RIP 3D Realms

[Sand & Mercury]

Full article: http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/5089.html


It's the end of an era and easily the longest-running project that has sparked what we assume is a record number of articles in the past 12 years.

The news first broke at ShackNews a few hours ago: a "very reliable source" who is close to 3D Realms has confirmed that the studio has been shut down. Previously working on the long-awaited Duke Nukem Forever, this unfortunate conclusion has come about due to "funding issues," and all the employees have already been laid off. Initially, it was expected that Apogee, the publisher responsible for the upcoming Duke Nukem Trilogy for the PSP, suffered the same fate, but that's not true. Apogee has just a released a statement saying that what happened to 3D Realms doesn't affect them, and the Deep Silver-developed set of handheld Duke titles remains on track. The first, Duke Nukem: Critical Mass, is still scheduled to launch in September. But as for 3D Realms and DNF...well, that's all she wrote.

From: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58519


3D Realms webmaster Joe Siegler has commented on the shut down, stating: "It's not a marketing thing. It's true. I have nothing further to say at this time."

Siegler's post also reflects the unexpected nature of the situation, as he was unaware of the impending shut down during an interview conducted yesterday afternoon.

Duke Nukem Never Ever Again. :(

EDIT: Sorry, this probably belongs in the cafe.

[hikaricore]

The Duke Nukem Forever List has been updated finally: http://duke.a-13.net/

[ELD]

Bugger them, they had 12 years, their own fualt.

[u235sentinel]

Bugger them, they had 12 years, their own fualt.

they should open source it. I understood they got a lot of it done. Since nobody is going to benefit from it, why not just open source it and other games nobody apparently cares about...

[Sand & Mercury]

they should open source it. I understood they got a lot of it done. Since nobody is going to benefit from it, why not just open source it and other games nobody apparently cares about...
Take2 still holds publishing rights to the game, I doubt they'd allow it.

I agree with you ELD, they were chucking cash around left and right with DNF's development and it went nowhere most of the time. 12 years with multiple resets suggests that the project was just really badly managed. They must've made the game like at least 3 times over.

[Vadi]

There goes the end of an era... and a lesson for the history books.

[CharmyBee]

they should open source it.
number of unreal engine games open sourced = 0

[KhaaL]

I doubt they have the rights to opensource the engine (any of the three engines).

Anyway, while this is sad news, it made me "lol". Duke nukem forever lives now up to its name.

[ELD]

Duke nukem for-never

[Kareeser]

Game developer studio 3D Realms has reportedly shut down:
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1127

Heh, remember Duke Nukem 3D, with its mouse-less control? Man, that game was the bomb. (Yes, that's how we talked back then too, ;))

The next question is:
When will the source code to whatever's been done be released... and how soon will open-source developers inspect and finish the code? :)

[Deamos]

I was disappointed when I heard this. However, this has been a long time coming. I seriously don't know how 3D Realms got away with keeping a project in the works for so long without this happening already.

I do hope the current builds are released and mayhap the source :)

[LowSky]

Well I wasw never really a fan, but how did a game like this fall through the cracks? Its a staple of PC gaming.

[Sand & Mercury]

I made a thread about this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1151582

[LightB]

It says Take-Two retains the rights to it. It's doubtful it was anywhere near finished anyway, so it doesn't matter. I'm kind of split on whether I care about more Duke Nukem games or not. They sort of ran their course. They were a self-parody and ran their course. Then again...

"what are you waitin' for, christmas?", still epic. :lol:

[geoken]

They could have just built some mediocre Unreal Engine based game and the hype alone would have made them huge sales.

[Polygon]

aww, didn't 3d realms make prey? that was a good game...its sad to see them go.

[bapoumba]

Threads merged.

[Sand & Mercury]

Threads merged.
Thanks mate.


I do hope the current builds are released and mayhap the source
I'd really love to see this, especially the really old Quake 2 engine-powered content. Who knows, maybe that could happen, since the Q2 engine is open source now and 3D Realms have released old unused stuff to enthusiasts before, including an old beta of the original Duke 3D. Granted, that was after the real thing was actually released, so who knows what will happen now.

They better keep their site and forums up; the site has heaps and heaps of old, rare nostalgic nuggets, and the forums were really a melting pot of talent.

[CharmyBee]

Heh, remember Duke Nukem 3D, with its mouse-less control?
Mouse-less? Press U.

[Erik Trybom]

What I want to know is how on Earth they could finance twelve years of not producing anything. The project manager - if they had one - should have been fired about nine years ago.

I don't believe 3D Realms were even close to having a finished game. If they were, Take-Two wouldn't have pulled the plug on the project. Probably they just got stuck in some endless write-discard-rewrite cycle without any real structure and going nowhere. And sooner or later there would come a new, better 3D engine...

[scottuss]

Is it just me thinking that even if it did ever get completed it would be crap? The theory that the longer it takes the better it will be or whatever doesn't hold up in my mind, in fact I feel the opposite.

If something takes 12 years to make that other companies can make in 2 years, you have to wonder what A) crap is going in there and B) What bad management and thus other decisions must have been made.

Just my 2p

[Sand & Mercury]

Is it just me thinking that even if it did ever get completed it would be crap? The theory that the longer it takes the better it will be or whatever doesn't hold up in my mind, in fact I feel the opposite.
Daikatana supports your theory...

[aaaantoine]

Daikatana supports your theory...

Daikatana practically invented this theory.

The more hype a game gets early on, and the longer it takes to be released after the fact, the more disappointing the game will be. Case in point: Duke Nukem Forever was the ultimate disappointment after 12 years of production.

Notable exception to this rule: every game Blizzard Entertainment released since Warcraft II --although you could argue that those games did not live up to gamers' expectations, they were otherwise vastly successful.

[dragos240]

I wish I knew what you guys were talking about. What's 3D realms?

[CharmyBee]

Daikatana practically invented this theory.

Battlecruiser 3000. Daikatana was an above-average game where most "professional" reviewers just judge it from the controversial market hype and can't get past the abysmal marsh level.

[aaaantoine]

Battlecruiser 3000.

Ooh, well played.


I wish I knew what you guys were talking about. What's 3D realms?

Well, they're best known for Duke Nukem 3D. But they've had other cool games as well. In the past they were also known as Apogee Software. And if you played any games during the early 90s whatsoever, you've played one of their games.

They really didn't make too many of their own games. I believe they were involved in conceptualizing games like Max Payne & Prey, but ended up giving them to third parties to develop. They were best known for the concept of "shareware" demos, which usually consisted of a complete chapter of the full game, available for free.

Aside form Duke Nukem 3D, other awesome games either developed or published by Apogee/3D Realms include:

Commander Keen (developed by id Software)
Wolfenstein 3D (developed by id Software)
Rise of the Triad
Terminal Velocity (developed by Terminal Reality)
Shadow Warrior (not quite awesome, but at least notable)
Max Payne (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Max Payne 2 (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Prey (developed by Human Head Studios)

More info at their Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Realms

[forrestcupp]

I read another article about this where they quoted Apogee on this. I don't remember the exact words, but they basically said that they never intended to provide open-ended funding for this project. They said that not being able to finish after 12 years shows incompitence in the developing process. I really wanted this game to come, but I agree with Apogee.


Heh, remember Duke Nukem 3D, with its mouse-less control? Man, that game was the bomb. (Yes, that's how we talked back then too, ;))

The next question is:
When will the source code to whatever's been done be released... and how soon will open-source developers inspect and finish the code? :)
They did have mouse support for Duke Nukem 3D, but it really sucked compared to how today's games are set up. That game was the bomb, though. It was a pioneer in its day. It was the first game to be truly 3D. It was the first game where you could jump and fly with a jetpack. Until that time, all we had were Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. You couldn't even jump in those.

And this isn't going open source. It's already been stated that it's based on an Unreal engine, so they really can't release it. It's pretty much toast.

[DOS4dinner]

:(There goes my childhood. I still remember watching my brothers play Duke3D long ago...And I played Commander Keen and Crystal Caves.

It's sad to see them go. Hopefully they will release their older games as freeware, as I would hate to see them fall into illegal yet won't be legal for 80 years abandonware.

[will1911a1]

It never would have lived up to expectations anyway.

[CharmyBee]

Hopefully they will release their older games as freeware
They've already done the last freeware rereleases they'll ever do just a month or two back (Kroz).

[LightB]

Ooh, well played.



Well, they're best known for Duke Nukem 3D. But they've had other cool games as well. In the past they were also known as Apogee Software. And if you played any games during the early 90s whatsoever, you've played one of their games.

They really didn't make too many of their own games. I believe they were involved in conceptualizing games like Max Payne & Prey, but ended up giving them to third parties to develop. They were best known for the concept of "shareware" demos, which usually consisted of a complete chapter of the full game, available for free.

Aside form Duke Nukem 3D, other awesome games either developed or published by Apogee/3D Realms include:

Commander Keen (developed by id Software)
Wolfenstein 3D (developed by id Software)
Rise of the Triad
Terminal Velocity (developed by Terminal Reality)
Shadow Warrior (not quite awesome, but at least notable)
Max Payne (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Max Payne 2 (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Prey (developed by Human Head Studios)

More info at their Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Realms

I played about 4 of those. But I wouldn't say Max Payne applies here since it's "real" 3d. As far as the fake 3d, Duke Nukem 3d was cool but my fav was Blood, was not by 3d Realms.

[forrestcupp]

I played about 4 of those. But I wouldn't say Max Payne applies here since it's "real" 3d. As far as the fake 3d, Duke Nukem 3d was cool but my fav was Blood, was not by 3d Realms.

What? Duke Nukem 3D was real 3D. It just wasn't enhanced by 3D accelerated video card features. But that doesn't mean it wasn't real 3D. It was the first game that you could actually move around in all three dimensions.

[CharmyBee]

What? Duke Nukem 3D was real 3D. It just wasn't enhanced by 3D accelerated video card features. But that doesn't mean it wasn't real 3D. It was the first game that you could actually move around in all three dimensions.

Duke3D was 2.5D. Quake came out in the same year with real 3D with brushes and real room over room (rather than tricks through 2D line portals)

And there are various games before Duke3D in which you can move in all dimensions. Descent is one. Marathon is another. Shadow Caster was even earlier and let you fly upwards.

[stwschool]

We can go back further if you like, my first 3d games were Castle Master and Damocles on the Atari ST, with lovely fat flat-filled polygons, or go back to the prequel to Damocles (Mercenary 1) on the old 8-bit computers. 3d has been around for ages.

[Sand & Mercury]

Battlecruiser 3000. Daikatana was an above-average game where most "professional" reviewers just judge it from the controversial market hype and can't get past the abysmal marsh level.
I really think they it was right to get the whooping it did. The medieval level designs were quite cool but it didn't have much else going for it. Just an average FPS with bad voice acting and AI partners who did more to impede your progress than help it

Epic needs to release the Unreal engine as open source. It's a dinosaur anyway, what do they have to lose?

[LightB]

Duke3D was 2.5D. Quake came out in the same year with real 3D with brushes and real room over room (rather than tricks through 2D line portals)

And there are various games before Duke3D in which you can move in all dimensions. Descent is one. Marathon is another. Shadow Caster was even earlier and let you fly upwards.

We can call it whatever but it's true the up/down dimension wasn't very accurate in these games, in fact it was used as little as possible in actual gameplay, unlike in "real" 3d. Where it gets tricky is whether we would call something like 3d Playstation games and those other games mentioned as "real 3d". There is some hardware rendering there but also software. I would call that the link between fake and real 3d, maybe?

Anyways, I can't even play most fps games anymore, they give me a splitting headache, particularly the ones with realistic movements, darkness, and enclosed settings.

[gloscherrybomb]

Ooh, well played.



Well, they're best known for Duke Nukem 3D. But they've had other cool games as well. In the past they were also known as Apogee Software. And if you played any games during the early 90s whatsoever, you've played one of their games.

They really didn't make too many of their own games. I believe they were involved in conceptualizing games like Max Payne & Prey, but ended up giving them to third parties to develop. They were best known for the concept of "shareware" demos, which usually consisted of a complete chapter of the full game, available for free.

Aside form Duke Nukem 3D, other awesome games either developed or published by Apogee/3D Realms include:

Commander Keen (developed by id Software)
Wolfenstein 3D (developed by id Software)
Rise of the Triad
Terminal Velocity (developed by Terminal Reality)
Shadow Warrior (not quite awesome, but at least notable)
Max Payne (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Max Payne 2 (developed by Remedy Entertainment)
Prey (developed by Human Head Studios)

More info at their Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Realms

Wow thanks for bringing Commander Keen back in to my life!

[MaxIBoy]

I really think they it was right to get the whooping it did. The medieval level designs were quite cool but it didn't have much else going for it. Just an average FPS with bad voice acting and AI partners who did more to impede your progress than help it

Epic needs to release the Unreal engine as open source. It's a dinosaur anyway, what do they have to lose?Unreal Engine 3 uses the same model and (I think) map format as Unreal Engine 1. The engines are more similar than you'd think.


Anyway, 3D Realms couldn't release the source to their engine, unless they purged all remaining Unreal code (just UnrealScript, the netcode, and UnrealEd,) which is actually fairly doable. But what's in it for them, they're no longer being paid to develop the game, and it's not like any of them are getting new jobs any time soon.