Thinking about going to OSX. Please attack me

[naked]

I've used Debian/Ubuntu/Linux for two years or so. I have a Dell Inspiron 700m (laptop) and I'm pretty happy with how things are going. Except Ubuntu just feels awkward to me somehow. Every time I look at or mess with OSX I feel comfortable. Everything seems to flow well and be well integrated.

I can sell my laptop and get a new iBook and not lose any money. However, my laptop is better spec wise than the iBook, but really pretty close.

I'm tired of have programs mess up. I know that nothing will ever be perfect, but between web browsers, music apps, video apps, word processors, etc... I get tired of having errors. I also get tired of wanting something newer, and so I dig around and install unstable things, (I don't think that is where my errors are though), but I end up spending a lot of time trying to get different things to work. Like Cinerella, beagle via cvs, and others.

I feel that OSX would in some ways solve my problems, and in other ways it would cease me from creating new 'problems' and piddling my time away.

I also seem to like change a lot, so that might be the majority of my issue.

Anyone care to yell at me or talk some sense into me, offer advice. I need computer counseling!

L

[aysiu]

Get OS X. Use whatever works for you.
The best part--if you later decide you want Ubuntu again--there's a PowerPC version of Ubuntu you can dual boot with OS X on your iBook.

[peterbrowne]

The new i386 macs have been released

[BSDFreak]

I've used Debian/Ubuntu/Linux for two years or so. I have a Dell Inspiron 700m (laptop) and I'm pretty happy with how things are going. Except Ubuntu just feels awkward to me somehow. Every time I look at or mess with OSX I feel comfortable. Everything seems to flow well and be well integrated.

I can sell my laptop and get a new iBook and not lose any money. However, my laptop is better spec wise than the iBook, but really pretty close.

I'm tired of have programs mess up. I know that nothing will ever be perfect, but between web browsers, music apps, video apps, word processors, etc... I get tired of having errors. I also get tired of wanting something newer, and so I dig around and install unstable things, (I don't think that is where my errors are though), but I end up spending a lot of time trying to get different things to work. Like Cinerella, beagle via cvs, and others.

I feel that OSX would in some ways solve my problems, and in other ways it would cease me from creating new 'problems' and piddling my time away.

I also seem to like change a lot, so that might be the majority of my issue.

Anyone care to yell at me or talk some sense into me, offer advice. I need computer counseling!

L

Get OSX, nobody really cares what you are using, Windows, OSX, *BSD or Linux are all great systems for the users that use and prefer them.

I'd say you have more serious problems than which OS you are running if your web browsers, music apps, video apps, word processors, etc from Breezy stable are giving you errors since they work just fine for others. I'd venture to say that you are either exxagerating, overclocking or there is a problem with your hardware itself. (that is, if you are using the stable versions and not messing with your system beyond what is considered standard).

[BSDFreak]

The new i386 macs have been released

Won't ship until february though and i'd be surprised if you could really get one before March.

[Mr_Grieves]

I think what's most important is ones frame of mind. You can still help the Open Source movement and Ubuntu, even if you're on OSX :)

I think it looks great. I cousine is a total MacOS freak and always tries to get me to convert to OSX. With it's new *BSD core I think it's pretty tempting.. but I cannot.. Mac OS is still some where in an obscure part of my mind like.. euro disco. I would never admit to liking it, neither would I play it at home. But if it comes up on the radio.. I might enjoy it. Hahahaha.

Check in with Ubuntu in a year or so. Who knows perhaps then it will be right for you :)

[drizek]

and the core duo ibooks are still not available.

one major thing you will be giving up is the lcd. yours is much nicer than teh one on the ibook. it is widescreen, glossy, and a higher resolution. Hardware wise, going to the ibook will feel like a downgrade, and ubutnu does actually work pretty well. you really shouldnt be having errors or problems with it. If you are more specific about waht exactly the problem is, im sure the people here can help you figure it out. Also, if you dont like gnome, try messing around with kde, xfce or e17.

[imagine]

And the MacBook Pro rather looks like a replacement for the iBook than for the PowerBook.

The PowerBook has a modem, FireWire 800, S-Video output and a DoubleLayer DVD-Burner. The MacBook Pro, which is supposed to be its successor and represent the high-end line of Apple-Notebooks, has nothing of that.
I guess ending the development process six months earlier than expected wasn't that good.

[ssam]

you'll be back :-)

i started using linux quite a few years ago on a crt iMac, then i got a powerbook for uni and ran mac os x for about a year, then i came back to linux. i think it was mostly the applications that pulled me back. fink kept things barable for a while, but x11 apps dont fit too well into mac os x.

then again you might like mac os x lots. its a pretty nice system, lots of very good points to it.

as someone said, now might be an awkward time to by an apple laptop. i expect there are big queues on the macbooks, and the ibooks are due an upgrade. you might get a good deal on powerpc stock though. maybe second hand.

[mstlyevil]

If you can scrape up $500 USD you can own a mac-mini as your second computer. Then you would have the best of both worlds and sacrifice nothing in return.

[DJ_Max]

And the MacBook Pro rather looks like a replacement for the iBook than for the PowerBook.

The PowerBook has a modem, FireWire 800, S-Video output and a DoubleLayer DVD-Burner. The MacBook Pro, which is supposed to be its successor and represent the high-end line of Apple-Notebooks, has nothing of that.
I guess ending the development process six months earlier than expected wasn't that good.
But it isn't, the MacBook Pro is a replacement for the PowerBook, the lack of firewire ports and other parts are due to power issues. There's a replacement for the iBook coming soon. (MacBook Lite ??).

I for one agree with aysiu, I've been dual booting OS X and a different distro of linux for a while, and probably won't change anytime soon.

[drizek]

there will also be a dual core mac mini coming soon, so now is a bad time to get a mac.

[JimmyJazz]

I liked OS X for a while then slowley realized that its a pain in the neck to use (as far as doing actual work on). Also OS X really didn't come with that many apps in fact the barebones version is pretty much useless for anything other than e-mail and web surfing where as Ubuntu came with Office apps and much much more. Also plan on investing in RAM because Tiger eats alot.
But I think you should try it out if you want you can always come back to Ubuntu.

[xequence]

Id recomend one of these:

1. Get OSx86 on your current laptop
2. Wait till you can get an x86 mac legally and get it, so you can use windows/linux/freebsd/whatever you want along with it.

[maruchan]

I used OS X for a while, then I got a bit tired of it. I especially disliked the fact that so many "little" apps that I found necessary just to make the desktop useful were for-pay only. Pretty soon I realized that the Mac is just a centerpiece in some sort of strange economic universe where it's OK that things cost 2x more than they should.

I felt like I was using a system that was good, but only at a cost. If you are willing to pay the money, I'm sure Apple will be more than happy to give you a good desktop experience in exchange.

The fact that I now do support for another graphic designer's Macs hasn't helped things either. I see her practically dumping trash bags full of money down Apple's throat, and then Adobe's throat, and so on. In return, she gets the satisfaction of constantly asking when I'm going to get a Mac.

I've decided that even though a brand new Mac wouldn't be out of place considering my lifestyle (graphic artist), I also have a responsibility to "be real" with my finances. If I can be smart about it, and figure out a way to make Linux work (which it is doing, alongside Windows), so much the better.

In short, it reminds me of the shoe commercial where the camera is circling around a runner while he runs through the desert. We see his fancy shoes, Brand X. Then we cut to a shot of the steadycam operator, who is running circles around the runner while wearing a cheaper brand of shoes. :D

Anyway, if Mac OS somehow "fits" you emotionally or otherwise, there's nothing wrong with that. I totally understand. But if you haven't been to Mac land before, just remember the "grass is always greener..."

[DigitalDuality]

I actually quite like my Mac Mini. Apple to me i have a hate/love relationship with. In terms of a business model and my ideals about software.. they can be just as evil as MS, but they have embraced *BSD through Darwin/Darwin Ports.

Lots of 'nix apps run on OS X which i found to be a plus and the user interface is great IMO.

In terms of an OS though... i might get flamed for this, but it's far superior to Linux. Such a shame it's so propreitary to a hard-ware set and costs 100 bucks every year for the latest version..and a shame the company is developing a real habit for being "pioneers" with DRM.

I had less problems with OS X then WIndows.. and the install and installing applications is easy as,(or easier than) Windows and you get 'nix-esque stability.

I currently have mine dual booting Ubuntu which was a task and a half. But i never used the Ubuntu on it. I'm now primarily using Ubuntu.. mainly b/c of my beliefs in open source. So i'm willing to go through the trouble....and i also would love to learn linux from the user perspective and grow so i can manage 'nix servers with a bit more ease.

[naked]

Perhaps the problems with my errors are in the fact that I do probably poke to much. And that I am on my first install of ubuntu. Which went from Warty -> dev-dapper -> dapper/custom debs.

I should probably do a fresh install, but that is never an enjoyable experience. But not more painful than switching to OSX I suppose.

I'd be perfectly happy if I could just have iCal and a few other apps.

Hum... fresh install might be coming this weekend then.

L

[poofyhairguy]

I've used Debian/Ubuntu/Linux for two years or so. I have a Dell Inspiron 700m (laptop) and I'm pretty happy with how things are going. Except Ubuntu just feels awkward to me somehow. Every time I look at or mess with OSX I feel comfortable. Everything seems to flow well and be well integrated.

I can sell my laptop and get a new iBook and not lose any money. However, my laptop is better spec wise than the iBook, but really pretty close.

I'm tired of have programs mess up. I know that nothing will ever be perfect, but between web browsers, music apps, video apps, word processors, etc... I get tired of having errors. I also get tired of wanting something newer, and so I dig around and install unstable things, (I don't think that is where my errors are though), but I end up spending a lot of time trying to get different things to work. Like Cinerella, beagle via cvs, and others.

I feel that OSX would in some ways solve my problems, and in other ways it would cease me from creating new 'problems' and piddling my time away.

I also seem to like change a lot, so that might be the majority of my issue.

Anyone care to yell at me or talk some sense into me, offer advice. I need computer counseling!

L

Well...now is a bad time to buy. Wait till after the single core Intel iBooks are announced.

I have been using a Powerbook for the past week, and it made me want to switch to OSX much less. Why?

Well, the biggest problem for OSX is that its Open Office sucks. So whatever Mac you are looking at be sure to add the cost of MS's Office to stay compatible with the world.

In fact, lots of its programs cost fairly high amounts. It can be pretty shocking for a former GNU user. And you might think "well, I'll just steal the applications I need off the Internet like I did with Windows back in the day (you might not think that but still)" but its pretty hard to steal Mac programs. The crack sites and P2P apps like Limewire are full of Windows applications, not Mac ones. Eventually you will have to pay. I couldn't even find a free version of the GIMP that would work well with it. Thats a huge flaw for me.

Second flaw is the speed. Maybe not on a quad-core G5 or a new dual core Powerbook (or whatever it is) with a gig of RAM. But my sister's Powerbook (the last model sold before the new Intel ones) with a half gig of RAM feels WAY slower than my Pentium 4 with a half gig of RAM. Some of that might be the CPU....but its can't be all of it. After three days I wanted to murder the beach ball.

Third flaw is lockin. This is what killed my OSX dream this week. If you are willing to get an Apple iPod to hook up to your Apple iBook after buying songs from the Apple Music store than it will work like gravy. Replace any of that with cheaper non-Apple stuff and it starts to not work so well (well...except maybe music from elsewhere).

Best example of this I can think of is the fact that my sister's Powerbook would not automatically get on the wireless network and hit the internet with a Linksys router- replaced it with an Apple one and it worked fine! Don't get into Appleland if you are cheap- despite the people that kid themselves on the internet forums its an upper class system for those with upper class budgets. Its the BMW of the computer industry.

Plus some other things got ot me after a week of use. The dock is cool at first....but soon I want to kill some of the bouncing icons. I dislike that it lacks a real maximize. No virtual desktops easily. Etc.

But if it matchs your budget and your lifestyle then go for it. My sister loves her Powerbook. And even I must admit some things are REALLY neat (Expose). Just don't kid yourself- getting a Mac is like moving to the suburbs. It looks nice and works together well, but everything is going to cost more.

But blessings to you in whatever you do.

http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=13218

[BSDFreak]

Id recomend one of these:

1. Get OSx86 on your current laptop
2. Wait till you can get an x86 mac legally and get it, so you can use windows/linux/freebsd/whatever you want along with it.

1. Even if this wasn't illegal it's quite possibly the worst advice to someone who complains about stability. The hardware support is non-existant as is the software support for it. Even if you manage to get it to work it'll be all other than stable.

2. Good advice.

[poofyhairguy]

there will also be a dual core mac mini coming soon.

Any proof it will be dual core?

I have seen that a lot on the net and it seems like wishful thinking.

[BSDFreak]

Any proof it will be dual core?

I have seen that a lot on the net and it seems like wishful thinking.

I'd be interested in that too, i have yet to see anything on the matter from any official source.

[Iandefor]

In the context of Apple's switch to the x86 architecture, now would be a bad time to buy a Mac. My suggestion is to find an OS for x86 that you like up until the Apple freaks finish clamouring for the latest Apple toy so that you can actually get your hands on one. I'm not discouraging you from purchasing from Apple, I'm just saying that now is not the greatest time to buy one.

I agree with Poofyhairguy. Add in the cost of Office if you need to use MS's formas. Appleworks doesn't export to Office files at all well.

[drizek]

Any proof it will be dual core?

I have seen that a lot on the net and it seems like wishful thinking.

i really meant to say an intel powered mac mini.

the only sign of it being dualcore is a few months ago, IIRC, at a MS confrence, intel displayed a computer running a dual core cpu that was about the size of the mac mini.

on one hand it is very possible from a hardware POV to make one, on the other hand, it will cannibalize imac sales. same applies to the ibook vs macbook.

[viscount]

Who says that it must be all or nothing?

Personally I use Ubuntu at home right now, but when these new
Mac-tel boxes become available I will buy one.. however this doesn't
mean Im going to throw away my Ubuntu box.

My reasons for keeping Linux around forever.
#1 Open source is cool
#2 You'll be better at using OSX if you know how to operate in
a more traditional 'nix environment
#3 'nix experience is becoming more and more valuble on a resume.
#4 'nix is very homogenous, you can do _anything_ with Linux.

My reasons for getting my feet wet with OSX
#1 OSX is sexy
#2 You can't do _anything_ with OSX, but you can do _somethings_ very very well.
#3 OSX is gonna skyrocket, I see OSX skills becoming more valuble in the future too.

Think outside the box man, dont just go for the all or nothing shite.
Learn everything, use everything.. even Winblows.

[cityismine]

Get the hacked OS X, that runs on PC hardware.

Why OS X runs faster on PC than Apple hardware (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,68501,00.html)

[dosed150]

i really meant to say an intel powered mac mini.

the only sign of it being dualcore is a few months ago, IIRC, at a MS confrence, intel displayed a computer running a dual core cpu that was about the size of the mac mini.
.

that could have been a dual core version of that aopen/evesham mini which is a lot more overpriced

[BSDFreak]

Who says that it must be all or nothing?

Personally I use Ubuntu at home right now, but when these new
Mac-tel boxes become available I will buy one.. however this doesn't
mean Im going to throw away my Ubuntu box.

My reasons for keeping Linux around forever.
#1 Open source is cool
#2 You'll be better at using OSX if you know how to operate in
a more traditional 'nix environment
#3 'nix experience is becoming more and more valuble on a resume.
#4 'nix is very homogenous, you can do _anything_ with Linux.

My reasons for getting my feet wet with OSX
#1 OSX is sexy
#2 You can't do _anything_ with OSX, but you can do _somethings_ very very well.
#3 OSX is gonna skyrocket, I see OSX skills becoming more valuble in the future too.

Think outside the box man, dont just go for the all or nothing shite.
Learn everything, use everything.. even Winblows.

I agree on everything except that OSX is going to skyrocket, if it would it would have already, it's still locked to the hardware, just like it was before, it's still going to lack application support and it is still not going to be Windows.

If any company wanted to move from windows then why on earth would they move to a system that isn't really better in any area but worse in at least two ways (locked to proprietary hardware and software)?

[BSDFreak]

Get the hacked OS X, that runs on PC hardware.

Why OS X runs faster on PC than Apple hardware (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,68501,00.html)
1. It's illegal and advocating piracy is against the forum rules last i checked.

Adult Content/Violence/Illegal Activity: Messages containing offensive / sexually oriented / violent / illegal dialog, images, content, or links to such will be deleted. Messages with links to or suggesting illegal activity will also be deleted. These actions could result in a ban.

2. It runs on PC hardware but not on *any* PC hardware.
3. It's useless since you won't be getting hold of any software for it.

That article is so poorly written and so filled with factual errors that it's not even funny.

[Azriphale]

If any company wanted to move from windows then why on earth would they move to a system that isn't really better in any area but worse in at least two ways (locked to proprietary hardware and software)?

Hah!
My sister just won't listen to reason. :)
If you want to go for a mac, do it. I don't like the idea that if you want to use the OS, you need to get the hardware too.

If you want to go ahead, but I'm not certain the performance is actually comparable. I don't think Mac OSX is a efficient as Linux..

[cityismine]

I don't know what you mean by "illegal activity". I haven't posted a link to the hacked OS X, or shown anyone how to get it. I've just opened the topic for discussion. Plus I don't think it's considered piracy if someone who already has an OS X COA, and decides to try the hacked OS X. So just because it's hacked doesn't mean it's pirated.

[blueturtl]

I've used Debian/Ubuntu/Linux for two years or so. I have a Dell Inspiron 700m (laptop) and I'm pretty happy with how things are going. Except Ubuntu just feels awkward to me somehow. Every time I look at or mess with OSX I feel comfortable. Everything seems to flow well and be well integrated.

This is the reason a lot of people (even if it's a marginal group) choose the Mac. It's easy because it's so well integrated and built. If you feel better using a Mac, you should be on a Mac.


If any company wanted to move from windows then why on earth would they move to a system that isn't really better in any area but worse in at least two ways (locked to proprietary hardware and software)?

Oh I don't know about you, but I think Apple's software is much more robust than Microsoft's. It's a more secure design, it has a more usable GUI and it's definately more plug&play than Windows still is. If you have a problem with propriatory things Apple might not appeal to you, but out of the two propriatory worlds out there (Microsoft's and Apple's) that are available for the desktop Apple wins hands down. Having the system built by the same people who are behind the OS really gives it an advantage over a system that tries to support everything through 3rd party drivers and software.

Of course an average geek will want to switch peripherals and configure custom software, but most people just want to use, and for them an Apple system would make more sence than a custom-built PC that does the same things an Apple does, but in a more half-assed manner.

Windows is just as locked to propriatory software as Apple is, but the benefits of propriatory technology are lost when using Windows because Windows runs only on an open architecture which is better for open operating systems and software! In short, it doesn't make sence to run Windows on a PC because the nature of the PC is more like the nature of Linux.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: if Microsoft made computers, people would pick Apple or in case they wanted customizable systems, a PC with *nix!

[BSDFreak]

Oh I don't know about you, but I think Apple's software is much more robust than Microsoft's. It's a more secure design, it has a more usable GUI and it's definately more plug&play than Windows still is. If you have a problem with propriatory things Apple might not appeal to you, but out of the two propriatory worlds out there (Microsoft's and Apple's) that are available for the desktop Apple wins hands down. Having the system built by the same people who are behind the OS really gives it an advantage over a system that tries to support everything through 3rd party drivers and software.

You think the same people who design OSX build the system? You don't think that Apple uses other companies drivers? ATI won't release their driver specs to ANYONE, that includes Apple, so do they use no drivers or do they use third party drivers?


Of course an average geek will want to switch peripherals and configure custom software, but most people just want to use, and for them an Apple system would make more sence than a custom-built PC that does the same things an Apple does, but in a more half-assed manner.

Ya, if i need better graphics, it's better to buy an entirly new computer, seriously...


Windows is just as locked to propriatory software as Apple is, but the benefits of propriatory technology are lost when using Windows because Windows runs only on an open architecture which is better for open operating systems and software! In short, it doesn't make sence to run Windows on a PC because the nature of the PC is more like the nature of Linux.

I seriously don't get where you come up with this crap. We were discussing OSX vs Windows and if OSX is going to take off when it is introduced, i explained why it's not and you are just rambling.


I've said it once and I'll say it again: if Microsoft made computers, people would pick Apple or in case they wanted customizable systems, a PC with *nix!

And if horses could fly you'd be ducking all the time. But MS don't make computers and horses don't fly so the entire discussion is retarded.

[BSDFreak]

I don't know what you mean by "illegal activity". I haven't posted a link to the hacked OS X, or shown anyone how to get it. I've just opened the topic for discussion. Plus I don't think it's considered piracy if someone who already has an OS X COA, and decides to try the hacked OS X. So just because it's hacked doesn't mean it's pirated.

Oh for the love of GOD, READ WHAT I QUOTED. "suggesting illegal activity".

And since it's illegal to be in possesion of the hacked copy it doesn't really matter if you have 100 computers with copies of OSX.

Even if you COULD run the regular OSX on another PC you are breaking the EULA by doing so, so it would still be illegal.

[fuscia]

#1 OSX is sexy


osx, like kde, strikes me as being about as sexy as fake breasts.

[poofyhairguy]

osx, like kde, strikes me as being about as sexy as fake breasts.

I don't know another poster on the forum that makes me laugh more.

[aysiu]

OS X uses sudo.
Ubuntu uses sudo.

[Lord Illidan]

osx, like kde, strikes me as being about as sexy as fake breasts.

V funny...
I like the look of Mac OSX but I don't want to switch from Ubuntu. Solution = install baghira theme. Now I am rocking on Kubuntu with brushed metal everywhere.

Now, it is your choice entirely. Personally, I would save the money...

[mstlyevil]

osx, like kde, strikes me as being about as sexy as fake breasts.

Fake breast are a great novelty. Yet most men do not want their own wives/girlfriends getting them.

[fuscia]

i'm happy with openbox, myself.

[stimpack]

Ive been looking at getting a Mac too, for some reason they seem desirable to me both hardware wise and OS wise. However since investigating about a month ago I've met disapointment follwed by disapointment.

The hardware is very poor spec-wise (Intel Macbook included), OS X is a dog and needs 1gig, most systems only ship with 512meg.

Ive played with OS X x86 and yes it looks nice, much cleaner than Vista or KDE but less power than Vista or KDE, but yes looks awesome. No virtual screens, after linux I pretty much need them, expose is rubbish.

Beach Balls!, omg this is the biggie, OS X is like Windows 3.1 with the hour glass, except the hour glass is a beach ball, what the hell is that all about?.

Apple worship, this is horrible, I picked up a copy of Mac Format (UK sister mag of Linux Format), and it wasnt so much giving me Mac info as idolising the ground Apple walks on. Never read such sycophantic crap in my life. And no Mac Format, the 3 best mp3 players are not god damn iPods.

iTunes is ok, but I prefer Amarok. I want to do DVD authoring and the Mac wins here, Linux is awfull for this. I want easy WPA wireless and hope the mac can do this because again Linux sucks at this.

Software is not free, unless your into warez, Mac is going to deal a world of hurt to your wallet.

Ive been very disapointed since investigating buying a Mac.. and yet... strangly I still kind want one... wierd.

[DigitalDuality]

Well...now is a bad time to buy. Wait till after the single core Intel iBooks are announced.

I have been using a Powerbook for the past week, and it made me want to switch to OSX much less. Why?

Well, the biggest problem for OSX is that its Open Office sucks. So whatever Mac you are looking at be sure to add the cost of MS's Office to stay compatible with the world.

I tried out both the OpenOffice through X11 and NeoOffice. I definately like NeoOffice better, but i had problems with neither at home and in a business environment. What went wrong?



In fact, lots of its programs cost fairly high amounts. It can be pretty shocking for a former GNU user. And you might think "well, I'll just steal the applications I need off the Internet like I did with Windows back in the day (you might not think that but still)" but its pretty hard to steal Mac programs. The crack sites and P2P apps like Limewire are full of Windows applications, not Mac ones. Eventually you will have to pay. I couldn't even find a free version of the GIMP that would work well with it. Thats a huge flaw for me.

I got tons of programs to work and do what i needed them to do..for free and legally. GIMP, again, worked perfectly for me.. just as it does in Windows and Linux. Inkscape/Blender installed and work without problems, VLC and MPlayer worked fine, Adium is a great alternative to GAIM and open source and that worked well. (i actually like the skins on that more so than any IM program out there). If you feel the need for an anti-virus (which is pretty pointless, unless you're protecting near-by windows computers for viruses you may carry.. McAfee offers a version, and ClamX works just fine too. Chicken of the VNC is my favorite VNC application out of all the OSes and that works like a charm. Solarseek, p2p soulseek for mac, worked great. I had zero problems with any apps and never purchased a single thing that didn't come in the box. Scribus (printing/publishing software) gave me the most trouble upon install..but eventually i got that to work too. Took about an hour of playing around.

As for stolen apps, which i'm not an advocate of, obtaining MS Office, the macromedia and adobe suites is not that hard through torrents.



Second flaw is the speed. Maybe not on a quad-core G5 or a new dual core Powerbook (or whatever it is) with a gig of RAM. But my sister's Powerbook (the last model sold before the new Intel ones) with a half gig of RAM feels WAY slower than my Pentium 4 with a half gig of RAM. Some of that might be the CPU....but its can't be all of it. After three days I wanted to murder the beach ball.
Did she have alot of programs that ran in the background? I have a mac mini 1.42Ghz with 256MB of RAM and i got really tired of the beach ball too. I upgraded to 1GB..and rarely even saw it.



Plus some other things got ot me after a week of use. The dock is cool at first....but soon I want to kill some of the bouncing icons. I dislike that it lacks a real maximize. No virtual desktops easily. Etc.
You can make the icons not bounce.

[gordyt]

Naked I'm already doing what you are considering. I use Ubuntu on my desktop machine and have a Mac PowerBook (running OS X) that I tote around with me.

It's been a very workable combination for me and I haven't hit upon any serious snags. By the way, OpenOffice 2.0 runs very well on the PowerBook. Granted its running in X11, but still I've had no problems with the functionality - just doesn't look quite as nice as a Cocoa app.

--gordon

[quietglow]

I own a copy of OS 7 that I bought when it came out and I also was stupid enough to BUY the beta of OS X. I've used Mac since 1983. Earlier this year I finally got sick of Apple's bull and got off the wagon. I was going to write a nice long email about the problems I see with OS X, but Poofy did a wonderful job.

I actually use a Mac every day at work (I administer a whole slew of em). You know what I miss most when I sit down at my Mac at work? Multiple desktops.

If this were a Mac forum, someone would instantly send me an email saying that I could get some shareware prog that does virtual desktops. It would work forever, but start playing annoying messages after 30 days until I paid $20. Thats Macland.

Macworld was a real stress for those of us trying to kick the Apple addiction: it made me start a blog:

www.joekallo.com

[drizek]

i used to be a macaholic as well. then i realized i would not only have to start paying for software, i would have to pay more than it cost for the same stuff for windows. I realized that after a couple weeks, when i get over the novelty of OSX, the thing would become a paperweight. I didnt like the idea of having to pay 130 dollars to get safari and i didnt like it when they killed iTools and replaced it with .mac. The real issue there was listening to all the mac luvers chearing Jobs on while he announced the death of iTools and the introduction of a $100 a year service instead. Between .mac and OS upgrades, id wager that most mac enthusiasts spend about $200 a year, not including any third party stuff. Ill stick to linux and gmail thank you very much.

Anyway, i managed to really get over the mac when i pirated windows xp. I had been running windows me before that and xp seemed like a gift from the heavens. but after a while i realized it was pretty slow, and since it was one of the original pirated copies, windows update refused to work. At that point a friend told me that linux was faster, so i downloaded mandrake and well.. ATI 7000. i think you guys get the idea. Back to windows xp for me. A couple years later i got back into linux and i love it.

[sites]

i'm doin that too. powerbook & a multiboot box at home. i've tried darwin ports. now i'm giving fink a try. both have suited my needs just fine. i read somewhere that the head dude with darwin ports also works for apple. it would be interesting to know more about that, but its probably a good thing. i need it for a few a/v editing programs & such. i like os x too. a few complaints about mem-hungry widgets & i prefer quicksilver to spotlight for quicklaunching a program. since the work with reverse engineering airport extreme has now begun showing success there will be an incentive for progress with the ppc distro(s) for a few more years. you can get up to 5 hrs on the battery & they dont cost too much to replace. the macbook pro page at apple mentions nothing about the battery life & it doesnt look like it will be as good as the powerbook.

[dada1958]

Mac OS X isn't that bad, I use it myself and I like it a lot. I just don't like the company, Apple, that is too eager on money and hype. A ceo who thinks that his customers are retarded, with his eternal 'you're going to like this' during his keynotes. That was reason enough to give Ubuntu a chance in August last year and hey, it was a revalation. Besides I like Canonical and its ceo, their mission to bring a decent OS to everyone.
Applications like Quicksilver and TeXShop were responsible for my upgrade to Tiger, equivalents could give Ubuntu an even bigger boost...

[drizek]

dont know what texshop is, but there is a quicksilver equivelant in kubuntu called katapult. it works well on other distros, but it is currently broken in dapper. im sure it will work better by the time dapper is released.

[poofyhairguy]

I tried out both the OpenOffice through X11 and NeoOffice. I definately like NeoOffice better, but i had problems with neither at home and in a business environment. What went wrong?

Nothing went wrong for you it seems. Good. I am WAY picky when it comes to Office software. NeoOffice is a good project, but it reminds me of OpenOffice 1.x (which was NOT good enough for me).



I got tons of programs to work and do what i needed them to do..for free and legally. GIMP, again, worked perfectly for me.. just as it does in Windows and Linux. Inkscape/Blender installed and work without problems, VLC and MPlayer worked fine, Adium is a great alternative to GAIM and open source and that worked well. (i actually like the skins on that more so than any IM program out there). If you feel the need for an anti-virus (which is pretty pointless, unless you're protecting near-by windows computers for viruses you may carry.. McAfee offers a version, and ClamX works just fine too. Chicken of the VNC is my favorite VNC application out of all the OSes and that works like a charm. Solarseek, p2p soulseek for mac, worked great. I had zero problems with any apps and never purchased a single thing that didn't come in the box. Scribus (printing/publishing software) gave me the most trouble upon install..but eventually i got that to work too. Took about an hour of playing around.

There is much good free software on OSX- I like that platform's Mplayer way better.

But there is not a huge respository (even a web page) that allows me to download and install native (no Xserver- if I pay for OSX I want Aqua apps that play nice with the desktop- so fink is out in my mind) libre applications.

But there is many libre programs. I would bet less than Windows and Linux though.



Did she have alot of programs that ran in the background? I have a mac mini 1.42Ghz with 256MB of RAM and i got really tired of the beach ball too. I upgraded to 1GB..and rarely even saw it.

Not really, just a web browser usually. I will push her to add another gig to make it better, but having to add a gig of RAM to make the beach ball go away is not the best solution. And it sucks that is the ONLY long term option (no XFCE like thing for OSX- aka lite version).



You can make the icons not bounce.

Then my sister would kill me. But point taken.

[supernaut]

OS X is awesome. That's what I use most of the time. I've been using GNU/Linux on and off since 1998 (Redhat 5.2) and although tons of progress has been made, OS X still blows it away unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, if/when GNU/Linux can match the OS X experience, I'll be the first to wipe my OS X partition and install Ubuntu PPC (I have had it on here before), but until then, if you want the most user-friendly, well-designed and well-integrated operating system, and are happy to put freedom on the backburner, I fully recommend OS X.

[Peturrr]

Im also thinking of buying a mac mini when it ships with intel processors.
Now I am still dual booting Windows XP and Kubuntu.

The main reason for considering switching desktops is the Eyecandy and human friendly GUI of OsX. I personally really dislike GNOME, but KDE is also not really pretty. Since using Composite in KDE it starts to become a little better, because of the EyeCandy.

I am really happy that the developpers of KDE 4 have acknowledged this need for Eye candy and desktopexperience so I am looking forward to this next release. I suggest to the topic starter to try out E17. This made me enjoy my ubuntu a lot more, since it is very pretty.

[phibxr]

If this were a Mac forum, someone would instantly send me an email saying that I could get some shareware prog that does virtual desktops. It would work forever, but start playing annoying messages after 30 days until I paid $20. Thats Macland.

http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/

Free, costless and even open source, right at your fingertips.

[zAo]

I'm also considering a mac mini x86 because Linux's X11 is just very slow (even on a GF 6600GT, widescreen). I also miss BreezeBrowser/iPhoto for RAW images.

[drizek]

my art teacher is selling a 400mhz powermac G4 for $125. i might get it if it is a dual core cpu. the price would be too high for a single 400mhz though. The only problem is that i gave waya my old crt when i bought my laptop.

[phibxr]

Agreed. That's a bit to high to pay for that machine. Do a search for used iMac 700MHz instead. Or save up a few more $ and get a mini.

[quietglow]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but it was actually a Mini which finally broke the dam for me: I sold mine and ended many years of being a Mac owner. The internal drive was so slow I think my G4 400 tower with a 7200 rpm drive was faster overall. It just barely drove my 23" cinema display, but couldnt do 3d. To top it off, if it was anywhere near 80 degrees(F) in the room it would frequently freeze from overheating. No thanks. Easily the worst of all the macs I've owned.

If I had $500-600 to spend on a mac, I'd get as much of a G4 tower as I could. If you check the vendors over at lowendmac.com, you'll easily find a ~600mhz machine for that kind of money.

[mips]

The mini is just low end hardware, cant expect much at that price. It is aimed at your average user that surfs the web, reads mail and does the odd bit of office like tasks etc. Apparently they worked better with more ram and upgrading the 4200rpm 2.5" drive to a 7200rpm one.

OSX is actually great. You can also use most if not all of the FreeBSD ports/packages on it and they are free, in fact more free than the Linux GPL license! You still have access to the CLI & you can also install X. If this does not make you happy then I don't know what would

I really would not mind one of those new intel based mac laptops & tower desktop (I don't like the integrated jobbies).

[drizek]

thats true, but you can get a pc with a ton more power for 500ish dollars.

all you pay for is the form factor and hte logo with the mac mini.

[BSDFreak]

thats true, but you can get a pc with a ton more power for 500ish dollars.

all you pay for is the form factor and hte logo with the mac mini.

The powerbook DOES have a droool factor even for a HW idiot like me...

I'm getting a 17" an yeah i guess there are some nice one out there, but i happen to like PPC and i love the powerbook.

[mips]

thats true, but you can get a pc with a ton more power for 500ish dollars.

all you pay for is the form factor and hte logo with the mac mini.

Correct. That should have read "The mini is just low end hardware, cant expect much at that price from Apple."

[drizek]

The powerbook DOES have a droool factor even for a HW idiot like me...

I'm getting a 17" an yeah i guess there are some nice one out there, but i happen to like PPC and i love the powerbook.

ive heard the 17"ers have bad lcds. never seen one myself or anything, but keep it in mind...

and while i would still take a dell, or an asus(check them out before you buy) over an apple, at least the powerbook form has some practical use. the mini may be small, but it needs an external power adapter and there is very little reason to buy one over a small tower or even a laptop.

[DigitalDuality]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but it was actually a Mini which finally broke the dam for me: I sold mine and ended many years of being a Mac owner. The internal drive was so slow I think my G4 400 tower with a 7200 rpm drive was faster overall. It just barely drove my 23" cinema display, but couldnt do 3d. To top it off, if it was anywhere near 80 degrees(F) in the room it would frequently freeze from overheating. No thanks. Easily the worst of all the macs I've owned.

If I had $500-600 to spend on a mac, I'd get as much of a G4 tower as I could. If you check the vendors over at lowendmac.com, you'll easily find a ~600mhz machine for that kind of money.
I've owned a mini since it came out and had zero problems.

[rplantz]

I'm another long-time Mac user. Bought my first one in March 1984, a month after they were introduced. I was about to buy a dual-processor, liquid-cooled G5 last summer. Then Apple made their announcement.

I started thinking about Linux. I had been using it in my teaching since 1999, but used my Macs for all my other work. I put an AMD64 box together and saved well over $2,000. (Good thing. The cat got sick soon after that. He's worth more than the Mac anyway. :-) )

I still use my Mac G4 (450 MHz, dual-processor) when I want things to be easy. For example, I've never bothered to configure my Ubuntu/AMD64 to send faxes. I don't do it very often, and it's so easy with the Mac.

Overall, I much prefer the AMD box. It's a lot more fun. I like open source. I like being able (even having) to tweak things. I'm now getting ready to turn it into a dual-boot machine -- Ubuntu and FreeBSD. (We have another box in the house for Windows.)

Bottom line: Mac OSX is easier for me when I need to get some work done; Linux is a lot more fun for me. I have managed to reach retirement age, so I have a lot more time for fun. Only wish I'd done it sooner. :-)

[Ptero-4]

I'm another Mac user. I use both OSX and xubuntu. I myself prefer the eMac G4 b/c of it's stylish all-in-one form factor and b/c it's PPC (I hate x86). Also I liked the Mac more b/c out of the two companies (Apple vs Dell/HP/etc) Apple is the one that actually pushes less toward propietary only sw, also their systems have a better degree of compatibility with Linux than Dells could ever have (I have seen x86 PC's which refuses "on your face" to even boot into Linux while popping the XP CD causes the thing to boot into it, OTOH I have yet to see a Mac which tries that hard to keep you from installing Linux on it).

[Sirin]

Wait till you can get an x86 mac legally and get it, so you can use windows/linux/freebsd/whatever you want along with it.

It won't work. The challenge here is not the chip, but the way that the operating systems boot. Most Linux versions use a boot loader called GRUB that doesn't support EFI at present, though Itanium versions of the operating system use a different one called Elilo that does.

[xequence]

It won't work. The challenge here is not the chip, but the way that the operating systems boot. Most Linux versions use a boot loader called GRUB that doesn't support EFI at present, though Itanium versions of the operating system use a different one called Elilo that does.

Im sure you could use whatever the PPC versions of linux use to dual boot on the x86 one.

[mstlyevil]

It won't work. The challenge here is not the chip, but the way that the operating systems boot. Most Linux versions use a boot loader called GRUB that doesn't support EFI at present, though Itanium versions of the operating system use a different one called Elilo that does.

Future versions of the kernel are going to start supporting EFI in the near future. Vista will also be a EFI operating system. New versions of the EFI chip are going to actually support the old bios operating systems through a translation software add on. In other words you will be able to dual boot Linux and Mac or even Vista in the near future.

[TechSonic]

Last time I used an iBook I had a bad encounter with its operation. When ever a critical operation failed, it would say "it's not my fault"...

>.>

[adamb10]

I've switched to OS X. It's simply a brilliant operating system. From the Finder to Spotlight. IMHO, it beats Linux hands down. Only downside being there is not alot of free software for OS X.

[Sirin]

IMO Linux is good, but I would certianly get OS X. It has UNIX, and also the commercial support that everyone needs. It's UNIX without the command line. \\:D/

[mips]

I've switched to OS X. It's simply a brilliant operating system. From the Finder to Spotlight. IMHO, it beats Linux hands down. Only downside being there is not alot of free software for OS X.

You should be able to install most BSD apps without any problems, just find out how to do it.

http://www.freebsd.org/ports/
http://www.bsdnews.org/01/darwinports.php

Do a bit of googling....

[mips]

IMO Linux is good, but I would certianly get OS X. It has UNIX, and also the commercial support that everyone needs. It's UNIX without the command line. \\:D/

But the command line is still there when you want it....

[Ptero-4]

I've switched to OS X. It's simply a brilliant operating system. From the Finder to Spotlight. IMHO, it beats Linux hands down. Only downside being there is not alot of free software for OS X.
Actually. The Tiger Finder is CRAP. The best Finder out there is the OS9 one (100% pure Nautilus-like goodness), and the 10.1/10.2 ones were a close 2nd. But the Public beta, 10.0 and now 10.3/10.4 ones are, well, the whole KDE is lighter than the Panther/Tiger Finder.

[quietglow]

Actually. The Tiger Finder is CRAP. The best Finder out there is the OS9 one (100% pure Nautilus-like goodness), and the 10.1/10.2 ones were a close 2nd. But the Public beta, 10.0 and now 10.3/10.4 ones are, well, the whole KDE is lighter than the Panther/Tiger Finder.

Amen. Everyone should spend a little time with the OS9 finder to see the finder done right.