How to convert my friends to an opensource browser?

[0per4t0r]

Basically, my entire school is full of microsoft-loyalist, brainwashed idiots. I tried to suggest for them to use firefox or opera, because I'm tired of the crappy Internet Explorer taking over, but all I get is ridicule! Do you have any suggestions for trying to spread the opensource way?

[Sashin]

Chrome. Tell them to try that.

[Skripka]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

[0per4t0r]

Chrome. Tell them to try that.
Is Chrome opensource? I'm kinda iffy on that, it's fast, but I'm kinda thinking that it's not much else (no offence meant)


Why do you care what browser other people use?
It's just frustrating to see everyone being confined to such a horrible browser, and not being able to experience the internet the way it was supposed to be, with little to no interruptions.

[Rokurosv]

Have you asked your schools computer admins if they can install Firefox or Opera in the machines?
Or do what I did, grab a portable version of Firefox or Chrome and keep it in your USB, and leave them be with their anti-standard browser.

[coldReactive]

Is Chrome opensource? I'm kinda iffy on that.

Chromium.

[Namtabmai]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

BINGO! We have a winner!

If you're tired of people complaining about IE, then fine show them Firefox, Chrome or another cross platform browser.
But if they aren't complaining then what's the problem? Live and let live, they are happy using what ever software they have and so are you. Where's the problem?

[0per4t0r]

Have you asked your schools computer admins if they can install Firefox or Opera in the machines?
Or do what I did, grab a portable version of Firefox or Chrome and keep it in your USB, and leave them be with their anti-standard browser.
I'm working on asking, but the school has just a horrible computer policy, and if you don't log in right, they'll kick you off, basically. At least they dont' block google.
Anyways, I'm more centered on spreading to my classmates. It just upsets me when I see all of them in that horrible browser. Yes, I have Firefox Portable and Opera-USB.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Is Chrome opensource? I'm kinda iffy on that.

Opera is not Open source, if you are promoting open source then just suggest Firefox as Opera is proprietary software.
Though on a more personal note Opera inc is one of the best software companies out there and despite Opera itself being proprietary they offer great support for it.

[0per4t0r]

The school uses windows (unfortunately for me), so Chromium is kinda a no.

[Sashin]

I find chrome to be faster than Opera though. And chrome IS open source.

[0per4t0r]

Opera is not Open source, if you are promoting open source then just suggest Firefox as Opera is proprietary software.
Though on a more personal note Opera inc is one of the best software companies out there and despite Opera itself being proprietary they offer great support for it.
I wasn't sure on opera, but I tried it, and it stuck.

[0per4t0r]

No offense, I don't really care for chrome, but it might be a possibility.

But, the thing I really hate is that some computers just have IE, and nothing else. And all the computers with firefox, except some newer ones, have firefox 2, and they don't even care to upgrade it. Opera for them is supposedly impossible, because they can't get into grades system with it (Which I have done with Opera anyway!)

[Keithhed]

In my experience people only change when they have a problem with something.. so no problem with windows or IE then no change. I got my dad to change over by just installing firefox and telling him that is what he is going to be using from now on lol. I sold him on the speed and security features.

[Namtabmai]

I find chrome to be faster than Opera though. And chrome IS open source.

Chromium is open source, Chrome on the other hand based off Chromium.

[speedwell68]

Maybe they like Internet Explorer, it is their choice after all. I have converted many people to Linux and open source software on Windows, I didn't do it by ramming it down their throats. My mother was easy, she still has XP, but she had never used a computer much before so when she bought it I just set her up with Firefox and Thunderbird, she knew no different and is very happy. My Uncle, who is 75 years old, had XP for years, he bought a new PC with vista on it, It screwed up so I said 'here borrow my laptop whilst I take yours away and sort it for you.' After a couple of days he phoned me and said 'This Ubuntu can I have it on my machine please.' My Dad was a die hard Windows man, he got a Vista machine and a lot of his old software wouldn't work, Nero mainly and his old HP 970 printer, he is a tight **** and didn't want to pay out on a new printer and a new copy of nero. So I dual booted him with Linux Mint 5, now he runs Ubuntu 8.10. Converting people to FOSS or Linux has to be their choice.

[Skripka]

Though on a more personal note Opera inc is one of the best software companies out there and despite Opera itself being proprietary they offer great support for it.

COUGH no 64bit QT4 COUGH.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I wasn't sure on opera, but I tried it, and it stuck.

Trust me Opera is a example of Proprietary software done right, Opera inc listens to the concerns of its users and has a good reputation at fixing bugs and keeping Opera stable.
In terms of community support Opera almost rivals Linux.

[0per4t0r]

Yeah, it's just a very annoying inconvenience for people like me, especially when the USB drivers don't work, and I can't use portable firefox. And, i think in my computer class, the teacher is blocking firefox and opera because it's not compatible with InSight or the new filtering system. (Which I think Is pretty much stupid, as a student who likes his privacy)

[0per4t0r]

Opera almost rivals Linux.
I never knew that. I use opera on Ubuntu, but there's a few features on windows that arent' on the linux version, but nothing major.

[Sashin]

I could have sworn that they both were open source. In any case, chromium IS the source of google chrome as chromium was made by google.

EDIT: here it says it's open source.
http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/why.html

[0per4t0r]

Anyway, I'll try to get firefox and opera on the machines at school, if at least I can't convert my classmates.

[Shpongle]

The school uses windows (unfortunately for me), so Chromium is kinda a no.

you could always just make a portable os of YOUR CHOICE :D on a usb and boot into that!, and keep all your settings or if the comps have a cd drive you could run a live cd!

as for the browser id go with ff but your better off investing your time in you, let them have their microsoft . . who cares its money out of their pocket at the end of the day!, just mention the alternatives if they like it they'll pick it up, like a few ppl in college have started to use ubuntu coz they seen me and one of my lecturers use it,

[0per4t0r]

I could have sworn that they both were open source. In any case, chromium IS the source of google chrome as chromium was made by google.

EDIT: here it says it's open source.
http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/why.html
Nice, didn't know it was open.

[Ticketoride]

Basically, my entire school is full of microsoft-loyalist, brainwashed idiots. I tried to suggest for them to use firefox or opera, because I'm tired of the crappy Internet Explorer taking over, but all I get is ridicule! Do you have any suggestions for trying to spread the opensource way?
What does Microsoft have to do with Firefox or Opera that Linux doesn't?

It a Browser Issue, nothing to do with the OS. By now Firefox is also the preferred Browser under Windows.

IE is simply not safe, too easily nailed with Malware. You shouldn't have any Problems factually pointing out its Shortcomings.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=internet+Explorer+vs+firefox&btnG=Search&meta=

I am afraid still too many Windows Users are simply unaware about Browser Insecurities. But that has been changing.

[Namtabmai]

I could have sworn that they both were open source. In any case, chromium IS the source of google chrome as chromium was made by google.

EDIT: here it says it's open source.
http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/why.html

Yes and no. Check out Chrome on Windows verses Chromium on Linux. Chromimum is good but still has a long way to go, at the moment ( last week at least ) they still hadn't implemented the any of the dialogs really. The options entry from the menu still does nothing. On Windows these features are working fine.

While Chrome is based off Chromium, it has had a much bigger head start and we aren't seeing all the code in that goes into Chrome in Chromium.

[0per4t0r]

you could always just make a portable os of YOUR CHOICE :D on a usb and boot into that!, and keep all your settings or if the comps have a cd drive you could run a live cd!

I'm not sure if the school will let me, my computer teacher isn't that bright, and he'll think I'm hacking or something, so I'm not sure about live CDs (Also, somewhat slow for me) As for Ubuntu on USB: Good Idea, but I need a bigger flash drive, and some of the computers aren't compatible with USB.

[Sashin]

But Chromium represents what will eventually become Google Chrome for linux. It can't be more than a few months until then.

[0per4t0r]

What does Microsoft have to do with Firefox or Opera that Linux doesn't?

It a Browser Issue, nothing to do with the OS. By now Firefox is also the preferred Browser under Windows.

IE is simply not a safe Browser, too easily nailed with Malware. You shouldn't have any Problems factually pointing out its Shortcomings.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=internet+Explorer+vs+firefox&btnG=Search&meta=

I am afraid still too many Windows Users are simply unaware about Browser Insecurities. But that has been changing.
Yes, but most of the school will stick with their crappy MS browser any day over trying anything I say. If they get a virus, they don't care! They won't listen to me, and they know they have problems with IE like everyone else. Crashes, freezes. I haven't had any of those problems with firefox. Even firefox 2 is better than IE! They just won't admit that they have problems, when they ask the teacher for help all the time! It's just stupid!

[-grubby]

COUGH no 64bit QT4 COUGH.

http://www.opera.com/download/?os=linux-x86-64&ver=9.64&local=y

64-bit Opera, for Ubuntu. Right there.

[0per4t0r]

Let me change the title, "How to convert my friends to a better browser"

[Ozor Mox]

Yes, but most of the school will stick with their crappy MS browser any day over trying anything I say. If they get a virus, they don't care! They won't listen to me, and they know they have problems with IE like everyone else. Crashes, freezes. I haven't had any of those problems with firefox. Even firefox 2 is better than IE! They just won't admit that they have problems, when they ask the teacher for help all the time! It's just stupid!

Don't worry yourself so much over it. Mention open source alternatives when appropriate or when someone shows interest in the browser you are using, but don't force the change down their throats.

[Namtabmai]

But Chromium represents what will eventually become Google Chrome for linux. It can't be more than a few months until then.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Google/Chrome or Chromium, just pointing out, don't expect Chromium on Linux to be exactly the same as Chrome on Windows.

Chromium development is running at full speed, just sign up to the nightly packages and you'll see new features being added. At some point Windows features will match Linux features, but a time frame of months may be optimistic.

Personally I'd just be happy when they release a native 64bit version of V8, that would be very cool. There are a few things I'm programming that would really benefit from decent cross CPU/platform interpreter like that. Last time I looked at the V8 code a 64bit version was way off.

[gnomeuser]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

Easy, the more people using browsers with poor security the more pain I will be in. Chrome is the first browser to really add some exciting security features that the average person can go out and use every day.

It also has an influence on the adoption of web standards, the more people who use old versions of IE the more hackarounds web sites will have to put in. Time not spend making things better and safer.

That's just two reasons to care what browser other people use. There are many others but those two I believe to be important as they directly affect me by making the internet suck more than it has to.

[Sashin]

I'm actually using chromium from the PPA. I'm just saying that while its not the same at the moment when it's finished it'll be released as Google Chrome and not chromium and it should be pretty similar to the windows version. Right?

[wsonar]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

The main thing I care about is code being cross browser compliant

I don't understand why there is not a w3c standard for this

[Ticketoride]

Yes, but most of the school will stick with their crappy MS browser any day over trying anything I say. If they get a virus, they don't care! They won't listen to me, and they know they have problems with IE like everyone else. Crashes, freezes. I haven't had any of those problems with firefox. Even firefox 2 is better than IE! They just won't admit that they have problems, when they ask the teacher for help all the time! It's just stupid!
Once upon a Time IE found itself on the same Corporate Netscape Red Carpet too. Institutions tend to lean toward the Status Quo. Your Teacher/Fellow Students may not have much of a Say either. See if you can get in Touch with the IT and have a few Words with him. He may also be operating on Policies set from above.

Its your School's Computer, not yours. If it breaks down, its not your Problem. Further, IE does get the Job done, so I can't figure out what practical Issue you have where you need to convince anyone to change anything.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I never knew that. I use opera on Ubuntu, but there's a few features on windows that arent' on the linux version, but nothing major.

well I know voice isnt on the linux version of opera, but its not completely a lost cause... I heard opera was going to resolve it one day

[Namtabmai]

I'm actually using chromium from the PPA. I'm just saying that while its not the same at the moment when it's finished it'll be released as Google Chrome and not chromium and it should be pretty similar to the windows version. Right?

Maybe, maybe not, I'll wait and see what happens. Chromium is BSD licensed so Google would be well with in the rights of the license to continue using/contributing to the chromium code base but close sourcing additional features to Chrome for Windows only.

[0per4t0r]

Further, IE does get the Job done, so I can't figure out what practical Issue you have where you need to convince anyone to change anything.
it's not standards, compliant, not open source, horrible security, self-indulgent, it basically stole tabbed browsing from firefox (Not to mention a lot of other things) and it's still horrible after copying one of the best browsers, and it is just horrible compared to firefox with its extensions and themes, and opera with widgets, all sorts of toolbars, and some good themes and speed.
Sure, IE gets the job done, but it doesn't get it done right.

[bakedbeans4life]

Basically, my entire school is full of microsoft-loyalist, brainwashed idiots. I tried to suggest for them to use firefox or opera, because I'm tired of the crappy Internet Explorer taking over, but all I get is ridicule! Do you have any suggestions for trying to spread the opensource way?

You are going about this the wrong way.

Microsoft is the one and only true path to enlightenment. Once you accept this your personality adjustment will become automatic. You really are a silly billy are you not? Just step into the booth, and everything will be just OK.

[Namtabmai]

You seem very angry about what software other people use, why? They browse the web in IE, then go on about their lives without a second thought. But yet you carry on agonising about something they don't even consider and in reality doesn't actually effect you.

[0per4t0r]

You are going about this the wrong way.

Microsoft is the one and only true path to enlightenment. Once you accept this your personality adjustment will become automatic. You really are a silly billy are you not? Just step into the booth, and everything will be just OK.
wut?

Anway, on with the thread. :confused: :confused:

[swoll1980]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

If you saw a bunch of people riding around on square wheels, you wouldn't be compelled to convert them to round ones? Wouldn't it frustrate you if they refused to try your round wheel, and just blindly accepted the fact that the square wheel is superior, because it came with the car.

[Namtabmai]

If you saw a bunch of people riding around on square wheels, you wouldn't be compelled to convert them to round ones? Wouldn't it frustrate you if they refused to try your round wheel, and just blindly accepted the fact that the square wheel is superior, because it came with the car.

No. I'd carry on using my abnormal round wheels, happy with that. If people asked me about it, I'd explain why I used round over square wheels. Other than that, I'd get on with my life. Just as everyone with square wheels would.

[swoll1980]

You seem very angry about what software other people use, why? They browse the web in IE, then go on about their lives without a second thought. But yet you carry on agonising about something they don't even consider and in reality doesn't actually effect you.


It affects everyone! It's all part of the Microsoft monopoly. They skew standards in an annoying way, to force people to develop in a way that's incompatible with the rest of the Universe. It's diabolical genius. Research, and you will see how Microsoft's power trip affects the whole planet.

[0per4t0r]

If you saw a bunch of people riding around on square wheels, you wouldn't be compelled to convert them to round ones? Wouldn't it frustrate you if they refused to try your round wheel, and just blindly accepted the fact that the square wheel is superior, because it came with the car.
Okay, I'll stop preaching. :sigh:
I'll just try to get the school to install them on the computers. Petition won't work, though. and that's the only way to go through with it. People at my school are hating on firefox just because I like it. Anyway, thanks for advice.

EDIT: unless, of course, you want me to try to spread it to them?

[swoll1980]

No. I'd carry on using my abnormal round wheels, happy with that. If people asked me about it, I'd explain why I used round over square wheels. Other than that, I'd get on with my life. Just as everyone with square wheels would.

I doubt it. What you just said goes against the human ego.

[Namtabmai]

It affects everyone! It's all part of the Microsoft monopoly. They skew standards in an annoying way, to force people to develop in a way that's incompatible with the rest of the Universe. It's diabolical genius. Research, and you will see how Microsoft's power trip affects the whole planet.

It effects no one. Every adult is able to make their own choice in life, and should be allowed to. What your missing is the majority of people just don't care, and they are perfectly allowed to. By enforcing your belief in open source software on them you are no better than Microsoft. Open source is about freedom, freedom to choose. Choose what you want, when you want to choose it.


I doubt it. What you just said goes against the human ego.

:) I'm a staunch advocate of open source and have been for many years. But that doesn't mean I force my opinion on everyone around me.

I realised many years ago, that the only happiness in life is the one you personally find. I'm happy using open source, and if people want to learn about it I'll tell them. But why should I bother preaching to people who don't want to be converted? I'm happy using open source, they're happy using what ever they're using. My ego is perfectly in check, if you feel the need to prove your supposedly superiority over others by what software you use, perhaps your ego is over strained?

[0per4t0r]

swoll1980 and Namtabmai!
Stop arguing, plz! I don't want my thread closed.

[swoll1980]

It effects no one. Every adult is able to make their own choice in life, and should be allowed to. What your missing is the majority of people just don't care, and they are perfectly allowed to. By enforcing your belief in open source software on them you are no better than Microsoft. Open source is about freedom, freedom to choose. Choose what you want, when you want to choose it.

I'm not trying to enforce anything on anybody. All I did was answer skripka's question "Why would the OP care what browser his classmates use" I answered this with 2 possible scenarios. I don't like Microsoft's monopoly, but I accept that it isn't going anywhere.

[swoll1980]

swoll1980 and Namtabmai!
Stop arguing, plz! I don't want my thread closed.

We are debating. This is what people do on forums. They won't close your thread unless we disrespect each other which isn't going to happen :)

[Namtabmai]

Perhaps it might help you if you thought of this in a different way?

e.g.
"How to convert my friends to Islam?"
or
"How to convert my friends to Buddhism?"

These questions aren't that different from the one you asked, so ask yourself how you'd respond to your friends if they where trying to convert you to one of these religions.

[0per4t0r]

We are debating. This is what people do on forums. They won't close your thread unless we disrespect each other which isn't going to happen :)
:) Oh, okay then.

[Namtabmai]

We are debating. This is what people do on forums. They won't close your thread unless we disrespect each other which isn't going to happen :)

:) Exactly, I don't disrespect Swoll1980's opinion, I just disagree with it. And while I don't try and influence other peoples choices in life I do love a good argument. :D

[0per4t0r]

:) Exactly, I don't disrespect Swoll1980's opinion, I just disagree with it. And while I don't try and influence other peoples choices in life I do love a good argument. :DFor me, I don't usually love the argument unless I win it. :)

[swoll1980]

:) Exactly, I don't disrespect Swoll1980's opinion, I just disagree with it. And while I don't try and influence other peoples choices in life I do love a good argument. :D

I don't personally try to convert people unless they show interest, but I can totally understand why people would feel compelled too. Take silverlight, this is another attempt by Microsoft to force Linux out of the picture.

[xuCGC002]

Ask them if they have any annoyances with their browser. Look up browsers or browsers with add-ons that remove that annoyance. Show them said browser. If they like it, they can install it. Done.

[inxygnuu]

Sounds like they are tired of you preaching it. It has been told in a thread to mention, not preach Linux.

Make them crawl to you in pain from Microsoft! :twisted:

lol.:lolflag: just wait, I understand your concern (I am currently converting people in my school to open-source:)), but like my saying goes, let them crawl to you in pain!:twisted:

Best Regards,
3v4n

[Namtabmai]

For me, I don't usually love the argument unless I win it. :)

Winning an argument is o.k, but it's how you get there that's fun. Try having an argument where you take a stance against something you believe in. See if you can convert an open source person to closed source for example, now that is fun. :D

[smartboyathome]

EDIT: nevermind

[0per4t0r]

Sounds like they are tired of you preaching it. It has been told in a thread to mention, not preach Linux.

Make them crawl to you in pain from Microsoft! :twisted:

lol.:lolflag: just wait, I understand your concern (I am currently converting people in my school to open-source:)), but like my saying goes, let them crawl to you in pain!:twisted:

Best Regards,
3v4n

Ah, good idea!


Winning an argument is o.k, but it's how you get there that's fun. Try having an argument where you take a stance against something you believe in. See if you can convert an open source person to closed source for example, now that is fun. :grin:It is fun getting there. True.

[swoll1980]

See if you can convert an open source person to closed source for example, now that is fun. :D

](*,)

[Bios Element]

Why do you care what browser other people use?

Because the geeks then get to hear them whining and have to fix it. Thus, we care.

[Skripka]

http://www.opera.com/download/?os=linux-x86-64&ver=9.64&local=y

64-bit Opera, for Ubuntu. Right there.

It is NOT QT4. ;)

[Skripka]

Easy, the more people using browsers with poor security the more pain I will be in. Chrome is the first browser to really add some exciting security features that the average person can go out and use every day.

It also has an influence on the adoption of web standards, the more people who use old versions of IE the more hackarounds web sites will have to put in. Time not spend making things better and safer.

That's just two reasons to care what browser other people use. There are many others but those two I believe to be important as they directly affect me by making the internet suck more than it has to.

Unless it is your computer-it isn't your problem or business what browser others use.

MOST folks out there do NOT CARE what browser is technically better-they just want something that works and is there. That is a good deal of the reason IE has a 70% or so marketshare. Lay computer users don't care.

[Sashin]

But doesn't the browser that everyone uses affect how things on the web are designed and thus affect everyone?

[swoll1980]

But doesn't the browser that everyone uses affect how things on the web are designed and thus affect everyone?

Yeah it does. Don't mind skripka he/she is in denial.

[Skripka]

Yeah it does. Don't mind skripka he/she is in denial.

No. Try to get someone to care about something they have no interest in. Good luck-it is as simple as that. Most folks don't care at all-so long as it opens the webpage and doesn't crash, 90% of users are happy...even if we weren't dealing with cliqueish highschool persons.

The other main reason IE is dominant is because of business IT policy.

[Keithhed]

Frankly, i'm quite surprised the thread is still going lol

[wsonar]

Why we care is because we can not use are operating systems that don't run IE to access all the Sites and apps that may be required by our job, school, etc because they are developed the IE way.

so where forced to run an OS that supports the latest IE

"in turn opening up ourselves and our personal data to unnecessary security vulnerabilities"

[swoll1980]

No. Try to get someone to care about something they have no interest in. Good luck-it is as simple as that. Most folks don't care at all-so long as it opens the webpage and doesn't crash, 90% of users are happy...even if we weren't dealing with cliqueish highschool persons.

The other main reason IE is dominant is because of business IT policy.

That I agree with. It wont change, and there's nothing that can be done, by us anyways, to change it. The browser that most people use(because it's bundled with there OS) does affect other people though.

[Sashin]

I don't think it's impossible to change peoples use of a browser. Especially on the basis of speed.

[0per4t0r]

An update: my school is thinking of blocking firefox and opera (or so i've heard) wtf?

[speedwell68]

An update: my school is thinking of blocking firefox and opera (or so i've heard) wtf?



Look get in the real world. Where I work I have to use IE6, I have suggested maybe an upgrade to FF3 and they said no as they have over 4,000 PCs and would have to retrain a lot of staff to use it. So I suggested IE7 and can you guess what they said?

[0per4t0r]

of course they said yes, because they are probably intolerant and won't try ff. Anyway, a lot of computers there already have firefox, and they're even supposedly blocking opera and all portable editions.

[Ticketoride]

it's not standards, compliant, not open source, horrible security, self-indulgent, it basically stole tabbed browsing from firefox (Not to mention a lot of other things)
Firefox was the first to take the Tabbed Browsing Concept from Opera. Everyone else then followed suit.


If you saw a bunch of people riding around on square wheels, you wouldn't be compelled to convert them to round ones? Wouldn't it frustrate you if they refused to try your round wheel, and just blindly accepted the fact that the square wheel is superior, because it came with the car.
... and I was pretty sure L. Ron wasn't gonna come back from the Grave ... j/k ... :grin:


Petition won't work, though. and that's the only way to go through with it. People at my school are hating on firefox just because I like it.
The Tide has totally turned against IE8 ... always takes some Time before all the Dominoes have fallen.


I don't like Microsoft's monopoly, but I accept that it isn't going anywhere.
Market Trends. Should something come along that's widely accepted as better, they'll start to sink. Hardware Manufacturers play along because it's "Good Business". If there would be a viable Competitor, the Tide would change. Too much Inter-dependence among Vendors, which at the same Time also benefits the Consumer with better Quality Products.


See if you can convert an open source person to closed source for example, now that is fun.
Why would you? Some Reason both cannot exist? So you have the Option to pay for one, but not the other. Not a bad Choice actually.