I-magic OS $79: Is this a joke, or what?

[swoll1980]

Check this out (www.imagicos.com/index.html) Also, wouldn't they have to provide the source code on the website somewhere?

[SomeGuyDude]

Ahahaha, the mighty IMagicOS. You should have seen the claims they made a while ago about how it gave you access to "millions of programs" amongst other things.

[gymophett]

Linux pre-loaded with WineHQ? For $79. WTF?!

[CharmyBee]

lol, Firefox is "Internet" and Konqueror is "Explorer"

[Skripka]

Linux pre-loaded with WineHQ? For $79. WTF?!

By some cosmic sense of divine irony, WTF and FTW are palindromes.

[Perfect Storm]

Seems like they following the footsteps of linspire and xandros? $79 is aweful alot of money IMHO.
Nice Desktop theme though, but it look like they have taken the exact same apps you have in every other linux distro and renamed them.

[swoll1980]

Seems like they following the footsteps of linspire and

They even have the same naming scheme, but instead of Lin-whatever_the_app_does it's Magic-whatever_the_app_does.

[doorknob60]

And it looks like they made some really crappy progrms too. Look at MigicWriter, looks worse than even Wordpad. And the Music one looks bad too. The least they could do is use OpenOffice and Amarok and programs that will actually work right. The only positive I see is that it comes with licenced versions of Crossover, both Office and Games, instead of Wine like most of these crappy distros usually come with.

[juancarlospaco]

Desktop sucks!!!

[swoll1980]

The only positive I see is that it comes with licenced versions of Crossover, both Office and Games, instead of Wine like most of these crappy distros usually come with.

I thought Wine, and crossover were the same thing.

[swoll1980]

Desktop sucks!!!

You might not like it, but I don't think it sucks. It looks like they put alot of effort into the look of it.

[kerry_s]

ohhh, sighn me up, where's my wallet?
:lolflag:

[MaxIBoy]

And it looks like they made some really crappy progrms too. Look at MigicWriter, looks worse than even Wordpad. And the Music one looks bad too. The least they could do is use OpenOffice and Amarok and programs that will actually work right. The only positive I see is that it comes with licenced versions of Crossover, both Office and Games, instead of Wine like most of these crappy distros usually come with.They actually do use OpenOffice-- they just renamed it to iOffice or something.

[Skripka]

ohhh, sighn me up, where's my wallet?
:lolflag:

Click BuyNOW!! 111!!!

[Kareeser]

They actually do use OpenOffice-- they just renamed it to iOffice or something.

MagicOffice :P

[doorknob60]

I thought Wine, and crossover were the same thing.

Almost, but Crossover has official support for some programs like MS Office and Steam, among others, and setup for the supported programs is usually very easy and is less buggy and more straightforward than in Wine. Crossover is based on Wine, and Crossover is the official financial support for Wine, so without Crossover, Wine probably wouldn't be where it is today.

[BGFG]

Scalpers trying to make a quick dollar. They offer nothing that a few days of research could not provide a noob. better you just burn your money.

[TjankMjaster]

I was staring at that announcement, scratching my head, going, "WTF am I getting for 79 bucks???" Yeah Slow,...](*,)](*,)

anyone see ANYTHING in there that's not already available for free??


PS - DoorKnob60, "the Microsoft Vacuum",.. I just shot soda out my nose...

[Noblacktie]

Some people attach a stigma to all things free and feel something can only be worthwhile if they pay for it.

iMagicOS is out to part these people with their money.

[Sinkingships7]

Well, it's a very nice website. I'll give them that.

[Stupendoussteve]

Meh, perfectly legal but not well presented. I really would have no problem if more distributions were commercial enterprises. There is nothing barring this. Of course, they probably wouldn't get too popular, especially because someone would make a free (price) version (A la RHEL > CentOS).

There is, of course, that long held belief that the free in free software means gratis, which is not the case nor was it meant to mean that.

They only have to give the source to the people they distribute to. If this is available then there is no problem.

[chucky chuckaluck]

might be worth it for the incredible effects. and don't laugh about changing the name of konqueror. whenever someone asks why people don't like kde, the most common response is that people just don't like the 'k' branding on everything. smart move on their part.

[Eisenwinter]

Recurring discussion. This has been posted at least 3 more times.

[jespdj]

Last time someone posted about iMagic OS they had different versions of it that looked like Windows and Mac OS X. It really looked like a project from some highschool kid.

It is sold as closed-source, while it is based on Linux and a lot of other GPL software. I think they are blatantly ignoring the GPL. Have a look at the EULA (http://www.imagicos.com/get.html) - it looks like a copy of something that you would get with Windows, but with "Windows" replaced by "iMagic OS". Especially this is directly violating the GPL:

2. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS.

All right, title and interest in and to the patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret, and any other intellectual property rights in the Software, including source code, documentation, appearance, structure and organization, are held by Licensor and/or its licensors. You may not copy or otherwise use the Software, in whole or in part, except as expressly permitted in this Agreement. Title to the Software, or to any copy, modification or merged portion of any of the Software Programs, shall at all times remain with Licensor and/or its licensors, subject to the terms of the applicable Third Party Agreement(s) to the Software Programs under consideration.

It might be interesting if someone seriously questioned them about the license.


Meh, perfectly legal...
I doubt that, since they are presenting GPL software with this proprietary, closed-source license.

[billgoldberg]

Well, it's a very nice website. I'll give them that.

You think so?

To me it looks very amateurish.

[inobe]

i don't know about the license, may need someone with the skills to review it.

after a brief look there are proprietary codecs and possibly crossover bundled with it.

that may explain the cost, i just can't see the reasoning ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

edit: it doesn't have much of anything, it's complete crap........

[DracoJesi]

Check this out (www.imagicos.com/index.html) Also, wouldn't they have to provide the source code on the website somewhere?

they don't have to put the source code on the site, I haven't seen it on say Ubuntu.com,

but seeing as how they can't charge for Linux, only the disk it's on, they're going to find themselves in some legal troubles...

a blank disk =/= $79 :lolflag:

so unless they some some non GPL software on there, they are breaking the GPL,

and can you imagine the angry letters they're going to get when t:lolflag:eir customers realize not everything runs in wine....

now if the $79 includes that netbook they mention....


this is a clear violation of the GPL , it's code stealing, illegal and disrespectful of t he thousands of hours of work people have put into creating free software..



To me it looks very amateurish.

it looks ok, but other than the graphics used, it's nothing special, no on hover buttons, or anything, and they need a border or something for that scrolling text frame.... looks choppy....

[DracoJesi]

Last time someone posted about iMagic OS they had different versions of it that looked like Windows and Mac OS X. It really looked like a project from some highschool kid.

It is sold as closed-source, while it is based on Linux and a lot of other GPL software. I think they are blatantly ignoring the GPL. Have a look at the EULA (http://www.imagicos.com/get.html) - it looks like a copy of something that you would get with Windows, but with "Windows" replaced by "iMagic OS". Especially this is directly violating the GPL:


It might be interesting if someone seriously questioned them about the license.


I doubt that, since they are presenting GPL software with this proprietary, closed-source license.

so how do we go about informing Linus and everyone else....

[Perfect Storm]

Meh, perfectly legal but not well presented. I really would have no problem if more distributions were commercial enterprises. There is nothing barring this. Of course, they probably wouldn't get too popular, especially because someone would make a free (price) version (A la RHEL > CentOS).

There is, of course, that long held belief that the free in free software means gratis, which is not the case nor was it meant to mean that.

They only have to give the source to the people they distribute to. If this is available then there is no problem.

Absolutely, it just seems they done it the wrong way. I don't mind paying for stuff, but they have to offer something that I can use to the right prize. If it comes with professional 24 hours per day support for a year $79 it would be cheap, but I doubt I-Magic OS offers that other than they have a small forum to post questions.

In the Mandrake days I paid for my versions (close stuff + support). My first Linux distro I paid for as well, Corel Linux, which came with a 6 CDs, a huge manual about using command lines and explanation + online/phone support. Very Professional.

[Johnsie]

I think it's a great idea. Charging for the software provides money to invest in applications development.

A major problem with alot of Linux applications is that there is a major lack of financial investment in them.

[cb951303]

where is the source. they don't have to put it on the website but they have to provide it somehow. does anyone mailed FSF already?

[Perfect Storm]

I think it's a great idea. Charging for the software provides money to invest in applications development.

A major problem with alot of Linux applications is that there is a major lack of financial investment in them.

I highly doubt that any of the money goes to any of the devs who made the apps and libs on I-Magic, besides that I.Magic have to pay Crossweaver for Cross office. But it would be a good idea to suggest I-Magic to do it.

[tbroderick]

If it comes with professional 24 hours per day support for a year $79 it would be cheap, but I doubt I-Magic OS offers that other than they have a small forum to post questions...

Well, it does say it comes with support and it comes with Crossover Pro, which costs $69.95 online.

[DracoJesi]

Meh, perfectly legal but not well presented. I really would have no problem if more distributions were commercial enterprises. There is nothing barring this. Of course, they probably wouldn't get too popular, especially because someone would make a free (price) version (A la RHEL > CentOS).

There is, of course, that long held belief that the free in free software means gratis, which is not the case nor was it meant to mean that.

They only have to give the source to the people they distribute to. If this is available then there is no problem.

you overlooked something though, they aren't selling it under the GPL, here's their user agreement:


iMagic OS End User License Agreement

THIS END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ("AGREEMENT") IS ENTERED INTO BY AND BETWEEN iMagic OS ("LICENSOR"), AND YOU -- AN INDIVIDUAL END-USER ("YOU") -- AGREEING TO A LICENSE FOR PERSONAL USE ON THREE COMPUTERS.YOU AGREE TO CAREFULLY READ THIS AGREEMENT BEFORE INSTALLING OR USING THIS SOFTWARE PRODUCT, INCLUDING ALL ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTATION, ENHANCEMENTS, UPGRADES AND EXTENSIONS THERETO (COLLECTIVELY, THE "SOFTWARE"). INSTALLING OR OTHERWISE USING THE SOFTWARE INDICATES YOUR ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS AGREEMENT AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY AND COMPLY WITH ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THIS AGREEMENT, YOU SHALL NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO INSTALL, USE OR OTHERWISE BENEFIT FROM THE SOFTWARE. SELECTING THE "I ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT" OPTION FURTHER CONFIRMS YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

1. LICENSE.

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You agree to the following terms of this Section 1.1: the Software is a modular operating system made up of individual software components (each individual software component and all accompanying documentation, enhancements, upgrades and extensions thereto are referred to herein as "Software Program(s)") that were created either by Licensor or various individuals and/or entities. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Licensor grants You a non-exclusive, non-transferable license (without the right to sublicense) to use the object code form of the Software for Your personal use in accordance with the accompanying documentation. You may download and use the Software on one computer owned, leased or rented by You. Subject to Section 1.2 below, You may not (and shall not allow any member of Your Household or any other third party to): (i) copy, reproduce, distribute, relicense, sublicense, rent, lease or otherwise make available the Software or any portion or element thereof except as and to the extent expressly authorized herein by Licensor; (ii) translate, adapt, enhance, create derivative works of or otherwise modify the Software or any portion or element thereof; (iii) decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer (except as and to the extent permitted by applicable local law), or extract ideas, algorithms, procedures, workflows or hierarchies from, the Software or any portion or element thereof; (iv) use the Software or any portion or element thereof to provide facility management, service bureau or similar services to third parties; or (v) remove, modify or obscure any identification or proprietary or restrictive rights markings or notices from the Software or any component thereof. You shall keep a current record of the location of each copy of the Software You make.

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[shuttleworthwannabe]

Give them credit for thinking of a "shiny" theme---looks different from plain KDE4 and GNOME vanillas. Something, Canonical could easily adopt, make Ubuntu/variants unique.

Otherwise, clever way to sell FREE software.

S

[jespdj]

Otherwise, clever way to sell FREE software.
You mean: Clever and probably illegal way to rip off people.

[Giant Speck]

Give them credit for thinking of a "shiny" theme---looks different from plain KDE4 and GNOME vanillas.

That's because it's KDE 3. The use of the digital clock and KBFX is blatantly obvious from the screenshots they provide.

[Perfect Storm]

Well, it does say it comes with support and it comes with Crossover Pro, which costs $69.95 online.

Yes, I know the Cross Office pro is expensive and I have seen an E-mail adresse where it says support. But does it work? Do you really get the support? Everybody can but an e-mail up and claim to do support.
I think it needs to be more transparent in that matter. What do you actual get.

And if it's not working, do you get your money back?

[Wiebelhaus]

Check this out (www.imagicos.com/index.html) Also, wouldn't they have to provide the source code on the website somewhere?

How about the Professional outfit Pioneer (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapioneer.com%2F&ei=q4v1SeWCGs2blQfegqjODA&rct=j&q=pioneer+linux&usg=AFQjCNHsYajUm-Ucefa3e7gt2__Qlq0iNQ&sig2=RZ8qG82gEZix8anziCA9KQ) One of the guys in our shop tried to load the Live Disc on his Tech PC and it crashed before it even rendered the desktop , A PC that runs linux mind you.

lol

[DracoJesi]

Give them credit for thinking of a "shiny" theme---looks different from plain KDE4 and GNOME vanillas. Something, Canonical could easily adopt, make Ubuntu/variants unique.

Otherwise, clever way to sell FREE software.

S

you know, I don't know why some people complain about the default theme, really, not only does Ubuntu come with multiple themes,there are thousands of Gnome, KDE, Emerald, ect. themes out there in every category, free to download, and it's so easy to mix and match elements from multiple themes...

Canonical really doesn't have to feel that gap, there job should focus on efficiency,stability, features and compatibility... theres no reason for them to spend time in theming....

and as for shiny, check out Ubuntu Studio's taskbar er.... docks

much shinier than vista IMO, I don't like the circles for minimize/maximimize/close but again, mix and match

[racerraul]

iMagic huh?
I'm more interested in them developing new Atari 2600 games.

[swoll1980]

Yes, I know the Cross Office pro is expensive and I have seen an E-mail adresse where it says support. But does it work? Do you really get the support? Everybody can but an e-mail up and claim to do support.
I think it needs to be more transparent in that matter. What do you actual get.

And if it's not working, do you get your money back?




LICENSOR MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, OF ANY KIND WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITH NO WARRANTY. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, LICENSOR EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, ACCURACY, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT, AND ANY WARRANTIES THAT MAY ARISE OUT OF COURSE OF PERFORMANCE, COURSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE. LICENSOR DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL OPERATE IN COMBINATION WITH HARDWARE, SOFTWARE, SYSTEMS OR DATA NOT PROVIDED BY LICENSOR, OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE.

Looks like your on your own if you buy it.

[xArv3nx]

If you don't get the message from all the other posts on this forum, then I'll just reiterate it: DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT!

I used to "work" with Carlos, and the guy practically unpacks the debs, edits the files in them, then "packs" them back up.

[hcorey]

No one has figured out how to moniterize the desktop--Corel, Red Hat, Linspire all failed. The best way is probably to be honest with the consumer--point out that the software is "free", and what they are actually paying for is 24x7 phone or email support, written documentation, legal codecs, legal player for encrypted DVD's, etc. If the total package is really good, people will pay for it.

[fatality_uk]

They have to grant you access, but afaik, dont have to provide a direct link to the source.

The guys behind this seem young to me, but then I am an old man now lol :D

I have no problem with them charging for Linux as long as they abide by the GPL for the areas of code they have used. If they have created new applications or new code for the distro, they have every right to do what they want with that as a package and charge for it if they wish.

I loved reading the posts here. People get VERY bent out of shape at the mere thought of someone charging for Linux. If the package includes the likes of 24x7 support, crossover and new apps, why the hell not? I wish commercial distro's every success.





*Adorn's himself in Nomex®

[Johnsie]

what they are actually paying for is 24x7 phone or email support, written documentation, legal codecs, legal player for encrypted DVD's, etc.


All that adds even more overheads onto the already high costs of developing software. Yes software should be supported, but that can be paid for by selling the actual software. How many programmers are good on the telephone?

[Simian Man]

this is a clear violation of the GPL , it's code stealing, illegal and disrespectful of t he thousands of hours of work people have put into creating free software..

What are you talking about? They only need to license the part of their system that is derived from other GPLed works under the GPL. Since Crossover is not GPL-derived, it doesn't have to be under the GPL. Likewise for their custom apps they don't have to be open source or free.

People are perfectly within their rights to sell customized Linux distros with multiple licenses. Do some research before making wild claims like this.

Of course *I* would never dream of buying it, but hey :).

[Johnsie]

+1 for simian man

[richg]

There was a lot of discussion in the Other OS forum but that forum has been removed. This thread pretty much says the same.

The imagicos people tried to get the Freespire forum to help them and were pretty much run out of town.

The imagicos people tried in the Ubuntu Other OS forum also.

I started with a pay OS, Lindows/Linspire in 12-2003. They have been gone at least a year or more.

Rich

[DracoJesi]

What are you talking about? They only need to license the part of their system that is derived from other GPLed works under the GPL. Since Crossover is not GPL-derived, it doesn't have to be under the GPL. Likewise for their custom apps they don't have to be open source or free.

People are perfectly within their rights to sell customized Linux distros with multiple licenses. Do some research before making wild claims like this.

Of course *I* would never dream of buying it, but hey :).

but Linux must be under GPL, there license is not GPL,

and multiple licenses of Linux? being limited to install Linux on only a few machines is not open-source, it is not under GPL, Linux is licensed under GPL, so you can install Linux on as many machines as you want, this may not be true of the programs and code they made, or have put in the package, but it is so for Linux, and they need to be clearer on that,

in any case, why one would buy this product is beyond me....

you get everything in there with say Ubuntu...

I don't know all that much about Ubuntu's tech support, but Ubuntuforums seems adequate...

the only other thing I saw was crossfire,which, Wine works well enough, is crossfire better and if it is, is it worth the price?

plus, how often are upgrades provided and are they free?

seems very very fishy to me...

[MaxIBoy]

You can bundle GPL software along with GPL software. It's totally legal. The GPL components are under a different license.

You can also sell a completely GPLed product (for example, you could sell copies of Ubuntu on the street for $100000000 a piece. You wouldn't sell any, but it's legal to try.)

[Simian Man]

but Linux must be under GPL, there license is not GPL,

and multiple licenses of Linux? being limited to install Linux on only a few machines is not open-source, it is not under GPL, Linux is licensed under GPL, so you can install Linux on as many machines as you want, this may not be true of the programs and code they made, or have put in the package, but it is so for Linux, and they need to be clearer on that
Yes Linux is under the GPL, but Linux is a kernel - just a small part of what goes into a full Linux-based system like iMagicOS or Ubuntu. They couldn't modify the Linux kernel and distribute it under any license other than the GPL, but they *can* distribute a group of software some of which is GPLed (Linux, OpenOffice, KDE...) and some of which is not (CrossOver, their own apps...) and charge for the bundle. That is what I meant by "multiple licenses", and it is perfectly legal


in any case, why one would buy this product is beyond me....

you get everything in there with say Ubuntu...

I don't know all that much about Ubuntu's tech support, but Ubuntuforums seems adequate...

the only other thing I saw was crossfire,which, Wine works well enough, is crossfire better and if it is, is it worth the price?

plus, how often are upgrades provided and are they free?

seems very very fishy to me...
Crossover is supposed to work better than wine, but I haven't tried it. Also keep in mind that CrossOver sales help fund the wine project, so it is a good thing they are able to get some money for it.

Like I said, I wouldn't pay for this either, but it is perfectly legal.

[FraggedLocust]

but Linux must be under GPL, there license is not GPL,

and multiple licenses of Linux? being limited to install Linux on only a few machines is not open-source, it is not under GPL, Linux is licensed under GPL, so you can install Linux on as many machines as you want, this may not be true of the programs and code they made, or have put in the package, but it is so for Linux, and they need to be clearer on that.

I believe the GPL states you can charge whatever you want for a GPL licensed program or any of its derived works. And I believe you can also place restrictions on what you want the customers to do with your product as long as you let them have access to the source. I've only skimmed the wiki article on GPL, so I'm not to clear on GPL yet.

[Viranh]

Not that I agree with them, but they're only charging the going retail rate for that Acer Aspire One with iMagicOS. Walmart recently marked them down from $350 to $300, but that was only a month or two ago. So they're not even charging you to pre-install linux on the netbook. It's a pretty good deal for a newbie who doesn't know anything about installing linux. Of course for $350, I'd buy System 76's new netbook.

[Chilli Bob]

$79 is excellent value, and there should be more of this sort of thing. (Assuming it works, that is.)

Let me explain. I've just installed Jaunty a few days ago. Once it was installed I had to add all the restricted codecs, that took almost an hour thanks to my slow internet connection, then install the DVD libs. Then spend 2 hours fault-finding to get the DVDs playing (the problem was caused by VLC), and I havn't even tried getting my (non-supported) Brother printer working yet. That should take another half hour. So that comes to 3.5 hours (not including the 6 hours download time).

Now, if I price my time at $20/hr, that comes to $70. Add on $69.95 for the crossover licence, and you have near enough to $140. Someone newer to Linux would take a lot longer to set up Ubuntu, pushing the cost up to, or exceeding the price of a Vista licence, or not get it working at all. And wine will not give anywhere near the useability of Crossover (puts on flame suit).

Yes, I would not buy this because I enjoy spending my time doing geek stuff and don't put a price on my geeking time, but not everyone who wants to use linux is a geek. For them this would provide excellent value for money. (if, as I said, it actually works)

[TjankMjaster]

Yes, I would not buy this because I enjoy spending my time doing geek stuff and don't put a price on my geeking time, but not everyone who wants to use linux is a geek. For them this would provide excellent value for money. (if, as I said, it actually works)


That's a pretty big "IF".... Vista would be a good value IF it actually w,.... no,.. strike that,.. Vista is not, would not, will never be a good value.

Being fairly new to the linux scene,... my 'geek' experiences in getting Ubuntu to run is worth the time. It's a learning thing.

Again, I don't see anything new in MagicOS that you don't already get in a free distro, other than support (forums here have been more than adequate) and a lot of legal agreements (lawyers like those things.)

PS - Anyone have 79 bucks I could borrow? :lolflag:

[DracoJesi]

thanks for clearing that up...

this gets confusing though, because they said you can't install it on more than three pc's, the kernel being part of it and gpl, so isn't that taking away rights? I realize not all of it is GPL, .... but see I would have said in the license agreement that you can install the kernal and all the gpl stuff but not the non-gpl stuff instead of just being limited to not being able to install the kernal and other GPL stuff?

but then is the supposed to be understood while not clearly mentioned, since you usually can't go and pick every singel piece of code you want on install?

it may be legal, it may not be, but it's sure hard to tell, and thats never a good think...

speaking of monetary support for Linux, I think I'm going to go look at the Ubuntu store here in a bit...

which reminds me, I prefer the Ubuntu logo but as for the colors, I like the KDE logo, it has turquoise and purple on it :)

Edit: ok that last part was completely random and pointless...

[ade234uk]

How much of this $79 dollars is being put back in to Open Source?
I have no issues with people charging, providing they provide something free in return.

[Orlsend]

Its looks to me they wna to charge for ReactOS mixed with Linux.

[fatality_uk]

How much of this $79 dollars is being put back in to Open Source?
I have no issues with people charging, providing they provide something free in return.

Then that's a restriction that the GPL specifically didn't want to lend it name to. People can sell GPL'd software, perfectly legally, without having to put ANYTHING back.

Now from a moral point of view, taking others work and just selling it without providing anything in return has to be questioned, but if someone makes a new distro that provides added value, above and beyond that which is delivered in the base, then that's fine.

[swoll1980]

From what others have said, it seems that crossover alone covers the cost of the OS.

[I-75]

might be worth it for the incredible effects. and don't laugh about changing the name of konqueror. whenever someone asks why people don't like kde, the most common response is that people just don't like the 'k' branding on everything. smart move on their part.

I agree, the K is way over used...

[SomeGuyDude]

From what others have said, it seems that crossover alone covers the cost of the OS.

Which is hilarious, since CX is really, really not worth it.