I have a problem with the new shutdown timeout confirmation in Jaunty

[thelugnut]

I just installed Jaunty 9.04. When I finished I pressed the little red logo which opened a menu. I pressed "Shut Down..." and what happens? Another little window opens up and informs me that Ubuntu is going to shut down in one minute. I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW! What gives? Are we so stupid we need all this? :shock:

[lethalfang]

I actually like this. I've clicked the wrong button a few times. It sucks when I want to shut down, but clicked "restart" instead, and then actually have to wait for the computer to reboot, and then shut down.

[Namtabmai]

Weird, I had a friend complaining about the exact opposite with his old Ubuntu install. He's now running Jaunty and likes it.

[NFblaze]

I dont know...but uh...maybe it might stop accidental shutdowns... its actually pretty useful....it actually reminds me to think of anything else I have to do...

On a sidenot I used to like when Windows would cancel a shutdown if it couldnt close a program...cuz alot of times at the last minute I'd be like .."oh, wait I forgot to do this" but now it just barrels through....

[vambo]

Well, there's always ..


sudo shutdown -h now

in your favourite terminal ;)

[Bios Element]

I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW!

No you didn't. You could wait 60 seconds and it'll shut right down. I love the feature as it's easy to hit the wrong button at 3am in the morning.

[nandemonai]

You can always turn it off if you don't like the feature. /shrug

[Simian Man]

...3am in the morning.

As opposed to 3am in the afternoon?

I too like this feature. I don't shut down often enough for this to be a real annoyance and even if you hit shut down accidentally once in a year, it would be really aggravating.

[yoasif]

If by "acting like Windows" you mean "more usable", sure. I don't see what is wrong with that.

[Dragonbite]

You can always turn it off if you don't like the feature. /shrug

How, or where?

[Bölvaður]

There are 2 types of shutdown you can have. the one that comes with the default layout is not my favorite one... right click the panel and add "Shut down..."

[ErwinC]

Right-click on the desktop.....

[jzalomon]

if i could post my opinion is that ubuntu has come a long way and it's actually better than windows, more features...easy to use...nice interface...variety of programs and some of us just complaint for little things...thanks to all the developers of ubuntu...a nice cuppa in my house anytime...
cheers everyone and enojoy ubuntu like never before..!

[marco123]

My wife accidentally turned the PC off once when I was on something like 99 days 21 hours uptime.:mad: So for me this is the best feature yet.

[davisouzarj]

I have just downloaded Jaunty, but not installed it yet.

I am pretty sure this can be disabled, Why don't you try to google for a hint?

[]'s

[marco123]

I have just downloaded Jaunty, but not installed it yet.

I am pretty sure this can be disabled, Why don't you try to google for a hint?

[]'s

What's all this about shutting down? Must be a laptop thing.;)

Drop to shell: Ctrl+Alt+F1 and login and issue:


sudo shutdown -h now

Pretty instant.

Cheers, Marco.

[ddrichardson]

If by "acting like Windows" you mean "more usable", sure. I don't see what is wrong with that.I agree that improving usability is essential but I'd dispute that that means "like Windows".

[yoasif]

I agree that improving usability is essential but I'd dispute that that means "like Windows".agreed, but the opening poster wasn't clear about what exactly was Windows-like about that behavior.

[ghindo]

You can very easily disable this:

http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/04/shut-down-delay-remove.html

[marco123]

You can very easily disable this:

http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/04/shut-down-delay-remove.html

:lolflag:

Now that's easy.

[Marlonsm]

I also liked the feature.

I just didn't understand why they didn't use it on the hibernate option too.

[gymophett]

There's nothing wrong with that. It sucks when you press the wrong thing.

[nothingspecial]

I didn`t like it - so I turned it off.

Same with that message you get when closing a terminal - I turned that off too.

Bet I come a cropper from having done so soon.

[Pasdar]

You can enable/disable this feature in GUI.

[joey-elijah]

I just installed Jaunty 9.04. When I finished I pressed the little red logo which opened a menu. I pressed "Shut Down..." and what happens? Another little window opens up and informs me that Ubuntu is going to shut down in one minute. I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW! What gives? Are we so stupid we need all this? :shock:

You are kidding right? There's a massive difference between preventing accidental shut downs/restarts and in getting OCD about every action the user does.

[t0p]

I gotta say, I'm surprised so many folk like this kind of behaviour. I dislike the fact that Ubuntu is increasingly asking me "Are you sure you want to do that?" Why can't the OS assume that I actually want to do what I do?

Yeah yeah, a lot of this behaviour can be changed. But why can't the default be to assume that I'm not a complete moron?

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Ugh, Ubuntu has always done this :/

The timer is a fine idea, as it ensures that you can just click Shut Down and leave your system be.

[zenithdave]

I gotta say, I'm surprised so many folk like this kind of behaviour. I dislike the fact that Ubuntu is increasingly asking me "Are you sure you want to do that?" Why can't the OS assume that I actually want to do what I do?


Look out the XP users are migrating. Ubuntu has a big buzz going on and were here to have a look.

Green and round soft icons :P

[Sublime Porte]

Is Ubuntu beginning to act like Windows?

Actually isn't this taken from OSX?

I'm not too fond of it either. A better idea would be to have a dialog which says "click cancel to abort shutdown", but continues on with the shutdown pretty much immediately.

[Kareeser]

"beginning to act like Windows"

That's a pretty serious accusation to be throwing at Ubuntu.. especially for something as trivial as the shutdown dialogue!

I was expecting something comparable to DLL Hell, or BSOD... (brown screen of death?)

But no. Not at all.

[stimpack]

The constant "are you sure you want to do this", was my main annoyance with Windows.

Yes I am very sure I want to do the action for which I pressed the button for. If someone presses the button by mistake maybe they should have to face the consequences, maybe it will improve their button pressing abilities.

[Noise...]

When you start getting BSOD's, viruses, and sluggish performance you can say it's like Windows. :p

[swoll1980]

How, or where?

It has nothing to do with stupidity. You know how many times I went to log off, and hit shut down by mistake? This timer is a great thing.

[HavocXphere]

Reminds me of the story about CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE and the spiel about people accidentally hitting that combo.:confused:

Also, 60sec/30sec(KDE)...why not 5sec? Who needs a full minute to decide whether that was an accidental click or not? If all the boxes ran ubuntu then that would probably have a material effect on global warming. (OK not quite)

[Screwdriver0815]

the great advantage over windows is: you can turn it off. So why are so many people complaining about it instead of simply turning it of??

just rightclick on the Menu (username), go to preferences and disable "show dialog for shutdown, restart, switching user"

thats it

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Perhaps some people here should start reading up on accessibility? Not everyone is the same.

[pwnst*r]

Omg just like windows

[triplemaya]

I like the option of an instant shutdown, and I now have a menu item which does just that, after a bit of rummaging around! Full story at:-

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1141043

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Or if you really want it to be different for the sake of it, go to a terminal and type "sudo shutdown now" when you want to shut down.

...Or do you want everyone to have to do it?...

[Dragonbite]

Ok, now that I found how to turn it off, what I really want to do is reduce the time it sits there! Not 60 seconds, maybe 30 seconds.. or 15 seconds.

Long enough for me to think "Oh ****, that's not what I want to do!" and to click Cancel. :lolflag:

[BslBryan]

Ok, now that I found how to turn it off, what I really want to do is reduce the time it sits there! Not 60 seconds, maybe 30 seconds.. or 15 seconds.

Long enough for me to think "Oh ****, that's not what I want to do!" and to click Cancel. :lolflag:

Right. And after I figure out how to do that, I want it to just read my mind. That way, I can just think "I want you to shut down." And it will. That's why Ubuntu sucks. Windows is awesome.

[geogur]

Ubuntu is in no way acting like win. i help win. users mostly xppro.! and run 3 different linux distros on 3 different pc`s . for my exp. linux is my choice and windows is what it is you can have it . linux dose not act like win.

[ddrichardson]

BSOD... (brown screen of death?)
Dude, your monitors colour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Screen_of_Death) needs adjusting ;-)

[skymera]

wow

In all my years using Ubuntu i've never once seen that dialogue pop up!
Do you need user switch applet running or something? :O

[Paqman]

A simple change to the UI doesn't mean Ubuntu is "becoming Windows", that's just silly.

This annoying dialogue and the whole update-manager thing are my only beefs with Jaunty, which makes it a fantastic upgrade IMO. I've switched them both back to the previous behaviour and i'm now a happy camper.

[Dragonbite]

wow

In all my years using Ubuntu i've never once seen that dialogue pop up!
Do you need user switch applet running or something? :O

I've seen this in other distros before. This is the first time I've seen in it Ubuntu.

[Eisenwinter]

Well, there's always ..


sudo shutdown -h now

in your favourite terminal ;)
I agree.

I shutdown and reboot from terminal. Can't go wrong there :)

[entr3p]

I just installed Jaunty 9.04. When I finished I pressed the little red logo which opened a menu. I pressed "Shut Down..." and what happens? Another little window opens up and informs me that Ubuntu is going to shut down in one minute. I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW! What gives? Are we so stupid we need all this? :shock:

It's stupid how people claim Ubuntu is "beginning to act like Windows" when they are making things more user friendly. Remember Ubuntu is aimed at NORMAL non-geeky users. Also I actually appreciate this feature.

[thelugnut]

I don't think anybody on this forum has the right, or the intelligence, to call me stupid.
The question was a question, not a statement. I personally, do not think it is necessary to press or click on two or three objects to complete a simple action. That type of thing reminds me of Windows.
Now if you like that type of thing, then by all means defend it, but don't call me stupid just because I disagree with you.
I found the inputs interesting, but I still think I should be able to empty my waste basket, shut down the computer, etc, etc with a click. Don't you think it is a bit weird that you can execute a "rm" command and really do some damage, but you can't shut down your machine? And please, don't explain to me about the "you can do this and that" to accomplish the action. Just a simple click should do it.:guitar:

[Dragonbite]

I found the inputs interesting, but I still think I should be able to empty my waste basket, shut down the computer, etc, etc with a click. Don't you think it is a bit weird that you can execute a "rm" command and really do some damage, but you can't shut down your machine?

I think these things are there for the general user who has a better chance of accidentally clicking on things before realizing what it all means. That actually doesn't bother me since they provide a means to turn them off.

It's kinda like an entrance fee, if you want the "advanced" features you have to prove you have 3 not 2 brain cells to rub together.

And it is less likely if you are going to go into the terminal that you will run "rm" in the first place without having an idea of what you are doing.

All-in-all, I don't see any issues with them turning on these features by default, as long as I can turn them off if I want to. I'd like to change the time it counts down too, but that's another issue.

[FraggedLocust]

Even if Ubuntu did become like windows in almost every way, it would still be Ubuntu to me because I'm assuming it would still run on the Linux kernel and be mostly free.

It's adopting things Windows does which makes it easier for Windows converts to apply their existing knowledge and expand on it while learning Linux. and it just makes it easier for everyone to make sure they want to do something. People are becoming too obsessed with doing everything quickly. Stuff like the timeouts gives you time to think about your decision and whether you really want the action committed. And you can always turn those features off.

[ddrichardson]

It's adopting things Windows does which makes it easier for Windows converts to apply their existing knowledge and expand on it while learning Linux. and it just makes it easier for everyone to make sure they want to do something.
The only problem I have with this is the assumption (perhaps only implied) that in some ways Windows's interface is doing it right. From an HCI point of view I doubt this is the case and suspect that in most cases its familiarity with Windows that makes this the yard stick.

When introducing systems based on Ubuntu, or any GNU/Linux system, to people with no experience or interest in computers I have generally found that the interface is easier to teach and more quickly adopted than with many similar systems running on either Windows or web based applications.

There are things that Windows does well but the interface isn't one of them - if you consider consitancy, then the file dialog is a good example, there are several in Windows, depending on what the designer chose. From an affordance point of view - the Start button is not an obvious place to click to find the button to urn off the computer. Even Microsoft must recognise this is an issue because they have consistantly changed the interface from release to release and often in substantial ways.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Actually, here's a funny detail: Windows doesn't do this.

[gsp8181]

Mac has had it for quite a while, don't recall windows ever having this

But it's a good feature, stops some unintended shutdowns

[Paqman]

stops some unintended shutdowns

Does that actually happen a lot though? Not having a go, i'm just genuinely surprised that it would be common enough to need a new feature.

[gsp8181]

Has saved me quite a bit :D (In OS X)

I often decide I want to restart instead of shutdown or find out that I havn't finished/saved etc something properly before I restart

[calvinps]

Well, there's always ..


sudo shutdown -h nowin your favourite terminal ;)

Would Konsole be compatible with GNOME/xfce?

Just curious :lolflag: :D

[Namtabmai]

Would Konsole be compatible with GNOME/xfce?

Just curious :lolflag: :D

Yes?

[Rainstride]

if it bothers you turn it off, by right clicking and opening preferences, and uncheck show confirm dialogue.

besides microsoft doesn't do what will be better, they do what makes money. so this idea that we are becoming widows is stupid to say the least. at first i though that the confirm shutdown thing was stupid, but then it saved me from shuting down by accident like 5 or 6 times:).

[Bios Element]

Does that actually happen a lot though? Not having a go, i'm just genuinely surprised that it would be common enough to need a new feature.

I can remember at least 5 times I did it. Maybe I'm just dense but lemme tell you, It's VERY annoying to be working on something and randomly have things shutting down as you dive for the Save button.

[Guilden_NL]

You can very easily disable this:

http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/04/shut-down-delay-remove.html

Thanks for that, never had a need to change those preferences and frankly forgot how to do it. This new GUI addition is very annoying to me and I like being able to shut it off.

[toupeiro]

Cool that you can shut it off. Quite frankly, this has been a practice in UNIX for some time if you just issue a shutdown command. I believe my old IRIX and Solaris servers do this unless you tell it to. I dont see the harm in it.

[Kareeser]

By the way, this brings to mind an embarrassing story about shutdowns...

I was using Firefox and decided I wanted to clear my cache, so really quickly, I press Ctrl-Shift-Del and hit enter.

It was only right after that I realized I had pressed Ctrl-Alt-Del instead, and watched my computer magically shut down.

Durr...

Ironically... there is no shutdown countdown there.

[samjh]

I gotta say, I'm surprised so many folk like this kind of behaviour. I dislike the fact that Ubuntu is increasingly asking me "Are you sure you want to do that?" Why can't the OS assume that I actually want to do what I do?

Yeah yeah, a lot of this behaviour can be changed. But why can't the default be to assume that I'm not a complete moron?

Because the biggest cause of computer problems stem from the user. Even very competent users make mistakes, like using the rm command on an important directory, accidentally hitting y when aptitude asks to uninstall a million dependencies you actually need, or more pertinently, shutting down the computer when you really wanted something else.

[aysiu]

First of all, this thread is mistitled. Windows XP does not have a countdown (does Vista?). Mac OS X does have a count down, so this is actually Mac-like behavior.

But I'm really surprised there are people who have never made a mistake before. I click the wrong thing all the time. I've tripped over power cords (thank God my wife's Macbook Pro has a magnetic cord).

I don't really see what the big deal is. You don't have to confirm. If you really meant to shut down your computer, just walk away, and it'll shut down in 60 seconds. You can also turn off the confirmation.

Since I have a netbook, I choose in the Gnome Power Manager settings to have it shut down when I close the lid. No confirmation necessary.

It's actually okay for Ubuntu to "act like" other OSes in some respects. Did you know Windows also launches applications when you click on the application icon? Did you know Windows also has a clock on the taskbar? Does that mean Ubuntu should have icons that do nothing instead? Or that Ubuntu shouldn't have a clock?

We shouldn't make design decisions because Mac OS X and Windows make those same decisions. But it is okay to share some design decisions that are good for all OSes.

[Kareeser]

Here here aysiu!

[cprofitt]

I just installed Jaunty 9.04. When I finished I pressed the little red logo which opened a menu. I pressed "Shut Down..." and what happens? Another little window opens up and informs me that Ubuntu is going to shut down in one minute. I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW! What gives? Are we so stupid we need all this? :shock:

Actually OS X works this way...

[skotos]

If by "acting like Windows" you mean "more usable", sure. I don't see what is wrong with that.If by "acting like Windows" you mean "with problems that survy to upgrades", unfortunately yes. :) (Sorry for this, but I was thinking at Hardy and Jaunty audio issues: probably release dates might be delayed in order to solve historical issues:guitar:)

[skotos]

But it is okay to share some design decisions that are good for all OSes.And not only design. It is not bad at all getting what we have seen that works well in another environment to ours.

[Racecar56]

I just installed Jaunty 9.04. When I finished I pressed the little red logo which opened a menu. I pressed "Shut Down..." and what happens? Another little window opens up and informs me that Ubuntu is going to shut down in one minute. I had to press another little button to get it to close down, NOW! What gives? Are we so stupid we need all this? :shock:
that is the exact opposite of windows vista
it shuts down right when you click shut down, dosen't say are you sure...
however xp actually makes a big dialog that is impossible to not notice, especially when the screen darkens

[pbpersson]

Well, there's always ..


sudo shutdown -h now

in your favourite terminal ;)

Using the terminal on a regular basis is against my personal beliefs.

I would put it into a shell script, give it a cool icon, and then put it in the panel or into Docky. :)

[Mr. Picklesworth]

that is the exact opposite of windows vista
it shuts down right when you click shut down, dosen't say are you sure...

And to explain how bad that is, the lack of a dialog means there is no knowing what it's about to do. Vista, by default, enters a hybrid sleep mode. Many unsuspecting users unplug their sleeping computers thinking they are turned off properly because the OS failed to provide feedback about its new state.

With the full dialog, they can even slip in a nice link to documentation which explains the different choices. The countdown is for this thread's OP; if you click shut down and expect the system to immediately shut down, you are only 60 seconds off :)

[skotos]

Using the terminal on a regular basis is against my personal beliefs.

I would put it into a shell script, give it a cool icon, and then put it in the panel or into Docky. :)Yes, but with gksu would be ugly and redundant for the GUI only guys! :biggrin: The GUI is sometimes so annoying and long to navigate... I have been always running cmd.exe/command.com on ******* as well! LOL

My 2 cents: documenting configurations done at the command line level is always a winning habit. Documenting the same actions with a GUI forces you to print tons of paper that an OS update/upgrade (either another Window Manager) immediately obsoletes... Furthermore, changing permissions and ownerships with a GUI is too often a broken activity... :( And... what about committing suicide with a nice rm -f / ? :twisted: How could you not love the command line simplicity? Please, note that I do really enjoy Gnome, KDE and XFCE. Sometimes it just simply is impossible to make Compiz and the window decorator work without typing a short command... GUIs always miss some critical flag... and Linux is nicer than other OSes because everything can be done at both levels...

I really hope Linux will never try to force me to run the "command console" in the future instead of my virtual terminals, the rescue mode and the rest... In the end, I hope it will never act like *******, indeed...

[ddrichardson]

that is the exact opposite of windows vista
it shuts down right when you click shut down, dosen't say are you sure...
however xp actually makes a big dialog that is impossible to not notice, especially when the screen darkens
Vista has two buttons, the obvious on goes into standby and the drop down next to it where you can click on shutdown.

[stinger30au]

i think this is a great idea, a few times i have accidently hit the shutdown button by accident and seen my work dissapear before my eyes

not any more


i love it! rock on 9.04:guitar:

[Bodsda]

A simple change to the UI doesn't mean Ubuntu is "becoming Windows", that's just silly.

This annoying dialogue and the whole update-manager thing are my only beefs with Jaunty, which makes it a fantastic upgrade IMO. I've switched them both back to the previous behavior and i'm now a happy camper.

See the thing is, its a simple change to gnome UI that is the difference, I'm sat here on fluxbox and to be honest the only changes I have noticed have been the boot times and the splash screen. When i want to shutdown i'l use


sudo shutdown -P now
and when I want to reboot I'l use

sudo shutdown -r now

I think its a pity that unless you use gnome you dont see any real changes, but then again I dont expect the developers to cater for every DE/WM so I dont really mind.

I do think that the Ubuntu experience is being dumbed down, if I click a button its because I want it to perform its action, I dont want to have to clarify myself to a machine, I said do it so just do it! If I clicked it by accident then thats my own fault and I should work on my fine mouse control skills and accept the consequences.

Thanks,

Bodsda

[CraigPaleo]

I disabled it in the preferences. I don't see how so many people could be accidentally shutting down. It's the very last menu item. I log out frequently so I'm usually never even near restart or shut down. At least we're given a choice whether to keep it or not.

[VitaLiNux]

Well, as an answer to the OP, I think Ubuntu is becoming more and more like *******, that's why I've just decided to move on and leave behind Ubuntu UNTIL IT BECOMES MORE MATURE. To me Jaunty has been way too buggy. It's giving me too much problems (and no, I don't have any exotic hardware, just the same I've been using with previous releases and other distributions and OSes) It just doesn't cut it to me by now... Sorry.

[ddrichardson]

I don't see how so many people could be accidentally shutting down.
They probably aren't but no-one is posting bug reports saying "I haven't once accidentally rebooted - what gives?" :)

[jacob01]

yeah i noticed how it keeps getting more and more user friendly, but besides that nothing really like windows.

[aysiu]

I've retitled the thread, since this behavior is not in Windows.

If someone thinks it should be retitled Is Ubuntu beginning to act like Mac OS X? I'll consider that title instead.

[BazookaAce]

See the thing is, its a simple change to gnome UI that is the difference, I'm sat here on fluxbox and to be honest the only changes I have noticed have been the boot times and the splash screen. When i want to shutdown i'l use


sudo shutdown -P now
and when I want to reboot I'l use

sudo shutdown -r now

I think its a pity that unless you use gnome you dont see any real changes, but then again I dont expect the developers to cater for every DE/WM so I dont really mind.

I do think that the Ubuntu experience is being dumbed down, if I click a button its because I want it to perform its action, I dont want to have to clarify myself to a machine, I said do it so just do it! If I clicked it by accident then thats my own fault and I should work on my fine mouse control skills and accept the consequences.

Thanks,

Bodsda

Why don't people use "sudo reboot" and "sudo poweroff" ? I'm using it all the time.

[Jordanwb]

My wife accidentally turned the PC off once when I was on something like 99 days 21 hours uptime.:mad: So for me this is the best feature yet.

Oh horrors. ;)


Since I have a netbook, I choose in the Gnome Power Manager settings to have it shut down when I close the lid. No confirmation necessary.

Oooh good idea.

[Polygon]

you can disable the shutdown confirmation, and its very useful since i often click the wrong button on that silly little menu that they decided to implement rather then the very big-hard-to-mis-interpet buttons

[Dragonbite]

Over the weekend I wanted my son to log off (his time was up) but not shutdown. He accidentally hit shutdown but because of the timed confirmation box, we as able to cancel and hit log off instead.

[ddrichardson]

his time was up
And you're worried about log off buttons?!

[NCLI]

Over the weekend I wanted my son to log off (his time was up)

My condolences :(

[CraigPaleo]

you can disable the shutdown confirmation, and its very useful since i often click the wrong button on that silly little menu that they decided to implement rather then the very big-hard-to-mis-interpet buttons

If you don't like it, just remove it from the panel and replace with the shut down and/or log out applets. They're still there under the system menu anyway. No one is forced to use the fast user switch applet.

[thelugnut]

I am not happy that the title of this thread was changed. I titled it the way I wanted.
The point I was making, was this. It seems to me that Ubuntu is more and more adding extra windows that ask if an action is really what the user wants to do.
I would like it much better if it were reversed. That is, if the user is unsure of himself, then there is an option to allow pop-up windows which question his intent.
I understand that some threads may be moved if it is deemed they are in the wrong place, but I don't like the title being changed.
Change it back, please.

[aysiu]

Your title was sensationalist and factually incorrect.

The behavior is not like Windows. Windows does not have such a shutdown timeout confirmation.

If you want, I can change it to ask if Ubuntu is beginning to act like Mac OS X. Would you prefer that?

[thelugnut]

No

[aysiu]

No
Then I would suggest you post a thread in the Resolution Center (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) about it. I trust the judgment of the forum admins. If they say your original thread title should be put back, I'll put it back.

[pluviosity]

I shutdown/restart/suspend my laptop using Gnome Do. No dialogs or menus for me :)

[thelugnut]

No, it's not worth the effort.
Time to move on to other subjects, I think.
I have received so much help from this forum, I don't care to ruin a good relationship.
Have a nice day.