AMD vs. nForce

[b@sh_n3rd]

Hi...I really don't like to drag this on. But I got stuck at this point after my previous thread. I'm wondering, if it's best to buy a mobo with an AMD 7 series chipset OR an NVIDIA nForce chipset for a system powered by an AMD Phenom II 955. Furthermore, between ASUS and FOXCONN, which would you recommend? Oh yeah, I may try some overclocking too.

Any help :(? Thanks.

[Deamos]

Hi...I really don't like to drag this on. But I got stuck at this point after my previous thread. I'm wondering, if it's best to buy a mobo with an AMD 7 series chipset OR an NVIDIA nForce chipset for a system powered by an AMD Phenom II 955. Furthermore, between ASUS and FOXCONN, which would you recommend? Oh yeah, I may try some overclocking too.

Any help :(? Thanks.

Honestly, I am a fan with the nForce Chipsets. I have never personally dealt with the AMD 7 series chipset, however, Nvidia does make a solid chipset and I have never had a problem with them. Also, I would recommend Asus over Foxconn. Asus is a VERY solid motherboard manufacturer.

As for OC, I've heard the Phenom CPUs are awesome for it. Just keep in mind cooling and you should be fine.

Best of luck on the Phenom!

[rickyjones]

I personally prefer nForce. Also never had an issue with them. Another vote for ASUS motherboards.

Thanks,
Richard

[mips]

Furthermore, between ASUS and FOXCONN, which would you recommend?


Gigabyte then Foxconn.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Thanks Deamos :D. So, nForce would be better? Isn't AMD good as well? What mostly puzzled me was AMD's recommendations. Yeah they WOULD promote their own stuff but if it's their own, it should work better right? Anyway, I checked out nForce some time ago and came up with the question of who makes their mobo's. Does NVIDIA make it themselves or is it someone like ASUS? The thing is, on the list of AM3 mobo's in ASUS' global site, THEY too have mobo's with nForce. Should I get the one directly from ASUS or from NVIDIA? I always thought FOXCONN was good....love the name though :D.

[Kizsde]

Thanks Deamos :D. So, nForce would be better? Isn't AMD good as well? What mostly puzzled me was AMD's recommendations. Yeah they WOULD promote their own stuff but if it's their own, it should work better right? Anyway, I checked out nForce some time ago and came up with the question of who makes their mobo's. Does NVIDIA make it themselves or is it someone like ASUS? The thing is, on the list of AM3 mobo's in ASUS' global site, THEY too have mobo's with nForce. Should I get the one directly from ASUS or from NVIDIA? I always thought FOXCONN was good....love the name though :D.
Hiya!

I got a Gigabyte mobo with nForce chipset and an AMD processor and they never had any issues with Ubuntu...if that's what you are curious about :)
Seems to me like a solid combination.

[Deamos]

Thanks Deamos :D. So, nForce would be better? Isn't AMD good as well? What mostly puzzled me was AMD's recommendations. Yeah they WOULD promote their own stuff but if it's their own, it should work better right? Anyway, I checked out nForce some time ago and came up with the question of who makes their mobo's. Does NVIDIA make it themselves or is it someone like ASUS? The thing is, on the list of AM3 mobo's in ASUS' global site, THEY too have mobo's with nForce. Should I get the one directly from ASUS or from NVIDIA? I always thought FOXCONN was good....love the name though :D.

Yeah, AMD usually recommends their own, however that does not mean it's better. nForce Chipsets seem to be more solid and much better supported than most. Also, keep in mind that AMD owns ATI. ATI is a competitor to NVIDIA. Plus, NVIDIA was working rather closely with Intel until this whole ION based platform lawsuit crap started.

As for the motherboards, Asus designs and manufactures the motherboards. They purchase the chipsets from whatever company they find. If you compare prices, usually the nForce based chipset mobos are more expensive. You do get what you pay for in this aspect. You're best bet for finding a good solid mobo is to look on newegg and find what you want. AM3 based mobos are new and not too many CPUs use them yet.

Foxconn is a big name mobo manufacturer, however I always will make the recommendation of Asus first.

[wirepuller134]

In our experience, we have had a lot of trouble with Foxconn products. We had them build us a custom motherboard for one of our products. In their defence these units run in not a perfect environment. They are mounted inside a nema 4 box with only the touch screen exposed. The temperature ranges they are exposed to is from 0 to 40 degrees, with up to 140'F water used for wash down. We had several issues with the pci and ram slots loosing connectivity after 2 months of use. We had more than enough service calls to reseat ram so fourth, and after a year changed contacted Asus, whom is our main supplier now. I have never used Foxconn in a home environment so this is based on our experience in a commercial environment. As far as the other question, we have only used nforce chipsets.

[Calmatory]

Ignorance has spoken yet again.

AMD 7xx series of chipset' gives the ability to use AMD OverDrive program which makes overclocking and system tweaking very simple. No more BIOS fiddling, everything can be done real time from Windows. Every CPU core clockspeed can be set seperately for example.

Nvidia's nForce chipset does not allow this. ;) Besides, the 7xx series chipset is less power hungry and indeed provides more features.

Now it is up to the motherboard(mainly BIOS) to support it all, so read reviews before you buy!

What is your budget? Don't buy yet, instead dig more info on the subject before buying!

[b@sh_n3rd]

Ignorance has spoken yet again.

AMD 7xx series of chipset' gives the ability to use AMD OverDrive program which makes overclocking and system tweaking very simple. No more BIOS fiddling, everything can be done real time from Windows. Every CPU core clockspeed can be set seperately for example.

Nvidia's nForce chipset does not allow this. ;) Besides, the 7xx series chipset is less power hungry and indeed provides more features.

Now it is up to the motherboard(mainly BIOS) to support it all, so read reviews before you buy!

What is your budget? Don't buy yet, instead dig more info on the subject before buying!

Hi Calmatory :D, You happen to provide some very informative posts where ever you go huh? and the strangest thing is....you read my mind. I AM actually thinking of AMD OverDrive...hmm...wonder why I didn't mention it... I was wondering how overclocking would go on nForce. And AMD's vid's with Intel don't mention nForce, it's always the AMD 790FX or 790GX. Wonder why they never mention nForce mobo's...oh yeah...question was already answered. Anyway, I do like to get the NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI and I liked it sooo much I even saw it in ma dreams :D. I even dreamed of overclocking...weird. The thing is, I was wondering if I get that awesome mobo, I'd have really cool performance and stuff but may have probs with OC. And, if i get AMD I'd have OC but might not have that much performance with vid. OK, I would be okay with vid but on Ubuntu i'll have a prob.

[Deamos]

Ignorance has spoken yet again.

AMD 7xx series of chipset' gives the ability to use AMD OverDrive program which makes overclocking and system tweaking very simple. No more BIOS fiddling, everything can be done real time from Windows. Every CPU core clockspeed can be set seperately for example.

Nvidia's nForce chipset does not allow this. ;) Besides, the 7xx series chipset is less power hungry and indeed provides more features.

Now it is up to the motherboard(mainly BIOS) to support it all, so read reviews before you buy!

What is your budget? Don't buy yet, instead dig more info on the subject before buying!

Interesting. I did not know much about the AMD Overdrive program as I do not OC too often. If I need to do some slight OCing, I use the nTune program in Windows to handle OC profiling.

[zakany]

I built my last system with an nForce chipset and I'll not make that mistake again. If you're not expecting to use the onboard RAID, go ahead - but Nvidia's RAID solution is terrible.

Oh, nTune is absolute garbage. If you're going to OC, do it in BIOS.

[b@sh_n3rd]

I built my last system with an nForce chipset and I'll not make that mistake again. If you're not expecting to use the onboard RAID, go ahead - but Nvidia's RAID solution is terrible.

Oh, nTune is absolute garbage. If you're going to OC, do it in BIOS.

Overclocking via BIOS scares me abit...AMD OverDrive kinda makes me feel comfortable. Like, even the GUI is really cool. So what you say is, unless I don't mind OC'ing via BIOS and not using RAID, I could use NVIDIA? Well, fair enough. The BIOS thingy is tricky and I might not use RAID...But, that still leaves nForce and AMD open in my list :D.

EDIT: Oh yeah, BTW, from the AMD 7xxx series, should I choose the AMD 790GX OR 790FX? Thanks for answering my never ending Q's...:D.

[Calmatory]

I guess 790FX. Does not matter that much really. What matters is the motherboard you choose. So please read reviews first! Just google the motherboard name + "review", if nothing comes up it is very possible that the motherboard isn't that known to the overclocking community, and as such it means it lacks overclocking potential.

[BuffaloX]

Many Asus motherboards have the Express gate feature, which I think is very cool.

Asus are usually very good quality, but don't go for "budget" versions with features stripped, usually the difference in price is minimal, but the difference in BIOS features for overclocking can be enormous.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Hi, thanks for the replies. OK, let's say I take ASUS. But, they happen to have an nForce mobo too. Come to think of it, the only prob with nForce is OC'ing via BIOS. Now, is that safe? I think i'll have to avoid experimenting the stress levels of my Phenom II via an nForce mobo. So as I see it, unless there's any other issue with either, i'll have to base my decision by thinking OC or no OC...Jeez now that's hard... And Calmatory, about the GX/FX thing, I thought GX was newer and stuff, that's where that Q came from...:D

[CharmyBee]

AMD 7xx motherboards have very good onboard sound also. Realtek ALC888 is actually the best computer sound i've ever heard, it made me abandon my old SB Live.

(Of course, those with $300+ professional grade sound cards will tell you otherwise, but for onboard audio it beats the pants off of nForce anyway)

[Skripka]

Overclocking via BIOS scares me abit...AMD OverDrive kinda makes me feel comfortable. Like, even the GUI is really cool. So what you say is, unless I don't mind OC'ing via BIOS and not using RAID, I could use NVIDIA? Well, fair enough. The BIOS thingy is tricky and I might not use RAID...But, that still leaves nForce and AMD open in my list :D.

EDIT: Oh yeah, BTW, from the AMD 7xxx series, should I choose the AMD 790GX OR 790FX? Thanks for answering my never ending Q's...:D.

RE: Overclocking

Overclocking SHOULD make you nervous, if not scare you. Learn EXACTLY what you are doing and WHY. It is possible to KILL a mainboard if you don't know what you are doing and start fiddling. Making overclocking easier inside Windows is VERY dangerous, as folks who have no business playing with a BIOS are tweaking the BIOS.

OC'ing is an art. It takes experimentation to find the sweet spot for your hardware mix for the apps you run. I OC my x3 core 720 @ 2.8gHz (stock), all the way up to 3.65gHz with 4 cores-and keep it stable for most tasks on air-cooling...some games under Windows (Fallout3) bluescreen after a bit, today I dialed it back to 3.5 today and that is solved....heck my tri core processor is MORE stable under ocerclock as an unlocked quadcore than as a tricore--because the CPU cores individually are not cranked as high.

How far you can verclock depends on your specific hardware combo. I had an MSI K9N Neo that would only OC 200mHz over stock, due to mainboard limits of voltage (I think).

RE:Chipset

It doesn't matter too much-unless you want to run arrays of GPUs in the future-then you need to pick your card maker then and there.

[b@sh_n3rd]

I'm thinking of buying a Phenom II 955 Black Edition @ 3.2GHz which wouldn't really need an OC but I MIGHT try it on the thing. Only prob is, cooling...im not sure of that...I've got a good climate here at home but nowadays it gets hot somewhere at noon especially when there's no rain. So, to fight about 32C I need a perfect cooling method or I woundn't bother about it. Irrelavent to this thread, did you know that the Phenom II has helped AMD break a world record at 6.5GHz?? love that vid :D. I felt tears in my eyes after that...it was cooled via liquid nitrogen and operated between -230 to -250C :D.

Oh yeah, Skripka, when you mention "folks that have no business messing around on the BIOS will be tweaking it" you mean others that mess around with the app? well...if that's so I suppose there's nothing to worry about coz all the others get bored of comps...I bore em to death...and TiTANIUM will only be touched by Adri...err...b@sh_n3rd :D. OK, others will use it but not "break" it...they'll have to face a mad irishman first :D.

[Skripka]

I'm thinking of buying a Phenom II 955 Black Edition @ 3.2GHz which wouldn't really need an OC but I MIGHT try it on the thing. Only prob is, cooling...im not sure of that...I've got a good climate here at home but nowadays it gets hot somewhere at noon especially when there's no rain. So, to fight about 32C I need a perfect cooling method or I woundn't bother about it. Irrelavent to this thread, did you know that the Phenom II has helped AMD break a world record at 6.5GHz?? love that vid :D. I felt tears in my eyes after that...it was cooled via liquid nitrogen and operated between -230 to -250C :D.

Oh yeah, Skripka, when you mention "folks that have no business messing around on the BIOS will be tweaking it" you mean others that mess around with the app? well...if that's so I suppose there's nothing to worry about coz all the others get bored of comps...I bore em to death...and TiTANIUM will be only touched by Adri...err...b@sh_n3rd :D.

My point is that if a user isn't comfortable fiddling in the BIOS or more importantly learning how and what and why, they have no business with hand-holding utilities that do the same thing. If you make it so your machine will no longer boot due to BIOS setting, be prepared to short the BIOS jumper over to reset and back to undo your handiwork--this procedure is why AMD Overclock and similar utilites are handy for people who know what they are doing, it saves having to tear a box apart to short a jumper and back.


Be warned that the PhenomII quads are hot running chips....Heck so were the Athlon 6400, as well as the Phenom I CPUs....the Phenom x3 is a 95W TDP-so I can crank it some.

I can run my box on air, because I keep the ambient temp in the room at or below 23C...also I use a Zalman cooler with Arctic Silver5. If your ambient environment is hot you cannot crank things up as far....IIRC PhenomII quads are 125W+ TDP with very little OCing room, on air compare with Intel quads that are 65W TDP or so. TDP tells you a good deal about what you can do with a CPU.

These high TDP CPUs were not made with tropical warmth climates in mind, they were made with server farm A/C environments in mind. Sure you can run them and crank them--but only if you keep the ambient temp low.

[b@sh_n3rd]

hmm...good point...Just my luck to be situated in a poorly ventilated space. When the doors/windows are closed at least. But, I CAN bring the temps down to about 26/27C if i'm lucky which still means i'll be limited. Pore TiTANIUM...:D. The thing is, I'm an admin for about 10PC's but im only a beginner to OC'ing, which is apparently unavailable on my pre-historic intel's. I can manage it though of course...

[Skripka]

hmm...good point...Just my luck to be situated in a poorly ventilated space. When the doors/windows are closed at least. But, I CAN bring the temps down to about 26/27C if i'm lucky which still means i'll be limited. Pore TiTANIUM...:D. The thing is, I'm an admin for about 10PC's but im only a beginner to OC'ing, which is apparently unavailable on my pre-historic intel's. I can manage it though of course...

The 955 Phenom II is a black edition-so all aspects of it are unlocked...but bear in mind that AMD 125W CPUs normally have a crit temp of only 65C or so before emergency shutdown.

FYI-To give you an idea, my 720 4 core Frankenstein CPU is basically a 955 (same Deneb core, same cache structure)...in a 21C environment with a few extra 1/20s of a Volt (for stability), it idles at ~30-32C....If I recall right-it defulats to 1.35V, but to get it stable I had to bump it up to 1.4ishV.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Ahuh...cool...well the X3 is taken by Die Harvesting right? in other words the 4th Core that isn't operating as intended is disabled and sold as a 3 core? Anyway, what you mean is the lower the wattage of the processor, the lower the temps? Fair enough....I wouldn't ALWAYS try to OC...OK, here's it straight out...I'm competing with a Core 2 Duo :D. The chaps all blue with TiTANIUM :D. A friend of mine, a gamer but no clue about comps...annoying at times though :D. Wanna show what a nerd can really do :D. The thing is, TiTANIUM will run great with the 955 but OC will provide an extra burst of power if ever I do need a boost. It's like re-tuning a car for a certain type of race :D.

[MikeTheC]

@ OP:

I have an eMachines W5243 which is an nForce system with an AMD 3800+ and I've not had a lick of trouble with it. Sure it isn't high-end (wasn't high end even when I bought it a year ago) but it's been a very solid performer. It's coped with WinVista (which it came with) with no issues as well as Ubuntu, Fedora or OpenSuSE, running (at one point or another) XFCE, Gnome or KDE.

For what I paid for this system ($399 IIRC) I couldn't be happier.

*uh oh*

$#()*#$>D)%

NO CARRIER

[b@sh_n3rd]

@ OP:

I have an eMachines W5243 which is an nForce system with an AMD 3800+ and I've not had a lick of trouble with it. Sure it isn't high-end (wasn't high end even when I bought it a year ago) but it's been a very solid performer. It's coped with WinVista (which it came with) with no issues as well as Ubuntu, Fedora or OpenSuSE, running (at one point or another) XFCE, Gnome or KDE.

For what I paid for this system ($399 IIRC) I couldn't be happier.

*uh oh*

$#()*#$>D)%

NO CARRIER

Yup, nForce is known to be very good. I've seen the quality alright and that's an nForce 4 I saw. Only prob is OC'ing :D. Ever seen the nForce 980a SLI? now that's hot! :D. If I didn't have a care in the world for OC'ing TiTANIUM whenever the situation demanded it, I'd have settled the accounts with that peice 'o metal :D.

[b@sh_n3rd]

OK, i've got two choices:

1. NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI (nForce chipset)
2. ASUS M4A78T-E (AMD 790GX chipset)

Any recommendations? Thanks.

[Calmatory]

The first one is chipset, the second one is an actual motherboard. ;)

Overclocking is safe nowadays. Breaking a component without touching the voltage settings is practically impossible for few reasons. First, the increased clockspeed won't do any real damage really. It will make the component hotter, but not so much that it would cause any damage.

Basically there is nothing to be scared of, as long as you are sure what you are doing. If you are unsure, use google and forums.

Everyone has started as a newbie, and the only way to gain experience is to experiment. So should you. ;)

[b@sh_n3rd]

Yeah...That really confused me. I have no clue as to what the model of that mobo is. On the NVIDIA site I checked out chipsets for AMD with socket AM3 and ended up with that mobo. Well, it shows a really cool mobo and provides "nForce 980a SLI"...quite confusing...here's the link for the NVIDIA mobo: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_nforce_980a_sli_us.html
The ASUS one has an intergrated ATI Radeon HD 3300...will I be able to get proprietary drivers to work on Ubuntu? Thanks.


Everyone has started as a newbie, and the only way to gain experience is to experiment. So should you. :wink:
yuP :D

[Calmatory]

Neither of AMD and Nvidia do not make motherboards, but they manufacture the chipsets for motherboard manufacturers to use in their motherboards.

How much would you be willing to spend on a motherboard?

[davidmb]

So far, I'm very happy with my nForce570SLI-based Gigabyte motherboard.
So, nForce better than AMD and Gigabyte better than both ASUS and Foxconn.

[Calmatory]

So far, I'm very happy with my nForce570SLI-based Gigabyte motherboard.
So, nForce better than AMD and Gigabyte better than both ASUS and Foxconn.

Unfortunately some people may actually believe that, just because you say so.

What if I say that I am happy with my MSI K9N Ultra, which has nForce 570 Ultra chipset, could I claim that MSI better than Gigabyte? ;)

There is no best manufacturer, it all comes down to actual products. Doesn't matter who makes the motherboard, many of them use quite much the same parts with different BIOS configurations. There are exceptions though.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Neither of AMD and Nvidia do not make motherboards, but they manufacture the chipsets for motherboard manufacturers to use in their motherboards.

How much would you be willing to spend on a motherboard?

Yeah..I know about ze chipset business. That's why I got confused with the NVIDIA mobo. Any way of finding the model and manufacturer, Calmatory? :D. I THINK it's ASUS, but not sure. Anyway...the price i'll be spending err..im not sure...but if mom/dad is willing to buy it...good for me :D. Actually, I thought first, ASUS then FOXCONN and I don't really like Gigabyte...I suppose coz I experienced a prob with a Gigabyte mobo on a system that belonged to a friend of my dad...:D Anyway gotta blast, another thunderstorm is approaching...dash the luck with these black outs...Electromagnetic Radiation cause some severe lightning conditions here...:(

[Calmatory]

My point is that if a user isn't comfortable fiddling in the BIOS or more importantly learning how and what and why, they have no business with hand-holding utilities that do the same thing. If you make it so your machine will no longer boot due to BIOS setting, be prepared to short the BIOS jumper over to reset and back to undo your handiwork--this procedure is why AMD Overclock and similar utilites are handy for people who know what they are doing, it saves having to tear a box apart to short a jumper and back.


Be warned that the PhenomII quads are hot running chips....Heck so were the Athlon 6400, as well as the Phenom I CPUs....the Phenom x3 is a 95W TDP-so I can crank it some.

I can run my box on air, because I keep the ambient temp in the room at or below 23C...also I use a Zalman cooler with Arctic Silver5. If your ambient environment is hot you cannot crank things up as far....IIRC PhenomII quads are 125W+ TDP with very little OCing room, on air compare with Intel quads that are 65W TDP or so. TDP tells you a good deal about what you can do with a CPU.

These high TDP CPUs were not made with tropical warmth climates in mind, they were made with server farm A/C environments in mind. Sure you can run them and crank them--but only if you keep the ambient temp low.

Ambient temperature has no real influence on anything. It does not matter if the CPU runs 50C or 70C as long as it is stable. Yes, the life span will be shorter if the CPU runs hotter, but rarely anyone uses the same CPU after 7-10 years.

TDP is meant for cooler manufacturers to make sure their cooler is able to handle the thermal load. In Phenom II's case, high TDP is to make sure that the CPU stays cool even if being overclocked. AMD actually used Phenom II's overclocking potential to market it. ;)

[b@sh_n3rd]

Well Calmatory, Skripka suggested a heatsink for me which I wouldn't doubt as it's able to keep a 720 cool at 3.65GHz. But do U have any recommendations for a 955? I wouldn't crank it up too much of course...Best thing to do is power up the PC in the balcony somewhere between Nov - Dec. haha, that'll freeze it enough :D. Only prob is the mist...:D

[b@sh_n3rd]

I checked out the ATI support section and found that the driver for the ATI Radeon HD 3300 is available for Linux x86 and x86-64. This oughta work right? Well I suppose so....It's quite a challenge to choose between two really good products :(...

[Calmatory]

Which heatsink was it? OCZ Vendetta II($50 at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835202007&Tpk=vendetta%202)) should be enough for sure. If not, then get Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. (A.k.a. TRUE) ;)

Then again, you can make your own conclusions: http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=917 ;)

Yes, the driver should work indeed. Don't you plan on getting external graphics card? Oh, and AMD OverDrive won't work on Linux, incase you are linux-only. :|

[b@sh_n3rd]

yuP...Ubuntu will be main OS but Vista will do the gaming...and i wouldn't need overclocking always...just when the situation demands it and when im experimenting...And thanks for the coolers i'll check on em :D.

[Skripka]

Ambient temperature has no real influence on anything. It does not matter if the CPU runs 50C or 70C as long as it is stable.

How do I put this politely, you're wrong.

So what you're saying is that if I'm on the beach on the Bahamas with a fan blowing over me, I'll be just as cool as if I was in an over-airconditioned office with a fan blowing over me?


The higher the ambitent temp, the higher the idle temp, the less room you have to push voltages up to increase stability under overclocking. The higher the ambient temp, the less efficient the CPU HSF is. It all matters-ewspecially when you're dealing with high TDP CPUs that have such low crit temps as high-clocked AMDs.

[Calmatory]

How do I put this politely, you're wrong.

So what you're saying is that if I'm on the beach on the Bahamas with a fan blowing over me, I'll be just as cool as if I was in an over-airconditioned office with a fan blowing over me?


The higher the ambitent temp, the higher the idle temp, the less room you have to push voltages up to increase stability under overclocking. The higher the ambient temp, the less efficient the CPU HSF is. It all matters-ewspecially when you're dealing with high TDP CPUs that have such low crit temps as high-clocked AMDs.
CPU temperature is in direct relation with case temperature, which then is in direct relation with the ambient temperature.

What this means is that under circumstances where the ambient temperature is 20 C, CPU idle is 34C and load 67C.
When the ambient temp rises 3C, all the temps will rise the same 3C over time.

Now, where do you see temperatures fluctuating over 5-10 C? Yes, it is possible(e.g. from Scandinavia to Australia) but in most cases this is not the case. Besides, the ambient temperature has nothing to do with the case as long as the temperatures are under certain limits.

The limits? As long as the computer is stable, I'd say. However, +70C for CPU and +90C for the GPU can be getting critical, but this is subjective.

CPU(and any other IC) power consumption (thus also the thermal power) increases more than linearly with the frequency. Now add the over volting, increase the voltage by 10 % and the power consumption will increase double that, 20 %. Add overclocking.

Now, there is an issue called electromigration (again, applies to all ICs), which basically occurs when high amount of current is being flown trough narrow paths(high resistance). Higher clock frequencies will cause more resistance, and higher voltage will cause more current. This deforms the molecular structure and eventually breaks it completely, and then the IC is dead. Temperature boosts this effect. The effect also boosts itself. Quite a nuisance with DRAM chips which usually die due to this.

[HappyFeet]

I use Gigabyte mobo with Nforce. Works great.

[zakany]

RE: Overclocking

Overclocking SHOULD make you nervous, if not scare you. Learn EXACTLY what you are doing and WHY. It is possible to KILL a mainboard if you don't know what you are doing and start fiddling. Making overclocking easier inside Windows is VERY dangerous, as folks who have no business playing with a BIOS are tweaking the BIOS.

I am much more comfortable OCing in BIOS than using a potentially buggy program to auto-guess settings!

It isn't technically challenging, really. Nvidia publishes nice guides that, while geared toward their own reference board designs, are a sufficient how-to for any motherboard.

The one characteristic an OCer must have is patience. Little tweaks, stress test, repeat. It probably takes me two or three hours to dial in a new system. At the first error, I usually back that parameter off a couple units to make up for dust collection. Better is when you see a knee in temperature - just back off to just before the temperature takes off.

Really, though, OCing isn't hard. Don't get caught up in the e-peen game. Who cares if Johnny was able to drive his Q6600 to 3.9 MHz on all cores? If yours is happy at 3.1, leave it at 3.1. For all you know, Johnny's machine can't run for more than fifteen minutes without crashing (or Johnny is a BSer...whatever). Clocking ain't nothin' without stability.

[Skripka]

2:guitar:

The limits? As long as the computer is stable, I'd say. However, +70C for CPU

Official documentation from AMD has 125W Phenom IIs as having a maximum temp of 62C in the case of the 955. This temp being measured on the center of the exterior of the CPU package at the CPU/HSF interface.

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

[Calmatory]

Official documentation from AMD has 125W Phenom IIs as having a maximum temp of 62C in the case of the 955. This temp being measured on the center of the exterior of the CPU package at the CPU/HSF interface.

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

Yes, this once again, is aimed for cooler designers. Bad case ventilation and dust will then cause the temperature to rise after years, and even still the cooler should be able to keep the CPU stable.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Hi guys...I checked up on the Phenom II 955 and apparently it seems too expensive to mess around with OC'ing. And that might only be safe on a cold day :(. Spitty. Anyway the price struck me a bit and apparently AM3 mobo's seem to be quite hard to come by. Seems like i'll have to import the two..:(...How's the ASUS M4A78T-E? That seems promising...

[Calmatory]

Temperatures won't be a problem, even the stock cooler is good enough to allow you to OC the CPU enough.

Just get the cheapest Quad Core CPU and OC it as much as possible(as in as long as it is stable). It is practically impossible to kill the CPU due to temperature or overclocking by accident, if not killing it by overvoltage.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Temperatures won't be a problem, even the stock cooler is good enough to allow you to OC the CPU enough.

Just get the cheapest Quad Core CPU and OC it as much as possible(as in as long as it is stable). It is practically impossible to kill the CPU due to temperature or overclocking by accident, if not killing it by overvoltage.

Really? I thought the processor is really killed by temps..well overvoltage makes sense :D. The thing is, over here the 955 costs about 23,500 bucks which is roughly USD. 207.23. I'm not sure of the current dollar rates though..anyway the processor price is freezing me and the mobo is like "n/a"...unavailable...the crazy dude that told the price of the chip showed a FOXCONN mobo that supports AM2+ and the official FOXCONN site shows only 2 mobo's that support AM3 and neither have support for any other socket or chip other than Phenom II's...

[Skripka]

Really? I thought the processor is really killed by temps..well overvoltage makes sense :D. The thing is, over here the 955 costs about 23,500 bucks which is roughly USD. 207.23. I'm not sure of the current dollar rates though..anyway the processor price is freezing me and the mobo is like "n/a"...unavailable...the crazy dude that told the price of the chip showed a FOXCONN mobo that supports AM2+ and the official FOXCONN site shows only 2 mobo's that support AM3 and neither have support for any other socket or chip other than Phenom II's...

Know that you can run an AM3 socket CPU in an AM2+ socket mainboard. It is intended to be possible....you won't get DDR3 via AM2+, but you'll still have a snappy CPU.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Doesn't AMD's warranty cite that processor's intended to be used on AM3 sockets, forced to be used on AM2/AM2+ and getting damaged would not be covered in the warranty? I read that on amd.com somewhere...

[Skripka]

Doesn't AMD's warranty cite that processor's intended to be used on AM3 sockets, forced to be used on AM2/AM2+ and getting damaged would not be covered in the warranty? I read that on amd.com somewhere...

I don't know why they would.

They made the AM3 socket CPUs with both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers built inside (for AM2+/AM3 compatability). They made the keyings on the AM3 CPUs such that they fit fine into AM2+ sockets, yet AM2+ CPUs will not fit AM3. It seems like they went out of their way to make it not only possible but easy. I don't know why it would void a warranty in and of itself.


I just checked the warranty with my CPU-it doesn't say anything to that effect. It actually explains the compatability.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Oh? If that's the case then I would've got muddled...That means If I use an AM3 Phenom II AM3, I could use it on a mobo with the AM2+ Socket? And the only difference between the two is that AM3 supports DDR3? Well then, Is there an advantage in seating an AMD Phenom II 955 into an AM2+ mobo without killing either? Like, cost advantage?

[b@sh_n3rd]

While checking out the two mobo's I've mentioned before on this thread, I discovered that drivers for the newer ATI Radeon's that are included with the mobo's are also available for Linux. NVIDIA on the other hand only mentions Microsoft so far. Would it be easier for me to buy the ASUS M4A78T-S with the built-in ATI Radeon HD 3300 and install that driver from the ATI official website, OR is it better to buy the NVIDIA mobo+chipset and install th X.Org binaries provided in the repo's?

[Skripka]

While checking out the two mobo's I've mentioned before on this thread, I discovered that drivers for the newer ATI Radeon's that are included with the mobo's are also available for Linux. NVIDIA on the other hand only mentions Microsoft so far. Would it be easier for me to buy the ASUS M4A78T-S with the built-in ATI Radeon HD 3300 and install that driver from the ATI official website, OR is it better to buy the NVIDIA mobo+chipset and install th X.Org binaries provided in the repo's?

Using the driver in the repos is always more simple...I remember the last time I tried running an ATi card a year ago), the idiots at ATi had written their Linux driver install script with commands not even used in Linux. ATi has a very long history of gawd-awful drivers going back many years, and not just on Linux but on Windows too. It has only been fairly recently that they shaped up and made their Windows driver very good and capable.

It always ends up at the classic ATi vs. Nvidia topic.

Once ATi has usable FOSS drivers, it will swing back to ATi on Linux...until then most folks on this board recommend Nvidia for Linux.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Hi Skripka, well could you recommend an ASUS mobo from this list? All of em support AM3 but they've gotta support the AMD Phenom II 955 and should have a normal VGA port used with these CRT monitors. Integrated video if possible. Hope I'm not bothering you. Thanks. http://www.asus.com/ProductGroup2.aspx?PG_ID=mKyCKlQ4oSEtSu5m

EDIT: Hey this list seems to work too, http://www.asus.com/ProductGroup2.aspx?PG_ID=mKyCKlQ4oSEtSu5m

[Skripka]

Hi Skripka, well could you recommend an ASUS mobo from this list? All of em support AM3 but they've gotta support the AMD Phenom II 955 and should have a normal VGA port used with these CRT monitors. Integrated video if possible. Hope I'm not bothering you. Thanks. http://www.asus.com/ProductGroup2.aspx?PG_ID=mKyCKlQ4oSEtSu5m

EDIT: Hey this list seems to work too, http://www.asus.com/ProductGroup2.aspx?PG_ID=mKyCKlQ4oSEtSu5m

2 things to ponder which cause annoyance for you in choosing:

1) VGA port...finding a current board which has one nowadays is hard. Most all the world has moved on to some form of DVI connector or HDMI. I would suggest looking into adapters for DVI->VGA, that will let you pick just about anything....I've never bothered with an adapter so I cannot speak for their useage.

2) On board video. This is only a problem as AMD socket motherboards with Nvidia chipsets are becoming an extinct species....and I personally don't want to bother with ATi drivers until they get their house in order on the Linux platform.

Of the ASUS offerings, most of the integrated graphics boards don't have very good layout geography...usually very cramped PCi/PCiE slots, as well as wierdly placed IDE headers, and non-right-angle SATA headers....these may or may not matter...but in building it is things like these that oppotentially can make your cabling turn into a rats nest. I kinda like the M4N78Pro of these the most....of course it only supports DDR2 and has an AM2+ socket-but you should be able to run an AM3 CPU on it fine.

If I was going to shop ASUS, and have a dedicated GPU I would go more for the ASUS M4A78T-E--due to better spacing geography of the PCi/PCiE rails. It also wouldn't run quite as warm due to higher phase power handling....same potential issue with IDE headers. This board sports DDR3 and has an AM3 socket.

Remember-odds are USB3 will be coming out in 8-12 months...so you'll be needing room for an expansion card if you want in on that game.

Happy shopping, you have to weigh lots of variables in shopping for a mainboard. Again, my priorities and biases may not be yours. Lots of folks make good mainboards besides ASUS too, if you find the ASUS selections too limiting. It is your money buy something you want, and will do all of what you want-there's a wide enough selection out there you should be able to find exactly what you are looking for.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Thanks...I'll look into it...Is GIGABYTE good? And how about FOXCONN? with an AM3 or AM2+ socket that is. I've got links to FOXCONN but I didn't check GIGABYTE coz I really dunno much about it...

[Malakai]

7 series no question. The 790GX or 790FX paired with a SB750 chipset is the only way to run a Phenom 2 IMO.

Fast, tweakable, stable, and great system power savings with the SB750.

Nvidia has made some nice chipsets in the past (I loved my nforce2, tho not like I love my current 790gx) but right now it is AMDs game. I still love the competition, keeping prices down for the win!

[b@sh_n3rd]

7 series no question. The 790GX or 790FX paired with a SB750 chipset is the only way to run a Phenom 2 IMO.

Fast, tweakable, stable, and great system power savings with the SB750.

Nvidia has made some nice chipsets in the past (I loved my nforce2, tho not like I love my current 790gx) but right now it is AMDs game. I still love the competition, keeping prices down for the win!

Yeah, I think I'd go with an ASUS powered by an AMD 7xxx chipset...Thanks for the tip :D...I do like AMD, it's just that I was worried about ATI drivers, but now I don't mind it coz I tried Jaunty on quite a powerful system and got some experience in how to setup video in Ubuntu...As long as my system will be fast as Ubuntu is, I don't mind :D...

[helliewm]

Gigabyte. When Bigken (from these forums, I met him through these forums:D he lives down the road from me:D) built my PC at the end of last year, we went with Gigabyte as there is whole load of blurb on their web site about Linux. Gigabyte seems to be very Linux friendly. I am 100% Linux have been for 3 years now so this was an extremely important factor.

Its an excellent mobo I would now always go with Gigabyte.

Helen

Ps Bigken did say he had once had a Foxconn mobo that did not like Ubuntu. I am sure it was Foxconn. Can't check that I think he is away in Sunderland at the moment.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Gigabyte. When Bigken (from these forums, I met him through these forums:D he lives down the road from me:D) built my PC at the end of last year, we went with Gigabyte as there is whole load of blurb on their web site about Linux. Gigabyte seems to be very Linux friendly. I am 100% Linux have been for 3 years now so this was an extremely important factor.

Its an excellent mobo I would now always go with Gigabyte.

Helen

Ps Bigken did say he had once had a Foxconn mobo that did not like Ubuntu. I am sure it was Foxconn. Can't check that I think he is away in Sunderland at the moment.

Hi, I've experienced a prob on a friend's PC with a Gigabyte mobo...after that I hesitate to buy Gigabyte mobo's. I very nearly selected Foxconn too..:D..close call...
Dude, you oughta SEE the ASUS M4A78T-E...it's soo cool...reminds me of "OPTIMUS-PRIME" in 'TRANSFORMERS' :D...

[starcannon]

AMD CPU's
Nforce Chipsets
Asus Motherboards
Nvidia GPU's

Thats usually a very solid combo imo

[HappyFeet]

Hi, I've experienced a prob on a friend's PC with a Gigabyte mobo...after that I hesitate to buy Gigabyte mobo's.

Every manufacturer will produce a bad part once in a while. No company is perfect. A friend of mine had a bad Seagate hard drive once. Does it mean I will never use one? No. Seagate is my favorite.

Asus also produces duds once in a while. Just check the reviews on newegg if you don't believe me.

I stick with Gigabyte because it has always worked for me.

[b@sh_n3rd]

Yeah...point taken :D...Gigabyte looks..err...oldish? hehe...I like ASUS' OC'ing options though...