PDA

View Full Version : The kids of today. Need to plain grow up.



dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 03:12 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?

billgoldberg
May 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM
Kids have always been like this.

But in todays day and age they get away with it, so they keep doing it.

saulgoode
May 2nd, 2009, 03:23 PM
What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? - Plato ca. 400 BC

FlyingIsFun1217
May 2nd, 2009, 03:32 PM
Can't speak for all of *my generation*, but I hate when people put me in that generalization. I don't really do any of that, and find no need to.

Way I see it, the kids doing this sure aren't going to get anywhere, and I'm not someone who wants to be content with life as it is.

FlyingIsFun1217

Spiritous
May 2nd, 2009, 03:41 PM
When I was a kid if you so much as said an adults first name you'd be told off.

kk0sse54
May 2nd, 2009, 03:44 PM
Big deal you seem to get annoyed over nothing really

zeex
May 2nd, 2009, 03:45 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?

Well the whole world has changed. It's not the same as it was 30 yrs ago. Kids now have access to all kind of stuffs and parents are too busy with work. Internet/games has influenced more than anything, Drugs/clubs/movies/life style has influenced teenagers and so on ... Swearing is, in my opinion, a result of movies. There on screen their favorite characters do cool things and talk cool they just try to do the same initially and then it becomes 2nd nature.

What's happening is they are very fast learners at their age and they are learning from wrong/corrupt/incomplete sources. Parents are kind of responsible because it's their responsibility. But i guess the life has become so fast paced and competitive that for parents it's becoming more difficult day by day.

Parents are happy when the kids are doing things on their own as long as there is no trouble. They are busy with work and family and kids are busy with kids stuff. One day they get a complaint they ground the kid and suddenly for kids parents become the enemy. IF not checked by parents this grows in more trouble and then parents sit and wonder what the heck went wrong.

Check the sources/factors influencing a child's life.

zmjjmz
May 2nd, 2009, 03:46 PM
Just tell them to stay off of your lawn.

hanzomon4
May 2nd, 2009, 03:53 PM
what is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? - plato ca. 400 bc

+1

Spiritous
May 2nd, 2009, 03:54 PM
+1

+2 =3 :o

pwnst*r
May 2nd, 2009, 04:01 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?

also:

"i deserve everything and i shouldn't have to work for it!!!!"

stwschool
May 2nd, 2009, 04:02 PM
Depends where you go to be honest. In the UK kids in rougher areas are pretty damn unpleasant. I taught there for a while and frankly I'm glad I'm elsewhere. There is a large generation of parents who make no effort to bring their kids up.

On the other hand, now I'm in Thailand. Thai culture is fairly hierarchical, even extending into the language such that the word 'you' changes depending on your status relative to the other person. One of the funny things is that when you listen to Thai rock bands at concerts they're just too polite because the language doesn't really give them the chance not to be.

Now this also extends to school. I teach kids from about 20 different countries. Mostly Thai, some Thai/European mixed, some Korean, some American, some British, some European, and recently some Japanese. As much as I'm against national stereotyping, it's true to say that some nationalities DO have particular characteristics, and I hate to say it but our British and American kids are much lazier than their Asian and European counterparts, even to the point where our Dutch students beat the English ones in English exams. It's madness.

Our Korean students are usually among the best of our students, as their parents seem to instill a strong work ethic into them. On the other hand, when you see the British and American parents out on the town drunk as skunks you can see why the British and American kids don't perform so well.

Parenting is everything, and some of that comes from the culture the parents come from.

chucky chuckaluck
May 2nd, 2009, 04:04 PM
too many kids being brought up by daycare workers instead of a parent. civilization is a learned skill and kids need someone to teach it to them.

Shiva88
May 2nd, 2009, 04:11 PM
The kids of today. Need to plain grow up.

Dude, they're kids. By definition they haven't grown up. That's a part of life.

benj1
May 2nd, 2009, 04:11 PM
I hate to say it but our British and American kids are much lazier than their Asian and European counterparts, even to the point where our Dutch students beat the English ones in English exams. It's madness.


i think alot of this could be attributed to native english speakers picking up bad habits, if you learn a language from a teacher you don't pick up the slang, swear words etc.

sports fan Matt
May 2nd, 2009, 04:12 PM
I assume we're talking about people under 18? then yes they get away with alot more then 25 years ago

swoll1980
May 2nd, 2009, 04:13 PM
You forgot about pretending to be cutters, to fit in with the other fake cutters.

stwschool
May 2nd, 2009, 04:19 PM
i think alot of this could be attributed to native english speakers picking up bad habits, if you learn a language from a teacher you don't pick up the slang, swear words etc.
It's a factor, definitely, but I also think it's to do with their attitude towards study. Their parents don't really take the time to work with them at home, and don't take a view of study as being important, in the same way as our Korean parents do in particular, but also our Dutch and Scandinavian parents. I know it seems a dreadful generalisation, and I hate to make it, but when presented with the facts in such a multinational environment, I can't help but make such observations.

spasticteapot
May 2nd, 2009, 04:20 PM
Not paying any attention in class
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.


It's always been that way in bad schools. The swearing is new, but honestly, what's a few words anyway?



When I was a kid if you so much as said an adults first name you'd be told off.

British schools are a direct link to the elemental plane of suck. If you publicly mock students for their mistakes, you shouldn't be too surprised if they ditch school.


Drugs/clubs/movies/life style has influenced teenagers and so on

This is different from the sixties how?

Swearing is just a bunch of idle words - they're meaningless today.


also:

"i deserve everything and i shouldn't have to work for it!!!!"

Sounds like most of my customers. All of which are above age 40. It's a major problem with American society, in my opinion, but not one limited to teenagers.

Mehall
May 2nd, 2009, 04:26 PM
WARNING: Swearing in post (if I don't put this I'll definitely get in trouble. As it stands, I hope the mods leave it, because otherwise it defeats the point of the post.

Really? You're saying it's the kids?

I was waiting on a bus on Thursday night. About 11:15pm.

Three people, late30's/early 40's at best guess.

The two women were trying to convince this guy to come back to their place so they could have a party that night. They were completely wrecked, they had tons of booze with them, and when they got on the bus just after me the first words were "What the ****? This is the camera'd bus, we can;t ******* smoke!!! This ******* sucks, you know that?"

I was tempted to tell them to grow the **** up. They were old enough to be my parents.

LightB
May 2nd, 2009, 04:29 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?

This is new? It did happen 30 years ago, I bet, it's probably just worse now, keeps getting worse.

pwnst*r
May 2nd, 2009, 04:31 PM
Sounds like most of my customers. All of which are above age 40. It's a major problem with American society, in my opinion, but not one limited to teenagers.

i don't totally disagree with that, but nowadays kids are handed just about everything.

Sand & Mercury
May 2nd, 2009, 04:31 PM
Bring back the cane!!!!!!!!!!!1

kk0sse54
May 2nd, 2009, 04:35 PM
I assume we're talking about people under 18? then yes they get away with alot more then 25 years ago

By what standards? How can you accurately measure what kids are getting away with now versus 25 years ago. I'd actually argue the exact opposite, my school is run like a prison and they treat the students as criminals and the adminstration needs to be constantly on watch against them. This thanks to the application of stricter and stricter rules created by over pretentious adults to the point of where things that a person would have taken for granted 25 years ago aren't allowed anymore. I mean it gets me pissed off when I can't even go during lunch to a vending machine to buy a drink without getting in trouble because it's outside the "safe zone."

As for swearing, that's nothing new it happens all the time whether it's adults or kids. Bottom line it's just simple words nothing to get traumatized about. Kids will always be kids, and they will always be seen as unmoral according to the generation before them.

dasunst3r
May 2nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
I think a nontrivial part of the blame goes to the media. At only 20 years of age (two years ago), I convinced myself that MTV and VH1 are pure trash. Here are just a few examples:


My Sweet 16: Watch those brats whine over not getting exactly what they want.
Celebrities' kids getting their own houses as dollhouses and luxury cars before they can even drive
Spinoff of spinoff of ... of people supposed looking for love (Flavor of Love, I Love New York, etc.)
People talking like a cussword is required to make a complete sentence


Fortunately, my parents raised me to earn everything I get, and I have been able to deal with disappointment pretty well.

gymophett
May 2nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
When I was a kid if you so much as said an adults first name you'd be told off.

Are you serious? I play with my teachers calling them "Casey, Ramona, Susan" and what not. They don't care. They just laugh.

stwschool
May 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM
The issue with kids swearing is not the words themselves, but the lack of respect and self-control that they imply. I swear, as we all do, but I choose my language for the occasion. Good parents teach their kids the social skills to know what language is appropriate for what situation. Even now, I won't swear in front of my parents, and I definitely don't swear in front of my students!

The other thing is that yes kids ARE getting away with a lot. They're also VERY aware of their rights. Honestly, the blame for this one has to go to the likes of ChildLine. Kids know that if an adult gives them a clip round the ear the adult will lose everything. The other way round, and the kid gets a slap on the wrist. This is typified by the kids coming in with knives to the school I worked at in the UK. They knew that they could do anything they liked, no problem.

.Maleficus.
May 2nd, 2009, 04:44 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?
Maybe my highschool is just overly chillax and all but me (and 95% of the other students) do almost all of those every day. Granted, two of your seven are directly dependent on another and our punishment is pretty weak, but still... I mean, I personally do care about my punishment, and my parental guidance is very high, but when you have teachers swearing right along with you it's hard to resist.

Hell, (oops) our disciplinary principle put a kid head first into a trash can. Multiple times.

eragon100
May 2nd, 2009, 05:20 PM
Hell, (oops) our disciplinary principle put a kid head first into a trash can. Multiple times.

Maybe he should be fired...

zmjjmz
May 2nd, 2009, 05:40 PM
Maybe he should be fired...

Actually that sounds incredibly effective.

Spiritous
May 2nd, 2009, 05:57 PM
Are you serious? I play with my teachers calling them "Casey, Ramona, Susan" and what not. They don't care. They just laugh.

100% Serious... I'd be told off for dropping a pencil, even... Yes, I think Kids get praised WAY to much for stuff they should be doing (Manners, Homework...), Also dicipline is ALOT more relaxed... Detentions? I don't mind about sitting in a classroom for my free time... I do mind about being caned, though

Bodsda
May 2nd, 2009, 06:01 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.


Well this seems to outline my school days pretty well (a year ago)

I would swear at teachers in school because I have no respect for most of them, but the ones I did have respect for I would never swear at, respect needs to be earned, I will not respect someone just because they are a teacher.

I never payed attention in school for the same reasons but also because I didnt care about the subjects, and with hindsight, if i went through it all again I still wouldnt pay attention because the subjects were useless for me. Except for basic algebra which has helped with programming, I cannot name one subject that has helped me in my life.

As for punishment, so what I have to spend an extra hour at school, but if I didnt feel like sitting in silence for an hour I'l just skip the detention and get suspended, a whole day at home, its better then sitting in an english lesson.

What does authority do? Enforce rules that I dont care about, when i was in year 11 I was 16 and therefore it was legal for me to buy cigarettes, but my school had rules saying i couldnt smoke and nor could i leave the premises to smoke, so if i try to abide by the no smoking rule i have to brak the no leaving the premises rule, so basically its their fault that im in trouble.

As for parental guidence, my dad taught me everything I know and I respect his morales above any taught in schools.

So to sum things up, if you want teenagers in the UK to stop being so rude, the answer is to make the curriculum much more relevent and stop punishing them for things like smoking, most kids in later years of school smoke and by punishing them you are basically making them not care for your rules which looses you respect

Government
Schools

^^^ two biggest problems in the UK,

Thanks,

Bodsda

Polygon
May 2nd, 2009, 06:10 PM
So to sum things up, if you want teenagers in the UK to stop being so rude, the answer is to make the curriculum much more relevent and stop punishing them for things like smoking,

no, they punish you for smoking cause the people who DON'T smoke don't want to breathe your nasty second hand smoke.

and to the OP, i'm pretty sure you are exaggerating. Sure there are some bad eggs in all schools, but the majority of people seem to turn out ok. kids will be kids.

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 06:12 PM
Well this seems to outline my school days pretty well (a year ago)

I would swear at teachers in school because I have no respect for most of them, but the ones I did have respect for I would never swear at, respect needs to be earned, I will not respect someone just because they are a teacher.

I never payed attention in school for the same reasons but also because I didnt care about the subjects, and with hindsight, if i went through it all again I still wouldnt pay attention because the subjects were useless for me. Except for basic algebra which has helped with programming, I cannot name one subject that has helped me in my life.

As for punishment, so what I have to spend an extra hour at school, but if I didnt feel like sitting in silence for an hour I'l just skip the detention and get suspended, a whole day at home, its better then sitting in an english lesson.

What does authority do? Enforce rules that I dont care about, when i was in year 11 I was 16 and therefore it was legal for me to buy cigarettes, but my school had rules saying i couldnt smoke and nor could i leave the premises to smoke, so if i try to abide by the no smoking rule i have to brak the no leaving the premises rule, so basically its their fault that im in trouble.

As for parental guidence, my dad taught me everything I know and I respect his morales above any taught in schools.

So to sum things up, if you want teenagers in the UK to stop being so rude, the answer is to make the curriculum much more relevent and stop punishing them for things like smoking, most kids in later years of school smoke and by punishing them you are basically making them not care for your rules which looses you respect

Government
Schools

^^^ two biggest problems in the UK,

Thanks,

Bodsda


Ummm....... No. Just no.

drawkcab
May 2nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? - Plato ca. 400 BC

The Spartans pwned them.

|Mitch|
May 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
Things have went down-hill ever since they took out the punishment in the school system.

I can remember a time or two talking back to a teacher and getting the principal and his wooden paddle for my trouble.

5 little taps that'd set ya straight.

I can remember being at the dinner table and telling my great-grandma in a harsh tone: "I WASN'T going to do something. A few seconds later I was picking myself up off the floor.

Parents & Authority figures are the ones to blame for the way children act these days. Just remember: Spare the rod, Spoil the Child"

RazVayne
May 2nd, 2009, 06:32 PM
Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

Am I the only one who thinks this seems like a stereotypical geek getting pounded by bullies?
Although I feel for you as I would have been in the same position if not for my weight training,I wouldn't say kids these days need to "grow up" as life has it's own way of making sure of that.
When they'll hit all those problems that relate to the adult life,they'll give up on their "rebellion against the system" and follow your standard rules and everyone will live happily ever after.

SunnyRabbiera
May 2nd, 2009, 06:35 PM
Things have went down-hill ever since they took out the punishment in the school system.

I can remember a time or two talking back to a teacher and getting the principal and his wooden paddle for my trouble.

5 little taps that'd set ya straight.

I can remember being at the dinner table and telling my great-grandma in a harsh tone: "I WASN'T going to do something. A few seconds later I was picking myself up off the floor.

Parents & Authority figures are the ones to blame for the way children act these days. Just remember: Spare the rod, Spoil the Child"

Yes but then you can easily enter the realm of child abuse


Well the whole world has changed. It's not the same as it was 30 yrs ago. Kids now have access to all kind of stuffs and parents are too busy with work. Internet/games has influenced more than anything, Drugs/clubs/movies/life style has influenced teenagers and so on ... Swearing is, in my opinion, a result of movies. There on screen their favorite characters do cool things and talk cool they just try to do the same initially and then it becomes 2nd nature.

What's happening is they are very fast learners at their age and they are learning from wrong/corrupt/incomplete sources. Parents are kind of responsible because it's their responsibility. But i guess the life has become so fast paced and competitive that for parents it's becoming more difficult day by day.

Parents are happy when the kids are doing things on their own as long as there is no trouble. They are busy with work and family and kids are busy with kids stuff. One day they get a complaint they ground the kid and suddenly for kids parents become the enemy. IF not checked by parents this grows in more trouble and then parents sit and wonder what the heck went wrong.

Check the sources/factors influencing a child's life.

But this soccer mom generation fails by blaming just the media, you can strap your child down to a chair and force them to watch 24 hours of Barney and they can still turn out to be nasty.

My way of parenting is based on tolerance, the soccer mom and the child abuser way are two extremes that will never fully work.

|Mitch|
May 2nd, 2009, 06:39 PM
Yes but then you can easily enter the realm of child abuse



But this soccer mom generation fails by blaming just the media, you can strap your child down to a chair and force them to watch 24 hours of Barney and they can still turn out to be nasty.

My way of parenting is based on tolerance, the soccer mom and the child abuser way are two extremes that will never fully work.

Back in the day, there was no child abuse. You did something wrong you got a whoopin', end of story. After awhile, you learned not to disrespect and do stuff that got you that whoopin'. Or in my case "whoopins

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 06:40 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this seems like a stereotypical geek getting pounded by bullies?
Although I feel for you as I would have been in the same position if not for my weight training,I wouldn't say kids these days need to "grow up" as life has it's own way of making sure of that.
When they'll hit all those problems that relate to the adult life,they'll give up on their "rebellion against the system" and follow your standard rules and everyone will live happily ever after.

No. I just get very angry to hear swearing, I've only had physical contact with a student once in my life, this was by a very unstable kid in my school who couldn't express his feelings. He punched me in the stomach. But I'm fine, it's just the swearing that makes me angry.

RiceMonster
May 2nd, 2009, 06:40 PM
Are you serious? I play with my teachers calling them "Casey, Ramona, Susan" and what not. They don't care. They just laugh.

I can call my College professors by first name, but that's because it's a different environment. Actually, one of of them preferred to be called by first name. However, in high school or elementary school, the teachers would be offended (and you would be disciplined) if you were to call them by first name. In fact, a lot of them tried to keep their first name hidden, because they see having their students call them by first name as disrespectful. So, I don't think it seems that odd.

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 06:42 PM
Back in the day, there was no child abuse. You did something wrong you got a whoopin', end of story. After awhile, you learned not to disrespect and do stuff that got you that whoopin'.

Honestly, I wish that wasn't considered child abuse. That would make my school a bit more orderly.

drawkcab
May 2nd, 2009, 06:46 PM
By what standards? How can you accurately measure what kids are getting away with now versus 25 years ago. I'd actually argue the exact opposite, my school is run like a prison and they treat the students as criminals and the adminstration needs to be constantly on watch against them. This thanks to the application of stricter and stricter rules created by over pretentious adults to the point of where things that a person would have taken for granted 25 years ago aren't allowed anymore. I mean it gets me pissed off when I can't even go during lunch to a vending machine to buy a drink without getting in trouble because it's outside the "safe zone."

I remember getting in trouble for the same thing 16 years ago.


But this raises an interesting point. Disciplinary (read "prison-like") technologies have supplanted moral and political education. Is it any surprise that, away from the cameras and security guards, students act like complete idiots? What else can we expect since all of their incentives to behave are external? Our society will eventually need to universalize the technologies of the prison.

SunnyRabbiera
May 2nd, 2009, 06:51 PM
Back in the day, there was no child abuse. You did something wrong you got a whoopin', end of story. After awhile, you learned not to disrespect and do stuff that got you that whoopin'. Or in my case "whoopins

Well that was back in the day, but now beating a child half to death can lead to jailtime.
Beating a child for every last mistake is not the answer, we all make mistakes and severely beating the crap out of someone is not the answer.
If a child breaks one of the dishes by mistake I dont feel severe punishment is needed, hey I break dishes too every so often by mistake.
Now if they were tossing around the dishes like Frisbees without a care then it calls for a more firm hand, I would spank them yes but beating them down with a belt for six hours wont solve the issue.
one must walk the middle ground in parenting, too much abuse can lead to withdrawn children and in some cases serial killers...

Elfy
May 2nd, 2009, 06:59 PM
Discipline changes, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

There have been reports about this thread, I've moved all the posts relating to car crashes.

No more thanks.

|Mitch|
May 2nd, 2009, 07:08 PM
Well that was back in the day, but now beating a child half to death can lead to jailtime.
Beating a child for every last mistake is not the answer, we all make mistakes and severely beating the crap out of someone is not the answer.
If a child breaks one of the dishes by mistake I dont feel severe punishment is needed, hey I break dishes too every so often by mistake.
Now if they were tossing around the dishes like Frisbees without a care then it calls for a more firm hand, I would spank them yes but beating them down with a belt for six hours wont solve the issue.
one must walk the middle ground in parenting, too much abuse can lead to withdrawn children and in some cases serial killers...

I never said anything about severely beating, there were never any marks left on me. I'm not talking about mistakes either, but when children have the audacity to stand up and cuss out a teacher or flip them off or whatever. 5 or 6 licks with a leather belt could easily cure a lot of the problems

I used to get 5 or 6 licks a day at a minimum. I thought it was harsh at the time, but looking back; I earned and deserved everything I got. I wasn't the best kid, I had what they called ADD and I was bad. To this day though, I still respect my elders, do everything in my power to help people, open doors for women, say yes ma'am, yes sir, etc... I owe everything I have became to my up-bringing.

SunnyRabbiera
May 2nd, 2009, 07:11 PM
I never said anything about severely beating, there were never any marks left on me. I'm not talking about mistakes either, but when children have the audacity to stand up and cuss out a teacher or flip them off or whatever. 5 or 6 licks with a leather belt could easily cure a lot of the problems

or make it worse, repressed anger can turn into uncontrollable rage.

DeadSuperHero
May 2nd, 2009, 07:15 PM
I honestly think that kids have always been disrespectful in one way or another. It's part of growing up.

More importantly, why is it anybody's business how kids choose to act? A lack of respect ultimately challenges kids to think for themselves and to define the world around them.

marco123
May 2nd, 2009, 07:28 PM
Things have went down-hill ever since they took out the punishment in the school system.

I can remember a time or two talking back to a teacher and getting the principal and his wooden paddle for my trouble.

5 little taps that'd set ya straight.

I can remember being at the dinner table and telling my great-grandma in a harsh tone: "I WASN'T going to do something. A few seconds later I was picking myself up off the floor.

Parents & Authority figures are the ones to blame for the way children act these days. Just remember: Spare the rod, Spoil the Child"

Exactly. All we have nowadays is a bunch of pansies, pussyfooting around, too scared (or lazy) to enforce discipline. If the parents, police or teachers can't do a damn thing for fear of being sued (or whatever they're so scared of) then what do you expect.

No consequences, no compliance.

PhoenixMaster00
May 2nd, 2009, 07:36 PM
Kids needing to grow up. Do you see the irony?

I would like to point out that your points have always happened in society. Kids always rebel, then mature, then look on in dismay as their own kids rebel. The real problem is that while our culture is changing our institutions are not.

Yes kids can get away with more but that is as much a helping as a hinderance as it allows them to express themselves in all areas. The real problem is now they can get away with it it is just more visual. How many kids want to be sitting in a classroom? How many would rather do it in a more free flowing and practical enviroment. Dont just blame the kids it shows ignorance, look at the bigger picture, dont just look at the result look at the whys and the hows and how can it be changed.

The only reason its out there so much is because the media is now giving it more attention which in turn makes it more visible.
And as someone who studies media and culture i really get annoyed when people blame clubbing/music/games etc. They have limited effect on kids. If it were true we would see just as many positive effects on kids too since films and tv are so varied and so are the kids. And if anything clubbing if anything has got better, I mean were do you think Acid House came think. And further back than that people would just take crazy drugs and listen to music.

This is all i want to say on the subject atm i no a lot wont agree but i thought i would add my many thoughts to the discussion.

Dharmachakra
May 2nd, 2009, 08:39 PM
Honestly, if I don't hear any kind of "bad" language come from someone, I'll start to think they're a bit socially off. Even my own Senator used two "foul" words in conversation with me. I couldn't count on one hand how many times I've heard "foul" language in conversation with members of my school's administration. It's a natural thing. There's a time and place for it. I was never offended by their language. In fact, I felt more comfortable with them after realizing that they aren't always trying to perfect their image.

If it hurts you so much, I would say that you are the one that needs to grow up.

Dr Small
May 2nd, 2009, 08:46 PM
If it hurts you so much, I would say that you are the one that needs to grow up.

Thanks, but no. I am offended by anyone who uses foul language. It shows their true immature character, and that their vocabulary is limited.

Dr Small

cprofitt
May 2nd, 2009, 08:49 PM
Thanks, but no. I am offended by anyone who uses foul language. It shows their true immature character, and that their vocabulary is limited.

Dr Small

Please define foul language.

When you are done then we can engage in a discussion of the evolution of language and why swearing is in poor taste, but using such words does not show immature character of limited vocabulary.

CharmyBee
May 2nd, 2009, 08:50 PM
When you are done then we can engage in a discussion of the evolution of language and why swearing is in poor taste, but using such words does not show immature character of limited vocabulary.

At that point, you aren't 'using' it, you're discussing it. Using it to convey argument is the issue.

SomeGuyDude
May 2nd, 2009, 08:55 PM
Anyone who thinks theirs is the first generation to b*tch about how young kids are disrespectful and vulgar apparently never met any adults when they were young.

cprofitt
May 2nd, 2009, 08:57 PM
At that point, you aren't 'using' it, you're discussing it. Using it to convey argument is the issue.

How does using any word, foul or angelic, in an argument show the state of maturity or size of one's vocabulary?

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 09:02 PM
wow I didn't think this thread would go to 6 pages in one day...

Mehall
May 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
How does using any word, foul or angelic, in an argument show the state of maturity or size of one's vocabulary?

It's well regarded that the f word is one of the most flexible words in the English language.

I can use another word in most any context I use the f word in (except when referring to when someone fscked someone else, because there is a difference between that and having sex, lets be honest here.) it's just that people regard the f word as a stronger word, so you can get your point across much better, as they understand how vehemently you mean what you are saying.

(and see? I said vehemently even though I swear a lot. I know when it is inappropriate to swear, and cut out or minimise my usage at those times.)

cprofitt
May 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
Hmm... I got off track with a bird walk item.

/off topic

As far as kids being different than kids of previous generations - I do not agree. I think the youth has always been seen as rebellious. I think a deep look at the issue by those of us that are 'adults' and we will remember how we felt about adults when we were growing up. We will remember the slings and arrows that our generation took when we were teens.

Its the same old rant and the same old situation.

cprofitt
May 2nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
It's well regarded that the f word is one of the most flexible words in the English language.

I can use another word in most any context I use the f word in (except when referring to when someone fscked someone else, because there is a difference between that and having sex, lets be honest here.) it's just that people regard the f word as a stronger word, so you can get your point across much better, as they understand how vehemently you mean what you are saying.

(and see? I said vehemently even though I swear a lot. I know when it is inappropriate to swear, and cut out or minimise my usage at those times.)

Many words are like that... many words now considered foul language were once the common parlance of the day. I am not sure how that applies to the original question I had about how using foul language actually painted a person as immature or as having a small vocabulary.

SomeGuyDude
May 2nd, 2009, 09:13 PM
How does using any word, foul or angelic, in an argument show the state of maturity or size of one's vocabulary?

You're right that it doesn't, and the internet should absolutely teach anyone that one's word choice rarely indicates maturity level.

George Carlin is probably one of the most literate and eloquent comedians in history, swears like a sailor.

You see comments on YouTube by kids who throw out a hundred giant words trying to sound smart but are really just whiny children and it's obvious.

Personally I swear like crazy when the situation warrants it. It's part of the ol' vocab, not a limitation thereof.

TobiDN
May 2nd, 2009, 09:15 PM
The youth has always been an annoying lot, it's plain fact :)
It is amazing how similar the complaints about children
you can read in this thread, are almost exactly the same
as Platos, though they were written more than 2300 years ago.

I am quite appalled by those in favor of using violence against
children who misbehave. Children are people too you know :)
would you hit an adult if he/she did something you didn't like?
There are other and better ways to solve conflicts, and if
you cannot find them, you shouldn't be allowed to be a teacher.

A child should learn the reason why they shouldn't do bad things,
e.g. you do not call people names, cause it makes them feel bad.
Not because you're going to get hit if you do. What when they get
into the real world, and do not know a single thing about empathy?
How are they going to know what is right and wrong, if the only way they can tell is by somebody hitting them with a stick when they do the wrong things?

will1911a1
May 2nd, 2009, 09:28 PM
No. I just get very angry to hear swearing, I've only had physical contact with a student once in my life, this was by a very unstable kid in my school who couldn't express his feelings. He punched me in the stomach. But I'm fine, it's just the swearing that makes me angry.

You'd better get used to it. It doesn't get better when you become an adult.

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 09:37 PM
You'd better get used to it. It doesn't get better when you become an adult.
True. True.

Neheb
May 2nd, 2009, 10:06 PM
Not paying any attention in class

I think this is more about how schools are run than it is about children. Why should they bother paying attention when they don't get anything from it? or why bother doing homework?

One of the stupidest things I think teachers do are actually punishing students for doing their work. When a student finish what they are supposed to do while at school (at least the 10 first years at school here in norway) the teachers mostly "reward" them with more work. Why if you are not interested in the subject at all, would you want to actually do it knowing it would just get you more work? why not have it so the ones that are done can go outside and do whatever they want to? I think that would motivate them a lot more.

On the subject of being polite to teachers, I can't remember a single teacher I have had that was ever called by their last name. In most cases we didnt even know what their last name was, but this is just how Norwegian society is. Unless you are in an extremely formal situation we use peoples first name.

And on swearing I do swear, a lot, but as others have said it don't really mean anything. Just a habit. But when I speak English I don't, at least as I have noticed myself, swear at all. Since it's not my primary language I just haven't gotten into the habit and it just feels awkward swearing. The exception would be abbreviations like wtf and fubar because I use those when speaking norwegian as well and they come naturally.

supersonicdarky
May 2nd, 2009, 10:12 PM
What's wrong with occasional swearing? I understand there are people who's speech consists of >50% swearing, in which case it's just to show off how many times they can swear in a minute. But other then that, I'm fine with it (and do so myself). They are just words, sounds imo. Don't understand how people can find them offensive.

=/

^ coming from one of these 'kids'

llemm
May 2nd, 2009, 10:14 PM
Kids Just imitate what they see on Adults. Nothing else

thisllub
May 2nd, 2009, 10:15 PM
There is a generation that has never heard the word no.
Their selfishness has been reinforced by parents out of the guilt of never being there due to financial pursuits, and the media who see them as a stream of revenue.
They have little respect for others and violence and property damage are a consequence.

lisati
May 2nd, 2009, 10:21 PM
Big deal you seem to get annoyed over nothing really
Which proves the original poster's point!!!!!!

A big part of it is "kids will be kids".
Another thing I've noticed, having grown up in a conservative atmosphere, is that a lot more liberal ideas seem to be the norm these days. One of the paradoxes I've noticed is this: we're expected to respect one another, but any mention of having people face the consequence of what they do in the same sentence as the word "respect",watch out!!!!

dragos240
May 2nd, 2009, 10:22 PM
whoa....... 8 pages.

HammerOfDoubt
May 2nd, 2009, 10:43 PM
The youth has always been an annoying lot, it's plain fact :)
It is amazing how similar the complaints about children
you can read in this thread, are almost exactly the same
as Platos, though they were written more than 2300 years ago.

I am quite appalled by those in favor of using violence against
children who misbehave. Children are people too you know :)
would you hit an adult if he/she did something you didn't like?
There are other and better ways to solve conflicts, and if
you cannot find them, you shouldn't be allowed to be a teacher.

A child should learn the reason why they shouldn't do bad things,
e.g. you do not call people names, cause it makes them feel bad.
Not because you're going to get hit if you do. What when they get
into the real world, and do not know a single thing about empathy?
How are they going to know what is right and wrong, if the only way they can tell is by somebody hitting them with a stick when they do the wrong things?

Do you have kids?
They are people, but they aren't adults. They are impulsive and frequently irrational. They haven't developed the mental capacity necessary to understand things the way adults do, and if you don't raise them right, they end up being pretty crappy adults anyway.
Discipline is not violence, and in no way is it "just hitting them with sticks". What you are doing is making it look absurd by oversimplifying it, and you aren't actually discussing it.
You are supposed to instill in them a sense of right and wrong, but when they cross a line to far and they try to play the boss, you have to pull them back in line, and that means a firm spanking.

Also, for clarification, there are no "forbidden" words in my house. There's harsh language for harsh feelings. I don't think cussing is a big deal but I don't think it should serve as word padding in a sentence either. Obviously, no harsh language in situations where others forbid it, like school or work.

But I expect this advice to just wash over the kind of people that think raising your kids soft and with a soft touch is good for them and society. Those are the kind of people who think they are raising a generation of John Lennons but end up with kids as described in the OP and who stay bratty up until their 40's. It's all part of the decline really.

doas777
May 2nd, 2009, 11:01 PM
Seriously! I've been waiting to post this topic for a LONG time now. Kids in my school are completely out of control, a few examples include:

Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority
And well.... parental guidance seems very low.

I'm very sure much of THIS didn't happen 30 years ago. The this seems to be caused by terrible parenting that are these days. Really what happened to this? Could someone explain to me what has happened?
I'm fine with swearing, given that it's appropriate. don't be unrespectful, but at the same time, it's just an adjective. just don't use it as a weapon.

I agree with many of your points, but all I can tell you, is that they will make you look better by comparison.

cariboo
May 2nd, 2009, 11:02 PM
Swearing in school
Swearing in school in everyday conversations
Not paying any attention in class
Swearing at teachers (seriously!)
Couldn't care less about what type of punishment they get
Couldn't care less about any type of authority

I graduated in 1971, it was the same then as it is now. The only difference was a very small minority that weren't into soft drugs.

Mehall
May 2nd, 2009, 11:41 PM
I graduated in 1971, it was the same then as it is now. The only difference was a very small minority that weren't into soft drugs.

I finished high school inside the last few years, and I know plenty, including myself, who STILL, even at university, haven't done ANY drugs.

I haven't even smoked (though, granted, I drink quite a bit.)

|Mitch|
May 2nd, 2009, 11:51 PM
Do you have kids?
They are people, but they aren't adults. They are impulsive and frequently irrational. They haven't developed the mental capacity necessary to understand things the way adults do, and if you don't raise them right, they end up being pretty crappy adults anyway.
Discipline is not violence, and in no way is it "just hitting them with sticks". What you are doing is making it look absurd by oversimplifying it, and you aren't actually discussing it.
You are supposed to instill in them a sense of right and wrong, but when they cross a line to far and they try to play the boss, you have to pull them back in line, and that means a firm spanking.

Also, for clarification, there are no "forbidden" words in my house. There's harsh language for harsh feelings. I don't think cussing is a big deal but I don't think it should serve as word padding in a sentence either. Obviously, no harsh language in situations where others forbid it, like school or work.

But I expect this advice to just wash over the kind of people that think raising your kids soft and with a soft touch is good for them and society. Those are the kind of people who think they are raising a generation of John Lennons but end up with kids as described in the OP and who stay bratty up until their 40's. It's all part of the decline really.

Amazing, purely amazing post!

ntowakbh
May 2nd, 2009, 11:53 PM
I am a high school student(Sophomore), and I do not do that sort of thing. However, I notice that a lot do. One girl in my French class said to our teacher something along the lines of "Shu' up! Ain't nobody talkin' to you!" That was the first time that I've ever seen my French teacher truly angry, she actually shouted at the girl -- not that it helped any. But these kinds of things happen on a regular basis, however, exceptions are generally made in the AP/honors classes, so I don't deal with it most of the time. However, we have a few in there that are a bit mouthy themselves. It is depressing.

benerivo
May 3rd, 2009, 12:02 AM
You are supposed to instill in them a sense of right and wrong, but when they cross a line to far and they try to play the boss, you have to pull them back in line, and that means a firm spanking.

That's separate to "right and wrong". That's "do and do not". If you can't bring someone up to realise right from wrong, without hitting them, then i think there is a problem.

HammerOfDoubt
May 3rd, 2009, 12:55 AM
That's separate to "right and wrong". That's "do and do not". If you can't bring someone up to realise right from wrong, without hitting them, then i think there is a problem.

Nice attempt to make it seem like a question of parental competence. You can reframe it as much as you want, but the results speak for themselves.

And the real world will be a lot harder on any kid than a rational disciplining parent would be.

benerivo
May 3rd, 2009, 01:19 AM
Nice attempt to make it seem like a question of parental competence.

The idea was yours not mine. You said "...and if you don't raise them right, they end up being pretty crappy adults..." I never suggested anthing about parental competence. I simply said there was a problem.

My idea is that kids and their parents are part of a world that is dysfunctional, that neither has adapted to.

Base nothing on the results, but instead look at the cause.