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View Full Version : We need to make a change



piine
May 29th, 2009, 04:00 PM
I was searching through the net and I came across this article, http://press.redhat.com/2009/05/21/red-hat-challenges-microsoft-lock-in-and-seeks-open-competition-in-switzerland/.

It's talking about how Red Hat is suing the Swiss government because they GAVE a contract to Microsoft without allowing other companies to bid on the contract. This was a huge contract and the Open Source community was completely overlooked because of someone's wants. Absolutely no care of their taxpayer needs, like saving money, or operating on a stable and so on, well you all know.

I feel that Ubuntu / Canoncial, and every other major Distro should sue along with Red Hat. This is a serious issue and all Linux / OSS / FOSS communties should come together on this one.

If we don't stand for something, we will all fall for anything.

Our community has come a long way. Don't let Microsoft (and other proprietary system) and the beaucrat have the upperhand. This situation and any like it will take a heavy toll on the community if we don't do something about it.

you can email betteryourweb@gmail.com if you would like to start a petition as well. Please support.

fatality_uk
May 29th, 2009, 04:10 PM
1. This has nothing to do with U1 so wrong sub-forum
2. You fancy funding a law suit against Microsoft?
3. Even if you did sue, who? And even if you won, I doubt any gov would give a contract based on the outcome of a lawsuit

piine
May 29th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Sorry about the wrong post (where should I post it).

It's not about who gets the contract, exactly. It's about how proprietary system, namely Microsoft, have been making under handed deals for year and everyone that we let slip through the cracks, is another hit to the community.

This is equivalent to the civil rights movement. If no one stood up and made a stand, I would not be able to even have a computer (probably). Like I said, stand for something. If everybody in the community contributed a dollar, just a dollar, the funds would be there to sue, ok maybe two dollars

fatality_uk
May 29th, 2009, 06:10 PM
I'll request it be moved to the Community Cafe.

cariboo
May 29th, 2009, 06:13 PM
Moved to the Community Cafe

fatality_uk
May 29th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Moved to the Community Cafe

Merci :D

hanzomon4
May 29th, 2009, 06:17 PM
Sorry about the wrong post (where should I post it).

It's not about who gets the contract, exactly. It's about how proprietary system, namely Microsoft, have been making under handed deals for year and everyone that we let slip through the cracks, is another hit to the community.

This is equivalent to the civil rights movement. If no one stood up and made a stand, I would not be able to even have a computer (probably). Like I said, stand for something. If everybody in the community contributed a dollar, just a dollar, the funds would be there to sue, ok maybe two dollars

*mouth drops*

Namtabmai
May 29th, 2009, 06:38 PM
*mouth drops*

Wow, I missed that one.

Way out of proportion.

Eisenwinter
May 29th, 2009, 06:40 PM
This should not concern the open source community.

baseface
May 29th, 2009, 06:47 PM
piine, relax, drink a beer. its going to be ok.
i think comparing this to the civil rights movement may be the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my life. but, im only 23, so im sure ill hear a lot more stupid stuff. but so far, this one takes the cake.

monsterstack
May 29th, 2009, 06:52 PM
I was searching through the net and I came across this article, http://press.redhat.com/2009/05/21/red-hat-challenges-microsoft-lock-in-and-seeks-open-competition-in-switzerland/.

It's talking about how Red Hat is suing the Swiss government because they GAVE a contract to Microsoft without allowing other companies to bid on the contract. This was a huge contract and the Open Source community was completely overlooked because of someone's wants. Absolutely no care of their taxpayer needs, like saving money, or operating on a stable and so on, well you all know.

I feel that Ubuntu / Canoncial, and every other major Distro should sue along with Red Hat. This is a serious issue and all Linux / OSS / FOSS communties should come together on this one.

If we don't stand for something, we will all fall for anything.

Our community has come a long way. Don't let Microsoft (and other proprietary system) and the beaucrat have the upperhand. This situation and any like it will take a heavy toll on the community if we don't do something about it.

you can email betteryourweb@gmail.com if you would like to start a petition as well. Please support.

Whilst Red Hat were undoubtedly the largest of the challengers, there were a bunch of them mounting the case. Eighteen companies, if I recall correctly. Secondly, nobody is suing Microsoft here. Red Hat and chums are trying to stop governments from acting in a way that harms competition and, yes, democracy. It is of importance to civil rights, certainly, but it is hyperbole to suggest it is comparable to the rights movements in America in the 1960s.

Simian Man
May 29th, 2009, 06:58 PM
I feel that Ubuntu / Canoncial, and every other major Distro should sue along with Red Hat. This is a serious issue and all Linux / OSS / FOSS communties should come together on this one.


Red Hat dwarfs Canonical and every other Linux vendor (except maybe Suse/Novell) in terms of company size though. They are like ~20 times larger than Canonical and are one of the only Linux companies with the assets or wherewithal to do stuff like this.

Mr. Picklesworth
May 29th, 2009, 06:59 PM
Just don't lose track of what this is about, folks. It's okay that the Swiss Gov't went for Windows and decided there were no viable alternatives (they're allowed to do that and Red Hat is cool with it, I assume). The problem is how they went about doing it.
...Basically, they didn't. They just leapt to the conclusion without consulting or acknowleging the alternatives, which is not healthy for the marketplace, or for democracy. It's also a completely irresponsible way to spend money, which a government needs to be held accountable for.

And kudos to Red Hat for continuing to rock.

piine
May 29th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Well, I think it is a decent comparison. Black people could not vote, use the same restrooms, were ridiculed and so forth, simply because of the prejudices of others. This is the same thing.
The best argument that was given was that linux does not compatible software. Useless their government's computer system's only run games and music apps, (which is about the only thing that windows has that linux is under par), that is a stupid argument the Swiss government is trying to make. I've been using Linux (Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Mint, Knoppix, Madriva, and so on, I test alot) for four years now. Games and maybe music are the only things I would goto Windows for.
That was a discriminatory action and they need to be dealt with. Point blank.

If one Government gets away with, all of them will try. I would put my soul on the fact that Microsoft gave them a great deal under the table. They are scared. When Dell started selling systems with Linux to comsumers, they cringed. Now the world is going web based. I have setup at least 40 offices with Linux systems, running on intrenets as there app server. Microsoft know it can't keep it's strong hold whilst it's software is so expensive and high maintaince and resource hungry.

This is also a great oppurtunity for Linux to show it's worth. To show Microsoft that it can't do what it wants, when it wants. Linux is a superior OS. Not because of all of opinionated crap that people always throw out there either, even though alot of those opinionated arguments make alot of since and appeal to many, but because of it structure. Linux can do everything that Windows and Mac can do and more because we are not restricted. We built our OS ourself and we make what we need and fix it as soon as we find flaws. Unlike the competition, where U must wait for buggy patches and new release.
We need to make a stand. This can affect the world, create more Linux based job, increase the population of Linux based users just from the press. It has so many angles that it can affect the world, but we need to make a stand.

And another point of my comparison arguement, if we didn't make a stand then, we'd still be getting hung from oak trees and shot for associating with other races. It's the same here, just politically and technologically.
If you stand there and let them slap you, they will keep slapping you. Point Blank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

piine
May 29th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Just don't lose track of what this is about, folks. It's okay that the Swiss Gov't went for Windows and decided there were no viable alternatives (they're allowed to do that and Red Hat is cool with it, I assume). The problem is how the went about doing that.
...Basically, they didn't. They just leapt to the conclusion without consulting or acknoledging the alternatives, which is not healthy for the marketplace, or for democracy. It's also a completely irresponsible way to spend money, which a government needs to be held accountable for.

And kudos to Red Hat for continuing to rock.

And no, it's not OK at all.
There are plenty of alternatives that will run everything they need to run and more.
Microsoft is trying it's damnedest to break the Linux community. Bogus deals, patent bs, and so forth. We need to fight back. OK, my frustration is out a lil' bit, but even if I have to do it myself, Microsoft will understand that they can't bully the market or bully open source anymore. WE WON'T HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

don_quixote
May 29th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Well, I think it is a decent comparison. Black people could not vote, use the same restrooms, were ridiculed and so forth, simply because of the prejudices of others. This is the same thing.

:shock:

Think about what you are saying for a second here. Plenty of projects are decided without public tender, and there's usually controversy about it, but civil rights? COME ON!

piine
May 29th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Not on this level. It's even legal or fair. The Swiss is host to Microsoft 2, Microsoft doesn't want to lose it's influence there. They will do whatever it takes to monopolize there. Read up on it. Worlds second largest population of microsoft certified "droids"

piine
May 29th, 2009, 08:44 PM
1st, novell, now the Swiss, what's next

RiceMonster
May 29th, 2009, 08:50 PM
Well, I think it is a decent comparison. Black people could not vote, use the same restrooms, were ridiculed and so forth, simply because of the prejudices of others. This is the same thing.

People's lives and basic rights are not comparable to a software development model at all. You're blowing it way out of proportion. Plus, I don't think this can be classified as discrimination in the first place. It really bothers me when Linux users claim to be "discriminated against".

piine
May 29th, 2009, 09:09 PM
People's lives and basic rights are not comparable to a software development model at all. You're blowing it way out of proportion. Plus, I don't think this can be classified as discrimination in the first place. It really bothers me when Linux users claim to be "discriminated against".

Ok, that point has been blow out of proportion. Let's move on from the civil rights thing, but it is still discrimination. If it's not, then all company that have had bids between MS and Linux and Unix and so for forth should just forfeit there contracts and allow MS to slip in under the radar and start back Monopolizing the industry.

Do you not recall that MS was sued and lost for being a monopoly. If it was AT&T, I would feel the same.

I guess you thinks it's OK that MS is sue happy on smaller Linux distros too.

And I don't feel discriminated against. My company would not be up for the contract either way. I don't own and distro. All other OSes were discriminated against.

I guess u don't realize what is actually going on here, or do just think that MS has reformed and no longer tries to run over it's competition with it's financial weight and legal scare tactics.

MS is an evil company, has been and will continue to be and attitudes like your will keep it that way. We don't have 100 million dollar lawyers working for the communty (well, maybe redhat), so if it's to change, we have to make it change.

Where's Richard Stallman when u need him???

RiceMonster
May 29th, 2009, 09:19 PM
Ok, that point has been blow out of proportion. Let's move on from the civil rights thing, but it is still discrimination. If it's not, then all company that have had bids between MS and Linux and Unix and so for forth should just forfeit there contracts and allow MS to slip in under the radar and start back Monopolizing the industry.

Do you not recall that MS was sued and lost for being a monopoly. If it was AT&T, I would feel the same.

Yes, I think Linux vendors such as Red Hat should be allowed to bid (I think Red Hat is a great company, as a matter of fact). However, do you really feel violated about this? It's just an operating system, for christ's sake. The only ones who are at a loss here is Red Hat. You aren't being forced to use another operating system. It doesn't affect you like you think it does. This is just a buisiness matter, it's not a human crisis.


I guess you thinks it's OK that MS is sue happy on smaller Linux distros too.

Examples please.


And I don't feel discriminated against.

Really? You compared it to the civil rights movement, then called it discrimination (I refer to the quote above) and yet you don't feel discriminated against? I don't get it.



My company would not be up for the contract either way. I don't own and distro. All other OSes were discriminated against.

So what? It's business, get over it.


I guess u don't realize what is actually going on here, or do just think that MS has reformed and no longer tries to run over it's competition with it's financial weight and legal scare tactics.

No, I do know what's going on. I just realize this doesn't involve me and doesn't affect my usage of Linux. Enough Microsoft conspiracy theories from overly excited new Linux users already. Also, last time I checked, it was the swiss government who just gave Microsoft the contract in the first place.


MS is an evil company, has been and will continue to be and attitudes like your will keep it that way. We don't have 100 million dollar lawyers working for the communty (well, maybe redhat), so if it's to change, we have to make it change.

Most companies are arguably evil. That's capitalism for ya'.


Where's Richard Stallman when u need him???

I bet he's already talked about this.

monsterstack
May 29th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Ok, that point has been blow out of proportion. Let's move on from the civil rights thing, but it is still discrimination. If it's not, then all company that have had bids between MS and Linux and Unix and so for forth should just forfeit there contracts and allow MS to slip in under the radar and start back Monopolizing the industry.

Do you not recall that MS was sued and lost for being a monopoly. If it was AT&T, I would feel the same.

I guess you thinks it's OK that MS is sue happy on smaller Linux distros too.

And I don't feel discriminated against. My company would not be up for the contract either way. I don't own and distro. All other OSes were discriminated against.

I guess u don't realize what is actually going on here, or do just think that MS has reformed and no longer tries to run over it's competition with it's financial weight and legal scare tactics.

MS is an evil company, has been and will continue to be and attitudes like your will keep it that way. We don't have 100 million dollar lawyers working for the communty (well, maybe redhat), so if it's to change, we have to make it change.

Where's Richard Stallman when u need him???

Microsoft have been committed to destroying Linux for years. I don't believe things are any different now. The fact that Red Hat and chums are taking action along these lines tells me, however, that things are already beginning to change. Linux isn't going anywhere. If you haven't already noticed: we're still here. We haven't lost anything. Linux has been going from strength to strength in spite of everything. Microsoft can claim small victories such as the TomTom case you were alluding to, and by bullying Linux companies into signing mystery patent agreements. But the latest evidence I have seen is that Microsoft is rapidly losing ground in their battle to destroy Linux. I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before hardware vendors start properly supporting Linux, and before retailers are bold enough to stock Linux pre-installed. Many already do these things. As Linux usage grows, it will eventually become a stupid business decision to refuse to support Linux. Microsoft can't do anything about that. Not a damn thing.

SuperSonic4
May 29th, 2009, 09:27 PM
Microsoft have been committed to destroying Linux for years. I don't believe things are any different now. The fact that Red Hat and chums are taking action along these lines tells me, however, that things are already beginning to change. Linux isn't going anywhere. If you haven't already noticed: we're still here. We haven't lost anything. Linux has been going from strength to strength in spite of everything. Microsoft can claim small victories such as the TomTom case you were alluding to, and by bullying Linux companies into signing mystery patent agreements. But the latest evidence I have seen is that Microsoft is rapidly losing ground in their battle to destroy Linux. I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before hardware vendors start properly supporting Linux, and before retailers are bold enough to stock Linux pre-installed. Many already do these things. As Linux usage grows, it will eventually become a stupid business decision to refuse to support Linux. Microsoft can't do anything about that. Not a damn thing.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the public. Few will want to change, especially in the workplace. It will require a generation at least to get linux fully mainstream

piine
May 29th, 2009, 09:59 PM
RiceMonster (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=549308):

Ok, whatever. You feel how you feel and I feel how I feel. Apparently, some of us don't realize that one situation can affect SEVERAL others. It is not just a business issue and I have been a linux user long enough to be declassified as a noob.
You have to look beyond things at face value. Any event that transpires in which MS screws any other OS affects us all, Mac, Linux, Unix, Solaris, etc. This does not just affect Red Hat. Canonical could have put up a bid, as well any other distro with good support, but how could they when they didn't even offer a bid.
The Swiss gov't operates in many ways as the US, and a project of that caliber is supposed to be bidded on. It is the fairness of it. This is only my opnion, but I would have to say that given the relationship of the Swiss and Microsoft, MS went in and manipulated the situation to not be bid on because they knew that they had a good chance to be outbid by any of the larger Open Source distros. No licences to buy or renew, lesser hardware requirements, which equates to lesser cost on hardware and so for. It is estimates that going with Red Hat would save their country ~600 million a year. So my argument is not premised on being a "noob' as you say, it is because I have a business and I am a tax payer and our (meaning the world's) economy is in turmoil, as well, I do love Linux, like I said, been an avid user for 4 yrs straight, I have played with Linux for 11yrs.
There are many, many, many reasons why I feel we should all take a stand in this matter, and each of them are logical, thoughtout reasons.

How about you stand over there in the crowd of people who can careless, and careless, and those of us you do care, and realize the discrimination of not only SEVERAL OSes, but the discrimination of businesses and the tax payers (even they are not from my country), we will do what we think is right and necessary.

Just a thought, if all people in the Linux communty thought like you, there would be no Linux community, linux would still JUST be a project and have no place in the world. Luckily, for the rest of us and you, when things do get to a point where it maybe potentially harmful us, we fight back. It's how we keep pushing, and that is not just for the Linux community, that's for life.

piine
May 29th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Microsoft have been committed to destroying Linux for years. I don't believe things are any different now. The fact that Red Hat and chums are taking action along these lines tells me, however, that things are already beginning to change. Linux isn't going anywhere. If you haven't already noticed: we're still here. We haven't lost anything. Linux has been going from strength to strength in spite of everything. Microsoft can claim small victories such as the TomTom case you were alluding to, and by bullying Linux companies into signing mystery patent agreements. But the latest evidence I have seen is that Microsoft is rapidly losing ground in their battle to destroy Linux. I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before hardware vendors start properly supporting Linux, and before retailers are bold enough to stock Linux pre-installed. Many already do these things. As Linux usage grows, it will eventually become a stupid business decision to refuse to support Linux. Microsoft can't do anything about that. Not a damn thing.


The reason we are still here is because we stood up and fought. Stand still will do nothing. Luckily RedHat is big enough to make waves, not just ripples.

Remember, one voice may never be heard, but a million voices will move the Earth.