How good is this computer? Considering buying it.

[xequence]

It is 300$ canadian. For you americans, thats 257$.

It is from a computer store in Toronto. Here it is:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008563&cid=170.45


It looks good since its upgradeable. Ill upgrade the RAM to 512MB. I might upgrade the processor to an AMD Athlon XP Barton. Someone said that was a good CPU... Ill get a 160GB hard drive for movies/music and have my OSes on the 80 GB one. It doesent include windows, which is good so I can install my own copy alongside Ubuntu or FreeBSD. (Ill try both, ive always wanted to try FreeBSD). Great thing is its got a 16X DVD+/-Writer, which is essential.

The only worry I have is this... The integrated graphics. Would I be able to pop in a 128MB nVidia graphics card if I wanted?

I just got back from a local PC store. They had horrible prices! Celeron + 512 mb ram + cd burner/dvd reader for 800$ I asked them if they could not give me windows with it and take off the price. "THEN HOW DO YOU PUT WINDOWS ON IT?" he said. I knew he was a microsoftie by then =O. I replied with "Well, I can use many other things you know". "Like what?". "Theres many other operating systems out there you know". I didnt feel like going into the whole explanation of Linux, FreeBSD, OSX, and what not.

[rfruth]

It looks very good except for the things you mentioned, needs more RAM, weak CPU & the integrated graphics. Should be able to disable on board video (via BIOS or a jumper) - yea should auto detect and that works 95 % of the time ...

[Dr. Nick]

I dont think you can puit a Athlon Xp in that, Its a socket 754 and as far as I know the Athlon Xp stopped at Soket A.

However the chip in their now would probably beat most Xp's and isnt that bad of a chip for the price. You cant tell if it has a AGP or not unless you contact them and get the motherboarrd manfu. and model number so that makes it a bit riskier

What does shipping and tax come out to? That price isnt real bad, but if shipping and tax was near 80-100 US I think their are better deals to be had elsewhere, or just custom buid one yourself.

EDIT
that chip is 75.50US from newegg, here is a refrence link, not sure if they ship internationally or if Canada has online vendos comparable
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104245

Also you can get DVD Burners for less than $50 US after rebate now quite often and hard drives are very cheap, aswell as ram. I put together a slightly faster computer for <300 but had some parts that I could reuse from my old which were proabably over 100$ worth

[red_Marvin]

Since it uses socket 754 I suppose it's AGP based, so popping in an AGP gfx card
should theoretically be no problem -IF it has a free AGP slot that is, and to know
that you would need to know what motherboard it is... Try mailing them.

If you're gonna put a lot of music/software/stuff on it you might want to consider
a bigger HDD, but that's something you can get later when the space gets tight.

It will not be a bleeding edge gaming rig, but if it's good or not is up to you and what
you want to use it for...

[mstlyevil]

First off I want to say it is a great buy. spend an extra $40 (US) and add 256 more memory and you will have a very adequate computer.


It looks good since its upgradeable. Ill upgrade the RAM to 512MB. I might upgrade the processor to an AMD Athlon XP Barton.

A AMD Athlon XP Barton is basically the same CPU as the Sempron. Also you can not put a Socket A Athlon XP in a socket 754 mother board. It has a different pin set, so it will not fit. You would have to change the MOBO to do this. In essence you would be going backwards and downgrading if you changed to a socket A MOBO and a Athlon XP.


The only worry I have is this... The integrated graphics. Would I be able to pop in a 128MB nVidia graphics card if I wanted?

You first have to check and see if the MOBO has an AGP or a PCI-E slot for the graphics card. I did not see the specs for that listed but my bet is it is an agp slot on an older 754 MOBO. You can put a Nvidia graphics AGP card in if it is an AGP up to a 6800 GT. If it is PCI-E you can put any PCI-E card in it including the top of the line card the 7800. The downside to PCI-E is if you plan on using an older card made before the 6 series, you can only get thos in an AGP interface. I would call the company and ask if video is upgradeable and ask what slot it has first.

[xequence]

I dont think you can puit a Athlon Xp in that, Its a socket 754 and as far as I know the Athlon Xp stopped at Soket A.

However the chip in their now would probably beat most Xp's and isnt that bad of a chip for the price. You cant tell if it has a AGP or not unless you contact them and get the motherboarrd manfu. and model number so that makes it a bit riskier

What does shipping and tax come out to? That price isnt real bad, but if shipping and tax was near 80-100 US I think their are better deals to be had elsewhere, or just custom buid one yourself.

I dont know about shipping, but I can just go down to Richmond Hill and pick it up.

After I upgrade it to 512MB RAM, could I play UT2003? UT2004?

And thats the best deal ive found around, yet.

[xequence]

f you're gonna put a lot of music/software/stuff on it you might want to consider
a bigger HDD, but that's something you can get later when the space gets tight.

Instead of an extra 160GB one I might do 300GB instead. I dont know :P



You first have to check and see if the MOBO has an AGP or a PCI-E slot for the graphics card. I did not see the specs for that listed but my bet is it is an agp slot on an older 754 MOBO. You can put a Nvidia graphics AGP card in if it is an AGP up to a 6800 GT. If it is PCI-E you can put any PCI-E card in it including the top of the line card the 7800. The downside to PCI-E is if you plan on using an older card made before the 6 series, you can only get thos in an AGP interface. I would call the company and ask if video is upgradeable and ask what slot it has first.

Ok, ill inquire about that. But it probably wont be a dealbreaker if I cant get better video, since its the best ive found yet.


A AMD Athlon XP Barton is basically the same CPU as the Sempron. Also you can put a Socket A Athlon XP in a socket 754 mother board. It has a different pin set, so it will not fit. You would have to change the MOBO to do this. In essence you would be going backwards and downgrading if you changed to a socket A MOBO and a Athlon XP.

Ok, ill stick with the sempron if I get it :P I do know that UT99 runs well in like 1200*1000 resolution on a 256MBRAM Celeron, so this should have no problem running UT2003 at 640*480 or 800*600.

[Dr. Nick]

You could play unreal with the mem in their now probably, if you had a good video card. The video however would be a killer, Depending on the integraed graphice linux may not have 3d acceleration for it so it wouldnt run at all, or run just not run well :(

I would however though look into gettnig a 512mb stick or ram for it and go to 768 instead of 512. Regular ddr is becoming dirt cheap these days, I paid 30ish US several months back for a Good name brand stick of 512 pc 3200

[mstlyevil]

I dont know about shipping, but I can just go down to Richmond Hill and pick it up.

After I upgrade it to 512MB RAM, could I play UT2003? UT2004?

And thats the best deal ive found around, yet.

You should be able to play them if you change the graphics card. I doubt seriously that the onboard graphics will handle those games to well. (3D on onbard gr4aphics is usually pretty weak.)

[xequence]

You should be able to play them if you change the graphics card. I doubt seriously that the onboard graphics will handle those games to well. (3D on onbard gr4aphics is usually pretty weak.)

You could play unreal with the mem in their now probably, if you had a good video card. The video however would be a killer, Depending on the integraed graphice linux may not have 3d acceleration for it so it wouldnt run at all, or run just not run well

On my computer now (700mhz celeron, 192MBRAM) UT99 runs decently enough and I use software rendering. I havnt gotten direct3d to work. (UT says my computer supports it, but when I select it the screen just goes black). And on my parents computer, as I said UT99 runs well in ultra high resolution using software rendering.

And I dont plan to use UT in linux. Ill dual boot. Its just to hard to get all the scripts and weird things set up when its much easier to get it working in windows.

[Dr. Nick]

If you are dual booting you would most likely be able to use software rendering in windows which would be fine.

I would contact them about agp avaibility, but if it doesnt have it and you dont plan on playing alot of newer games and dont mind lower resoulition and details then it looks like a good deal

If it has agp and you get a nvidia card you should be able to play it good and realtively easy in linux and windows

[xequence]

I dont mind 640*480. Its fine for me, obviously id like to have something like an Athlon 64 X2 with a 512MB nVidia graphics card and four 500GB hard drives with 4GB RAM but that just isnt in my budget :P

Oh, and I have about 530$ to spend in total.

[Kuolio]

Sorry for saying this a bit blunt and in your face style, I dont mean to be mean or attack you in any ways.

That's a crappy new computer put together from lastyears parts and stuffed in quite ugly case. Don't expect it to run for very long, as with that price you wont have any of the following inside it: Good fans (quiet or effective creating decent airflow), good powersuply unit (good ones usualy cost close to 100$), good quality mobo (what, is that melting plasting and condensators I smell?) and the case will propably be without any noiseabsorption, airflowplanning, good holders for optical or harddrives etc.

With a mobo that uses AGP and socket 754, there is no way to update your graphics card to a new PCI-E model or your CPU to i.e. venice or sandiego athlons or dualcore. PSU in that "package" is likely not to hold up to even todays new GPU's and CPU's powerconsumption. Thus, when time comes for the next update-time, you need to replace everything. If your cheap fans wont die before that and your overheating CPU melt over your mobo.

There just can't be good quality with a very low price. Put in 300$ more and you'll then get some close-to-decent stuff that you can upgrade later. Don't buy this, as in the long (or in a very short) run buying new already old computer is just silly. Best "bang for buck" lies somewhere about 900-1100$ for a new computer. Generaly speaking that is.

[xequence]

That's a crappy new computer put together from lastyears parts and stuffed in quite ugly case. Don't expect it to run for very long, as with that price you wont have any of the following inside it: Good fans (quiet or effective creating decent airflow), good powersuply unit (good ones usualy cost close to 100$), good quality mobo (what, is that melting plasting and condensators I smell?) and the case will propably be without any noiseabsorption, airflowplanning, good holders for optical or harddrives etc.

Cant say I like the case that much either. But im not one of the people like you seem to be that think a computer CANT run with less then 2GB RAM and a dual core processor.

Getting a computer for 1000$ just isnt a reality for me. I just cant afford it and it will take along time for me to be able to.


With a mobo that uses AGP and socket 754, there is no way to update your graphics card to a new PCI-E model or your CPU to i.e. venice or sandiego athlons or dualcore.

Again, you mistake me for yourself or someone else who has alot of money. I doubt I will get a dual core processor within the next 5-7 years.


There just can't be good quality with a very low price. Put in 300$ more and you'll then get some close-to-decent stuff that you can upgrade later. Don't buy this, as in the long (or in a very short) run buying new already old computer is just silly. Best "bang for buck" lies somewhere about 900-1100$ for a new computer. Generaly speaking that is.

If I have to pay 600$ just to get a close to decent computer I shouldent even buy one at all.

Its the way the tech world is: You buy your new 400$ 512MB graphics card and its obsolete within a year.

[mstlyevil]

I just priced parts to build your own online at newegg.com. For $297.22 (US) you can get a 754 socket MOBO with 1 PCI-E 16x slot, onbaord Nvidia graphics and SATA connections. The CPU is a Sempron 64 2800, the HD is a 100 GB Maxtor SATA I 7200rpm. I also found 512 mb of RAM, A NEC DVD burner and a case with a 400 watt power supply. So for close to what you would have bought that system for you can have a computer with a little better parts if you do the work yourself. You should ask around for the Canadian equivilent to newegg and see if your parents or some one could order the parts for you if you give them the money. My suggestion is to build so you know what you have.

[mstlyevil]

Sorry for saying this a bit blunt and in your face style, I dont mean to be mean or attack you in any ways.

That's a crappy new computer put together from lastyears parts and stuffed in quite ugly case. Don't expect it to run for very long, as with that price you wont have any of the following inside it: Good fans (quiet or effective creating decent airflow), good powersuply unit (good ones usualy cost close to 100$), good quality mobo (what, is that melting plasting and condensators I smell?) and the case will propably be without any noiseabsorption, airflowplanning, good holders for optical or harddrives etc.

With a mobo that uses AGP and socket 754, there is no way to update your graphics card to a new PCI-E model or your CPU to i.e. venice or sandiego athlons or dualcore. PSU in that "package" is likely not to hold up to even todays new GPU's and CPU's powerconsumption. Thus, when time comes for the next update-time, you need to replace everything. If your cheap fans wont die before that and your overheating CPU melt over your mobo.

There just can't be good quality with a very low price. Put in 300$ more and you'll then get some close-to-decent stuff that you can upgrade later. Don't buy this, as in the long (or in a very short) run buying new already old computer is just silly. Best "bang for buck" lies somewhere about 900-1100$ for a new computer. Generaly speaking that is.

You are not wrong, and xquence knows this already but he is a 14 year old kid who is taking his savings to upgrade from an ancient computer. Not everyone can afford a good midrange computer so the cheap one for some people is a good option. Later when he gets older he will build that dream machine.

[xequence]

I just priced parts to build your own online at newegg.com. For $297.22 (US) you can get a 754 socket MOBO with 1 PCI-E 16x slot, onbaord Nvidia graphics and SATA connections. The CPU is a Sempron 64 2800, the HD is a 100 GB Maxtor SATA I 7200rpm. I also found 512 mb of RAM, A NEC DVD burner and a case with a 400 watt power supply. So for close to what you would have bought that system for you can have a computer with a little better parts if you do the work yourself. You should ask around for the Canadian equivilent to newegg and see if your parents or some one could order the parts for you if you give them the money. My suggestion is to build so you know what you have.

I just dont have any clue about how to put a computer together. I dont know where the motherboard goes, the only thing I think I might be able to do is change the RAM.

And most other online stores need to charge for shipping. Thats another 100$...

And I dont know if there is any canadian equivilant to newegg, the store that computer is from is the closest ive found yet.


You are not wrong, and xquence knows this already but he is a 14 year old kid who is taking his savings to upgrade from an ancient computer. Not everyone can afford a good midrange computer so the cheap one for some people is a good option. Later when he gets older he will build that dream machine.

I know its not nearly as good as a 1000$ computer but im questioning the fact that it wont fun for very long. Even my 10 year old monitor is still going strong, and its said to be from a very bad manufacturer. (Packard bell. The monitor im using now came with a 75mhz pentium with 16 MB RAM and a 1.2GB hard drive ;))

[mstlyevil]

I just dont have any clue about how to put a computer together. I dont know where the motherboard goes, the only thing I think I might be able to do is change the RAM.

And most other online stores need to charge for shipping. Thats another 100$...

And I dont know if there is any canadian equivilant to newegg, the store that computer is from is the closest ive found yet.

It is not hard at all. If you can put together a jigsaw puzzle, you can put together a computer. Most of your plugs go in one way. You are smart I have faith in you. Shipping would probally be closer to $40. I also put it together on the quick so the actual price could be lower.

For those Canadians out there could you point xquence in the right direction on a good online computer parts retailer. Your help would be appreciated.

[poofyhairguy]

You should be able to play them if you change the graphics card. I doubt seriously that the onboard graphics will handle those games to well. (3D on onbard gr4aphics is usually pretty weak.)


Looking it over the biggest problem with that computer is the power supply. 300 Watts sucks- trust me I know from experiance.

Without changing the power supply the biggest card you can put in there is a Nvidia 5xxx model...and that would not be fun with 3D games (since that line was disgraceful). A Nvidia 6600 GT like I have will do the job, but I can promise that it will melt that 300 Watt power supply. So if you plan to get a bigger 3D card, you have to add in the cost of a 400+ Watt power supply as well.

Everything else looks ok.

[xequence]

It is not hard at all. If you can put together a jigsaw puzzle, you can put together a computer. Most of your plugs go in one way. You are smart I have faith in you. Shipping would probally be closer to $40. I also put it together on the quick so the actual price could be lower.

For those Canadians out there could you point xquence in the right direction on a good online computer parts retailer. Your help would be appreciated.

Well, I would love for you to give me the links to the parts of that computer if you have them saved.

Since the thing I am most worried about is buying one thing that might not be compatable with another.


Looking it over the biggest problem with that computer is the power supply. 300 Watts sucks- trust me I know from experiance.

Without changing the power supply the biggest card you can put in there is a Nvidia 5xxx model...and that would not be fun with 3D games (since that line was disgraceful). A Nvidia 6600 GT like I have will do the job, but I can promise that it will melt that 300 Watt power supply. So if you plan to get a bigger 3D card, you have to add in the cost of a 400+ Watt power supply as well.

How much does a 6600GT cost?

[poofyhairguy]

How much does a 6600GT cost?

$134. But honestly a 6600 normal is not that bad and it runs around $100.

[Iandefor]

You are not wrong, and xquence knows this already but he is a 14 year old kid who is taking his savings to upgrade from an ancient computer. Not everyone can afford a good midrange computer so the cheap one for some people is a good option. Later when he gets older he will build that dream machine. Exactly. For example: I'm 15, I've got almost no income. No way I can afford a nice graphics card or a dual-core processor. I can, however, net myself a relatively fast computer for less than $600. For instance, for my newest computer, I managed to fit 1 GB of RAM, an AMD Sempron 2600+ processor, and a cd-burner (come on, I don't need to burn DVD's; why drop the money for a dvd burner?) and a pretty small hard drive which has four times the amount of disc space I need (it's around ~40 GB). I was only set back $355 US after including the cost of a chassis and motherboard with integrated video, and that price includes the cost of shipping. It's not the fastest machine I've used (a pair of g5 computers, each with 2 full GB of ram and dual 2 ghz g5 processors are tied for the title of fastest computer I've ever used), but it's close. Damn close.

My suggestion to Xequence is to configure and build your system from the ground up; it'll have exactly what you need, you know intimately your hardware, and, usually, it's not too expensive (Unless you go wild and get something like a Media Center). Plus, if there are areas where you don't need the best and the brightest, you can dummy down the specs. For instance, I could have bought a dual layer DVD+/- R/W with a huge cache, but I don't need it. I don't even need a DVD-ROM drive. So: I went and bought a CD-RW drive, which fits my needs perfectly well. I only had to pay $30 for a decent drive, too. I highly doubt your situation is the same, but I hope you get the general idea.


I just got back from a local PC store. They had horrible prices! Celeron + 512 mb ram + cd burner/dvd reader for 800$ I asked them if they could not give me windows with it and take off the price. "THEN HOW DO YOU PUT WINDOWS ON IT?" he said. I knew he was a microsoftie by then =O. I replied with "Well, I can use many other things you know". "Like what?". "Theres many other operating systems out there you know". I didnt feel like going into the whole explanation of Linux, FreeBSD, OSX, and what not. He said that?! What?! How does someone like him survive to reproductive age? YOU'VE FAILED ME, DARWIN! ;)

[xequence]

Id really love to build my own computer, but I just dont have enough technical knowledge. For example, I dont know what motherboard would go with what processor. I dont know if my motherboard can have whatever ammount of pins on the RAM. I dont know what FSB speeds are for what.

I dont even know what parts I need. If there was one central guide that told me what I need and what works with what, id be happy. Or if mstlyevil posts the links to the stuff on newegg he found id be happy.

[mstlyevil]

I didn't save them but I will list some specs for you at the end of this post to help you compare. If you fell after that you are getting a better deal on the computer you spec'd then by all means buy it. Look at all of your options before making a decision.

My Gigabyte 6600 GT PCI-E cost me $120 US. If this is too much now you could always save for it later. (And possibly get a better price for it then.)

CPU- Buy a Sempron 64 instead of a 32 bit Sempron. Ther is no price difference between the 2 but you will be 64 bit ready.

MOBO-Buy a 754 socket with a nvidia chipset and nvidia onboard graphics. The graphics will give you better Linux compatibility and I have never had a problem with Linux not being compatible with a Nvidia chipset.

HD-Buy a 7200RPM 8 Meg buffer drive with a SATA interface. SATA is now no more expensive than the old IDE drive (PATA) but is the better technology. Stick with a name brand like Western Digital, Maxtor, Samsung or Seagate.

MEM-Generic is ok if that is all you can afford. I have used it in the past and it has served me well. If you buy 512MB get 2 256 sticks so you can run in dual channel.

Case-Look at user reviews on the case you are considering buying. Since you are on a tight budget go ahead and get one with at least a 400 watt power supply. I know some people will tell you never go cheap on the PS but since you are cashed strapped that is probally not an option for you. You can usually pick up a decent case with PS for around $30 (US). I have bought like this before and so far I have been lucky and had no real issues with the PS.

DVD-You can pick up a burner for around $35 (US). Make sure it is a DVD burner and not a combo drive. A combo drive will burn cd's but will only play DVD's. A DVD burner will burn both so that is not a problem. NEC makes a decent cheap burner as does Liteon and MSI. The thing that makes them cheaper is that they usually are OEM and that they are a little slower in burn speeds. Still a slow DVD burner is better than a fast CD burner.

Shop using those specs and you can probally build your $257 computer with a bigger HD and a little better components. You could always save and add the Video card later.

Edit: On the ram it will be 184 pin unbufferd DDR 400 (PC3200)

[majikstreet]

this has been an interesting thread!

I've always wanted to build my own computer, but like the OP (can't spell his name!), I don't have the hardware knowledge to build a computer. The most I've done is put in ram and pci cards.... Plus I don't have the money... or the need for a new computer!

-majik

[WildTangent]

I've shopped at Canada Computers before, and they really do have the best prices in the GTA.

Hows this for a better system:
CPU (socket 754 Sempron 2800): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=007658&cid=CPU.183) $89
Motherboard (Asus K8N4-E Deluxe w/ PCI-E x16): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006847&cid=MB.259) $115
RAM (512MB DDR-400): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=002866&cid=RAM.178) $55
HDD (Seagate 80GB SATA): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=000152&cid=HD.96) $72
Optical Drive (LG 16x DVD-RW): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008023&cid=CR.184) $47
Case (generic w/ 400W PSU): (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008609&cid=CS.664) $33

TOTAL: $411

As you can see, you get PCI-E, so you can upgrade your graphics later.

PLEASE READ THIS:I purposely left out graphics, because I'm not sure how much you will have left in your budget after buying the rest, you'll have to fill it with whatever you can afford. If you look through the PCI-E (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProdList&cmd=pl&id=999.243) page on Canada Computers website, you can find some cards for as low as $65.

Unfortunately, Canada Computers doesnt seem to sell socket 939 Semprons, but you find a place that does, you can get that, and some other motherboard maybe even one of those new ones with the built in Nvidia graphics, they're actually pretty good. You may even save more money if you go with 939, and be able to upgrade the CPU as well.

As for building, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it on MSN, AIM or IRC.

Happy hunting anyway, let us know of any revisions to the plan.

-Wild

[Iandefor]

I didn't know Sempron came in Socket 939!

[WildTangent]

I didn't know Sempron came in Socket 939!
I'm fairly certain it does...I could be wrong...

Yup...I'm wrong. Whatever possessed me to think that, I do not know. Perhaps investing in a Athlon 64 3000 would be a worthy investment? Perhaps you could borrow money from your parents.

Edit the 2nd: Not around now...but they're coming!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/28/nvidia_sempron_939/

Edit the 3rd: Ok, got some 939 stuff here,
Asus A8N-VM CSM Socket 939 nVidia GeForce 6150 (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008728&cid=MB.693) $100
Pretty much same as above...only with a slightly less capable IGP (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008729&cid=MB.693) $87
Athlon 64 3000 (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006028&cid=CPU.611) $149
With both of these motherboards, you get SATAII support, and SATAII drives aren't much more expensive than their SATA counterparts. The Seagate drive I recommended is only $1 more for SATAII.

-Wild

[Iandefor]

mmm... Geforce 6100. I love it. It's perfect for desktop graphics acceleration (Compositing, etc) and Nexuiz :-D. I'd been wondering about the Sempron thing, because in order to make my computer affordable, I had to get a Sempron rather than an Athlon XP, and I couldn't find a socket 939 Sempron for the life of me. So, I switched out motherboards and bought a socket 754 Sempron.

[mstlyevil]

I'm fairly certain it does...I could be wrong...

Yup...I'm wrong. Whatever possessed me to think that, I do not know. Perhaps investing in a Athlon 64 3000 would be a worthy investment? Perhaps you could borrow money from your parents.

Edit the 2nd: Not around now...but they're coming!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/28/nvidia_sempron_939/

Edit the 3rd: Ok, got some 939 stuff here,
Asus A8N-VM CSM Socket 939 nVidia GeForce 6150 (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008728&cid=MB.693) $100
Pretty much same as above...only with a slightly less capable IGP (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008729&cid=MB.693) $87
Athlon 64 3000 (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006028&cid=CPU.611) $149
With both of these motherboards, you get SATAII support, and SATAII drives aren't much more expensive than their SATA counterparts. The Seagate drive I recommended is only $1 more for SATAII.

-Wild


Actually it does. AMD has started making 939 Semprons but they have not hit the retail market yet. When socket M comes out this spring, the 939 socket is going to become the budget line and the 754 is going to cease to exist. (When the current stock runs out that is.) I do agree though that if you find a 939 Sempron then you should get that and a 939 MOBO. I just can't seem to find any retailers that carry them yet.

[WildTangent]

Actually it does. AMD has started making 939 Semprons but they have not hit the retail market yet. When socket M comes out this spring, the 939 socket is going to become the budget line and the 754 is going to cease to exist. (When the current stock runs out that is.) I do agree though that if you find a 939 Sempron then you should get that and a 939 MOBO. I just can't seem to find any retailers that carry them yet.
That does not bode well for my current rig... :(

I can afford to replace the CPU and mobo this summer for my birthday...but not my 2GB of memory as well :S

-Wild

[mstlyevil]

That does not bode well for my current rig... :(

I can afford to replace the CPU and mobo this summer for my birthday...but not my 2GB of memory as well :S

-Wild

You should be good into next year because it is my understanding AMD still plans to produce 939 socket Athlon 64 cpu's until 2007. There is still some life left in the 939 socket. The biggest change with socket M is going to be the CPU's will be 940 pin and will use DDR2 instead of DDR1 RAM. I don't think it will be enough reason to change the motherbaord and CPU. Right now AMD with DDR1 out performs P4 in memory benchmarks even when a P4 is using DDR2. I just do not think there is going to be that much of an increase in performance.

So don't fret. Buy your memory first and then upgrade the CPU a few months later and you will still have one of the fastest computers on the market without a new MOBO.

[poofyhairguy]

That does not bode well for my current rig... :(

I can afford to replace the CPU and mobo this summer for my birthday...but not my 2GB of memory as well :S

-Wild

Not a big deal. Everything I have read says that DDR2 does not give the performance increase one would expect. In fact....its 5-10% slower in some cases. AMD is thinking of switching to DD3 as fast as possible.

After discovering this I went ahead and bought a dual core socket 939 computer.

[xequence]

I didn't save them but I will list some specs for you at the end of this post to help you compare. If you fell after that you are getting a better deal on the computer you spec'd then by all means buy it. Look at all of your options before making a decision.

My Gigabyte 6600 GT PCI-E cost me $120 US. If this is too much now you could always save for it later. (And possibly get a better price for it then.)

CPU- Buy a Sempron 64 instead of a 32 bit Sempron. Ther is no price difference between the 2 but you will be 64 bit ready.

MOBO-Buy a 754 socket with a nvidia chipset and nvidia onboard graphics. The graphics will give you better Linux compatibility and I have never had a problem with Linux not being compatible with a Nvidia chipset.

HD-Buy a 7200RPM 8 Meg buffer drive with a SATA interface. SATA is now no more expensive than the old IDE drive (PATA) but is the better technology. Stick with a name brand like Western Digital, Maxtor, Samsung or Seagate.

MEM-Generic is ok if that is all you can afford. I have used it in the past and it has served me well. If you buy 512MB get 2 256 sticks so you can run in dual channel.

Case-Look at user reviews on the case you are considering buying. Since you are on a tight budget go ahead and get one with at least a 400 watt power supply. I know some people will tell you never go cheap on the PS but since you are cashed strapped that is probally not an option for you. You can usually pick up a decent case with PS for around $30 (US). I have bought like this before and so far I have been lucky and had no real issues with the PS.

DVD-You can pick up a burner for around $35 (US). Make sure it is a DVD burner and not a combo drive. A combo drive will burn cd's but will only play DVD's. A DVD burner will burn both so that is not a problem. NEC makes a decent cheap burner as does Liteon and MSI. The thing that makes them cheaper is that they usually are OEM and that they are a little slower in burn speeds. Still a slow DVD burner is better than a fast CD burner.

Shop using those specs and you can probally build your $257 computer with a bigger HD and a little better components. You could always save and add the Video card later.

Edit: On the ram it will be 184 pin unbufferd DDR 400 (PC3200)


Hows this for a better system:
CPU (socket 754 Sempron 2800): $89
Motherboard (Asus K8N4-E Deluxe w/ PCI-E x16): $115
RAM (512MB DDR-400): $55
HDD (Seagate 80GB SATA): $72
Optical Drive (LG 16x DVD-RW): $47
Case (generic w/ 400W PSU): $33

Are those the only things I need? Dont I need other things like fans? And Wild, what is the advantage of that computer over the 300$ one originally posted? Besides the ability to upgrade the graphics card and a better looking case.

[mstlyevil]

Are those the only things I need? Dont I need other things like fans?

Just read the specs on the case. If it does not include at least one fan do noy buy it. You will get a fan and heatsink for the processor in the same box as the processor if you buy a retail package. With your specs you should not need more than one fan.

All the cables you need should come with your MOBO. The case and PS will come with all your power plugs. You may need a SATA power adapter if your case does not have one. But if you buy Western Digital it will hook up either way so you would not need a SATA power connector for it.

[xequence]

As for building, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it on MSN, AIM or IRC.

Ill probably get AIM and contact you about that, and some other questions sometime =)

So, with that motherboard you posted, it will support any nVidia card PCI-E card?

[ninotob]

Assembling a computer is easy.

Young'uns -- don't be afraid to "build" a computer. I put "build" in quotes because all you do is plug pieces into each other. Someone mentioned that it's as easy as a jig-saw puzzle. That's correct.

The best resource for such a project is a local knowledgable store. You walk in, pick your motherboard/ask for suggestions. Then you ask, what CPU fits this? What's the correct memory? What video cards can I put on this mobo?

You compare prices and features and take the stuff home. Put the CPU on the motherboard -- it comes with instructions, fits only one way. Attach the fan according to the provided instructions. Open the case you bought. The motherboard will only fit one way. Screw it down. Attach power cable to mobo, cpu fan cable to mobo. Attach cables for the case lights and front USB/sound junk (the quality of documentation varies here -- have the people at the store open the mobo so you can read the instruction booklet. If it's too confusing on this point, get a different mobo). Attach the cables to your drives. Place them in their respective slots and screw them down. Attach drive cables to your mobo. Plug power into your drives. Plug memory in the slots -- goes one way. Plug video card into slot -- goes one way. Plug other cards if you got 'em. Close case, attach powercord, monitor cable, keyboard and mouse. You're done.

If you've ever assembled cheap particleboard furniture, you can put together a computer. Think about, companies pay third world workers almost nothing to assemble machines. With all of your advantages in education and information resources -- of course you are capable.

Some hints: Don't wear wool socks and rub your feet on the carpet. Best to do it in the kitchen -- touch your faucet frequently (it's grounded so discharges static that may build up on you). Don't use a magnetic screwdriver.

[mstlyevil]

Ill probably get AIM and contact you about that, and some other questions sometime =)

So, with that motherboard you posted, it will support any nVidia card PCI-E card?

That motherboard will. It does not have onbaord graphics but if you can scrape up a little more money you could get a PCI-E GC.

Here goes one for 111.19 (CD)

http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008021&cid=999.243

[xequence]

The best resource for such a project is a local knowledgable store. You walk in, pick your motherboard/ask for suggestions. Then you ask, what CPU fits this? What's the correct memory? What video cards can I put on this mobo?


The only local computer store I know of really is clueless...


That motherboard will. It does not have onbaord graphics but if you can scrape up a little more money you could get a PCI-E GC.

Here goes one for 111.19 (CD)

http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008021&cid=999 .243

Is there a big difference between the 110$ 256MB card there and lets say... A 300$ 256MB card?

[mstlyevil]

The only local computer store I know of really is clueless...



Is there a big difference between the 110$ 256MB card there and lets say... A 300$ 256MB card?

Yes there is a big difference. A $300 card is a upper middle/highend card. It has a faster GPU and faster memory. It also has more pixel pipelines for more realistic 3D at higher resolutions. The card I showed you will play your games at the resolution and criteria of price and performance you set in your previous post. It is a low middle end card and is adequate for budget users. I only recommend high dollar cards for hardcore gamers and those that need it for graphic intensive programs like video editing and auto cad. When buying a graphics card you just have to ask yourself what gives me the best price vs performance ratio for what I do. Then you make a decision on how much to spend on it.

[tseliot]

Ok, perhaps it's too naive of me but I think you should check that the motherboard you want to buy is supported by current Linux kernels (Google can answer this question).

I've had some compatibility problems with a computer I bought.

[mstlyevil]

Ok, perhaps it's too naive of me but I think you should check that the motherboard you want to buy is supported by current Linux kernels (Google can answer this question).

I've had some compatibility problems with a computer I bought.

It is an ASUS with a Nvidia nforce 4 chipset. It is supported by the kernel. I have a Nforce 4 chipset on my MOBO and Ubuntu configured everything no problem whatsoever.

[drizek]

If youre interested, i just bought a laptop and am wanting to get rid of my old desktop. its pretty decent, but it wont be as upgradable as the one with the nforce4 chipset(no SATA, pcie). anyway, the case sucks, so i can just send you the insides and hten you can buy your own case and put it together. its got a miniATX nforce2 mobo(fits in just about any case), a gig of ram(pc3200, generic stuff, but it works), a 2800 barton and an AGP 6600GT. I also have a 16x Dual layer dvd burner, but ive only been able to burn cds with it in linux :(. So youll have to buy a dvd burner, harddrive(IDE) and a case.

Overall, it will be faster than the one you configured with teh 6600LE and 512 ram, but upgradability will be more limited.

Im not really sure about a price, just want to see if youre interested first and we can take it from there...

(and i hope that this post isnt against forum rules or anything, it wasnt meant to be spam)

[truthfatal]

The sempron box in my sig cost about 500$ (CAD) it also has a cheapo DvdRom. no floppy drive. and a 200GB HD

so it seems the price is comparable for what you get.

[xequence]

I doubt ill need a floppy drive ether, but I will need a dvd burner probably.

[BLTicklemonster]

Git 'er done! Decent price dude. Slap a good nvidia card in there, and an extra 768 megs of ram, and you're good to go!


(I wouldn't buy a 64 bit processor, myself, but hey I hear they kick)

[Mr_J_]

For the price it has it's not bad.

I wouldn't buy it, unless it's for a file server that won't use anything but Command line.

Just buy some randomly cheap RAM and a cheap nvidia GPU and you got yourself a computer usable for linux.

The 754 socket is already discontinued, which means all the upgrades you might find are already out there and lowering price, it also means this computer is already considerably outdated.

If it's cheap you want, then you found a bargain.

GPU'wise it's AGP as someone mentioned, and that is also discontinued or soon to be... Anyway! Linux doesn't need so much fancy stuff to run.

Does it fit your needs? If so. Buy it. A few upgrades and it's a fine bargain.

Upgrades recomended:
RAM - Make total RAM 1GB
GPU - Nvidia 6200 TurboCache should be fine
LAN - WiFi card if you don't have one. It's worth the money. No cables is sweet. I have an MSI PC54G2 which is out-of-the-box with Ubuntu. Never tried WPA or WEP so I don't know about those, but I think WEP works.

It'll add some money, but it'll be worth it and you don't need to do it now.
Except maybe the GPU which would be just on the safe side.

[BLTicklemonster]

Wifi for a desktop? Sorry, but I'm a hard wired kinda guy, if he had a laptop (HAD to have a laptop, couldn't do without a laptop) then I'd see getting wifi, but he plays online games, so hard wired would suit him better.

I think more bang for the buck is his primary consideration, so probably what he is looking for is the most machine he can get for the price. Upgradability (did I just make a new word?) would be nice at that price, is there a machine that will support the new cpus and video cards? If so, that would be awesome.

[mstlyevil]

Wifi for a desktop? Sorry, but I'm a hard wired kinda guy, if he had a laptop (HAD to have a laptop, couldn't do without a laptop) then I'd see getting wifi, but he plays online games, so hard wired would suit him better.

I think more bang for the buck is his primary consideration, so probably what he is looking for is the most machine he can get for the price. Upgradability (did I just make a new word?) would be nice at that price, is there a machine that will support the new cpus and video cards? If so, that would be awesome.

The new socket 939 Sempron machines coming out still offer decent upgradeability but they probally will still be slightly more than this machine in cost. Socket M is coming out to replace the 939 socket in a few months for the Athlon 64 series but AMD has pledged to continue to support the 939 socket for the A64 until early 2007.

[BLTicklemonster]

The new socket 939 Sempron machines coming out still offer decent upgradeability but they probally will still be slightly more than this machine in cost. Socket M is coming out to replace the 939 socket in a few months for the Athlon 64 series but AMD has pledged to continue to support the 939 socket for the A64 until early 2007.
Sweet!

[xequence]

Sweet!

So... Should I go to the store and ask them if they can give me that computer, but with socket 939 instead?


Wifi for a desktop? Sorry, but I'm a hard wired kinda guy, if he had a laptop (HAD to have a laptop, couldn't do without a laptop) then I'd see getting wifi, but he plays online games, so hard wired would suit him better.

I am accually considering getting wifi, as our router is compatable with both and I want to have my computer upstairs in my room... But I still dont know what I will do.


I think more bang for the buck is his primary consideration, so probably what he is looking for is the most machine he can get for the price. Upgradability (did I just make a new word?) would be nice at that price, is there a machine that will support the new cpus and video cards? If so, that would be awesome.

Id like it to be upgradeable, yep :P


RAM - Make total RAM 1GB
GPU - Nvidia 6200 TurboCache should be fine
LAN - WiFi card if you don't have one. It's worth the money. No cables is sweet. I have an MSI PC54G2 which is out-of-the-box with Ubuntu. Never tried WPA or WEP so I don't know about those, but I think WEP works.


I dont have unlimited cash. I have 550$ canadian, just so everyone knows :P

I will probably get a 64MB nVidia card... Dont know anything about that 6200 thingy.

Wait.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=006619&cid=999.243&PHPSESSID=0a7f44a6b482bf60bb04c919d1241b78

Is that the card you were talking about? Its cheap. I might consider buying it.


The 754 socket is already discontinued, which means all the upgrades you might find are already out there and lowering price, it also means this computer is already considerably outdated.

Any computer you buy will be outdated in a year.


GPU'wise it's AGP as someone mentioned, and that is also discontinued or soon to be... Anyway! Linux doesn't need so much fancy stuff to run.

Neither windows nor linux need anything more then built in graphics :)


Does it fit your needs? If so. Buy it. A few upgrades and it's a fine bargain.

Seems to fit my needs... I dont need something like dual 512MB graphics cards and 4GB RAM and a dual core 64bit athlon processor... Thats overkill.

Ill be playing UT (definitally), ut2003 (maybe), ut2004 (probably), watching movies, listening to music, encoding movies and music, etc. I wont be playing Battlefield 2 however :P


OK... If I get it I will:

Upgrade RAM to 512MB (probably when I get it)
Get a 160 GB hard drive (sometime)
Get a nVidia 64MB or 128MB card

[BLTicklemonster]

OK... If I get it I will:

Upgrade RAM to 512MB (probably when I get it)
Get a 160 GB hard drive (sometime)
Get a nVidia 64MB or 128MB card


Nice machine. You will be playing ut2k4 on it. 2k3 is like not really played much at all any more. And there's zark servers in 2k4, too. (have you ever played it? You might not like it now that you are used to UT, but some people look over the total different game play and all, and still like it. Let me know, we'll hit some servers together, I have it on my ubuntu, but I don't know how it does with that gimpy little video card I'm using, lol, but I'm about to find out)

[curtis]

Looking it over the biggest problem with that computer is the power supply. 300 Watts sucks- trust me I know from experiance.

Without changing the power supply the biggest card you can put in there is a Nvidia 5xxx model...and that would not be fun with 3D games (since that line was disgraceful). A Nvidia 6600 GT like I have will do the job, but I can promise that it will melt that 300 Watt power supply. So if you plan to get a bigger 3D card, you have to add in the cost of a 400+ Watt power supply as well.

Everything else looks ok.
Personally I would not say the 5xxx series was that bad, I have had no issues with the Geforce 5200 cards.
But I have heard bad stuff about some other 5xxx models.
If you have enough money though, do go with the 6xxx series.

[xequence]

Nice machine. You will be playing ut2k4 on it. 2k3 is like not really played much at all any more. And there's zark servers in 2k4, too. (have you ever played it? You might not like it now that you are used to UT, but some people look over the total different game play and all, and still like it. Let me know, we'll hit some servers together, I have it on my ubuntu, but I don't know how it does with that gimpy little video card I'm using, lol, but I'm about to find out)

The 32MB nVidia one? =P

I guess I wont play ut2003 then =P And no, ive never played ut2004. I tried the ut2003 demo on my current computer but it didnt run very well ;)


Personally I would not say the 5xxx series was that bad, I have had no issues with the Geforce 5200 cards.
But I have heard bad stuff about some other 5xxx models.
If you have enough money though, do go with the 6xxx series.

Ive heard bad things about the 5xxx ones I think.

[curtis]

I would probably go with a 754 socket motherboard though, nVidia Geforce FX 5200 (Or better, depending on price here in the U.K. stuff is more expensive...)
a decent sized SATA drive (80GiB-120GiB)
and a Sempron or cheap Athlon processor (Might be harder to get a cheap one, 2400 and below got discontinued)
Make sure you get a 400w PSU and a decent fan though included in your case like some other people have said (Sorry forgot names)
And as other people have said, building a computer is easy.
Just make sure you watch out for electro-static, you don't want to fry all your brand new hardware :mad:
Anyway, I hope that you manage to find a good deal.

[xequence]

I would probably go with a 754 socket motherboard though, nVidia Geforce FX 5200 (Or better, depending on price here in the U.K. stuff is more expensive...)

Why socket 754? Is it alot cheaper the 939? I thought someone said it was only a bit cheaper.


And as other people have said, building a computer is easy.

How would I know what is compatable with what? What if I bought a graphics card and realised it wasnt compatable with the motherboard, but the processor I got was only compatable with that motherboard? =P

Oh, and that one I pointed out has a 400w PSU.

[BLTicklemonster]

I don't think you will have much to worry about regarding the compatability, just make sure when you purchase everything that the person selling it to you understands that "this is all going into one box".

Hey, you could build this one yourself: http://www.metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/whiskypc/index_eng !!!

[xequence]

I don't think you will have much to worry about regarding the compatability,

I have to ask about AGP or PCI-E for video card though :)



just make sure when you purchase everything that the person selling it to you understands that "this is all going into one box".


What do you mean?



Hey, you could build this one yourself: http://www.metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/whiskypc/index_eng !!!

Build it, put OSx86 on it, and sell it as generation 2 of the Mac Mini =)

[BLTicklemonster]

pcie or apg are good, either are great, the difference is above my pay grade, :)
the fx5200 in my son's computer is an evga pci slot, and it's unreal the quality of the images. (my old one darn it)


Making sure the fellow knows they go in the same box, i.e. computer. Say you were to find a great deal on an older amptron m810lr, and wanted to put a video card in it that uses 8x agp. Not gonna work, you'll get worse graphic performance than you are seeing right now because that motherboard can't deal with the card. (okay, maybe it was a different amtron amptron however its spelled, but I had this same thing happen a while back when I inherited a cheap motherboard and tried using it with an ati and an nvidia card, both were unable to be used for gaming)


... a Mac-hic-up?

[xequence]

Making sure the fellow knows they go in the same box, i.e. computer. Say you were to find a great deal on an older amptron m810lr, and wanted to put a video card in it that uses 8x agp. Not gonna work, you'll get worse graphic performance than you are seeing right now because that motherboard can't deal with the card. (okay, maybe it was a different amtron amptron however its spelled, but I had this same thing happen a while back when I inherited a cheap motherboard and tried using it with an ati and an nvidia card, both were unable to be used for gaming)

Whats an amptron? Is it a type of motherboard, or type of computer?

(Sorry but I dont know much about the hardware names, that and I feel stupid today... I was on one UT server and I was asked to go to another one with a couple of people to do 2v2, I was shooting my teammate for the longest time and I didnt realise it o_O)

Dude. I think I just understood what you meant. Make sure they know I am gonna put the video card into the computer so they can warn me if it isnt compatable or something!

[BLTicklemonster]

Bingo. If they know, you should hope they are competent enough to set you up with the right stuff.

Hey, your box, is it like your computer? What about just a motherboard/cpu/memory upgrade and chunk a new power supply at 400 watts in for good measure? You may or may not be able to depending on what computer you have at present. Some HP machines have this insanely small power supply unit (psu) in them, and there's no room for a larger one.

If you were to take the side off of your computer, and the power supply is ... hmmm, I'll get some measurements.

But before you even consider it, price it out. Most stores sell a complete system for less than you can upgade for like that.

Oh, and don't listen to me, I get to rambling, lol..