countries, but in America, I'm not seeing Linux on Asus netbooks any more. The only Linux I'm seeing on Eee PCs here is on older models (Eee PC 1000, Eee PC 901). All the newer models (1000HE, for example) have Windows preinstalled on them.

I was actually quite a fan of the Eee PC 701 I got from them last year. I was looking to upgrade to a new Asus netbook, but I couldn't find one with Linux on it, so I went with the HP Mini 1120nr (which had a modified Ubuntu on it).

We don't have to buy from Asus, but I do agree with you that buying Linux preinstalled (perhaps from other manufacturers) will give financial incentive for those manufactuers to continue offering Linux options.

[albinootje]

I can't speak for other countries, but in America, I'm not seeing Linux on Asus netbooks any more. The only Linux I'm seeing on Eee PCs here is on older models (Eee PC 1000, Eee PC 901). All the newer models (1000HE, for example) have Windows preinstalled on them.

Yes. It's exactly the same here in Holland.

And for people in Holland who want to buy a Linux laptop or desktop, see here :
http://os4free.nl/?page=catalog&view=category&cat_id=9

[azangru]

Same in Russia. And I don't see those tiny Dells or HPs preloaded with Linux either. It worries me.

[TheLastDodo]

I'd say that Linux on netbooks will mostly be gone within the year. I'm suspecting that Microsoft is pulling some sort of dirty tricks behind the scenes (threatening hardware makers with withdrawal of OS licenses) to get the netbook makers using Windows. Only a large and wealthy competitor such as Google really has a chance reverse this sort of trend, which is why I'll be watching the introduction of Android netbooks later this year with interest.

[Wiebelhaus]

I would not be surprised to be honest , MS gave a presentation not to long ago about how their biggest competitor was Linux and not the MAC as many have thought.

[Tristam Green]

Asus still offers Linux on their products.

But if folks stop buying Asus products with Linux, Asus will stop offering them.Simple reality in the world of commerce

I think that this is what everyone needs to take away from this thread. The rules of commerce apply - give the people what they want, and what they know. Griping about Windows offerings or pre-installations is useless, without education to the people who ask.


I can't speak for other countries, but in America, I'm not seeing Linux on Asus netbooks any more. The only Linux I'm seeing on Eee PCs here is on older models (Eee PC 1000, Eee PC 901). All the newer models (1000HE, for example) have Windows preinstalled on them.

I was actually quite a fan of the Eee PC 701 I got from them last year. I was looking to upgrade to a new Asus netbook, but I couldn't find one with Linux on it, so I went with the HP Mini 1120nr (which had a modified Ubuntu on it).

We don't have to buy from Asus, but I do agree with you that buying Linux preinstalled (perhaps from other manufacturers) will give financial incentive for those manufactuers to continue offering Linux options.

They do offer preinstalled Linux, just not in Big Box stores (America). Though they're becoming sparse, I can still find them online and, in all places, at my local Toys R' Us.

[aysiu]

They do offer preinstalled Linux, just not in Big Box stores (America). Though they're becoming sparse, I can still find them online and, in all places, at my local Toys R' Us. Can you link me to an online American offering of a newer-model Asus Eee PC with Linux preinstalled? I couldn't find any.

Please note: 901 and 1000 are not recent models. They're old.

[DUfire]

Can you link me to an online American offering of a newer-model Asus Eee PC with Linux preinstalled? I couldn't find any.

Please note: 901 and 1000 are not recent models. They're old.

Depends on what you consider old. In the spectrum of netbooks and the Eee PC family, they're fairly recent. Not too many models have even come out after them. The S101, 1008HA, and 1002 series? The last model that came with a Linux distro pre-installed was the 1000HD.

http://www.amazon.com/10-Inch-Netbook-Celeron-Processor-Battery/dp/B001GCUOFC

Really, they're right. The rules of commerce greatly apply here, and the majority of American consumers looking for a portable computer have had their needs by Microsoft/Windows and most likely prefer it or see no reason to change it, thus further diminishing Linux's half-hold on the netbook market.

Being fair, the initial article's consumer is a bit overboard. ASUS' is just doing what's most profitable for them, and people like us who prefer Linux will just keep loading it up on our computers, no matter the pre-install. At least every Eee PC model so far has the support for Linux, and few only support Linux installs.

[aysiu]

Depends on what you consider old. In the spectrum of netbooks and the Eee PC family, they're fairly recent. Not too many models have even come out after them. The S101, 1008HA, and 1002 series? The last model that came with a Linux distro pre-installed was the 1000HD.

http://www.amazon.com/10-Inch-Netbook-Celeron-Processor-Battery/dp/B001GCUOFC I do consider that old. And it says "currently unavailable" anyway.


Really, they're right. The rules of commerce greatly apply here, and the majority of American consumers looking for a portable computer have had their needs by Microsoft/Windows and most likely prefer it or see no reason to change it, thus further diminishing Linux's half-hold on the netbook market. Or perhaps they used a crippled version of Linux and didn't market it properly? And Microsoft coerced them into putting Windows onto all their new models? That didn't have anything to do with it?

I put most of the blame on the Linux folks, though. Anyone who says "Yeah, I'm just going to buy the Windows model and install Linux on it" has doomed preinstalled Linux from major OEMs. If money is to be made only from Windows, they will sell only Windows.

[Tristam Green]

I put most of the blame on the Linux folks, though. Anyone who says "Yeah, I'm just going to buy the Windows model and install Linux on it" has doomed preinstalled Linux from major OEMs. If money is to be made only from Windows, they will sell only Windows.

If half the fun of Linux is actually installing/configuring Linux in the first place, can you blame anyone for just wanting to nuke it out and put it on themselves?

I can see where you're going with the purchase of pre-loaded Windows for the express purpose of reinstalling Linux. I'd say even then that (some) Linux users should have inquired to a no-OS option on these PCs, as is available with the OCZ Neutrino (which, subsequently, comes with barely anything at all).

[aysiu]

If half the fun of Linux is actually installing/configuring Linux in the first place, can you blame anyone for just wanting to nuke it out and put it on themselves?

I can see where you're going with the purchase of pre-loaded Windows for the express purpose of reinstalling Linux. I'd say even then that (some) Linux users should have inquired to a no-OS option on these PCs, as is available with the OCZ Neutrino (which, subsequently, comes with barely anything at all).
Well, I don't really consider that half the fun. I don't consider it fun at all. I use Linux because I like it, not because I like trying to get it to work.

If there are people who genuinely feel it's fine for Microsoft to be dominant in the preinstalled arena, then great. But if people are going to whine about companies preferring Windows, marketing Windows, or phasing out Linux, then those people better be buying Linux preinstalled when it's available. Money talks.

[Tristam Green]

Well, I don't really consider that half the fun. I don't consider it fun at all. I use Linux because I like it, not because I like trying to get it to work.

If there are people who genuinely feel it's fine for Microsoft to be dominant in the preinstalled arena, then great. But if people are going to whine about companies preferring Windows, marketing Windows, or phasing out Linux, then those people better be buying Linux preinstalled when it's available. Money talks.

True. And I don't disagree at all. It goes hand-in-hand with those same people who run out and buy Microsoft product simply because it's familiar, gripe when it doesn't work properly, but simply refuse to do anything about it because of that same familiarity.

Familiarity as defined by Microsoft and this ad campaign is dangerous, because it only leads to complacency and low expectations.

Familiarity by definition is not a bad thing as in brand loyalty, if that familiarity is based in having a good feeling about the product you buy; rather than buying it simply because "everyone else uses it".

[azangru]

But if people are going to whine about companies preferring Windows, marketing Windows, or phasing out Linux, then those people better be buying Linux preinstalled when it's available. Money talks.

It's a vicious circle, really. Power Linux users (probably) tend to buy hi-end computers, which naturally come with Windows, adding, in their turn, to the perceived popularity of Windows.

[pookiebear]

It's a vicious circle, really. Power Linux users (probably) tend to buy hi-end computers, which naturally come with Windows, adding, in their turn, to the perceived popularity of Windows.


I build computers for a living. My rigs come clean with no OS. Load what you want.

[aysiu]

It's a vicious circle, really. Power Linux users (probably) tend to buy hi-end computers, which naturally come with Windows, adding, in their turn, to the perceived popularity of Windows.
Well, that vicious cycle has broader applications, too.

I mean, in general, power users are more likely to be heavy gamers and use a lot of Windows-only applications. They're also the most likely to actually give Linux a try.

And the self-proclaimed "computer illiterates" are the ones who would, if they did give Linux a proper chance, be the happiest with Linux (email, web browsing, light image editing, word processing, music organization).

Linux is in kind of a bum position. Most of the people most likely to seek it out are not the ideal users. And most of the ideal users are not the most likely to seek it out.

Somehow, though, we still have gradually more and more people moving to Linux.

[aysiu]

I build computers for a living. My rigs come clean with no OS. Load what you want.
Your laptops and netbooks, too?

[azangru]

Somehow, though, we still have gradually more and more people moving to Linux.

Is that a fact? Hasn't it been agreed upon that we still don't know how to reliably count all those Linux users? ;)

[aysiu]

Is that a fact? Hasn't it been agreed upon that we still don't know how to reliably count all those Linux users? ;)
It's not a scientifically verifiable fact, but I think we're gaining more people than we're losing, yes.

[albinootje]

Ubuntu Becomes Intel's Classmate :
http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/fullnews.asp?edid=34950&magid=13



Thursday, June 04, 2009: Canonical, the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, has reached an agreement with Intel Corporation to deliver Ubuntu as an operating system for the Intel-powered classmate PCs.

:)

[sim-value]

It's a vicious circle, really. Power Linux users (probably) tend to buy hi-end computers, which naturally come with Windows, adding, in their turn, to the perceived popularity of Windows.

Power users probably selfbuild ... in my opinion no computer literate goes to buy a PC pre-built at media markt ...

[VK7HSE]

It's unfortunate that in the commercial world if the amount of money is right, what the outcome can be, I fell that ASUS have made a critical error here but then it goes to show that the #1 bug still needs some work!... (BTW I use Ubuntu exclusively!)

[aysiu]

Power users probably selfbuild ... in my opinion no computer literate goes to buy a PC pre-built at media markt ...
Call me computer illiterate then.

By the way, do you build your own laptops and netbooks, too?

[sim-value]

Call me computer illiterate then.

By the way, do you build your own laptops and netbooks, too?

I dont own one ... and i wanted to write desktops (dont know why i didnt)
They are another storry ...

@Topic i would wish for asus to bring out a netbook with:
Integrated HSDPA Modem
8.9" Screen
HDD 120GB
Linux

That would be the Perfect laptop

/me

[albinootje]

I wonder why the interesting ARM based netbooks get so little attention.

When will they come out, and where to buy them ? Apparently those will be ... Linux only (for the time being) !!! :) :) :)

Let's focus on those ones, and hit Asus with our customer sales.

[Eclipse.]

Just shows up much of a monopoly Microsoft is and its domination of the market.

[albinootje]

Just searched through some news about ARM based netbooks.

This is lovely to read :

https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/faqs.htm



Q. Which OS is installed on the Touch Book?
A. The Touch Book will ship with the Touch Book OS by default. Since the Touch Book has been designed with the help of a vibrant open source community that believes in diversity, you can install many other OSes, including Google Android, Ubuntu, Angstrom, and Windows CE. You are free to do whatever you want.

Q. How many batteries are in the device?
A. Two. One in each part.

Q. How long is the battery life?
A. Battery life really depends on usage. The standalone touchscreen should last between 3 and 5 hours. With the keyboard attached, the system should last between 10 and 15 hours.

Q. Can the 8GB microSD card be replaced with a larger one?
A. Yes.

Q. Can it run Windows XP/Vista/7?
A. XP and Vista: no. Microsoft is still debating what they will do for Windows 7 regarding their ARM support. You should drop them a line.

Q. Can it run Mac OS X?
A. No.


Unfortunately only shipping in the USA for now.

[azangru]

This is lovely to read

Wow, it is so unbelievably cool!

[Ozor Mox]

Call me computer illiterate then.

By the way, do you build your own laptops and netbooks, too?

That's the problem. It's easy for us to defeat the vicious cycle with desktops, since there are a number of places offering them with no OS pre-installed, or there is the build it yourself option. As well as that, there are less complicated hardware issues (suspend, hibernate, wifi) to content with, and the better possibility of swapping hardware for other hardware.

For laptops and netbooks, I know you disagree but I completely understand people buying Windows with them and then installing Ubuntu. Otherwise it's like some kind of torture trying to find the right thing! Plus it gets you a Windows licence in case of a dual boot or Windows VM, and let's face it, once you get hooked on Linux, what reason is there not to use it whether you use other OSes or not! I guess it's not all bad! :)

This whole campaign has put me right off Asus netbooks though, that's for sure.

[aysiu]

For laptops and netbooks, I know you disagree but I completely understand people buying Windows with them and then installing Ubuntu. Otherwise it's like some kind of torture trying to find the right thing! Plus it gets you a Windows licence in case of a dual boot or Windows VM, and let's face it, once you get hooked on Linux, what reason is there not to use it whether you use other OSes or not! I guess it's not all bad! :) Well, I understand as well. Obviously the short-term benefit is you have a wider selection of hardware choices. The long-term side effect is that there are fewer Linux-preinstalled options.

I'm not saying you have to buy Linux preinstalled. However, if you don't buy Linux preinstalled, then don't complain when OEMs drop Linux preinstalled options. You either pay them money for something, or they'll make money off of something else.

And it's totally different if you dual-boot. If you dual-boot, of course you need a Windows license. I'm talking about situations in which you are going to use Linux anyway.

[Brinstar]

I wonder why the interesting ARM based netbooks get so little attention.

When will they come out, and where to buy them ? Apparently those will be ... Linux only (for the time being) !!! :) :) :)

Let's focus on those ones, and hit Asus with our customer sales.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/07/1156249/ARM-Powered-Linux-Laptops-Unveiled-At-Computex

[init1]

Hello there Mr Laconic. I have no particular problem with people buying Windows when they need it. That said, Windows XP is an eight year old and soon too be obsolete OS. Who in their right minds will choose paying for it? Don't they have anything better to do with their money?
Believe it or not, some people like XP and don't mind that its old

[Brinstar]

windows tax refund

http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381

[aysiu]

windows tax refund

http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381
Here are some excerpts:
Getting your Windows refund may take several hours of work, after which you'll get a small amount of money -- nowhere near the full retail price of Windows on the store shelf.
When your computer arrives, document each step of unloading your computer.
You will be put on hold.
Expect excuses.
Be persistent.
If you're not working with Dell, you may not have the same success. In this case, you might need to take another tack. Small claims court may be an option. That sounds like fun.

All that work for a $50 refund?

I'd rather just buy Linux preinstalled.

[Brinstar]

Here are some excerpts: That sounds like fun.

All the work for a $50 refund?

I'd rather just buy Linux preinstalled.

wow, you sound so.... motivated (yawn)

[Screwdriver0815]

I'd rather just buy Linux preinstalled.
... or without OS.

This is also work and takes time. But it is not as annoying as discussing with people who do not want to do what you want just to get the refund.

[t0p]

Well, considering the website is masquerading as an official website made by ASUS (which it's not)

Duh!


t0p@ubunty:~$ whois asus.co.uk

Domain name:
asus.co.uk

Registrant:
Asustek Computer Inc

Trading as:
Asus

[aysiu]

Duh!
That's changed recently. It used to be registered to an individual.