When buying a new computer, does a Windows licence matter to you?

[Ozor Mox]

I've been looking for a new Ubuntu laptop recently, but the choice is so minimal that it is easy to consider just buying a Windows machine and wiping it to get the hardware that I want. Would you commit to only buying Ubuntu or Linux on a computer if you use it, or does it not bother you?

[saulgoode]

If necessary, I would buy the computer I wanted then seek a refund for Windows if it was installed. I'd prefer to make my purchase from an outfit which provided GNU machines which fit my needs.

[binbash]

If it is Desktop, i will build it myself.And i only buy notebooks which come with linux option.I do not want to give extra xx$ for a damn prouct key.

[ukripper]

just buy good cheap laptop with windows lic. and get rid of win to put ubuntu on it.

[benj1]

i think you need an extra option in your poll.
personally i find the difference in price marginal between ubuntu and windows computers, also windows is useful if you have problems in your ubuntu install, ie the internet doesn't work, so all things being equal i would probably get a windows pc just in case, although i havent actually used windows on this laptop yet.

[TyTiger]

Machines with windows pre-installed on tend to be more expensive, thus I'd prefer not to. But i build my PC from scratch I've never bought one from a manufacturer.
Windows refund day (http://marc.merlins.org/linux/refundday/) was epic, should really do it again ;)

[Mehall]

Machines with windows pre-installed on tend to be more expensive, thus I'd prefer not to. But i build my PC from scratch I've never bought one from a manufacturer.

I call BS.

Due to OEMs shipping trialware, etc on computers, then Linux machines generally cost more than an equal-spec windows machine (look at Dell, just as one example)

[mamamia88]

yeah windows machines tend to cost maybe $50 more than a non-windows machine and when you are already spending hundreds of dollars it doesn't make much difference in the end. now i would have a problem buying a machine with vista because thats like endorsing a product i don't like. but if it's windows 7 then i totally would do it

[subdivision]

I've never bought a preassembled (desktop) computer in my life. When I bought my laptop it already came with Linux on it, but that isn't WHY I bought it. I guess I could argue that the Windows license is sort of important to me since I'll be purposely buying my wife a laptop with Windows on it.

[Ozor Mox]

I've never bought a preassembled (desktop) computer in my life. When I bought my laptop it already came with Linux on it, but that isn't WHY I bought it.

Yeah, for a desktop it's easy. You can build your own and custom select all of the parts, or buy one without an operating system like I did. Everything worked perfectly first time for me, and if anything hadn't worked, swapping the hardware would have been quite easy. Plus, there's no wireless or bluetooth or laptoppy things like that to worry about.

The trouble comes when looking for a laptop. Getting a no OS one left me with several hardware problems, and it's near enough impossible to find the exact specs I want when just considering the limited choice of laptops with Ubuntu or another Linux on. It's very annoying :(

[maybeway36]

Since I usually only use old computers, it doesn't matter all that much to me. :)

[LowSky]

Since I could get the Netbook I wanted with out Windows, I paid the price for Windows, and it wont be the last time. Windows might be a dirty word around here but paying to get what I want/need I will pay the "tax" which is often around hte same price. I mean just look at the cost of Linux PC on Dell and System76, both cost much more than the same spec machine with windows..

[monsterstack]

I really think people need to take a stand with this. If you don't want a Windows computer, don't buy one. It's as simple as that. If manufacturers don't have a compelling reason to stock Linux computers then they won't. Every time you waste money on a Windows licence it helps perpetuate the myth that Linux is hobbyist OS that really isn't very useful. Have some integrity people, sheesh.

[aysiu]

It all depends on how much you care about long-term freedom, as opposed to short-term freedom.

In the short-term, buying a Windows-preinstalled computer looks like freedom because you have more hardware choices now.

In the long-term, that just sends the message to OEMs that they're wasting their time by selling Linux preinstalled, so there will be fewer Linux choices in the future.

If long-term freedom matters to you, join my movement to buy Linux preinstalled (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1148932).

[skymera]

I'd buy any PC and get a refund on the Windows license.

That's like £60 :D

[phrostbyte]

I prefer to avoid paying for Windows licenses, because that funds an entity that wants to destroy the OS I like to use. :D

[marco123]

Machines with windows pre-installed on tend to be more expensive, thus I'd prefer not to. But i build my PC from scratch I've never bought one from a manufacturer.
Windows refund day (http://marc.merlins.org/linux/refundday/) was epic, should really do it again ;)

That's cool, haven't seen it before. Next time they should take vast amounts of Composition 4 with them.;)

Unfortunately, when I bought my PC it was actually cheaper to get a Windows Vista based one, wipe it, and put Ubuntu on it so it would work. I certainly didn't go near the license, just popped in the Ubuntu CD and was up and running faster than if I'd tried to boot into Windows and remove all the junk that was installed.

So basically because it suited my needs, and I got good hardware at a good price, the fact Windows used to be on it doesn't bother me.

Cheers, Marco.

[Orlsend]

I always order the ones with WinXp, because afterwards if I need to Virtualbox I have a WinXp license to do so.

[aysiu]

I always order the ones with WinXp, because afterwards if I need to Virtualbox I have a WinXp license to do so.
That's a different case, though. If you actually plan to use Windows, you should buy it (same goes for a dual-boot).

[wsonar]

I'd rather see my money go to an open source company like system 76

the hardware quality has really gone down with the big boy's espessially DELL

I'd be afraid the MB would go out a week after the warranty

They don't make em like they used to

[monsterstack]

I always order the ones with WinXp, because afterwards if I need to Virtualbox I have a WinXp license to do so.

Where on earth can you buy a computer with XP preinstalled?

[aysiu]

Where on earth can you buy a computer with XP preinstalled?
Netbooks.

[WatchingThePain]

I've been looking for a new Ubuntu laptop recently, but the choice is so minimal that it is easy to consider just buying a Windows machine and wiping it to get the hardware that I want. Would you commit to only buying Ubuntu or Linux on a computer if you use it, or does it not bother you?

The trouble with that is that you are paying for Windows then removing it.
I am lucky in that I build my Desktops and never use lappys.
I remember all the crap software that used to come with new Windows machines.
Maybe someone here can suggest a link for good laptops with Ubuntu already installed or without an OS.

[handy]

I think that the OP's question is too tight.

Not many people buy a computer that has a Linux of any kind installed on it.

Primarily we have windows, Mac, & a growing variety of netbooks & Del. Apart from serious server stuff from the likes of IBM & HP.

Personally, these days, if it isn't an Apple product then I built it myself, & under such circumstances windows is not in the frame of reference.

[baseface]

i have it shipped with no os. then freebsd comes and bones down with it.

[mamamia88]

Dell lets you customize your computer then they build it and ship it to you. is it possible to tell them not to install an os on it? or get one that's not in the ubuntu section with ubuntu on it instead?

[Rackstar]

I get my laptop from a local dealer who uses a local brand. I got 150 euros discount, if I'm not mistaking.

[Firestem4]

If I am going to purchase a computer to run windows on. I don't care much obviously.

However if im going to slap linux on it. I would prefer to buy a computer without Windows (regardless of what OS is on there, or if there is any.)

The problem is, for example in netbooks. The reason the Windows netbooks are so popular is because they're the better of the two (Linux config vs Windows)...Why buy an ASUS eeE PC with an 8gb SSD for 30 dollars more, and linux preinstalled. Or a Windows preinstalled for 30 dollars less and a 160gb hard drive.

Now, next time I buy a computer i'm going to see if I can get it sold to me without windows direct from the manufacturer..

[Paul41]

I bought a System76 and have been very happy with it. Going with Linux preintalled also lets you know for sure that everything is going to work.

[hessiess]

Build from components and install Linux.

[drawkcab]

Build from components and install Linux.

Same here. And when I order laptops I order custom laptops sans windows. Most of the time I can get exactly what I want without windows.

[aysiu]

I think these poll options are rather limited in phrasing. Just because someone likes to support by buying Linux preinstalled doesn't mean she actually will buy Linux preinstalled.

And just because someone buys Windows preinstalled doesn't mean she's happy to buy that Windows license.

I'm sure a lot of Linux users buy Windows preinstalled because it's on the hardware configuration they want (and Linux isn't). They're not happy about the license, and they would like to buy Linux preinstalled, but it wasn't there for them.

I've been looking pretty seriously at a new netbook recently. The absolute best I could find was the Asus Eee PC 1000HE. And that comes with Windows. If I were one of the people I talked about in the above paragraph, then I would buy the 1000HE and would be buying a Windows license. I wouldn't be happy about it or like it, but I would do it.

I'm not like that, though. I won't be buying a netbook with Windows preinstalled, even though I know the options for Linux netbooks are slimming considerably...

[bashveank]

I really don't care. Whatever I install on my computers, it's not gonna be exactly what the OEM offers.

[mamamia88]

i think they should at least offer you a clean install of windows rather than one filled up with junk. and they don't even give you install disks anymore

[Ozor Mox]

I think these poll options are rather limited in phrasing. Just because someone likes to support by buying Linux preinstalled doesn't mean she actually will buy Linux preinstalled.

And just because someone buys Windows preinstalled doesn't mean she's happy to buy that Windows license.

I'm sure a lot of Linux users buy Windows preinstalled because it's on the hardware configuration they want (and Linux isn't). They're not happy about the license, and they would like to buy Linux preinstalled, but it wasn't there for them.

I've been looking pretty seriously at a new netbook recently. The absolute best I could find was the Asus Eee PC 1000HE. And that comes with Windows. If I were one of the people I talked about in the above paragraph, then I would buy the 1000HE and would be buying a Windows license. I wouldn't be happy about it or like it, but I would do it.

I'm not like that, though. I won't be buying a netbook with Windows preinstalled, even though I know the options for Linux netbooks are slimming considerably...

I think you are reading too much in to the exact wording of the options. Both "I like to" and "I'm happy to" mean "I will/would do that" basically.

I am also considering the Asus eeePC 1000H and I have found ones with Linux pre-loaded. Unfortunately I can't find out which distribution as it just says Linux, which is rather unhelpful! I was put off a bit when a friend told me that it is not possible to change the OS because it does not run from the hard drive, but I don't think he's right about that.

[aysiu]

I think you are reading too much in to the exact wording of the options. Both "I like to" and "I'm happy to" mean "I will/would do that" basically. No, they're not the same thing, and that's why I pointed out the difference.


I am also considering the Asus eeePC 1000H and I have found ones with Linux pre-loaded. Unfortunately I can't find out which distribution as it just says Linux, which is rather unhelpful! I was put off a bit when a friend told me that it is not possible to change the OS because it does not run from the hard drive, but I don't think he's right about that. The 1000HE has no Linux option. 1000H and 1000HE are not the same model.

[Ozor Mox]

No, they're not the same thing, and that's why I pointed out the difference.

I know, it is just a bit of colour in the language. I could just have easily written "I like/do not like this/that/the other", but that would be boring and non-controversial! ;)


The 1000HE has no Linux option. 1000H and 1000HE are not the same model.

Oh yeah. Well the 1000H looks nice as well.

As for your point earlier, I agree that we should try to send a message and vote with our wallets when it comes to buying a new laptop, but it can be really frustrating trying to find the computer you want that way. I'd even be happy to go for one without an OS again, but this time check all the hardware in detail. It's Microsoft's giant thumb of oppression over OEMs that causes us all this pain!

Incidentally, I pointed out that EfficientPC (http://www.efficientpc.co.uk) might be a good place to buy in the UK, and suddenly they only sell one laptop and it's really naff! And Dell's Ubuntu site (http://www.dell.co.uk/ubuntu) offers exactly no computers at the moment.

:mad: <-- Me

[aysiu]

As for your point earlier, I agree that we should try to send a message and vote with our wallets when it comes to buying a new laptop, but it can be really frustrating trying to find the computer you want that way. Believe me, I know. I've been trying to find a good Linux-preinstalled netbook.

[drawkcab]

I hear Dell is going to start offering their new mini models with a linux or windows option.

[aysiu]

I hear Dell is going to start offering their new mini models with a linux or windows option.
Yup. The 10v or whatever.

[Glucklich]

I agree with "aisyu" on this one. This poll is very limited.
Take my new laptop choice, for example. I searched for laptops without OS (including some with Linux pre-installed) and with Windows (since Mac, fails completely at the price aspect). I remember the cheapest laptop without OS I could find, was marked at €570. At a popular re-seller, I was able to find a new Acer at the original price of €549 (on other stores at €599) and with a series of discounts, bought it for €466, plus, paying 12 times without interests. It didn't had the Vista CD but an Acer version of it, which is fine by me. And it's a much better machine than the one without OS. So, there wasn't any difficult decision to make on this one.
I would gladly support Linux but being a free OS, it's not supposed to make machines more expensive. Or maybe, I just found stores that didn't act in good faith. It's cool to make a bit profit on this one but almost covering Windows license price? No way, no how.

[t0p]

When I buy a computer, it generally comes with a Windows OS. Not that I want the bloody thing, I scrape it off at the earliest convenience. But Microsoft still make money on my purchase. Unfortunately.

The only computer I've bought with Linux pre-installed is my EeePC. I've got a problem with the companies who sell machines loaded with Linux: for some reason the computers generally cost the same as a Windows machine, if not more. As (most) Linux distros are free (price-wise) I really think it's wrong that they're not the cheaper option. No matter which way you turn, someone's waiting to rip you off.

[Marlonsm]

I'm not looking to buy a computer now, but if I were, I wouldn't mind to get an Windows licence with it, to be honest, I'd even like to get one. I'd install Ubuntu as mais OS, but keep Windows in a VM, you never know when you're going to need it.

[khelben1979]

If it is Desktop, i will build it myself.And i only buy notebooks which come with linux option.I do not want to give extra xx$ for a damn prouct key.

I feel the same way in this, always.

[Sewje]

I think too much sellers are getting away with more money cos they don't allow you to buy the hardware without and OS pre-installed. I think this is bad practice.
You should be able to ask for a non-installed os and get the price off from the OS license.
The problem is the majority of people just accept this as standard and go with it anyway.
So anyone who wants to use Linux instead has to pay for something they don't want.

Thankfully there are some vendors that do allow you to purchase just the hardware. Just a shame they make it so expensive that it's barely worth it...

[HavocXphere]

I buy components.

The balance on those prebuilt things is usually all wrong. e.g. They put a quad into the crappiest mobo they can find and then advertise it as a Quad core sys with a gazzillion gigs on HDD space.

[Corelogik]

Im all about solutions. If I can find the parts/features I need at a price I can afford in a preinstalled setup, fine. If not, I will buy a computer with Windows on it, not that it will ever be booted.

[mikewhatever]

I'll not buy a computer with Windows, period. It's not about the price or buying Linux, but about retailers indirectly forcing customers to buy Windows licenses. I won't play that game. It's rather embarrassing to tell, but no PC vendor, not even Dell, sells Linux pre-installed in Israel. However, some offer PCs with no OS, and that's what I'll be getting when time comes.

[aysiu]

It's rather embarrassing to tell, but no PC vendor, not even Dell, sells Linux pre-installed in Israel. What about Affordy? They have offices in the US and in Israel:
http://shop.affordy.com/pl_product~af-lp-01-en1~3~0.htm

[mikewhatever]

What about Affordy? They have offices in the US and in Israel:
http://shop.affordy.com/pl_product~af-lp-01-en1~3~0.htm

I've never heard of them, thanks for the link.

[jml]

I will weigh in on this as well. If you have a need for Windows as well as Linux then by all means purchase a laptop with Windows pre-installed and dual boot with the Linux version of your choice. That is what I did when I started using Linux seriously. Just be warned that many laptops have hardware that is not Linux friendly. Be sure that the one you choose has Linux friendly hardware.

If you do not need Windows, then I agree with the others who suggested buying a computer from a vendor that sells hardware with Linux pre-installed. The last three computers I bought (two laptops and one Netbook,) I purchased from System 76. All of their computers come preloaded with Ubuntu. Hardware is great, and their after market support is top notch. Their knowledge base also includes information on adding Windows to their computers although they do not offer technical support for this. Their prices in my opinion are competitive. They spend a lot of time making sure that the hardware that they sell works completely with Ubuntu, function keys graphics cards, wireless, the works. And, no I do not work for them, I'm just a very satisfied customer.

Joe

[Bölvaður]

choice 3: no os

[jonathonblake]

I've never bought a new computer with an OS on it.

I've bought, or been given used systems. As a general rule, I wipe the drive and install Linux on them.

I have been looking at laptops, and netbooks. My preference is for either Linux, or BSD. However, there aren't many such systems. Adding insult to injury, the specs for the Linux boxes are such that one might as well be buying a 1999 vintage laptop.

Something I'll check on, prior to making any purchase of a Windows box, is how much of a refund I'll get by rejecting the license for the Microsoft operating system. (Some Window's licenses have a clause that require either Microsoft, or the manufacturer, or the distributor to refund the purchase price of the software to a consumer who rejects the license, and returns/destroys the software. Wondering if the license does have such a clause, and neither the distributor, nor manufacturer, nor Microsoft honour it, would I be able to get the Honourable Judge Kimball to rule against them.)

jonathon

[Groucho Marxist]

I've been looking for a new Ubuntu laptop recently, but the choice is so minimal that it is easy to consider just buying a Windows machine and wiping it to get the hardware that I want. Would you commit to only buying Ubuntu or Linux on a computer if you use it, or does it not bother you?

The only Windows OS that I enjoy using is XP due to Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete. Unfortunately, Micro$oft has ceased vending XP in order to force users to switch to the FAILtacular OS of Vista prior to other, newer over-hyped OS'.

On a different note, I am currently looking at purchasing my first laptop for the rest of my college career and digital shenanigans, and I'm more than willing to purchase from System 76 (http://www.system76.com/) in order to support the wonderful world of open source software.

[aysiu]

Something I'll check on, prior to making any purchase of a Windows box, is how much of a refund I'll get by rejecting the license for the Microsoft operating system. (Some Window's licenses have a clause that require either Microsoft, or the manufacturer, or the distributor to refund the purchase price of the software to a consumer who rejects the license, and returns/destroys the software. Wondering if the license does have such a clause, and neither the distributor, nor manufacturer, nor Microsoft honour it, would I be able to get the Honourable Judge Kimball to rule against them.) Good luck with that. I hope you have a lot of time on your hands (and a lot of patience).

[dragos240]

I really don't care, Even if 150 bucks is added because of the windows I won't use, eh, it happens, but I do ask for one that is blank, and does not have windows installed.

[Mister LinOx]

At some retailers online, they give you the option to purchase the OS with it or not. At buyxg, it gives you only Windows options, but then theres a "none" option. I'd rather do that and download the Live CD. Really though, if your're buying from buyxg, you're probably wanting to buy newer games and want windows.

[handy]

Something I'll check on, prior to making any purchase of a Windows box, is how much of a refund I'll get by rejecting the license for the Microsoft operating system. (Some Window's licenses have a clause that require either Microsoft, or the manufacturer, or the distributor to refund the purchase price of the software to a consumer who rejects the license, and returns/destroys the software. Wondering if the license does have such a clause, and neither the distributor, nor manufacturer, nor Microsoft honour it, would I be able to get the Honourable Judge Kimball to rule against them.)

jonathon

I've seen threads on in these forums over the years where someone has pursued the course of getting a refund on an unwanted MS OS license. The process always went on for a very long time, & from memory I don't recall any of them actually getting a refund. (though my memory is far from perfect)

I don't believe any of them took legal action though.

[Corelogik]

I would be very surprised if anyone ever got a refund for a MS license. Regardless of where they bought the computer from.

MS Windows, one of the few products in history that cannot be returned to place of purchase.

[Paul41]

Believe me, I know. I've been trying to find a good Linux-preinstalled netbook.

I don't know if it fits your needs but System76 makes a netbook now.

http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=92