Idea for Ubuntu: integrated contacts and support

[LsrLine]

In my opinion, the short answer is that Ubuntu is not people ready and by that I mean Ubuntu is severely lacking in a lot of areas in which people can connect, get help, collaborate, etc. Although, Ubuntu has a great community the OS is still lacking. For example, when we think of the conventional desktop, meaning your actually desk... on your desk's "desktop," in an office lets say, I can call multiple people over and talk them face-to-face, we can collaborate and write on the same documents, we can give each other files and with my permission people can see my desktop and move files around.

So how can we make this happen on the Ubuntu desktop? How can we make Ubuntu function as if you literally had a group of people sitting right next to you when you wanted to?

For starters, I would like to get everyone's input in the specific areas that can be improved. I will then update this thread and start/link brainstorm ideas to that specific idea and then track the progress of each idea into getting into Ubuntu.

IDEAS
=====

Users should be able to get remote assistance from friends, family or even paid support in Empathy/Pidgin by simply clicking on a button (proper ports should forward automatically, upnp?).
Users should be able to collaborate on the same document by just clicking on a contact/IM contact.
Users should be able to do video conferencing with a group of people. Mingle (http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Muji?action=show&redirect=Mingle)
Users should be able to to have only one file/object to manage a contact. In this case, something like the people project (https://launchpad.net/people-project) or libsoylent (http://live.gnome.org/Soylent/libsoylent) should be used.

[timm017]

.

[connorh123]

This should be moved to Ubuntu Testimonials and Experience.

[LsrLine]

@timm017: I noticed you edited your thread after saying I was an idiot. Can you back that up at all or are you just flaming and not following the CoC?

[ddrichardson]

I think you're confusing the idea of desktop ready and collaborative working - are you suggesting a distributed team working environment?

Personally I don't want any ports automatically opened for RDP because its a potential security vulnerability.

[jacob01]

I don't know of any os that is 100% "people ready" by your standards. ubuntu can do those things that you list just with a little configuring, so i don't quite understand what you are asking. Im guessing you want more automation with less work for the end user.

Personally i think that for the most part ubuntu is user friendly and people ready.

[meeples]

ahh ah desk ae?

then it should have a lamp xD

and ooh ubuntu should have a built in printer :P

hahaha im just kidding, i see what you mean, but yea im pretty sure it can do all those things?

[Eisenwinter]

@timm017: I noticed you edited your thread after saying I was an idiot. Can you back that up at all or are you just flaming and not following the CoC?
You mix things up.

The supposed definition of "desktop/people ready" is "the average joe can get it to work without any problems".

[skymera]

@timm017: I noticed you edited your thread after saying I was an idiot. Can you back that up at all or are you just flaming and not following the CoC?

Quote or it didn't happen

[Skripka]

Quote or it didn't happen

Can't quote it, but I did see it.

[Simian Man]

I use LaTeX + SVN for collaborative work, but I imagine that that won't float most people's boats. There are also web-based apps like Google Docs and so on that can handle this kind of thing fine.

[LsrLine]

I think you're confusing the idea of desktop ready and collaborative working - are you suggesting a distributed team working environment?

By people ready I mean not just collaborating, but how easy it is just to manage your contacts or to connect to your contact/people whether you're just going to do a video call and say hi. Call it what you like, but it was more than just collaborating.


Personally I don't want any ports automatically opened for RDP because its a potential security vulnerability.

Yes, as most people wouldn't. A simple dialog fixes this. Also I believe transmissions and other programs will forward ports automatically if the option is set. There is an easy way to address that concern.


I don't know of any os that is 100% "people ready" by your standards. ubuntu can do those things that you list just with a little configuring, so i don't quite understand what you are asking. Im guessing you want more automation with less work for the end user.

That's my point, but don't you think it should? Don't you think that out of the box Ubuntu should let you do all of those things and more? This is something that I'm personally interested in, so I wanted to follow up on project and see where everything was and why it isn't in Ubuntu. For example, why shouldn't we be able to have a video call with 3 of my friends at the same time when I install a fresh copy of Ubuntu without installing extra packages?

[ddrichardson]

Yes, as most people wouldn't. A simple dialog fixes this. Also I believe transmissions and other programs will forward ports automatically if the option is set. There is an easy way to address that concern.
How does that fix such a problem? What are you going to put in the dialogue, consider these two phrasings and ask yourself of the likely outcome:

"Click here to open a port to allow others to take control of your computer, with your permission."

OR

"Click here if you want Enhanced Desktop Functionality (tm)"

There are always balances between security and function but RDP is not likely to be a popular option, especially as security is very much a Linux trump card.

[Bungo Pony]

The problem with Ubuntu (or any linux distro for that fact) is that it needs to be installed. Regular computer users don't need to install their OS because their computer already came with one. Regular computer users don't know anything about partitions, file systems, booting off a CD, etc etc. They just know that their computer is junk because it's too slow and Internet Explorer just pops up on it's own for no reason. When that happens, they need a new computer or get someone to fix their existing one.

Computer users are stupider today than they were 25 years ago when they had to type in commands to load programs. You can thank Microsoft for doing all the thinking and work for computer users everywhere.

PCs should not have ANYTHING pre-installed. I'd have no problem if they shipped with a blank HD and a Windows CD, but having it already installed has killed OS competition and user intelligence when it comes to computers.

Now, imagine if MP3 players came with a couple thousand songs pre-loaded. It's definately enough to keep many people happy and entertained, but it takes away choice and robs exposure from other artists. The user also doesn't need to do anything because the songs on the player are 'good enough'. PCs with Windows pre-installed are essentially the same thing.

[hanzomon4]

Semantics aside... I get what you're saying. I use pidgin/empathy, evolution, gwibber, and skype. How cool would it be to have one source for all of these contacts. In other words my email contacts would be the same as my pidgin and skype contacts... I'm thinking of the palm pre's contact cards. Kind of like a one stop shop for your digital communications. I could state that better but I think you get what I mean. And with document sharing, instead of working on a paper and emailing it to a friend I should be able to do that via Oo.org?

It seems like what you want is more integration between the various apps. D-Bus can provide this I'm sure, and a central database(wrong word maybe) that apps can use as a source for your contacts would be a big help. I don't think any ports are closed by default...they're just not "listening". If you give permission for a service to use these ports I don't see what the big deal would be security wise.

[BGFG]

IDEAS
=====

Users should be able to get remote assistance from friends, family or even paid support in Empathy/Pidgin by simply clicking on a button (proper ports should forward automatically, upnp?).
Users should be able to collaborate on the same document by just clicking on a contact/IM contact.
Users should be able to do video conferencing with a group of people. Mingle (http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Muji?action=show&redirect=Mingle)
Users should be able to to have only one file/object to manage a contact. In this case, something like the people project (https://launchpad.net/people-project) or libsoylent (http://live.gnome.org/Soylent/libsoylent) should be used.


But which OS currently offers these needs ?

[hanzomon4]

But which OS currently offers these needs ?

OS X is pretty damn close.. Palm Pre is there at least on the contacts side of things, and hey that's linux

[LsrLine]

i see what you mean, but yea im pretty sure it can do all those things?

I'm starting to see this as a pattern when people are saying this, but that don't always point to where. So lets start with a few things:

Can I edit a contact in Empathy/Pidgin and have that contact's information be automatically updated wherever that same contact is whether it's Evolution/Thunderbird or any other program that would use that contact?

If, lets say my gandma needs help with her computer, can she click on my name in Empathy/Pidgin and ask for remote assistance where I can see her screen and control her desktop with her permission? Windows Messenger does this.

How about video conferencing. I just installed Ubuntu 9.04 can you show/point me to a place where I can have a video conference with 3 people at the same time that is easy to do. I will even install a package, but will not add a 3rd party source and install a package that way because that would be missing my point which is that it is not "easy" for the end user or they have to run some dev release or someting.

There are 3 examples and I can think of more. Trust me when i say I would love to be mistaken.

[ddrichardson]

I'm starting to see this as a pattern when people are saying this, but that don't always point to where. So lets start with a few things:

Can I edit a contact in Empathy/Pidgin and have that contact's information be automatically updated wherever that same contact is whether it's Evolution/Thunderbird or any other program that would use that contact?

If, lets say my gandma needs help with her computer, can she click on my name in Empathy/Pidgin and ask for remote assistance where I can see her screen and control her desktop with her permission? Windows Messenger does this.

How about video conferencing. I just installed Ubuntu 9.04 can you show/point me to a place where I can have a video conference with 3 people at the same time that is easy to do. I will even install a package, but will not add a 3rd party source and install a package that way because that would be missing my point which is that it is not "easy" for the end user or they have to run some dev release or someting.

There are 3 examples and I can think of more. Trust me when i say I would love to be mistaken.
Who is going to be on the other end of this support system? If its just you, do you want to be your friends personal IT support whenever you're online?

It sounds like you're building a good case for your family to run Windows if it offers these features!

Seriously though - this is a massive undertaking. Video conferencing alone is a pain in the ****. It sounds straight forward but it isn't - webcams are notorious for being non-standardised and driver support, especially on cheaper models (which, lets face it are the ones grandma is going to buy in Tescos). Pidgin developers have been very reluctant to do this and they've been getting asked for ages.

You would need to begin by defining a standard API that all these interacting applications are to use, so you need to define exactly what it is that you want everything to do. Otherwise you need to consider creating some huge monolithic application that does everything.

In fact, I think this would be a task and a half for a paid development team.

[inobe]

is this one of those push a button things, is that people ready ?

[hanzomon4]

For the last one ekiga... the first and second I would say some custom d-bus setup plus a contacts "manger"

[sydbat]

Great ideas. Really.

Of course this is the answer to all those people who keep saying "why isn't there just one Linux??" Read this thread, it answers that clearly. For those needing more help...

...it is because each person wants something different from their OS and expect that it should be included in the one they choose. That is why there are a gazillion distros - everybody wants certain things and no single OS can accommodate it 'out of the box' because the OS would then be EVERY OS in one and require 10 DVD's and 200GB of HHD space for a basic install.[/rant]

[LsrLine]

How does that fix such a problem? What are you going to put in the dialogue, consider these two phrasings and ask yourself of the likely outcome:

"Click here to open a port to allow others to take control of your computer, with your permission."

OR

"Click here if you want Enhanced Desktop Functionality (tm)"

There are always balances between security and function but RDP is not likely to be a popular option, especially as security is very much a Linux trump card.

How would you do it? The dialog/option would be prompted to allow you to forward the port automatically rather than you doing it manually. This doesn't have to be the case I was just giving an example of how it would be easier for the user. Also both parties would have to accept a remote desktop sessions and any party can end it at any time. This technology does exist and there are security measures that are in place to make sure it's as secure as possible. If idea itself is bad then please tell me why or maybe how it could be better. Keep in mind, I'm not a programmer I'm just user and I hear all the time Ubuntu members not listening to the core idea of what users want, so please take a look back at the core of the idea(s) and have the most optimistic approach rather than pessimistic approach.

[LsrLine]

It sounds like you're building a good case for your family to run Windows if it offers these features!

Yes, maybe you're right or maybe we should just make Ubuntu better!

[jacob01]

By people ready I mean not just collaborating, but how easy it is just to manage your contacts or to connect to your contact/people whether you're just going to do a video call and say hi. Call it what you like, but it was more than just collaborating.



Yes, as most people wouldn't. A simple dialog fixes this. Also I believe transmissions and other programs will forward ports automatically if the option is set. There is an easy way to address that concern.



That's my point, but don't you think it should? Don't you think that out of the box Ubuntu should let you do all of those things and more? This is something that I'm personally interested in, so I wanted to follow up on project and see where everything was and why it isn't in Ubuntu. For example, why shouldn't we be able to have a video call with 3 of my friends at the same time when I install a fresh copy of Ubuntu without installing extra packages?


yeah it sounds like a good idea but i don't think it would be practical to turn ubuntu into something like this because not all users would want features like that. so perhaps a derivative aimed at collaborating would be a better idea?

edit: sorry i must have miss understood part of your idea. I was just concerned with cluttering ubuntu up with a bunch of programs that users may not use, but by the sounds of it that isn't what your trying to do.

[K.Mandla]

Users should be able to get remote assistance from friends, family or even paid support in Empathy/Pidgin by simply clicking on a button (proper ports should forward automatically, upnp?).
Users should be able to collaborate on the same document by just clicking on a contact/IM contact.
Users should be able to do video conferencing with a group of people. Mingle (http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Muji?action=show&redirect=Mingle)
Users should be able to to have only one file/object to manage a contact. In this case, something like the people project (https://launchpad.net/people-project) or libsoylent (http://live.gnome.org/Soylent/libsoylent) should be used.

I personally don't see any need for any of these things, and would probably uninstall most of them as soon as I got them. But I can imagine situations where someone else might find them useful.

If you are passionate about the ideas, then perhaps you should be making suggestions to the developers, instead of in an off-topic area of the forums.

[aysiu]

I've retitled the thread so that it isn't mistaken for a "Linux isn't ready for the average Joe" one.

Still, I may eventually just close this, as it really belongs in the Idea Pool subforum, which recently got closed in favor of Brainstorm.

I would suggest you post this idea on Brainstorm:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com

[LsrLine]

yeah it sounds like a good idea but i don't think it would be practical to turn ubuntu into something like this because not all users would want features like that. so perhaps a derivative aimed at collaborating would be a better idea?

Are you talking about a idea in particular or all of them. Either way, I politely disagree. I think users do want this. In fact, what do you think this does when in Ubuntu 9.04 check the "Configure network automatically to accept connections" box do? From my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it does just what I was talking about trying to forward a port automatically for you. Here's a screenshot:


http://icubenetwork.com/images/screenshot.png

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

That's my point, but don't you think it should? Don't you think that out of the box Ubuntu should let you do all of those things and more? This is something that I'm personally interested in, so I wanted to follow up on project and see where everything was and why it isn't in Ubuntu. For example, why shouldn't we be able to have a video call with 3 of my friends at the same time when I install a fresh copy of Ubuntu without installing extra packages?

NO!!! For my personal computing, I don't want Ubuntu to be any more bloated than it already is. If I want those things then I will install the applications myself. That is why I have a LAMP server with a Wiki, Message Board, etc.

[LsrLine]

I've retitled the thread so that it isn't mistaken for a "Linux isn't ready for the average Joe" one.

Still, I may eventually just close this, as it really belongs in the Idea Pool subforum, which recently got closed in favor of Brainstorm.

I would suggest you post this idea on Brainstorm:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com

You may just want to close this. I don't go on the ubuntu forums that often and I was hoping to post more and be more involved in the community. My intentions were only good and really wanted to see an active, positive discussion about how to improve the way Ubuntu connected, managed and collaborated with people with the OS, but after this experience I think I'll stay away from here. I've been using Ubuntu since 5.10, but maybe the ubuntu staff member is right. Maybe I should go back to Windows.

[aysiu]

You may just want to close this. I don't go on the ubuntu forums that often and I was hoping to post more and be more involved in the community. My intentions were only good and really wanted to see an active, positive discussion about how to improve the way Ubuntu connected, managed and collaborated with people with the OS, but after this experience I think I'll stay away from here. I've been using Ubuntu since 5.10, but maybe the ubuntu staff member is right. Maybe I should go back to Windows.
Okay. I'm closing the thread. Look forward to seeing your idea on Brainstorm.