9.04 - create a Win98SE boot disk from exe image

[anewguy]

I hate to ask this, but please bear with me. I sold one of my old computers yesterday - with Linux installed of course. The person who bought it called today and doesn't "get" it. I have an old Win98SE cd here I offered to them, but I know it needs a boot diskette which I no longer have. Searching the net, I have found many .exe self-extracting files which load an image to the diskette for Win98SE. When I try to open them by default (wine) it comes up with an error saying that the drive doesn't support the current format. When I look in archive manager I see the .IMA file, but when I try to extract it I get:

warning [/home/dave/Desktop/WIN98SE.exe]: 105520 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile
(attempting to process anyway)
file #1: bad zipfile offset (local header sig): 211040
(attempting to re-compensate)
file #1: bad zipfile offset (local header sig): 211040

and of course it doesn't extract. I've tried this on many of the Win98SE boot disk images I have found on the net with the same result. I can only assume the extra 105520 bytes are the actual program that burns the image.

So, does any one know of a way I can extract one of these images and then burn it to diskette in Ubuntu?

Thanks in advance!

dave :)

[lisati]

There is a way of making a boot floppy from within Windows 98SE if you have a working copy somewhere....


EDIT: If you have a functioning copy of Win98SE you can go to Settings->Control Panel->Add/Remove Software. Then click on the "Startup disk" option. Failing that, and the machine you want to use it with can boot from CD, the Win98SE disk is bootable.

[Terry of Astoria]

I thought most of the Windows 98 CDs were bootable. Maybe your friend's computer is capable of booting the CD drive. But assuming you're correct and the CD is not bootable,
If you copy (using a live CD Linux) all the install files to the (performatted FAT32, again use a live CD with gparted or cfdisk) C: drive before starting, you won't need the CD drivers on the floppy.
Then any DOS boot floppy might work to get into the Windows 98 install. You would only have to change to the directory containing the install files, and type "setup"

[anewguy]

Well, the biggest problem is that I don't have Windows running any where - I'm all Linux. I knew I had an old Win98SE cd lying around so that's why I offered it to her. The only problem is trying to create the boot disk, with mscdex, the correct autoexec.bat, etc, loaded so that the PC will boot up with CD support, I can run fdisk (the DOS version) to format the drive, then change to the CD and run setup. And there lies my problem.

Thanks!
Dave :)

EDIT: forgot to mention: No, not all Win98SE CD's are bootable - most required a diskette as they assumed in those days you needed to boot to DOS first so you could (usually via autoexec) set up the ramdisk, load in the oak cdrom drivers, run mscdex to actually be able to access the cd rom, then run setup.

[chrisod]

Honestly, I consider it borderline immoral to knowingly put anybody on Windows 98. It hasn't been supported for years, and if god fobid she connects to the Internet with it she'll probably be zombied almost immediately.

Really, a modern Linux distro is more likely to be usable than Windows 98. I can appreciate that you are trying to help her, but I don't think giving her Windows 98 helps anything!

[anewguy]

I understand perfectly - not to mention she's going to get hit up for updates to IE in order to use the web, and most of the udpates won't work in 98.

Here's the problem: she won't work with Linux, she wants Windows, all I've got access to is an old 98SE cd. She wants this for her kids. I have no choice in the matter unless she goes out and buys a copy of XP to install on it, which I get the impression she won't do. Keep in mind - this is not a friend - just someone who replied to my ad for an old PC for sale.

Dave :)

[ascendotuum]

I believe all you really need on the floppy to make it bootable would be msdos.sys, command.com, and boot.ini

If you can get those files from somewhere just throw them on a disk and see if it's bootable. If that works, then you can go and add mscdex, autoexec.bat and the other stuff and go from there.

[lisati]

I understand perfectly - not to mention she's going to get hit up for updates to IE in order to use the web, and most of the udpates won't work in 98.

Here's the problem: she won't work with Linux, she wants Windows, all I've got access to is an old 98SE cd. She wants this for her kids. I have no choice in the matter unless she goes out and buys a copy of XP to install on it, which I get the impression she won't do. Keep in mind - this is not a friend - just someone who replied to my ad for an old PC for sale.

Dave :)

there are still one or two updates for Win98 around but I don't know how long they'll be around: I took my win98 machine to Windows Update about a month ago, and found something like 30 or 40. Most were irrelevant to my machine.

[Jerry N]

Win2000 with SP4 would be a better choice than Win98Se if you can pick up a copy on e-bay for a good price (ZoneAlarm and an antivirus program should also be installed) but if the computer won't boot from a CD, you still have the same boot disk problem. Since you already have a presumably legitimate Win98 disk, you can use an upgrade version of Win2000. I find that Win2000 works quite well on old, ie 300-400mhz cpu and 256 mg ram computers, far better than any version of Ubuntu I have tried. SP4 and the associated roll-up for Win2000 are still available.

Jerry

Edit: There were other replies while I was typing this. If she won't buy XP then she won't buy Win2000 so just forget the stuff I said above :)

[Jerry N]

Have you looked at bootdisk.com?

Jerry

[lisati]

(Thinks) I'm messing around with a Win98 machine at the moment, updating IE on it..... possibilities?

(Thinks again)Potential legal hassles?

[anewguy]

No, I'm not going to PURCHASE anything for something I SOLD to someone else - I'm just trying to help them out, they are not a friend or anything, just someone who bought one of my old computers.

Yes, I've gone to bootdisk.com. It's one of the many places that I have found the same exact win98 boot disk image. The problem is that it is a self-extracting .exe and when it runs (via wine) it asks for a floppy in the drive, but when it goes to access it (immediately) it says "The current image format is not supported by the disk drive".

I am tempted to believe it has something to do with how the floppy drive is recognized by wine, but I don't know what.

Please keep the following in mind:

- I'm only doing this as a favor to a stranger who bought one of my old PC's

- There is no need for me to spend any money -> it's someone else's computer

- The self-running files I have gotten from the various download places on the net all seem to be the same, and they all get the errors mentioned.

- What I need: a DOS boot disk with cdrom support, fdisk, etc., on it


Thanks
Dave :)

[Terry of Astoria]

I emphatically agree with chrisod that Windows 98's days are over on the Internet pretty much. I personally used 98 for many years, without one virus or trojan (that I knew of;)but nowadays you can't even use an up-to-date Firefox, so fagettaboutit.

Now if the computer is to be used for non-internet purposes, maybe it is acceptable. There are a lot of games and other software for 98 that requires no Internet to play. Aside from the moral issue of the machine's potential vulnerability to crackers and viruses, and more to the point, about installing it from Linux, you could do it but I don't think it would be fun. I would try formatting the C: drive FAT32, and marking the partition bootable (use gparted or cfdisk) then copying the Windows install files (the "Win98" folder) from the 98 disc to a folder on the hard drive. Also copy all files from the dos floppy (you said you could see the files) There may be some tinkering necessary, such as editing your boot.ini file, or more, but I think you can make a bootable hard drive to boot to DOS. Then simply "cd" to the folder containing the Windows install files and type setup to start the install into the same partition you are running it from. One advantage of this method is that Windows will never bug the user to "insert the disc labeled "Windows 98" etc.etc.

But that seems like about 9 hrs. of work for the world's crappiest OS.

Far better to advise your client to install a decent OS or negotiate another resolution to the problem. I realize the pressure that can be on in a situation like this, but by being honest with your customer and yourself, you will succeed.

[anewguy]

(Thinks) I'm messing around with a Win98 machine at the moment, updating IE on it..... possibilities?

(Thinks again)Potential legal hassles?

Do you have the boot diskette needed to load Win98 from CD? If so, I think we can work out a way to copy it I might be able to use. Shouldn't be any legal problems - the diskette is just sort of a "generic" diskette, the part the MS would worry about (if they even pay any attention to an OS they don't even support anymore) would be what's on the actual CD (and I already have the CD - just need the diskette).

Since it's been a long time since I've been in Windows, it might take some outside help to figure out how to make an image of the diskette so that I can use some utility (I assume there is one?) to write an image file to a floppy in Ubuntu.

So, anyone with ideas?

Thanks for your offer - let's see what we might be able to figure out!

Dave :)

[anewguy]

I emphatically agree with chrisod that Windows 98's days are over on the Internet pretty much. I personally used 98 for many years, without one virus or trojan (that I knew of;)but nowadays you can't even use an up-to-date Firefox, so fagettaboutit.

Now if the computer is to be used for non-internet purposes, maybe it is acceptable. There are a lot of games and other software for 98 that requires no Internet to play. Aside from the moral issue of the machine's potential vulnerability to crackers and viruses, and more to the point, about installing it from Linux, you could do it but I don't think it would be fun. I would try formatting the C: drive FAT32, and marking the partition bootable (use gparted or cfdisk) then copying the Windows install files (the "Win98" folder) from the 98 disc to a folder on the hard drive. Also copy all files from the dos floppy (you said you could see the files) There may be some tinkering necessary, such as editing your boot.ini file, or more, but I think you can make a bootable hard drive to boot to DOS. Then simply "cd" to the folder containing the Windows install files and type setup to start the install into the same partition you are running it from. One advantage of this method is that Windows will never bug the user to "insert the disc labeled "Windows 98" etc.etc.

But that seems like about 9 hrs. of work for the world's crappiest OS.

Far better to advise your client to install a decent OS or negotiate another resolution to the problem. I realize the pressure that can be on in a situation like this, but by being honest with your customer and yourself, you will succeed.

Thanks for the suggestion, but keep in mind I'm just a private individual who advertised a used computer for sale in the paper and someone I don't know bought it. I showed them it had Linux on it when they bought it, so I'm going beyond any thing I should need to do to begin with. I'm not buying another OS just so I can give it to someone who paid $25 for a PIII-500 with monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse.

Dave :)

[lkraemer]

Dave,
You say you want a Win98SE Boot disk, but aren't you relly wanting
a copy of a Windows 98SE Setup Floppy that boots and passes control
to the CDR for installing?

WOW, going back to 98SE is a BIG mistake over Linux. Either way,
they are going to be learning from scratch, and Linux is the was to go
over 98SE.

What about trying to get them to run PCLinuxOS 2009.1 (KDE Desktop)
on that machine. It's look is as close to Windows as you can find,
and it works good. Most things are set up with two or three mouse
clicks. You might try selling them on PCLinuxOS over 98SE.

www.bootdisk.com might be a good source for you to try. Also you might
want to try installing DosBox, and see if that will work for making the
Setup Floppy versus Wine, assuming you have a machine that still has a functional floppy Drive.

Other than that, the only way I know to get that Setup Floppy is to
Image it with some software like Teledisk or Diskfactory32 (Windows
based software) . They will duplicate the image, and I have access to both.

lkraemer

[lisati]

Do you have the boot diskette needed to load Win98 from CD? If so, I think we can work out a way to copy it I might be able to use. Shouldn't be any legal problems - the diskette is just sort of a "generic" diskette, the part the MS would worry about (if they even pay any attention to an OS they don't even support anymore) would be what's on the actual CD (and I already have the CD - just need the diskette).

Since it's been a long time since I've been in Windows, it might take some outside help to figure out how to make an image of the diskette so that I can use some utility (I assume there is one?) to write an image file to a floppy in Ubuntu.

So, anyone with ideas?

Thanks for your offer - let's see what we might be able to figure out!

Dave :)
Sorry about the delay replyijng. Yes. I have a boot floppy made from a fresh install of Win98SE, sitting in a USB floppy drive waiting for me to figure out the proper options for DD (or whatever) to get it to a suitable file.....
I'm a little over my head with the Linux commands needed here and would welcome suggestions: the floppy drive on my machine is showing /dev/disk, the dir command lists the files. When I do
dd if=/dev/disk of=win98.img this is what I get:
dd: reading `/media/disk': Is a directory
0+0 records in
0+0 records out
0 bytes (0 B) copied, 0.000487492 s, 0.0 kB/s

[lisati]

Oh I just remembered: the Smart Boot Manager (http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/about.html) will happily boot the Win98 CD on my old machine.....

[lkraemer]

Copying an entire floppy (which is different than just copying the files on the floppy) is done with the dd command to and from the floppy device. On most systems this is /dev/fd0, though there may be local variations.

The floppies copied with this procedure are indistinguishable from the originals, including their "bootable" status.

insert the source floppy
$ dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k

insert the target floppy
$ dd of=/dev/fd0 if=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k

$ rm /tmp/floppy.copy

The dd command uses some curious parameters, but they were modelled after similar commands on an IBM mainframe. These parameters include:

if= specify the input file
of= specify the output file
bs= specify the blocksize (9k is optimal for floppies)

Note that the first step stores the contents of the floppy in the file /tmp/floppy.copy, and this file should be removed when it's no longer needed. But it can be reused to make multiple copies of a floppy (obviously, the floppy disks need to be changed each time).

$ dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k # read source floppy

$ dd of=/dev/fd0 if=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k # write copy #1
$ dd of=/dev/fd0 if=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k # write copy #2
$ dd of=/dev/fd0 if=/tmp/floppy.copy bs=9k # write copy #3
...
$ rm /tmp/floppy.copy

lkraemer

[theozzlives]

I've installed hundreds of copies of Win 98 and the CD is bootable.

[Shpongle]

why not just install kubuntu , from what iv heard & read its suppose to be more windows "like" , in terms of looks or alternatively you could sit down and explain to her the benifit of running linux, and unless she has any windows specific tasks you could show her the alternatives, i know you are goin out of your way , but its just coz shes not used to linux!,

and chances are if you do install windows shell come back after its gets infected!!!, it always does!, it'll cause you more hassle in the long run to put windows on it, alternatively you could always stumble upon xp somewhere;)

[sailthesea]

Just to ask the stupid unasked question
Have you put Win 98 CD in the offending machine and pressed F11 or whatever to boot from CD?
It just doesn't seem to have come up in the thread and I'm sure that will boot from CD You may just have to change the boot script in BIOS

[lisati]

Sorry, no joy with the DD command, nothing's getting copied.....I might need to dig around the forums a bit for an answer, I vaguely recall it coming up once before.

[Terry of Astoria]

So you tried something like:

sudo dd if=/home/me/Desktop/floppy/boot98sc.bin of=/dev/fd0
What was the result?

[Terry of Astoria]

Sorry, you would have had to create the image first, like:

sudo dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/home/me/Desktop/floppy/boot98sc.bin

[hysteresis]

http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso

That will make a windows startup cd.

[anewguy]

I've installed hundreds of copies of Win 98 and the CD is bootable.
I'd gladly send you mine if you want a sample of the thousands that aren't. The original Win98SE came as a CD with a floppy - the CD in that instance (which happens to be mine) is NOT bootable. Later releases of Win98SE did come with a bootable CD - I've worked with those as well. Please, it's been a while since I worked with Windows, so there are somethings I forget, but being ex-tech support I do know if a CD is bootable or not, I do know how to set the BIOS to boot from the CD, I do know how bad a choice Win98SE is. What you need to understand is this is a computer I sold for $25 to a perfect stranger. There is no plus in it for me to try to teach someone I don't know about Linux. There is only negatives in me BUYING a copy of something just to give it to them. Windows is NOT installed on the machine, so unless the boot option given is stand-alone, gives access to the CD and is in DOS so the exe can be run to start the installation, the process is useless to me. I also understand between the installation floppy and the boot disk. Yes, it's the installation disk I want, but I'd need to change autoexec so I can format the drive first. A boot floppy would do, since I can get copies of command.com, attr, himem, fdisk, the oak cd driver and mscdex.

Please - it's was a $25 sale - they can't expect that much.

Terry of Astoria: Thanks for the copy command to create an image file of the diskette. I'm going to try to have lisati try that command and then email it to me.

lisati: Please follow the last dd command given by Terry of Astoria to create the IMAGE of the diskette, then attach the file to an email to me. I will PM you with my email address.

Thanks!
Dave :)

[anewguy]

http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso

That will make a windows startup cd.

Thanks! I went to the software directory and then the win98 sub directory and found the diskette image - am burning a diskette with it right now.

No other help needed now!

Thanks everyone!!

dave :)

[lisati]

Thanks! I went to the software directory and then the win98 sub directory and found the diskette image - am burning a diskette with it right now.

No other help needed now!

Thanks everyone!!

dave :)

That's good. I finally managed to create an .IMG file using some "trialware" on Win98 (eek!) will keep the file around for a little bit.....


To the others: I'm using a USB device for a floppy drive, haven't got much need for it since I've setup my home network. It's currently showing as /media/fd0


<distraction>Mrs Lisati just fetched the mail, a wet cheque arrived (it's been raining) from an online survey web site. Not much but every bit helps</distraction>

[cariboo]

Nero-Linux has the files included to create a bootable cd, you can download a trial version that will allow you to create what you want. If you are going to give the person who bought your computer the Wi98SE CD, just create a new bootable project and include the Win98 files on the CD and give her both..

Somewhere out in my shop I have a cd I created as an experiment that has Win95, Win98SE and WinMe plus a bunch of utilities that I used to use all the time on it. Once booted up, copy the files from the directory of the install you are doing to the hard driove and install from there.

[anewguy]

YEARS ago I created a bootable Win98 install CD from the non-bootable one that came in my Windows 98SE package from Microsoft. But here's the deal:

I've made the diskette (just downloaded an image as mentioned in previous post and dd'd it to /dev/fd0 -> boots just like I want). It boots, I can get to the Windows 98 CD, I have fdisk available. That's all I need. I'm going beyond what the seller of a $25 computer should have to do to begin with.

Consider this closed. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Dave :)

[Didius Falco]

Wait!! What else do you have for sale?? Never mind the product, I just want the service!! ;)

Regards,

Didius

[Terry of Astoria]

Thanks to everyone . . .

[anewguy]

Wait!! What else do you have for sale?? Never mind the product, I just want the service!! ;)

Regards,

Didius

I've got this bridge........


Dave :)