PDA

View Full Version : Back to Ubuntu, goodbye Mint



Scotty Bones
May 3rd, 2009, 04:13 AM
After Clem's (creator of linux mint) little anti-Israeli rant,found here (http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=773), I decided to take his advice and stop using mint. I am now back to Ubuntu full time.

Will anyone else be considering dropping Mint?

Saint Angeles
May 3rd, 2009, 04:17 AM
wait, who launched thousands of missles into israel?

oack
May 3rd, 2009, 04:17 AM
Is Mint not created by an Irish fella?

Sashin
May 3rd, 2009, 04:19 AM
I have no idea what he's talking about, but I've never used mint anyway.

SunnyRabbiera
May 3rd, 2009, 04:22 AM
I am not a big fan of Israel either, despite being half Jewish.
But I am not a big fan of Palastine either, both need to just phase out so that peace and sanity can set foot.

lisati
May 3rd, 2009, 04:25 AM
Other than food which includes mint, I've never used it.

CharmyBee
May 3rd, 2009, 04:29 AM
Nice and real mature, using a operating system blog to push their own political agenda on as a vehicle. That'll keep people interested in Mint's future.

pbpersson
May 3rd, 2009, 04:33 AM
I wish he would have given more information in that post. For those of us who are geeks writing code down in their computers and have no idea what he is talking about, his few short words make no sense.

I have not used Mint much but I have admired it from afar. Associating a distribution with some political outlook is in my opinion unwise.

67GTA
May 3rd, 2009, 04:33 AM
WOW:shock: That is going to cause a fire storm. Even if you agree/disagree with Clem's position, that wasn't a smart move. Does this mean that any Judao religious people aren't welcome to use Mint?

EDIT: I guess that means I'm not supposed to help answer anymore unanswered questions on their forums then?

days_of_ruin
May 3rd, 2009, 04:40 AM
Wow. Don't use linux mint but I sure will not ever now.
Anyone have a link to his previous post on this?

garythegoth
May 3rd, 2009, 05:00 AM
Huh? What the hell has Linux Mint got to do with Israel?

Old Marcus
May 3rd, 2009, 05:02 AM
Well, I disagree with Clem entirely, thus I will carry on using Mint to spite him. :)

Kareeser
May 3rd, 2009, 05:04 AM
Huh? What the hell has Linux Mint got to do with Israel?

Agreed... his disjointed blog post didn't explain to me what exactly the US did that caused him to stop using Mint.

Is the US Army using Linux Mint now? That'd be pretty cool, actually.

Maybe the creators of Linux Mint are donating money to the US Army?

Old Marcus
May 3rd, 2009, 05:06 AM
No, he doesn't want people who don't agree with his stance on Israel to use Mint or donate money to him.

garythegoth
May 3rd, 2009, 05:06 AM
Agreed... his disjointed blog post didn't explain to me what exactly the US did that caused him to stop using Mint.

Is the US Army using Linux Mint now? That'd be pretty cool, actually.

Maybe the creators of Linux Mint are donating money to the US Army?

I really dont understand this, care to explain in simple terms so that my tired eyes may comprehend?

Zoowey
May 3rd, 2009, 05:06 AM
The guy has his own personal life, beliefs and thoughts and just because he develops something doesn't mean all of a sudden he can't express himself.

It's not as if Linux Mint shows the message "To hell with Israel" whenever you boot it up. He has the right to have his own opinions about things, as long as he doesn't directly involve Linux Mint with his political/personal views then I have no problem with what he thinks.

garythegoth
May 3rd, 2009, 05:07 AM
The guy has his own personal life, beliefs and thoughts and just because he develops something doesn't mean all off a sudden he can't express himself.

It's not as if Linux Mint shows the message "To hell with Israel" whenever you boot it up. He has the right to have his own opinions about things, as long as he doesn't directly involve Linux Mint with his political/personal views then I have no problem with what he thinks.

So the Mint guy hates Israel?

schauerlich
May 3rd, 2009, 05:08 AM
Code has no religious or political affiliation. What difference does it make?

Old Marcus
May 3rd, 2009, 05:12 AM
He's using Mint as a soapbox by asking those who don't support Palestine anywhere in the world to not use Mint. Thus he has involved the distro in a political veiwpoint.

days_of_ruin
May 3rd, 2009, 05:13 AM
Code has no religious or political affiliation. What difference does it make?

Because he just politicized a distro.
How would you feel if you were a developer who worked on linux
mint and now you aren't welcome because of your political views?
Also using Linux Mint is now a political statement.

garythegoth
May 3rd, 2009, 05:14 AM
He's using Mint as a soapbox by asking those who don't support Palestine anywhere in the world to not use Mint. Thus he has involved the distro in a political veiwpoint.

Wow, hes asking about 0.08% percent of the worlds computer users to abandon his distro based on his beliefs of a pointless war?
How dumb.

schauerlich
May 3rd, 2009, 05:17 AM
Because he just politicized a distro.
How would you feel if you were a developer who worked on linux
mint and now you aren't welcome because of your political views?
Also using Linux Mint is now a political statement.

A developer blew off some steam on his blog. Does that make his code any less valid? Does Linux Mint suddenly not work just because a developer disagrees with you? It really makes no difference.

days_of_ruin
May 3rd, 2009, 05:21 AM
A developer blew off some steam on his blog. Does that make his code any less valid? Does Linux Mint suddenly not work just because a developer disagrees with you? It really makes no difference.

I meant if you were a developer who did not agree with Clems views.
I don't think it would be fun to work with someone who just dissed your political views.

Open source projects are all about communities, and Clems post just poisoned the LM community.

visionaire
May 3rd, 2009, 05:21 AM
I agree with what he says, but i don't use mint anyway, but the truth is the truth here and in Jupiter

Bölvağur
May 3rd, 2009, 05:31 AM
Also using Linux Mint is now a political statement.
no. it only becomes it if you stop ignoring him... if everyone ignores him it will all be good.

Lets make an example with reverse situation. A statement from Detroit saying that everyone that drives an american car is a supporter of freedom. That confusing statement will and should not make anyone stop driving cars that will not end up outside of the road after attempting to take a sharp turn and surely no one will begin to suspect you to be a freedom hater.

Isn't there an ignor or mute button somewhere?

my spidy senses tell me that the thread might get closed :-$

MikeTheC
May 3rd, 2009, 05:48 AM
Nice and real mature, using a operating system blog to push their own political agenda on as a vehicle. That'll keep people interested in Mint's future.

Sadly, a lot of people in this world are stupid enough to bring politics and mindless hatred into situations where they don't belong. As a parallel example (God's honest truth, not making it up) I was in #scribus tonight and I had the authors of this book on Scribus (http://www.amazon.com/Scribus-Open-Source-Publishing-Christoph-Sch%C3%A4fer/dp/0956078001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241325870&sr=8-1) decide to be arrogant with me, and then when I told them one of the actually successful projects I used Scribus for, I was attacked on a political basis. Both authors are (supposedly) Ph.D.-carrying gentlemen, so I asked the one who decided to attack me why he should expect it to be alright to be insulting with those who don't share his worldview.

No response what-so-ever.

Guess getting one's doctoral degree doesn't mean you're actually smart, does it? :shock:

garythegoth
May 3rd, 2009, 05:52 AM
Sadly, a lot of people in this world are stupid enough to bring politics and mindless hatred into situations where they don't belong. As a parallel example (God's honest truth, not making it up) I was in #scribus tonight and I had the authors of this book on Scribus (http://www.amazon.com/Scribus-Open-Source-Publishing-Christoph-Sch%C3%A4fer/dp/0956078001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241325870&sr=8-1) decide to be arrogant with me, and then when I told them one of the actually successful projects I used Scribus for, I was attacked on a political basis. Both authors are (supposedly) Ph.D.-carrying gentlemen, so I asked the one who decided to attack me why he should expect it to be alright to be insulting with those who don't share his worldview.

No response what-so-ever.

Guess getting one's doctoral degree doesn't mean you're actually smart, does it? :shock:

Maybe the didnt consider your question worthy of answering?

MikeTheC
May 3rd, 2009, 06:00 AM
Maybe the didnt consider your question worthy of answering?

No, my question was answered, and the solution worked just fine. Sorry to disappoint you if you thought otherwise. :)

ryno519
May 3rd, 2009, 06:01 AM
So the Mint guy hates Israel?

The blog post that was linked makes no such claim. The only mention of Israel at all is when he asks Israeli's not to contribute to the project. This strikes me as odd considering not all Israeli citizens agree with what the Israeli government is doing and have taken no direct action in it. The post does not mention a hate of Israel or Israeli's, however.

overdrank
May 3rd, 2009, 06:03 AM
Maybe this is best discussed in the mint forums. :)

jowilkin
May 3rd, 2009, 06:10 AM
I stopped using Mint because they modified the google search bar in firefox and opera to point to a mint version of google that lacks a large number of features compared to the standard google search bar. They did this to generate revenue at the expense of usability.

Considering the distribution is nothing more than Ubuntu with a skin for the most part I think this is rediculous.

Maybe I should make a nice skin for Ubuntu and then redirect its useful features to advertisements so that I can quit my job and live off the ads full time like Clem did...

HappyFeet
May 3rd, 2009, 06:19 AM
The guy has his own personal life, beliefs and thoughts and just because he develops something doesn't mean all off a sudden he can't express himself.

It's not as if Linux Mint shows the message "To hell with Israel" whenever you boot it up. He has the right to have his own opinions about things, as long as he doesn't directly involve Linux Mint with his political/personal views then I have no problem with what he thinks.

Well said.

tubezninja
May 3rd, 2009, 06:23 AM
A developer blew off some steam on his blog. Does that make his code any less valid? Does Linux Mint suddenly not work just because a developer disagrees with you? It really makes no difference.


It doesn't, normally. Code that is or claims to be open source, in my opinion anyway, really shouldn't be used as a tool for political demagoguery

Most unfortunately, clem did exactly that:


If you do not agree I kindly ask you not to use Linux Mint and not to donate money to it.

He's most certainly entitled to his opinion, and I'm most certainly entitled to my opinion that his actions are petty and lack maturity. Telling someone they're not welcome to use an allegedly free and open source product because you disagree with them politically is like telling someone that if they didn't vote for their country's more liberal candidates in the last election, then they are not welcome to use Ubuntu, and we just don't want your kind around here.

Where is the line drawn? What level of software-based segregation is this guy going to try and implement next week? Who else just isn't worthy or good enough to use Mint?


The guy has his own personal life, beliefs and thoughts and just because he develops something doesn't mean all off a sudden he can't express himself.

I think placing implied political restrictions on who can use code released under GNU/GPL might go a bit beyond "expressing himself." But that's just me.

amingv
May 3rd, 2009, 06:59 AM
It isn't likely he'll ban Israel IP addresses from the FTP servers, and even if he did he couldn't possibly ban them from bittorrent.

My bet would be most Israel supporters who use mint will most likely continue using it without noticing it, as for developers, the project doesn't seem to have a lot of Israeli devs to begin with.

I'm not saying it's a smart/mature/correct decision to make (on the contrary), just that we're giving it too much thought. I'd use mint if it serves my purposes (I don't use it on a daily basis) the same way racist white people may use ubuntu without realizing it's philosophy is based on ideals of the people they deem inferior.

Mint is just a compilation of GNU software/proprietary software/linux kernel. The modifications, patches and bugfixes he includes in mint may very well make it upstream (right in the ubuntu repos, for example, which they use), so you may be running a "minted" ubuntu right now with many lines of code written by this very person (that's if he really develops that much for mint anyway).

Polygon
May 3rd, 2009, 07:09 AM
does mint even contain any custom code? isnt it just ubuntu with restricted stuff installed by default and a few other small cosmetic changes?

anyway, not a smart move posting your political views on a development blog. He gets whatever comes to him.

Orlsend
May 3rd, 2009, 07:11 AM
Its Sad how the topics I hate get into places I love.

though this guy made a clear point

"I hate this topic but…
I threw rocks at a hornet’s nest once and would you believe they actually stung me!
It couldn’t be my own damn fault!
Could it?"

Israel could be the meanest jerk in the world,but you loose the right to complaint as soon as you mess with it.

sertse
May 3rd, 2009, 07:32 AM
does mint even contain any custom code? isnt it just ubuntu with restricted stuff installed by default and a few other small cosmetic changes?


Mint has custom code; several interface changes iirc, like the mintMenu, mintInstall etc...

Though if the implicit argument is that "Mint isn't a real distro", it doesn't hold up when, apparently (and I know it's skewed) on DW rankings Mint beats Fedora, Debian, Mandriva and every other known distro aside from Suse and Ubuntu in popularity. People are the final deciders and that alone qualifies it.

RichardLinx
May 3rd, 2009, 07:40 AM
I don't use Mint (though I have previously) but what he said doesn't effect me. I will not stop using something that is supposed to be free just because someone has there ideals mixed up. I don't have much clue as to what he's talking about but something tells me he's the typical "watch the news and base opinion off one view" type person. If this forum wasn't against intelligent discussion (Political and Religious at least) this would have made a more interesting topic.

dspari1
May 3rd, 2009, 08:18 AM
I'm not a Mint user(I'm a Sabayon user), but I have recommended it to other people over Ubuntu due to it having a more complete out of the box experience.

I don't care that he used his blog to make a political statement, but to ask all his users who disagree with him to not use his product is crossing a fine line. I don't like what's going on in the middle east either, but he's effectively discriminating against every Jewish person by making such a request. To me, that's unfair towards Jewish people. No single civilization on earth is untainted with blood. so if it were up to that alone, no one should be using Mint.

Good luck to all Mint users that feel bad about this, and I hope you find the right distribution to replace it.

hyperdude111
May 3rd, 2009, 08:23 AM
I misread his statement.

gn2
May 3rd, 2009, 09:15 AM
I don't use Mint but have done in the past.
So it's lead developer outlines his opinions on a topic irrelevant to the software itself, big deal.
Who cares what his political views are?

Let's face it are we bothered that our distro uses a former terrorist and leader of a communist organisation in our publicity material?
Are republican voters in the USA and tories here in the UK all of a sudden going to start dropping Ubuntu?

I think not.

Clem's rant and the reaction to it is just an irrelevant storm in a teacup and I doubt it will stop Mint being popular.

pbpersson
May 3rd, 2009, 10:21 AM
Clem's rant and the reaction to it is just an irrelevant storm in a teacup and I doubt it will stop Mint being popular.

I am hoping everyone can just forget about it after a while

bigbrovar
May 3rd, 2009, 11:18 AM
Why i agree with clem on this issue, how ever he never said anything against the Isaeli people but just condemns the actions of their governments which is unfair to the people of Palestine why the world stood by and watch. I condemn Hamas too for sending Rockets to Israel but you have to admit that one Israel Rocket has killed more innocent people in Palestine compared to 3000 Hamas Rockets. for me that is just unacceptable. the Truth is the Truth. Clem would have done the same for black South Africans Under the then Apartheid Government