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emacbri
May 12th, 2009, 08:01 AM
Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD UNIX. Isn't Ubuntu Linux based on UNIX? If so, then why buy a mac and pay a lot of money, when you could just get a cheap PC and put Ubuntu on it. You could get the legendary stability and other features of Mac OS X, without paying a fortune. I am a serious Mac fan, but if I can get somthing Just as good as Mac OS X for free, then I'll go for it. That's why I am running Ubuntu (But I miss the mac os x dock). What I am really trying to say here is: Why get a mac? Just get linux!:)

Keithhed
May 12th, 2009, 08:06 AM
:) you answered your own question. But i'm sure there are some uses for a Mac, just as there are uses for a Windows machine. All up to what the user plans on doing with it.

toupeiro
May 12th, 2009, 08:07 AM
This post has the potential to get extremely flammable. I imagine you will have a plethora of arguments for and against your statement. While I agree with you, Apple is very chic, and people will spend money on Mac for no other reason than that. I don't think Macs should go away, but I think their EULA around OSX is a bit ridiculous now that they basically push the same hardware DELL and HP do.. If they weren't so damn stingy, OSX may actually be on a lot more systems than it is currently. Because its not, linux will be on those systems, and Mac will never have market dominance in personal computing.

Chilli Bob
May 12th, 2009, 08:15 AM
3 reasons....

1. Because they produce the hardware and software, there should be no driver issues, or hardware compatibilities to worry about.

2. Some people have no interest in how their computer works, or care about modifying anything. They see their computer as an applience. Mac is perfect for them

3. They want to run proprietary programs that don't run on Linux. (Or don't want to deal with Wine. crossover, etc.) Some people actually want garage band.

That said, I would never buy a mac.

jespdj
May 12th, 2009, 09:00 AM
For the exact origins of Mac OS X, see the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X). It's partly based on FreeBSD and NetBSD.

Linux is not "based on" Unix, it is a Unix-like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix-like) operating system, written from scratch (it does not contain parts of the original implementation of Unix).

I see a lot of people with cool MacBooks and MacBook Pros, and ofcourse they look great. Mac OS X is no doubt a good OS, however I prefer Ubuntu because it is open source, I like the open source philosophy. I know you can run Ubuntu on a Mac too, but the Mac hardware is just too expensive compared to regular PC hardware. My Dell XPS M1530, which also has a nice design (although not as slick as a MacBook), cost me half of what a MacBook Pro with similar specs would cost!

ad_267
May 12th, 2009, 09:20 AM
By the way, you can get docks for Ubuntu like the OSX dock. Maybe you know that already and were saying the ones in Ubuntu weren't the same, but if not, some options are Gnome-Do's Docky and AWN (Avant Window Navigator).

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD UNIX. Isn't Ubuntu Linux based on UNIX? If so, then why buy a mac and pay a lot of money, when you could just get a cheap PC and put Ubuntu on it. You could get the legendary stability and other features of Mac OS X, without paying a fortune. I am a serious Mac fan, but if I can get somthing Just as good as Mac OS X for free, then I'll go for it. That's why I am running Ubuntu (But I miss the mac os x dock). What I am really trying to say here is: Why get a mac? Just get linux!:)

When are people going to get it? You buy an OS for the apps, nothing else. No apps, no take up. Hence the reason why linux on the desktop is still a hobbyist pursuit. /dons tin foil hat and flame retardant pants

As soon as Linux gets native, big name productivity apps, it will remain a niche. And as always, you pay a premium to run premium apps.

monsterstack
May 12th, 2009, 10:03 AM
Everyone knows how this one works.

Apple users have hipster haircuts and square-rimmed glasses.
Linux users have beards, bellies and ill-fitting t-shirts.
Windows users haven't hit puberty yet.

monsterstack
May 12th, 2009, 10:05 AM
When are people going to get it? You buy an OS for the apps, nothing else. No apps, no take up. Hence the reason why linux on the desktop is still a hobbyist pursuit. /dons tin foil hat and flame retardant pants

As soon as Linux gets native, big name productivity apps, it will remain a niche. And as always, you pay a premium to run premium apps.

I like your style kid. My favourite way of dissing Linux is to moan about the number of config files you're forced to manually edit to get to the desktop screen.

MysticalRiotCandy
May 12th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I like Mac OS X and Mac computers. What I don't like is the vertical monopoly Apple has set up for themselves by only allowing OS X to run on Macs. Then, they can overcharge their hardware by putting it in a shinier case and calling it the Apple experience. The extra cost in Apple hardware isn't from the 'superior parts' or 'better manufacturing'; it comes from anticompetition. I'd love to set up my parent's with a Mac computer, because it would be so much easier to maintain than a Windows box. However, I do not want to pay a surplus of $1,000 for a laptop that they will only be using to surf the Internet and play music.

And yes, this thread is pretty much asking for a flame war.

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM
It always amazes me that people bitch about the price of something..."OMG! Apples are much more expensive than the equivalent PC.." Yeah? Then don't fricking buy one then. No one is forcing you.

It's like when Nikon released the D3x with a suitabley hefty price tag, and all the camera spanners were screaming "its soo expensive, boo hoo." Well yeah, it is expensive, but it wasnt designed for camera spanners, it was designed and marketed for a niche group of pro photographers who do have $8,000 to drop on a camera.

Its a free market - you can choose to to buy or not to buy something. I don't know why people get so offended about the price of something. Overpriced? Don't pay it then, buy something else. Just stop crying about it.

/rant over

megamania
May 12th, 2009, 10:39 AM
I don't know why people get so offended about the price of something. Overpriced? Don't pay it then, buy something else. Just stop crying about it.

/rant over
But sometimes we all just talk because we feel like talking... it's only conversation. :-)

Haven't you ever said something like "3 euros for a coke? that's overpriced!"? I bet you did...

Mazza558
May 12th, 2009, 10:50 AM
Macs do have better apps out of the box on them though.

For a start you have photo booth. Then there's the iWork and iLife suites (note: decent video editor here). They get a search bar which doesn't look ugly/require memory-hogging, cpu-eating indexing (spotlight vs deskbar/tracker). There's a lot more that "just works" on Mac, due to Apple's license-paying.

It'd be wonderful to live on open media standards, but companies don't work that way - they'll jump at the first opportunity to make money. Once some file format gets a monopoly, there's not much we can do about it on the desktop - which is a real shame.

As someone mentioned above, it really is the apps that matter. Firefox is good but cross-platform so that's not a surprise. Openoffice is in a similar position but the future doesn't look good for it (based on the acquisition of Sun). Miro is pretty polished nowadays, because it's cross-platform. Banshee is a pretty capable music player, because it's funded by Novell. Compiz is going down the drain due to squabbles with GNOME 3's development team and KWin.

The best apps to be found on Linux, in general terms, are those which are cross-platform.

ibuclaw
May 12th, 2009, 10:52 AM
But sometimes we all just talk because we feel like talking... it's only conversation. :-)

Haven't you ever said something like "3 euros for a coke? that's overpriced!"? I bet you did...

The price is the least of your worries. ;)

When buying, you should always look for the best value for money, and ensure that you aren't being "ripped off" in any shape or form.

Last Christmas, a friend bought 150 in meat ... I was half expecting there to be live cows in the garden when I arrived. :P
Turned out to be a very good buy, we are still eating it to this day...

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 11:06 AM
But sometimes we all just talk because we feel like talking... it's only conversation. :-)

Haven't you ever said something like "3 euros for a coke? that's overpriced!"? I bet you did...

Price is only an issue if you cant afford something. And if you cant afford something, then buy something cheaper :)

And there is a disproportionate amount of whineage about Apple products on these forums.

MysticalRiotCandy
May 12th, 2009, 11:11 AM
It always amazes me that people bitch about the price of something..."OMG! Apples are much more expensive than the equivalent PC.." Yeah? Then don't fricking buy one then. No one is forcing you.

It's like when Nikon released the D3x with a suitabley hefty price tag, and all the camera spanners were screaming "its soo expensive, boo hoo." Well yeah, it is expensive, but it wasnt designed for camera spanners, it was designed and marketed for a niche group of pro photographers who do have $8,000 to drop on a camera.

Its a free market - you can choose to to buy or not to buy something. I don't know why people get so offended about the price of something. Overpriced? Don't pay it then, buy something else. Just stop crying about it.

/rant over
While I agree that it's basically my only argument against Mac computers, it's also the most true. Why are they more expensive? Because they can tote their user-friendly OS experience. And the only way to have this experience, to be different, is for you to buy a Macintosh. Like everyone else. On my campus, I could swear that at least 3/4ths of the people have a Macbook. The rest are all just snobbish Windows users who dislike Apple products for being too trendy. I am too poor for either OS. ;D

But like I said, I love Apple's designing. They create very fluid computers that are easy to maintain and pretty hard to mess up. So if I could get two laptops for my parents from them for less than $500, then I most certainly would.

It's far too true that the applications are what make the difference in OS; it's one of the main reasons I use Ubuntu instead of other distros, nowadays. There's more support for a more popular OS, and Linux is no exception to this rule.

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 11:19 AM
While I agree that it's basically my only argument against Mac computers, it's also the most true. Why are they more expensive? Because they can tote their user-friendly OS experience. And the only way to have this experience, to be different, is for you to buy a Macintosh. Like everyone else. On my campus, I could swear that at least 3/4ths of the people have a Macbook. The rest are all just snobbish Windows users who dislike Apple products for being too trendy. I am too poor for either OS. ;D

But like I said, I love Apple's designing. They create very fluid computers that are easy to maintain and pretty hard to mess up. So if I could get two laptops for my parents from them for less than $500, then I most certainly would.

It's far too true that the applications are what make the difference in OS; it's one of the main reasons I use Ubuntu instead of other distros, nowadays. There's more support for a more popular OS, and Linux is no exception to this rule.

As has been discussed to death on another forum, most of the cost of a laptop/system is the display. Certainly, in a laptop most of the hardware cost is the display. Apple displays are better than their equivalent PC's. Before we start another argument about this issue, which I don't want to do, I have found this to be the case, hence I own a Macbook. Certainly didnt buy one for "the apple experience". :)

3rdalbum
May 12th, 2009, 11:40 AM
I like your style kid. My favourite way of dissing Linux is to moan about the number of config files you're forced to manually edit to get to the desktop screen.

Exactly. There are not enough. I would have LOVED to edit a text file to get my new home server up and running... darn Ubuntu with its automation. Maybe I should become an Arch user?

Sublime Porte
May 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM
That's why I am running Ubuntu (But I miss the mac os x dock).

sudo apt-get install avant-window-navigator

or

sudo apt-get install cairo-dock

Both of these docks leave the Mac dock for dead. They have a ton more features and look better.

billgoldberg
May 12th, 2009, 12:30 PM
Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD UNIX. Isn't Ubuntu Linux based on UNIX? If so, then why buy a mac and pay a lot of money, when you could just get a cheap PC and put Ubuntu on it. You could get the legendary stability and other features of Mac OS X, without paying a fortune. I am a serious Mac fan, but if I can get somthing Just as good as Mac OS X for free, then I'll go for it. That's why I am running Ubuntu (But I miss the mac os x dock). What I am really trying to say here is: Why get a mac? Just get linux!:)

Mac OSX is Unix. Linux isn't nor is it based on Unix. It is Unix like however.

People don't get a Mac because it's Unix based. They get it because it they think both the hardware and the OS looks good. I don't think so, but that's besides the point.

They also get it for the software (video editing, ...), the ease of use (again I don't agree with that statement), to be cool, to give MS the finger, ...

Macs and GNU/Linux have two very different target audiences.

billgoldberg
May 12th, 2009, 12:31 PM
sudo apt-get install avant-window-navigator

or

sudo apt-get install cairo-dock

Both of these docks leave the Mac dock for dead. They have a ton more features and look better.

If you really want a dock, I suggest "Docky" (gnome-do). It's far better than cairo dock or awn.

3rdalbum
May 12th, 2009, 12:36 PM
Mac OSX is Unix.

Hmm... debatable. It doesn't really work much like Unix, except for some userspace CLI tools. If it really is Unix, it's the most deficient, crippled and insecure Unix today.

Let's not forget that great quote from Apple in 1980 (paraphrased):

"It would take more effort to add mouse support to Unix than it would to develop an entirely new mouse-driven operating system". (justifying the reason not to build LisaOS on Unix)

chucky chuckaluck
May 12th, 2009, 12:39 PM
to the OP, why have ubuntu? why not just slackware? they're both linux, right?

billgoldberg
May 12th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Hmm... debatable. It doesn't really work much like Unix, except for some userspace CLI tools. If it really is Unix, it's the most deficient, crippled and insecure Unix today.

Let's not forget that great quote from Apple in 1980 (paraphrased):

"It would take more effort to add mouse support to Unix than it would to develop an entirely new mouse-driven operating system". (justifying the reason not to build LisaOS on Unix)


Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads.
source:http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html

Sand & Mercury
May 12th, 2009, 01:14 PM
I love Mac OS X and if I had the money to buy a Mac, I'd be using it instead of Linux.

3 reasons:

1. Look & feel OOTB is unmatched
2. Awesome selection of software in the iLife suite not available anywhere else, plus great free third-party software (ie. Adium).
3. Finds a good mix between the software availability of Windows and the reliability of Linux/Unix. Security is important for me as a desktop user, yes, but not paramount and frankly, no system is bulletproof anyway.

gn2
May 12th, 2009, 01:18 PM
~ Apple displays are better than their equivalent PC's ~

That's what Apple want you to think.
It's just marketing hype, they use the same panels as other manufacturers and Mac hardware is built in the same factories and to the same standards as regular hardware from many other brands.

Sublime Porte
May 12th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Mac OSX is Unix

Actually none of the original Unix code is still in BSD, and therefore not in OSX either. Berkley did a complete rewrite of the code, however OSX does have official recognition as a Posix compliant system... then again so does Windows... so that doesn't say much.

Darwin is certainly a POSIX-like system, as is Linux.

3rdalbum
May 12th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads.

Lol, you're talking to somebody who has just tried to reset the password on somebody else's Macbook Air. She bought it second-hand and didn't know the password or username.

No problem, I'll just boot into single-user mode and find the username with "last". Except, the "last" command doesn't return anything on OS X. Lastb? Lastlog? Lastlog wasn't even on the system.

Maybe I could find the username through "/etc/passwd". Yes? No. It doesn't contain actual user account names on OS X.

Well okay than, I'll just add a new user... both "adduser" and "useradd" give 'command not found'. Do a web search for this OS X-specific command for adding users. Try it. It doesn't work until I start some sort of user account daemon that sounds more like a Javascript object than a system service.

At this point, I'm wondering how much Unix is actually sitting underneath. Sure, there's "fsck" and "mount" and "pico" and "grep", but otherwise the system is nothing like Linux and nothing like Unix. All the useful Unix commands are missing. All the useful Unix files are completely impotent and don't contain what you'd expect.

If Mac OS X 10.5 is Unix-certified, then the certification is a joke. OS X is sorta Unix-like... sorta. But I think you'd get more of a genuine Unix experience by running Syllable.

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 04:44 PM
That's what Apple want you to think.
It's just marketing hype, they use the same panels as other manufacturers and Mac hardware is built in the same factories and to the same standards as regular hardware from many other brands.

:)

Not again. Done this before in another thread. In my experience, my macbook display is far better than the PC equivalent from HP, Lenovo etc. Tried it, tested, done it. Also dual displayed monitor/macbook display and found the same thing - Apple displays are better. PC displays have a tendency to "green" especially on skintones, and its hard to correct. Buying an expensive display makes this problem go away. My point is, thats why macbooks cost more, they come with a decent display. I'm not the only one that has found this, other photo pro's I talk to say the same thing.

We must be all wrong, and are complete suckers :P

Icehuck
May 12th, 2009, 04:57 PM
Why buy a Mac?

At the end of the day I don't need to know how to edit xorg.conf. I don't even need to know what it is. The Mac just works and paying that extra cash for similar performance is well worth it.

Before anyone says, "well with Ubuntu I didn't have to do that." I just like to remind you about 9.04 and Intel.

bashveank
May 12th, 2009, 05:02 PM
That's what Apple want you to think.
It's just marketing hype, they use the same panels as other manufacturers and Mac hardware is built in the same factories and to the same standards as regular hardware from many other brands.

Alex Lindsey, founder of the PIxel Corps, computer animator for about 20 years, disagrees with you http://www.castmedium.com/2009/04/14/macbreak-weekly-136-eula-schmeula/

And to answer the OP: I buy Macs because I like having an OS that works properly, I like the first party apps, I like the third party apps, and I like/need some of the pro apps.

Marlonsm
May 12th, 2009, 06:01 PM
IMO, in the end-user point of view, Linux is about the same as a Mac, the only 2 differences are: Linux is free, Mac has the "snob" factor.



That's what Apple want you to think.
It's just marketing hype, they use the same panels as other manufacturers and Mac hardware is built in the same factories and to the same standards as regular hardware from many other brands.

Right. I've read somewhere that who actually makes the MacBook is Acer.

drawkcab
May 12th, 2009, 07:01 PM
IMO, in the end-user point of view, Linux is about the same as a Mac, the only 2 differences are: Linux is free, Mac has the "snob" factor.



l
Right. I've read somewhere that who actually makes the MacBook is Acer.

I thought Asus made them for a while when they first paired up with intel.

Sand & Mercury
May 12th, 2009, 07:05 PM
IMO, in the end-user point of view, Linux is about the same as a Mac, the only 2 differences are: Linux is free, Mac has the "snob" factor.
I think every userbase for every operating system has a snob factor.

Linux definitely does.

Patrick-Ruff
May 12th, 2009, 07:12 PM
I can tell you this, from my objective point of view in computing, I've been judging operating systems for the past 3 years.

in the end, OSX won-out for me. Here's why:

I'm extremely stingy on how perfect my operating system is, it needs to seem to all go together, naturally, and smoothly.

with linux, I always experienced a shakey, patched together, point of an operating system. with mac os x, it's entirely streamlined and everything seems to work together.

though I may not demand some of the things that others do of their computers, I do consider myself above an average user looking merely for 'looks'. there are many innovative things about mac os x, that linux has a long way to go for.

and I am judging this based merely upon operating system, as I do not own a apple computer. I am running a hacked version of the os and it runs smoother than linux, faster than windows, and barely crashes ever. if I had a real mac, I could have the experience even better.

but regardless, this is just my subjective experience with these os's as of yet. I don't plan on being swayed as there's nothing any of you could say to convince me linux is better for me. my attitude towards operating systems matches up quite nicely with mac os x. and I believe that is why most people decide to use it, not because of it being supposedly 'cool' or some kind of 'fad'.

it's truly a useful and awesome operating system.

Marlonsm
May 12th, 2009, 07:34 PM
I think every userbase for every operating system has a snob factor.

Linux definitely does.

But when most people see you using Linux, they would call you a geek. But if they saw you using OSX, they won't call you a geek.

perpetualcacophany
May 12th, 2009, 08:08 PM
I would say that OS X is perfect for those who purely use their computer as an appliance and not as a hobby as many Linux users do. The EULA is very restrictive, but that doesn't matter to most people. The reason they set the "non-Apple hardware" restrictions is to make sure that people don't get a machince which OS X wasn't designed for and then have a bad experience. That is the good part of Apple: they may control the hardware and software tightly, but in turn that makes it rock solid for the average user. Hardware control is what has allowed Apple to have its image that it has gained lately.


EDIT: Also, Apple makes the absolute best DAW in the world right now. Logic Pro 8.

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 08:17 PM
I thnk the major problem with all this OS argument, is that people tend to massively generalise about the end user. Not all Apple users are asshats. Some are. Then so are some linux users. Some. Trouble is, the "some" shout loudest.

I didnt buy a mac for snob value, to look cool, or because I think Apple is cool. I hate ipods, I hate iphones, I don't like Steve Jobs' attitude. I use a mac because its the best tool for the job I need to do, professionally, for my living.

Professionals need the best gear because it has to work, has to do what its told, and has to be reliable. I dont think alot of people understand this. Its like camera spanners that argue over what the best camera is - most of the idiots talking about this dont shoot in anger. If my shots fail, I dont get paid. I need a pro body. I need a pro workflow solution to process my digital shots. I need a pro display so I get the colours right when I print 6ft wide for a client. I need my transparencies processed at a pro lab when I shoot film.

Do you see a pattern here?

Apple makes great gear for pros. Pro apps run on OSX. The fact that non-pro's use it is irrelevant. Windows is not a viable platform for me - its unreliable, and prone to viruses. I need reliabilty. Linux doesnt have the apps. What am I left with?

That's right. A Mac.

pwnst*r
May 12th, 2009, 08:19 PM
snob factor. oh brother. all OS's have snobs. get over it and quit crying.

thisllub
May 12th, 2009, 08:30 PM
I like to go into shops and start Garage Band on all the Macs at once.
Apart from that I find them slow and unproductive.

pwnst*r
May 12th, 2009, 08:31 PM
the maturity level just hit the floor.

xArv3nx
May 12th, 2009, 08:32 PM
snob factor. oh brother. all OS's have snobs. get over it and quit crying.
I've been to an Apple store, and if you're telling me the whole snob thing is just a myth, then you're full of it.

From what I've seen (after visiting various communities), this is how it goes:

Mac = snob
Linux = elitist (RTFM)
Windows = don't really care, the average user who doesn't want to spend $1500 on a new computer that only looks nicer.

pwnst*r
May 12th, 2009, 08:34 PM
I've been to an Apple store, and if you're telling me the whole snob thing is just a myth, then you're full of it.

From what I've seen (after visiting various communities), this is how it goes:

Mac = snob
Linux = elitist (RTFM)
Windows = don't really care, the average user who doesn't want to spend $1500 on a new computer that only looks nicer.

NOWHERE did i say it didn't exist. i sais ALL OS's have snobs. learn to read.

xArv3nx
May 12th, 2009, 08:36 PM
NOWHERE did i say it didn't exist. i sais ALL OS's have snobs. learn to read.
sorry, I quoted the wrong person.

gn2
May 12th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Apple screen -v- Dell screen review (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400) (both the same panel made by LG)

Apple screen reportedly worse than competition (http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/monitors/apple/led_cinema_display/274413).

Shockingly bad screen fitted to Macbook (http://gizmodo.com/5063492/macbook-and-macbook-pro-dual-review), just look at the picture....

Apple suppress information about poor display quality (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-display-update,1747.html) and further info about the problems (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-imac-display-problems-reported,1734.html).

Who makes Apple computers?

Macbook = ASUSTeK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus)
Macbook Pro = Quanta (http://www.quanta.com.tw/Quanta/english/Default.aspx)
iMac and Mac Mini = Quanta

Who do Quanta build for?
ACER, Alienware, Apple Inc., Cisco, Compaq, Dell, Fujitsu, Gateway, Gericom, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Maxdata, MPC, Sharp Corporation, Siemens AG, Sony, Sun Microsystems, and Toshiba.

pwnst*r
May 12th, 2009, 08:39 PM
sorry, I quoted the wrong person.

oh okay *hugs*

hyperdude111
May 12th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD UNIX. Isn't Ubuntu Linux based on UNIX? If so, then why buy a mac and pay a lot of money, when you could just get a cheap PC and put Ubuntu on it. You could get the legendary stability and other features of Mac OS X, without paying a fortune. I am a serious Mac fan, but if I can get somthing Just as good as Mac OS X for free, then I'll go for it. That's why I am running Ubuntu (But I miss the mac os x dock). What I am really trying to say here is: Why get a mac? Just get linux!:)

Want the dock, try AWN see this screenshot.

albinootje
May 12th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Why get a mac? Just get linux!:)

I never bought a Mac, I prefer to build my own desktops (so that I don't pay the MS-tax ;-)

But about the prices of Apples vs. Pear^h^h.. PCs :
Years ago Apple came with default with a SCSI disk, and SCSI always have been more expensive, perhaps Apple decided to stick to their more expensive prices even when the SCSI disk were replaced by IDE disks.

However, one thing that Apple does very well is the lack of noise of the machines.
I have heard very noisy PC desktops, and very noisy PC laptops, but I never came across a very noisy Apple machine.

Patrick-Ruff
May 12th, 2009, 08:55 PM
Want the dock, try AWN see this screenshot.

that's a pathetic substitution.

any mac user would be sick of it in seconds.

wsonar
May 12th, 2009, 08:56 PM
EDIT: Also, Apple makes the absolute best DAW in the world right now. Logic Pro 8.

LMMS is like logic and comes with a ton of free instruments....

I would run osx for Ableton live tho there isn't an open equivalent yet

wsonar
May 12th, 2009, 08:59 PM
I've been to an Apple store, and if you're telling me the whole snob thing is just a myth, then you're full of it.

From what I've seen (after visiting various communities), this is how it goes:

Mac = snob
Linux = elitist (RTFM)
Windows = don't really care, the average user who doesn't want to spend $1500 on a new computer that only looks nicer.

Wow almost quoted from the new windows PC commercials

koshatnik
May 12th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Apple screen -v- Dell screen review (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400) (both the same panel made by LG)

Apple screen reportedly worse than competition (http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/monitors/apple/led_cinema_display/274413).

Shockingly bad screen fitted to Macbook (http://gizmodo.com/5063492/macbook-and-macbook-pro-dual-review), just look at the picture....

Apple suppress information about poor display quality (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-display-update,1747.html) and further info about the problems (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-imac-display-problems-reported,1734.html).

Who makes Apple computers?

Macbook = ASUSTeK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus)
Macbook Pro = Quanta (http://www.quanta.com.tw/Quanta/english/Default.aspx)
iMac and Mac Mini = Quanta

Who do Quanta build for?
ACER, Alienware, Apple Inc., Cisco, Compaq, Dell, Fujitsu, Gateway, Gericom, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Maxdata, MPC, Sharp Corporation, Siemens AG, Sony, Sun Microsystems, and Toshiba.

And?

My eyes tell me there's a difference. So does my printer. That's all I care about. The rest you can pop in a pipe and smoke.

RiceMonster
May 12th, 2009, 09:12 PM
to the OP, why have ubuntu? why not just slackware? they're both linux, right?

Beat me too it.

Bottom line: If you think you can substitute Linux for a Mac, you've never used a Mac. It works both ways; Mac doesn't make up for Linux either.

Patrick-Ruff
May 12th, 2009, 09:28 PM
Beat me too it.

Bottom line: If you think you can substitute Linux for a Mac, you've never used a Mac. It works both ways; Mac doesn't make up for Linux either.

NOW THAT is a good post. that pretty much epitomizes the entire debate right here.

most people who debate mac, haven't used it in the ways those who debate linux have used it.

simple as that, you guys stay on your side of the wall, we'll stay on ours ;).

gn2
May 12th, 2009, 09:29 PM
~ My eyes tell me there's a difference. ~

They're telling you lies then.
When you pay extra for a shiny designer badge, you'll tell yourself anything to justify the additional purchase price.
You may not even be aware that you're doing it.

Patrick-Ruff
May 12th, 2009, 09:35 PM
They're telling you lies then.
When you pay extra for a shiny designer badge, you'll tell yourself anything to justify the additional purchase price.
You may not even be aware that you're doing it.

I personally am sick of this argument. I don't judge and operating system based on looks, and a great number of people don't do that either.

assuming that they do is offensive. an insult to their intelligence.

if there is ANYTHING worth paying extra for the designer 'badge' it's certainly an Apple.

billgoldberg
May 12th, 2009, 09:41 PM
If Mac OS X 10.5 is Unix-certified, then the certification is a joke. OS X is sorta Unix-like... sorta. But I think you'd get more of a genuine Unix experience by running Syllable.

OSX is Unix-certified.

I never said it was a good implementation, just that it's an official one.

gn2
May 12th, 2009, 09:51 PM
I personally am sick of this argument.

So don't participate.

Apple laptops use standard screens manufactured by the likes of LG and Chi-Mei, these screens are also fitted in other laptops.

SKLP
May 13th, 2009, 12:39 PM
That both are "unix-based" aren't a big part of their user experience. Sure, I'd prefer a nix shell over windows cmd any day, but the rest of the OSes are vastly different.

OSX has many advantages over Linux from a ordinary user perspective
1) since macs are the only supported machines, they are supported well, and you don't run the risk of broken suspend/resume etc etc
2) mac os has some nice features such as a much faster(try resizing a window in osx compared to doing it in linux with compiz enabled [on the same machine] and you will be amazed), more advanced(compositing is always enabled, vsync is enabled so less flicker, also they have lots of features such as ColorSync etc) graphics architecture.
What's also great is they already have a nice system-wide indexed search system (Spotlight) which works pretty great compared to the combination of find, locate, beagle on linux (or any other beagle alternative).
3) there are lots of apps which could be of use for many people (iLife, anyone?)

So while I'm personally using Ubuntu I would not recommend it to everyone, yet. I'm not that in to video editing etc, and I mostly use a web browser, banshee(which I adore), IM(empathy is nice), and also some development mostly in the terrific mono platform.

Also suspend/resume works great on my laptop in jaunty. If it didn't, I would likely use Windows, since suspend/resume is IMO a really important feature on laptop.

ukripper
May 13th, 2009, 01:18 PM
Mac Rocks...However, I have never used it!;)

Sublime Porte
May 13th, 2009, 01:49 PM
that's a pathetic substitution.

any mac user would be sick of it in seconds.

If you used AWN, you'd probably change your mind. It has a ton more features than the Mac dock, and is themeable, so the default look you saw can be changed, same for most docks on Linux, like Cairo-dock for instance.

I personally found the Mac dock quite a let down, after having used the Linux docks for the past year or so. Only tried OSX out a few weeks ago, and can't say I was all that impressed.

Just as an example of how much more 'together' Ubuntu is than OSX, I have a Huawei e220 3G modem, and tried connecting it in OSX, it was a complete nightmare. Whilst on Ubuntu, you plug it in, select your provider (during the automatic installation/detection wizard) and within about 30 seconds you're suring the web. OSX might have been nice once upon a time, but there's no way it can keep up with a 6 month release cycle and the excellent support for new technologies that is bringing.

dmizer
May 13th, 2009, 01:59 PM
Way too much flame here. Sorry.