Why do so many people hate kde4?

[=^,^=]

I love it!

[RichardLinx]

I love it!

Me too! I don't think there are all that many people that "hate" KDE4. It got off to a bit of a rocky start because many users were expecting a more stable, more complete 'product' at release. They seem to associate "4.0" with "final" when really it was a complete re-write and still quite unstable. Personally, I think it's miles ahead of GNOME now, and it's competitive in the stability department now to.

GNOME is great too, though.

[Sand & Mercury]

KDE 4 is a fantastic DE that is currently going through some very serious growing pains. It's through the worst of them but it's still got scars.

[=^,^=]

Kwin is still pretty crappy though!

And the opensource ati driver has annoying bugs!

[kk0sse54]

Kwin is still pretty crappy though!

And the opensource ati driver has annoying bugs!

Kwin has been much more stable for me than compiz ever was and the opensource ati driver has nothing to do with the KDE project.

[RichardLinx]

Kwin has been much more stable for me than compiz ever was.

So true.

[swoll1980]

I hate KDE 4. I don't know if I'm in the minority, or not, but it's not for me. It isn't for lack of trying either. Every time a new release comes out I try it, and hate it just as much as the last one. I will try the next one as well, and I'm sure I will hate that one too.

[gletob]

I don't hate KDE4 I hate Kubuntu. Other distros pull of KDE4 MUCH better.

[swoll1980]

Kwin has been much more stable for me than compiz ever was and the opensource ati driver has nothing to do with the KDE project.


So true.

What kind of stability issues did you have with compiz?

[Copernicus1234]

I like a clean desktop. KDE is not it.

Besides, it reminds me of Windows. :(

[=^,^=]

Kwin has been much more stable for me than compiz ever was and the opensource ati driver has nothing to do with the KDE project.

I know it dosent but because ati dont support my x1250 chipset anymore im forced to use it!

Actually im really annoyed by the fact that ati no longer support my igp. its not like a desktop where I can just hot swap it for the latest radeon 4xxx.
Its less important in desktops as people who actually buy cards usually change them quite often, but you cant do that with a laptop!

I love kubuntu jaunty, but I think I will be forced to return to 8.10 or xp.

[Wiebelhaus]

Someone said it's miles ahead of Gnome , That's crazy dude. Gnome is rock solid , more solid in my experiences then Windows desktop. I Like KDE 4 I think it's pretty but not fully functional as of yet. It will get there though and I can't wait but , I'm not going to be too interested if I can't use the desktop as a location , I don't want to store my shortcuts in a folder , bad idea.

[RichardLinx]

What kind of stability issues did you have with compiz?

Freezing, Extremely high CPU usage, Apps would stop functioning (Games in particular), and just down right buggy to be honest. Compiz is great though, but in comparison to KDE which has it's own native compositing - GNOME pales in comparison.

Though I like GNOME too, and I acknowledge that it's getting better all the time. Besides, GNOME does the job fine without compiz anyway so it's not really an issue.

[swoll1980]

Freezing, Extremely high CPU usage, Apps would stop functioning (Games in particular), and just down right buggy to be honest. Compiz is great though, but in comparison to KDE which has it's own native compositing - GNOME pales in comparison.

Though I like GNOME too, and I acknowledge that it's getting better all the time. Besides, GNOME does the job fine without compiz anyway so it's not really an issue.

Really? What kind of graphics card do you have?

[fabiola]

KDE4 is the only real Linux DE that looks and feels professional and other DE users don't like that.

The haters and bashers could be long time Gnome/Xfce fans that have taken a quick look at Kde4 without giving it a chance and then it becomes very easy to cast a negative light on it.

Kwin is lighter and faster than compiz even though compiz is not default i have never felt the need to install it with kwin being default

[LiamWilson]

I know it dosent but because ati dont support my x1250 chipset anymore im forced to use it!

Actually im really annoyed by the fact that ati no longer support my igp. its not like a desktop where I can just hot swap it for the latest radeon 4xxx.
Its less important in desktops as people who actually buy cards usually change them quite often, but you cant do that with a laptop!

I love kubuntu jaunty, but I think I will be forced to return to 8.10 or xp.

Yeah, but the thing is, it's not KDE's fault that the open source drivers are crap. It's the fact that the Developers of the driver cannot use the card to it's full functionality. That's why we use the proprietary driver.

And besides, Jaunty is on RC/Beta stage at the minute, in 4 days it will be fully completed.

[swoll1980]

Kwin is lighter and faster than compiz even though compiz is not default i have never felt the need to install it with kwin being default

Do you have some benchmark, or other data I could see please?

[RiceMonster]

I think it looks great, but I can't get comfortable in it. It looks so great, but every time I try it, it drives me crazy. I can't get comfortable in GNOME either, though.

[=^,^=]

I think it looks great, but I can't get comfortable in it. It looks so great, but every time I try it, it drives me crazy. I can't get comfortable in GNOME either, though.

What desktop do you use?

[xc3RnbFO8P]

i like a clean desktop. Kde is not it.

Besides, it reminds me of windows. :(
+1

[RichardLinx]

Really? What kind of graphics card do you have?

NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600.

Goodnight all.

[swoll1980]

NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600.

Goodnight all.

Goodnight

I wonder if there's some problem specific with certain cards. I have a GeForce 6200, and Compiz has never given me a problem. It's amazing to me, in the Linux world, how much peoples experiences very.

[Wiebelhaus]

Goodnight

I wonder if there's some problem specific with certain cards. I have a GeForce 6200, and Compiz has never given me a problem. It's amazing to me, in the Linux world, how much peoples experiences very.

Yea , but you should also factor in user errors.

[3rdalbum]

The haters and bashers could be long time Gnome/Xfce fans that have taken a quick look at Kde4 without giving it a chance and then it becomes very easy to cast a negative light on it.

I was a long-term Gnome user and I gave KDE 4.1 a try. I like it; I ran it as my desktop for a number of months. I wouldn't have a problem returning to it, just that I like this current GTK/Metacity theme that I'm using :-)

[AlanR8]

Have been using KDE for almost three years now and love KDE 4.2 in Jaunty. I'd agree it's a work in progress and would disagree it's a resource hog. Processor is running at 9% load at present with Firefox, Songbird and a terminal window open.

GLX Gears reports over 5,000 fps with desktop effects disabled and about 2,500 to 3,000 with effects enabled. So I don't use effects very much, they're just eye candy!

[=^,^=]

Have been using KDE for almost three years now and love KDE 4.2 in Jaunty. I'd agree it's a work in progress and would disagree it's a resource hog. Processor is running at 9% load at present with Firefox, Songbird and a terminal window open.

GLX Gears reports over 5,000 fps with desktop effects disabled and about 2,500 to 3,000 with effects enabled. So I don't use effects very much, they're just eye candy!

Thats a very low resource value...

[AlanR8]

I know.....

[=^,^=]

I know.....

Was that sarcasm that I misread?

[Guillaumeb]

Yeh I'm moving to ubuntu cause I'm really enough with Windows. Looking at video of KDE4.2 only makes me think that now the Windows Manager looks like Vista and 7 whereas it used to look XP....

A real shame... plain ugly, even f you can customize.

I just dont see the point to have the same graphical atmosphere

[=^,^=]

Yeh I'm moving to ubuntu cause I'm really enough with Windows. Looking at video of KDE4.2 only makes me think that now the Windows Manager looks like Vista and 7 whereas it used to look XP....

A real shame... plain ugly, even f you can customize.

I just dont see the point to have the same graphical atmosphere

It certainly isnt ugly. If you want ugly just look at the ubuntu human gnome theme.

Distinctive but very ugly!

[Wiebelhaus]

Yeh I'm moving to ubuntu cause I'm really enough with Windows. Looking at video of KDE4.2 only makes me think that now the Windows Manager looks like Vista and 7 whereas it used to look XP....

A real shame... plain ugly, even f you can customize.

I just dont see the point to have the same graphical atmosphere

Yea , it's cool for initial impressions but once I need to get down to work or on a mission to complete a task regardless of the importance I could care less about glitz.

Which is WHY I love Gnome.....Simplicity.

[Greg]

I can't say that I'm a fan of KDE, but it's certainly not ugly.

I don't get where the love of GNOME comes from. I think that XFCE is a better DE.

[kk0sse54]

I love KDE4 but I generally hate having it installed as a default DE for any distro. A clean and simple base install of KDE is just IMO 1000 times better without all the k software bloat that drives me nuts and all the other unneeded components.

[RiceMonster]

What desktop do you use?

I usually use Xfce, but I use Openbox a lot as well (that's what I'm using right now).

[AlanR8]

Was that sarcasm that I misread?

Nope...just a little smug maybe.......

[=^,^=]

I find kubuntu kde superior to gnome for a number of reasons!

Kopete;
The best im client ive ever used. Way ahead of pidgen. It has a far better layout. Webcam support. Easier interface.

K3b:
Just better than brasero. I like brasero but K3b can do more.

Amamrok 2;
The best music player ive used.

Nero Linux;
Try it on gnome. It will open up half way off the desktop. It dosent in kde.

Speed;
Things open up much faster for me in kde than gnome.
And that includes firefox.

.............but konqerour is still horrible for a lot of things!

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

I find kubuntu kde superior to gnome for a number of reasons!

Kopete;
The best im client ive ever used. Way ahead of pidgen. It has a far better layout. Webcam support. Easier interface.

K3b:
Just better than brasero. I like brasero but K3b can do more.

Amamrok 2;
The best music player ive used.

Nero Linux;
Try it on a gnome desktop. It will open up half off the page. It dosent in kde.

Speed;
Things open up much faster for me in kde than gnome.
And that includes firefox.

.............but konqerour is still horrible for a lot of things!

Konqueror is a fantastic file manager, and the less you say about dolphin, the better.

kde works for some, and gnome satisfies some, so there is no point in going for a hate kde or hate gnome mindset. Besides, there are other wm's that are so easy on resources compared to both kde and gnome, like all *box environments, tiling window managers, xfce, e17, lxde to name a few.

[=^,^=]

I usually use Xfce, but I use Openbox a lot as well (that's what I'm using right now).

I like openbox, but I hate the way you get the really grey ugly gnome theme for firefox and other gtk based applications...

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

I like openbox, but i hate the way you get the really grey ugly gnome theme for firefox and other gtk based applications...

you mean the cde look? you are wrong. when you have a .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home directory with the theme, icon and font details in place, gtk apps will be themed no matter what box environment you use.

[Greg]

I like openbox, but I hate the way you get the really grey ugly gnome theme for firefox and other gtk based applications...

I'm pretty sure you can change that with a .gtkrc-2.0 file.

[=^,^=]

you mean the cde look? you are wrong. when you have a .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home directory with the theme, icon and font details in place, gtk apps will be themed no matter what box environment you use.

It didnt for me when I installed ubuntu 8.10, and then openbox, every gtk based app has this really ugly grey theme that you get in gnome when you use something like synaptic, and dont gksudo nautilus a theme into /usr/share/themes!

it was also the same when I installed kde4 from the repos.

[=^,^=]

you mean the cde look? you are wrong. when you have a .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home directory with the theme, icon and font details in place, gtk apps will be themed no matter what box environment you use.

Ok I totally misread that, so please disregard me last post.

I didnt know about this!

[cb951303]

There are few reasons why people hate KDE 4

1- Former KDE 3 users hate to see their favorite DE die
2- KDE 4 was unstable and among many things, people are very intolerant against bugs.
3- KDE 4 being buggy created a new reason for GNOME fanboys to bash it.

Both KDE and GNOME users are angry so it's no surprise that KDE 4 is hated so much.

Personally I never liked KDE but I promised myself that I would switch to KDE 4 once 4.2 is released. It didn't go well but I'll definitely try it again in the future.

[fabiola]

I like a clean desktop.

Besides, it reminds me of Windows.


I have seen more Gnome desktops look like windows than Kde ones, just scroll through the screenshots thread ;)

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

It didnt for me when I installed ubuntu 8.10, and then openbox, every gtk based app has this really ugly grey theme that you get in gnome when you use something like synaptic, and dont gksudo nautilus a theme into /usr/share/themes!

it was also the same when I installed kde4 from the repos.


well, its an isolated case, so if you had looked into it, i am pretty sure that you might have found out the reason, may be engine not installed, or may be something else wrong. it is not supposed to happen.

[RiceMonster]

I like openbox, but I hate the way you get the really grey ugly gnome theme for firefox and other gtk based applications...

You can easily set a gtk theme. There's a bunch of apps to do it like lxappearance or gtk-chtheme. Or, you can just edit ~/.gtkrc-2.0.

Here's my openbox desktop with a gtk theme: (clicky)
http://f.imagehost.org/t/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot.jpg (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot)

[=^,^=]

You can easily set a gtk theme. There's a bunch of apps to do it like lxappearance or gtk-chtheme. Or, you can just edit ~/.gtkrc-2.0.

Here's my openbox desktop with a gtk theme: (clicky)
http://f.imagehost.org/t/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot.jpg (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot)

Thats a really nice desktop! ^,^

[RiceMonster]

Thats a really nice desktop! ^,^

Thanks :)

[SomeGuyDude]

I like openbox, but I hate the way you get the really grey ugly gnome theme for firefox and other gtk based applications...

LXAppearance. It's awesome. Use and enjoy.

[WatchingThePain]

I hate KDE 4. I don't know if I'm in the minority, or not, but it's not for me. It isn't for lack of trying either. Every time a new release comes out I try it, and hate it just as much as the last one. I will try the next one as well, and I'm sure I will hate that one too.

I am on your side.

I reckon from an end users point of view that it has great potential.
However I don't think I am seeing the realization of the promise as yet.
I am seeing unstable behaviour, but I have faith in the KDE.

[haemulon]

KDE (4.1.2) looks great but when I actually try to do something with it, often it's not very intuitive and I seem to end up doing too much clicking around and wasting time.

The panels are difficult to work with.

I want to like KDE, but just looking good is not enough, I often become frustrated using it.

[SpriteSODA]

It's awesome but the window decorations are HORRIBLE

[SomeGuyDude]

I've used every KDE incarnation since whatever came with Kubuntu Feisty, and it NEVER works out right.

I dig around like crazy trying to make it look how I want, only eventually I get frustrated and just leave it as standard Oxygen. I don't know why the thing comes with Konqueror as a browser, that thing is horrible. It eats up resources like it's goin' out of style, the "kitchen sink" approach drives me crazy, etc.

And I really do keep trying. I installed 4.2 a few weeks ago and said nnnnnnupe after a few hours.

[=^,^=]

It's awesome but the window decorations are HORRIBLE

Oxygen is the best opensource window decoration ive seen!

[Icehuck]

KDE (4.1.2) looks great but when I actually try to do something with it, often it's not very intuitive and I seem to end up doing too much clicking around and wasting time.

The panels are difficult to work with.

I want to like KDE, but just looking good is not enough, I often become frustrated using it.

This sounds exactly like the same problems people have coming from Windows to Linux. You're not used to it and therefore you don't want to learn something new.

[Greg]

I've used every KDE incarnation since whatever came with Kubuntu Feisty, and it NEVER works out right.

I dig around like crazy trying to make it look how I want, only eventually I get frustrated and just leave it as standard Oxygen. I don't know why the thing comes with Konqueror as a browser, that thing is horrible. It eats up resources like it's goin' out of style, the "kitchen sink" approach drives me crazy, etc.

And I really do keep trying. I installed 4.2 a few weeks ago and said nnnnnnupe after a few hours.

GNOME's browser is Epiphany...

[Mehall]

I love KDE. Normally am a KDE user, though I'm using Crunchbang Linux just now, as it's great, so that's Openbox like some other users.

As said, I like KDE. I dislike Kubuntu. Kubuntu is honestly the worst implementation of any KDE I've seen.

I'd use Mandriva, KDEmod + arch, or even openSUSE for KDE. (not tried Fedora's KDE)

pic of desktop:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/MehallD/9a4df5cf-1.png (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/MehallD/9a4df5cf.png)

(click-thru)

[=^,^=]

I love KDE. Normally am a KDE user, though I'm using Crunchbang Linux just now, as it's great, so that's Openbox like some other users.

As said, I like KDE. I dislike Kubuntu. Kubuntu is honestly the worst implementation of any KDE I've seen.

I'd use Mandriva, KDEmod + arch, or even openSUSE for KDE. (not tried Fedora's KDE)

pic of desktop:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/MehallD/9a4df5cf-1.png (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/MehallD/9a4df5cf.png)

(click-thru)

The gnome theme folder icon is ugly!

[chucky chuckaluck]

The gnome theme folder icon is ugly!

easily changed. btw, you can install a theme engine that allows gtk apps to follow qt theming, which you can control with qtconfig. additionally, you can fairly easily modify openbox themes to match qt, or gtk theming. lxappearance is a great app for making all the theme, icon and font choices for you. if you use it with gksudo (is it?), you can make root look good, too.


i've had a few tries at kde4. hated it the first time, mostly because it seemed to have given up a very functional (if complicated) environment for a fluffy one. it's still kind of fluffy with 4.2, but i guess i'm in the mood for fluffy these days. using dolphin and either firefox or opera, has made it more pleasant than using konqueror, for me. also using amarok and vlc instead of kdemultimedia is a better choice for me, as well. i also like the management of effects in kde better than in compiz, speaking of fluffy.

[=^,^=]

easily changed. btw, you can install a theme engine that allows gtk apps to follow qt theming, which you can control with qtconfig. additionally, you can fairly easily modify openbox themes to match qt, or gtk theming. lxappearance is a great app for making all the theme, icon and font choices for you. if you use it with gksudo (is it?), you can make root look good, too.


i've had a few tries at kde4. hated it the first time, mostly because it seemed to have given up a very functional (if complicated) environment for a fluffy one. it's still kind of fluffy with 4.2, but i guess i'm in the mood for fluffy these days. using dolphin and either firefox or opera, has made it more pleasant than using konqueror, for me. also using amarok and vlc instead of kdemultimedia is a better choice for me, as well. i also like the management of effects in kde better than in compiz, speaking of fluffy.

Kubuntu jaunty already seems to do that.

Whose the overmadeup chick in your avatar?

[billgoldberg]

I love it!

Hate is a big word.

I don't advise people to use it because it isn't stable enough yet for daily usage.

Also, KDE4 is slower than Gnome for me.

[Mehall]

The gnome theme folder icon is ugly!

Yeah, Never really changed it, because I've not found any that I just don't like by looking at them at first. So they stay for now :P

[Wiebelhaus]

As said, I like KDE. I dislike Kubuntu. Kubuntu is honestly the worst implementation of any KDE I've seen.



I'm a hardcore devotee of Ubuntu. I'm no longer interested in using anything other than Debian derived OS's but I've had bad luck with Kubuntu and the best KDE experience ever was with PCLOS.

[billgoldberg]

GNOME's browser is Epiphany...

And that's relevant how?

[RiceMonster]

if you use it with gksudo (is it?), you can make root look good, too.

To do that, I just do:

sudo ln -s ~/.themes/ /root/.themes/
sudo ln -s ~/.icons/ /root/.icons/

Then root will follow your themes as you change them.

[Greg]

And that's relevant how?

SomeGuyDude was complaining about KDE's default browser being Konquerer. It's not like GNOME's is so sharp, either...

[=^,^=]

SomeGuyDude was complaining about KDE's default browser being Konquerer. It's not like GNOME's is so sharp, either...

Epiphany is 100x better than konqueror...

[SpriteSODA]

Oxygen is the best opensource window decoration ive seen!

Then you must be blind :P Compared to GTK+ themes such as New Wave, Shiki Colors and so on it looks neanderthal, and it really doesn't match the stunning themes of Plasma.

[CraigPaleo]

SomeGuyDude was complaining about KDE's default browser being Konquerer. It's not like GNOME's is so sharp, either...

He was talking about Kubuntu's default browser, which is Konqueror. Ubuntu's is Firefox. Even so, Epiphany is only intended as a browser and is much more functional than Konqueror as a web browser.

[Newuser1111]

I love it!I also like KDE4.
But I use GNOME because the last time I've used KDE it had too many problems and I don't know if its fixed yet.

[chucky chuckaluck]

To do that, I just do:

sudo ln -s ~/.themes/ /root/.themes/
sudo ln -s ~/.icons/ /root/.icons/

Then root will follow your themes as you change them.

if you want them to be the same, that is. i just don't want root to be ugly. i like to have different themes for root and user just as an additional guarantee that i won't get confused.

[billgoldberg]

SomeGuyDude was complaining about KDE's default browser being Konquerer. It's not like GNOME's is so sharp, either...

Epiphany is a great browser, unlike Konqueror.

[swoll1980]

Nero Linux;
Try it on gnome. It will open up half way off the desktop. It dosent in kde.



I have nero it works fine with gnome.

[JoshuaRL]

I love KDE4. I think that by 4.3 it will easily surpass Windows 7 and by 4.5 it will be the hands down best DE as far as being pretty and usable. Remember 3.5? It looked a little dated but you could change anything. KDE4 is going that way with usability, and it looks like something to stand against OSX and anything Microsoft makes.

And as far as looking like Windows, I submit my two screenshots. The first is what it looks like normally, with the panels autohid. And the other is what they look like when slid out. Oxyglass More FTW!

[=^,^=]

I have nero it works fine with gnome.

Do you only use 1 gnomebar? because then it will work ok. But if you use 2, like a standard gnome desktop, it will open off page!

Although saying that, it does seem to work with some gtk themes with 2 panels, but for 99% of them it just dosent!

[haemulon]

ok I just gave up on KDE again for awhile.

I think it doesn't let you create a launcher on the desktop.

I tried putting it on the panel, suddenly it crashed because my top panel disappeared and the bottom one stayed there but all the widgets are gone.

So now I'm supposed to start over...

It's always like this with KDE I end up all frustrated, until the next time I have some time to kill with it.

[Skripka]

Epiphany is a great browser, unlike Konqueror.

If I understand correctly, Konqueror is going to default to using Webkit in KDE4.3, which makes it fly--currently the Webkit module for Konqueror is unstable, any page with browser redirects crashes it right now.

Konqueror with Webkit does the Google V8 benchmark at 900+ (just as fast as Arora)...versus only 170-200 with KHTML. It also has no problems with Flash embeds with Webkit.

[Ticketoride]

Kunbuntu's KDE is nice Eyecandy, but I don't like the Way it feels.
Too many Panels and Functions magically disappeared.

I feel way more at Home with Gnome.

[Tomosaur]

KDE4 - I don't hate it, but it doesn't make it easy for me to like it. Their 're-imagining' of the desktop has introduced a bunch of crap I don't care about and hidden the stuff I want to use. Maybe if I disliked the generic metaphor everybody else uses, I'd use KDE, but it seems to me like it's a waste of time getting to grips with KDE4s way of doing things when I know from experience that the way I do things now is fine and dandy.

That, and it's buggy as hell at the moment.

[sim-value]

Well ... its easy ...

KDE is written in Qt

Qt was bought by nokia

Now when loking to Nokia Phones Nokia makes the most crappy most crappy phones which work for Telephoning (omg whats the correct verb) (Motorola dont even manage that) With an unintuitive almost not Customizible Menu which didnt change since they make Color-screen phones.

You can draw your conclusion ... (though it would be cool if Nokia menus would be anywhere to the usability of KDE)

/me

[SpriteSODA]

KDE4 - I don't hate it, but it doesn't make it easy for me to like it. Their 're-imagining' of the desktop has introduced a bunch of crap I don't care about and hidden the stuff I want to use. Maybe if I disliked the generic metaphor everybody else uses, I'd use KDE, but it seems to me like it's a waste of time getting to grips with KDE4s way of doing things when I know from experience that the way I do things now is fine and dandy.

That, and it's buggy as hell at the moment.

I totally disagree, their new desktop is eons ahead of gnome. In my Ubuntu, there's simply no real use for the desktop, its just a background picture. FolderView and the Plasmoids make some decent use of the desktop.

[Mehall]

I can say +1 to that. I liked the plasmoids in KDE4.

I never have anything on any Gnome desktop, and I just have conky running with Openbox

[jimmyhacker]

because it really lacks usability!it crashes and who want desktop icons looking like screenlets?it also lacks GTK+ support.kde.desktop file by KDM doesn`t launch gnome-settings-daemon for making GTK+ applications to look properly.it also makes you to use sudo!Vista-ish look doesn`t make KDE 4 a good desktop environment.

[fabiola]

because it really lacks usability!it crashes

:D That may of been the case in 4.0 but things move on in the Linux world, i have Kde4 (not kubuntu) installed for many weeks now and not one single crash so far.

How someone can "hate" kde4 is beyond me (to be honest with you it says more about that person than it does kde4) and unfortunately i generally only see it here on the these forums

[tbroderick]

"Haters" are almost always more vocal. KDE4 is great, GNOME is great too. I happen to prefer KDE4 (Mandriva 2009.1 RC2) over GNOME.

[Wild_Duck66]

I always used KDE once I`d disabled all the tooltips. But I prefer to go straight to what I want in a menu not choose from half a dozen then wait for some other items to appear. I used to hate Gnome but since KDE 4 I put up with it.

[wolfen69]

How someone can "hate" kde4 is beyond me (to be honest with you it says more about that person than it does kde4) and unfortunately i generally only see it here on the these forums

where else are you going to see this? at the grocery store? :rolleyes:

[MickS]

I've still got XP, Gnome and KDE3.5 on my box, even boot into them now and again but compared to KDE4.2 they all seem a bit old and tired to me. KDE4 is not perfect by any means but I love it.

Mick

[Skripka]

where else are you going to see this? at the grocery store? :rolleyes:

Yes as a matter of fact. Coke versus Pepsi etc...The same as any old war of religions.

[WatchingThePain]

Konqueror has a rep of being a bit heavy.
Also to think Kwin is far better than compiz upsets me a little.
Kwin have basically copied compiz (ya boo).
I just want to see a solid version of KDE4.

[qazwsx]

Currently using KDE 4 with Openbox. There is something broken in kwin or xorg at the moment on my never stable distro (Xorg eats up +50 % CPU with kwin). Other than that KDE 4.2 is just great.

I am still waiting for k3b and kaffeine (devs, please hurry ;))

[chucky chuckaluck]

Yes as a matter of fact. Coke versus Pepsi etc...The same as any old war of religions.

yankees (yuk!) vs. red sox, canes vs. sabres (*spits*), NE patriots (*smirks smugly*) vs. the rest of the world...

[SomeGuyDude]

I totally disagree, their new desktop is eons ahead of gnome. In my Ubuntu, there's simply no real use for the desktop, its just a background picture. FolderView and the Plasmoids make some decent use of the desktop.

Can someone tell me what differentiates plasmoids from screenlets and why one is the reason KDE is a godsend?

Anyway, for someone who doesn't ever have their wallpaper visible (I maximize firefox and that's where it stays), all the adorable screen gadgets in the world don't do me much good.

[chucky chuckaluck]

Anyway, for someone who doesn't ever have their wallpaper visible (I maximize firefox and that's where it stays), all the adorable screen gadgets in the world don't do me much good.

well, go ahead and just sit in the dark, then!

[cb951303]

Can someone tell me what differentiates plasmoids from screenlets and why one is the reason KDE is a godsend?


I wouldn't say it's a godsend but plasma (not plasmoids) is an important step for the future of linux desktop. It gives a common ground to developers for writing panels, notification aware applications, applets, plasmoids etc.

I truly believe that KDE team made the right decision by starting from scratch. Frameworks like phonon, solid, plasma and the new QT will eventually lead to a much more easier to maintain desktop.

I also don't believe that KDE 4 hate is permanent. Once it's stable enough and feature-full, I'm sure it will have its fanboys back.

[wvmac]

I like it. With the right nvidia driver my low end 8300 makes the kde desktop feel really fast. I'm using kubuntu jaunty x64 and there are a few hangs with plasma when messing with external drives sometimes, but other than that is has been stable. I recently ran windows 7 7057, on the same machine, and the kde4 desktop feels slightly faster. I used gnome mostly out of dislike of kde3. I liked stuff about kde3 but it felt unstable; kde 4.2.2 is approaching that gnome stability but with a much more interesting/fun/cool/modern feeling desktop. Sure it acts different than gnome but that is a good thing. The polish is arriving to kde4 and its looks are a nice combination of vista (which I think looks nice) and OS X (also think it looks nice). But vista and OS X don't have kwin. Their window managers are confining once you are used to linux window managers.

Now kde seems more complicated in its UI, so I don't have my parents run it. I think gnome, for now, suits them better.

[The Keeper]

I disliked KDE3 and still dislike KDE4.

I like how KDE4 looks, it does look really good. But actually using it is horrid. It is not intuitive at all.

As far as usability goes, Gnome is better. XFCE is better than Gnome though and I really like it. The less clicking, browsing, looking or just general mucking around the user needs to do, the better. In that XFCE shines.

Combine KDE4's looks and XFCE's usability and we have a winner.


I also tried Kubuntu 9.04 RC last weekend. I don't know if it is a common problem with KDE4 or just Kubuntu. But I couldn't get half of the restricted codecs to work either in Konqueror or Firefox compared to (X)Ubuntu. And yes, I did install kubuntu-restricted-codecs and w32codecs. I gave up on Kubuntu after that and stick with Ubuntu and Xubuntu instead.

Though it seems that Canonical focuses specifically on Gnome, as new applications that appear in each release may not be available in Xubuntu, even though both are GTK+ based. Disappointing really.

End of rant. :)

[SunnyRabbiera]

KDE4 is sort of mixed for me, I like it and hate it at the same time.
For starters I like the concepts in it, each object a widget I can deal with that.
But Plasma still feels unstable, and KDE4 itself seems to need some major patches.
This is universal on all distros, KDE4 seems the same on Kubuntu, Opensuse, Mandriva and other KDE4 distros...

[TWO]

I'm personally looking forward to the KDE 3.5 remix for Jaunty this April!

I'm not ready for jumping to KDE 4 so I'm happy to see that they are still keeping KDE 3 and possibly onto the release later this year! :D

Please see the following:
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Jaunty

[mrowth]

I hated it at first because the versions packaged with (K)ubuntu were unstable and seemed to be missing much of what had made KDE great to me.

Now -- 4.2 -- I'm using it and it's alright.

I'll even use Dolphin now that I discovered what the "view full path in location bar" option is for (= "don't cut off the way back up the breadcrumb trail every time you accidentally hit a directory that's also a 'Place'"). (Miss the "Link" colum in the detailed views though; thus gone from Konq as well. Why?)

I like that I can select multiple files with just the mouse without using the shift key. Very nice!

And it does look better than KDE 3. Look & feel configuration is more centralized, too. And I can finally have bright-on-dark colour schemes without much extra tweaking. Still can't apply that to GTK apps though, makes them look screwed up.

Also, KDE 4 desktop effects tend to make other toolkits' menus (among other things) behave erratically. Parts are transparent, double shadows, etc.; how do I style KDE 3 apps now?

Another look and feel gripe: The way the big taskbar tooltips/previews slide around. It just draws my attention back to where I'm not, as if the old task were somehow "moving" toward the new one. Similarly, the info panel in Dolphin with its morphing icons makes it look as if the old file "became" the new file. It's not a big deal, just a bit confusing.

The desktop might be the greatest nuisance. I've yet to figure out how to restore my preferred use of it as a giant "just click anywhere" button for the apps menu (middle click) and window list (right click).

And then there's the Folder View widget. It's slow, but that's not so important in this case. The font looks aliased, though, and italic (link) filenames are cut off as if they weren't slanted to the right, and, in general, filenames could be wider so they won't line-break so much. Had that problem in KDE 3 too I think.

I like the new Kickoff menu in principle, but, IMHO, it could really use "proper" submenus. The way it's now is disorienting. And then there's the way it lists applications by description, not name. Is there a way to change that? Also it disappears as soon as it loses focus; if it's small enough, that can happen even before you've reached it at all (since there's an empty strip between the "K" button and the actual menu). I suppose it was designed with only "click to focus" in mind. I do use it... because it does provide a lot of functionality in one place. The classic menu has been stripped down too much so it's no full substitute.

Device Notifier says "Open with Dolphin" even if it opens with Konqueror. Also need more actions for inserted media. There's more to life than Dragon Player. Must be configurable somewhere.

KRunner is pretty cool. But should it vaccillate between 2%-11% CPU and way over 20 MB RAM or thereabouts even when it's not, apparently, doing anything? Or... what is it doing?

So it's a mixed bag but I'm no longer defiantly clinging to KDE 3, and looking forward to future KDE 4 versions.

[megamania]

KDE4 is the only real Linux DE that looks and feels professional and other DE users don't like that.

The haters and bashers could be long time Gnome/Xfce fans that have taken a quick look at Kde4 without giving it a chance and then it becomes very easy to cast a negative light on it.
My first linux experience was with KDE. When I tried Gnome, I liked it better, and switched to it. I had KDE on my system, but never used it.

When KDE 4.0 came out, I installed it. It was beautiful and terrible at the same time. I never used it again.

I recently (one month ago) installed the latest KDE. It's still beautiful, but I find it slow, bloated and complicated. Of course, there are things I really don't like of Gnome (the file overwrite dialog? Is adding the file dates too difficult?), but in the end I feel more at home with Gnome than with KDE, XFCE, Windows and Mac.

Life is not love OR hate. It's also in-betweens and personal tastes.

[element_G]

Someone said it's miles ahead of Gnome , That's crazy dude. Gnome is rock solid , more solid in my experiences then Windows desktop. I Like KDE 4 I think it's pretty but not fully functional as of yet. It will get there though and I can't wait but , I'm not going to be too interested if I can't use the desktop as a location , I don't want to store my shortcuts in a folder , bad idea.

Desktop icons can be done in two ways: use the desktop to display the files in home/user/Desktop OR with the folder view plasmoid. This has been available for a while now (iirc folder view plasmoid was in 4.1.x)

Been using kubuntu since 6.06:popcorn: my .02:
Always like KDE3.5, I've tried Gnome but never liked how there isn't a GUI for configuring the widget style (i mean actually configing it not just changing the GTK) or changing the color scheme. And thanks to qtcurve and gtk-qt-engine, all my apps look consistent in KDE, the same can't be said for gnome. I do agree with KDE4 going through a lot of growing pains and that they are through the worst.

As far as looks go if KDE4's defaults look like 'windows' I say this: you can make Gnome, KDE, xfce look like whatever you want it's not about the default look! it's about what looks you can achieve and whether or not you are comfortable and happy with them. Take some time to play around with your DE's people!

That being said it would be nice if kubuntu could recieve the same level of art attention that ubuntu seems to recieve

[mrowth]

...

And then there's the Folder View widget. It's slow, but that's not so important in this case. The font looks aliased, though, and italic (link) filenames are cut off as if they weren't slanted to the right, ...

Huh! This just stopped being the case. (I'm not sure why.)

[SomeGuyDude]

KDE4 is the only real Linux DE that looks and feels professional and other DE users don't like that.

:lolflag:


Kwin is lighter and faster than compiz even though compiz is not default i have never felt the need to install it with kwin being default

:lolflag: :lolflag:

I guarantee you, right now, that my Compiz setup is FAR lighter than your KDE4 setup, and I even have a handicap because my video card is integrated (meaning there's 256MB of RAM getting eaten up from the get-go).

[HavocXphere]

That being said it would be nice if kubuntu could recieve the same level of art attention that ubuntu seems to recieve
+1
I reckon that is going to change though.

I'm surprised this isn't in recurring discussions yet.

[wsonar]

I got to admit that KDE has some nice apps and features

but I'm more a gnome guy tho e17 has potential

[piousp]

GNOME is way overrated in this forums.:rolleyes:
I have both ubuntu-gnome and kubuntu-kde at home, and i still prefer kde4.

[itix]

It's better than KDE3, I'll give you that, but it still sucks. KDE is not the kind of desktop that I want.

[SomeGuyDude]

GNOME is way overrated in this forums.

Yeah. You can get all the functionality of GNOME but with far less bloat if you setup some of the other WMs right.

[chucky chuckaluck]

"looks professional"? what does that mean, exactly? it says "billing" somewhere on the desktop? most computers i've seen in businesses look horrible.

[calrogman]

It's too big, too much going on and the themes are awful.

GNOME FTW

[miggols99]

You can easily set a gtk theme. There's a bunch of apps to do it like lxappearance or gtk-chtheme. Or, you can just edit ~/.gtkrc-2.0.

Here's my openbox desktop with a gtk theme: (clicky)
http://f.imagehost.org/t/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot.jpg (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0123/2009-04-17-185015_1280x800_scrot)
That's pretty nice! What panel are you using?

[Skripka]

It's too big, too much going on and the themes are awful.

GNOME FTW

What do people tell those who hate the Ubuntu-Poo color theme? Download another. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gnome packages actually require more downloading than KDE by a small margin, BTW.

[marco123]

I don't think anybody actually hates a Desktop Environment, they just dislike it/prefer a different one.

It's all about personal preference and choice with Linux. I personally just prefer Gnome and the various Gnome features like drag and drop, simplicity and stability.

KDE isn't that bad, it's just that I'm used to Gnome, so anything else feels foreign to me; but just because I can't be bothered to learn a different way of doing things doesn't mean I should just label it rubbish.

Cheers, Marco.

[calvinps]

I like a clean desktop. KDE is not it.

Besides, it reminds me of Windows. :(

Agreed :|

[RiceMonster]

Just want to say It bugs me when a GNOME user calls KDE bloated or vice versa. They're both big, heavy desktop environments compared to everything else out there (which is fine if you like having all the features they have), so it sounds silly accusing the other of being "bloated" when there isn't really any less of what you have in your own environment.


That's pretty nice! What panel are you using?

Thanks. I'm just using the usual pypanel :)

[stimpack]

Actually can't understand this myself. KDE is in a good place right now, I have never like any DE on any computer more than I like KDE atm.

Obviously people who like feature-stripped simplicity would be better off with Gnome or OSX, but for options-out-of-your-*** nothing beats KDE whilst still being easy to use. Windows is not even in the running, in either category.

But the hate, I don't understand, though the registered date of most of the haters is quite recent, which may or may not mean anything.

[joey-elijah]

It's really sad, but i tried KDE and i got really confused just trying to change the appearance of a window! it gave me far too many options that were irrelevant and i really do hate to say it, but most KDE users i've asked help from have been either rude, uncourteous or egotistical in assuming that anyone having a problem with their 'beloved' DE must be utter morons because "Linus says GNOME is for stupid people".

I like having features/options/choice but not at the expensive of intuitiveness which is why, imo, Gnome is by far the better DE. When you shake all the fancy pants widgets and plasmoids and icons off - KDE as a framework is far too demanding for what it gives.

It does, however, have some great UI features and i'm glad it exists - if only to spur on Gnome designers.

[jeremyjjbrown]

People hate it because kde 4 and 4.1 didn't work for s&*t.

I rejected KDE 4.2 because of the annoying "move here" context menu and minimal right click context menu. Gnome moves files without nagging me and has great context menu options which I use every day. I tried to find a way to customize the KDE context menu for two days, got fed up and then found a solution...

sudo apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop

Bing no more problems with KDE.

[itix]

I don't think anybody actually hates a Desktop Environment, they just dislike it/prefer a different one.

It's all about personal preference and choice with Linux. I personally just prefer Gnome and the various Gnome features like drag and drop, simplicity and stability.

KDE isn't that bad, it's just that I'm used to Gnome, so anything else feels foreign to me; but just because I can't be bothered to learn a different way of doing things doesn't mean I should just label it rubbish.

Cheers, Marco.

Well... yeah. I'd still prefer KDE to windows... hell, I'd prefer *box-DE to windows, but XFCE and gnome is better than KDE4 which is waaay better than KDE3. Simply put; Gnome > XFCE > KDE4 >>> KDE3 >>>>(x30)>>> Windows.

What I really hated about KDE4 was that the damn dolphin file manager had a single klick open-stuff interface and a tiny little plus if you wanted to select it. It was annoying as hell!
I'm sure there's a way to change that, but hell, that together with the constant flicking by KWM and the fact that I had an enormous problem liking the way the menu was built and the console made the KDE4 journey no longer than 3 days before I installed Fedora (which was later replaced by Ubuntu again).

[chucky chuckaluck]

I rejected KDE 4.2 because of the annoying "move here" context menu and minimal right click context menu.

i think i recall general zod saying somewhere that right-click menu editing is coming in 4.3.

[SomeGuyDude]

Well... yeah. I'd still prefer KDE to windows... hell, I'd prefer *box-DE to windows

Hey, OpenBox is a friggin' EXCELLENT window manager.

[matmatmat]

Besides, it reminds me of Windows.

KDE seems very slow!

[spoons]

I don't think everyone, or even most people hate KDE. But you see far less "KDE is great!" posts because those people are actually USING KDE rather than complaining it doesn't work. It's quite amazing how people don't like it because it's different, and then bash Windows users for not liking Linux because it's different. Hypocrisy much?

KDE is getting better all the time. The newer versions are quite stable and have much more functionality than the original 4.0 release. I suggest everyone before hating on KDE try the latest version first, 4.2.x or whatever they're upto now, before moaning. I think there are far more important things in the open source world than themes, such as properly working video/sound drivers.

/2 pence

[ivaarsen]

I simply don't like the direction that was taken with KDE 4. But I like KDE 3 - I keep Kubuntu 8.04 installed on a machine for that reason.

[NightwishFan]

KDE 4.1 was poorly implemented on pretty much every major distro. The only problem I had with using it was that I would rather a feature not be implemented at all rather than have it exist and not work correctly. An example is Khotkeys and the KDM configuration really did not work right in 4.1.

4.2 is incredible, even on Kubuntu (Which some people do not like, personally I do). The GTK+ Nvidia-Settings actually uses QT and my KDE color scheme. Now GNOME applications look fairly native.

Even on the live CD, it has many plasma widgets.

[GeneralZod]

i think i recall general zod saying somewhere that right-click menu editing is coming in 4.3.

I think it ended up missing feature-freeze, alas.

[chucky chuckaluck]

I think it ended up missing feature-freeze, alas.

darn. i guess we'll have to wait for 5beta. *sighs*

[nandemonai]

I like a clean desktop. KDE is not it.

Besides, it reminds me of Windows. :(

My thoughts exactly. Each to their own though.

[shadowlands]

what is kde4?

[CharmyBee]

i mainly hate kde4 because it's a 'required' upgrade from the tried and true kde 3.5x i'm already familiar with - and the upgrade gave me huge fonts, icons, menus, gadgets i've never used, missing functionality, all in the name for eye candy, probably in an attempt to try to beat "Windows 7" to the punch.

I then went GNOME and never looked back. At least that's remotely closer to KDE3 than 4 is. If I had given the choice, i'd still be using KDE3.

[tbroderick]

I rejected KDE 4.2 because of the annoying "move here" context menu

So hit the shift key when moving or ctrl when copying and you won't get the annoying context menu.

[fabiola]

"looks professional"? what does that mean, exactly? it says "billing" somewhere on the desktop? most computers i've seen in businesses look horrible.

You may of misunderstood me, I did not refer to professional in the business sense.

The term professional used here refers to the quality of the end product as in kde4 that's been produced by the developers.

"When someone does a professional job" as oppossed to amaturish

[SomeGuyDude]

KDE is only "professional" in that it's very polished. Functionally speaking is another story entirely.

[fabiola]

I guarantee you, right now, that my Compiz setup is FAR lighter than your KDE4 setup


I don't run kde4, installed right now is kdemod with integrated compositing, faster than any Gnome experience i dare remember.

[=^,^=]

KDE is only "professional" in that it's very polished. Functionally speaking is another story entirely.
I dont understand people saying it isnt intuitive!

The desktop folder is a just like a normal desktop for placing shortcuts!

And I can quickly access anything by clicking kickoff and typing the first 3 or 4 letters and hitting enter!

[SomeGuyDude]

I don't run kde4, installed right now is kdemod with integrated compositing, faster than any Gnome experience i dare remember.

I didn't say anything about GNOME. I said Compiz, which is its own window manager. :popcorn:

[SomeGuyDude]

I dont understand people saying it isnt intuitive!

The desktop folder is a just like a normal desktop for placing shortcuts!

And I can quickly access anything clicking kickoff and typing the first 3 or 4 letters and hitting enter!

Quick, change your clock format from 24h to 12h. If you've done it before, then admit that the method to do it is hilariously unintuitive.

[inobe]

to say they hate it is a bit extreme' however i can understand why some would dislike !

i also understand why so many love it, it's personal preference, simply said to each their own.

[Hells_Dark]

I'm a gnome lover.
I tried kde 4 and i've been impressed !
I'm still on gnome because i like its (relative) minimalism an ergonomy but i'm waiting for gnome 3…
I used to be a kde hater (kinda). With kde 4, i'm not anymore.

[RiceMonster]

Quick, change your clock format from 24h to 12h. If you've done it before, then admit that the method to do it is hilariously unintuitive.

Yeah, when I tried it, I had to do a google search on how to change it. Why can't I just right click on the clock and do it from there?

[SomeGuyDude]

Yeah, when I tried it, I had to do a google search on how to change it. Why can't I just right click on the clock and do it from there?

To me, that's representative of the KDE philosophy. They throw the kitchen sink at you and the result is it turns into this labyrinthine monster that may very well be ultra-customizable, but you end up having to google how to accomplish simple tasks. After I spent an afternoon flailing around trying to just change the dang theme I said heck with it.

[chucky chuckaluck]

You may of misunderstood me, I did not refer to professional in the business sense.

The term professional used here refers to the quality of the end product as in kde4 that's been produced by the developers.

"When someone does a professional job" as oppossed to amaturish

i think you said that it both looks and feels professional. i agree that it looks great (except for that stupid thing in the corner that looks like it's related to the gnome foot). but, i have to disagree about the feel. it doesn't even feel done yet. it was next to unusable in 4.1 and there are still a number of features that were part of 3.5 that have either been abandoned, or still in the works (it's like dumping old reliable for a 'party girl'). even so, i'm pretty roped in by it now (who doesn't like a 'party girl'?) and look forward to what it could end up being. i just wouldn't call it professional yet, in that regard.

[inobe]

i am a kubuntu user and agree they need to work on the time :lol:


i still love it, version 4.2.2 saved it, i was ready to dump it for good !

edit; actually the clock can be adjusted in system settings with opensuse, i don't know why it's not in kubuntu.

[haemulon]

That thing in the corner looks ugly.

KDE I have to work to figure it out, but it doesn't mean that much to me, I have better things to do.

[inobe]

oh it's system settings> regional and language> time and dates> change from HH:MM:SS to pH:MM:SS AMPM.

i don't know why the setting is in regional and language ?

[Lunx]

Until I discovered the joys of Linux at the beginning of the year I'd only had experience with Windows 2000 and XP. I started with Ubuntu and so I became acquainted with Gnome first (And when first starting out as a complete n00b, it was the desktop environment that sold me on the idea of saying goodbye to MS OS's, but the novelty has worn off a little now). I have since tried several distros with KDE, but perhaps it's because I didn't begin with it that I find it less intuitive and more confusing. Haven't found one distro yet where I like the menus, seems slow and difficult to navigate compared with Gnome (other distros I've tried with Gnome don't seem to pull it off as well as Ubuntu, but as I said, that's most likely because it's what I began with and feel most comfortable using. To be honest, I've been playing with CrunchBang and really like OpenBox, and JWM in Puppy suits me when I don't need eye-candy and unneccessary functionality getting in my way from the actual task to hand (Wobbly Windows and Desktop Cubes aren't something I need when I'm simply editing a text file).

[CraigPaleo]

I've tried Gnome but never liked how there isn't a GUI for configuring the widget style (i mean actually configing it not just changing the GTK) or changing the color scheme. Sure there is. You can mix and match to your heart's content. One of the great things about Gnome is how easy it is to customize.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/wormmy1/8e7fda81.png

P.S. This screenshot look awful! Photobucket degrading my pics or the forum is enlarging them. Direct link (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/wormmy1/8e7fda81.png) is much better.

P.P.S. Never mind. My browser was enlarging it. It's fixed now.

[mrowth]

Looks exactly the same to me (using Opera)

[CraigPaleo]

Looks exactly the same to me (using Opera)

Ah... I think I know what it is. I just zoomed out and it's fine. I've had the forum zoomed in one because the text was just a tad too small for me. I didn't realize that Firefox remembers the sites we zoom in on.

Edit: I've set it to zoom text only and it's perfect.

[element_G]

lxappearance is a great app for making all the theme, icon and font choices for you. if you use it with gksudo (is it?), you can make root look good, too.

I really like synaptic and have been using it in KDE because adept sucks. Thanks for fixing my UGLY synaptic!

@CraigPaleo (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=608352), that gui posted looks like you can TWEAK the GTK not actually configure it in a GUI like Qtcurve
http://www.lookpic.com/files/qtcurveconfig.png

[kk0sse54]

To me, that's representative of the KDE philosophy. They throw the kitchen sink at you and the result is it turns into this labyrinthine monster that may very well be ultra-customizable, but you end up having to google how to accomplish simple tasks. After I spent an afternoon flailing around trying to just change the dang theme I said heck with it.

It's all in one's perception, I think KDE ability to install new plasma themes directly from Appearance Settings is brilliant as well as install new icons from System Settings (although not all of them work). To me KDE is offers me functionality while still offering simplicity that I have never expierenced on the gnome level. I have never had KDE 4.2 crash on me (although I don't even want think about KDE 4.1 :() and personally I love the integration and it gives me the feeling of being a fully complete desktop. Of course there's a hell of a lot of work that still needs to be done, but what I see coming out of the KDE project is innovation and a drive to move forward that really seems unmatched by gnome.I know this is totally personal opinion and each person seees things differently but that's just my two cents.

[chucky chuckaluck]

Thanks for fixing my UGLY synaptic!

my pleasure. synaptic is good piece of work.

[VMalloy]

@CraigPaleo (http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\\\\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=608352\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\"\\\\" \\"\"), that gui posted looks like you can TWEAK the GTK not actually configure it in a GUI like Qtcurve
http://www.lookpic.com/files/qtcurveconfig.png (http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\\\\\"http://ubuntuforums.org:80/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"http://www.lookpic.com/files/qtcurveconfig.png\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\"\\\\"\\ "\")

That looks quite simple. Where might I get this Qtcurve? All I hear about is ubuntu studio and it\'s been rubbed in my face quite freaquently. I\'m unable to come up wih the more professional objects, widgets and styles for KDE. Serious artist that I am, I\'m considering the most unobtrusive yet functional and esthetically pleasing themes for KDE. It\'s just been to difficult as of late.

[Tom Mann]

I keep thinking of the old Grolsch adverts in the UK...

Shhhtop! It's not ready yet!

I'm running Jaunty Kubuntu (KDE4.2) and think it is superb. They've come a long way. It's not quite at 3.5 usability, but good enough to recommend to my friends and family.

And they love it too :)

@People that say it looks like Windows: 1) How 2) If so is that such a bad thing? It's what's underneath that makes Windows so rickety.

[halovivek]

I really Hate thats why i am not using KDE and so I use gnome for more than 4 years

[ukripper]

I don't hate KDE4 but prefer GNOME!:P

[CraigPaleo]

I really like synaptic and have been using it in KDE because adept sucks. Thanks for fixing my UGLY synaptic!

@CraigPaleo (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=608352), that gui posted looks like you can TWEAK the GTK not actually configure it in a GUI like Qtcurve
http://www.lookpic.com/files/qtcurveconfig.png

Okay, I see. I've found lxappearance and Qtcurve seems to be installed but all I can find is something called Qt Configuration. Where is this thing hiding out?

[por100pre1]

Okay, I see. I've found lxappearance and Qtcurve seems to be installed but all I can find is something called Qt Configuration. Where is this thing hiding out?


/usr/bin/qtconfig-qt4

[SomeGuyDude]

I don't think everyone, or even most people hate KDE. But you see far less "KDE is great!" posts because those people are actually USING KDE rather than complaining it doesn't work. It's quite amazing how people don't like it because it's different, and then bash Windows users for not liking Linux because it's different. Hypocrisy much?

:lolflag:

For real? You've seen people disliking KDE because it's different? Really? Show me one person saying that anywhere in this thread. C'mon. Find one. I'll wait.

No, the reason I dislike KDE is because I've used it and its features are not ones that I like. There's no hypocrisy. If I put mayonnaise on ice cream it's "different", but that's not why I don't want to eat it.

[element_G]

That looks quite simple. Where might I get this Qtcurve? All I hear about is ubuntu studio and it\'s been rubbed in my face quite freaquently. I\'m unable to come up wih the more professional objects, widgets and styles for KDE. Serious artist that I am, I\'m considering the most unobtrusive yet functional and esthetically pleasing themes for KDE. It\'s just been to difficult as of late.

Qtcurve can be installed with the following:


sudo apt-get install kde-style-qtcurve kwin-style-qtcurve gtk2-engines-qtcurve If you're using qtcurve as your KDE style, make sure that you select it as your gtk in systemsettings instead of "use my KDE widget style".

For GNOME users etc. you can modify the look of KDE/qt programs with qtconfig

[Guillaumeb]

Yea , it's cool for initial impressions but once I need to get down to work or on a mission to complete a task regardless of the importance I could care less about glitz.

Which is WHY I love Gnome.....Simplicity.

Exactly ! I find GNOME to be much straightforward, both powerful and -unlike KDE - unpretentious

[SuperSonic4]

Exactly ! I find GNOME to be much straightforward, both powerful and -unlike KDE - unpretentious

Pretty =/= Pretentious?

Just because something looks good it does not make it pretentious. I find KDE 4.2 (technically KDEmod 4.2 xD) to be very good and the apps to be much better than gnome. I've had no major crashes that have caused me to have data loss through being unable to save data and it runs smoothly

[khelben1979]

I have never seen KDE 4 in action myself, yet. Guess I will be searching YouTube for some at a later time (I'm cooking right now).

[Sand & Mercury]

People that find KDE's abundance of options scary should steer clear of Enlightenment.

[Guillaumeb]

People that find KDE's abundance of options scary should steer clear of Enlightenment.

mouarf! how could a Windows-wannabe environment scare anyone ...

[JoshuaRL]

mouarf! how could a Windows-wannabe environment scare anyone ...

Please stop that. KDE is not a Windows-wannabe. If you've used Vista and 4.2 I'm sure you'll agree that the only thing they have in common is glassy compositing and widgets. Which most modern UIs have now. KDE is much deeper and, with the zoom feature, allows modifying to almost any configuration of software and hardware.

[SomeGuyDude]

Please stop that. KDE is not a Windows-wannabe. If you've used Vista and 4.2 I'm sure you'll agree that the only thing they have in common is glassy compositing and widgets. Which most modern UIs have now. KDE is much deeper and, with the zoom feature, allows modifying to almost any configuration of software and hardware.

Really the only thing I see as similar is that their taskbar is singular and at the bottom. Other than that... quite different.

[espiral]

On this forum Kde abuse seems to be abundant.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2010536fc4f48970c-320wi

[markp1989]

I never tried kde4, installing it now, i will probably stick with openbox as i prefer a light setup, but i cant have an opinion if i dont try it lol

looking on the kde site, it does look very vista ish, i dont mean that as a bad thing , the only thing i liked about vista was the looks .

[doas777]

it's 4.0 that everyone hates. it's 4.1 that everyone loves.
personally I tend toward gnome with ubuntu, but some of the latest kde stuff is awful slick.

[SomeGuyDude]

it's 4.0 that everyone hates. it's 4.1 that everyone loves.

That's true if it was the bugs that turned you off from it. For me, even a fully-functioning KDE isn't great because I quite simply don't like its features and layout.

Still, for those who like KDE's design philosophy, I recognize how incredibly slick it is.

[=^,^=]

it's 4.0 that everyone hates. it's 4.1 that everyone loves.
personally I tend toward gnome with ubuntu, but some of the latest kde stuff is awful slick.

4.1 is very buggy!

[mechanic]

4.2.2 is pretty, and holds up well.

[JoshuaRL]

4.2.2 is pretty, and holds up well.

Installing right now! :)

[James_Lochhead]

I don't like kde4 because:


The theme is too bright and cartoony. I want something serious.
There are not enough themes available yet.
The K branding is very annoying.
I still don't like QT, even if you can now change the look.
Some apps still looks like KDE 3. I hate KDE 3. I merely dislike KDE4.
KMail won't let me use my university email account.


It is not that straight forward though. I like kde4 because:


Plasma is great. KDE panel is now way more powerful than GNOME.
There is lot of intergration.
Lots of stuff has been packed in to a small space to make kde4 effective. e.g. lancelot document and contacts menu.
Kate integrated terminal is great. So is dolphins.
Dolphin split panel is great.
Desktop customization is great.
Loading is a lot smoother.

[JoshuaRL]

I agree that there are some definite places that need work. But for me, I see a pace of development that clearly outshines Gnome. And I'm willing to put up with the small annoyances from KDE to have a deeper experience and a hope for an even better one in the near future.

[itix]

Please stop that. KDE is not a Windows-wannabe. If you've used Vista and 4.2 I'm sure you'll agree that the only thing they have in common is glassy compositing and widgets. Which most modern UIs have now. KDE is much deeper and, with the zoom feature, allows modifying to almost any configuration of software and hardware.

I agree.. KDE is probably the most beautiful DE I've seen. Far more pretty than the awful vista. I like that, but I most certainly don't like adept or dolphin. They're awful. The menu is worthless too.


KDE 4
+
*Looks!

-
*Doplhin, Adept

KDE 3
+
*Nothing

-
*Everything

It's going in the right direction, but Kubuntu 8.10 that I tried had these annoying screen flicks every minute or so. Dolphin was completely worthless and drove me crazy. Who the hell thought it intuitive to have a tiny plus in the corners that means select and single click to open things. There has never been a file browser that has worked that way ever in history. At least none that I have used. Completely idiotic!

[JoshuaRL]

Who the hell thought it intuitive to have a tiny plus in the corners that means select and single click to open things. There has never been a file browser that has worked that way ever in history. At least none that I have used. Completely idiotic!

Yeah, the select thing wasn't very obvious. But the one-click open is a KDE thing, not really just a Dolphin thing. Been that way for a while.

[JohnFH]

I've been a Kubuntu user for about 18 months, but have now reverted to Gnome. I have tried out Kubuntu Jaunty for the past few weeks and it looks great, but it's still not stable enough and the layout is not great. I don't like kde4 menu layout (I gave it plenty of time, but I don't think it's a good design at all). I also had problems with the stability of the desktop. For example, conky dies when I click on the desktop, the desktop and panels occasionally hang and firefox sometimes just disappears! Since I switched to using Gnome desktop, all these issues have gone away and what's more, Gnome is noticably faster and more responsive which I didn't expect.

So KDE 3.5 was great, KDE 4.2 'looks' even better, but it's not stable, it's sluggish and doesn't work the way I want it to. Big big shame - they've just lost a big KDE fan.

[element_G]

Yeah, the select thing wasn't very obvious. But the one-click open is a KDE thing, not really just a Dolphin thing. Been that way for a while.

To change to double click go into systemsettings > keyboard & mouse > mouse > 'double click to open files and folders'

[CraigPaleo]

Whose the overmadeup chick in your avatar?

I swear that it's Charo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charo)!

Cuchi cuchi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaWi5iWsysg&feature=related)! You can only remember that if you're as old as I am!

[itix]

Yeah, the select thing wasn't very obvious. But the one-click open is a KDE thing, not really just a Dolphin thing. Been that way for a while.

Are you sure it's not a Dolphin thing?
I used solaris with KDE 3.5 with konqueror, and that had double click open.

[SuperSonic4]

Are you sure it's not a Dolphin thing then?
I used solaris with KDE 3.5 with konqueror, and that had double click open.

It's single click in KDE here, in dolphin and konqueror

[itix]

Wierd... I hope that one might easily change that in future releases. Stupid as hell!

[Vadi]

Me personally - I really don't fit the user they were designing it for, apparently.

Plus, never was big into widgets/screenlets & etc, so not attracted to plasma either.

[itix]

"Plus, never was big into widgets/screenlets & etc, so not attracted to plasma either."

and the signature says

"Easily install Google Gadgets (no compiling)"

That, my friend, is a contradiction! ;)

[Vadi]

No it's not - I don't use them personally for over half a year now, and their website doesn't provide .debs for Ubuntu users so I point to them.

[JoshuaRL]

SNIP

I love your avatar, thats pretty sweet.

[chucky chuckaluck]

I love your avatar, thats pretty sweet.

me too. makes a nice kde wallpaper...

[3Miro]

I had some trouble with KDE 4.1 at first, but since I upgraded to 4.2 I have no complaints.

I love all the apps, Kaffeine, Dragoon (hated it at first, but now I am using it regularly), KTorrent, Konqueror (with the dual screen option), Dolphin (dual screen again, nautilus is missing on this one), widgets to monitor temperature and CPU, smoother effects than compiz plus some extra ones (overall compiz has more effects than kwin, but kwin has some that compiz does not), all the settings are more structured than in Gnome, and unlike 4.1 4.2 is very stable.

I don't mean to say bad things about Gnome, I am using Gnome on my laptop and I also like it, just for my needs KDE is ahead right now.

[CraigPaleo]

me too. makes a nice kde wallpaper...

CHUCKY! You'd better behave yourself right this minute. You've been found out! Stinker!!

Wallpaper, yeah right!

[gymophett]

It's just not for me. Sort of like Windows, and I don't like to UI. I prefer GNOME. But whatever floats your boat.

[Wolf-Ekkehard]

People you hear gripe about it don't "hate kde4". After all, if they don't like kdex, they can use gnome, and they typically would switch silently, since personal preferences are just that - personal. So what you hear is mostly people who love the well-structured architecture but hate the lousy execution and the apparently non-existent quality control that kde4 had and has.

If I start an app that crashes during a routine task I get irate, especially if I then find tons of unresolved "FIXME"-s in the code (as I did with the printer app of 4.1).

I just installed Kubuntu 9.04 yesterday, clicked on "System Settings" - AND IT CRASHED!!! Reproducibly! Before even putting up its window. The cool but otherwise useless transparency and rotation-with-arbitrary-angles features of plasma work flawlessly!! Does it take more than these upside-down priorities to get anybody upset? I use my computer to do work, not to gaze in admiration at some entirely useless features of its GUI. Also, filling in bug reports is definitely not my favorite pastime, but I'll do it to help get kde4 to the quality standards that it needs to have - after all, I still love its architecture.

"Release early - release often" is fine for alphas and betas - after that, this strategy is better left to Redmond - their customers don't seem to mind...

[chucky chuckaluck]

CHUCKY! You'd better behave yourself right this minute. You've been found out! Stinker!!

Wallpaper, yeah right!

moi?

[tbroderick]

I just installed Kubuntu 9.04 yesterday, clicked on "System Settings" - AND IT CRASHED!!! Reproducibly! Before even putting up its window.

Kubuntu is buggy. Kde 4.2 isn't.

[wispygalaxy]

I plan to get KDE 4 very soon. The reason I didn't get it immediately was that I wasn't sure that I would be comfortable with it. (I use KDE 3.5 now.) After learning more about KDE 4, I became more confident that I should upgrade. The eye candy is excellent, not distracting at all. As usual, there are many options with regards to customization. Gnome was alright for me, but I think that KDE is way more pleasurable to use. I might even give Xfce a try... 8-)

[Vadi]

I found it on a random blog. Don't know where the original credits go to, but here is a bigger version: http://ubuntuarte.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/92680-jaunty.png

[simonbanyard]

Hi all! I wouldn't say that I hate KDE 4, I've just gotten used to Gnome. I find KDE alien and hard to get along with. Don't know why... Infact the only thing I hate about KDE is the fact that EVERYTHING starts with 'K'! Given the choice between KDE and Windows, however, KDE wins hands down!

[JoshuaRL]

NOTE: Open Source rant coming ...


"Release early - release often" is fine for alphas and betas - after that, this strategy is better left to Redmond - their customers don't seem to mind...

Actually I need to take issue with that statement. First off, Microsoft never releases early or often. Even the infamous Vista was released way late of it's original ship date. Maybe Windows 7 will meet it's goal, it's still a little early to see.

But that phrase is a rallying point for FOSS development. If you get a chance to read The Hacker Ethic by Pekka Himanen, or more importantly in this context The Cathedral and the Bazaar by Eric S. Raymond, you'll see that this is a core part of open development.

It goes like this: applications that would by proprietary and corporate standards be alpha or pre-alpha get released to the wild. Then users take the source and see what they like, what they dislike, and what they think needs to be done. If properly engaged, this userbase BECOMES the developers. Quick release cycles then allow it to evolve at lightning speed. The power of Linux and Open Source only comes from this type of development. This is the "bazaar" that Raymond describes. Linux and open source follow this design method, and the results are apparent.

In the earlier Unix-y development style a small number of coders would hole up and try to develop a fully fledged application by themselves. This would take considerable time, work, and dedication. And even then, sometimes huge flaws would be apparent at launch. Then, usually, only the core group of original designers would be trusted to fix or improve the code. Even if the source is available, it doesn't benefit from the power of the crowd. This is the "cathedral" Raymond describes. Proprietary and corporate applications usually follow this design method, and I'd say that the results are again apparent.

So if you want a fast, secure, quickly evolving operating system that intermingles with everything, and has it's fingers on the pulse of what users want, you need to use the FOSS development model. That includes as a main point "release early, release often."

[Namtabmai]

What I like about KDE

It allows me to configure almost everything.

What I don't like about KDE

The default settings make me have to configure nearly everything.

What I like about Gnome

The default settings.

What I don't like about Gnome

Even with gconf, I can't reconfigure the few default settings I don't like.

Basically I love the configurable nature of KDE, but find Gnome the easiest to work with.

[Wolf-Ekkehard]

I am all too well aware of that - and I didn't mean "early" in a calendar sense. I am all for short development cycles or sprints - but without more features bitten off than the developers and testers can actually chew. I meant it in a maturity sense. And in that sense Vista was released WAY early. And so was KDE 4.1 (and here I mean KDE) in the *LTS* Kubuntu Intrepid. Code that is released too immaturely and with too many bugs may help the developers (as they get feedback early), but not the users, especially not those who don't need/want half of the features that got released but instead critically depend on some of the stuff that just doesn't work right yet. If the balance is struck right though, both win.

Other than that, I couldn't disagree less with anything you said :-)

So to clarify: I didn't mean to criticize the short development cycle at all, but rather the amount and priorization of features that got released and the quality control of Kubuntu. Sorry tbroderick, I should have said Kubuntu when I was talking about systemsettings as I have not investigated whether KDE itself is buggy or just Kubuntu. In the case of the print tool in KDE 4.1 it was definitely KDE that was broken, though!

[ubuntunewb75]

I guess its because I really really liked KDE3.5 and recommended it to everyone. I jumped right into KDE 4.0 when it was released on Arch and was sorely disappointed in the interface. Granted, its very pretty, but the way it does plasmids drives me batty. The final straw was when I deleted my panel while experimenting (read-screwing around) and could never get it back the the way it was. Off KDE went and on went Openbox. If I was going to have to customize that much with a DE, why bother when you could dive right into customizing a window manager?

my .02

[CraigPaleo]

moi?
Vous. :P Pardon my French.

[oack]

:popcorn:

I found that compositing effects in kde4 and Aero to offer much more than compiz-fusion in terms of everyday usage.

Sure thing that compiz-fusion can do some unique and fancy tat but it's all for looks and rarely needed in everyday use.

[Tibuda]

:popcorn:

I found that compositing effects in kde4 and Aero to offer much more than compiz-fusion in terms of everyday usage.

Sure thing that compiz-fusion can do some unique and fancy tat but it's all for looks and rarely needed in everyday use.

Can you tell me what kde4 and Aero effects offer "in terms of everyday usage"?

[JoshuaRL]

Can you tell me what kde4 and Aero effects offer "in terms of everyday usage"?

Stability and smaller resource footprint. I've only had kwin fail once, and that was on a heavily modded Intrepid (kubuntu-experimental PPAs installed, among other things.) Compiz has crashed tons of times on me.

[Tibuda]

Stability and smaller resource footprint. I've only had kwin fail once, and that was on a heavily modded Intrepid (kubuntu-experimental PPAs installed, among other things.) Compiz has crashed tons of times on me.
That's not my experience, but it's ok. I don't hate anything because of that (that's my answer to the thread title).

[kevdog]

After reading all the fanboyism in this thread, I think I'll stick with E17!

[boglio]

I've been using kde since 3.2 and never stopped(still using 3.5.10)but when kde4 came out I was pretty excited but it quickly became a feeling of dissappointment! I dropped kubuntu as soon as they forced 4.x on us, I just don't like gnome it just doesn't feel right for me so I was pretty forced to find myself another distro though i still use ubuntu from time to time.

[CraigPaleo]

I've been using kde since 3.2 and never stopped(still using 3.5.10)but when kde4 came out I was pretty excited but it quickly became a feeling of dissappointment! I dropped kubuntu as soon as they forced 4.x on us, I just don't like gnome it just doesn't feel right for me so I was pretty forced to find myself another distro though i still use ubuntu from time to time.

There's a KDE3 verstion of Kubuntu Jaunty. It's RC now. http://www.kubuntu.org/node/77

[=^,^=]

After reading all the fanboyism in this thread, I think I'll stick with E17!

Whats e17?

[Mehall]

Whats e17?

Enlightenment. Version 17

16 is good, 17 can break daily if you update from the svn. It's still pre-Beta, but there are a LOT of users.

It's nice enough, but not anything fantastically great to make me use it.

I have an Elive testing disc somewhere though.

[Changturkey]

There's a KDE3 verstion of Kubuntu Jaunty. It's RC now. http://www.kubuntu.org/node/77

RC2 to be exact.

[Orlsend]

To me KDE reminds me of Mac related sutff, which I dont like to be related with. (IMO)

[schmidtbag]

i don't like kde because of the feel of it, its too different and feels like a mac to me. it has so many unnecessary gimmicky features to it. i do think its much more advanced than gnome, though. theres so many built-in features kde has i wish gnome had. its a lot more modern, but modern isn't everything. computers are meant to make life easier and more fun, or more practical. kde isn't entirely practical imo, just nice.

[Zorael]

I like KDE4. I don't mind GNOME, but it's losing out in most aspects when I compare the two. One thing that always bug me when I use GNOME is that I want to reorganize the toolbars in programs, something that's pretty universally supported in KDE-bundled apps (and stuff following the same design ethos), but apparently isn't in GNOME.

And KDE is as lean as you'll make it; while plasma does allow for gadgets and analog clocks to fill your whole desktop with, you could just limit it to a panel with a menu, an application tray, a system tray, and a clock. Set the menu to behave as a classic menu if you don't like it. And set the desktop to be a Folder View if you want it to be vanilla desktop-esque.

As frameworks go, plasma is pretty impressive; imagine a Conky plasmoid and an awn plasmoid, along with your panels/clocks/systrays, and then consider all the shared code.

4.0 was a mistake, as was 4.1. 4.2 is very usable, and I have high hopes for 4.3+.

I wish Canonical would invest more effort into making Kubuntu a more solid distro though. How about our own wallpaper, for starters? A Kubuntu one, and not just the bland KDE4 default.

And while it's commendable that Konqueror works to the extent that it does browser-wise, it's naïve to say that "KDE users will just use it instead of Firefox", and not bundle Kubuntu with the latter, considering how it has grown to pretty much be the de-facto standard after Internet Explorer.

Gief Qt Firefox plx. Or native Chromium with extension support.

[GreyGeek]

I love it!

So do I.

I LOUD minority of ranters does not compose a majority.

[boglio]

There's a KDE3 verstion of Kubuntu Jaunty. It's RC now. http://www.kubuntu.org/node/77

Just might try this one.

[JoshuaRL]

After reading all the fanboyism in this thread, I think I'll stick with E17!

I would use only e17 if I could. But it's too unstable for me. If they would just get down to a real stable release I'd be so happy. Give me quickness and stability, then add all the "bling" you want. But some of the widgets are pretty useful.

[Guitar John]

I didn't really hate KDE4. I just found that it was not for me (http://dadgadjohn.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html).

I am actually moving in the opposite direction. I have used Gnome since I started using Ubuntu in 2006. I am going to switch, at least temporarily to Xfce. Not that my computers cannot handle Gnome. I just want to try it.

[=^,^=]

Enlightenment. Version 17

16 is good, 17 can break daily if you update from the svn. It's still pre-Beta, but there are a LOT of users.

It's nice enough, but not anything fantastically great to make me use it.

I have an Elive testing disc somewhere though.

Ok thanks!

[Tom Mann]

What... people use desktop environments? :popcorn:

[orasis]

It's not really hate - it's the fact that KDE was the swiss army knife of DE's and then KDE became a QT version of Gnome.

But instead of being relatively simple, stable, albeit sometimes memory hungry like Gnome - It went too simple (makes Gnome feel like KDE 3.5.) unstable (it's still unstable even with 4.2.2) and EXTREMELY resource hungry.

It's like a Vista copy - but Vista sucked - so why copy it?

Not even Windows users liked Vista.. What were the developers thinking!?!?!

Bah

[garythegoth]

It's not really hate - it's the fact that KDE was the swiss army knife of DE's and then KDE became a QT version of Gnome.

But instead of being relatively simple, stable, albeit sometimes memory hungry like Gnome - It went too simple (makes Gnome feel like KDE 3.5.) unstable (it's still unstable even with 4.2.2) and EXTREMELY resource hungry.

It's like a Vista copy - but Vista sucked - so why copy it?

Not even Windows users liked Vista.. What were the developers thinking!?!?!

Bah

KDE4 used to suck like a pr0nstar. It isnt so bad anymore.

[0per4t0r]

Besides, it reminds me of Windows. :(
More specifically, vista *shudders*. for a while I almost thought it was windows (back in the n00b years) I've only briefly tried KDE, and I like the splash screen that has the notification for detection of disks, desktop, etc. I just wished they would put the labels underneath them instead of just the logos! That way you know what the heck it's doing!

[init1]

Eh, KDE is a bit heavy for my old laptop. I might try it once I get a better one.

[Skippy_X]

I like KDE 4. I've not tried the newest release (upgrading to Kubuntu 9.04 as I type this).

I went from Ubuntu Hardy (been using ubuntu since breezy) to Kubuntu (intrepid) and it's taken a bit of getting used to. My chief complaint so far is I can't sync my palm tungsten w/ 8.10. I'm hoping that's fixed in Jaunty.

[samjh]

I used to think KDE 4 sucked. I tried it when it was first released, then again at 4.1. Both were pretty bad, although 4.1 was an improvement.

Yesterday, I installed 4.2 (Kubuntu Jaunty). Fantastic stuff! No crashes or any kind of instability whatsoever (although Gnome is just as stable). The built-in compositing manager, KWin, is reasonably good and doesn't use much system resources.

However, 4.2 still has some niggles. It sometimes won't find the right application icons in Kickoff (eg. Firefox), you can't arrange Kickoff's list of items using application name - Kickoff lists in order of application description, which can be confusing for users who have migrated from Gnome or Windows. Even worse, the ordering of items can't be changed. I also dislike the default desktop folder widget: it's a waste of space and serves no real purpose. KUser doesn't show list of users in a group properly (eg. on my system, my user and root should be in vboxusers, but KUser shows vboxusers as empty). Amarok hasn't been ported to KDE 4 yet. Dolphin is too cluttered (although it can be cleaned up by closing some panels). Most of these are minor annoyances, but they are annoyances that don't exist in Gnome.

Overall, I have come to like KDE 4. It's not quite as polished as Gnome, but the amount of improvements since initial release has been staggering.

[sertse]

Kickoff lists in order of application description, which can be confusing for users who have migrated from Gnome or Windows.

In a way, that makes more "sense" and intuitive , you're looking for an app because you want to do something, not because you are looking for an app. The issue is just years of windows conditioning doing it the wrong way.

Personally, I've tried and just don't see the appeal? I don't use desktop widgets, and once you take that out...it isn't so "special" or a whole new way of computing like the hype suggests.

[GeekGirl1]

I've been using OS's for a long time. Due to partition problems, I just installed kubuntu 9.04 using wubi, which means I also use Win XP.

Aside from opinions about the business side, one of the things that Microsoft does well is understand GUI design (recent versions of Office are another matter...). I have no problem using any version of a Microsoft OS.

I have no problem with any flavor of UNIX, like Sun Solaris or HPUX. Personally, I think Sun Solaris and HPUX have better GUIs than Win XP.

However, when I fired up KDE 4, I was lost. I think the problem is that the icons don't match up with my idea of where the applications lie.

For example:
Why is a backwards arrow used to indicate a program list ("task button" on the bottom left)? A "star" or "Start" type of button would be more intuitive.

In the applications list, why is there a "Settings" menu which should obviously be part of the "System" menu?

Why is there a "System Settings" menu under "Computer"? This should also be part of the "System" menu.

I was looking for a "minimize desktop" icon. I clicked on the black square at the bottom right of the menu bar by accident. No clue otherwise as to what it was supposed to do.

As for configuration of the windows look-and-feel, why don't the themes cover the entire desktop? I'm not going to load a theme for the window, then one for the wallpaper. It has to be totally integrated.

I love ubuntu and I'm glad that XFCE and LXDE are included in the packages. I'm dumping KDE as soon as I can.

Update: I click on "Show Plasma Dashboard" and the taskbar disappears. I click on that Nautilus looking thing in the top right corner that says "Hide Plasma Dashboard" and the taskbar comes back. The problem is not that it's a new design, it's that it's a very poor design. I may as well try to memorize random shapes and guess what they do. No.

[samjh]

Why is a backwards arrow used to indicate a program list ("task button" on the bottom left)? A "star" or "Start" type of button would be more intuitive.There is no "backwards arrow". Are you talking about the KDE icon? Windows Vista uses the Windows icon.


In the applications list, why is there a "Settings" menu which should obviously be part of the "System" menu?I've wondered about this myself, although I have to say this is actually a subjective desire, not "bad design".


Why is there a "System Settings" menu under "Computer"? This should also be part of the "System" menu.Again, I agree with the system menu part, but it should also be under Computer.


I was looking for a "minimize desktop" icon. I clicked on the black square at the bottom right of the menu bar by accident. No clue otherwise as to what it was supposed to do.I don't know which button you are talking about. I'm looking at KDE right now as I type, but see no "black square at the bottom right of the menu bar".


Update: I click on "Show Plasma Dashboard" and the taskbar disappears. I click on that Nautilus looking thing in the top right corner that says "Hide Plasma Dashboard" and the taskbar comes back.Yes, this is quite annoying. I was befuddled by the plasma thing too.


The problem is not that it's a new design, it's that it's a very poor design. I may as well try to memorize random shapes and guess what they do. No.I can't agree that this is the case. It's just that we have been conditioned to look at particular icon contexts by our use of Windows (or whatever other OS we are used to using). KDE maintains most of these contexts, but breaks a few as well (eg. the Plasma icon). For instance, I find it perfectly logical that KDE uses the KDE icon in place of the so-called "start" menu in Windows XP. In fact, Vista uses the Windows Vista icon, which is just as uninformative as the KDE icon. Having said that, I would have preferred the KDE icon with something like "MENU" written alongside it, merged to form one rectangular icon. KDE's choice of icon for the plasma desktop is just bizarre.

It's important when critiquing a GUI that you differentiate between what you as an individual want, and what is actually good design. KDE's design isn't outright bad, even if they have made some strange decisions. It breaks some conventions because there are architectural features in KDE which are not present in other GUIs (Plasma desktop being a particularly unique feature), so users do have to learn to think differently from before. This is not objectively bad, but subjectively perceived as bad because users aren't familiar with it yet. You said it yourself that recent designs of MS Office is "another matter", just after you praised Microsoft's UI designs. Microsoft implemented an unconventional UI feature with MS Office 2007, so resistance from users are inevitable. KDE has implemented some unconventional UI features, so users' reactions are bad too. When Windows 95 was released with its "start menu" and "task bar", I recall the IT world being in uproar because of "poor" design, which we have now come to accept as "standard".

By the way, Sun Solaris uses a customised version of Gnome. Ubuntu uses Gnome by default.

[toejamfootball]

I don't hate it at all. I actually really like how it looks when people config it really nice. I just found it ran extremely slow on my old PC. Xfce4 runs super quick, but I like Gnome. I sacrifice a little speed to use Gnome.

[wamukota]

I've been using KDE ever since.

I try every new release of KDE4 and still have problems coming to grips with it. I simply have to unlearn my years and years of KDE3 habits. Then I must figure out how to do some things the KDE4 way.

A simple feature like making a transparent panel (in KDE3, right-click and customize the whole panel) is now done using a global theme. But the theme you have to apply - Glassified - is nowhere a standard theme, so you must get it from the net. Once you know, it seems logical.

Then you have the idea of folders and widgets on your desktop, which are covered as soon as you open your first application. :P
I still don't get the idea behind cluttering your desktop, but maybe a large group of desktop users just want the devs to allow them to use the desktop space for useful stuff. So for some it is overkill, for others it will be a reason to move to KDE4

Do I like it? No
Do I dislike it? No

After all it is simple a tool to get your job done, and with GNU/Linux you are free to use whatever tool you want to get your job done.

When KDE 3.5 will be phased out at the end of the year, - all new releases from KDE-based distro's are rolling out KDE4 now - KDE4 will be near version 4.4. And I am quite sure that by then most problems will have been solved, as long as those who dislike KDE4 have the honesty to let the devs know where it goes wrong or what they do not like. Only then will the devs be aware of the problem and can a solution be implemented.

[NightwishFan]

KDE4 was such a complete rewrite, which is why is steps all over the perfection of KDE3.5. When I say steps on I mean how it was received. I know quite well how difficult it was to get it all going. I feel bad for all the poor publicity it got.

Please note that KDE3.5 was built largely from the 2nd series as well. It has years and years to gain maturity, with relatively less breakage or rabid changes.

I personally like how KDE is still usable without compositing. Currently one of my only issues is I cannot figure out how to get the oxygen panel to be black on not that blue color. I think it would be better off using psuedo-transparency without kwin enabled, yet it does not.

[samjh]

Currently one of my only issues is I cannot figure out how to get the oxygen panel to be black on not that blue color. I think it would be better off using psuedo-transparency without kwin enabled, yet it does not.

The panel colour is influenced by the colour of your wallpaper. I discovered this while wondering the same thing. :) When I changed my wallpaper to a photo with lots of greenery, the panel changed green!

[NightwishFan]

I know, when I have compositing and then disable it, it remains the color of my wallpaper, though not always, it normally reverts to blue. On Kubuntu and Fedora it does this. It remains light blue always unless I enable compositing, which I normally do not do. I got AYA to follow my Qt Color scheme, that is it though.


First boot, panel is blue like Air wallpaper.
If I change to a red wallpaper, panel remains blue.
If I enable compositing, panel turns transparent.
If I disable compositing, 9 out of10 times panel reverts to being blue.


I will try OpenSUSE 11.1 KDE4.2 remix today, and see how that goes.

[oack]

Putting all aesthetics aside (easily changed) I am very happy with the direction kde4 is going with the likes of under the bonnet integration and the general philosophy behind kde.

[GeekGirl1]

There is no "backwards arrow". Are you talking about the KDE icon?It's the Kickoff Application Launcher, in the bottom left of the task bar. There's no Gear as in the KDE icon. Looks more like a "back" button in an MP3 player application.



I was looking for a "minimize desktop" icon. I clicked on the black square at the bottom right of the menu bar by accident. No clue otherwise as to what it was supposed to do.
I don't know which button you are talking about. I'm looking at KDE right now as I type, but see no "black square at the bottom right of the menu bar". It was the desktop switcher. I was confused.


It's important when critiquing a GUI that you differentiate between what you as an individual want, and what is actually good design...KDE has implemented some unconventional UI features, so users' reactions are bad too. When Windows 95 was released with its "start menu" and "task bar", I recall the IT world being in uproar because of "poor" design, which we have now come to accept as "standard".

By the way, Sun Solaris uses a customised version of Gnome. Ubuntu uses Gnome by default.OK, good point. If they can organize the menus better, that would help. I was using KDE 3.5 and didn't have any problems. I think the problem is that the GUI has too much extensibility enabled by default. If you disable those desktop objects that take up display real estate (Plasma and widgets that are on the right-top), then I would be happier. Anything that can be activated on the desktop that isn't an icon is very distracting. Maybe that's what I meant. I'll wait and see.

Update: I just switched to Gnome. I'm much happier- everything is where it should be. I found 3 files on my desktop that were hidden by KDE 4. The folder menu showed them, but they were not visible on the desktop (I checked both of them). More bugs. I'll try KDE 4 again when they update the release and have a better stability.

[Tipped OuT]

GNOME POWER!! :guitar:

Ugly my *** :lolflag:

[MontelEdwards]

I hate KDE 4. I don't know if I'm in the minority, or not, but it's not for me. It isn't for lack of trying either. Every time a new release comes out I try it, and hate it just as much as the last one. I will try the next one as well, and I'm sure I will hate that one too.
Yeah, so do it. It sucks i think.
Too much like my arch-enemy WINDOWS

[oack]

I love it!

As a gnome user

:) Generally it will be natural for Gnome/GtK users to hate Kde4, for many years kde was very similar to Gnome and not as popular, so Gnome users had nothing to fear.

So many negative troll/comments about Kde4 has driven me to try and stay with kde4, if only to get away from those that have given Gnome/GtK users a bad name.

When Gnome was competing with kde3 there was never any real hatred from kde users towards Gnome, but since kde4 poped up a slurry of bitterness has spread, reading through this thread makes me want to reinstall the old vista OEM Cd and forget about the time wasting trolling,
:lolflag:

If I have not liked a OS/DE then it was a simple overwrite and forget about it and never felt the need to start 101 threads explaining why.

Could the hate be beacuse kde4 has become something better and some carnt live with that?

[ibuclaw]

As a gnome user

:) Generally it will be natural for Gnome/GtK users to hate Kde4, for many years kde was very similar to Gnome and not as popular, so Gnome users had nothing to fear.

So many negative troll/comments about Kde4 has driven me to try and stay with kde4, if only to get away from those that have given Gnome/GtK users a bad name.

When Gnome was competing with kde3 there was never any real hatred from kde users towards Gnome, but since kde4 poped up a slurry of bitterness has spread, reading through this thread makes me want to reinstall the old vista OEM Cd and forget about the time wasting trolling,
:lolflag:

If I have not liked a OS/DE then it was a simple overwrite and forget about it and never felt the need to start 101 threads explaining why.

Could the hate be beacuse kde4 has become something better and some carnt live with that?

I actually have an affiliate who switched from Gnome to KDE after the final straw was broken, and he had many tough reasons to argue with about why he switched too, from the way Evolution works, to the Pidgin memory leaks, to the flaws and functionality of Compiz.

Having tried out KDE 4.2 myself, I must admit I am starting to prefer it more, despite having my odd grudge against it (Right-Click -> Open Terminal being a start to a list of many).

And I prefer the desktop effects of KDE more to that of Compiz too. With compiz, you tend to get odd glitches or "frame pauses" from time to time when carrying out certain tasks from idle. Yet this does not seem to be present in KDE.

KDE also allows you to configure desktop effects to a much lighter degree too. I mean, I love wobbly windows, but under compiz it is just way too much... In KDE, you can set it so you have to physically shake your mouse before you get any type of aesthetically pleasing movement from the window.

<3 :)

Regards
Iain

[JoshuaRL]

Having tried out KDE 4.2 myself, I must admit I am starting to prefer it more

Wait, what?

[XubuRoxMySox]

Y'know, this thread has really piqued my curiosity. Now I just have to try KDE, if only to see what all the fuss is about! The screenshots I've seen are very cool looking! Looks like fun for a newbie like me.

-Robin

[TWO]

And I prefer the desktop effects of KDE more to that of Compiz too.

Are desktop effects the most important thing these days?

Whatever happened to wanting to have a system that was stable and just worked?

Having flashy effects (and innecessarywidgets) is surely no substitute for a stable system...

[ibuclaw]

Are desktop effects the most important thing these days?

Whatever happened to wanting to have a system that was stable and just worked?

Having flashy effects (and innecessarywidgets) is surely no substitute for a stable system...

Yes and no...

You are right, stablility is an absolute priority that you must find in any system you intend to use on a daily basis, but when you switch from Debian Etch to Ubuntu Hardy and discover a whole new world of desktop experience, I find it very difficult to switch back to that simple-esqueness.

Also, although it may not have been immediately obvious in my previous post, but I was getting at the idea that KDE provided a more "subtle" experience. Compiz is great for showing off effects to your friends, but I just couldn't "work" in it on a daily routine because all settings are up way too high and there is no way to tone them down without essentially turning them off.

Regards
Iain

[Depressed Man]

Last time I tried KDE4, I couldn't get Firefox to integrate properly with it. It was irritating how Firefox wouldn't use Dolphin as the file browser. Getting Compiz to work was also irritating.

I'd be interested in giving it another spin if it was easy to fix those issues.

[JK3mp]

Last time I tried KDE4, I couldn't get Firefox to integrate properly with it. It was irritating how Firefox wouldn't use Dolphin as the file browser. Getting Compiz to work was also irritating.

I'd be interested in giving it another spin if it was easy to fix those issues.

dw...i'v used it recently...and the issue's remain..at least on mine. Recently gave KDE4 a swing after hearing all the hype. Looks really nice. But still doesn't pull the simplicity i want. Im more of an *Box kinda guy. Love to see my wallpaper through my constantly running transparent terminal programs etc kinda thing, lol

[Name change]

I started on Gnome not knowing better :D; but I soon discovered KDE and it was no turning back from there.
Even through KDE4.0 I never thought to switch to any other DE if something got broken I went back to KDE3.5 but half-way through hardy I went KDE4 only.
There are few problems with it, but it feels much better than anything else for Linux.
When I first tried Ubuntu 7.10 I was very disappointed to see that it looks the same as RH9.0.
So I only started seriosuly using Linux when I decided to switch from Gnome to KDE.

So for me KDE is the best it always was. And as it was said before it does look more "professional" not in a way that it would be used by professionals but in a way that I personally would pay for it.

But that being said it has some big problems in plasma it self. Problem is that plasmoids are all part of one process - plasma and if one crashes whole desktop crashes. But "we" are working on it - there's a brainstrom idea on KDE-forum trying to tackle this problem and there were few quite simple solutions to this problem, hope that one of thoes gets implemented, as it would really make KDE rock solid.