A Word of Comfort during the Windows 7 Hype

[forrestcupp]

There is a lot of hype over Windows 7 right now, even in a forum for Linux. At any time, you probably can look on the front page of the Cafe and see at least 2 threads about Windows 7 with some bashing Microsoft and some, including me, excited about it. Windows 7 is exciting because it appears to be the first worthwhile OS offering that Microsoft has put out for a long time.

But in the midst of this excitement and all of the Linux users that we see who are excited about it, there is no need to fear. Windows 7 will not kill Linux or Ubuntu, and it will not draw away the masses. There's something about Linux that once you've used it and had a good experience with it, you can never get it out of your system. It's also exciting to watch how fast things advance in the Linux world. So, even though Windows 7 is kind of exciting, I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.

Besides, even if a bunch of people jump on the free RC bandwagon, most of them will be back next March when it starts shutting down every 2 hours. :)

[SuperSonic4]

I agree, windows won't kill Linux but I still don't trust Microsoft when it comes to monitoring my PC especially beyond my knowledge (which is essentially spyware). The main difference is that XP was released at a time when digital music was not that big and there was less need to spy on customers and restrict freedoms. Now the MPAA and RIAA are pressuring microsoft to spy on people's computers and since it will get them more cash Microsoft are happy to oblige.

[Screwdriver0815]

Windows 7 is exciting because it appears to be the first worthwhile OS offering that Microsoft has put out for a long time.
just a short question: what is exciting about an OS which you have to pay for - and it is... worthwhile and useful? Shouldn't it be normal that an OS is worthwhile and useful? Even when you have to pay for it?

[Hyper Tails]

Well i have to say I tried it and it's better than vista.
So it seems microsoft is puting alot of effort in windows 7 (vienna)

So they said there release date is on june 3rd and thats a month from now.

can't wait

[SunnyRabbiera]

For me the hype is unjustified, everyone is "the beta is so awesome"
"Win7 is so fast!"
"Win7 offers free downloads!"
I doubt the final version will be as good as its beta's, we all know what happened to Longhorn.
Vista left a bad taste for everyone, MS cannot afford another mistake but with the company caring more about flashy looks then the actual quality of the product then Win7 will be another Vista without taking caution.
I have a great amount of scepticism, at least on linux I know most of it is experimental but Windows is supposed to be "Professional"
Vista is no better then the experimental stuff we deal with day to day on linux, in fact its worse.

[Sand & Mercury]

I doubt the final version will be as good as its beta's, we all know what happened to Longhorn.
It'll only be another Longhorn if Microsoft decides to cancel development of Windows 7 and start again now. It's essentially ready for release at this point, and it's a solid system.

[SomeGuyDude]

Is it just me or are a lot of people here almost afraid that Windows 7 will be good? It's weird.

I don't care if Win7 is the best OS ever. I use Linux, I like it, and it doesn't matter how successful or unsuccessful it is, the Linux project isn't going anywhere.

[mamamia88]

Is it just me or are a lot of people here almost afraid that Windows 7 will be good? It's weird.

I don't care if Win7 is the best OS ever. I use Linux, I like it, and it doesn't matter how successful or unsuccessful it is, the Linux project isn't going anywhere.

i actually hope windows 7 is the best os ever. that way i can play my games without a dualboot

[SuperSonic4]

Is it just me or are a lot of people here almost afraid that Windows 7 will be good? It's weird.

I don't care if Win7 is the best OS ever. I use Linux, I like it, and it doesn't matter how successful or unsuccessful it is, the Linux project isn't going anywhere.

You have a point there, do we even want the average windows user who is generally unwilling to learn and entrenched in their ways using linux? It's likely they'll give negative and constructive feedback putting people off

[LowSky]

I think Win7 is ok, but nothing spectacular. Its following normal Microsoft evolution.
Its basically Vista with a newer version GUI and faster because they got rid of Vistas bugs.

Personally I still think Windows has created a situation like Coca-Cola did when they sold New Coke (ahem Vista), Windows 7 is Microsoft's way of saying Vista was a blemish, that somehow actually made them money.


Will I pick up a copy, probably, I need to run games and business applications with an OS that is supported.

As far as my OS of choice it is still Linux using Gnome. As long as Gnome 3.0 doesn't ruin that for me...lol

[mips]

Is it just me or are a lot of people here almost afraid that Windows 7 will be good? It's weird.

I don't care if Win7 is the best OS ever. I use Linux, I like it, and it doesn't matter how successful or unsuccessful it is, the Linux project isn't going anywhere.

It's common zealot behaviour.

Things like Ubuntu are like religion to some people. They will only attack stuff which is not of their mindset or their current religion cannot do or does not cater for. Somehow it makes them feel more secure in their beliefs.

Examples:
This being an Ubuntu forum people like to bash KDE but you will see people occasionally asking for things in Gnome that offers them applications/features available in KDE.

People will bash people using other linux distros other than Ubuntu if they happen to mention why they use a another distro and backing it up because why it is better for them.

Some people using Ubuntu will feel superior to Windows users and make that known but heaven forbid a Gentoo (example) user takes the wind out of their sails.

It al boils down to people being immature, emotional, unobjective & irrational. It's fine to have an opinion or make a statement but please try and back it up with some rational logic.

I hope Windows 7 is good product and from all the feedback I have heard from testers I believe it is going to be just that, a good product.

Live and let live. Why invest so much energy in something people don't like?

[WildeBeest]

I installed Win 7 RC on Saturday.

It took over 2 hours to install. WTF

I didn't have much time to play around with, but my initial impression is that it's Vista with some tweaking.

The UAC isn't a PITA and it feels slightly more responsive.

That's the only improvements as I can tell.

[Kareeser]

+1, mips.

A lot of the users here are also Windows users as well. There's nothing wrong with supporting an OS like Windows, since they're just a business... a business with a wildly successful product.

The worst thing you can do to promote Linux/FOSS is insult the OS choices of others.

... spelling Microsoft with a dollar sign comes a close second.

[stwschool]

Windows 7 isn't bad. It's pleasant to use, compatibility seems ok, I've used a beta on dual-boot with linux for a while, before switching back to pure ubuntu. It's still Windows, so honestly I won't be using it due to its proneness to malware, but it's good to see MS making strides on usability.
Personally I WANT Microsoft to put out a good release, as it'll raise the bar and push others on to better them. That's good for all of us, right?

[Wiebelhaus]

And we can always depend on those pesky Viruses. Which Win7 being a better Vista will still be subject to orifice violation.

[geoken]

Personally I WANT Microsoft to put out a good release, as it'll raise the bar and push others on to better them. That's good for all of us, right?

Completely agree. I'm desperately hoping that Win 7, and the desire to mimick it's taskbar will make the Gnome devs decide to add icon scaling to the window list applet. I'm even optimistic that the several year long drought in useful compiz plugins may be temporarily alleviated as plug in writers pull some inspiration from Win 7.

[benj1]

Well i have to say I tried it and it's better than vista.

isn't that like saying pol pot is nicer than hitler?

[FuturePilot]

There is a lot of hype over Windows 7 right now, even in a forum for Linux. At any time, you probably can look on the front page of the Cafe and see at least 2 threads about Windows 7 with some bashing Microsoft and some, including me, excited about it. Windows 7 is exciting because it appears to be the first worthwhile OS offering that Microsoft has put out for a long time.

But in the midst of this excitement and all of the Linux users that we see who are excited about it, there is no need to fear. Windows 7 will not kill Linux or Ubuntu, and it will not draw away the masses. There's something about Linux that once you've used it and had a good experience with it, you can never get it out of your system. It's also exciting to watch how fast things advance in the Linux world. So, even though Windows 7 is kind of exciting, I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.

Besides, even if a bunch of people jump on the free RC bandwagon, most of them will be back next March when it starts shutting down every 2 hours. :)

I agree. I'm curious to see how Windows 7 turns out. However, I'm not going anywhere, I'm staying right here. Windows 7 will not draw me away from Ubuntu/Linux.

[dnguyen1963]

Listen...everything has its own pluses and minuses. When I first installed Ubuntu, it took me only 20 minutes (vs 2 hours for Vista)to install the OS, but then it took me another two days to resolve the wireless internet issues (whereas Vista recognized Wi-fi instantly). I have been using only Ubuntu (I have dual-boot) because I don't want to deal with all the viruses and updates. Will I completely remove Windows from my computer? The answer is NO. Will I pay for Windows 7? The answer is NO. It does not mean that I hate Windows. I only hate the fact that Windows is such a bad product that is constantly attacked by so many different kinds of viruses. I do consider antivirus software virus themselves. I would be very happy to see Microsoft succeed in putting out a stable and worry-free OS. I am not a computer expert. I do not need to tinker with the OS. I just need the OS to be stable and user friendly. Ubuntu 8.10 works just fine for me!:P

[wiznillyp]

I expect after the release of Win7, The Linux user base will plummet to 0.99%

[CharmyBee]

The main difference is that XP was released at a time when digital music was not that big
XP was a year and a half past the Napster craze, so it was already big. Even Windows ME recognized digital music and had its own CD ripper / encoder.

[nathang1392]

i dont think ubuntu should worry. everyone confuses loving ubuntu with hating Microsoft. i dont hate them, but i do think they are a rip off. ubuntu doesnt have to compete with windows, i dont think it is all about that. i think ubuntu is just for people who like it, and if you like windows..use it.

[Kareeser]

... it took me only 20 minutes (vs 2 hours for Vista)to install the OS, but then it took me another two days to resolve the wireless internet issues (whereas Vista recognized Wi-fi instantly).

Vista recognized your Wifi card instantly? Without a connection to the internet?

Wow, +1 for Vista there.

Usually, Windows doesn't even try to resolve driver issues, throws up a "!" box and tells me to do something about it... :)

[golusweet]

Windows sucks, The reason, Windows is still dominating because people are still unaware of Linux. Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.

In my place, Nobody is aware of Linux.

[Kareeser]

Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.

^ The rallying cry of the Ubuntu fanboi.

I'll start.

golusweet: Prove it.

[Sealbhach]

^ The rallying cry of the Ubuntu fanboi.

I'll start.

golusweet: Prove it.

wtf?

Please don't use that expression here.


.

[forrestcupp]

As far as my OS of choice it is still Linux using Gnome. As long as Gnome 3.0 doesn't ruin that for me...lolI'm actually almost as excited about Gnome 3 as I am Windows 7.


I only hate the fact that Windows is such a bad product that is constantly attacked by so many different kinds of viruses.Windows isn't constantly attacked by viruses because it's a bad product; it's attacked because that's what everyone uses and virus creators want to affect as many people as possible.


Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.
Lol. No, the majority of Windows users are using OEM versions that they didn't have to pay for because they were preinstalled on their computers.

I've used Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows XP, Windows Vista 32-bit & 64-bit. I've only paid for Windows once and that was an OEM XP disc that I paid around $50 for. I've never pirated; they all came on computers I bought. You can see from Dell that Windows really doesn't make that much difference in price.

Oh, I guess I paid about $5 or $10 for Windows Me through a student license. But that's all.

[geoken]

Windows sucks, The reason, Windows is still dominating because people are still unaware of Linux. Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.

In my place, Nobody is aware of Linux.

No, the ridiculously vast majority of people who would never even consider installing an OS and don't even know what an OS is are running the legit version of Windows that came pre-installed on their computer.

[benj1]

Windows isn't constantly attacked by viruses because it's a bad product; it's attacked because that's what everyone uses and virus creators want to affect as many people as possible.
how many servers use linux?.
besides if it were as easy as windows, there would be at least one or two viruses.
i do accept your argument up to a point, but linux is much more secure than windows

[pwnst*r]

Besides, even if a bunch of people jump on the free RC bandwagon, most of them will be back next March when it starts shutting down every 2 hours. :)

exaggerate much?

[Bungo Pony]

Don't worry. Right after Win7 is released, Microsoft will begin working on killing it and releasing Win8. And Linux will still be technologically ahead by years. IE was probably the last (still being developed) browser to get tabs, and Windows doesn't even have multiple workspaces yet.

Remember how you felt when going from Win9x to Win3.x (or DOS?) I feel that way when I go from Linux to Windows.

[geoken]

how many servers use linux?.
besides if it were as easy as windows, there would be at least one or two viruses.
i do accept your argument up to a point, but linux is much more secure than windows

The Server argument doesn't really hold water because there are also very few malware incidents on Windows server.

Most malware is just regular software + social engineering which is why you don't see it on servers.

[geoken]

Don't worry. Right after Win7 is released, Microsoft will begin working on killing it and releasing Win8. And Linux will still be technologically ahead by years. IE was probably the last (still being developed) browser to get tabs, and Windows doesn't even have multiple workspaces yet.



Windows has internally handled multiple desktops for a while. They released a client app in XP, but left it up to third parties for future versions. Despite the fact that they haven't made a first party app for virtual desktops (unless you consider the sysinternals stuff which is technically first party), the internal API's still exist. It's the reason why multiple monitor handling is so much more robust in Windows than in Linux.

[PurposeOfReason]

how many servers use linux?.
besides if it were as easy as windows, there would be at least one or two viruses.
i do accept your argument up to a point, but linux is much more secure than windows
The old server argument. Great, let's compare apples(desktop) to orages(servers). Linux has it's place, Windows has its. Personally, I would like to see them both evolve to take on the others traits. Linux could use some simple standards (ex: RPM is the "standard" but is far less used) so that it was easier to develop and package for. Windows could take on a bit of ease of application installation and security.

The best OS is one that takes care of the most needs. If linux could game, it would hold much more for users. Sadly, that and many programs (photoshop, any decent audio mixing software), we don't have (GIMP means nothing to someone who wants photoshop).

TL;DR
Windows succuess is everybodys. Linux and MS alike.

[forrestcupp]

exaggerate much?I don't understand you're point. Are you saying that they won't come back next March?


Don't worry. Right after Win7 is released, Microsoft will begin working on killing it and releasing Win8.I doubt it. They're not even dropping support for Vista until Jan. 2012. In the past, they have always sold the old OS retail for a minimum of 6 months after the release of the new OS. They are actually hinting that they will give downgrade to Vista rights until 2011. I don't think many people will take them up on that offer, though.


The Server argument doesn't really hold water because there are also very few malware incidents on Windows server.

Most malware is just regular software + social engineering which is why you don't see it on servers.
Thank you. That's what I was about to say; then I saw your post.

[benj1]

The Server argument doesn't really hold water because there are also very few malware incidents on Windows server.

Most malware is just regular software + social engineering which is why you don't see it on servers.

my point is that linux is more secure than windows, and if there was a security flaw with linux, it would have been exploited because it is more wide spread in servers.

i do agree that most attacks, rely on the user, but non the less, linux with its permissions etc is inherently more secure.

[geoken]

i do agree that most attacks, rely on the user, but non the less, linux with its permissions etc is inherently more secure.

I'm not trying to agree or disagree with your conclusions, I'm just saying that the server market doesn't accurately reflect the desktop market. With servers, typically the only people who touch them are people who are specially trained in securing them and keeping them running well.

[PurposeOfReason]

my point is that linux is more secure than windows, and if there was a security flaw with linux, it would have been exploited because it is more wide spread in servers.

i do agree that most attacks, rely on the user, but non the less, linux with its permissions etc is inherently more secure.
Very, VERY few people are dumb enough to try to take down a server. Some might go for direct attacks on a site, but not a server? Think about it, taking down servers hurts everyone, including the person doing the damage. Of course there are a few instaces, there always are.

[Polygon]

to the OP: too bad it is linux that is shutting down every 2 hours and not windows (random kernel bug that produces no error logs our output).......so.....windows 7 rc here i come? =P

[MikeTheC]

THIS JUST IN... New operating system from Microsoft touted as "best ever"
:popcorn:

[LightB]

There is a lot of hype over Windows 7 right now, even in a forum for Linux.

Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS, perhaps, not serious linux forums.


Windows 7 will not kill Linux or Ubuntu, and it will not draw away the masses.

Whew, thanks, I thought "we" were done for!! :roll:

[LightB]

THIS JUST IN... New operating system from Microsoft touted as "best ever"
:popcorn:

But this time it's true! Trust us, you zealot infidels! :lol:

[Dr. C]

I agree, windows won't kill Linux but I still don't trust Microsoft when it comes to monitoring my PC especially beyond my knowledge (which is essentially spyware). The main difference is that XP was released at a time when digital music was not that big and there was less need to spy on customers and restrict freedoms. Now the MPAA and RIAA are pressuring microsoft to spy on people's computers and since it will get them more cash Microsoft are happy to oblige.

A solution to this is to set up a gateway computer using 100% Free Software between the Windows box and the Internet. http://www.gNewSense.org is perfect for this. It is Ubuntu 8.04 stripped of any possible proprietary firmware drivers etc., and meets the strictest standard of software freedom by the FSF. 100% Free software here is critical here in order to be fair to Microsoft

All traffic packets coming in and out of the Windows box to the Internet have to go through the gNewSense box and can be inspected using Free Software tools. Wireshark is a good way to get started and check out what is really going on.

There was a study done in Canada on applications with very interesting results on DRM and privacy violations etc. http://www.cippic.ca/uploads/CIPPIC_Report_DRM_and_Privacy.pdf

[wiznillyp]

THIS JUST IN... New operating system from Microsoft touted as "best ever"
:popcorn:And most secure and most user friendly.

[ade234uk]

I honestly cannot be bothered or support a product business that has tried on many occasions to ruin the reputation of Linux time after time.

I hate Microsoft and I hate the look of Windows 7.

[montini]

I installed Win 7 RC on Saturday.

It took over 2 hours to install. WTF


Well, that's strange - I installed W7beta on my brother's PC (QuadCore+4GB RAM - he likes to play games :) and it took me nearly only 10 min. and only 1 dialog box asking for regional keyboard layout. I must admit I was impressed - all the hardware seemed to work OOTB ('xept maybe TV tuner card, but it's old hardware). After a week I asked how W7 was working, and brother told it was ok.

[forrestcupp]

Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS, perhaps, not serious linux forums.



Whew, thanks, I thought "we" were done for!! :roll:

Well, I wrote the original post with good intentions because I could tell there were a few people who seemed to be freaked out by all of the hype about Windows 7. But of course there are going to be hard headed zealots that will even criticize someone who is trying to balance out the Windows hype in an unbiased manner.

What I can't understand is why someone that hardcore would waste their time hanging out on a forum that is not a "serious linux forum".

[LightB]

Well, I wrote the original post with good intentions because I could tell there were a few people who seemed to be freaked out by all of the hype about Windows 7. But of course there are going to be hard headed zealots that will even criticize someone who is trying to balance out the Windows hype in an unbiased manner.

I think you're arguing phantoms. My point is that there is nobody freaking out about anything. It's a bit of a joke to imply it. As if people are running and screaming on the streets. :lol:


What I can't understand is why someone that hardcore would waste their time hanging out on a forum that is not a "serious linux forum".

I wouldn't know either, since you're incorrect. But even if you weren't, it's a total logical fallacy to assume the only place somebody would want to be is in a "serious" forum. If you look around, this is general topic.

[geoken]

THIS JUST IN... New * from * touted as "best ever"


Fixed.

[mamamia88]

downloading rc as we speak

[Vorian Grey]

Windows sucks, The reason, Windows is still dominating because people are still unaware of Linux. Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.

In my place, Nobody is aware of Linux.

Windows has the mind share, they have the marketing, it comes on every new computer from everywhere. You can't escape it. With that presence you would expect Windows to dominate.

[phrostbyte]

Well this is one major reason I miss the other OS discussion forum, if it still existed all threads about Windows 7 including this one would have been moved to it by now. But now this is considered proper topics for the Community Cafe and it's making this place look like neowin or something. I don't think it's good for Ubuntu.

[Methuselah]

I haven't found the windows 7 hype overbearing.
It's no more hyped than Vista was.
Remember we were supposed to get a database for a filesystem and a bunch of other 'revolutionary' features.
The greatest selling point for windows 7 seems to be that it might not suck coco de mer which is more of an idictment against Vista than praise for 7.

Personally, I find Windows 7 mostly irrelevant since I am happily running unbuntu almost everywhere ta home.

[merkourio]

I just don't see the point of Win7!
As i saw from the beta vids, it's just something like a really poorly tweaked Vista!
And... Although Microsoft cannot suffer another "hit" like Vista, i Don't think they have changed anything in they philosophy! 90% ads + 9% "support" + 1% Updates...

Also, why should I buy (or just get into the fuss to pirate ;)) a new version of the Windows family, which have never ever pleased me?

Why, if I have Ubuntu Jaunty, Gnome-CompizFusion, Avant Window Navigator?

[sydbat]

I think all the "hype" comes from discussions like this. If people would not talk about Windows 7 (or any other version) there would be no hype at all. However, you find this kind of thing on most tech sites, mostly bitching about how bad Microsoft/Windows is.

This is what Microsoft expects/hopes for - people to extol the virtues of the "new" OS or completely lambaste it. Either way, Microsoft wins.

[merkourio]

However, you find this kind of thing on most tech sites, mostly bitching about how bad Microsoft/Windows is.


Don't get me wrong!
I don't say that it is impossible to Microsoft to make a good OS, I just want to say that it IS hard!

Also I wanted to underline that how uncostumizable it is!

[dnguyen1963]

Vista recognized your Wifi card instantly? Without a connection to the internet?

Wow, +1 for Vista there.

Usually, Windows doesn't even try to resolve driver issues, throws up a "!" box and tells me to do something about it... :)

Of course there is an internet connection...Vista is not that smart.:P

[geoken]

Also I wanted to underline that how uncostumizable it is!

In what way?

I'm running this with tango icons, a different theme and effects which replicate any function of Compiz that I care to use.

[sydbat]

Don't get me wrong!
I don't say that it is impossible to Microsoft to make a good OS, I just want to say that it IS hard!

Also I wanted to underline that how uncostumizable it is!Thank you for missing my point.

[merkourio]

Just in every way!
Just think about the window decorators, the theme managers...
And all of these are official!

[dnguyen1963]

Windows sucks, The reason, Windows is still dominating because people are still unaware of Linux. Besides, Majority of Windows users use Pirated versions.

In my place, Nobody is aware of Linux.

In my company, except for the IT dept., very few people have ever heard of Linux. Has there ever been an ad for Linux on TV? Would it not be fun to see a PC vs Mac vs Linux commercial?

[sydbat]

In my company, except for the IT dept., very few people have ever heard of Linux. Has there ever been an ad for Linux on TV? Would it not be fun to see a PC vs Mac vs Linux commercial?Warning - Adult Content!

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/upgrading.php
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/services.php
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/security.php

Ahhhh...Canadian comedy...

[geoken]

Just in every way!
Just think about the window decorators, the theme managers...
And all of these are official!

So? Look up Msstyles on deviantArt and you'll see they are just as varied (if not moreso) than Gnome themes.

I don't really see how supplying an official decorator and theme manager would change things anymore than Ubuntu's supplied decorator inhibits me from applying different themes.

[dnguyen1963]

Warning - Adult Content!

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/upgrading.php
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/services.php
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/security.php

Ahhhh...Canadian comedy...

Thanks Sydbat...no wonder these are not on regular TV.

[forrestcupp]

I just don't see the point of Win7!
As i saw from the beta vids, it's just something like a really poorly tweaked Vista!Well, I just installed 7 last night. At first, I was disappointed about how much was carried over from Vista. But after getting time to look it over today, I have to say that it's pretty amazing. The UI is quite a bit different than Vista, and it's definitely not a "poorly tweaked" implementation. They did a great job and added a lot of cool, usable features that makes it a much more modern UI.


Don't get me wrong!
I don't say that it is impossible to Microsoft to make a good OS, I just want to say that it IS hard!

Also I wanted to underline that how uncostumizable it is!

Did you say that from experience, or from prejudice? One of the big things they focused on in Win7 is customization. Win7 actually seems more customizable than Gnome now. After the way that they intentionally prevented customization in XP and Vista, I can't believe how much you can configure 7.

I still wish they would open up Aero for 3rd party extensions, though. But at least they added a lot of usable bling that Vista didn't have.

[merkourio]

Did you say that from experience, or from prejudice?

Aham... Got your point...

As I stated before, I have not Used Win7, so I just commented on previous versions of Windows (that's the prejudice part).
On the other hand, as I said before, how could I not prejudice something that I have been working with for ages, and I had a lot of bad experience? And theres experience coming in the scene, cause in my enviorment (friends, family, "work") almost everybody uses Windows, and NONE of them is actually happy about it!

P.S. Can you send me the iso of Win7 Beta?

[monsterstack]

Windows 7 is getting lots of attention here because there are many geeks here and as geeks, we love new things :) Then there are the ones who are curious because of all the hype and attention, which just fuels the fires. Microsoft always have been pretty slick at marketing: getting random people online to do it for you is no easy feat. I won't be getting the new OS, but I am interested in how well it takes off.

Some people have been pondering the reasons why Microsoft Windows is so popular as an OS. The reason is because Windows is installed on people's hard disks when they buy a new PC. Always has been.

[geoken]

I still wish they would open up Aero for 3rd party extensions, though. But at least they added a lot of usable bling that Vista didn't have.

Aero is actually pretty open for extension. It provides several API's that can be used for creating third party effects.

My favorite is Switcher, a great expose clone.
http://insentient.net/

[cmat]

Windows 7 wasn't anything to call home about. It's feels much more responsive than Vista now that they fixed "features" like windows being held in the memory twice and GDI freezing when you make synchronous calls. Yeah the "Windows Freeze" is real and Microsoft's engineers finally got to fixing it. It's exactly what it is, hype. There are no profound changes to it other than small performance tweaks here and there and some GUI enhancements. Decent OS but it's not going to pull me away from the penguin exhibit.

[kelvin spratt]

I've used windows 7 since the 1st beta the latest rc is very good very good indeed. But it is still windows nothing has changed it still loves spyware malware and virus the same as XP .
How can anybody say that aero is better than Gnome its not in the same league on my desktop. The basic KDE4 has more effects than aero. as for full time use no its just a toy that I get bored with after a hour or two.
Its Arch/Parsix for me not windows 7.

[geoken]

Windows 7 wasn't anything to call home about. It's feels much more responsive than Vista now that they fixed "features" like windows being held in the memory twice and GDI freezing when you make synchronous calls.

Vista dropped GDI.

[cmat]

Vista dropped GDI.

Ah no it wasn't. Just took on a different form.
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/04/25/engineering-windows-7-for-graphics-performance.aspx

[forrestcupp]

Aham... Got your point...

As I stated before, I have not Used Win7, so I just commented on previous versions of Windows (that's the prejudice part).
On the other hand, as I said before, how could I not prejudice something that I have been working with for ages, and I had a lot of bad experience? And theres experience coming in the scene, cause in my enviorment (friends, family, "work") almost everybody uses Windows, and NONE of them is actually happy about it!Well, it is hard to not have prejudices from past experiences. In this case, as far as customization is concerned, they shockingly departed from their past shortcomings. I really like how you can theme it. In the past, you pretty much had to bypass their theming restrictions. Maybe they're finally listening to some of the end-users' complaints.


P.S. Can you send me the iso of Win7 Beta?There's no way I could send you a file that is over 3GB. But anyone can download the RC iso from this website (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/download.aspx). They will have the file and license keys available until July.


Aero is actually pretty open for extension. It provides several API's that can be used for creating third party effects.

My favorite is Switcher, a great expose clone.
http://insentient.net/Cool. I didn't know people could use Aero to do things like that. I wonder why there aren't more 3rd party effects available.

[Giant Speck]

I wonder how long it is going to be before Stardock releases a beta of Windowblinds 7.

As much as I like the functionality of the new taskbar, I wish it looked like the Vista taskbar.

[merkourio]

Well, it is hard to not have prejudices from past experiences. In this case, as far as customization is concerned, they shockingly departed from their past shortcomings. I really like how you can theme it. In the past, you pretty much had to bypass their theming restrictions. Maybe they're finally listening to some of the end-users' complaints.

I hope so...

[toupeiro]

I'm sorry, but I've been testing the beta's as well, and I fail to see whats so great about it. It's really not hard for an OS to be better than Vista, and it has nothing to do with a fear of killing linux.

Comparing Windows 7 to Windows Vista, or even Windows XP is a pretty shallow debate. I Don't really care if an OS in 2009 blows the doors off an OS that came out in 2001 FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER. I would hope to shout that it is. I expect this. The fact that Microsoft has struggled to give this to PC users is the bigger problem. They've lost a sense of valued direction with their product. I care about how windows 7 compares with its competition and I see nothing so far thats compelling enough for me to switch back. Everyone who cares enough to take part in a debate like this are at different places with Linux, Windows, OSX or what have you. Linux has proven itself on the desktop to me years ago, so it's actually Microsoft that has to do the proving to this person, that with an expensive product, they can give me something so much better than what I already get for free. They have not done this.

[merkourio]

I'm sorry, but I've been testing the beta's as well, and I fail to see whats so great about it. It's really not hard for an OS to be better than Vista, and it has nothing to do with a fear of killing linux.

Comparing Windows 7 to Windows Vista, or even Windows XP is a pretty shallow debate. I Don't really care if an OS in 2009 blows the doors off an OS that came out in 2001 FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER. I would hope to shout that it is. I expect this. The fact that Microsoft has struggled to give this to PC users is the bigger problem. They've lost a sense of valued direction with their product. I care about how windows 7 compares with its competition and I see nothing so far thats compelling enough for me to switch back. Everyone who cares enough to take part in a debate like this are at different places with Linux, Windows, OSX or what have you. Linux has proven itself on the desktop to me years ago, so it's actually Microsoft that has to do the proving to this person, that with an expensive product, they can give me something so much better than what I already get for free. They have not done this.

Dear Toupeiro,
I have to agree ABSOLUTELY!!
YOU got my point, and I got yours!
Have a nice day!

[merkourio]

Just downloaded the RC and fired it in Virtual Box..
The installation seemed to be quite ok, although it kept freezing and was veeery slow.
After that I saw the default wallpaper (a fish), and tough woow, that's nice, but got bored after about 15 seconds of it. Although I gave it 2GB Base memory the sys was sticking and was veeeeeery slow.

On the other hand, I LOVED the new shiny start menu icon!

After all, it's just windows...

[glotz]

a lot of hype over Windows 7

me, excited about it
Windows 7 is exciting
excited about it
Windows 7 is kind of exciting
I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.

The only thing I'm afraid of here is you getting overly excited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)#Intentional_repetition_of_mea ning).

[k2t0f12d]

I wonder how long it is going to be before Stardock releases a beta of Windowblinds 7.If Win7 is so easily to customize, for what then is Windowblinds needed?

[3rdalbum]

Notice that Microsoft didn't actually "fix" any of the "problems" complained about from Vista?

1. Outrageous system requirements: Windows 7's system reqs are higher
2. UAC: Still there in Windows 7, only less secure now
3. Program and driver incompatibility from XP: Windows 7 only runs the programs and drivers that could run on Vista
4. It looks different to XP: Well, Windows 7 looks different again.

The actual, real problems with Vista were fixed in SP1. For instance, file copying.

Once the mainstream gets its hands on Windows 7, there will be complaints about it. Some people won't like it, some will. Those who don't like it will give Linux a try. A couple of features from Windows 7 seem to be kind of useful, so that gives us higher standards to achieve too.

Frankly, if you switch from Linux to Windows 7, then you never really liked Linux anyway. The benefits of Linux, and the disadvantages of Windows, remain.

[dspari1]

I've recently loaded Windows 7 on my mother's laptop to see what she thought about it. It ended with her hating it because it was too "different" and immediately had me put XP back. She specifically told me she doesn't want to relearn how to use the computer all over again.

I asked my father (who is a Director of a power company) about Windows 7. After trying Windows 7, he is convinced that it will fail in the same way that Office 2007 did. He echoed that it is too "different", and that the cost of retraining everyone to use Windows 7 as efficiently as Windows XP with the added problem of software incompatibility of specialized software will very likely prevent most companies from upgrading to Windows 7.

I also noticed that netbooks with Windows XP are being marketed with this exact same mentality:

www.itsbetterwithwindows.com

"Windows helps you quickly and easily get online and connect to your devices and services - without dealing with an unfamiliar environment
or major compatibility issues."

Finally, I doubt that Linux will lose any market share due to Windows 7 because Linux users use Linux for a reason, and it still beats Windows 7 in the areas of security, customization, and price.

With that said, Windows 7 should be very successful in the gaming segment since it will be the first stable operating system to support Direct X 10.

[forrestcupp]

The only thing I'm afraid of here is you getting overly excited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)#Intentional_repetition_of_mea ning).

Well, you don't need to worry about me. I do a good enough job of that.


It amazes me how many Linux enthusiasts have bashed me for trying to be sympathetic to Linux enthusiasts. I honestly wrote the original post with a good heart.

I am not personally into the Win7 hype. I tried it out, and it didn't take long to get rid of it and go back to Vista for my Windows needs. I liked 7, but it was too buggy on my machine, which exceeds the requirements by a lot. I probably won't even mess with the final release. I'll save that for if I ever buy a new computer.

[merkourio]

I know it's bit offtopic, but do you know what I realised?
As time goes by Windows boot times are getting longer end looonger!
But I you see Ubuntu, or any other distro of Linox, or even Mac OS, this time is getting almost unnoticable!

[pwnst*r]

he is convinced that it will fail in the same way that Office 2007 did.

lol, how exactly did 07 fail again? please refresh my memory.

[rookcifer]

There is a lot of hype over Windows 7 right now, even in a forum for Linux. At any time, you probably can look on the front page of the Cafe and see at least 2 threads about Windows 7 with some bashing Microsoft and some, including me, excited about it. Windows 7 is exciting because it appears to be the first worthwhile OS offering that Microsoft has put out for a long time.

But in the midst of this excitement and all of the Linux users that we see who are excited about it, there is no need to fear. Windows 7 will not kill Linux or Ubuntu, and it will not draw away the masses. There's something about Linux that once you've used it and had a good experience with it, you can never get it out of your system. It's also exciting to watch how fast things advance in the Linux world. So, even though Windows 7 is kind of exciting, I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.

Besides, even if a bunch of people jump on the free RC bandwagon, most of them will be back next March when it starts shutting down every 2 hours. :)


I don't think any of us Linux users are "scared" of anything M$ does. (Well, we are scared in the sense we are fearful of what Windows users will have to go through with M$ products. But this is pity more than anything).

[forrestcupp]

I don't think any of us Linux users are "scared" of anything M$ does. (Well, we are scared in the sense we are fearful of what Windows users will have to go through with M$ products. But this is pity more than anything).

Believe it or not, I wrote that first post because of several posts people were making at that time. I saw that there were several people who did seem to be freaking out, so out of a good heart, I wrote a word of comfort to those people. Now from all of the beating I've gotten from the Linux hard heads, I kind of wish I never would have written those things.

But now the hype on these forums about Windows 7 is mostly over, so this thread doesn't really apply anymore.

[zekopeko]

i'm using the windows 7 RC and i have to say that it's great! really nice and smooth. simple to use and polished all around.
from reading parts of this thread i'm rather disappointed at the level of discussion here.

to all of you "M$" people out there: just because you use a different operating system doesn't mean that you are better in anyway.


Notice that Microsoft didn't actually "fix" any of the "problems" complained about from Vista?

1. Outrageous system requirements: Windows 7's system reqs are higher
2. UAC: Still there in Windows 7, only less secure now
3. Program and driver incompatibility from XP: Windows 7 only runs the programs and drivers that could run on Vista
4. It looks different to XP: Well, Windows 7 looks different again.

The actual, real problems with Vista were fixed in SP1. For instance, file copying.

Once the mainstream gets its hands on Windows 7, there will be complaints about it. Some people won't like it, some will. Those who don't like it will give Linux a try. A couple of features from Windows 7 seem to be kind of useful, so that gives us higher standards to achieve too.

Frankly, if you switch from Linux to Windows 7, then you never really liked Linux anyway. The benefits of Linux, and the disadvantages of Windows, remain.

1. windows 7 works as good as WinXP on this machine if not better. and i'm pretty sure that it works better then Ubuntu on this machine as well (was a while since i had ubuntu on this machine)
2. UAC does it's job just as gksudo does in ubuntu.
3. If you didn't port your app to vista/7 in this 3 years you can still use the XPM mode.
4.It took me a whole 1min to get used to the "new" interface. and i went from xp to 7.

and the mainstream loves windows 7. why? because it works and you can see that they built a nice piece of software.


I don't think any of us Linux users are "scared" of anything M$ does. (Well, we are scared in the sense we are fearful of what Windows users will have to go through with M$ products. But this is pity more than anything).

i pity you for being so chauvinistic and not even knowing it.

[dspisak]

I just want to chime in here to say that I see only minor differences between xpPro, Win7RC , and ubuntu. However, Linux appears to use somewhat less memory. I am not very worried about M'soft monitoring my computer. There appear to be some switches buried in Windows where one can minimize this feature. I will have to have a version of Windows on my computer for AutoCAD, Netflix, and Cycling.tv - until suitable linux alternatives are available.

Yes, ubuntu is wonderful - maybe was wonderful. The "upgrade" from 8.10 to 9.04 has made it useless on my computer because of the freezing problem. I get only several minutes of use until the computer freezes (clock stops, mouse and keyboard do not work) and I have to reboot. I will try to revert to an earlier kernel to see if that works. If not, then goodby ubuntu.

My computer hangs 1) when I move a window by grabbing the title bar with the mouse, 2)when moving the vertical scroll bar, 3) moving the mouse pointer slowly close to the scroll bar.

[crl0901]

I think people are buying into the system requirements way too much. I've got the WIndows 7 RC installed on an IBM T40 with only 768MB RAM, and it runs perfectly. It's quick and responsive, and even though it can't do the translucent Windows stuff, it still looks great.

[forrestcupp]

3. If you didn't port your app to vista/7 in this 3 years you can still use the XPM mode.
I agree with most of the things you said. I even agree with the sentiment that most software and drivers should have been updated to Vista compatibility by now.

But XPM mode is a crock of horse manure. I have a Core2Duo processor and it won't support hardware accelerated virtualization, so I can't use XPM. It doesn't matter, anyway, because XPM is just basically the same as running XP in vmware. You're limited with the same limitations as any other virtual machine. And also, you have to have a legitimate license of XP to even be able to install XPM. Also, it's only available in the Ultimate version. VirtualBox and vmWare are available to anyone.

I agree with almost everything else you said good about 7, but XPM is not something that I believe should be bragged about.

[t0p]

While we're on the subject of 7: can someone point me in the right direction to find a download of the netbook edition of 7? (I'm assuming there is actually a netbook edition).

[zekopeko]

While we're on the subject of 7: can someone point me in the right direction to find a download of the netbook edition of 7? (I'm assuming there is actually a netbook edition).

there isn't.

[dspari1]

lol, how exactly did 07 fail again? please refresh my memory.

It failed because most companies have been sticking with 2003 and opted out of upgrading.

[merkourio]

It failed because most companies have been sticking with 2003 and opted out of upgrading.
...and it was a too big change!

[pwnst*r]

It failed because most companies have been sticking with 2003 and opted out of upgrading.

i work for one of the largest retailers in the country. no fail here.